PDA

View Full Version : Roster next year?



gonzagafan62
04-04-2017, 08:13 AM
what's the roster like and a starting five assuming Collins, NWG leave? Thanks.

gonzagafan62
04-04-2017, 08:14 AM
Rui and Larsen will probably have to be huge factors

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 08:14 AM
I'll just copy and paste what I wrote late last night in the other thread:

As of right now, if both NWG and ZC leave, this is how I see our lineup:

PG: Josh, Wade
SG: Silas, Norvell
SF: Kispert, Rui
PF: JWIII, Killian
C: Larsen, ?

Of course as we all know this will not be remotely close to our final roster as I'm sure we will have one or two grad transfers and/or some highly rated freshman coming in. Either way next year should be pretty exciting too.

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 08:18 AM
PG: Perkins --> Wade
SG: Norvell -->Alberts
SF: Melson -->Kispert
PF: J3 -->Hachimura
C: Tillie --> Larson --> Edwards

And a mystery grad transfer if both leave. So pretty good.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 08:23 AM
PG: Perkins --> Wade
SG: Norvell -->Alberts
SF: Melson -->Kispert
PF: J3 -->Hachimura
C: Tillie --> Larson --> Edwards

And a mystery grad transfer if both leave. So pretty good.

This may go against the grain, but I'd like to see Silas as the 6th man again. He's carving out a niche in that spot for the NBA.

Zagdawg
04-04-2017, 08:27 AM
We have 2 openings for transfers when NWG and Collins leave.

I expect an experienced big and a guard.

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 08:30 AM
We have 2 openings for transfers when NWG and Collins leave.

I expect an experienced big and a guard.

There will be two openings, but I'd bet the coaching staff only uses 1 (or 0) on a grad transfer with immediate eligibility. The other would be held in reserve for a freshman the following year or a traditional-transfer who'd have to red shirt their first year. So I'd guess we'd add a big OR a guard for 2017-18 and a big OR a guard for 2018-19 (but I think it's too early to start the 2018-19 starting five thread).

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 08:32 AM
PG: Perkins --> Wade
SG: Norvell -->Alberts
SF: Melson -->Kispert
PF: J3 -->Hachimura
C: Tillie --> Larson --> Edwards

And a mystery grad transfer if both leave. So pretty good.

We would be woefully undersized if JWIII and Tille were our starting front court. I don't think either one is truly taller than 6'9. By all accounts Larsen was more than holding his own in practice and was the biggest surprise in camp. he was dominant in Euro junior competitions; anticipating to see what he can do. And I think Tommy is on record as saying that Rui is a sf, but Few has the luxury of mix and matching. The next few months should be very interesting.

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 08:32 AM
This may go against the grain, but I'd like to see Silas as the 6th man again. He's carving out a niche in that spot for the NBA.


He certainly excelled in the role this year. However, if I was Few and I lost NWG I'd probably want Silas to start (and finish games) since he brings experience with the system. Assuming NWG left we'd have three starting spots to fill and Melson certainly earned it this year.

Zagdawg
04-04-2017, 08:36 AM
Heard the same about Larsen being ahead of Tillie in camps before the injury -- hope his healing is going well.

Hoping to see a big jump from Rui over the summer and hope Wade gets into solid playing shape in the 4-5 months he will have to get where he needs to be.

Norvell is going to be a big addition also-- his demeanor reminds me of Gray when he is on the court--silent assassin type.

Coach Crazy
04-04-2017, 08:38 AM
I think you'll see some cross contributing. Instead of building a depth chart, I'll just leave it as a starting 5 and a bench.

PG: Josh Perkins
SG: Silas or Zack
SF: Silas or Zack
PF: Jonathan Williams
C : Jacob Larsen

Bench:
Killian Tillie
Corey Kispert
Jesse Wade
Rui Hachimura

Can't really say beyond this...because we don't know what transfer options might be available.

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 08:42 AM
I think you'll see some cross contributing. Instead of building a depth chart, I'll just leave it as a starting 5 and a bench.

PG: Josh Perkins
SG: Silas or Zack
SF: Silas or Zack
PF: Jonathan Williams
C : Jacob Larsen

Bench:
Killian Tillie
Corey Kispert
Jesse Wade
Rui Hachimura

Can't really say beyond this...because we don't know what transfer options might be available.

aLMOST IDENTICAL TO MINE, EXCEPT IF WHAT WE HEAR ABOUT ck IS TRUE, HE COULD BE OUR STARTING SF, RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. bY ALL ACCOUNTS HE'S AS SKILLED AND ADVANCED AS zc WAS COMING OUTTA HIGHSCHOOL, BUT IN A SF BODY. cAN'T WAIT TO SEE HIM.

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 08:42 AM
We would be woefully undersized if JWIII and Tille were our starting front court. I don't think either one is truly taller than 6'9. By all accounts Larsen was more than holding his own in practice and was the biggest surprise in camp. he was dominant in Euro junior competitions; anticipating to see what he can do. And I think Tommy is on record as saying that Rui is a sf, but Few has the luxury of mix and matching. The next few months should be very interesting.

