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thebigsmoove
04-04-2017, 11:43 AM
Has anyone heard of his list of schools yet? I have been feeling like we could be a good fit after he saw what we did with his high school teammate, Zach Collins. Then again, hes the type that could be headed to Arizona or UNLV and stay closer to his hometown in Vegas.

thebigsmoove
04-04-2017, 11:46 AM
Arizona blog link (http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2017/3/23/15042362/duke-transfer-chase-jeter-considering-joining-arizona-wildcats-recruiting-usc-ucla-unlv-asu-nba)

Looks like his list is the following:
Josh Gershon of Scout.com reports the sophomore is considering joining the Arizona Wildcats, USC Trojans, Gonzaga Bulldogs, UCLA Bruins, and Arizona State Sun Devils.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 11:47 AM
Has anyone heard of his list of schools yet? I have been feeling like we could be a good fit after he saw what we did with his high school teammate, Zach Collins. Then again, hes the type that could be headed to Arizona or UNLV and stay closer to his hometown in Vegas.

About a 7 hour drive from Vegas to Tucson, 1050 miles to Spokane. I'm sure he'll be recruited heavily by Pac 12 schools and GU.

seacatfan
04-04-2017, 11:49 AM
Arizona blog link (http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2017/3/23/15042362/duke-transfer-chase-jeter-considering-joining-arizona-wildcats-recruiting-usc-ucla-unlv-asu-nba)

Looks like his list is the following:

Of all of those schools, what is ASU doing on the list? Only one that didn't make the Tourney this year, and they weren't remotely close to being in the field.

ProVeeZag
04-04-2017, 11:52 AM
Arizona blog link (http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2017/3/23/15042362/duke-transfer-chase-jeter-considering-joining-arizona-wildcats-recruiting-usc-ucla-unlv-asu-nba)

Looks like his list is the following:

4 of the 5 are warm weather locales. ASU possibly on list because he'd get more playing time quicker.

thebigsmoove
04-04-2017, 11:56 AM
I feel like coming to Gonzaga would be huge for him. Getting to work out and learn from our staff and potentially come in 2018-19 and be a star. He would be putting himself in the best position to be an NBA draft pick. Thats gotta be part of his thought process by including us on his list.

thebigsmoove
04-04-2017, 11:59 AM
Apparently hes already met with UNLV as well. So im sure they are near the top of his list as well.

EEzag
04-04-2017, 12:02 PM
Apparently hes already met with UNLV as well. So im sure they are near the top of his list as well.

ASU's coach has Duke ties...might have something to do with it. Do we even know if the staff is interested?

cjm720
04-04-2017, 12:39 PM
Of all of those schools, what is ASU doing on the list? Only one that didn't make the Tourney this year, and they weren't remotely close to being in the field.

Bobby Hurley

seacatfan
04-04-2017, 12:53 PM
Bobby Hurley

So what? I don't see him building momentum there. More like he's wondering why he took that job. He had one good year at Buffalo. Not sure when he became considered a great coach.

I would think the last thing Jeter would want would be to play for one of K's proteges.

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 01:13 PM
So what? I don't see him building momentum there. More like he's wondering why he took that job. He had one good year at Buffalo. Not sure when he became considered a great coach.

I would think the last thing Jeter would want would be to play for one of K's proteges.

Didn't they have a couple of their young guys injured this year? I can't remember, but he's only been there two years so I wouldn't say he has no chance of turning things around.

seacatfan
04-04-2017, 01:45 PM
Didn't they have a couple of their young guys injured this year? I can't remember, but he's only been there two years so I wouldn't say he has no chance of turning things around.

Not sure about injuries. I know they lost Cunliffe to transfer early in his freshman year, I want to say they had at least one other fresh. transfer out. It's definitely not too late for him to turn it around, but there aren't much in the way of signs so far. ASU is just a hard place to succeed. I'm not sold on Hurley as a coach at this point. I think his younger bro has a good chance of turning out to be the more successful coach.

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 08:11 PM
Not sure about injuries. I know they lost Cunliffe to transfer early in his freshman year, I want to say they had at least one other fresh. transfer out. It's definitely not too late for him to turn it around, but there aren't much in the way of signs so far. ASU is just a hard place to succeed. I'm not sold on Hurley as a coach at this point. I think his younger bro has a good chance of turning out to be the more successful coach.
I might even be thinking of the transfer. You're probably right about the brothers. I had them as my upset team in my bracket. He's really put together a solid team that has trended up since he started there. I had them winning a couple games in my bracket and they played Oregon pretty tough.

Hoopaholic
04-05-2017, 06:18 PM
We are one of 8 he is considering

Mantua
04-05-2017, 09:13 PM
http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2017/4/5/15192310/chase-jeter-transfer-school-list-gonzaga-bulldogs

Peter Woodburn points out something I'm worried about:


Due to NCAA transfer rules, Jeter would have to sit out the 2017-18 season, and that will actually work in his benefit. Johnathan Williams III is set to graduate next season, and if Collins also leaves early (for the NBA), there is a good chance that the Gonzaga front court will be Jacob Larsen and Killian Tillie—no one else.

We need another good big in the wings and Chase Jeter has the coolest name.

seacatfan
04-05-2017, 09:42 PM
Mantua, that's assuming there are no new recruits or transfers over almost a 2 year period. I'm willing to bet there will be other bigs lined up by the time the '18-'19 season rolls around.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 11:23 PM
I am not sold on Jeter. I think Gonzaga has established a nice blueprint now of bringing in top 50 level transfers like JWIII and Nigel who were top level recruits coming out of HS but who made bad school choices out of HS. Guys who were good to great in college, but who just wanted to win more and develop under better coaches. Jeter is a kid who was just flat out not good enough to get the time he wanted in Duke's rotation. And there was plenty of PT this year due to all of their injuries. He had his chance to prove himself and failed. As Jay Bilas himself said, Zach Collins is a vastly better player and prospect than Jeter, despite the fact that ZC played behind him in HS. I also don't see him as a Kyle Wiltjer type who was already really good at UK but who wanted a more expansive role after getting his title ring.

Gonzaga is now a team that competes for national titles. The days of picking dangling fruit from blue blood and BCS trees is over. Or it should be over. Otherwise the coaches are selling themselves short.

I have a very strong feeling that a grad transfer or someone else is going to appear on the market who is another JWIII type if the Zags need one. That's the key....if they need one.

Coach Crazy
04-06-2017, 05:32 AM
I am not sold on Jeter. I think Gonzaga has established a nice blueprint now of bringing in top 50 level transfers like JWIII and Nigel who were top level recruits coming out of HS but who made bad school choices out of HS. Guys who were good to great in college, but who just wanted to win more and develop under better coaches. Jeter is a kid who was just flat out not good enough to get the time he wanted in Duke's rotation. And there was plenty of PT this year due to all of their injuries. He had his chance to prove himself and failed. As Jay Bilas himself said, Zach Collins is a vastly better player and prospect than Jeter, despite the fact that ZC played behind him in HS. I also don't see him as a Kyle Wiltjer type who was already really good at UK but who wanted a more expansive role after getting his title ring.

Gonzaga is now a team that competes for national titles. The days of picking dangling fruit from blue blood and BCS trees is over. Or it should be over. Otherwise the coaches are selling themselves short.

I have a very strong feeling that a grad transfer or someone else is going to appear on the market who is another JWIII type if the Zags need one. That's the key....if they need one.

If Jonathan Williams is your example, then I am unsure as to what you are using to make such an objective statement about Chase Jeter? You could say that he didn't play enough minutes to get a realistic sample size for his statistical output. And that's fine. But I would also counter with: "He played for Duke. Had J3 played for a bigger program than Mizzou, he might not have gotten the time, either."

And if you are talking about Chase's production at Duke as a deterrent, and sample size isn't an issue...then I am unsure where you can make a statistical argument for that? At the end of the day, you would have to use the "eye test". And I would hope that you would be willing to take into account other variables such as style, personality, and fit with the coach.

You very well could be right. But at the same time? His advanced stats say otherwise. Or at least they tell of a player than *can* have the same impact that a J3 did, this year. Gonzaga has a way with big men. Chase could very well be a 118 ORtg and high-mid 90's DRtg-type 5.

If there is a better transfer out there, though? I'd be open to the better opportunity.

TexasZag
04-06-2017, 05:51 AM
If Jonathan Williams is your example, then I am unsure as to what you are using to make such an objective statement about Chase Jeter? You could say that he didn't play enough minutes to get a realistic sample size for his statistical output. And that's fine. But I would also counter with: "He played for Duke. Had J3 played for a bigger program than Mizzou, he might not have gotten the time, either."

And if you are talking about Chase's production at Duke as a deterrent, and sample size isn't an issue...then I am unsure where you can make a statistical argument for that? At the end of the day, you would have to use the "eye test". And I would hope that you would be willing to take into account other variables such as style, personality, and fit with the coach.

You very well could be right. But at the same time? His advanced stats say otherwise. Or at least they tell of a player than *can* have the same impact that a J3 did, this year. Gonzaga has a way with big men. Chase could very well be a 118 ORtg and high-mid 90's DRtg-type 5.

If there is a better transfer out there, though? I'd be open to the better opportunity.

I believe I read that one of Duke's injury issues this year was Jeter (back injury), and that Coach K said that the injury had held Jeter back this year. So maybe it's a little short-sighted to look at his numbers this year as being somehow telling.

jazzdelmar
04-06-2017, 05:54 AM
Biggest need post NWG is a stud point guard....period.

Ekrub
04-06-2017, 06:00 AM
I am not sold on Jeter. I think Gonzaga has established a nice blueprint now of bringing in top 50 level transfers like JWIII and Nigel who were top level recruits coming out of HS but who made bad school choices out of HS. Guys who were good to great in college, but who just wanted to win more and develop under better coaches. Jeter is a kid who was just flat out not good enough to get the time he wanted in Duke's rotation. And there was plenty of PT this year due to all of their injuries. He had his chance to prove himself and failed. As Jay Bilas himself said, Zach Collins is a vastly better player and prospect than Jeter, despite the fact that ZC played behind him in HS. I also don't see him as a Kyle Wiltjer type who was already really good at UK but who wanted a more expansive role after getting his title ring.

