PDA

View Full Version : What would happen if the Zags...



LongIslandZagFan
03-20-2017, 09:17 AM
in the last 9 years did this:

as #2 seed lost to #7 seed
as #2 seed lost to #15 seed
as #3 seed lost to #14 seed
as #2 seed lost to #7 seed

Yes, this is Duke's record over the last 9... almost half of their appearances went down as really bad losses in the first weekend. Yes, I do realize they also won a NC in that time span. But I'd argue that if GU did the exact same thing... the NC would be dismissed and they'd point to those 4 losses.

jazzdelmar
03-20-2017, 09:28 AM
Looking a bit more broadly, there are a couple more champs in there too, right?

LongIslandZagFan
03-20-2017, 09:31 AM
Looking a bit more broadly, there are a couple more champs in there too, right?

One more... again... if it were the Zags... they'd focus on those 4 games.

CDC84
03-20-2017, 09:32 AM
Yep.

Ezag
03-20-2017, 09:35 AM
Don't mention that to Jay Williams :roll:

Zags11
03-20-2017, 10:38 AM
They get away with it because they have titles and final 4s on their mantle and we don't.

As a duke fan? I'd be annoyed still.

U Zig, I Zag
03-20-2017, 11:32 AM
Zags nowhere on this list

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/20/no-team-is-more-overrated-in-more-ncaa-tournaments-than-duke/

deathchina
03-20-2017, 12:09 PM
Is this for real? They won 2 titles in that time span. They won two titles in that time span!!!

The media cuts them slack because they've been the model of sustained excellence and achievement. They are light years ahead of the zags in terms of tournament success. Any comparison is silly.

deathchina
03-20-2017, 12:11 PM
Duke has played in the national title game 9 times in the last 30 years!!!!! That's incredible!

rennis
03-20-2017, 12:12 PM
Zags nowhere on this list

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/20/no-team-is-more-overrated-in-more-ncaa-tournaments-than-duke/

Can we sticky that please?

Goshzagit
03-20-2017, 12:13 PM
I found it interesting every 4 seed advanced to Sweet 16.

They are the only seef who held their ground.

Everyone else either playing lower seeds or upset.

Gonzaga doesn't usually catch many breaks compared to other teams this time of year.

Playing UCLA in Sweet 16 a couple yrs ago was one...

I'd much rather be playing an 11 seed, or 8 seed, etc as we will have to play chalk to reach a F4. Usually need a break or two.

Its gonna be a battle vs West Va.

Zigzag92
03-20-2017, 12:18 PM
this inferiority complex crap is getting real tired

hockeyzag
03-20-2017, 12:43 PM
Is this for real? They won 2 titles in that time span. They won two titles in that time span!!!

The media cuts them slack because they've been the model of sustained excellence and achievement. They are light years ahead of the zags in terms of tournament success. Any comparison is silly.

Lol, seriously. :roll:

2 NC's, just leave that part out. What a silly thread.

Zagger
03-20-2017, 12:51 PM
What one also must take into account when assessing how people really feel about the Zags is who's opinions we're hearing. By no accounts are we're hearing a representative scientific sampling of college basketball fans.

Zagricultural
03-20-2017, 01:29 PM
For you Duke apologists we are talking about being over-rated. Yes Duke won a couple of titles, but they are pretty much always a 1-4 because the ACC is so overvalued and haven't performed up to their seed more often than not. Of course it is a vicious cycle as their being over-rated then helps with their recruiting etc... Gonzaga on the other hand typically is under-rated and in that same 9-year span has out-performed their seeding the majority of the time.

Zagricultural
03-20-2017, 01:32 PM
Zags nowhere on this list

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/20/no-team-is-more-overrated-in-more-ncaa-tournaments-than-duke/

I love this article! It's exactly what I've always believed, but no-one ever seems to write about. Sweet!

Zigzag92
03-20-2017, 01:34 PM
For you Duke apologists we are talking about being over-rated. Yes Duke won a couple of titles, but they are pretty much always a 1-4 because the ACC is so overvalued and haven't performed up to their seed more often than not. Of course it is a vicious cycle as their being over-rated then helps with their recruiting etc... Gonzaga on the other hand typically is under-rated and in that same 9-year span has out-performed their seeding the majority of the time.

how exactly is the ACC "overvalued" ? Its far and away the best hoops conference top to bottom and should be for some time.

Zagricultural
03-20-2017, 01:37 PM
how exactly is the ACC "overvalued" ? Its far and away the best hoops conference top to bottom and should be for some time.

Might want to go take another look at the games of the last 4 days...

sittingon50
03-20-2017, 01:38 PM
Breaking news out of Duke:

https://thekicker.com/tough-but-fair-coach-k-suspends-grayson-allen-for-rest-of-tourney/

Zigzag92
03-20-2017, 01:39 PM
Might want to go take another look at the games of the last 4 days...

means nothing to me...the tourney is a crapshoot

Zagricultural
03-20-2017, 01:46 PM
means nothing to me...the tourney is a crapshoot

what does mean something to you?

For me to see a conference consistently get 7-9 teams in the bracket and have them under-perform their seeds the majority of the time means they are over-valued. Doesn't mean they aren't good, but simply that they are given too much value simply for belonging to the ACC. Of course it is affected by the fact that they are given high pre-season rankings, play soft non conference schedules, and then garner all sorts of "top 50" wins in Conference play. Then people are aghast when a team like Syracuse is left out, but don't bat an eye about Illinios State. Like I said, the ACC is over-rated.