I agree. I'd love to see Larsen ready to take on the starting role and GU use Rui as a SF, but I'd bet that Few goes with proven guys (at least initially) even if the lineup included two PF types rather than a center. I think it will be Rui vs Silas or Norvell for those wing minutes (and maybe Kispert for the backup SF minutes) and I'm not sure he takes many of them away from those guys. If Larsen or Edwards aren't able to play the traditional 5 role at the level GU needs, it'd be interesting to see what Few does with these smaller more athletic wing-forward types. Can he change the style/approach a little to maximize their talents?

Coach Crazy
04-04-2017, 09:00 AM
aLMOST IDENTICAL TO MINE, EXCEPT IF WHAT WE HEAR ABOUT ck IS TRUE, HE COULD BE OUR STARTING SF, RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. bY ALL ACCOUNTS HE'S AS SKILLED AND ADVANCED AS zc WAS COMING OUTTA HIGHSCHOOL, BUT IN A SF BODY. cAN'T WAIT TO SEE HIM.

If he maintains his ability to shoot at this level, and pass...I think he could challenge Silas, in terms of production. But Silas will be a senior in a system where he has become a utility player. Having said that, Corey isn't going to be as much of a dribble-drive threat, at the college level (at least not initially). But in Mark Few's offense, he could be very dangerous passing and shooting on the wing, making cuts during post entries to our bigs, and finishing in transition.

Zack is every bit the guard that Collins was a forward, this year. He's going to be a nightmare for opposing teams to guard, and he'll open up a lot for those around him.

Birddog
04-04-2017, 09:03 AM
I suspect if one or both of Collins and NW-G leave, that Jeremy Jones gets one scholly. Karno's and Mathew's schollies go to Wade and Kispert. Am I missing something here? Unless someone else leaves there isn't much room on the roster. Triano could even be rewarded. I think barring another injury, Jones makes it into the rotation.

hooter73
04-04-2017, 09:03 AM
I figure it'll be back to the two forwards like we did with wiltjer and sabonis. None of the playable bigs left are centers. Larsen may be the closest but a euro big is an American forward.

Hoopaholic
04-04-2017, 09:04 AM
We would be woefully undersized if JWIII and Tille were our starting front court. I don't think either one is truly taller than 6'9. By all accounts Larsen was more than holding his own in practice and was the biggest surprise in camp. he was dominant in Euro junior competitions; anticipating to see what he can do. And I think Tommy is on record as saying that Rui is a sf, but Few has the luxury of mix and matching. The next few months should be very interesting.

wow are we starting to get spoiled......"woefully undersized".....how many teams started a 6-9 and a 6-10 player together.......not many that I can think of

Larsen is 6-11

LongIslandZagFan
04-04-2017, 09:05 AM
If Zach leaves... Tillie will NOT be on the bench. He just won't. Killian will not be here all 4 years... I suspect 2 maybe 3. It all rests on transfers.

Hoopaholic
04-04-2017, 09:19 AM
If Zach leaves... Tillie will NOT be on the bench. He just won't. Killian will not be here all 4 years... I suspect 2 maybe 3. It all rests on transfers.

even if Collins returns I dont think you can keep Tillie off the floor.......could see alot of Collins, J3 and Tillie together with Tillie get SF time

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 09:27 AM
wow are we starting to get spoiled......"woefully undersized".....how many teams started a 6-9 and a 6-10 player together.......not many that I can think of

Larsen is 6-11

True, but like I said, I think that they're both listed a few inches taller than their true height. I'd be shocked if either is taller than 6'9 in real life. Plus Killian doesn't have the frame to bang underneath as a center, he's a perfect stretch 4, just like JWIII, with those two, we have the best returning pair of pf's in the country, imho. I'm excited to see what Larsen can do too.

ZagzKrak
04-04-2017, 09:27 AM
Do BA and Edwards stick it out here...or go some where for playing time? Just food for thought....I like them both but if I had their skills I would want to play meaningful minutes somewhere.

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 09:31 AM
I figure it'll be back to the two forwards like we did with wiltjer and sabonis. None of the playable bigs left are centers. Larsen may be the closest but a euro big is an American forward.

Uh......how quickly we forget Shem. lol

IowaSERE
04-04-2017, 09:37 AM
Any chance that Edwards gets in shape, and is motivated to be a baby Shem? He has great hands, nice touch on his shots, and a few serviceable moves. If he could get 10-15 min to backup Larson it sure would help.

If not, he needs to move on and make room for someone who WANTS to be on the floor and be a contributor.

Saxon_zag
04-04-2017, 10:12 AM
Any chance that Edwards gets in shape, and is motivated to be a baby Shem? He has great hands, nice touch on his shots, and a few serviceable moves. If he could get 10-15 min to backup Larson it sure would help.