Gonzaga is now a team that competes for national titles. The days of picking dangling fruit from blue blood and BCS trees is over. Or it should be over. Otherwise the coaches are selling themselves short.

I have a very strong feeling that a grad transfer or someone else is going to appear on the market who is another JWIII type if the Zags need one. That's the key....if they need one.

This. Don't know why people are excited about Duke players that couldn't get off the bench. We recruit at a high enough level now to where I think this is a waste of 1 year of a scholarship plus a gamble on a couple more. If he was a proven commodity (nwg, wiltjer, jw3, mclellan) then I would understand the interest. I know we have a good track record of developing talent and undoubtedly Jeter has talent - but still seems like a risk to me when there are kids out there who want to be zags and have as much potential/upside.

JPtheBeasta
04-06-2017, 06:00 AM
So what? I don't see him building momentum there. More like he's wondering why he took that job. He had one good year at Buffalo. Not sure when he became considered a great coach.

I would think the last thing Jeter would want would be to play for one of K's proteges.

Probably need to give him time to get his own players in there...

Zaga
04-06-2017, 06:00 AM
Biggest need post NWG is a stud point guard....period.

I am interested to see ZN's game!

Ekrub
04-06-2017, 06:01 AM
Biggest need post NWG is a stud point guard....period.

Yup. We will miss collins but NWG is the dude that carried us. He is the difference between Houston and S16

jazzdelmar
04-06-2017, 06:05 AM
I am interested to see ZN's game!

I don't recall ever seeing him touted as a ball handler, much less a PG

ZagMan in Philly
04-06-2017, 06:22 AM
I don't recall ever seeing him touted as a ball handler, much less a PG

Looks like Perkins and Wade have to step up. I think they can.

cjm720
04-06-2017, 06:23 AM
Biggest need post NWG is a stud point guard....period.

Without a doubt. Wade cannot step into NWG's shoes. Hoping for a grad transfer.

jazzdelmar
04-06-2017, 06:24 AM
Looks like Perkins and Wade have to step up. I think they can.

Sorry Phil, I don't......

thebigsmoove
04-06-2017, 06:25 AM
This. Don't know why people are excited about Duke players that couldn't get off the bench. We recruit at a high enough level now to where I think this is a waste of 1 year of a scholarship plus a gamble on a couple more. If he was a proven commodity (nwg, wiltjer, jw3, mclellan) then I would understand the interest. I know we have a good track record of developing talent and undoubtedly Jeter has talent - but still seems like a risk to me when there are kids out there who want to be zags and have as much potential/upside.

Im sorry, but this take is just lazy. Chase was injured all season. His freshman year he didnt get the minutes he would have gotten elsewhere. He was a top 15 recruit coming out of high school. He is the EXACT type of player that would come to Spokane and become a star. It has nothing to do with him playing at Duke.

GoZags
04-06-2017, 06:28 AM
Im sorry, but this take is just lazy. Chase was injured all season. His freshman year he didnt get the minutes he would have gotten elsewhere. He was a top 15 recruit coming out of high school. He is the EXACT type of player that would come to Spokane and become a star. It has nothing to do with him playing at Duke.

Bingo ...

He would (or will) be the ultimate Zag ....

And on a related note ... what a joy for this program to still have Travis Knight .... he "should" be as in demand as Few was a decade and a half ago.
http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/online/article_d0db7174-e379-11e6-be77-33d474b9d9bf.html

thebigsmoove
04-06-2017, 06:55 AM
And on a related note ... what a joy for this program to still have Travis Knight .... he "should" be as in demand as Few was a decade and a half ago.
http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/online/article_d0db7174-e379-11e6-be77-33d474b9d9bf.html

Travis Knight is one of the biggest pieces to our success. Coach Few needs to keep him happy at all costs!

TexasZagFan
04-06-2017, 06:56 AM
Bingo ...

He would (or will) be the ultimate Zag ....

And on a related note ... what a joy for this program to still have Travis Knight .... he "should" be as in demand as Few was a decade and a half ago.
http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/online/article_d0db7174-e379-11e6-be77-33d474b9d9bf.html

Chase needs to get himself to the cozy confines of our campus, without the big city distractions of SoCal or the Power 5 schools he's considering. He'll be able to work with Travis and the coaching staff to transform his body and soul.

I wonder how many programs have a top 15 talent on their scout team?

thebigsmoove
04-06-2017, 07:04 AM
Chase needs to get himself to the cozy confines of our campus, without the big city distractions of SoCal or the Power 5 schools he's considering. He'll be able to work with Travis and the coaching staff to transform his body and soul.

I wonder how many programs have a top 15 talent on their scout team?

BOOM.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 07:07 AM
Bingo ...

He would (or will) be the ultimate Zag ....

And on a related note ... what a joy for this program to still have Travis Knight .... he "should" be as in demand as Few was a decade and a half ago.
http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/online/article_d0db7174-e379-11e6-be77-33d474b9d9bf.html

Not sure why you two are so confident about this. He's shown absolutely nothing on the court, even pre injury to justify the hype. I think you've bought into the Bishop Gorman/Duke hype and ignored his actual performance, or lack thereof on the actual court. Read the Duke boards; great guy, good motor, no offensive skills whatsoever and average rebounder for his size. Like I've said before, if he turns into a 7/7 bench depth big for us, I'd be pleasantly surprised. I just think you're setting yourself up to be let down with your expectations.

GoZags
04-06-2017, 07:15 AM
Not sure why you two are so confident about this. He's shown absolutely nothing on the court, even pre injury to justify the hype. I think you've bought into the Bishop Gorman/Duke hype and ignored his actual performance, or lack thereof on the actual court. Read the Duke boards; great guy, good motor, no offensive skills whatsoever and average rebounder for his size. Like I've said before, if he turns into a 7/7 bench depth big for us, I'd be pleasantly surprised. I just think you're setting yourself up to be let down with your expectations.

There's a pretty big difference (i.e. huge difference) between talking to somebody who "knows" and reading "the Duke boards" to help form an opinion. As for me .... I'll go with what I'm hearing vs what some guy on a message board says.

If it ends up that the staff (who, btw do not rely on Duke's message boards ... or any message boards) determine he's worth it ... and they offer ... and he accepts, then I'm all in. Travis can do his thing (with an outstanding starting point).

That may seem like a topside of 7/7 to some .... but IF he comes to GU, I WILL be optimistic about his future, despite your warning in the quoted post.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 07:16 AM
Im sorry, but this take is just lazy. Chase was injured all season. His freshman year he didnt get the minutes he would have gotten elsewhere. He was a top 15 recruit coming out of high school. He is the EXACT type of player that would come to Spokane and become a star. It has nothing to do with him playing at Duke.

you're setting yourself up to be let down with your unrealistic expectations.

Ekrub
04-06-2017, 07:17 AM
Im sorry, but this take is just lazy. Chase was injured all season. His freshman year he didnt get the minutes he would have gotten elsewhere. He was a top 15 recruit coming out of high school. He is the EXACT type of player that would come to Spokane and become a star. It has nothing to do with him playing at Duke.

Read again - never said he wasn't talented. But we are wasting a redshirt schOllie year and taking a chance. Not saying he can't become a star but you also can't guarantee he will become a star either. We just made the NC game, have studs who want 4 years here. Personal opinion is there are other guys who provide lower risk with just as high of an upside.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 07:18 AM
There's a pretty big difference (i.e. huge difference) between talking to somebody who "knows" and reading "the Duke boards" to help form an opinion. As for me .... I'll go with what I'm hearing vs what some guy on a message board says.

If it ends up that the staff (who, btw do not rely on Duke's message boards ... or any message boards) determine he's worth it ... and they offer ... and he accepts, then I'm all in. Travis can do his thing (with an outstanding starting point).

That may seem like a topside of 7/7 to some .... but IF he comes to GU, I WILL be optimistic about his future, despite your warning in the quoted post.

Don't get me wrong, I'll cheer for him if he's a Zag, but I will have very tempered expectations due to his actual performance on the court. And don't knock the fans on a message board, they're the ones that pour their heart and soul into their beloved program and the players that play for it. They will usually give the most unvarnished opinion of a player, good and bad.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 07:21 AM
Read again - never said he wasn't talented. But we are wasting a redshirt schOllie year and taking a chance. Not saying he can't become a star but you also can't guarantee he will become a star either. We just made the NC game, have studs who want 4 years here. Personal opinion is there are other guys who provide lower risk with just as high of an upside.

yeah, this "star" meme about Jeter is bordering on absurd. For a guy that has averaged 2.2 ppg for his collegiate career and that was even pre back injury, they're really setting themselves up for a letdown. We were bombarded ad naseum during the tournament that ZC played behind Jeter and Zimmerman in high school and every single announcer also said that he was superior to both. We've had several transfers from high major P5 programs that put up very good stats at their previous school and averaged less when they came here, but we're to believe that a guy that is extremely raw offensively and averaged 2.2 ppg is all of a sudden gonna be a "star" here? Folks need to slow their roll on Jeter, it's actually unfair to him.

GoZags
04-06-2017, 07:24 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'll cheer for him if he's a Zag, but I will have very tempered expectations due to his actual performance on the court. And don't knock the fans on a message board, they're the ones that pour their heart and soul into their beloved program and the players that play for it. They will usually give the most unvarnished opinion of a player, good and bad.

I wonder what Duke's message board experts would have posted about Kelly Olynyk after his freshman/sophomore years?

As I stated, my faith is on what the staff (and the kid) decide. If both decide that Gonzaga is the right place .... then I'm all in (as we all will be ... or should be).

