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View Full Version : How on earth do we beat Press Virginia?



thespywhozaggedme
03-18-2017, 04:14 PM
They press all day forcing turnovers. Does Few have the intestinal fortitude to play Melson over Perk, or will he roll the dice and hope that Josh doesn't turn the ball over 10+ times versus WVU? This is a nightmare match up for us. What say you?

TexasZagFan
03-18-2017, 04:16 PM
They press all day forcing turnovers. Does Few have the intestinal fortitude to play Melson over Perk, or will he roll the dice and hope that Josh doesn't turn the ball over 10+ times versus WVU? This is a nightmare match up for us. What say you?

WVU has lost to us big the last few times we've played them. I trust Few and the staff to devise a winning game plan.

I prefer to ask, "how does WVU beat our defense?"

bartruff1
03-18-2017, 04:16 PM
WV has a difficult time scoring and Few pretty much owns Huggins.....I think they have a excellent chance to win, I was much more worried about ND...

hooter73
03-18-2017, 04:17 PM
They press all day forcing turnovers. Does Few have the intestinal fortitude to play Melson over Perk, or will he roll the dice and hope that Josh doesn't turn the ball over 10+ times versus WVU? This is a nightmare match up for us. What say you?

Inbound through the bigs, they outlet to nwg and Matthews, they run it out, we win.

ZagMan in Philly
03-18-2017, 04:18 PM
They press all day forcing turnovers. Does Few have the intestinal fortitude to play Melson over Perk, or will he roll the dice and hope that Josh doesn't turn the ball over 10+ times versus WVU? This is a nightmare match up for us. What say you?

1.game films
2.practice, lots of practice
3.pray

Will be a challenge.
But i trust that we will advance, and i will lose my voice.

jazzdelmar
03-18-2017, 04:18 PM
Every game is a snowflake. Few has broken through with his late game lineup.

Hoopaholic
03-18-2017, 04:19 PM
Inbound through the bigs, they outlet to nwg and Matthews, they run it out, we win.

Bingo

Jw3 relief valve

Shem and Collins waiting at the block

TexasZagFan
03-18-2017, 04:21 PM
I'm also going with the same viewing strategy that I employed today: completely avoid the game thread.

CDC84
03-18-2017, 04:23 PM
You just have to get them into a halfcourt game. There is a reason Few has beaten WVU 3x in a row. I'm telling you, they will be just about the least talented team in the sweet 16. There is a reason why Huggins implements that all out press. It's to cover up problems they have.

This is one game where I seriously might consider starting Melson over Perkins. Taking care of the ball is more important than having JP's 3 pt. shot. It's not like Melson can't score.

Morgantown, WV is nearly 2700 miles from San Jose. GU is not going to face the kind of crowd they did today.

bartruff1
03-18-2017, 04:24 PM
I'm also going with the same viewing strategy that I employed today: completely avoid the game thread.

That place is toxic....the games are much better to watch without all the negativity...

thespywhozaggedme
03-18-2017, 04:25 PM
Great answers guys, makes me feel better. Thanks

bballbeachbum
03-18-2017, 04:32 PM
That place is toxic....the games are much better to watch without all the negativity...

I'm ready to bail too and I love the game thread over all these years.......

Zags11
03-18-2017, 04:42 PM
I'm ready to bail too and I love the game thread over all these years.......


I don't avoid it. People aren't all the same and it's frustrating losing huge leads in march. To ignore it is silly. We take the foot off the gas, and try to kill clock. Analysts are also picking up on this. However, we made the sw16 again. We hung on and advanced.

My point is if we all agreed and thought the same, life would be boring.

bballbeachbum
03-18-2017, 04:44 PM
I don't avoid it. People aren't all the same and it's frustrating losing huge leads in march. To ignore it is silly. We take the foot off the gas, and try to kill clock. Analysts are also picking up on this. However, we made the sw16 again. We hung on and advanced.

My point is if we all agreed and thought the same, life would be boring.

has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing...we all see what's happening.

Zags11
03-18-2017, 04:47 PM
has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing...we all see what's happening.



I wasn't there today...what happened?