If not, he needs to move on and make room for someone who WANTS to be on the floor and be a contributor.

You think he doesn't want to be on the floor contributing? Kind of a silly post...

Either way, I suspect Ryan Edwards will use the grad transfer rule and use his last year of eligibility somewhere else. No inside info just seems likely.

hooter73
04-04-2017, 10:13 AM
Uh......how quickly we forget Shem. lol

Lol good point

hooter73
04-04-2017, 10:14 AM
Any chance that Edwards gets in shape, and is motivated to be a baby Shem? He has great hands, nice touch on his shots, and a few serviceable moves. If he could get 10-15 min to backup Larson it sure would help.

If not, he needs to move on and make room for someone who WANTS to be on the floor and be a contributor.

Yeah quite honestly, to be nice, the chances are quite low.

hooter73
04-04-2017, 10:25 AM
You think he doesn't want to be on the floor contributing? Kind of a silly post...

Either way, I suspect Ryan Edwards will use the grad transfer rule and use his last year of eligibility somewhere else. No inside info just seems likely.

Edwards is this teams will foster. They played basketball because they were big and big people play basketball. They love the team, enjoy the game, but their purpose for college is not basketball. And that's ok. They are great teammates and put in the work that is asked of them. That's mostly subjective on my part about Edwards but first hand from will.

I think Edwards stays and continues to do what he does and do it well. Others may have different thoughts on that with the level they think this team is at.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 10:38 AM
Edwards is this teams will foster. They played basketball because they were big and big people play basketball. They love the team, enjoy the game, but their purpose for college is not basketball. And that's ok. They are great teammates and put in the work that is asked of them. That's mostly subjective on my part about Edwards but first hand from will.

I think Edwards stays and continues to do what he does and do it well. Others may have different thoughts on that with the level they think this team is at.

Not every team has a 7 footer for their scout team.

hooter73
04-04-2017, 10:41 AM
Exactly. They are great teammates to have. Most people just want all 7 footers to show their NBA potential all the time and that's just not reality

MontanaCoyote
04-04-2017, 11:09 AM
Uh......how quickly we forget Shem. lol

Will never forget Shem. Next year's team certainly will have a new look, but it will take me well into the season not to see Shem or the ghost of Shem out there patrolling the paint, directing traffic, keeping things together.

And I do think we'll miss his experience and leadership. Here's hoping that some one fills the void where a giant once stood.

thebigsmoove
04-04-2017, 11:40 AM
...I suspect Ryan Edwards will use the grad transfer rule and use his last year of eligibility somewhere else.

I could see that too. I wonder if Alberts is leaning towards a transfer as well. Hes not going to get any minutes in a backcourt with Norvell, Perkins, and Melson. He seems like he should be playing somewhere though.

seacatfan
04-04-2017, 11:54 AM
I could see that too. I wonder if Alberts is leaning towards a transfer as well. Hes not going to get any minutes in a backcourt with Norvell, Perkins, and Melson. He seems like he should be playing somewhere though.

He already used his RS. If he transferred now, he would be giving up an entire year of eligibility. If he waits one more year and graduates he would be eligible to do the grad student transfer thing.

isongd
04-04-2017, 11:59 AM
I could see that too. I wonder if Alberts is leaning towards a transfer as well. Hes not going to get any minutes in a backcourt with Norvell, Perkins, and Melson. He seems like he should be playing somewhere though.

I don't know enough about Alberts/Norvell/Wade to really speculate who would win a battle for PT. But if I'm any of the three, I see a opportunity for me to be a big part of the team next year with Mathews minutes up for grabs. I'd have a tough time transferring if I knew I had a chance to play big minutes on a team that just played in the national championship, especially in the event NWG leaves.

Coach Crazy
04-04-2017, 12:06 PM
I don't know enough about Alberts/Norvell/Wade to really speculate who would win a battle for PT. But if I'm any of the three, I see a opportunity for me to be a big part of the team next year with Mathews minutes up for grabs. I'd have a tough time transferring if I knew I had a chance to play big minutes on a team that just played in the national championship, especially in the event NWG leaves.

He'll have to compete with Norvell, Josh Perkins (when he's the off-guard), Silas, Rui, AND Kispert. He's going to have to pull a Buddy Hield-style turnaround. I don't want to post material that would hurt the feelings or confidence of any player that reads this. But I also want to speak realistically. He's going to have a whole off-season to prepare for the opportunity to earn his minutes. It'll be up to him.

dhozagfan08
04-04-2017, 12:28 PM
Edwards is this teams will foster. They played basketball because they were big and big people play basketball. They love the team, enjoy the game, but their purpose for college is not basketball. And that's ok. They are great teammates and put in the work that is asked of them. That's mostly subjective on my part about Edwards but first hand from will.

I think Edwards stays and continues to do what he does and do it well. Others may have different thoughts on that with the level they think this team is at.