Zagger
04-06-2017, 07:31 AM
Without a doubt. Wade cannot step into NWG's shoes. Hoping for a grad transfer.

Actually, I think we'll be fine with the likes of Perkins, Wade, Melson, Norvell and Alberts. Players do improve in a Zag uni. I feel at some point transfers into a program may come up against acceptance issues. When a recruited player may make a decision on GU based on who they'll be playing with, only to have that roster change considerably .... it may not bode well for a team's cohesion. I may be overthinking this end of things as GU sure did quite well this season with a hefty dose of transfers. That may not always end up being the case though (at least at other schools). Few sure seems to be up to the task of coaching good teamwork out of a team. The GU coaches are also pretty darn good at recruiting players that 'fit' the program. If GU can play some spiffy basketball with who they have at any given time I'll be one happy camper. No one team is going to get all the best players. GU is pretty good at getting the best out of who they have.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 07:31 AM
I wonder what Duke's message board experts would have posted about Kelly Olynyk after his freshman/sophomore years?

As I stated, my faith is on what the staff (and the kid) decide. If both decide that Gonzaga is the right place .... then I'm all in (as we all will be ... or should be).

A. Kelly actually always showed an offensive game, he was just growing into his body and a new position. Regarding the bolded, agree 100%, we should all welcome him with open arms if he chooses to be a Zag, I just don't think it's fair to him to expect him to become a "star".

Coach Crazy
04-06-2017, 07:39 AM
Without a doubt. Wade cannot step into NWG's shoes. Hoping for a grad transfer.

It's not even really about experience, either. Not the same type of guard. Even Senior-version of Wade wouldn't be Nigel, if his profile as a player stays the same.

TexasZagFan
04-06-2017, 07:47 AM
There's a pretty big difference (i.e. huge difference) between talking to somebody who "knows" and reading "the Duke boards" to help form an opinion. As for me .... I'll go with what I'm hearing vs what some guy on a message board says.

If it ends up that the staff (who, btw do not rely on Duke's message boards ... or any message boards) determine he's worth it ... and they offer ... and he accepts, then I'm all in. Travis can do his thing (with an outstanding starting point).

That may seem like a topside of 7/7 to some .... but IF he comes to GU, I WILL be optimistic about his future, despite your warning in the quoted post.

Instead of reading the Duke boards, may I recommend reading the thread I posted yesterday on "Dukies". There are dozens of us in the Zag community that never played a minute of D-1 hoops...in fact, I never got past JV in HS in basketball or baseball. O/T, but that was a personal choice, as I realized I would letter only as a senior, and I transitioned into bowling. That worked out ok for me, with a couple of California state titles in doubles, and a city title in singles (El Paso). Although I never went pro, I bowled in the best scratch leagues where I lived. During my last five years in El Paso, I averaged over 205 a game...never had a 300 game or 800 series, I was just consistent, such as not having a game below 180 during a 90 game season. Best game was 289, best series was in the 770's, with no game above 260.

When it comes to basketball, I think I've picked up enough knowledge from watching thousands of games over the past 50+ years. At GU, I learned a lot from just talking to players like Reed Schifferman and Kenny Tyler, same for baseball from living across the hall from Lenn Sakata my sophomore year. I may not know the intricacies and really fine points of D-1 hoops, but I'll put my general opinions up against anyone...that's what going to Gonzaga brought out in me. If I can hold my own with philosophy and theology majors in a senior level philosophy class, then my views on a game that I've watched for 50 years are valid, however wrong they may be at times.

Rant off.

Bogozags
04-06-2017, 08:19 AM
I am not sold on Jeter. I think Gonzaga has established a nice blueprint now of bringing in top 50 level transfers like JWIII and Nigel who were top level recruits coming out of HS but who made bad school choices out of HS. Guys who were good to great in college, but who just wanted to win more and develop under better coaches. Jeter is a kid who was just flat out not good enough to get the time he wanted in Duke's rotation. And there was plenty of PT this year due to all of their injuries. He had his chance to prove himself and failed. As Jay Bilas himself said, Zach Collins is a vastly better player and prospect than Jeter, despite the fact that ZC played behind him in HS. I also don't see him as a Kyle Wiltjer type who was already really good at UK but who wanted a more expansive role after getting his title ring.

Gonzaga is now a team that competes for national titles. The days of picking dangling fruit from blue blood and BCS trees is over. Or it should be over. Otherwise the coaches are selling themselves short.

I have a very strong feeling that a grad transfer or someone else is going to appear on the market who is another JWIII type if the Zags need one. That's the key....if they need one.



Jeter was a pretty good center in high school...he had pretty decent footwork and hands. He is a known element and if he has a work ethic then he can learn...I remember watching Rob as a freshman and he was as raw as one could be but he worked hard to become a better player and was drafted (60th) and played for three years in the NBA and made him financially secure for the rest of his life.

I am not sure I can agree with your comment that Gonzaga is NOW a team that competes for national titles, alluding to the fact that top recruits will be more inclined to come to GU. I have never thought that playing in or wining the FF would make GU the promised land for top recruits. If Zach Collins departs for the NBA this summer, then some recruits might see how much he has improved from the McD's game to the championship game to become a lottery pick. I think it is wishful thinking on my part as well as others to think that we will be the recipient of "one and done's" now that GU has made the FF. It didn't work that way for GMU, VCU, Butler or Villanova and they are all located in much more populated areas. I still believe that kids are attracted to the "glitter" of the top Power Five schools (excluding UDub), which is why AZ, KU, UK and Duke capture most of the Five Star recruits each year as they get to play against the stiffest competition in the tough Five Star conferences.

It is too early to tell what "dangling fruit" may ball into GU's hands these next few months BUT we currently do not have any scholarships available for the 2017 season, except for those graduating seniors (2) and I sure hope that both ZC and NWG remain another year...I would think that GU has to be looking for two front court and back court players for the 2018-19 season to replace JWIII, Melson, Alberts and Edwards...

thebigsmoove
04-06-2017, 08:25 AM
...averaged 2.2 ppg...

2.2 ppg is the stat metric you keep mentioning...Do you have any idea who Chase played behind at Duke?

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 08:34 AM
2.2 ppg is the stat metric you keep mentioning...Do you have any idea who Chase played behind at Duke?

He's a "star" according to you. Shouldn't a star beat out players in front of him?

thebigsmoove
04-06-2017, 08:36 AM
He's a "star" according to you. Shouldn't a star beat out players in front of him?

I said hes the type of player who would become a star. Jeez man, who pissed in your wheaties this morning?

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 08:39 AM
I said hes the type of player who would become a star. Jeez man, who pissed in your wheaties this morning?

No one, but you trash Rui, our own player and gush over Jeter simply because he had the word Duke on his jersey.

thebigsmoove
04-06-2017, 08:50 AM
No one, but you trash Rui, our own player and gush over Jeter simply because he had the word Duke on his jersey.

I did no such thing, reread my comment. I simply tempered my expectations on Rui based on my observations. I think all the NBA talk is a little premature. Look, was my use of the moniker "star" hyperbole? Yeah a little bit. But the reality is that Duke has 4-5 McDo AA bigs on their roster every year. Chase not cracking the rotation as a freshman says more about Dukes depth than it does about his talent. He wouldnt have to sit behind several suprememly talented AAs at Gonzaga. He could redshirt work with Travis on his strength and low post moves and then blossom. Rui could do the same. I would like both players to succeed at GU.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 09:00 AM
I did no such thing, reread my comment. I simply tempered my expectations on Rui based on my observations. I think all the NBA talk is a little premature. Look, was my use of the moniker "star" hyperbole? Yeah a little bit. But the reality is that Duke has 4-5 McDo AA bigs on their roster every year. Chase not cracking the rotation as a freshman says more about Dukes depth than it does about his talent. He wouldnt have to sit behind several suprememly talented AAs at Gonzaga. He could redshirt work with Travis on his strength and low post moves and then blossom. Rui could do the same. I would like both players to succeed at GU.

On that we can agree

CDC84
04-06-2017, 09:03 AM
I wonder what Duke's message board experts would have posted about Kelly Olynyk after his freshman/sophomore years?

As I stated, my faith is on what the staff (and the kid) decide. If both decide that Gonzaga is the right place .... then I'm all in (as we all will be ... or should be).

This. I may have my personal opinion on Jeter at the moment, but in the end, the staff knows a hell of a lot more about this stuff than I do....and especially how he would fit (or might not fit) at Gonzaga. I am just very hesitant to bring in disgruntled transfers when GU has the amount of clout that they do now. Especially when scholarships are so limited.

TexasZagFan
04-06-2017, 09:18 AM
This. I may have my personal opinion on Jeter at the moment, but in the end, the staff knows a hell of a lot more about this stuff than I do....and especially how he would fit (or might not fit) at Gonzaga. I am just very hesitant to bring in disgruntled transfers when GU has the amount of clout that they do now. Especially when scholarships are so limited.

I didn't get the impression that Chase was "disgruntled", more like he wanted to get closer to home. Spokane's half the distance to Vegas as Duke, at least it's in the same time zone. You may be right, though.

sittingon50
04-06-2017, 09:22 AM
Backing up a bit, part of the reason transfers have worked so well in the recent past (IMO) is the presence of an Alpha.

Should NWG leave, does this team have an Alpha? Melson & JIII will be Srs. but both seem to be the quiet type. Perkins also has the time in the program but I personally don't see him in that role.

Thoughts?

TexasZagFan
04-06-2017, 09:33 AM
Backing up a bit, part of the reason transfers have worked so well in the recent past (IMO) is the presence of an Alpha.

Should NWG leave, does this team have an Alpha? Melson & JIII will be Srs. but both seem to be the quiet type. Perkins also has the time in the program but I personally don't see him in that role.

Thoughts?

J3?

