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thebigsmoove
04-05-2017, 11:12 AM
So it appears the AAC will be adding Wichita State as a basketball member. They have also floated the idea of adding Dayton and VCU. The conference has football only member Navy and Rowing only members San Diego State and Sacramento State. What are the chances that they might court San Diego State for all other sports, and Gonzaga, Saint Marys or BYU for basketball...any thoughts?

TexasZagFan
04-05-2017, 11:16 AM
So it appears the AAC will be adding Wichita State as a basketball member. They have also floated the idea of adding Dayton and VCU. The conference has football only member Navy and Rowing only members San Diego State and Sacramento State. What are the chances that they might court San Diego State for all other sports, and Gonzaga, Saint Marys or BYU for basketball...any thoughts?

Is Lynn Holzman available for comment? :lmao:

I saw the map, the travel would be a killer, charter planes or not.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 11:19 AM
Everyone of significance in the league has been wanting to bail the AAC. Everyone probably needs to stay put:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/wichita-state-basketball-american-athletic-conference-missouri-valley/1nz3ei5s5t9bb1mrtola7np2gi

thebigsmoove
04-05-2017, 11:20 AM
I saw the map, the travel would be a killer, charter planes or not.

I think so too, but if they split into regions and had scheduling agreements, maybe...idk. Just wondering out loud. Regions would look something like this:

West
Wichita State
SMU
Gonzaga
Saint Marys
BYU
San Diego State
Houston
Tulsa

East
UConn
UCF
East Carolina
South Florida
Cincinnati
Tulane
Temple
Memphis

willandi
04-05-2017, 11:25 AM
I think so too, but if they split into regions and had scheduling agreements, maybe...idk. Just wondering out loud. Regions would look something like this:

West
Wichita State
SMU
Gonzaga
Saint Marys
BYU
San Diego State
Houston
Tulsa

East
UConn
UCF
East Carolina
South Florida
Cincinnati
Tulane
Temple
Memphis

What do you do with ALL the other sports? Wcc won't want them.

maynard g krebs
04-05-2017, 11:25 AM
I'm a Saint Mary's fan when they're not playing the Zags. But I don't understand them being in discussions like this. They are where they are because of a brilliant coach and his Aussie pipeline. They have none of the advantages GU has in place; facility, budget, charters, and being the only game in town. Bennett leaves/retires, chances are they're Santa Clara or USF again. Or worse.

thebigsmoove
04-05-2017, 11:28 AM
What do you do with ALL the other sports? Wcc won't want them.

Big Sky maybe

thebigsmoove
04-05-2017, 11:31 AM
Look i dont think Gonzaga WILL leave the WCC, i was just thinking out loud on this possibility. Its something that inevitably will come up with Wichita leaving the MVC. I think we actually have an advantage in the WCC, its a place where our brand will continue to look great and it now holds perennial top 50 RPI members in Saint Marys and BYU who help just enough to boost our stats for the sake of seeding. Why leave? Then again, why not? There is an argument to be made for both positions.

former1dog
04-05-2017, 11:31 AM
Big Sky maybe

College athletic conferences are charities. They aren't going to let GU sports minus basketball into the Big Sky.

The WCC is the perfect conference for Gonzaga University athletics as a whole and mostly the best conference for GU basketball.

Like everyone else, I wish there was better basketball being played conference wide. There seems to be a move towards improvement in at least half the teams.

thebigsmoove
04-05-2017, 11:33 AM
One other thought is that perhaps Damon Stoudamire at Pacific and Terry Porter at Portland will help raise the profile of those schools. Kyle Smith at San Francisco could become a similar situation to Saint Marys with his Aussie contacts. Herb Sendek at Santa Clara is a potential sleeper waiting to emerge. There is plenty of potential for the WCC.

seacatfan
04-05-2017, 11:37 AM
One other thought is that perhaps Damon Stoudamire at Pacific and Terry Porter at Portland will help raise the profile of those schools. Kyle Smith at San Francisco could become a similar situation to Saint Marys with his Aussie contacts. Herb Sendek at Santa Clara is a potential sleeper waiting to emerge. There is plenty of potential for the WCC.

I think all 4 new coaches gave some reason for optimism at their schools this year.

former1dog
04-05-2017, 11:39 AM
One other thought is that perhaps Damon Stoudamire at Pacific and Terry Porter at Portland will help raise the profile of those schools. Kyle Smith at San Francisco could become a similar situation to Saint Marys with his Aussie contacts. Herb Sendek at Santa Clara is a potential sleeper waiting to emerge. There is plenty of potential for the WCC.