ZAG 4 LIFE
03-18-2017, 04:49 PM
Obviously a lot of Zags have to play better in San Jose than
They did in SLC, but beating the WV press will be easier with a few days to prepare...
Would be much more worried if this was a Saturday after Thursday turnaround.
Presses when broken should be attacked... and layups or inside out wide open
3's should be the result.

gonzagafan62
03-18-2017, 04:50 PM
By making them travel from Buffalo to San Jose and make them switch time zone from east coast to west coast.....

Oh wait, that's actually happening

JPtheBeasta
03-18-2017, 04:51 PM
WVU is a schizophrenic team. They should be worried how they are going to beat the Zags.

CDC84
03-18-2017, 04:52 PM
Yeah....but there's also some analysts that are grilling us for not chewing up enough clock in the last 3 minutes. Zags had several possessions in the last 3 minutes where they launched shots too early in the shot clock.

ZagsObserver
03-18-2017, 04:55 PM
Wouldn't it be rotten to lose to WV, who can beat anyone when they are on, and watch SMC go to the final 4 by beating a vulnerable Xavier squad?

Plausible outcome, assuming SMC gets by AZ.

JPtheBeasta
03-18-2017, 05:00 PM
Yeah....but there's also some analysts that are grilling us for not chewing up enough clock in the last 3 minutes. Zags had several possessions in the last 3 minutes where they launched shots too early in the shot clock.

Northwestern was the sexy story of the tournament so far. Time to get down to biz-ness.

ZagOD7540
03-18-2017, 05:04 PM
Wouldn't it be rotten to lose to WV, who can beat anyone when they are on, and watch SMC go to the final 4 by beating a vulnerable Xavier squad?

Plausible outcome, assuming SMC gets by AZ.

Ugh...I just threw up in my mouth

Jakester425
03-18-2017, 05:12 PM
Do what eight other teams did this year.

We are the better team.

strikenowhere
03-18-2017, 05:16 PM
Wouldn't it be rotten to lose to WV, who can beat anyone when they are on, and watch SMC go to the final 4 by beating a vulnerable Xavier squad?

Plausible outcome, assuming SMC gets by AZ.

To be fair - to get the Final Four St. Mary's would need to be Xavier AND West Virginia (assuming they hold on vs. Arizona)

Zigzag92
03-18-2017, 05:16 PM
That place is toxic....the games are much better to watch without all the negativity...

the game thread is for venting rather than breaking the remote

Ekrub
03-18-2017, 05:17 PM
Every game is a snowflake. Few has broken through with his late game lineup.

We will see if it continues. It's the most effective line up

Zigzag92
03-18-2017, 05:18 PM
Wouldn't it be rotten to lose to WV, who can beat anyone when they are on, and watch SMC go to the final 4 by beating a vulnerable Xavier squad?

Plausible outcome, assuming SMC gets by AZ.


thats what can happen when you play a five month long season that means absolutely nothing but for getting hot for six games at the end...everyone seems to love it I think it sucks

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-18-2017, 05:21 PM
Throw the ball high to Zach Collins. Let him be the center of the press breaker.

ZagLawGrad
03-18-2017, 05:22 PM
JP, NWG, Matthews, Melson---gonna get a workout.

Zagger
03-18-2017, 05:26 PM
........I trust Few and the staff to devise a winning game plan. I prefer to ask, "how does WVU beat our defense?"

I'm with you Tex! Plus more cool BB by Collins and Tillie to supplement the winningest team this season :)

zagirl2k
03-18-2017, 05:30 PM
As my dad would say, we need to score more points than they do.

Zigzag92
03-18-2017, 05:38 PM
some of you are acting like WVU are gods because ND played like garbage today...Jerry West isn't suiting up for them. We'll be well up for this one and they won't shoot as well as they did today. Its better to play them with more time to prepare...ND wasnt ready for the press today and it showed

Zagceo
03-18-2017, 05:41 PM
practice 5 on 6

DixieZag
03-18-2017, 05:45 PM
thats what can happen when you play a five month long season that means absolutely nothing but for getting hot for six games at the end...everyone seems to love it I think it sucks

That and Few, right? Were you the one calling for "moving on from Few" in the game thread, 2 games now?