There are similarities, but I do think Edwards and Foster are very different. I think Edwards has a lot more skill. He has soft hands and can shoot. Foster never seemed to be able to hold onto the ball or shoot. Seems like the only thing holding Edwards back is his conditioning. I think he would start on most WCC teams.

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 01:08 PM
He already used his RS. If he transferred now, he would be giving up an entire year of eligibility. If he waits one more year and graduates he would be eligible to do the grad student transfer thing.

The year that he'd be giving up would be as a deep bench reserve for GU. Can he go to a new school and practice with them for his junior year (graduate) and then decide to stay for his senior year or transfer somewhere else as a grad transfer?

I'd stay and try to earn minutes before doing the grad transfer thing after my junior year, but I could see someone else wanting to get a year practicing with a new team if that option is available.

Saxon_zag
04-04-2017, 01:08 PM
He already used his RS. If he transferred now, he would be giving up an entire year of eligibility. If he waits one more year and graduates he would be eligible to do the grad student transfer thing.

Well the fact that he used his RS year means he has been on campus for 4 school years. Wouldn't that put him on track to be finishing up his degree this spring, and eligible to use his final season of eligibility anywhere he wants without sitting out thanks to that rule?

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 01:10 PM
Well the fact that he used his RS year means he has been on campus for 4 school years. Wouldn't that put him on track to be finishing up his degree this spring, and eligible to use his final season of eligibility anywhere he wants without sitting out thanks to that rule?

I think he redshirted in 2015.
He played as a FR in 2016.
He played as a SO in 2017.

So he's been in school three years by my count and has two years of eligibility.

Saxon_zag
04-04-2017, 01:22 PM
I think he redshirted in 2015.
He played as a FR in 2016.
He played as a SO in 2017.

So he's been in school three years by my count and has two years of eligibility.

No he's been here a year longer than that. He played his 1st year in 13-14 as a freshmen ( Think we had injuries or were thin up front when the thought all along was to redshirt him) and then he took his redshirt the following year. Played in 15-16 and of course played this year in 16-17.

maynard g krebs
04-04-2017, 01:30 PM
No he's been here a year longer than that. He played his 1st year in 13-14 as a freshmen ( Think we had injuries or were thin up front when the thought all along was to redshirt him) and then he took his redshirt the following year. Played in 15-16 and of course played this year in 16-17.

If we're talking about Alberts, he came in w/ Perkins/Melson and is currently a rs soph like Perkins.

seacatfan
04-04-2017, 01:49 PM
Alberts is a RS soph. I wouldn't guess he's on track to graduate in June. He has 2 years of eligibility remaining, but if he transfers now he would lose his Jr. year. I don't know if not playing at GU is better than flat out losing a year of eligibility. You rarely see a player do that.

Alum08
04-04-2017, 01:51 PM
Alberts is a RS soph. I wouldn't guess he's on track to graduate in June. He has 2 years of eligibility remaining, but if he transfers now he would lose his Jr. year. I don't know if not playing at GU is better than flat out losing a year of eligibility. You rarely see a player do that.

He could still go to grad school.

seacatfan
04-04-2017, 02:05 PM
Man, not sure where the confusion is on this. You have up to 5 years to use 4 years of eligibility (in rare cases a 6th year if there is an injury/extenuating circumstances). If you transfer you have to sit out a year, unless you've already graduated and are going to a school that has a grad program not offered at a your previous school. Since Alberts has already used a redshirt year, and assuming he won't graduate in June, he would have to sit out next year if he transfers plus he would lose his Jr. year of eligibility. Then he would have one year left to play. At that point he might have his undergrad degree and he could start grad school, but it would have no effect on his eligibility. If you've already played 4 years, you don't magically get another year of eligibility if you are a grad transfer. Or in this hypothetical case Alberts wouldn't get back another year because his 5 years would've already passed and there wouldn't be an injury waiver and he would've already RS 2 years. Again, assuming he doesn't graduate in June his options are to stay at GU if he wants to be able to compete all 4 years or give up an entire year, his Jr. year eligibility wise, if he left now.

Mathews was able to transfer from Cal after 3 years and play immediately at GU because he managed to graduate in 3 years. Not many college students pull that off.

Alum08
04-04-2017, 02:20 PM
Man, not sure where the confusion is on this. You have up to 5 years to use 4 years of eligibility (in rare cases a 6th year if there is an injury/extenuating circumstances). If you transfer you have to sit out a year, unless you've already graduated and are going to a school that has a grad program not offered at a your previous school. Since Alberts has already used a redshirt year, and assuming he won't graduate in June, he would have to sit out next year if he transfers plus he would lose his Jr. year of eligibility. Then he would have one year left to play. At that point he might have his undergrad degree and he could start grad school, but it would have no effect on his eligibility. If you've already played 4 years, you don't magically get another year of eligibility if you are a grad transfer. Or in this hypothetical case Alberts wouldn't get back another year because his 5 years would've already passed and there wouldn't be an injury waiver and he would've already RS 2 years. Again, assuming he doesn't graduate in June his options are to stay at GU if he wants to be able to compete all 4 years or give up an entire year, his Jr. year eligibility wise, if he left now.

