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View Full Version : We have unfinished business, Nigel and Zach plz comeback



ZagMan in Philly
04-03-2017, 08:30 PM
Please!
And thanks all for a great season.
Go Zags!

Zagcity
04-03-2017, 08:31 PM
Please!
And thanks all for a great season.
Go Zags!

Amen!

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 08:33 PM
If they both come back then we are a lock to be preseason number one. Sadly I think both are gone.

dhozagfan08
04-03-2017, 08:34 PM
+1. This is all I can think about to make me feel better right now.

zagsfanforlife
04-03-2017, 08:36 PM
Hope he comes back but the way he reacted at the end makes me think he's done.

CdAZagFan
04-03-2017, 08:36 PM
Listening to Nigel talk on ESPN and at the presser, he talks about leaving the door open for the next group of Zags to win it all (didn't really mention himself coming back to win it all) - hope that wasn't a telling statement.

Would love to see him and Collins back...

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 08:36 PM
Hope he comes back but the way he reacted at the end makes me think he's done.

Which one? The OP named two players.

ZagLawGrad
04-03-2017, 08:37 PM
Nigel has probably had enough of college, is my guess. Time to cash in.

zagsfanforlife
04-03-2017, 08:40 PM
Which one? The OP named two players.

Nigel

zag944
04-03-2017, 08:41 PM
I think Collins is gone and Nigel is 50/50. Whatever happens, I wish everyone the best and thing this program is better for their presence.

Hoopaholic
04-03-2017, 08:44 PM
I think Collins is gone and Nigel is 50/50. Whatever happens, I wish everyone the best and thing this program is better for their presence.

I am the other way

Goss gone

Collins has some work to do and be a lottery pick

But each need make personal decision and zag nation have solids players ready step in

Lurknomore
04-03-2017, 08:47 PM
I agree, the way Nigel was phrasing his answer makes me think he is gone too.

zagsfanforlife
04-03-2017, 08:48 PM
If both leave which I think happens we are still top 25.. just don't think a legit title contender. A lot can happen in an offseason though

NEC26
04-03-2017, 08:49 PM
I personally don't think Collins is leaving but who knows.

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 08:52 PM
I am the other way

Goss gone

Collins has some work to do and be a lottery pick

But each need make personal decision and zag nation have solids players ready step in

Selfishly, I want him to stay but I think Zack played himself into the lottery during this tournament. There's a four page thread on realgm about him and virtually every poster says that he's going to be a stud in the NBA and will be a lottery pick this year.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1510663&start=60

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 08:53 PM
If both leave which I think happens we are still top 25.. just don't think a legit title contender. A lot can happen in an offseason though

Agreed. I wouldnt be surprised to learn of three new additions to our roster within the next month or two.

Hoopaholic
04-03-2017, 08:55 PM
Selfishly, I want him to stay but I think Zack played himself into the lottery during this tournament. There's a four page thread on realgm about him and virtually every poster says that he's going to be a stud in the NBA and will be a lottery pick this year.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1510663&start=60

Full transparency I haven't watched an NBA game in years

He needs few more pounds in shoulders and needs to learn to play smarter imo which translate to another year for bball IQ
Like sabonis one more year and certainly lotto imo

But he and family have decisions to make

23dpg
04-03-2017, 08:56 PM
They gone:(.
Thanks for the great season.

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 08:59 PM
Full transparency I haven't watched an NBA game in years

He needs few more pounds in shoulders and needs to learn to play smarter imo which translate to another year for bball IQ
Like sabonis one more year and certainly lotto imo

But he and family have decisions to make

The NBA drafts almost solely on potential nowadays, many argue that that has watered down the product but that's another discussion for another time. Zach is twice as gifted as Sabonis ever will be and Domas is a stud. In my opinion, he's gone. But, on the positive, he's our first one and done so that's a new accomplishment for us.

ZagDaddy
04-03-2017, 09:02 PM
They gone:(.
Thanks for the great season.

Zach is not NBA ready, IMO. If he can't stay out of foul trouble in college what chance does he have in NBA? He has work to do to be a great NBA player. If he leaves now I'm afraid he'll have a career similar to Austin Daye's. He needs to come back.

zagsfanforlife
04-03-2017, 09:03 PM
Man Nigel's post game interview w Katz was tough to watch. What a stud. Love that kid. But ya I took he's gone from that.

Hoopaholic
04-03-2017, 09:09 PM
The NBA drafts almost solely on potential nowadays, many argue that that has watered down the product but that's another discussion for another time. Zach is twice as gifted as Sabonis ever will be and Domas is a stud. In my opinion, he's gone. But, on the positive, he's our first one and done so that's a new accomplishment for us.

Good people can agree to disagree that one and done is an accomplishment for college basketball

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 09:12 PM
Good people can agree to disagree that one and done is an accomplishment for college basketball

By "accomplishment", I mean that it's one more mid major hurdle that we have overcome. It puts us on par with the other elite programs in college basketball. And whether or not we like it is irelevant, coaches can use it as a recruiting tool.

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 09:13 PM
Man Nigel's post game interview w Katz was tough to watch. What a stud. Love that kid. But ya I took he's gone from that.

Yes, I just watched it and it was very emotional. The guy left his heart as well as his ankles on the floor. He will be missed.

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 09:14 PM
Zach is not NBA ready, IMO. If he can't stay out of foul trouble in college what chance does he have in NBA? He has work to do to be a great NBA player. If he leaves now I'm afraid he'll have a career similar to Austin Daye's. He needs to come back.

I don't think Austin ever truly had passion for the game of basketball he was just tall and very gifted. Zach has that fire in him and is tremendously gifted. If he's a lottery pick he's got to go.

CDC84
04-03-2017, 09:17 PM
Fran's view

https://twitter.com/franfraschilla/status/849102381962768385

Until I see Nigel and/or Zach on the 2017 mock list at draftexpress.com, it's not something I will even take seriously. I expect guys to test the waters. Why wouldn't you if invited?

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 09:22 PM
Fran's view

https://twitter.com/franfraschilla/status/849102381962768385

Until I see Nigel and/or Zach on the 2017 mock list at draftexpress.com, it's not something I will even take seriously. I expect guys to test the waters. Why wouldn't you if invited?

Some of the responses to his tweet were pretty funny. But if Zach is a lottery pick than Fran is right he won't be in the playoffs because his team will be so bad. LOL

ZagsGoZags
04-03-2017, 09:23 PM
I would love to see Nigel and Zach C come back. The downside of that is obvious, a couple of our elite players.
On the other side, however, if they leave it opens two scholarships we cannot otherwise offer. The way our recruiting has been lately, and the run this season, it is not unreasonable to think we might get some quality replacements for them.

Zags11
04-03-2017, 09:28 PM
I believe we saw the last of nwg. And he gave his heart. Damn.

Mantua
04-03-2017, 09:28 PM
i wish they'd come back to take Zach Norvell and Jacob Larson to the 2018 Final Four.

zagsfanforlife
04-03-2017, 09:30 PM
I believe we saw the last of nwg. And he gave his heart. Damn.

I'm just sad we didn't get to see him more than one year

Zags11
04-03-2017, 10:29 PM
I'm just sad we didn't get to see him more than one year

Same.

MDABE80
04-03-2017, 10:34 PM
http://www.espn.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/insider/post?id=16842

zagsfanforlife
04-03-2017, 10:38 PM
Abe, you're getting people's hopes up but the writing is on the wall. His post game comments, his reaction at the end of the game. This writer doesn't have inside info--- just guessing based on class year.

zagsfanforlife
04-03-2017, 10:38 PM
Plus it's an insider article.. if you can paste it in here that would be great!

MDABE80
04-03-2017, 10:54 PM
From 8:39 tonight.........Jeff Borzello.
Possible 2017-18 starting five:

G: Nigel Williams-Goss

G: Josh Perkins

G: Silas Melson

F: Johnathan Williams

F: Killian Tillie



Who is lost: There were two seniors in the Zags’ starting lineup this past season, former California transfer Jordan Mathews and mammoth center Przemek Karnowski. Mathews added a perimeter scoring punch for Gonzaga, leading the team in 3-point attempts and showing the ability to stretch a defense. Karnowski, a 7-foot-1 Poland native, was too big and strong for WCC opponents and averaged double figures his final three seasons in Spokane. There’s also freshman big man Zach Collins, a former McDonald’s All-American whom NBA scouts love. Chad Ford has him projected as a first-rounder, despite his coming off the bench in his first season. Collins’ stock could rise tremendously if he returns for his sophomore campaign.

Who is added: Gonzaga signed only one player in the 2017 class, but there are four new faces set to enter the rotation next season. The lone true freshman is Corey Kispert, a four-star power forward from Washington who has good size and length. He can score inside and out. Zach Norvell Jr., an ESPN 100 prospect in the 2016 class, redshirted this past season, but the left-handed guard can really shoot it and is crafty with the ball in his hands. Jacob Larsen, a Denmark native, suffered a knee injury in practice back in October and also redshirted. The 6-foot-10 big man will help replace Karnowski. Lastly, there’s point guard Jesse Wade, who committed in the 2015 class and then took a two-year Mormon mission. He was a four-star prospect coming out of high school.




