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LTownZag
03-19-2017, 11:31 AM
I'm new to the forum, but have been a pretty devoted fan for the last couple years, and a casual fan for many years before that. I think all the fans want the best for GU and its players, so I'm not trying to get into any kind of personal attacks or insults. If this team plays to its potential, we are certainly able to win a championship in 2 weeks. I admire how the team is so close with each other, including the "odd couple" combos of Karno+Perkins, and Karno+Rem. My question:

What was the coach/fan impression of Perkins when he joined GU as a scholarship player a few years ago, before his injury?

Was his high school play in Denver enough to make him seem like he'd be in the tradition of ball handling, shooting, leadership, or FT% of past starting players at "Guard U"? Are fans unrealistic in having expected him to be a focal point of a productive offense? In watching him both of the last two seasons, without knowing context of what was expected of him, I've often wondered why responsibility was given to him, especially in crunch time. It seems his best games are when he's basically doing the least. When he plays as a conservative ball handler (and he DOES have low T/Os when he's not attacking) and an occasional spot-up shooter, he seems like he's a good role player, but doesn't create much for us. Anything beyond that level of responsibility or involvement seems to always spell trouble, and maybe it's just selection bias, but that trouble seems to be bigger during closer games (We have two losses and probably ~10 close wins in our last 40 contests and I've watched them all, including several recent reviews.) I think JP also wants what's best for GU, so if his future is to become more of a role-player, I'm confident he'll be team-first and embrace that potential.

It seems like the coaches have realized this and adjusted somewhat to using him in less of a primary role. But (again I don't want to just bash any player) did fans/coaches simply have unrealistic and unfounded expectations?

Outraged
03-19-2017, 11:50 AM
He is a great defender. When he focuses on defense he shines. When he forces he occasionally fails in a very visible way. Occasonally he gets too comfortable and does not control the ball as tight as he should. He is a big part of why we are here.

His injury was a setback because he did not get the opportunity to ease into the game behind a veteran. Rather he was thrust into a starting pg position last year.

Zags11
03-19-2017, 12:06 PM
He is a great defender. When he focuses on defense he shines. When he forces he occasionally fails in a very visible way. Occasonally he gets too comfortable and does not control the ball as tight as he should. He is a big part of why we are here.

His injury was a setback because he did not get the opportunity to ease into the game behind a veteran. Rather he was thrust into a starting pg position last year.


Wishes "could do more." And fear of "mistakes".

People don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

DixieZag
03-19-2017, 12:09 PM
At the time he signed, he was our highest rated signee out of high school, ever.

I think it's time to put the Perkins talk away. Everyone knows he's struggling mightily, undoubtedly no one moreso than him.

He either finds something inside himself and comes back to form this week, or not. Not sure what more needs discussion.

Zags11
03-19-2017, 12:11 PM
At the time he signed, he was our highest rated signee out of high school, ever.

I think it's time to put the Perkins talk away. Everyone knows he's struggling mightily, undoubtedly no one moreso than him.

He either finds something inside himself and comes back to form this week, or not. Not sure what more needs discussion.

This.

jazzdelmar
03-19-2017, 12:12 PM
At the time he signed, he was our highest rated signee out of high school, ever.

I think it's time to put the Perkins talk away. Everyone knows he's struggling mightily, undoubtedly no one moreso than him.

He either finds something inside himself and comes back to form this week, or not. Not sure what more needs discussion.

Or more myopic defending

LTownZag
03-19-2017, 01:17 PM
At the time he signed, he was our highest rated signee out of high school, ever.

I think it's time to put the Perkins talk away. Everyone knows he's struggling mightily, undoubtedly no one moreso than him.

He either finds something inside himself and comes back to form this week, or not. Not sure what more needs discussion.


I guess I'm just surprised at low long those high expectations/hopes have been maintained, given that (even against low level WCC opponents) he hasn't seemed to ever warrant that kind of high-profile hype. That's why I was wondering what context I'd been missing. I wonder why it has taken so long for expectations to meet up with reality?

DixieZag
03-19-2017, 01:21 PM
I guess I'm just surprised at low long those high expectations/hopes have been maintained, given that (even against low level WCC opponents) he hasn't seemed to ever warrant that kind of high-profile hype. That's why I was wondering what context I'd been missing. I wonder why it has taken so long for expectations to meet up with reality?

Maybe I'm just seeing things due to his earlier DUI, but doesn't he seem to always have the most glassy/red eyes of anyone you've seen?

That last sentence is way out bounds.