Mathews was able to transfer from Cal after 3 years and play immediately at GU because he managed to graduate in 3 years. Not many college students pull that off.

I'm only familiar with this because of Grant Gibbs and Ed Davis, but the NCAA will extend the 5th year limit out to 6 years in some instances. I could imagine going an entire season without any playing time might qualify him.

seacatfan
04-04-2017, 02:22 PM
I think Gibbs did have an injury if I remember correctly. If every guy that got buried on a bench got a 5th year of eligibility, holy cow that would be a lot of extra years of eligibility being doled out!

Saxon_zag
04-04-2017, 02:26 PM
If we're talking about Alberts, he came in w/ Perkins/Melson and is currently a rs soph like Perkins.

Oh yeah my bad if misread the conversation. I was talking about Ryan Edwards the whole time

Worthington
04-04-2017, 04:20 PM
A little late to the party, but if NWG and Collins leave then I see the starting lineup next year as

PG - Perkins
SG - Melson
SF - Norvell
PF - JW3
C - Tillie

- Few would really have to change the way we played if this was our starting five, but I love the versatility of this unit, both on offense and defense.

- I think the odds of us landing a grad transfer are VERY high. However, I really don't know whether the staff will target a guard or a big. I think our guard depth is quite good with the new recruits and Norvell coming off his red-shirt, but I don't know if we have a big time scorer/go to guy in that group at this point. On the other hand, we could definitely use a little bit more size and depth in the front court. A lot would ride on how good Larsen actually is and only those within the program know that at this point.

- There was a recent photo of Norvell standing beside Jordan Mathews, and Norvell looked to be at least 6'6. I think Norvell will be a revelation next year, he can shoot the lights out and is a very unselfish player who should earn the trust of Few pretty quickly.

- I didn't see enough out of Hachimura to make me think he will be ready to step into a starting role as soon as next year. The tools are there, and he could take a massive leap forward in the offseason, I just think his progression will be a bit more gradual. My hope for him is to be a key piece off the bench.

- Kispert is the dark horse. It's not a typical Few move to start a true freshman, but I honestly think this kid might be that poised. His 'NBA potential' might not be as high as some, but I think we netted ourselves a top 50 player in 2017.

- Larsen is a big question mark. He looks like he's bulked up significantly during his off season and could be a presence in the paint. I'm optimistic that he could be the next great BIG man at Gonzaga, but I just haven't seen or heard enough to be confident that he will be ready to start as soon as next season. Really excited to see him play.

Reborn
04-04-2017, 05:09 PM
Why assume they are leaving. They are here today. In my opinion this thread is way too early. My God they just finished the season yesterday.

willandi
04-04-2017, 05:59 PM
Not assuming anybody is leaving, but if you go to D2 instead of D1 you don't have to sit out a year. At least that is what I remember.

gonzagafan62
04-04-2017, 06:11 PM
Not assuming anybody is leaving, but if you go to D2 instead of D1 you don't have to sit out a year. At least that is what I remember.

Example: Gerard Coleman

MileHigh
04-04-2017, 06:22 PM
Alberts will be able to grad transfer after the summer
Similar to Mathews.

gonzagafan62
04-04-2017, 06:25 PM
Alberts will be able to grad transfer after the summer
Similar to Mathews.

I think of all the possible guys that could leave I kinda wanna keep alberts.

Mantua
04-04-2017, 06:48 PM
I would like to see a graduate transfer show up, along with a regular transfer or a promising freshman big.
This recruiting season will certainly have my attention. Mostly, I truly wish that Nigel would stay, let alone Collins.

Who on earth is going to try to step into Rem's shoes? Wow, I'll miss Rem.

MDABE80
04-04-2017, 07:59 PM
The problems if having kids who are Final Four caliber. They leave early!

mgadfly
04-04-2017, 08:07 PM
Alberts will be able to grad transfer after the summer
Similar to Mathews.

Do you know that he is far enough in his classes to be able to finish an entire 4th year during the summer or are you just saying that he might be as far along as Matthews was? Just wondering. I know that it is possible to come in with running start credits and take summer classes and all of that, I just don't know if Alberts has done it.

Zagricultural
04-04-2017, 08:43 PM
I really believe Collins will stay. Just not ready for the NBA yet. Too foul prone. Needs an entire season of 25-30 mpg, and he will be a lottery pick for sure. Plus he will be so much more likely to earn that second contract

cjm720
04-06-2017, 06:35 AM
Starters:
Perkins
Melson
Norvel
JW
Collins

First off bench: Tillie, Rui, Larsen, Kispert
Redshirt: Wade if we get a grad transfer guard.