Agreed.

I think the on the floor results for USF and SCU were all ready better this past season. We'll have to wait and see at UoP and Pacific. Was unhappy with the style of play at LMU this past season and I hope the rough style of play they adopted won't persist into next season. SMC and BYU should be good to great again next year. I think, depending on the recruiting picture, that we could see five solid teams at the top next year rather than just 3 and maybe we'll even get 3 teams into the tourney next year.

thebigsmoove
04-05-2017, 11:43 AM
I think, depending on the recruiting picture, that we could see five solid teams at the top next year rather than just 3 and maybe we'll even get 3 teams into the tourney next year.

Wouldnt that be something. Id love to be able to say "we beat Santa Clara, San Francisco, Portland, Saint Marys, and BYU" and have people say...yeah the Zags played a pretty tough conference schedule. We will see when that happens.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 11:43 AM
This also comes back to my problems with playing in the MWC. Why should GU want to play in a league with schools in states that Gonzaga doesn't recruit from? GU gets to spend two lovely weekends in the Bay Area, one lovely weekend in LA, and a lovely day in San Diego. The schools in the WCC are easy to get to for fans and families of players. And they allow staff members to recruit on road trips and such. The 2018 class is stacked with California talent, and Gonzaga is recruiting it hard.

I'm more concerned with the school, the players, the staff, the students and the families than placating BCS snobs who will likely still pick on Gonzaga anyway.

TexasZagFan
04-05-2017, 11:48 AM
This also comes back to my problems with playing in the MWC. Why should GU want to play in a league with schools in states that Gonzaga doesn't recruit from? GU gets to spend two lovely weekends in the Bay Area, one lovely weekend in LA, and a lovely day in San Diego. The schools in the WCC are easy to get to for fans and families of players. And they allow staff members to recruit on road trips and such. The 2018 class is stacked with California talent, and Gonzaga is recruiting it hard.

BCS snobs are going to piss and moan at Gonzaga until they actually join a BCS league.

Logistically and culturally, the WCC makes the most sense for GU. I agree with the other posters that there's good chance for improvement in several more schools: USF, SCU, UOP, and Portland. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't.

gu03alum
04-05-2017, 12:14 PM
I think Gonzaga should join the ACC.

sharpzag
04-05-2017, 12:37 PM
There is a lot of discussion about adding Gonzaga on the Big East message board.

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=b13ab03e3b61f6281dffe1d0392db1ed

strikenowhere
04-05-2017, 12:37 PM
Ok fine - keep GU in the WCC. How about this instead?

Get rid of:

San Diego
San Fransisco
Portland
LMU
Pacific
Santa Clara
Pepperdine

and then invite in:

UNLV
Nevada
San Diego St.
SMU
Boise St.
Tulsa
Wyoming
New Mexico

Additionally, GU seems to be growing large enough that they could support a football team once again, so they wouldn't have to worry about being a non-football college anymore!

EEzag
04-05-2017, 12:47 PM
Ok fine - keep GU in the WCC. How about this instead?

Get rid of:

San Diego
San Fransisco
Portland
LMU
Pacific
Santa Clara
Pepperdine

and then invite in:

UNLV
Nevada
San Diego St.
SMU
Boise St.
Tulsa
Wyoming
New Mexico

Additionally, GU seems to be growing large enough that they could support a football team once again, so they wouldn't have to worry about being a non-football college anymore!


nope, although I like the reasoning. Has the WCC ever ejected a school for sucking? We may have been a candidate at one time long ago......

We need to form an alliance with the PAC12 or Big12 and do something like the BIG10 ACC challenge. Take our top 3 and play their top 3. I think people would be surprised by the results. No incentive you say for the big conf? Easy, we will play them all on their courts. Small price to pay for the boost in conference cred and ranking if we could represent 2 out of three games with wins.

sittingon50
04-05-2017, 12:47 PM
So trade L.A. & S.F. for Boise & Laramie?

Sounds good.

Zags_Fanatic
04-05-2017, 12:52 PM
I believe one of the NCAA bylaws is that any conference that takes a basketball school has to take all of the other sports as well.

Birddog
04-05-2017, 12:55 PM
So trade L.A. & S.F. for Boise & Laramie?

Sounds good.