CDC84
04-06-2017, 09:37 AM
I didn't get the impression that Chase was "disgruntled", more like he wanted to get closer to home. Spokane's half the distance to Vegas as Duke, at least it's in the same time zone. You may be right, though.

I am just hesitant to take on a guy that Jay Bilas refers to as not being nearly as good as Zach Collins. I have concerns. I like the idea of the NWG type transfer where the guy is a totally known commodity.

WallaWallaZag
04-06-2017, 09:38 AM
I am just hesitant to take on a guy that Jay Bilas refers to as not being nearly as good as Zach Collins. I have concerns. I like the idea of the NWG type transfer where the guy is a totally known commodity.

chase jeter or noah dickerson...who do you take?

CDC84
04-06-2017, 09:40 AM
Probably Jeter.

I would recruit my tail off for 2018 and 2019 kids that are in the McDonald's AA range. GU is coming off the national championship game. GU needs to strike while the iron is hot.

seacatfan
04-06-2017, 09:47 AM
Duke generally does a TERRIBLE job of developing bigs. They've had a few stars over the years, but the majority of them have floundered there. They had 2 McD's AA doing close to nothing this season--Jeter and Bolden, and 2 other highly touted freshmen in Giles and DeLaurier. That's A LOT of big bodies who collectively barely produced. Jefferson was the only big that did anything there this year. I can't for the life of me figure out why any big would choose Duke. But I would take Jeter's lack of production w/ a very big grain of salt...unless you think that Bolden, Giles and DeLaurier are all also lacking in talent. That would be unbelievable if the scouts were so wrong on so many players that all happened to go to the same school. Easier to accept that Duke is doing something wrong w/ player development.

CDC84
04-06-2017, 09:48 AM
The system they run certainly isn't the best for back to the basket bigs. That's a good point.

WallaWallaZag
04-06-2017, 09:51 AM
Probably Jeter.

I would recruit my tail off for 2018 and 2019 kids that are in the McDonald's AA range. GU is coming off the national championship game. GU needs to strike while the iron is hot.

but at least dickerson has put up some numbers...was pretty impressive towards the end of this past season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3907489/noah-dickerson

back to back finals didn't seem to move the needle much for butler...

WallaWallaZag
04-06-2017, 09:53 AM
The system they run certainly isn't the best for back to the basket bigs. That's a good point.


maybe in general...but okafor thrived there and he was a pure back to basket guy...

Coach Crazy
04-06-2017, 09:58 AM
Duke generally does a TERRIBLE job of developing bigs. They've had a few stars over the years, but the majority of them have floundered there. They had 2 McD's AA doing close to nothing this season--Jeter and Bolden, and 2 other highly touted freshmen in Giles and DeLaurier. That's A LOT of big bodies who collectively barely produced. Jefferson was the only big that did anything there this year. I can't for the life of me figure out why any big would choose Duke. But I would take Jeter's lack of production w/ a very big grain of salt...unless you think that Bolden, Giles and DeLaurier are all also lacking in talent. That would be unbelievable if the scouts were so wrong on so many players that all happened to go to the same school. Easier to accept that Duke is doing something wrong w/ player development.

This. Good post.

Coach Crazy
04-06-2017, 09:59 AM
chase jeter or noah dickerson...who do you take?

Honestly, it depends on what we'll need, and how you see Dickerson fitting in. I would love to have both, but we don't have enough open room.

sittingon50
04-06-2017, 10:04 AM
J3?

Johnathan Williams the Third.

WallaWallaZag
04-06-2017, 10:08 AM
Honestly, it depends on what we'll need, and how you see Dickerson fitting in. I would love to have both, but we don't have enough open room.

well, based on assumed status quo...only going to have tillie and larsen in '18...throw in hachimura if you want. heck, if tillie blows up next year he could be gone.

seacatfan
04-06-2017, 10:10 AM
back to back finals didn't seem to move the needle much for butler...

Nor did a Final 4 appearance do anything for George Mason and not a whole lot for VCU. GU has already kicked their recruiting up several notches, but this run to the Championship game isn't going to guarantee getting several McD's AA on a yearly basis.

seacatfan
04-06-2017, 10:16 AM
maybe in general...but okafor thrived there and he was a pure back to basket guy...

That's why I said there were exceptions. Brand did well there. Boozer was pretty good. Laettner was a different era, not even sure how relevant that is. Even a guy like Shelden Williams, he was successful but they almost never ran their offense thru him. It was all about getting shots for J J. Williams had to get his off of put backs and running in transition. The Plumlees were decent but took a while to develop.

You can go back a bunch of years and look at former McD's AA big men that fairly much wasted their careers at Duke.

BobZag
04-06-2017, 10:24 AM
I am not sold on Jeter. I think Gonzaga has established a nice blueprint now of bringing in top 50 level transfers like JWIII and Nigel who were top level recruits coming out of HS but who made bad school choices out of HS. Guys who were good to great in college, but who just wanted to win more and develop under better coaches. Jeter is a kid who was just flat out not good enough to get the time he wanted in Duke's rotation. And there was plenty of PT this year due to all of their injuries. He had his chance to prove himself and failed. As Jay Bilas himself said, Zach Collins is a vastly better player and prospect than Jeter, despite the fact that ZC played behind him in HS. I also don't see him as a Kyle Wiltjer type who was already really good at UK but who wanted a more expansive role after getting his title ring.

Gonzaga is now a team that competes for national titles. The days of picking dangling fruit from blue blood and BCS trees is over. Or it should be over. Otherwise the coaches are selling themselves short.

I have a very strong feeling that a grad transfer or someone else is going to appear on the market who is another JWIII type if the Zags need one. That's the key....if they need one.

I like Noah Dickerson.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 10:50 AM
chase jeter or noah dickerson...who do you take?

talent wise, Dickerson and it's not close, Duke is pursuing him hard.

maynard g krebs
04-06-2017, 12:12 PM
chase jeter or noah dickerson...who do you take?

Like most of the Huskies last year, Dickerson didn't seem interested in defending. Think he's staying anyway.

TheOtherGreatOne
04-06-2017, 01:26 PM
I would rather have Collins and Williams-Goss back and to heck with the transfers.

Markburn1
04-06-2017, 01:44 PM
I would rather have Collins and Williams-Goss back and to heck with the transfers.

Yeah!!! And I'm looking forward to my private island in the Caribbean just as soon as my lottery winnings arrive in the mail. HEEHEE.

cggonzaga
04-06-2017, 01:49 PM
Like most of the Huskies last year, Dickerson didn't seem interested in defending. Think he's staying anyway.

Thought he already said he was leaving? If so, I would take Dickerson in a heartbeat. He's huge and skilled offensively.

ZagMan in Philly
04-06-2017, 03:12 PM
Chase Jeter or Carlton Bragg??

basketballzag
04-06-2017, 03:20 PM
No thank you on Carlton Bragg. He couldn't keep his name out of the newspapers in Lawrence.

gonzagafan62
04-06-2017, 03:24 PM
No thank you on Carlton Bragg. He couldn't keep his name out of the newspapers in Lawrence.

Mark Few and staff now has a history of turning around players. This shouldn't be an issue, unless GU says no. I trust few and the staffs judgement. He knows what a Zag is.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 03:51 PM
Chase Jeter or Carlton Bragg??

Wait, you guys didn't want the brothers from Memphis that put up 20 points a game but you want Carlton Bragg? He's way worse of a character than they are.

ZagMan in Philly
04-06-2017, 04:37 PM
Wait, you guys didn't want the brothers from Memphis that put up 20 points a game but you want Carlton Bragg? He's way worse of a character than they are.

What gonzagafan62 said.
He needs to be at the right place and with coaches that care about him on and off the court.
His talent is off the chart.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 04:54 PM
What gonzagafan62 said.
He needs to be at the right place and with coaches that care about him on and off the court.
His talent is off the chart.

Is he more talented than these guys:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19084406/brothers-dedric-kj-lawson-transfer-memphis-tigers

Apparently they have a helicopter dad but at least they don't have drug and criminal charges like Bragg.

MDABE80
04-06-2017, 07:38 PM
Few and Floyd are in no hurry. They're find us a great big. I do think Nigel will save the day again👍

zagsfanforlife
04-06-2017, 08:20 PM
Few and Floyd are in no hurry. They're find us a great big. I do think Nigel will save the day again👍

Hate to burst your bubble, but he isnt returning. No worries. They will find us a good replacement as they always do.

MDABE80
04-06-2017, 08:38 PM
I would rather have Collins and Williams-Goss back and to heck with the transfers.


Most likely option to be had.

MDABE80
04-06-2017, 08:39 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but he isnt returning. No worries. They will find us a good replacement as they always do.

How do you know?

DixieZag
04-07-2017, 06:31 AM
I am just hesitant to take on a guy that Jay Bilas refers to as not being nearly as good as Zach Collins. I have concerns. I like the idea of the NWG type transfer where the guy is a totally known commodity.

That makes sense.

OTOH - was Bilas saying that as they came out of HS, or was he saying that as they were playing this year?

I have no thoughts on Jeter at all. Wouldn't recognize him walking down the street. But, it seems if the guy was playing hurt, playing behind guys and maybe not getting the personal development, it sure seems like the perfect candidate for the Olynick clinic - get him fully healthy, work on fundamentals, strong in the better way.

Of course, I understand that much more goes into the process, fitting in might be the singular most important. People point to JWIII - not exactly a "name" outside the SEC, but such a quality young man, coached-up, a star.

basketballzag
04-07-2017, 06:54 AM
I think Nigel is learning what it means to get massive media attention right now and how that actually translates into dollars later. He is a smart kid with intelligent parents who also understand the impact of national media exposure for another year at the collegiate level and how that translates into getting drafted in the NBA in 2018 and sticking on a roster because that media exposure means more tickets are purchased to see him play in the league. He actually will have a higher name recognition falling the Wiltjer path than dropping out and leaving now. Its not just a contract with the league but its also the ancillary sponsorship deals that he has to think about. Another year in Spokane to continue bolstering his national name or leave now and risk obscurity. The smart play for him is another year but he does need to test the NBA draft out and have his weaknesses evaluated to help him next year. NWG will be on a roster next year in the league as he will be NBA ready so you can insert him in as a role player without missing a beat. His age in this case will actually be a positive not a negative.