We need a ball handler/shooter to replace NWG. Matthews brought great experience and shooting but I feel Norvell will be a better shooter and Silas will bring maturity as a senior leader. Collin decides to stay and becomes the number one pick in the NBA draft in 2018. NWG goes to work in Europe.

rennis
04-06-2017, 06:38 AM
Starters:
Perkins
Melson
Transfer #1
JW
Tillie

First off bench: Transfer #2, Rui, Larsen, Kispert
Redshirt: Wade if we get a grad transfer guard.


There is no way to make any sense of our starting lineup with NWG and Collins leaving without knowing who we might pickup this summer so I've edited your post for fun

TexasZagFan
04-06-2017, 06:51 AM
There is no way to make any sense of our starting lineup with NWG and Collins leaving without knowing who we might pickup this summer so I've edited your post for fun

Since when has "making any sense" ever held us back from our speculations/discussion? :lmao:

This thread indicates how smoothly we transition once the final buzzer of our final game has sounded.

rennis
04-06-2017, 07:53 AM
^ haha!

Also, I kind of get the feeling Kispert won't be the 9th or 10th man on next year's team. He's ranked by scout as the 4th best SF prospect in the West this year. He could see some big minutes next year depending on who comes and goes this summer.

I don't think he'd be a redshirt prospect, especially with missing this last season to injury - that would be two years in a row of no game competition and I don't see that as a good thing for his development.

OTOH I'm wrong a lot so you all should expect the opposite.

GonzagasaurusFlex
04-06-2017, 08:04 AM
Perkins (Wade)
Meslon (Kispert)
Norvell (Rui)
Tillie
Williams (Larsen)

I'd be thrilled to cheer on this team next season.
Two traditional transfers ( PG and PF) enjoy a year of Zag player development.

maynard g krebs
04-06-2017, 11:36 AM
Can't see the need for a guard. The three frosh perimeters are gonna come in as ready as Pangos/Bell. If Collins leaves there's a need for a 4th big.

No way Wade redshirts after being out of action for 2 years.

Point Perkins/Wade
Wings Melson/Norvell/Kispert/Rui

That's plenty unless another NWG caliber guy becomes available as a grad.

jazzdelmar
04-06-2017, 11:52 AM
Can't see the need for a guard. The three frosh perimeters are gonna come in as ready as Pangos/Bell. If Collins leaves there's a need for a 4th big.

No way Wade redshirts after being out of action for 2 years.

Point Perkins/Wade
Wings Melson/Norvell/Kispert/Rui

That's plenty unless another NWG caliber guy becomes available as a grad.


Hard for me to believe a fellow Philly in the 60s fan -- Hoy, Oakes, Courtin, Wally Jones, Melchionni, Wohl, Pawlak, Lynam, Curt Fromer, Matt Guokas Jr. -- could be satisfied with JP as the #1 PG. BTW, remember when his peeps were saying he would be gone to the NBA by now so why bother with a med redshirt?

maynard g krebs
04-06-2017, 12:30 PM
Hard for me to believe a fellow Philly in the 60s fan -- Hoy, Oakes, Courtin, Wally Jones, Melchionni, Wohl, Pawlak, Lynam, Curt Fromer, Matt Guokas Jr. -- could be satisfied with JP as the #1 PG. BTW, remember when his peeps were saying he would be gone to the NBA by now so why bother with a med redshirt?


Don't forget Fatty Taylor and Bernie Williams at LaSalle. But I only go back to '66 w/ Big 5 so don't know all those guys.

I thought Perkins did just fine in leading the team to two blowout "upsets" in the tourney as a fr. It's fine to disagree.

NWG almost lost the WVa game single handedly; 2/10 w/ 5 turnovers. Tries to take over games too much, which is fine in the WCC but doesn't work when you're 2/10 v WVA and 5/17 v Carolina. Shot in the mid 30's in the tourney with less than a 2/1 a/to ratio. Great rebounding guard though. I think the Zags will miss Karno/Collins more.

Perception bias seems to have people magnifying every mistake Perkins makes by a factor of 3. I don't get it. In reality, Stepp and Dickau turned the ball over about 50% more than Perkins does.

As Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse, opinions vary. (Some people keep advocating for a lineup that plays three bigs too). I don't think the coaches that made him a priority recruit have lost faith in him as some fans have. He was selfless enough to tell said coaches to bring in NWG, and that means a lot imo.

Zagcity
04-06-2017, 12:38 PM
Redshirt: Wade if we get a grad transfer guard.

No way in my opinion should Jesse redshirt

mgadfly
04-06-2017, 12:43 PM
Don't forget Fatty Taylor and Bernie Williams at LaSalle.

I thought Perkins did just fine in leading the team to two blowout "upsets" in the tourney as a fr. It's fine to disagree.

NWG almost lost the WVa game single handedly; 2/10 w/ 5 turnovers. Tries to take over games too much, which is fine in the WCC but doesn't work when you're 2/10 v WVA and 5/17 v Carolina. Shot in the mid 30's in the tourney with less than a 2/1 a/to ratio. Great rebounding guard though. I think the Zags will miss Karno/Collins more.