Zigzag92
03-20-2017, 01:53 PM
what does mean something to you?

For me to see a conference consistently get 7-9 teams in the bracket and have them under-perform their seeds the majority of the time means they are over-valued. Doesn't mean they aren't good, but simply that they are given too much value simply for belonging to the ACC. Of course it is affected by the fact that they are given high pre-season rankings, play soft non conference schedules, and then garner all sorts of "top 50" wins in Conference play. Then people are aghast when a team like Syracuse is left out, but don't bat an eye about Illinios State. Like I said, the ACC is over-rated.


you probably thought the old big east overrated too? For any zags fan to call any conference overrated when we beat up on the likes of san francisco and pacific is pretty absurd

LongIslandZagFan
03-20-2017, 02:03 PM
Lol, seriously. :roll:

2 NC's, just leave that part out. What a silly thread.

I didn't leave them out. I mentioned one of them in the OP and adjusted for the one I missed in later post.

My point is... Zags are held to a far different standard than others. JMHO... the NCs make Duke's failures that much worse. It isn't an inferiority issue... it is the blatant and obvious separate standard the Zags are held to. Period.

LongIslandZagFan
03-20-2017, 02:04 PM
you probably thought the old big east overrated too? For any zags fan to call any conference overrated when we beat up on the likes of san francisco and pacific is pretty absurd

Comparing the WCC to the Summit League or NEC is even more absurd.

zagzilla
03-20-2017, 02:06 PM
If you are consistently a top 4 seed, the chances that when you lost it most likely to a lower seed go up.

They have 16 final 4's out of 40 tournament appearances-roughly 40%. I'd accept a few upsets if GU made the FF 4 out of every 10 dances

Zigzag92
03-20-2017, 02:08 PM
Is this for real? They won 2 titles in that time span. They won two titles in that time span!!!

The media cuts them slack because they've been the model of sustained excellence and achievement. They are light years ahead of the zags in terms of tournament success. Any comparison is silly.

but...but...the acc is overrated !

Zigzag92
03-20-2017, 02:11 PM
Comparing the WCC to the Summit League or NEC is even more absurd.

its much closer to those leagues than it is to a power 5 conference...and thats in years when BYU and SMC are respectable

FuManShoes
03-20-2017, 02:17 PM
The media cuts them slack because they've been the model of sustained excellence and achievement.

Except for all the times they weren't. I think that's the OP's point ...

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-20-2017, 02:29 PM
Which team is this?

2005 Lost in the first round in a 3-14 upset.
2006 Lost in the first round in a 4-13 upset. That was the same year that 3 seeded Gonzaga lost to 2 seeded UCLA in the Sweet 16.
2010 Fell in the second round in a 1-9 upset.
2011 Lost to an 11 seed as a 1 seed.
2013 Lost in the Sweet 16 as a 1 seed.
2014 Fell in the second round in a 10-2 upset.
2015 Fell in the second round in a 7-2 upset.

Hint - one of those losses was to Wichita State.

LongIslandZagFan
03-20-2017, 02:30 PM
its much closer to those leagues than it is to a power 5 conference...and thats in years when BYU and SMC are respectable

That is patently false. WCC ranked 9th this year... with only SMC being respectable... USF and BYU close... Summit 17th... NEC 32nd... unless you are using some new math... you aren't even close to be correct. WCC averages about 10 or so... Summit about 19... NEC deep in the 20s

U Zig, I Zag
03-20-2017, 02:37 PM
Certainly the FAN narrative (go read ESPN comments up to and after the selection sunday results) is that Gonzaga is always overrated and loses early. Which clearly isn't the case. I think that's in part to being a bit of an unknown for most fans in the east, they just don't watch a lot of Zags and when they do we are beating LMU by 25 or something. So they pick GU, GU loses in the S16 or wins on thursday but goes down saturday.

Duke and the blue bloods get a lot more leeway. Exposure and the ultimate successes (FF, NC, Champ) negate the years they play poorly, in many people's eyes. But if you look at that link, both Duke and Ohio State bail early often, and often to an inferior team.

LongIslandZagFan
03-20-2017, 02:39 PM
Which team is this?

2005 Lost in the first round in a 3-14 upset.
2006 Lost in the first round in a 4-13 upset. That was the same year that 3 seeded Gonzaga lost to 2 seeded UCLA in the Sweet 16.
2010 Fell in the second round in a 1-9 upset.
2011 Lost to an 11 seed as a 1 seed.
2013 Lost in the Sweet 16 as a 1 seed.
2014 Fell in the second round in a 10-2 upset.
2015 Fell in the second round in a 7-2 upset.

Hint - one of those losses was to Wichita State.

That would undoubtedly be Kansas

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-20-2017, 02:47 PM
That would undoubtedly be Kansas

Yup.

Zagricultural
03-22-2017, 07:58 AM
Here is a quote from an ESPN article about how over-rated the ACC Is.

"It was overrated," another ACC coach added. "I'll admit it. We won games in November and December, but most of our teams weren't that much better than teams in the other leagues. But we had a ton of résumé wins on the board because of Duke, North Carolina, Louisville and even Virginia -- and that allows the other teams to become overrated."