What it means for next season: The strength of Gonzaga’s team next season will be its perimeter group, led by Williams-Goss, an All-American point guard. The former Washington transfer did it all for the Zags this season, leading the team in scoring and assists and also grabbing more than five rebounds per game. He consistently hit big shots for the Bulldogs. Alongside him is Perkins, a high-level passer who played more off the ball with the arrival of Williams-Goss. He greatly improved his outside shot as a sophomore. Melson could slide into the lineup after shooting it well coming off the bench. Williams, a former Missouri transfer, returns up front after leading the team in rebounding and scoring in double figures. If Collins leaves, coach Mark Few will need one of his underclassmen to step up; Tillie and Rui Hachimura are well-suited to fill that role. Expect a breakout campaign from one of them.

Trending: Level. Gonzaga isn’t going anywhere. The Zags might not win their first 29 games of the season again, but they will have by far the most talented team in the West Coast Conference and could be in the mix nationally if the underclassmen step up immediately.

maynard g krebs
04-03-2017, 11:09 PM
Kispert's a wing with the capability to be a stretch 4. Def not a PF as Borzello says. Can handle the ball in the open court, shoot the lights out and is an excellent, quick and decisive passer who reads the floor exceptionally well.

I'm plenty excited about next year's team even if Collins/NWG don't return. The bigs will be long, fast and athletic. With Rui, Kispert, and Norvell, there's size on the wings that we haven't seen before, and a ton of versatility as Rui/Kispert can both play the 3 or 4. I see next year's team as being able to press more and push tempo, and three outstanding shooters join the roster.

Even w/o the two thread topics' return(s), I think the second weekend of next year's tourney is highly probable, and anything beyond that is always gravy.

thespywhozaggedme
04-03-2017, 11:28 PM
As of right now, if both NWG and ZC leave, this is how I see our lineup:

PG: Josh, Wade
SG: Silas, Norvell
SF: Kispert, Rui
PF: JWIII, Killian
C: Larsen, ?

Of course as we all know this will not be remotely close to our final roster as I'm sure we will have one or two grad transfers and/or some highly rated freshman coming in. Either way next year should be pretty exciting too.

ZagaZags
04-03-2017, 11:31 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8jLJR9V0AAXUab.jpg

CodeCobalt
04-03-2017, 11:47 PM
IF Nigel, Williams and Collins STAY we are a title contender again next year, probably better than ever. If not, yea we'll come up with enough talent and a gameplan for that talent to make the dance again, but I don't see a repeat unless at least 2 of those 3 stay.

JAGzag
04-04-2017, 03:40 AM
If Collins leaves the entire Zag nation will be cheated. He is so gifted and talented but to only see him as a sub off the bench is a disappointment. I really thought we were a better team with him on the floor. Selfishly I really hope he returns!

Zagger
04-04-2017, 03:41 AM
Time will tell and time will heal. Moving on or staying are choices best made when a host of considerations can be weighed with all things proper on the scale. Reflections from this season will have better focus in the weeks to come. Mt K's choice to return paid off exceptionally (IHMO anyway) for both Przemek and the team. The success of the program this season will color next season's roster in ways we can't even fathom at this point in time. Whatever choices both Nigel and Zach make will be excellent ones as they have excellent characters. How well the team does in 17-18 ..... at this point last year no one could have foretold what this Zag bunch has achieved - not without a few pitchers full of Zag Koolaid :) What we do know is that the 17-18 Zags will be an admirable and well coached group. One Zag Nation will certainly be very proud of. This season the Zags passed a milestone. One from which spans a bit different of a view.
Go Zags!

ZagMan in Philly
04-04-2017, 04:39 AM
With all due respect to Nigel, this year's draft is deep in point guards, not so much next year.
Perhaps he will talk to Wiltjer about his experience about coming back for senior year and
Increase his draft status. I believe Wiltjer did that.
Who knows, if Nigel returns, Zach may consider coming back as well, and both will have
Double Double every game.
I have no doubt both would be gone, if we won last night.
They will be Rock Stars in a Redemption Tour.

gonzagafan62
04-04-2017, 05:06 AM
They aren't coming back

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2017, 05:10 AM
Brozello said on his twitter that piece was written before the tourney started and that he actually thinks NWG is gone. :(

Gonzdb8
04-04-2017, 05:17 AM
They aren't coming back

are you seeing something out there i'm missing? i understand the argument for ZC, although he's a borderline lottery pick right now and coming back next year could lock him into a top 5 pick, but NWG is currently a stretch to even get drafted. do you think he's leaving for europe? why do that instead of returning for his senior year and coming out next year in a much thinner draft?

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 05:22 AM
are you seeing something out there i'm missing? i understand the argument for ZC, although he's a borderline lottery pick right now and coming back next year could lock him into a top 5 pick, but NWG is currently a stretch to even get drafted. do you think he's leaving for europe? why do that instead of returning for his senior year and coming out next year in a much thinner draft?

He's got his degree, and he'll playing overseas, just don't know which continent. I think Nigel is at least a mid-2nd rounder, along with Karno. That's just my opinion, though. They'll both have to up their games considerably to succeed against the pros in the NBA.

I think Zach moved up to top 20 of the first round with his game against South Carolina.

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2017, 05:25 AM
Borzello said NWG stock will never be higher. Thinks he's gone

WallaWallaZag
04-04-2017, 05:39 AM
With all due respect to Nigel, this year's draft is deep in point guards, not so much next year.
Perhaps he will talk to Wiltjer about his experience about coming back for senior year and
Increase his draft status. I believe Wiltjer did that.
Who knows, if Nigel returns, Zach may consider coming back as well, and both will have
Double Double every game.
I have no doubt both would be gone, if we won last night.
They will be Rock Stars in a Redemption Tour.

i'm sorry, but wiltjer's stock didn't go anywhere...probably actually went down...he didn't have nearly as good a senior year as he did his junior year.

ZagMan in Philly
04-04-2017, 05:41 AM
Borderline said NWG stock will never be higher. Thinks he's gone

Coming back and working to improve his game for the NBA.
And show the NBA Scouts that he has that mental toughness to lead his team again.
Whatever choice he makes, we will wish Nigel well, Zach too.

Zagdawg
04-04-2017, 05:55 AM
Nigel post on Instagram:

nigelwg5 "No way I was ending the night without thanking Zag Nation, my teammates, coaches, and family. As a leader on this team I take the good, the bad, and everything in between. If you know me, then you know my heavy emotions right now are for all those affected by our loss. There's was nothing that I wanted more then to give everyone I just mentioned what you all deserve, a Championship. I thanked God this entire season for his many blessings and I would be wrong not to thank Him again tonight. This has been the best year of my life, with a team I am bonding with for life. I couldn't be more proud to represent Gonzaga University. Again I am sorry to everyone who is hurt by this loss but this journey has been nothiing short of amazing. #UnitedWeZag"

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 05:57 AM
With all due respect to Nigel, this year's draft is deep in point guards, not so much next year.
Perhaps he will talk to Wiltjer about his experience about coming back for senior year and
Increase his draft status. I believe Wiltjer did that.
Who knows, if Nigel returns, Zach may consider coming back as well, and both will have
Double Double every game.
I have no doubt both would be gone, if we won last night.
They will be Rock Stars in a Redemption Tour.

Wiltjer went undrafted. Just sayin'. :p

uZiGiZaG
04-04-2017, 06:07 AM
Personally I don't think NWG is ready for the NBA nor do I think he would get drafted if he does come out


I also think Collins is not ready for the NBA but may come out and end up being a late first round/early 2nd round pick and if he stays one more year he will be a Top 5 pick and will average 23 ppg, 12 rpg next year for us

uZiGiZaG
04-04-2017, 06:09 AM
Nigel post on Instagram:

nigelwg5 "No way I was ending the night without thanking Zag Nation, my teammates, coaches, and family. As a leader on this team I take the good, the bad, and everything in between. If you know me, then you know my heavy emotions right now are for all those affected by our loss. There's was nothing that I wanted more then to give everyone I just mentioned what you all deserve, a Championship. I thanked God this entire season for his many blessings and I would be wrong not to thank Him again tonight. This has been the best year of my life, with a team I am bonding with for life. I couldn't be more proud to represent Gonzaga University. Again I am sorry to everyone who is hurt by this loss but this journey has been nothiing short of amazing. #UnitedWeZag"

He GONE.

If he wasn't planning on leaving, he would mention coming back stronger next year and finishing the drill for Zag Nation..

Damn.. this one stings.. I thought he was definitely coming back until I saw his post game with Katz and now this

Birddog
04-04-2017, 06:21 AM
If i had to guess, I'd say that NW-G (based on his comments) is gone, most likely to a nice career in Europe. I just don't think he is an NBA player, close but not quite there. I think there is a 50/50 chance that Collins returns. If he gets high enough to be a lottery pick, then he's gone. I hope when he considers his options that he realizes that an 82 game season in the NBA is a tedious, hard job and for a rookie can be daunting. He'd do well to consult with Sabonis and others before he jumps if he is not a lotto pick. One more year in college could be a ton of fun for Zach and of course the GU fans. I can live with any outcome, the cupboard for next year isn't exactly bare.