Perception bias seems to have people magnifying every mistake Perkins makes by a factor of 3. I don't get it. In reality, Stepp and Dickau turned the ball over about 50% more than Perkins does.

As Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse, opinions vary.

First, I think Perkins is going to be fine. He is better when he is expected to run the offense rather than completely defer to NWG. He will prove he is a big time player for us.

However, Perkins' assist rate (16.7) is lower than his turnover rate (24.3). By comparison, NWG had an assist rate of 25.8 and a turnover rate of 14.8. Stepp's worst year he had a turnover rate of 23.7 (a half percent lower than Perkins). But he had assist rates as high as 34.4. It isn't fair to throw the other guys (NWG, Stepp, Dickau) in with Perkins. Perkins has the turnovers of a primary ball handler and the assists of an off-guard.

From this season, there is really nothing in Perkins' stat-line that makes him comparable to the other three names you mentioned. 106 Orating. Blah. Poor rebounding numbers, even for a guard. PG turnovers with SG assists. A meager 1.7% steal rate.

He's going to be better. But that starts with him recognizing he needs a lot of work not forcing passes in transition, getting (way) too high with his dribble while pressured, and not telegraphing his passes to the post. Cut down on those sloppy mistakes and get a little more assertive within the offense and he is going to be fantastic. But pretending like he didn't have some real rough stretches this year won't do him any favors.

maynard g krebs
04-06-2017, 12:59 PM
First, I think Perkins is going to be fine. He is better when he is expected to run the offense rather than completely defer to NWG. He will prove he is a big time player for us.

However, Perkins' assist rate (16.7) is lower than his turnover rate (24.3). By comparison, NWG had an assist rate of 25.8 and a turnover rate of 14.8. Stepp's worst year he had a turnover rate of 23.7 (a half percent lower than Perkins). But he had assist rates as high as 34.4. It isn't fair to throw the other guys (NWG, Stepp, Dickau) in with Perkins. Perkins has the turnovers of a primary ball handler and the assists of an off-guard.

From this season, there is really nothing in Perkins' stat-line that makes him comparable to the other three names you mentioned. 106 Orating. Blah. Poor rebounding numbers, even for a guard. PG turnovers with SG assists. A meager 1.7% steal rate.

He's going to be better. But that starts with him recognizing he needs a lot of work not forcing passes in transition, getting (way) too high with his dribble while pressured, and not telegraphing his passes to the post. Cut down on those sloppy mistakes and get a little more assertive within the offense and he is going to be fantastic. But pretending like he didn't have some real rough stretches this year won't do him any favors.

I suspect I'm not the only one who has no context for understanding those numbers. Source and math explanation?

zag67
04-06-2017, 01:16 PM
I think we would be fine with our existing players. Depending on Collins and Nigel leaving we may pick up one or two more.
Pg- Perkins and wade
Sg- Melson and Norvelle
Sf- Kispert and Alberts
Pf- Rui and Tillie
C- Larsen and collins

Maybe not as solid as this year but a super set to start building the year

GonzagasaurusFlex
04-06-2017, 03:01 PM
I think we would be fine with our existing players. Depending on Collins and Nigel leaving we may pick up one or two more.
Pg- Perkins and wade
Sg- Melson and Norvelle
Sf- Kispert and Alberts
Pf- Rui and Tillie
C- Larsen and collins

Maybe not as solid as this year but a super set to start building the year

Can't fathom why you think Rui would either play the 4 or start ahead of Tillie

zag67
04-06-2017, 03:51 PM
I do not. I was just listing positions. Same with Larsen and collins and yes jw3 should be forest/center
Sorry. My bad

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 03:53 PM
I do not. I was just listing positions. Same with Larsen and collins
Sorry. My bad

Plus you completely forgot JW3.

zag67
04-06-2017, 03:57 PM
Thanks spy. Senior moment

Zag365
04-06-2017, 04:31 PM
Both Collins and NWG want the NBA. I'm sure with all the help they'll get evaluating their likely chances in this year's draft, they will make the smart decision as to whether this is the year to enter the draft or it would be better to wait until next year. If they believe this year is the right time to go, I'm happy for them. I want them to fulfill their goals and I don't know enough to second-guess or give them better advice than what they'll be getting. College ball is temporary in any event.

As for the rest of the players who won't have graduated, I hope all of them stay. I see roles for all of them and they have represented us well. If someone like Alberts or Edwards isn't happy with playing time and wants to move on, I'm good with that too. They've earned that option. What I don't think will happen and wouldn't want to see is our coaches trying to nudge guys out of the program for the purpose of opening up spots to recruit transfers or players who've revoked their LOIs. I think such a move would undermine our culture and break faith with guys that came here because we recruited them.

I want to see natural, not forced, attrition take place as it always has. Each year is a new team anyway. Once things shake out over the next few months, it will be more interesting to speculate about line-ups.