Collins is in the same boat--make 1 million now or 4 million next year. He will be a project for any team that takes him and would be what I call a domestic draft & stash player because he is still very raw. He can't handle any athletic double team which causes him to be foul and TO prone. He often makes mistakes on this end by rushing things when he doesn't have too when he plays more athletic/faster players or is doubled teamed by faster players. He needs a year to build up his body strength to be able to compete at the NBA level. We saw in the USC, Xavier, NC, St. Mary's, and some other games that when he is up against a faster more athletic player he has problems because he can't keep up with their quickness due to his lack of strength right now. He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player. Another weakness that he needs to improve upon is his passing/assist skills (i.e. 16 assists all season) is relatively lackluster while Karno had 75 (did play more mins) and Tillie had 21 (almost 1/2 the mins of Collins) and this comes with playing another year at Gonzaga so he can learn the game better. Otherwise jumping now I see another Austin Daye scenario developing because he didn't learn the skills that have put lesser gifted Gonzaga player into the league. Ask Austin if he made a mistake coming out too early--he will tell you Yes. I'll add that learning & refining your game under Mark Few, Dony Daniels, Tommy Lloyd, etc for at least two seasons actually scores points on the criteria that we evaluate when looking at a player. I'm only addressing ZC weaknesses not his strengths as those are readily known.

Coach Crazy
04-07-2017, 06:57 AM
Mark Few and staff now has a history of turning around players. This shouldn't be an issue, unless GU says no. I trust few and the staffs judgement. He knows what a Zag is.

This. Bragg's talent, physical makeup, and ability to produce are ridiculous. If he does indeed want a fresh start, and we are the lucky enough to get a shot at him...you take him. Goodness gracious.

EEzag
04-07-2017, 07:06 AM
This. Bragg's talent, physical makeup, and ability to produce are ridiculous. If he does indeed want a fresh start, and we are the lucky enough to get a shot at him...you take him. Goodness gracious.

The only thing that might keep Collins and Goss is the amount of talent in this years draft. Collins is a fringe lottery. He has the measurables but hasn't shown he can score against NBA talent. Goss is a fringe 2nd rounder. Good enough to make a team or make some bank in Euro. Maybe he gets to the 1st round next year by virtue of not as many guards in next years draft. Maybe his ankle is a concern and he wants to go now.

Thing about Jeter is, we are deep with or without. If he doesn't pan out he could transfer again or play an Edwards role. Elite bigs don't fall out of trees. Take a shot.

GoZags
04-07-2017, 07:11 AM
Excellent post from the best "connected" poster on GUBoards ... or, if not THE best then certainly top 3.


I think Nigel is learning what it means to get massive media attention right now and how that actually translates into dollars later. He is a smart kid with intelligent parents who also understand the impact of national media exposure for another year at the collegiate level and how that translates into getting drafted in the NBA in 2018 and sticking on a roster because that media exposure means more tickets are purchased to see him play in the league. He actually will have a higher name recognition falling the Wiltjer path than dropping out and leaving now. Its not just a contract with the league but its also the ancillary sponsorship deals that he has to think about. Another year in Spokane to continue bolstering his national name or leave now and risk obscurity. The smart play for him is another year but he does need to test the NBA draft out and have his weaknesses evaluated to help him next year. NWG will be on a roster next year in the league as he will be NBA ready so you can insert him in as a role player without missing a beat. His age in this case will actually be a positive not a negative.

Collins is in the same boat--make 1 million now or 4 million next year. He will be a project for any team that takes him and would be what I call a domestic draft & stash player because he is still very raw. He can't handle any athletic double team which causes him to be foul and TO prone. He often makes mistakes on this end by rushing things when he doesn't have too when he plays more athletic/faster players or is doubled teamed by faster players. He needs a year to build up his body strength to be able to compete at the NBA level. We saw in the USC, Xavier, NC, St. Mary's, and some other games that when he is up against a faster more athletic player he has problems because he can't keep up with their quickness due to his lack of strength right now. He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player. Another weakness that he needs to improve upon is his passing/assist skills (i.e. 16 assists all season) is relatively lackluster while Karno had 75 (did play more mins) and Tillie had 21 (almost 1/2 the mins of Collins) and this comes with playing another year at Gonzaga so he can learn the game better. Otherwise jumping now I see another Austin Daye scenario developing because he didn't learn the skills that have put lesser gifted Gonzaga player into the league. Ask Austin if he made a mistake coming out too early--he will tell you Yes. I'll add that learning & refining your game under Mark Few, Dony Daniels, Tommy Lloyd, etc for at least two seasons actually scores points on the criteria that we evaluate when looking at a player. I'm only addressing ZC weaknesses not his strengths as those are readily known.

DixieZag
04-07-2017, 07:31 AM
I think Nigel is learning what it means to get massive media attention right now and how that actually translates into dollars later. He is a smart kid with intelligent parents who also understand the impact of national media exposure for another year at the collegiate level and how that translates into getting drafted in the NBA in 2018 and sticking on a roster because that media exposure means more tickets are purchased to see him play in the league. He actually will have a higher name recognition falling the Wiltjer path than dropping out and leaving now. Its not just a contract with the league but its also the ancillary sponsorship deals that he has to think about. Another year in Spokane to continue bolstering his national name or leave now and risk obscurity. The smart play for him is another year but he does need to test the NBA draft out and have his weaknesses evaluated to help him next year. NWG will be on a roster next year in the league as he will be NBA ready so you can insert him in as a role player without missing a beat. His age in this case will actually be a positive not a negative.

Collins is in the same boat--make 1 million now or 4 million next year. He will be a project for any team that takes him and would be what I call a domestic draft & stash player because he is still very raw. He can't handle any athletic double team which causes him to be foul and TO prone. He often makes mistakes on this end by rushing things when he doesn't have too when he plays more athletic/faster players or is doubled teamed by faster players. He needs a year to build up his body strength to be able to compete at the NBA level. We saw in the USC, Xavier, NC, St. Mary's, and some other games that when he is up against a faster more athletic player he has problems because he can't keep up with their quickness due to his lack of strength right now. He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player. Another weakness that he needs to improve upon is his passing/assist skills (i.e. 16 assists all season) is relatively lackluster while Karno had 75 (did play more mins) and Tillie had 21 (almost 1/2 the mins of Collins) and this comes with playing another year at Gonzaga so he can learn the game better. Otherwise jumping now I see another Austin Daye scenario developing because he didn't learn the skills that have put lesser gifted Gonzaga player into the league. Ask Austin if he made a mistake coming out too early--he will tell you Yes. I'll add that learning & refining your game under Mark Few, Dony Daniels, Tommy Lloyd, etc for at least two seasons actually scores points on the criteria that we evaluate when looking at a player. I'm only addressing ZC weaknesses not his strengths as those are readily known.

I have no idea if you're right, but you sure have a way of sounding right, and seem to be in the "right" places to know.

Coach Crazy
04-07-2017, 07:36 AM
I think Nigel is learning what it means to get massive media attention right now and how that actually translates into dollars later. He is a smart kid with intelligent parents who also understand the impact of national media exposure for another year at the collegiate level and how that translates into getting drafted in the NBA in 2018 and sticking on a roster because that media exposure means more tickets are purchased to see him play in the league. He actually will have a higher name recognition falling the Wiltjer path than dropping out and leaving now. Its not just a contract with the league but its also the ancillary sponsorship deals that he has to think about. Another year in Spokane to continue bolstering his national name or leave now and risk obscurity. The smart play for him is another year but he does need to test the NBA draft out and have his weaknesses evaluated to help him next year. NWG will be on a roster next year in the league as he will be NBA ready so you can insert him in as a role player without missing a beat. His age in this case will actually be a positive not a negative.

Collins is in the same boat--make 1 million now or 4 million next year. He will be a project for any team that takes him and would be what I call a domestic draft & stash player because he is still very raw. He can't handle any athletic double team which causes him to be foul and TO prone. He often makes mistakes on this end by rushing things when he doesn't have too when he plays more athletic/faster players or is doubled teamed by faster players. He needs a year to build up his body strength to be able to compete at the NBA level. We saw in the USC, Xavier, NC, St. Mary's, and some other games that when he is up against a faster more athletic player he has problems because he can't keep up with their quickness due to his lack of strength right now. He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player. Another weakness that he needs to improve upon is his passing/assist skills (i.e. 16 assists all season) is relatively lackluster while Karno had 75 (did play more mins) and Tillie had 21 (almost 1/2 the mins of Collins) and this comes with playing another year at Gonzaga so he can learn the game better. Otherwise jumping now I see another Austin Daye scenario developing because he didn't learn the skills that have put lesser gifted Gonzaga player into the league. Ask Austin if he made a mistake coming out too early--he will tell you Yes. I'll add that learning & refining your game under Mark Few, Dony Daniels, Tommy Lloyd, etc for at least two seasons actually scores points on the criteria that we evaluate when looking at a player. I'm only addressing ZC weaknesses not his strengths as those are readily known.

Unless your analysis includes Synergy and other advanced stats, then there isn't enough context. His lack of strength can be fixed just as readily at the next level. In fact, everything you see as being a weakness can be addressed at the next level. Also, no scout is going to pass on a big they feel is otherwise lottery-worthy because he can't shoot free throw as well as he'd hope. The assists concern is overblown. Lauri Markkanen is posting 1.7 assists per 100 possessions, and an AST% of 5.6, where as Zach Collins is at 1.3 and 4.4. Not a huge discrepancy.

Zach is actually one of the-if not the best-defenders in the draft. There are NBA veterans that don't have the understanding and technique of shot blocking that he does. He's got a shot at the Top 10.