Goshzagit
04-04-2017, 06:35 AM
I am the other way

Goss gone

Collins has some work to do and be a lottery pick

But each need make personal decision and zag nation have solids players ready step in

This.

Tough to think about or understand, yet NWG was gone after this season, regardless.

He's going to give the league a shot, no matter draft status.

Collins will declare, but no one knows his intentions. Not even Collins. He is considered a Top 20 pick, but there is chatter a particular GM views him as a Top 10 talent. All it takes is one.

He would be a Superstar, if he stays. If Zach develops a bit more hand strength & a face up game ala Olynyk, he is a 18 & 10 scorer at the college level.

Could you imagine if both returned? (Wont happen)

NWG
Perkins, Silas, Wade
Norvell, Rui, Jones
J3, Kispert, Tillie
Collins, Larsen

That is a damn near shoe-in for another potential Final 4.

Keep in mind, Norvell dominates offensively many practices.

Either way, I believe both will leave.

For sure NWG, yet have a feeling Collins ia truly 50-50.

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 06:35 AM
Personally I don't think NWG is ready for the NBA nor do I think he would get drafted if he does come out


I also think Collins is not ready for the NBA but may come out and end up being a late first round/early 2nd round pick and if he stays one more year he will be a Top 5 pick and will average 23 ppg, 12 rpg next year for us

No way he doesn't go top 20. But next year he could average 20/12, 1st Team AA and be top 5 pick in the draft; tough call.

Zagdawg
04-04-2017, 06:36 AM
Mentioned that they leave the door open for the next group of Zags to seal the deal-- doesn't say he will help win it next year.
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19072799

Goshzagit
04-04-2017, 06:56 AM
Did Lloyd sub consciously spill the beans or just stating his potential:


"We didn’t know he was a one-and-done,” Gonzaga assistant Tommy Lloyd said in the locker room when I asked him about Collins’ recruitment. “We thought this is a great program player for us who is a high-character kid who really wanted to develop in our system.”

LINK (https://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/zagoria-gonzaga-freshman-zach-collins-boosting-nba-draft-stock-final-four/amp/)

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 07:04 AM
Did Lloyd sub consciously spill the beans or just stating his potential:



LINK (https://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/zagoria-gonzaga-freshman-zach-collins-boosting-nba-draft-stock-final-four/amp/)

Just stating his potential, IMO. A lot of people seem to think he's ready for the NBA. All he needs is one GM with a first round pick that wants him. He'll find out soon enough at the combine.

Goshzagit
04-04-2017, 07:17 AM
Just stating his potential, IMO. A lot of people seem to think he's ready for the NBA. All he needs is one GM with a first round pick that wants him. He'll find out soon enough at the combine.

Good point.

But Collins will destroy the combine.

Some believe deepest draft ever. For instance, no UNC player projected in Top 20.

Collins is a Top 20 lock.

Chad Ford has him going #11 overall. Most consider him in 15-20 range.

Collins fouled out of 7 or 8 games this season, which is an easy problem to fix.

His ball control strenth is a concern, easy to swipe or steal ball.

However, he has length, touch, rim protection, motor, skill, & an improving shot.

He is most likely gone, but maybe he wants 1 more go...

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 07:30 AM
Good point.

But Collins will destroy the combine.

Some believe deepest draft ever. For instance, no UNC player projected in Top 20.

Collins is a Top 20 lock.

Chad Ford has him going #11 overall. Most consider him in 15-20 range.

Collins fouled out of 7 or 8 games this season, which is an easy problem to fix.

His ball control strenth is a concern, easy to swipe or steal ball.

However, he has length, touch, rim protection, motor, skill, & an improving shot.

He is most likely gone, but maybe he wants 1 more go...

Dallas Mavericks aren't intelligent enough to draft him. Considering Nerlen Noel's injury history, I think it would be a wise move. We know Zach can be productive on PT of 20 minutes a game.

hooter73
04-04-2017, 07:33 AM
You know what I hope for each of them?


No injuries.

They'll do what they'll do, I'm happy for them either way. Coulda woulda shoulda is stuff that gets thought of when you get hurt. No one wants that. These are good guys and they'll do well and represent themselves well no matter what.

johno
04-04-2017, 07:39 AM
I say it's all still up in the air. Now that the season is over Zach and Nigel will take the time to deliberate. I know this. If they leave, they certainly won't be at the center of things and will spend a lot of time in the seats watching others play the game they love.

EEzag
04-04-2017, 07:53 AM
I say it's all still up in the air. Now that the season is over Zach and Nigel will take the time to deliberate. I know this. If they leave, they certainly won't be at the center of things and will spend a lot of time in the seats watching others play the game they love.

Goss sure seems gone. Don't know about Collins. This is a deep draft this year, not so sure about next year. 50/50 Collins comes back. I'm not sure Goss has anything to gain by coming back, draft stock-wise. They will both test the waters and if it's warm enough jump in. Remember Sabonis was going to come back, but the draft was weak, got some GM advice, and decided the NBA was the way to go. You never know.

rijman
04-04-2017, 08:09 AM
1 season with NWG and Collins has been great, but 2 would be even better. We could have a one and done that didn't even start for us. We can discuss each players needs for improvement like we did with Austin Daye, but similar to Daye it likely all comes down to what they hear about their draft prospects.

Zagger
04-04-2017, 08:09 AM
What's great about staying or going for Nigel & Zach is that they know staying will be a solid choice with a place they love. I think that alone will guarantee that they make a smart choice should they decide to leave. In Nigel's case .... he may very well be the type of individual to excel as a coach. Considering that aspect .... GU's a darn good place to get to experience how quality coaching, recruiting, etc. is done. Nigel certainly has strong character, work ethic and smarts that quality coaching requires. In Zach's case ..... staying another year @ GU can't hurt his NBA chances + he may very well wish to get an education/degree. The NBA isn't the only avenue to success on this planet.

Coach Crazy
04-04-2017, 08:13 AM
Goss sure seems gone. Don't know about Collins. This is a deep draft this year, not so sure about next year. 50/50 Collins comes back. I'm not sure Goss has anything to gain by coming back, draft stock-wise. They will both test the waters and if it's warm enough jump in. Remember Sabonis was going to come back, but the draft was weak, got some GM advice, and decided the NBA was the way to go. You never know.

Some thoughts:

Nigel seems to be headed to declaring for the draft. But both he and Zach are going to be emotional and probably need some time to sort things out. Remember, we weren't even on Nigel's original first cut for schools to transfer to...so, let things play out. Initially, I'd say he's gone, though.

Regardless of whether or not you think Zach is ready for the NBA, there are coaches and development personnel who are paid to development and tweak players to fit the next level. So, having concerns and needs for development is going to be something that exists with every draft prospect. Some may feel that his development is outside a certain curve, and thus development at that level, with those resources would not prove beneficial. That's fine, and it may be accurate on some level, but it's all about what those scouts, executives, coaches, and trainers think.

Per some Synergy stats, Zach is doing some things that put him in the company of guys like DeAndre Jordan. He has some things to work on, but there are some underlying abilities that just jump off the charts. He's already got an understanding of shot blocking that some at the next level don't possess. Weight can be added at the next level. Moves can be added at the next level. He's a Top 10 talent. And yes, if even one GM plans on taking him in the Top 10 (and that information will get to Zach and his family), he'll be declaring.

Last but not least, on some level it doesn't matter what DraftExpress says. They aren't giving you a full picture. Pay attention to Sports Reference, Synergy, and other stat providers. Match that up with what you see. Then and only then should you take any input from DE.

Even if both leave, 2018 has the potential to be a better year than this one. Bottom line. What I would really like to see, outside of what we have talked about, is how this run will affect recruiting. Brandon Williams, Taeshon Cherry, and David Singleton are our priority targets. Getting all 3, plus say a Chase Jeter, would be astronomic. And yet another step to that level that keeps you in the Pantheon atop the mountain.

TexasZag
04-04-2017, 08:21 AM
Dallas Mavericks aren't intelligent enough to draft him. Considering Nerlen Noel's injury history, I think it would be a wise move. We know Zach can be productive on PT of 20 minutes a game.

I'd like to see him in Dallas, for sure. But with what the Mavs did to me with the Olynyk draft-and-trade, I don't trust them to keep him, even if they did draft him.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 08:28 AM
I'd like to see him in Dallas, for sure. But with what the Mavs did to me with the Olynyk draft-and-trade, I don't trust them to keep him, even if they did draft him.

The Mavericks are kidding themselves that they will have a competitive team as currently constructed. I was ready to buy a multi-game ticket package when Kelly was drafted, only to be traded seconds later for spare parts. One can only imagine him being Dirk's apprentice for 2-3 years.

Mavericks have no choice but to build through the draft. They aren't going to land a big time free agent, the word is out about Dallas. Harrison Barnes was a role player for the Warriors, and they didn't shed a tear when he departed. That was a good deal they made for Noel, but his injury history cries out for a competent backup, i.e. Zach Collins.

Zagger
04-04-2017, 08:28 AM
The print version of today's (4/4/17) USA Today has a story I can't find online titled ....
"Three returning starters keep Gonzaga on track"
In it it says Goss is "set to return". Just cuz it's in the paper ..... blah, blah, etc. but it is an interesting spin projecting another Final Four for GU...