BayAreaZagFan
03-18-2017, 05:55 PM
I'm so stressed! Only 8 teams have ever beat them ALL SEASON!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

MontanaCoyote
03-18-2017, 06:00 PM
I'm also going with the same viewing strategy that I employed today: completely avoid the game thread.

I am with you big time! Too many posters are coaches, or think they are. Going to follow your lead, stay as positive as possible and just pull for the guys, each and every one of them.

DixieZag
03-18-2017, 06:02 PM
I'm so stressed! Only 8 teams have ever beat them ALL SEASON!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
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Maybe some are overreacting (me). OTOH, being blithe about it, based on 8 losses, seems pretty silly, especially given that their unique style of play is similar - only way better - than BYU's defense that gave us fits in Provo. And, while you mention losses, perhaps you'd mention some wins, like the one over Kansas among others.

They are a very hot or very cold team, but one that brings something a turnover prone frontcourt team might be quite careful of. I thin worry is warranted. Not panic, but worry.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-18-2017, 07:19 PM
Does anybody have the exact quote from Bob Huggins regarding Mark Few and his recruiting style? You know, the one about every other coach recruiting kids who can run, and jump, and shoot and Mark Few recruiting the kids who just know how to play basketball?

maynard g krebs
03-18-2017, 07:58 PM
I think GU is lucky that a so-so shooting team shot 57% on 3's today to pull out a narrow win. ND settled down after the early turnovers and had 14 for the game. A skilled team like ND, the only team to make the last couple e8's, is a tougher challenge imo. I don't think the Zags have any more trouble with that press than SMC did w/ VCU,

adoptedzag
03-18-2017, 08:00 PM
thats what can happen when you play a five month long season that means absolutely nothing but for getting hot for six games at the end...everyone seems to love it I think it sucks

You're not the only one. I really really try not to get too involved in the madness, but I can't help it. The lose-and-you're-out thing really gets to me. Worst way to crown a national champion, but it makes for highly entertaining TV.

adoptedzag
03-18-2017, 08:02 PM
practice 5 on 6

This. 5-6 all week. With the length/speed of Rui, Jones, BA, Norvell and two more, I think that'll be a good tune-up for the press.

MJ777
03-18-2017, 08:03 PM
Does anybody have the exact quote from Bob Huggins regarding Mark Few and his recruiting style? You know, the one about every other coach recruiting kids who can run, and jump, and shoot and Mark Few recruiting the kids who just know how to play basketball?

I couldn't find that quote, but I have read it before. I guess Few and Huggins are buds.

ZagLawGrad
03-18-2017, 08:06 PM
I think GU is lucky that a so-so shooting team shot 57% on 3's today to pull out a narrow win. ND settled down after the early turnovers and had 14 for the game. A skilled team like ND, the only team to make the last couple e8's, is a tougher challenge imo. I don't think the Zags have any more trouble with that press than SMC did w/ VCU,

:cheers: Sure hope Zags make WVU pay for the press strategy.

ZagOD7540
03-18-2017, 08:18 PM
:cheers: Sure hope Zags make WVU pay for the press strategy.

You have to punish teams that press by getting easy buckets. WV wants you to force and rush shots. If its not there, slow down and get into your offense. We have to be very smart and take good shots. Discipline!

ConnZag3
03-18-2017, 08:27 PM
I've seen a couple games this year where WVU's opponents pressed them for part of the game and they played awful. I realize Gonzaga doesn't press a lot, but might be a good idea to have that as an option for selective possessions throughout the game.

Gotta employ the old adage that teams that press don't like to be pressed themselves.

Collins is also going to have to be special again as I think this is a game where Karnowski struggles to keep up with the athleticism of WVU. If we can get him involved early he can establish a presence, but if not, we need our best skilled athletes for this one.

ZagLawGrad
03-18-2017, 08:32 PM
Has to be advantage to Zags to get several days to figure it out.