TexasZagFan
04-07-2017, 08:00 AM
Unless your analysis includes Synergy and other advanced stats, then there isn't enough context. His lack of strength can be fixed just as readily at the next level. In fact, everything you see as being a weakness can be addressed at the next level. Also, no scout is going to pass on a big they feel is otherwise lottery-worthy because he can't shoot free throw as well as he'd hope. The assists concern is overblown. Lauri Markkanen is posting 1.7 assists per 100 possessions, and an AST% of 5.6, where as Zach Collins is at 1.3 and 4.4. Not a huge discrepancy.

Zach is actually one of the-if not the best-defenders in the draft. There are NBA veterans that don't have the understanding and technique of shot blocking that he does. He's got a shot at the Top 10.

Don't know when the Mavericks pick yet, but if Zach's available, he'd be a needed addition. They just traded for Nerlens Noel, who has an injury history. Seems like the only one NOT with an injury history is Dirk, and age has crept up to him.

Mavericks will be mediocre for years to come, now that Dirk is a year away from retirement. When the history books are written, they will be very kind to the Big German, as he was not surrounded by Top-50 players in their prime years.

Perhaps they will improve when Cuban devotes his time to running for President in 2020.

Chicken Ball
04-07-2017, 08:07 AM
I think Nigel is learning what it means to get massive media attention right now and how that actually translates into dollars later. He is a smart kid with intelligent parents who also understand the impact of national media exposure for another year at the collegiate level and how that translates into getting drafted in the NBA in 2018 and sticking on a roster because that media exposure means more tickets are purchased to see him play in the league. He actually will have a higher name recognition falling the Wiltjer path than dropping out and leaving now. Its not just a contract with the league but its also the ancillary sponsorship deals that he has to think about. Another year in Spokane to continue bolstering his national name or leave now and risk obscurity. The smart play for him is another year but he does need to test the NBA draft out and have his weaknesses evaluated to help him next year. NWG will be on a roster next year in the league as he will be NBA ready so you can insert him in as a role player without missing a beat. His age in this case will actually be a positive not a negative.

Collins is in the same boat--make 1 million now or 4 million next year. He will be a project for any team that takes him and would be what I call a domestic draft & stash player because he is still very raw. He can't handle any athletic double team which causes him to be foul and TO prone. He often makes mistakes on this end by rushing things when he doesn't have too when he plays more athletic/faster players or is doubled teamed by faster players. He needs a year to build up his body strength to be able to compete at the NBA level. We saw in the USC, Xavier, NC, St. Mary's, and some other games that when he is up against a faster more athletic player he has problems because he can't keep up with their quickness due to his lack of strength right now. He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player. Another weakness that he needs to improve upon is his passing/assist skills (i.e. 16 assists all season) is relatively lackluster while Karno had 75 (did play more mins) and Tillie had 21 (almost 1/2 the mins of Collins) and this comes with playing another year at Gonzaga so he can learn the game better. Otherwise jumping now I see another Austin Daye scenario developing because he didn't learn the skills that have put lesser gifted Gonzaga player into the league. Ask Austin if he made a mistake coming out too early--he will tell you Yes. I'll add that learning & refining your game under Mark Few, Dony Daniels, Tommy Lloyd, etc for at least two seasons actually scores points on the criteria that we evaluate when looking at a player. I'm only addressing ZC weaknesses not his strengths as those are readily known.

Preach!

gonzagafan62
04-07-2017, 09:41 AM
GoZags is right on the money. Trust the staff, Few and especially Knight.

We were harping on Olynyk
Some thought McClellan was bad
Kentucky was making fun of us for wanting wiltjer

At what point do you start trusting the staff???? There's a lot more but I don't think you need more Spy

titopoet
04-07-2017, 10:43 AM
I think Nigel is learning what it means to get massive media attention right now and how that actually translates into dollars later. He is a smart kid with intelligent parents who also understand the impact of national media exposure for another year at the collegiate level and how that translates into getting drafted in the NBA in 2018 and sticking on a roster because that media exposure means more tickets are purchased to see him play in the league. He actually will have a higher name recognition falling the Wiltjer path than dropping out and leaving now. Its not just a contract with the league but its also the ancillary sponsorship deals that he has to think about. Another year in Spokane to continue bolstering his national name or leave now and risk obscurity. The smart play for him is another year but he does need to test the NBA draft out and have his weaknesses evaluated to help him next year. NWG will be on a roster next year in the league as he will be NBA ready so you can insert him in as a role player without missing a beat. His age in this case will actually be a positive not a negative.

Collins is in the same boat--make 1 million now or 4 million next year. He will be a project for any team that takes him and would be what I call a domestic draft & stash player because he is still very raw. He can't handle any athletic double team which causes him to be foul and TO prone. He often makes mistakes on this end by rushing things when he doesn't have too when he plays more athletic/faster players or is doubled teamed by faster players. He needs a year to build up his body strength to be able to compete at the NBA level. We saw in the USC, Xavier, NC, St. Mary's, and some other games that when he is up against a faster more athletic player he has problems because he can't keep up with their quickness due to his lack of strength right now. He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player. Another weakness that he needs to improve upon is his passing/assist skills (i.e. 16 assists all season) is relatively lackluster while Karno had 75 (did play more mins) and Tillie had 21 (almost 1/2 the mins of Collins) and this comes with playing another year at Gonzaga so he can learn the game better. Otherwise jumping now I see another Austin Daye scenario developing because he didn't learn the skills that have put lesser gifted Gonzaga player into the league. Ask Austin if he made a mistake coming out too early--he will tell you Yes. I'll add that learning & refining your game under Mark Few, Dony Daniels, Tommy Lloyd, etc for at least two seasons actually scores points on the criteria that we evaluate when looking at a player. I'm only addressing ZC weaknesses not his strengths as those are readily known.

I wish you were right. Doubt if Collins returns he would be the number one overall and most see him in this year's anywhere between 10-15. If he returns, then maybe top 5 (though as the NBA loves younger players most likely a great season means more like 5-10 draft position though a year would of critical eye it may even mean a slip... Ask Grayson Allen), a difference of not 1 to 4 million, rather more like between 500,000 or so. Still, a good bit a change to be sure. But then you factor in three year rule and financially in the long run, it is better coming out earlier. Also, the NBA has gotten better at developing players and not pushing them to fast so they would love to get him earlier than later. If Collins comes back it will be because he loves the college game and wants to have more glory in the NCAA. If it is all about the money, then it makes no sense to come back. But, that is not the only consideration for Zack. (He would have already declared and hire an agent) Hate to be the one to give the bad news, but that is the truth.

CDC84
04-07-2017, 02:18 PM
I think Nigel is learning what it means to get massive media attention right now and how that actually translates into dollars later. He is a smart kid with intelligent parents who also understand the impact of national media exposure for another year at the collegiate level and how that translates into getting drafted in the NBA in 2018 and sticking on a roster because that media exposure means more tickets are purchased to see him play in the league. He actually will have a higher name recognition falling the Wiltjer path than dropping out and leaving now. Its not just a contract with the league but its also the ancillary sponsorship deals that he has to think about. Another year in Spokane to continue bolstering his national name or leave now and risk obscurity. The smart play for him is another year but he does need to test the NBA draft out and have his weaknesses evaluated to help him next year. NWG will be on a roster next year in the league as he will be NBA ready so you can insert him in as a role player without missing a beat. His age in this case will actually be a positive not a negative.

Collins is in the same boat--make 1 million now or 4 million next year. He will be a project for any team that takes him and would be what I call a domestic draft & stash player because he is still very raw. He can't handle any athletic double team which causes him to be foul and TO prone. He often makes mistakes on this end by rushing things when he doesn't have too when he plays more athletic/faster players or is doubled teamed by faster players. He needs a year to build up his body strength to be able to compete at the NBA level. We saw in the USC, Xavier, NC, St. Mary's, and some other games that when he is up against a faster more athletic player he has problems because he can't keep up with their quickness due to his lack of strength right now. He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player. Another weakness that he needs to improve upon is his passing/assist skills (i.e. 16 assists all season) is relatively lackluster while Karno had 75 (did play more mins) and Tillie had 21 (almost 1/2 the mins of Collins) and this comes with playing another year at Gonzaga so he can learn the game better. Otherwise jumping now I see another Austin Daye scenario developing because he didn't learn the skills that have put lesser gifted Gonzaga player into the league. Ask Austin if he made a mistake coming out too early--he will tell you Yes. I'll add that learning & refining your game under Mark Few, Dony Daniels, Tommy Lloyd, etc for at least two seasons actually scores points on the criteria that we evaluate when looking at a player. I'm only addressing ZC weaknesses not his strengths as those are readily known.

100% agree with this. I mean, with Nigel, it's obvious. Plus he gets to complete his degree right now instead of having to complete it later. Education matters to him greatly.

My worry with Zach is that there will be one team out there that will offer him a guarantee this year that he can't refuse while others pass on him until later, and that he will take that guarantee instead of waiting until many more teams want him and until he is more ready.

CDC84
04-07-2017, 02:20 PM
No way on Bragg. He's a repeat offender. I am fine with taking a kid who made a mistake, but this guy has shown very little that he's capable of being rehabilitated.

Goshzagit
04-07-2017, 06:10 PM
Have a feeling they are both gone.

Our coaches should be recruiting yesterday to fill their positions -- grad transfer or otherwise.

They will each declare, yet who hires an agent?

NWG stock probably won't get any higher, even if he somehow improves, as age works against you. He's not getting bigger, stronger, faster, etc.

Collins stock can actually increase, & this draft is incredibly deep. Not to mention he isnt physically ready. Just look how much Sabonis gets pushed around, hangs on perimeter because they are trying to improve his strength/size. He is way stronger than Collins.

If Im being honest, instead of hopeful...

NWG should go.

Collins should stay.