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2017, 08:45 AM
Some thoughts:

Nigel seems to be headed to declaring for the draft. But both he and Zach are going to be emotional and probably need some time to sort things out. Remember, we weren't even on Nigel's original first cut for schools to transfer to...so, let things play out. Initially, I'd say he's gone, though.

Regardless of whether or not you think Zach is ready for the NBA, there are coaches and development personnel who are paid to development and tweak players to fit the next level. So, having concerns and needs for development is going to be something that exists with every draft prospect. Some may feel that his development is outside a certain curve, and thus development at that level, with those resources would not prove beneficial. That's fine, and it may be accurate on some level, but it's all about what those scouts, executives, coaches, and trainers think.

Per some Synergy stats, Zach is doing some things that put him in the company of guys like DeAndre Jordan. He has some things to work on, but there are some underlying abilities that just jump off the charts. He's already got an understanding of shot blocking that some at the next level don't possess. Weight can be added at the next level. Moves can be added at the next level. He's a Top 10 talent. And yes, if even one GM plans on taking him in the Top 10 (and that information will get to Zach and his family), he'll be declaring.

Last but not least, on some level it doesn't matter what DraftExpress says. They aren't giving you a full picture. Pay attention to Sports Reference, Synergy, and other stat providers. Match that up with what you see. Then and only then should you take any input from DE.

Even if both leave, 2018 has the potential to be a better year than this one. Bottom line. What I would really like to see, outside of what we have talked about, is how this run will affect recruiting. Brandon Williams, Taeshon Cherry, and David Singleton are our priority targets. Getting all 3, plus say a Chase Jeter, would be astronomic. And yet another step to that level that keeps you in the Pantheon atop the mountain.

Coach you really think next year they can be better than this year without Collins and goss??? Hmm

Coach Crazy
04-04-2017, 08:51 AM
Coach you really think next year they can be better than this year without Collins and goss??? Hmm

2018 (I am speaking in terms of the start of the season, not March). And that depends on who they add. If you have most or all of Rui, Larsen, Wade, Perkins, Tillie, and Kispert returning to go with the possibility of Chase Jeter, Brandon Williams, David Singleton, and Taeshon (or another signee that steps up because of our run)...yes, that team would be very much better than the one we have this year. Brandon Williams will be a McD's AA, Chase Jeter was one, and David Singleton is turning into a nice next-level combo guard prospect.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 08:56 AM
Coach you really think next year they can be better than this year without Collins and goss??? Hmm

I do, but it's not a slam dunk. We will have 5, maybe 6 of our 8 man rotation coming back. Mix in Rui and Larsen with Tillie and J3 as our new big rotation, and add Norvell and Alberts/Jeremy/Kispert/Wade (who knows?) to our guard rotation, perhaps have a five or six man rotation at the 1 - 3 spots.

Is that a 35+ win team? Too early to tell, IMO.

Hoopaholic
04-04-2017, 08:59 AM
Coach you really think next year they can be better than this year without Collins and goss??? Hmm

I do

We will have one of the most athletic wing players we have ever seen who will have an grasp on expectations and english language

We will have a substantially improved (projections have him lottery pick next year...which I do not believe we have EVER had preseason lottery pick type of player)

Perkins will be one year older and wiser as he is a student of the game

We will have series of three point shooting options both starting and coming off bench

We will have the beast in a power forward who will be drastically improved on free throws and I look for a 15 foot jumper inserted into his game

We have Larsen a Collins like player (will remain to be seen on rim protection)

We add a skilled backup guard who can shoot the lights out


I actually think we will push the pace much higher, will spread the floor and attack off dribble far more and defensively we will be very agggressive and look for trapping situations replacing pure rim protection with anticipated lane angles for steals

CDC84
04-04-2017, 09:09 AM
I believe we saw the last of nwg. And he gave his heart. Damn.

Why would he leave? He's going to be a 2nd rounder no matter what, and this draft is heavy in PG's. Education greatly matters to him. He has a chance to be preseason POY next season.

The only guy I am even slightly worried about is Zach, and if he does it, he has a 50%+ chance of being out of the league after a few years.

scott257
04-04-2017, 09:12 AM
I think it may take some time before we know. If Nigel's ankle injury will prevent him from working out, he may not have a good choice but to return. With respect to Collins, the decision from Nigel may impact his decision. From all I know (which sometimes isn't much), they are close. If Nigel returns, I think that may increase the possibility that Zach returns.

CDC84
04-04-2017, 09:15 AM
He GONE.

If he wasn't planning on leaving, he would mention coming back stronger next year and finishing the drill for Zag Nation..

Damn.. this one stings.. I thought he was definitely coming back until I saw his post game with Katz and now this

I bet the NBA was the furthest thing from his mind last night. He wasn't sitting there, calculating the appropriate thing to say. If he were Lonzo Ball, yeah, I understand........state the obvious.

Again, Nigel is a mid-2nd round pick at draftexpress.com as a 2018 player. If he goes this year, he may not get picked, or he will get picked at the back end. He might as well complete his masters and take out an insurance policy to cover injuries.

I also have to wonder if NBA execs might be concerned by all these ankle injuries he keeps sustaining.

Lots of guys are going to be announcing their entry into the draft, but until they sign with an agent, don't assume ANYTHING.

Ezag
04-04-2017, 09:16 AM
Goss is coming back, I feel it!

Gonzdb8
04-04-2017, 09:18 AM
Why would he leave? He's going to be a 2nd rounder no matter what, and this draft is heavy in PG's. Education greatly matters to him. He has a chance to be preseason POY next season.

The only guy I am even slightly worried about is Zach, and if he does it, he has a 50%+ chance of being out of the league after a few years.

thank you cdc for being the voice of reason here. nwg is not currently projected to be a lock even in the 2nd round. does anyone really think he'd leave school early to pursue a career in europe? his family doesn't seem like they are financially strapped and need him to make that jump. another year potentially boosts his nba stock in a PG light draft, and europe will still be there. also just seems like the kind of guy who doesn't want to go out like this. until i see something firm that suggests he's leaving the evidence tells me he'll be back (sorry, but you have to read a helluva lot into his remarks from last night to think they suggested at all that he's gone). if he does leave i wish him the best and will always think of him as one of the best players in GU history but i fully expect to see him lead the zags again next season. we shall see.

bettingman
04-04-2017, 09:27 AM
Goss is coming back, I feel it!

Emotions can certainly cloud perspectives, so let me give an outsider's opinion: Based on their draft stock, Collins would be crazy to stay. NWG would be crazy to leave. I suspect that is how things will go down.

Mr Vulture
04-04-2017, 09:33 AM
Emotions can certainly cloud perspectives, so let me give an outsider's opinion: Based on their draft stock, Collins would be crazy to stay. NWG would be crazy to leave. I suspect that is how things will go down.

What exactly is Collins draft stock? I have seen everywhere across the board and I don't think any of us know where he truly falls. I think it is hyperbolic to say he'd be crazy to stay. I'd actually argue that even if he'd be a mid to late first rounder he'd be better off coming back to work on his strength/game. With that said, I hope Zach and his family do what they believe is best for him...which I'm sure they will.

ZagsObserver
04-04-2017, 09:35 AM
NWG gave his all, was a tremendous leader and was totally bought in. Whatever decision he makes, we should be very thankful for what he did and helped GU achieve.

strikenowhere
04-04-2017, 09:39 AM
In my head, the only thing I see Zach really needing to work on is to stop committing stupid fouls, a problem which could easily be addressed in the NBA.

As for NWG - he's already got a degree, what does he gain by sticking around another year? He might not make an NBA roster, but there sure as heck are many pro teams outside the U.S. that would gladly pay him a salary to run a team.

Zags11
04-04-2017, 09:51 AM
Why would he leave? He's going to be a 2nd rounder no matter what, and this draft is heavy in PG's. Education greatly matters to him. He has a chance to be preseason POY next season.

The only guy I am even slightly worried about is Zach, and if he does it, he has a 50%+ chance of being out of the league after a few years.

I feel the way he was talking, he was closing this chapter of his life. I don't think he will be a starting NBA player but what do I know.

If I was Zach? I'd come back. He gets in too much foul trouble in limited time but I think Tommy spilled the beans that Zach is gone.

Goshzagit
04-04-2017, 10:06 AM
How in the world does Gonzaga have TWO early entries to the NBA, yet UNC hasn't had one for a few seasons?

UNC did have 2 seniors declare.

Insane.

It will be 3 early entry declarations since 2014.

More than the team that just went to back to back National Championship games.

Zags_Fanatic
04-04-2017, 10:14 AM
The way it is set up now it would be foolish for both of them to NOT declare and go through the process and combine. Hopefully both will come back, but there is no reason not to work out for the NBA teams and get feedback.

dhozagfan08
04-04-2017, 10:19 AM
Emotions can certainly cloud perspectives, so let me give an outsider's opinion: Based on their draft stock, Collins would be crazy to stay. NWG would be crazy to leave. I suspect that is how things will go down.

Even after what we saw Sabonis do? Coming back as a starter and playing himself into a lottery pick and a starting spot in the NBA? If next years draft was going to be stronger, then I would say he should go. . But with how much he can raise his stock going into a weaker draft, I think he should go the Sabonis route.