Goshzagit
03-19-2017, 01:24 PM
His ESPN scouting report via HS said he had potential to be a great defender.

Right now, it's something we have to appreciate.

He's a really good, above average defender on the perimeter.

Rarely gets beat.

The rest of his game is a mess. Kinda the reason we arent the same team but dont want him to know that...

jazzdelmar
03-19-2017, 01:28 PM
Troll alert.

As for Perkins, one independent scout said he was the best ball handling and passing point guard to come out of high school in many years. His shooting, which can be super, was not his strongest suit, ironically.

Virginia Zags Fan
03-19-2017, 01:33 PM
Our chances of a FF are greatly enhanced when Josh Perkins is focused and hitting his shots. I am really rooting for him!!

Zaga
03-19-2017, 01:39 PM
Whatever the reasons are he will be battling for minutes next year I think.

bartruff1
03-19-2017, 02:06 PM
Josh, if you or your friends or family are reading this....don't pay any attention to these dorks...listen to your coaches and enjoy your time at Gonzaga...

Worthington
03-19-2017, 02:10 PM
He's shown that he can be a great complimentary guard when he's playing well. Maybe he's not your lead guard, but it's a huge luxury to have another ball handler on the floor who can facilitate. At his worst, he makes some very questionable passes, but at his best he makes plays due to his court vision that nobody else on our team can. Last year he led the conference in three point percentage so we know the shooting ability is there. Defensively he is very solid. All the tools are there to be a fantastic third option type of guy.

I think that maybe you're correct is saying that the expectations might have been inflated coming out of high school. There were many on this board who predicted that are back court play would actually improve the first year after Pangos and Bell graduated. When he committed people were saying that he could be the most athletic point guard we'd ever had, even comparing him to Pargo. Clearly that's not where his strengths lie. Regardless of expectations, he just hasn't been playing well lately. Important to remember he's still only a sophomore, he's only going to get better.

Zags11
03-19-2017, 02:10 PM
Josh, if you or your friends or family are reading this....don't pay any attention to these dorks...listen to your coaches and enjoy your time at Gonzaga...

Thank you. Some ppl don't understand this.

TexasZagFan
03-19-2017, 02:15 PM
Thank you. Some ppl don't understand this.

Irking me how so many "devoted fans" use Josh for the target of the ire. Wasn't too long ago that Silas and Jordan were taking the arrows.

Now Shem's getting it too, he's been getting mauled on the court. At least he'll be at sea level next week.

This season has been one for the ages, and very few of us seem to be enjoying it. This team has labored under the "Final Four or Bust" meme for over three months. Not that they need it, but I'm one who has their backs.

Zags11
03-19-2017, 02:17 PM
Irking me how so many "devoted fans" use Josh for the target of the ire. Wasn't too long ago that Silas and Jordan were taking the arrows.

Now Shem's getting it too, he's been getting mauled on the court. At least he'll be at sea level next week.

Yep josh is a good kid. Shem and goss too. Most the kids are but we are ripping him to pieces. I know some things but I'll just say he is trying to be mistake free and sometimes perfect and it snowballs.

TexasZagFan
03-19-2017, 02:20 PM
Yep josh is a good kid. Shem and goss too. Most the kids are but we are ripping him to pieces. I know some things but I'll just say he is trying to be mistake free and sometimes perfect and it snowballs.

They just need to enjoy themselves and be the hunter. WVU's pace will be good for us, too. Lots of open shot opportunities.

Zags11
03-19-2017, 02:22 PM
They just need to enjoy themselves and be the hunter. WVU's pace will be good for us, too. Lots of open shot opportunities.

Yep. I think our perimeter goes off that game. Idk why.

TexasZagFan
03-19-2017, 02:34 PM
Yep. I think our perimeter goes off that game. Idk why.

Hit a few early, get the rhythm going, good vibes all around.

Reborn
03-19-2017, 02:43 PM
Josh is only in his 2nd year playing a very tough position, combo guard. He's going to make mistakes, and they seem to get compounded for some reason at times. Few handles it perfectly imo. At times Josh needs to sit down and find the peace inside himself and get refocused. Josh has and done contributed a lot to this team and will continue to do so imo. He's a really good passer, and at times tries to force things because of his confidence in his ability to pass. I watch most Gonzaga games at least twice and sometimes 3 times, and Josh does make some really good passes. He plays in an attack mode all the time, as others are at times a little more cautious. I know he's struggling right now, and does NOT NEED anyone to challenge his heart or desire. He just needs to find it inside himself. Most athletes, and I know basketball players do, so through what Josh is going through now. I know I have. It happened twice when I was playing. The last thing I needed was people saying negative things. I was my worst enemy, and I would bet Josh is his worst enemy too. I think Few is making the right decision by supporting him and encouraging him. Let's hope the positive support works rather than punishment and negative actions. I'm really pulling for Josh more now than ever.