That is a point well made although IMO Boise isn't so bad, I believe it's bigger than Spokane. Laramie, now that's different. In any case, that is not a good trade. This subject is always idle chatter. The WCC is the best fit in myriad ways, it's just that the overall basketball quality is lacking at present.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 01:07 PM
I think Gonzaga should join the ACC.

I agree, let's lift the campus off the ground and move it to Greenville, South Carolina :)

adoptedzag
04-05-2017, 01:44 PM
I agree, let's lift the campus off the ground and move it to Greenville, South Carolina :)

Used to live in Spartanburg. That's beautiful country :)

TexasZagFan
04-05-2017, 01:47 PM
Used to live in Spartanburg. That's beautiful country :)

Home of the Marshall Tucker Band...awesome!

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2017, 01:50 PM
I agree, let's lift the campus off the ground and move it to Greenville, South Carolina :)

Yes!!!!

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2017, 01:52 PM
Used to live in Spartanburg. That's beautiful country :)

I currently live in Greer. Greenville is booming and has the most beautiful downtown in America.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=-2blWMe0I4GKmQH8p4Uw&q=greenville+sc&oq=greenvi&gs_l=mobile-gws-img.1.0.0l5.2251.5118.0.6292.8.6.0.2.2.0.365.1460. 0j3j1j2.6.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-img..0.7.1468.0.9e-eWPoxmpk

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2017, 01:57 PM
There is a lot of discussion about adding Gonzaga on the Big East message board.

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=b13ab03e3b61f6281dffe1d0392db1ed

They want us to play all of our conference games at Spokane Arena. That's absurd

Assume that the Zags will play all 10 Big East games downtown at the 12k seat Veterans Arena, except that 2 or 3 Big East games would be played in Seattle each year


http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6002&sid=75fe7e0b6ae694004bf6e1da55c5c43e

SWZag
04-05-2017, 02:22 PM
I'm a fan of the WCC.

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2017, 02:30 PM
Here's a seven page thread about us. It's very fair and balanced and there some compelling arguments both ways:

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5989&sid=75419a0216c2aad63561124ced10a518

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2017, 02:30 PM
I'm a fan of the WCC.

If you compare the two conferences with the teams in each conference, how could you say that?

Markburn1
04-05-2017, 03:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlc6xCPx60U

A young Toy Caldwell. One of my all time favorites.

For TEX...and everybody else.

SWZag
04-05-2017, 04:35 PM
If you compare the two conferences with the teams in each conference, how could you say that?

No one has been able to prove, or will ever be able to prove, that the teams in the conference make a difference in post season success. Zero.

There is zero benefit, other than a few extra dollars if more teams make the tourney. Other than that, there is no benefit.

Recruiting? Tell me who you would rather have on our team that isn't on this years team that would have chosen GU if it were in a "grander" conference.
National exposure? Tell me now how much GU doesn't get national exposure because of their conference. Instead of people THE team in the league, you'll now be splitting your TV time with other "bigger-time" schools. GU can only go down from where they're at.

In my book, all arguments don't hold water on why to move to another "bigger" conference. It's all "the grass is greener on the other side" and that's it.

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-05-2017, 05:08 PM
I would advise against joining that league. In addition to the expense and inconvenience of the travel for our teams, I wouldn't be surprised if the league is no better than the WCC within a decade, because I doubt that it will survive as presently configured.

The AAC is the Conference USA of the 2,000s and I expect that league to suffer the same fate as C-USA did. You have a group of schools cobbled together from a huge geographic footprint with nothing to unite them beyond their common desire to move up to a P5 league. The league is the seventh best conference for now, but it will implode as soon as two of the four flagship universities accept other offers. Pretty much every school in that league made a pitch to join the BIG XII during last year's conference expansion beauty contest.

seacatfan
04-05-2017, 05:24 PM
Exactly! No reason to make a swim for it to get onto a sinking ship. That would be less than a great decision. Everybody wants out of the AAC. I would seriously question Dayton and whoever else was mentioned leaving a stable and solid A-10 for maybe a barely better conference that is as unstable as possible.

Zagceo
04-05-2017, 05:29 PM
I'm a fan of the WCC.

Did you play the "I'm a fan of the Big Sky Conference" card just before that jump? -D

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2017, 05:51 PM
No one has been able to prove, or will ever be able to prove, that the teams in the conference make a difference in post season success. Zero.

There is zero benefit, other than a few extra dollars if more teams make the tourney. Other than that, there is no benefit.