Saxon_zag
04-04-2017, 10:22 AM
Why would he leave? He's going to be a 2nd rounder no matter what, and this draft is heavy in PG's. Education greatly matters to him. He has a chance to be preseason POY next season.

The only guy I am even slightly worried about is Zach, and if he does it, he has a 50%+ chance of being out of the league after a few years.

If zach leaves this year you think there's a chance he would be out of the league by the time he's 22 or 23? Literally 0 chance barring catastrophic injury. Do hope he stays another year though.

As far as NWG you are right in that he's a 2nd rounder no matter what. So what's the point in coming back when he's already basically a known commodity? His limitations as far as size and athleticism at the next level are known so he isn't going to play himself into the lotto or 1st round during his senior year. Limited amount of earning years when it comes to being a professional basketball player and Nigel will already be 23 this year. 95% He's gone.

dhozagfan08
04-04-2017, 10:27 AM
Even after what we saw Sabonis do? Coming back as a starter and playing himself into a lottery pick and a starting spot in the NBA? If next years draft was going to be stronger, then I would say he should go. . But with how much he can raise his stock going into a weaker draft, I think he should go the Sabonis route.

I think we would all agree with this.

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 10:38 AM
I think we would all agree with this.

Did you just quote yourself? :roll:

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 10:43 AM
Did you just quote yourself? :roll:

A bit O/T, but I've felt the need on a couple of occasions to put myself on "ignore."

Zagger
04-04-2017, 10:52 AM
A bit O/T, but I've felt the need on a couple of occasions to put myself on "ignore."
Ha! Me too (not you but myself).
There can be humor after a loss :)

deathchina
04-04-2017, 10:56 AM
In my opinion Collins is probably gone because it is looking more and more likely that he is a lottery pick or at worst, mid 1st rounder. Guys almost never come back once they reach that level in the draft. There are of course always exceptions.

If Collins goes in the lottery any team that takes him will be at least somewhat committed to his development and growth as a player. He will be given opportunities and support from the organization. The idea that players are done evolving and improving once they hit the NBA is misguided. In some ways, they actually have a better chance of improving in the NBA than they would in college due to the unlimited resources available to them. No time restraints on coaches spending time working with them. No classes to attend or other "distractions". However, the NBA can ruin a player's confidence pretty dang quickly. Sometimes it's better to build up your self esteem being "the guy" in college.

It all hinges on what type of promise Zach gets I think. Draft position is so huge. Not just a financial issue, but also a commitment issue. Look at what happening with Sabonis this season. He's ranked 347 out of like 350 qualified players in the NBA in PER, making him literally, one of the most inefficient (ineffective) players in the entire league. Yet OKC keeps marching him out there and giving him opportunities on a team making a playoff push. No way that happens if he had been picked in the late first round (well, in Sabonis' case they traded away Serge Ibaka for him and Oladipo).

thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2017, 10:56 AM
A bit O/T, but I've felt the need on a couple of occasions to put myself on "ignore."

I did that several years ago. I figured that if my wife could ignore me, maybe I should too.

basketballzag
04-04-2017, 11:19 AM
Why would he leave? He's going to be a 2nd rounder no matter what, and this draft is heavy in PG's. Education greatly matters to him. He has a chance to be preseason POY next season.

The only guy I am even slightly worried about is Zach, and if he does it, he has a 50%+ chance of being out of the league after a few years.

This is the most accurate post on the subject of those two.

CarolinaZagFan
04-04-2017, 11:34 AM
How in the world does Gonzaga have TWO early entries to the NBA, yet UNC hasn't had one for a few seasons?

UNC did have 2 seniors declare.

Insane.

It will be 3 early entry declarations since 2014.

More than the team that just went to back to back National Championship games.

Maybe they don't want to take the pay cut? Despite having countless 5 star burger boys, UNC hasn't had a one and done player since Brandon Wright in 2007.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2017, 11:43 AM
Maybe they don't want to take the pay cut? Despite having countless 5 star burger boys, UNC hasn't had a one and done player since Brandon Wright in 2007.

Roy would say it's because the academic scandal has hurt recruiting. Imagine the horror of having to survive in the ACC with only a few Burger Boys playing for you every year.

SwainZag
04-04-2017, 11:53 AM
So much speculation right now.

You have to imagine that NWG is going to talk to agents, former players, coaches, etc before even coming up with any decision. Would a possible guarantee of a 2nd round pick do it for him? Staying allows him to finish his masters and play in the national spotlight with a very good team, but could he possibly build on his draft stock or is this the peak for him? This year is a well stocked class, especially for guards, so I do think he has a lot to think about.

As for Zach, there are so many factors. We all know that Zach has only been a starter for 1 season in his career after sitting behind Zimmerman and Jeter in HS before starting his senior year and now behind Shem this year. He has received a lot of national attention in the past weeks and rightfully so as he has been great. Would getting picked just outside the lottery be enough for him to consider going Pro? Would he want a year of being in the spotlight? Hell, would he want another year of college life before going pro? Could he start in the NBA right now or be a role player off the bench? How much could he improve his draft stock?

My overly optimistic guesses.....both test the waters and neither hire agents. NWG waits until about the last possible time and announces he is coming back. Scouts can't guarantee Collins that he will land in the Top 15 and is convinced with starting minutes while adding some muscle to his frame that he has a realistic shot at being a Top 10 and possibly Top 5 in 2018 and he chooses to return as well.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-04-2017, 12:05 PM
If zach leaves this year you think there's a chance he would be out of the league by the time he's 22 or 23? Literally 0 chance barring catastrophic injury.

My buddies who follow the NBA closely say Jhalil Okafor — 3rd overall pick not too long ago — is well on his way to being out of the league. The NBA can chew you up and spit you out. Hope Zach stays, but you gotta cash in your ticket when you have a chance.

UCLAgraduate
04-04-2017, 12:12 PM
NWG has been talking about going pro since before he enrolled at UW. Once at UW, I think he realized his ceiling wasn't the NBA and that it would be a good idea to, you know, win games and receive real coaching. I'd be surprised if he left, although his stock won't be higher than it is now. Collins is definitely gone. [/unsolicited outsider opinion]

Mr Vulture
04-04-2017, 12:15 PM
I feel the way he was talking, he was closing this chapter of his life. I don't think he will be a starting NBA player but what do I know.

If I was Zach? I'd come back. He gets in too much foul trouble in limited time but I think Tommy spilled the beans that Zach is gone.

I missed what Tommy said....what did he say?? Link??

dhozagfan08
04-04-2017, 12:18 PM
Did you just quote yourself? :roll:

Yes I did, lol. Quoted the wrong one, having trouble with my phone. Was supposed to be directed at the post about both testing the waters with the new combine/draft rules.

TexasZag
04-04-2017, 12:26 PM
In my head, the only thing I see Zach really needing to work on is to stop committing stupid fouls, a problem which could easily be addressed in the NBA.

As for NWG - he's already got a degree, what does he gain by sticking around another year? He might not make an NBA roster, but there sure as heck are many pro teams outside the U.S. that would gladly pay him a salary to run a team.

Isn't NWG working on his MA? If so, why isn't that a worthy pursuit and motivation to use his last year of eligibility? In terms of employment opportunities (assuming something more mainstream than pro basketball player), bachelor's degrees these days are about as valuable as high school diplomas were back in the 60's and 70's, so an advanced degree is another feather in the cap.

U Zig, I Zag
04-04-2017, 12:41 PM
I think NWG stays. I don't think he plays his way into a lottery pick, but he could become really, really good and super consistent and make an NBA roster by being a fully rounded player. Not that he isn't now, but if he left (with NBA as goal) I think he sits, a lot. D-League, etc. Dedicated, team players and super seniors often get another look.

Collins is a tough one. For GU reasons I hope he stays. Good chance he is pre-season AA, talked about all year, puts up big numbers. Probably top 10 pick, at least. If he is done with school though, and feels he is ready, he'll go. Looking at draft boards, he is >10-20 guy this year. Not sure what that means money-wise.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2017, 12:43 PM
NWG is gone, no way he plays a 5th year vs WCC talent. He will hope for a FA signing or go overseas and make half a mil type money. Needs to start honing his craft; Portland, Pep, etc not the place for that.

ZC another story. He's prob 50-50 but his best pal is leaving and the team will be weaker. Perform at the combine and he's gone.

Both gone, Zags will dip. A relative term, of course. Look for 25-28 wins and plenty of new faces.

Saxon_zag
04-04-2017, 12:58 PM
Isn't NWG working on his MA? If so, why isn't that a worthy pursuit and motivation to use his last year of eligibility? In terms of employment opportunities (assuming something more mainstream than pro basketball player), bachelor's degrees these days are about as valuable as high school diplomas were back in the 60's and 70's, so an advanced degree is another feather in the cap.

Which he can come back and finish at any point! At 23 the clock is really ticking on your pro basketball potential. I think 95% nigel is gone and Collins most likely tests the waters and stays.

Mr Vulture
04-04-2017, 01:01 PM
NWG is gone, no way he plays a 5th year vs WCC talent. He will hope for a FA signing or go overseas and make half a mil type money. Needs to start honing his craft; Portland, Pep, etc not the place for that.