spike_jr
03-19-2017, 03:09 PM
I was at the game yesterday. I watched him with interest in warm ups and throughout the game. He seemed fairly loose in warm ups and was dialed in come tip off. You could see the focus and intensity in his face. I thought he played great in the first half. His defense on McIntosh was really good. Then came the second half in which the entire team did not really play well, save maybe Collins and Tillie (I have my theories as to why, but that is a different topic than this all together). I think this board has him under a spot light, which is not fair to him. I know I want to see them all play well and up to their potential as a team. It's been a great ride and we all want to see it continue, but I bet no one wants this more than Josh and the team.

RenoZag
03-19-2017, 03:15 PM
I was hoping to see video of Rem Bakamus doing his best Josh Perkins imitation. . . what a disappointment

Coach Crazy
03-19-2017, 03:53 PM
Josh has had a very demanding road. First and foremost, if you come into this system not really having played this style or not fitting this style...well, you'll have some acclimating to do. Add to it the fact that he was never able to get much on-court time to play next to KP, and the fact that he had to spend that year also recovering from an injury, as well as the fact that his first year back was as the starting PG for a squad, and then becoming more of a combo guard this year? Kid has had a lot to adjust to.

Is he where some would hope he is? Maybe not. But he has endured something that would make some players simply wilt and retreat.

maynard g krebs
03-19-2017, 04:21 PM
At the time he signed, he was our highest rated signee out of high school, ever.

I think it's time to put the Perkins talk away. Everyone knows he's struggling mightily, undoubtedly no one moreso than him.

He either finds something inside himself and comes back to form this week, or not. Not sure what more needs discussion.

Exactly. This is a good time to remind everybody that the year he went down with the broken jaw, a lot of people, including some of his bashers (you know who you are) were saying his loss was what kept the Zags from the final 4. He was fantastic playing with Pangos and Bell

His pre-Zags game was flashy and creative, (and got him recruited by blue bloods), and players who play like that make some mistakes. Few doesn't like mistakes and has had Josh rein in his style imo, and he is playing timidly esp after BYU. By orders from the coaches or not, who knows.

vandalzag
03-19-2017, 04:35 PM
Or more myopic defending

With you does it really matter what he does. Josh is in the Pargo/Ravio zone with you. The kid could write a research paper detailing the cure for cancer and you would find fault with the font he used. I really think your worst fear may be him having a good game and being the reason the zags win. That would limit your next "Few's Perkins Problem" thread and your ability to submit your opinion as fact.
And yes he is struggling and yes Few did the right thing by sitting him the last game. Not making apologies for Josh but your endless bashing is just tiresome. The only positive from this is that the majority of players your have targeted in this way have ended up having great Zag careers. So here's to Josh continuing that trend.
For me the game is much more enjoyable rooting for the player to succeed rather than fail.

basketballzag
03-19-2017, 04:50 PM
If Perkins continues to play like he has then R.E.M. Would be a terrific substitution for a few minutes.

vandalzag
03-19-2017, 05:07 PM
If Perkins continues to play like he has then R.E.M. Would be a terrific substitution for a few minutes.

Seriously? You kind lose credibility posting this.

Alum08
03-19-2017, 07:04 PM
Michaelson called him the best shooter in the history of the program, yet he came in as a creative playmaker. Sky is the limit.

DixieZag
03-19-2017, 07:15 PM
Michaelson called him the best shooter in the history of the program, yet he came in as a creative playmaker. Sky is the limit.

That's some hyperbole, especially one with Wiltjer, Pangos, Morrison and Stepp. But he is an elite shooter in an elite funk. I love the kid and hate what he's had to endure, from the injury on. There isn't a think I'd like more than to see him return to his best play in the next 2 games.

MDABE80
03-19-2017, 07:21 PM
Great talent, colorful, used to be a great shooter, odd all the fanfare. Not measuring up the past 6 games. Erratic. We're at the end of the season and we still dunno who will show up. I was the old Josh back. Champions need to show consistency to prevail. We need something. Maybe he'll rise to the occasion. I hope he does. We sure could use consistently good play as a 2.
Duke is done!

Swt 16 will be difficult with this level of play.