Recruiting? Tell me who you would rather have on our team that isn't on this years team that would have chosen GU if it were in a "grander" conference.
National exposure? Tell me now how much GU doesn't get national exposure because of their conference. Instead of people THE team in the league, you'll now be splitting your TV time with other "bigger-time" schools. GU can only go down from where they're at.

In my book, all arguments don't hold water on why to move to another "bigger" conference. It's all "the grass is greener on the other side" and that's it.

OK, so I will throw back at you: if all conferences are equal why are their conference rankings and why is the Big East ranked several spots ahead of the West Coast conference?

TexasZagFan
04-05-2017, 06:06 PM
OK, so I will throw back at you: if all conferences are equal why are their conference rankings and why is the Big East ranked several spots ahead of the West Coast conference?

IMO, part of it is East Coast bias.

There is a day of reckoning ahead for TV rights for football and basketball. Don't know when, but I think it will happen in the next 5-10 years. ESPN and other outlets overpaid big time for broadcast rights across the board. The NBA & NFL are awash in money, but cracks are beginning to appear as the airwaves are saturated.

I'm of the opinion that there will be four 16 team power conferences in football, to deliver a tournament to the TV gods. When that happens, those on the outside looking in will have decisions to make. Many of those schools will drop football, which may lead to all basketball conferences. Nonrevenue sports will be left to fend for themselves.

MBAGael
04-05-2017, 06:14 PM
OK, so I will throw back at you: if all conferences are equal why are their conference rankings and why is the Big East ranked several spots ahead of the West Coast conference?

I think what he is saying is that it's more about the team than the conference. The PAC 12 is ranked higher than the WCC, that is a fact. It's also a fact that the Zags are better than every PAC 12 team this year, kenpom and the NCAA tournament show this.

VinnyZag
04-05-2017, 06:24 PM
I think Gonzaga should join the ACC.

I was thinking NBA, but the ACC is OK, too..

seacatfan
04-05-2017, 07:34 PM
It's also a fact that the Zags are better than every PAC 12 team this year, kenpom and the NCAA tournament show this.

Oregon fans might dispute this. GU advanced 1 game further but OU had a closer losing margin against UNC. Kenpom stats don't PROVE anything, they are useful tool for comparisons but nothing more.

Alum08
04-05-2017, 07:47 PM
WCC is the perfect fit for us but there MUST be changes from the top down that incentivize winning. Simply pulling the bottom teams up above a 200 RPI would be a huge positive.

sittingon50
04-05-2017, 08:06 PM
I'm a fan of the WCC.

Me too.

But thanks for that link, sharpzag.That's as good of a thread as I've read in a long time.

LouisianaZag
04-05-2017, 08:48 PM
The word down here is that UConn is leaving to join the Big East if Football can find a spot.

GoZags
04-05-2017, 08:50 PM
Oregon fans might dispute this. GU advanced 1 game further but OU had a closer losing margin against UNC. Kenpom stats don't PROVE anything, they are useful tool for comparisons but nothing more.

I am not sure why you're referencing Oklahoma. They lost by 44 in last year's Final Four. As for this year, Gonzaga went one round further than the Zeros.

seacatfan
04-05-2017, 09:38 PM
I am not sure why you're referencing Oklahoma. They lost by 44 in last year's Final Four. As for this year, Gonzaga went one round further than the Zeros.

You knew what I meant. If the brackets were different and Oregon beat South Carolina and North Carolina beat GU in the semis, then UNC beat the Ducks in the Final, would that be conclusive proof Oregon was better than GU? No, it wouldn't. Gonzaga may very well be better than Oregon, I'm not trying to argue either way, I'm just saying Tourney results absolutely weren't conclusive proof of GU being the better of those 2 teams.

Ezag
04-05-2017, 10:00 PM
I'm a fan of the WCC.

HAHA LOL :roll:; wait, you were joking right? :O

maynard g krebs
04-05-2017, 10:18 PM
You knew what I meant. If the brackets were different and Oregon beat South Carolina and North Carolina beat GU in the semis, then UNC beat the Ducks in the Final, would that be conclusive proof Oregon was better than GU? No, it wouldn't. Gonzaga may very well be better than Oregon, I'm not trying to argue either way, I'm just saying Tourney results absolutely weren't conclusive proof of GU being the better of those 2 teams.

Once Boucher tore his acl, GU was the better team. Before that, imo it could have gone either way.