ZC another story. He's prob 50-50 but his best pal is leaving and the team will be weaker. Perform at the combine and he's gone.

Both gone, Zags will dip. A relative term, of course. Look for 25-28 wins and plenty of new faces.

I believe that he also would be playing versus a pretty legit OOC Schedule as well as the NCAA tournament. I don't think even 1% of his decision will include thought about having to face WCC talent again....

Zags11
04-04-2017, 01:15 PM
I missed what Tommy said....what did he say?? Link??

Somebody in here posted "we didn't know he was a 1 and done. We thought we would build him." I believe in a different thread.

CDC84
04-04-2017, 02:41 PM
Again, when the announcements come out that say such and such a guy is going to the draft, notice if there is anything about hiring an agent. I have seen message boards go through 3 months of fans assuming that a player of theirs was gone only to not have read the fine print that he didn't hire an agent. Then he returns.

I wouldn't put any stock in anything that Nigel said in high school as being the truth. That was probably at a time when he thought he was a future lottery pick or something.

He's a 2nd round pick in the 2018 draft at draftexpress.com, and as Fran said last night, did nothing to enhance his stock.

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2017, 03:40 PM
Again, when the announcements come out that say such and such a guy is going to the draft, notice if there is anything about hiring an agent. I have seen message boards go through 3 months of fans assuming that a player of theirs was gone only to not have read the fine print that he didn't hire an agent. Then he returns.

I wouldn't put any stock in anything that Nigel said in high school as being the truth. That was probably at a time when he thought he was a future lottery pick or something.

He's a 2nd round pick in the 2018 draft at draftexpress.com, and as Fran said last night, did nothing to enhance his stock.

But what can he do next year to improve his stock? He still has athletic limitations, is not getting any taller or bigger, and is already almost as refined as can be. He just led them to the national championship game, was a All American, and next year will be 1 year older. Do i want him to come back?? Heck yes... but devils advocate to you saying second round, and he didnt improve his stock... do you really think he can make his way into the 1st round, a year older?

ZagMan in Philly
04-04-2017, 03:56 PM
But what can he do next year to improve his stock? He still has athletic limitations, is not getting any taller or bigger, and is already almost as refined as can be. He just led them to the national championship game, was a All American, and next year will be 1 year older. Do i want him to come back?? Heck yes... but devils advocate to you saying second round, and he didnt improve his stock... do you really think he can make his way into the 1st round, a year older?

Buddy Heild, Josh Hart, both came back and improved their status...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2016/10/19/villanova-wildcats-josh-hart-repeat-national-title-jay-wright/92416838/

Chicken Ball
04-04-2017, 05:23 PM
The one thing I can think of is: become a better outside shooter, which would mean maybe also becoming more than just a set shooter. Work on shooting on the bounce, getting the shot off quicker, etc.

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2017, 05:24 PM
Buddy Heild, Josh Hart, both came back and improved their status...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2016/10/19/villanova-wildcats-josh-hart-repeat-national-title-jay-wright/92416838/

Hart is still not a first rounder and hield is way more athletic than NWG

MileHigh
04-04-2017, 05:42 PM
NWG is gone, no way he plays a 5th year vs WCC talent. He will hope for a FA signing or go overseas and make half a mil type money. Needs to start honing his craft; Portland, Pep, etc not the place for that.

ZC another story. He's prob 50-50 but his best pal is leaving and the team will be weaker. Perform at the combine and he's gone.

Both gone, Zags will dip. A relative term, of course. Look for 25-28 wins and plenty of new faces.

NWG won't earn anywhere close to 500K n Europe next season.
First year American players, with no NBA experience,in the upper echelon European leagues can expect to make between 1500 and 5000 per week for a 5 month season. Team also pays for their apartment and most meals so if a player is frugal he can save the majority of his salary. A player with a few years NBA experience or a guy that has proven himself in Europe for a few years are the Americans that can demand top dollar

Gonzdb8
04-04-2017, 05:51 PM
But what can he do next year to improve his stock? He still has athletic limitations, is not getting any taller or bigger, and is already almost as refined as can be. He just led them to the national championship game, was a All American, and next year will be 1 year older. Do i want him to come back?? Heck yes... but devils advocate to you saying second round, and he didnt improve his stock... do you really think he can make his way into the 1st round, a year older?

a weak draft class in 18 guarantees his stock improves. there just won't be nearly as many good players to draft ahead of him. if he leaves this year he's playing in europe. if he stays he could be a high 2nd round pick next year, perhaps even 1st round. so i just don't get the motivation to leave. he doesn't need the money (that i know of), he values education and could finish his graduate degree making him that much more marketable when he finishes a pro career, he could realistically lead this team back for another shot at the title (surely something like that still means something even in a world consumed with making money as soon as possible) and if the nba is still a goal he's more likely to achieve it if he sits this draft out and returns next year. he just doesn't strike me as the type to be woo'd by half a mill playing in the euro league when redemption and a legit shot at getting drafted could be a season away.

WallaWallaZag
04-04-2017, 09:13 PM
Buddy Heild, Josh Hart, both came back and improved their status...

as far as i know...neither hart or hield were redshirt seniors...nigel is already old for a prospect.

many people keep talking about improving his game to up his stock...if he had a jump to make it would have already happened during his redshirt year...he slightly improved in all facets of his game but didn't truly elevate any one important aspect.

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2017, 09:50 PM
I do find it interesting that ESPN, SI, CBS, and Foxsports all have us in their early top 10 for next year... They arent doing that unless they think at least one of NWG or Collins are coming back.

For the record, i agree with most using the rationale, "why would anyone leave to be a borderline second round pick?".. it would be a rare circumstance if he does. I just am basing my opinion on his reaction at the end of the game and his interview with Katz.

WallaWallaZag
04-04-2017, 09:59 PM
For the record, i agree with most using the rationale, "why would anyone leave to be a borderline second round pick?"

...because there's probably a 90% chance you will be in the exact same position the following year???

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2017, 10:09 PM
...because there's probably a 90% chance you will be in the exact same position the following year???

So why not enjoy one more year of college, take out an insurance policy and help your team compete for the national title again this year

WallaWallaZag
04-04-2017, 10:19 PM
So why not enjoy one more year of college, take out an insurance policy and help your team compete for the national title again this year

...because you've already spent 4 years in college and have your degree
...because you're extremely smart and the smart business decision would be to go pro now...as much as you love gonzaga your own career is more important than the school.
...because you grew up a baller with nba dreams and it's time to try and fulfill your dream (the average person doesn't get this aspect)

Zagceo
04-04-2017, 10:20 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/ncaa-tournament-nba-draft-prospect-guide-national-championship-game-5851/

TexasZagFan
04-05-2017, 04:51 AM
...because you've already spent 4 years in college and have your degree
...because you're extremely smart and the smart business decision would be to go pro now...as much as you love gonzaga your own career is more important than the school.
...because you grew up a baller with nba dreams and it's time to try and fulfill your dream (the average person doesn't get this aspect)

I think Wiltjer's contract with the Rockets is at least $250K per year, with at least one guaranteed year. My first year out of college, I was making less than $1000 a month...my base pay was $666 per month.

After 4 years of college, I was ready to move on and see the world. Gonzaga gave me that opportunity. In the 12 months following graduation, I had been to El Paso, Fort Benning GA (and 5 jumps from a perfectly good airplane), Bob's Candy factory in Albany, GA (courtesy of alum Greg McCormack), Germany, and Athens, Greece and Crete. That was a pretty exciting year.

While in El Paso, had a chance to see Rick Sweet during their series with the Diablos, he was with Amarillo (Padres franchise).

Zagger
04-05-2017, 05:17 AM
When Wiltjer and Sabonis moved on ......... just saying .....

Personally ... hoping both Nigel and Zach remain in Spokane as Zags ... for their benefits. And, they sure are welcome here! If they want to leave I'd cheer them on and wish them the best of success. What I'm not concerned about is how well the Zags do in 2017-18. They'll be the best team they can be with the guys they have. They'll be a class act who'll more than likely achieve a respectful seed in the NCAA Tournament. The future is pretty darn rosey for GU basketball and will contain and maintain a cast to keep us all exceptionally proud of the program. Go Zags!

Mr Vulture
04-05-2017, 08:49 AM
...because you've already spent 4 years in college and have your degree
...because you're extremely smart and the smart business decision would be to go pro now...as much as you love gonzaga your own career is more important than the school.
...because you grew up a baller with nba dreams and it's time to try and fulfill your dream (the average person doesn't get this aspect)

1. He may have his degree but why not get a FREE Masters Degree which he doesn't have? We all know education is important to him.
2. I don't know how the smart business decision is to go pro now when you will get a non guaranteed opportunity, at best, either way..what is the value to Nigel
3. This will still happen, likely with the same odds of accomplishment, whether he stays or goes

I'm not going to sit here and act like or say I know what is best for Nigel. What I will say is that the opportunity for the NBA will be there next year too, with the same level of compensation or possibly better. On the flip side, he can continue his education and experience one more year with his brothers. Ultimately, it's up to Nigel, his family, and we should support whatever he decides is best for him.

jazzdelmar
04-05-2017, 08:58 AM
I do find it interesting that ESPN, SI, CBS, and Foxsports all have us in their early top 10 for next year... They arent doing that unless they think at least one of NWG or Collins are coming back.