It will either be vice versa or both are gone.

zagsfanforlife
04-07-2017, 06:18 PM
Yep both are gone.

thespywhozaggedme
04-07-2017, 08:19 PM
GoZags is right on the money. Trust the staff, Few and especially Knight.

We were harping on Olynyk
Some thought McClellan was bad
Kentucky was making fun of us for wanting wiltjer

At what point do you start trusting the staff???? There's a lot more but I don't think you need more Spy

You're missing the point and I'm really getting sick and tired of repeating it. Those three players actually showed some semblance of offense on the court, Jeter has not up to this point. I think many posters are blinded by the names Bishop Gorman and Duke. Now, if he comes here I will welcome him with open arms and cheer my lungs out for him but when people say that he's going to be a star they're setting themselves up for disappointment and it's also unfair to Jeter. I see his ceiling as a 7/7 energy big off the bench and that would be great.

WallaWallaZag
04-07-2017, 09:50 PM
He also needs to work on his FTs because while its a good % its not an elite % for high draft lottery player.

i'm sorry, but free throw percentage from zach is the last thing nba people are worried about...
74% from a freshman big = zero concern...c'mon it's a joke to even bring it up.
simmons shot like 65% or something and no scouting reports ever mentioned it as a major concern.

zagmantis2001
04-08-2017, 10:43 AM
i'm sorry, but free throw percentage from zach is the last thing nba people are worried about...
74% from a freshman big = zero concern...c'mon it's a joke to even bring it up.
simmons shot like 65% or something and no scouting reports ever mentioned it as a major concern.


I understand its a fan message board, but really, you should treat it like a conversation as if you were talking to someone in person. Your tone is a little rude.

Coach Crazy
04-08-2017, 12:06 PM
I understand its a fan message board, but really, you should treat it like a conversation as if you were talking to someone in person. Your tone is a little rude.

This is quite tame compared to what some in the industry might say, if they were being open and honest. If you think what he said was a little rude, I won't say what I'm thinking.

3zagda
04-08-2017, 03:24 PM
If NWG came back he would be one of the preseason favorites for the Wooden award, if not THE favorite.
Just wishful thinking.

TexasZagFan
04-08-2017, 03:56 PM
This is quite tame compared to what some in the industry might say, if they were being open and honest. If you think what he said was a little rude, I won't say what I'm thinking.

Time for Aretha Franklin to let it rip with R-E-S-P-E-C-T!

Then again, I'm on my 3rd margarita...

Worthington
04-08-2017, 05:12 PM
You're missing the point and I'm really getting sick and tired of repeating it. Those three players actually showed some semblance of offense on the court, Jeter has not up to this point. I think many posters are blinded by the names Bishop Gorman and Duke. Now, if he comes here I will welcome him with open arms and cheer my lungs out for him but when people say that he's going to be a star they're setting themselves up for disappointment and it's also unfair to Jeter. I see his ceiling as a 7/7 energy big off the bench and that would be great.

Respectfully disagree. I'm sure you must have watched his high school highlights already so we just must be evaluating him differently, but watching that footage I see a kid with pretty good natural footwork. I really think there is a lot of room for him to improve, he just was not in a good situation at Duke. Needs a coaching staff that will develop him and not just recruit one and dones over him.

Unfortunately we still don't typically recruit kids with his athleticism and size out of high school so I think he is definitely worth a chance. High school rankings can sometimes be a bit off, but usually not by an extraordinary amount, and we're talking about a consensus top 20 recruit. Put me in the camp, saying our staff can turn him into something special.

thespywhozaggedme
04-08-2017, 05:45 PM
Respectfully disagree. I'm sure you must have watched his high school highlights already so we just must be evaluating him differently, but watching that footage I see a kid with pretty good natural footwork. I really think there is a lot of room for him to improve, he just was not in a good situation at Duke. Needs a coaching staff that will develop him and not just recruit one and dones over him.

Unfortunately we still don't typically recruit kids with his athleticism and size out of high school so I think he is definitely worth a chance. High school rankings can sometimes be a bit off, but usually not by an extraordinary amount, and we're talking about a consensus top 20 recruit. Put me in the camp, saying our staff can turn him into something special.

That's fine, we can agree to disagree. I would just caution against using high school performance as a barometer for high major college basketball performance. Like I said if he does come here I will chear my head off for him.

Worthington
04-08-2017, 07:23 PM
That's fine, we can agree to disagree. I would just caution against using high school performance as a barometer for high major college basketball performance. Like I said if he does come here I will chear my head off for him.

For sure, but take a look at this as well. From last summer's Adidas Nations showcase featuring show of college basketball's best where Jeter was 2nd in EWA (Estimated Wins Added) http://www.draftexpress.com/article/The-Top-Ten-Performers-at-the-2016-adidas-Nations-College-Games-5642/


Chase Jeter came into Duke last season as one of the most highly recruited players in the country (#11 RSCI), but struggled to earn playing time even with his team severely lacking front-court depth, battling foul trouble and confidence issues virtually every time he stepped on the floor. Jeter will have another opportunity to showcase his skills as he heads into his sophomore season but now has to deal with a number of highly recruited freshmen such as Harry Giles and Marques Bolden, as well as the return of Amile Jefferson. The Adidas Nations was a good format for Jeter perform without having to worry about foul trouble or playing time, and the lack of high-level big men gave him a nice opportunity to gain confidence in this setting.

At 6'10 and just 18 years old, Jeter already has the size of an NBA big, which he used to control the glass at the Adidas Nations, finishing second in rebounds per game at 6.8, an area that was always a strong point of his at the high school level. On the offensive end of the floor he is able to contribute in variety of ways, but looked comfortable in Los Angeles screening and diving hard to the rim, a skill that will definitely benefit him once he gets to the pro level.

He is a fluid athlete who looks smooth running the floor and finishing above the rim in space, and has some limited ball handling abilities which he has shown he can use in a pinch in the face up game. He has already showed some nice footwork in his back to the basket game as well as the ability to finish with either hand, but can often get away with using his size and length to work his way to the rim.

He'll have to learn how to recognize double teams and pass out of the post, as at times he looked somewhat rushed looking for his own offense. Defensively, while he can definitely be a factor on the glass, he also some potential as a rim protector given his size, mobility and big standing reach. He seems to have a good grasp of help defense, but could stand do get stronger and tougher so he can deal with some more physical players on the block.

Despite a disappointing freshman season, it appears its too early to give up on Jeter given his age, size, rebounding prowess and budding skill set, and it will be interesting to see where he gets his chances with what appears to be a loaded Duke roster next season. Against decent competition at the Adidas Nations, he showed he is capable of being productive, and it is likely only a matter of time before he gets that opportunity on the college level. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/The-Top-Ten-Performers-at-the-2016-adidas-Nations-College-Games-5642/ ©DraftExpress

thespywhozaggedme
04-08-2017, 08:36 PM
For sure, but take a look at this as well. From last summer's Adidas Nations showcase featuring show of college basketball's best where Jeter was 2nd in EWA (Estimated Wins Added) http://www.draftexpress.com/article/The-Top-Ten-Performers-at-the-2016-adidas-Nations-College-Games-5642/

Great write up but again keep in mind those are camps not actual games where it counts.

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-09-2017, 06:21 AM
Time for Aretha Franklin to let it rip with R-E-S-P-E-C-T!

Then again, I'm on my 3rd margarita...

Sounds like you're about to cut loose with a little karaoke...

WallaWallaZag
04-10-2017, 05:58 PM
I understand its a fan message board, but really, you should treat it like a conversation as if you were talking to someone in person. Your tone is a little rude.

i'm not sure how you get a rude tone from this...as far as i'm concerned, these would probably be the exact same words coming out of my mouth if i was sitting next to my best bud basketballzag at a bar having a few drinks...maybe i need to add a smiley face at the end of my sentences?

willandi
04-10-2017, 07:10 PM
This is quite tame compared to what some in the industry might say, if they were being open and honest. If you think what he said was a little rude, I won't say what I'm thinking.

It's OK. I'm not an umpire!

TexasZagFan
04-11-2017, 04:38 AM
Sounds like you're about to cut loose with a little karaoke...

No way, man. I don't get that drunk anymore.

On top of that, the only songs I'd consider would be those from Gerry Rafferty...but I would be thrown out once the first couple bars of Baker Street were played.

bigblahla
04-11-2017, 04:58 AM
No way, man. I don't get that drunk anymore.

On top of that, the only songs I'd consider would be those from Gerry Rafferty...but I would be thrown out once the first couple bars of Baker Street were played.

nah..we'd all be "Stuck in the Middle With You"....ahhh "Baker Street" one of the most soulful sax lines ever written....good taste in music my friend..:D

Go!! Zags!!!

Bogozags
04-11-2017, 04:59 AM
No way, man. I don't get that drunk anymore.

On top of that, the only songs I'd consider would be those from Gerry Rafferty...but I would be thrown out once the first couple bars of Baker Street were played.

That was a GREAT song! I wanna say circa fall of '77 or spring of '78...both great years...I could still run and throw and jump AND DANCE!

TexasZagFan
04-11-2017, 05:09 AM
That was a GREAT song! I wanna say circa fall of '77 or spring of '78...both great years...I could still run and throw and jump AND DANCE!

That album was released in '78, my second year in Germany. I still like the song, though many others hate it.

Bogozags
04-11-2017, 05:18 AM
That album was released in '78, my second year in Germany. I still like the song, though many others hate it.

The "others" were just surrounded by "bad taste"...

I gave it a 93 as it was easy to listen and dance too!

basketballzag
04-11-2017, 05:50 AM
i'm sorry, but free throw percentage from zach is the last thing nba people are worried about...
74% from a freshman big = zero concern...c'mon it's a joke to even bring it up.
simmons shot like 65% or something and no scouting reports ever mentioned it as a major concern.