North Idaho Zag
04-06-2017, 04:35 PM
My Bold 10 man rotation prediction.

Pg- Perkins / Wade
Sg- Melson / Norvelle
Sf- Rui / Kispert
Pf- Williams / Tillie
C- Collins / Larsen

Add in a transfer big for the Olynyk Clinic and I'm good.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2017, 04:36 PM
Thanks spy. Senior moment

No biggie. I'm 44 and I have them all the time. LOL

cggonzaga
04-06-2017, 05:33 PM
Can't see the need for a guard. The three frosh perimeters are gonna come in as ready as Pangos/Bell. If Collins leaves there's a need for a 4th big.

No way Wade redshirts after being out of action for 2 years.

Point Perkins/Wade
Wings Melson/Norvell/Kispert/Rui

That's plenty unless another NWG caliber guy becomes available as a grad.

This is spot on maynard and I can't even see an argument against it. Josh and Silas will just fine at the 1 and 2 imo. They have tremendous experience at this point and nothing should faze them after playing in the national title game. I'd be shocked if anybody other than Norvell started at the 3. The guy could be our leading scorer next year (him or J3). We still have bigs but they're just a different kind of big; slender and athletic. Wouldn't hate a back to the basket type big if Collins left.

mgadfly
04-06-2017, 06:33 PM
I suspect I'm not the only one who has no context for understanding those numbers. Source and math explanation?

Kenpom.com

Check it out. Every statistic has an explanation on the site.

adoptedzag
04-06-2017, 06:50 PM
Kenpom.com

Check it out. Every statistic has an explanation on the site.

I believe that data is behind the paywall.

cjm720
04-06-2017, 09:08 PM
No way in my opinion should Jesse redshirt

I'm probably underestimating him.

cggonzaga
04-06-2017, 10:26 PM
I'm probably underestimating him.

I think you are. The kid was a mix of Kevin Pangos and Jimmer Fredette his senior year. Can't see a 20 year old redshirt. He may not have been playing the past 2 years but I'm sure he's been working on his game. Not to mention his body maturing. Do you remember the way your body changed between 18 and 20? My guess is he's fully ready to go.

GonzagasaurusFlex
04-07-2017, 02:50 AM
Both Collins and NWG want the NBA. I'm sure with all the help they'll get evaluating their likely chances in this year's draft, they will make the smart decision as to whether this is the year to enter the draft or it would be better to wait until next year. If they believe this year is the right time to go, I'm happy for them. I want them to fulfill their goals and I don't know enough to second-guess or give them better advice than what they'll be getting. College ball is temporary in any event.

As for the rest of the players who won't have graduated, I hope all of them stay. I see roles for all of them and they have represented us well. If someone like Alberts or Edwards isn't happy with playing time and wants to move on, I'm good with that too. They've earned that option. What I don't think will happen and wouldn't want to see is our coaches trying to nudge guys out of the program for the purpose of opening up spots to recruit transfers or players who've revoked their LOIs. I think such a move would undermine our culture and break faith with guys that came here because we recruited them.

I want to see natural, not forced, attrition take place as it always has. Each year is a new team anyway. Once things shake out over the next few months, it will be more interesting to speculate about line-ups.

Agree 100% and as much as I fully support whatever decision Zach Collins makes, I hope Zags don't start chasing "one-and-done" talent at the expense of the program's identity. I much prefer watching players develop year to year and getting to know them in a sense rather than roster overhaul every year.

Birddog
04-07-2017, 03:47 AM
Agree 100% and as much as I fully support whatever decision Zach Collins makes, I hope Zags don't start chasing "one-and-done" talent at the expense of the program's identity. I much prefer watching players develop year to year and getting to know them in a sense rather than roster overhaul every year.

According to Tommy LLoyd they didn't know Collins was a one and done, for that matter nobody knows yet if he is. The staff just thought Collins was a terrific player and fit the GU mold.

thespywhozaggedme
04-07-2017, 05:29 AM
According to Tommy LLoyd they didn't know Collins was a one and done, for that matter nobody knows yet if he is. The staff just thought Collins was a terrific player and fit the GU mold.

I just saw a mock on ESPN last night and they now have him going to Detroit at number 11. Sadly, I think he's gone. I hope I'm wrong.

TexasZagFan
04-07-2017, 06:06 AM
I just saw a mock on ESPN last night and they now have him going to Detroit at number 11. Sadly, I think he's gone. I hope I'm wrong.

Another first will be achieved, if that is the case: our first "one and done".

cjm720
04-07-2017, 11:07 AM
I think you are. The kid was a mix of Kevin Pangos and Jimmer Fredette his senior year. Can't see a 20 year old redshirt. He may not have been playing the past 2 years but I'm sure he's been working on his game. Not to mention his body maturing. Do you remember the way your body changed between 18 and 20? My guess is he's fully ready to go.

I do agree but if we bring in a guard transfer like I expect minutes will be tight. I guess we have this issue every year...a sign of a great program.