For the record, i agree with most using the rationale, "why would anyone leave to be a borderline second round pick?".. it would be a rare circumstance if he does. I just am basing my opinion on his reaction at the end of the game and his interview with Katz.

Sad commentary on sports journalism.....not a glimmering hope, unfortunately..

VaBeachZAG
04-05-2017, 09:02 AM
1. He may have his degree but why not get a FREE Masters Degree which he doesn't have? We all know education is important to him.
2. I don't know how the smart business decision is to go pro now when you will get a non guaranteed opportunity, at best, either way..what is the value to Nigel
3. This will still happen, likely with the same odds of accomplishment, whether he stays or goes

I'm not going to sit here and act like or say I know what is best for Nigel. What I will say is that the opportunity for the NBA will be there next year too, with the same level of compensation or possibly better. On the flip side, he can continue his education and experience one more year with his brothers. Ultimately, it's up to Nigel, his family, and we should support whatever he decides is best for him.

Completely agree. I seriously doubt NWG's NBA prospects will be any worse next year (could maybe be a bit better-who knows). The singular real question here is whether he wishes to spend one more year in college at this point in his life, and he is the only one who can answer that.

hockeyzag
04-05-2017, 09:07 AM
This is how I see their respective situations.

NWG has his bachelor's already, has spent 4 years in school, and has nothing left to prove in the college game. Spending another year at Gonzaga would seem to only help his NBA draft stock in that this year's draft is so much more competitive than next year's. Since his #1 priority seems to be getting to the NBA, being drafted in 2018 seems like a better choice. However if he can get drafted in 2017 late in the 2nd round, there would really be no point to staying as he probably wouldn't jump a whole lot higher in 2018. Or he could not get drafted and surely get a chance to show his stuff in summer league like Wiltjer did, hoping to stick with an NBA team that believes his skills and smarts outweigh his athletic limitations.

Collins' situation is much more cut and dry. He either becomes Gonzaga's first one and done, gets drafted somewhere in the first round, maybe top 15 but probably 15-25, and tries to stick with an NBA team willing to develop him. OR he decides to return for one season at Gonzaga where he spends the summer with Travis Knight working out like crazy, preparing for next year where he will be our star. He gets a chance to show on a national stage what he can do as a starter and the main option on a nationally ranked team. He would surely be close to averaging a double double and would be in the running as a 1st team All American. This would provide him an opportunity to work his way into the much weaker 2018 draft's top 10, possibly top 5. As we all know, there's a huge difference in being drafted in the first round compared to being drafted in the lottery.

For NWG, I'm just not sure staying would benefit him enough as it relates to the NBA or professional basketball anywhere.

For Collins, I think staying would undoubtably be the best decision for his future in the NBA.

Whatever their decisions, I'm sure our staff will lay out a game plan for both to allow them to see everything clearly and make the best choice.

Reborn
04-05-2017, 09:19 AM
Why would he leave? He's going to be a 2nd rounder no matter what, and this draft is heavy in PG's. Education greatly matters to him. He has a chance to be preseason POY next season.

The only guy I am even slightly worried about is Zach, and if he does it, he has a 50%+ chance of being out of the league after a few years.

I agree with all you have posted. Regarding NWG's interview after the game, I also do not see anything in it that indicates he's going pro. I see a man, a player, who loves Gonzaga and ZagNation and will be back to lead us to a championship. He sounded like he feels that he let people down, and will be back next year to rectify that. What does he have to gain by returning. POY, 1st team All-American, possible championship title in March/April, and once again taking ZagNation on an even more incredible journey. And has been stated, a Master's Degree from Gonzaga University. Also being at Gonzaga one more year and those who went there know that that is a great experience in itself.

Regarding Zach Collins, I think he would be wise to return to GU and play one more year. I also think he will do that.

Saxon_zag
04-05-2017, 09:28 AM
This is how I see their respective situations.

NWG has his bachelor's already, has spent 4 years in school, and has nothing left to prove in the college game. Spending another year at Gonzaga would seem to only help his NBA draft stock in that this year's draft is so much more competitive than next year's. Since his #1 priority seems to be getting to the NBA, being drafted in 2018 seems like a better choice. However if he can get drafted in 2017 late in the 2nd round, there would really be no point to staying as he probably wouldn't jump a whole lot higher in 2018. Or he could not get drafted and surely get a chance to show his stuff in summer league like Wiltjer did, hoping to stick with an NBA team that believes his skills and smarts outweigh his athletic limitations.

Collins' situation is much more cut and dry. He either becomes Gonzaga's first one and done, gets drafted somewhere in the first round, maybe top 15 but probably 15-25, and tries to stick with an NBA team willing to develop him. OR he decides to return for one season at Gonzaga where he spends the summer with Travis Knight working out like crazy, preparing for next year where he will be our star. He gets a chance to show on a national stage what he can do as a starter and the main option on a nationally ranked team. He would surely be close to averaging a double double and would be in the running as a 1st team All American. This would provide him an opportunity to work his way into the much weaker 2018 draft's top 10, possibly top 5. As we all know, there's a huge difference in being drafted in the first round compared to being drafted in the lottery.

For NWG, I'm just not sure staying would benefit him enough as it relates to the NBA or professional basketball anywhere.

For Collins, I think staying would undoubtably be the best decision for his future in the NBA.

Whatever their decisions, I'm sure our staff will lay out a game plan for both to allow them to see everything clearly and make the best choice.

Agreed totally on both. People are kidding themselves with NWG. Not improving his draft stock with another year. You heard his language post-game.

Collins is in the 15-25 range but could solidify top 10 status with another year of development and a weaker overall draft class in 2018 compared to 2017

Zagceo
04-05-2017, 09:33 AM
http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?56900-Come-Back-Domas!-Take-us-to-the-FF!&highlight=Domas+don%27t+leave

TexasZagFan
04-05-2017, 09:38 AM
http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?56900-Come-Back-Domas!-Take-us-to-the-FF!&highlight=Domas+don%27t+leave

LOL, though the shoes seem to be bigger to fill with each departure, I can't wait to see who is the "next man up."

JohnOGU
04-05-2017, 10:20 AM
Didn't read the entire thread... but with that being said, I can only hope that they will unite behind the common goal of winning the National Championship next year. That's the only way that I see them both coming back. If they do, we are a certain favorite. Fingers crossed.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 10:35 AM
Going back to Zach Collins and his future.....here's a legit question:

Is there a current NBA star who was one and done who wasn't an exceptional college player before he went pro? What do I mean by an exceptional college player? A starting player who played major minutes and who put up big numbers. A guy who was at least one of the top 2 scorers on his team. A guy who made some All American teams. A guy who played on a team that won a lot of games.

Anyone have any names?

23dpg
04-05-2017, 10:37 AM
Going back to Zach Collins and his future.....here's a legit question:

Is there a current NBA star who was one and done who wasn't an exceptional college player before he went pro? What do I mean by an exceptional college player? A starting player who played major minutes and who put up big numbers. A guy who was at least one of the top 2 scorers on his team. A guy who made some All American teams. A guy who played on a team that won a lot of games.

Anyone have any names?

Does Marvin Williams count?

zagfan24
04-05-2017, 10:40 AM
Going back to Zach Collins and his future.....here's a legit question:

Is there a current NBA star who was one and done who wasn't an exceptional college player before he went pro? What do I mean by an exceptional college player? A starting player who played major minutes and who put up big numbers. A guy who was at least one of the top 2 scorers on his team. A guy who made some All American teams. A guy who played on a team that won a lot of games.

Anyone have any names?

Devin Booker is the only name that comes immediately to mind. There may be a few others. Your point is well taken though, and I'd argue it's even more true for big men.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 11:01 AM
Devin Booker is the only name that comes immediately to mind. There may be a few others. Your point is well taken though, and I'd argue it's even more true for big men.

Exactly, Booker was the one name that came to mind (averaging 22 PPG with the Suns), but he played on a extraordinarily talented team where no one played more than about 20MPG. If he had played at, say, Vanderbilt, he may have been a college star.

There has to be a few other guys out there, but my brain isn't working.

Zags_Fanatic
04-05-2017, 11:04 AM
Going back to Zach Collins and his future.....here's a legit question:

Is there a current NBA star who was one and done who wasn't an exceptional college player before he went pro? What do I mean by an exceptional college player? A starting player who played major minutes and who put up big numbers. A guy who was at least one of the top 2 scorers on his team. A guy who made some All American teams. A guy who played on a team that won a lot of games.

Anyone have any names?

Trey Lyles would be the last one. Lyles, Booker and Williams are the three 6th man/lottery picks that come to mind.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 11:07 AM
Lyles is only averaging 6.3 ppg for the Jazz. It needs to be a NBA star. Booker definitely qualifies by averaging 22 ppg. Same with Marvin Williams.....good, solid NBA player, but not a star. Career 11 ppg scorer is not quite enough.

Mr Vulture
04-05-2017, 11:24 AM
Sad commentary on sports journalism.....not a glimmering hope, unfortunately..

Another insightful and positive post from Jazz....