Its not the last thing NBA people are worried about and the evaluation I wrote above are my notes on Collins which is I why I can say its not the last thing "nba people" are worried about. I also didn't say it was a major concern but it is something that is slightly below average for a player of his caliber and a factor that will count against him when grading him out overall.

thebigsmoove
04-11-2017, 05:57 AM
That's fine, we can agree to disagree. I would just caution against using high school performance as a barometer for high major college basketball performance. Like I said if he does come here I will chear my head off for him.

Yeah Dont use high school performance to judge whether you should recruit players...just takes shots in the dark based on your opinion. You got it man ;)

amaronizag
04-11-2017, 07:36 AM
Basketballzag, I always love your perspective!! Thanks for adding a dose of reality to threads that tend to create their own "reality" as they spin ever farther away from reality. Nobody can know what goes on in the minds of these kids, or their families, the advice these kids are getting, or the motivations behind decisions to turn pro. But, the more perspectives they listen to from people that understand the game and the process, the better decisions they will make. I hope they are reading your posts.

mgadfly
04-11-2017, 08:49 AM
Its not the last thing NBA people are worried about and the evaluation I wrote above are my notes on Collins which is I why I can say its not the last thing "nba people" are worried about. I also didn't say it was a major concern but it is something that is slightly below average for a player of his caliber and a factor that will count against him when grading him out overall.

NBA people are not worried about his free throw shooting. If anything, it is a positive when they are evaluating him.

How many 19 year old seven footers have a higher free throw percentage?
For that matter, how many college 7-footers do?
How many NBA 7-foot rookies (with more than 10 or so FT attempts) have a better percentage?

The answer to the first question is zero.
The answer to the second, is not very many. The only qualifying 7-footer in the top 100 free throw shooters in college this year was Luke Kornet. When he was a freshman he shot .533 from the line, as a sophomore a Collins-esque .764, as a junior .690 and then had this great free throw shooting season.

If Collins shot 74% as an NBA rookie this season he'd be ranked #1 among centers (with enough attempts) or #2 if you count 23 year old Embiid as a rookie (since he I think he technically does do to the injuries). He's second in the WCC among big men in FT% to only the much older Mika. He's 17th overall in the WCC and would be 18th overall amongst NBA rookies.

74% as a 19 year old is fantastic and a positive on the evaluation among NBA scouts. If that is what we mean by "NBA people."

And if you want to go further, he's a much better shooter than Poetl (.545) or Maker (.630) from last year. He's even better than Skal who plays PF.

Comparing him to some of the big named post guys this year (just looking at a CBS article of potential high picks at the beginning of this season): Patton (.518 FT%); Allen (.564), Adebayo (.653), Humphries (.600), Bolden (who knows, at .625 when injured), Giles (.500), Bryant (.730) ...

Zags_Fanatic
04-11-2017, 09:30 AM
NBA people are not worried about his free throw shooting. If anything, it is a positive when they are evaluating him.

How many 19 year old seven footers have a higher free throw percentage?
For that matter, how many college 7-footers do?
How many NBA 7-foot rookies (with more than 10 or so FT attempts) have a better percentage?

The answer to the first question is zero.
The answer to the second, is not very many. The only qualifying 7-footer in the top 100 free throw shooters in college this year was Luke Kornet. When he was a freshman he shot .533 from the line, as a sophomore a Collins-esque .764, as a junior .690 and then had this great free throw shooting season.

If Collins shot 74% as an NBA rookie this season he'd be ranked #1 among centers (with enough attempts) or #2 if you count 23 year old Embiid as a rookie (since he I think he technically does do to the injuries). He's second in the WCC among big men in FT% to only the much older Mika. He's 17th overall in the WCC and would be 18th overall amongst NBA rookies.

74% as a 19 year old is fantastic and a positive on the evaluation among NBA scouts. If that is what we mean by "NBA people."

And if you want to go further, he's a much better shooter than Poetl (.545) or Maker (.630) from last year. He's even better than Skal who plays PF.

Comparing him to some of the big named post guys this year (just looking at a CBS article of potential high picks at the beginning of this season): Patton (.518 FT%); Allen (.564), Adebayo (.653), Humphries (.600), Bolden (who knows, at .625 when injured), Giles (.500), Bryant (.730) ...

mgadfly dropping the mic. I want so badly to have Collins for one more year, maybe more than any other early entry including Ammo, Olynyk and Sabonis. I think he has a legitimate chance to be NPOY with extended minutes, but if NBA scouts and execs get their way (and they usually do) the money will win. And really, after his parents supported him the way that they did by selling their house so he could go to Gorman and sit on the bench until his senior year because they believed it would be the best place for him I couldn't blame him or them at all for looking for a return on investment when his stock is so high. I do believe that if this was an easy decision for him he would have announced already and every day that passes the chances of him staying are probably a little bit higher.

mgadfly
04-11-2017, 10:11 AM
mgadfly dropping the mic. I want so badly to have Collins for one more year, maybe more than any other early entry including Ammo, Olynyk and Sabonis. I think he has a legitimate chance to be NPOY with extended minutes, but if NBA scouts and execs get their way (and they usually do) the money will win. And really, after his parents supported him the way that they did by selling their house so he could go to Gorman and sit on the bench until his senior year because they believed it would be the best place for him I couldn't blame him or them at all for looking for a return on investment when his stock is so high. I do believe that if this was an easy decision for him he would have announced already and every day that passes the chances of him staying are probably a little bit higher.

I desperately want him to stay too. But if he goes and works out and someone tells him he is a sure thing for the top 10-13, I don't think he will be coming back (and I wouldn't blame him). I'd still be sad because he could have a monster year for the Zags.

EEzag
04-11-2017, 10:34 AM
I desperately want him to stay too. But if he goes and works out and someone tells him he is a sure thing for the top 10-13, I don't think he will be coming back (and I wouldn't blame him). I'd still be sad because he could have a monster year for the Zags.

We have Collins because of the fact he could come here, develop, and become an NBA lottery pick. I hate to see him go because he is one of the most talented freshman we've ever had. He was a 5-star MDAA and played like it. He could be the first real 'one-and-done' we've ever had. I'm with CDC, we need to pound the recruiting trails now while the iron is hot, and if Collins goes early, that is just more fuel. In the eyes of many high school kids, this is the most important fuel. Think about this: What if we can now tell parents and kids that we put kids in the NBA lottery regularly, while still maintaining an elite NC contending program and a safe, family environment? Oh yeah, we can. Making the FF was important, but more from the perspective that now rival schools can't hold it against us. I have to think more kids are going to be able to look at GU and check off ALL of their decision making boxes. Pretty cool stuff.

Ekrub
04-11-2017, 10:55 AM
NBA people are not worried about his free throw shooting. If anything, it is a positive when they are evaluating him.

How many 19 year old seven footers have a higher free throw percentage?
For that matter, how many college 7-footers do?
How many NBA 7-foot rookies (with more than 10 or so FT attempts) have a better percentage?

The answer to the first question is zero.
The answer to the second, is not very many. The only qualifying 7-footer in the top 100 free throw shooters in college this year was Luke Kornet. When he was a freshman he shot .533 from the line, as a sophomore a Collins-esque .764, as a junior .690 and then had this great free throw shooting season.

If Collins shot 74% as an NBA rookie this season he'd be ranked #1 among centers (with enough attempts) or #2 if you count 23 year old Embiid as a rookie (since he I think he technically does do to the injuries). He's second in the WCC among big men in FT% to only the much older Mika. He's 17th overall in the WCC and would be 18th overall amongst NBA rookies.

74% as a 19 year old is fantastic and a positive on the evaluation among NBA scouts. If that is what we mean by "NBA people."

And if you want to go further, he's a much better shooter than Poetl (.545) or Maker (.630) from last year. He's even better than Skal who plays PF.

Comparing him to some of the big named post guys this year (just looking at a CBS article of potential high picks at the beginning of this season): Patton (.518 FT%); Allen (.564), Adebayo (.653), Humphries (.600), Bolden (who knows, at .625 when injured), Giles (.500), Bryant (.730) ...

We'll, if I'm reading basketballzags post correctly, at least one "nba guy" is worried.

Bing
04-11-2017, 11:06 AM
We'll, if I'm reading basketballzags post correctly, at least one "nba guy" is worried.

You are reading BBZ correctly.

mgadfly
04-11-2017, 05:16 PM
We'll, if I'm reading basketballzags post correctly, at least one "nba guy" is worried.

You mean the one that guaranteed Pangos was a first round draft pick and Wiltjer would improve his draft stock by coming back for his senior season. Or was it the one that said Byron Wesley was a second round pick.

Nothing against him, and I often agree with his posts, but the free throw thing on Collins is a joke. His original post on it was fine (he isn't an elite free throw shooter) but he doubled down on it and it is not a concern.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 06:06 PM
You mean the one that guaranteed Pangos was a first round draft pick and Wiltjer would improve his draft stock by coming back for his senior season. Or was it the one that said Byron Wesley was a second round pick.

Nothing against him, and I often agree with his posts, but the free throw thing on Collins is a joke. His original post on it was fine (he isn't an elite free throw shooter) but he doubled down on it and it is not a concern.

As much as I do not agree with him on Zach, I won't get on him too much about some of those. I've been wrong on some, as well.

But I do agree that the FT thing isn't a concern. Even if it were lower, unless he is a free throw-dense scorer, that percentage really means much less than a forward that will be at the line more. And given the recession of the midrange game, I just don't see FT's as an indicator of how a stretch 4/5 will shoot his 3's.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WallaWallaZag
04-12-2017, 01:43 AM
Its not the last thing NBA people are worried about and the evaluation I wrote above are my notes on Collins which is I why I can say its not the last thing "nba people" are worried about. I also didn't say it was a major concern but it is something that is slightly below average for a player of his caliber and a factor that will count against him when grading him out overall.

count against him? every scout i've talked to has indicated his free throw shooting is a net positive for him (if it was even mentioned at all)