Alum08
04-05-2017, 11:29 AM
Lyles is only averaging 6.3 ppg for the Jazz. It needs to be a NBA star. Booker definitely qualifies by averaging 22 ppg. Same with Marvin Williams.....good, solid NBA player, but not a star. Career 11 ppg scorer is not quite enough.
DeAndre Jordan?

upan8th
04-05-2017, 11:33 AM
Cautionary tale for ZC: Stephen Zimmerman, whom Zach played behind in HS, after leaving UNLV early, and being the 41st or 42nd selection in last years's draft, is languishing on the bench in Orlando, not able to get minutes even when the Magic's starting center is out with an injury, and late season games mean nothing. He actually spent the bulk of the season in NBADL. Zach, of course, is more skilled and versatile than Stephen at this point. But how much more? Hone those post skills Zach, bulk up with Travis' guidance, and learn how to avoid fouling next year with the Zags. The difference in compensation? Not much, only about 1.8 mil. And ask anybody-sophomore year at GU is so much more fun than being a frosh.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 11:51 AM
DeAndre Jordan

Getting better, but still not quite a star. 12ppg scoring average. Great on boards and on defense though. But the best example along with Booker for sure.

rennis
04-05-2017, 11:58 AM
Exactly, Booker was the one name that came to mind (averaging 22 PPG with the Suns), but he played on a extraordinarily talented team where no one played more than about 20MPG. If he had played at, say, Vanderbilt, he may have been a college star.


Did you just make your point? Booker played with a lot of exceptional talent (say, good enough to play for a Natty) and played team ball instead of padding individual stats at the college level. Sounds a lot like Zach to me.

I am counting on both Zach and NWG heading off to the pros. Zach is at the ideal age and point of player development for the NBA draft. NWG logically can't raise his stock much higher by staying another year, considering he just had a full year committed to player development and shot making improvements. These guys were awesome for us, and I hope they have fantastic professional careers starting in the Fall of 2017.

anyone who says NWG can't find his way onto an NBA roster clearly never watched Delly play hoops. At either level...

whatazag
04-05-2017, 12:52 PM
Going back to Zach Collins and his future.....here's a legit question:

Is there a current NBA star who was one and done who wasn't an exceptional college player before he went pro? What do I mean by an exceptional college player? A starting player who played major minutes and who put up big numbers. A guy who was at least one of the top 2 scorers on his team. A guy who made some All American teams. A guy who played on a team that won a lot of games.

Anyone have any names?

I do not follow the NBA at all. But I think Eric Bledsoe was a reserve guard for Kentucky and believe he is having a nice career. Don't have to be a star to make a living in the NBA.

Worthington
04-05-2017, 12:58 PM
I find it hard to comprehend some people's position on NWG. He's one of the best players we've ever had and I would argue the best point guard we've had in the modern era, and yet most posters describe his NBA outlook as "undrafted" with a "good European career". This kid has all the tools to play at the next level. His basketball IQ is through the roof, he consistently guarded opposing teams best player for us, he has ideal strength and size for an NBA PG, he can knock them down from outside. Look at the majority of backup NBA point guards and he is not out of place among that group. Heck Matthew Dellevedova is an NBA starter right now. He's obviously not Westbrook or Wall, but that's an elite handful of guy.

Moreover, while there is good star power in this draft, take a look at the projected late first rounders. That portion of the draft consists of guys like Jonathan Motley, Dwayne Bacon, Tyler Lydon, Josh Hart, etc. who are hardly on a different level than Williams-Goss in terms of potential or production right now. In fact, how many among us wouldn't take NWG over those guys? I think Nigel has a good chance to get drafted at the end of the first or early second. I don't think his draft stock is going to get any higher by coming back for his senior season. He's mastered and dominated the college game. With his history of ankle injuries, there is a legitimate concern that his draft stock could plummet by coming back next year.

There's no formula for making the right decision when you're in Zach's position. Some players come back, show huge improvement, and increase their stock immensely (see Buddy Hield). For others, their limitations get exposed in a more prominent role and it's essentially an extra year for scouts to poke holes in their game. I think Collins is also likely gone, but a lot of that will depend on the feedback he is getting. If you believe the hype that is circulating social media right now (and I do), he has a good chance to be drafted in the lottery this year. If Collins and his family believe that to be true then he will probably make the jump.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 01:00 PM
Did you just make your point?

I'm not making a point. Just trying to see if anyone can come up with any names of guys who fit my criteria. Booker is the best example so far. They must be a star. Doing it as a favor for someone. He needs names.

There are definitely lots of one and done guys like Bledsoe who have made a fine living in the NBA. Don't take this as a dig on the one and done rule or anything. Just trying to come up with one and done examples of NBA stars or really great players who weren't really exceptional college basketball players. That's it. Nothing more.

Worthington
04-05-2017, 01:19 PM
I'm not making a point. Just trying to see if anyone can come up with any names of guys who fit my criteria. Booker is the best example so far. They must be a star. Doing it as a favor for someone. He needs names.

There are definitely lots of one and done guys like Bledsoe who have made a fine living in the NBA. Don't take this as a dig on the one and done rule or anything. Just trying to come up with one and done examples of NBA stars or really great players who weren't really exceptional college basketball players. That's it. Nothing more.

Andre Drummond is another pretty good example.

CDC84
04-05-2017, 01:30 PM
Thanks, Andre is a good one. Honestly, he's one guy I didn't think would amount to much coming out of UConn.

ZagMan in Philly
04-05-2017, 01:42 PM
Andre Drummond is another pretty good example.

Kawhi Leonard?

Mr Vulture
04-05-2017, 01:54 PM
Kawhi was the best player on his team and 2nd team All American although he was in school for two years...

jazzdelmar
04-05-2017, 02:04 PM
Another insightful and positive post from Jazz....

From you, as well.

Chicken Ball
04-05-2017, 02:20 PM
Going back to Zach Collins and his future.....here's a legit question:

Is there a current NBA star who was one and done who wasn't an exceptional college player before he went pro? What do I mean by an exceptional college player? A starting player who played major minutes and who put up big numbers. A guy who was at least one of the top 2 scorers on his team. A guy who made some All American teams. A guy who played on a team that won a lot of games.

Anyone have any names?

Strangely enough, the original Z-Bo.

Goshzagit
04-05-2017, 02:33 PM
My greatest concern fro Zach is the fact his stock is all over the board.

I've seen anywhere from 11, to 15, to 21, to late 1st round, to undrafted (until 2018).

Just as CDC posted a good question, there is not a SINGLE player in the so-called projected "lottery" with the variance Collins has...this makes me nervous.

Some scouts speak to his obvious upside, others questions his face up game and foul issues (Collins fouled out of 7 games this season).

Come draft day, there are always unknown Euro prospects, or all the combine hoopla, etc.

No other player in the Top 15 is projected all over the board like he is.

I have a gut feeling he is gone, will hire an agent, just hope he soaks it all in. IF Collins sticks around, he will sky rocket up boards. Not just ONE analyst saying Top-15 pick, rather Top-5 pick, in a weak draft next season.

He will avg a double double. Develop a face up and dribble drive game (non existent right now, outside 3pt shots).

Only injury could hold him back. He would be the go-to player on a Top-10 team.

If I'm Zach, I'm taking a guarantee contract and more $. Right now, he's banking on 1 scout saying he's a lottery pick while others say more 16-25 range. Only because they haven't seen enough.

Its not the same if he was a guard, where they can regress their shooting, but rather elite bigs only get better, stronger, more dominant at NCAA level.

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2017, 02:37 PM
Trey Lyles would be the last one. Lyles, Booker and Williams are the three 6th man/lottery picks that come to mind.

Dion waiters was the six man at Syracuse and was the fourth pick in the draft

Zags11
03-17-2018, 11:45 AM
I agree with all you have posted. Regarding NWG's interview after the game, I also do not see anything in it that indicates he's going pro. I see a man, a player, who loves Gonzaga and ZagNation and will be back to lead us to a championship. He sounded like he feels that he let people down, and will be back next year to rectify that. What does he have to gain by returning. POY, 1st team All-American, possible championship title in March/April, and once again taking ZagNation on an even more incredible journey. And has been stated, a Master's Degree from Gonzaga University. Also being at Gonzaga one more year and those who went there know that that is a great experience in itself.

Regarding Zach Collins, I think he would be wise to return to GU and play one more year. I also think he will do that.

This team would be #1 seed and undefeated if both returned. However by reading old threads....this zag team has exceeded expectations for a lot on here but a few.

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-17-2018, 12:05 PM
Seriously, please stop.

Zags11
03-17-2018, 12:24 PM
Seriously, please stop.

Stop what?

Zags11
03-17-2018, 12:25 PM
Seriously, please stop.

Actually I'm giving kudos to this team. Sorry so many people act like they are always right on here and actually are incorrect more so then not.

I don't get your attitude. I didn't take a shot at all.

Zagceo
03-17-2018, 12:29 PM
Seriously, please stop.

Don’t encourage him..like a kid...gonna do opposite.

Sarenyon
03-17-2018, 12:33 PM
Thread-o-mancy is not encouraged, but it is sometimes interesting.

Zags11
03-17-2018, 12:52 PM
Actually I don't know why they got so butt hurt. Its strange AF to me.