CDC84
03-18-2017, 08:40 PM
I'm telling you.....the environment in San Jose is not going to be like it was today in SLC. 80+% of the people in that gym wanted NW to win. How many WVU fans are going to travel 2700 miles???

VinnyZag
03-18-2017, 08:43 PM
Gonzaga is 12-46 on 3-pointers so far in the tournament.

They won't keep doing that.

krozman
03-18-2017, 08:46 PM
All we have to do is convince Gonzaga to bring the first half team out and not the 2nd half team. Brilliant I know.

strikenowhere
03-18-2017, 08:49 PM
Gonzaga is 12-46 on 3-pointers so far in the tournament.

They won't keep doing that.

Keep that shooting percentage and they definitely won't be doing that

BayAreaZagFan
03-18-2017, 08:54 PM
I'm telling you.....the environment in San Jose is not going to be like it was today in SLC. 80+% of the people in that gym wanted NW to win. How many WVU fans are going to travel 2700 miles???
I promise. I will be there and will be cheering louder than any West Virginia fan in the house. I got all of your backs.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Zigzag92
03-18-2017, 08:57 PM
I'm telling you.....the environment in San Jose is not going to be like it was today in SLC. 80+% of the people in that gym wanted NW to win. How many WVU fans are going to travel 2700 miles???

Having lived in wv for a couple years I can say honestly that most of their fans couldn't afford it

willandi
03-19-2017, 06:03 AM
They press all day forcing turnovers. Does Few have the intestinal fortitude to play Melson over Perk, or will he roll the dice and hope that Josh doesn't turn the ball over 10+ times versus WVU? This is a nightmare match up for us. What say you?

Since JP only had 1 TO against NW, do we have to make him have 10?+

TexasZagFan
03-19-2017, 06:09 AM
Since JP only had 1 TO against NW, do we have to make him have 10?+

Stats don't tell the whole story, will. For example, was Karno charged on the TO where Josh made a really lazy pass and it was stolen?

It wasn't just Josh in the second half. Way too tentative on the passing, careless ball handling by our guards.

MickMick
03-19-2017, 06:09 AM
practice 5 on 6

This is actually a great way to prepare for it. Not exclusively of course, but one of several drills.

bartruff1
03-19-2017, 06:17 AM
Teams press out of desperation, normally because they don't have a dependable half court offense and pressing is a high risk defense that can lead to a lot of transition baskets....if the opposing coach knows how to break the press and has the players to do it.

Gonzaga has both and IMHO this is the best possible matchup at the best possible venue that Gonzaga could have in their bracket.

The team I fear now is X...but that is a long ways away.

thespywhozaggedme
03-19-2017, 06:19 AM
Since JP only had 1 TO against NW, do we have to make him have 10?+

I DVR every game. They may have only recorded one in the stat book but I believe he had three.

willandi
03-19-2017, 06:51 AM
I DVR every game. They may have only recorded one in the stat book but I believe he had three.

Big difference between. 3 and 10.
Now if we can just keep Huggy from getting 50, we should be OKAY.

Zigzag92
03-19-2017, 07:10 AM
we cant win this game and most teams cant go deep in the tourney chucking up 3s every time...I wanna see the ball fed inside to Collins and for our guards to attack the basket.

Zaga
03-19-2017, 07:17 AM
I would like to see Collins and JWIII together where Collins is the primary and swings out to the high post. He can definitely be a threat to shoot the three. Teams have left JWIII alone all the way to the FT line. Yes there have been several lobs for easy buckets but ZC can be a double threat... triple if you count his FT%. Prefer JWIII down low where he plays his best ball IMO. Would like to see some more plays off screens for Jordon to get some better looks early. Go Zag's

#runthetable

Zigzag92
03-19-2017, 07:33 AM
zags should wear their blacks for this game and let wvu wear the white jerseys

Zagceo
03-19-2017, 07:54 AM
Tillie and Collins provide big targets in the press.....extra bonus they can both handle the ball and shoot FT.

bballbeachbum
03-19-2017, 07:56 AM
practice 5 on 6

even 5 on 7

bballbeachbum
03-19-2017, 07:59 AM
got to make open shots. with the gambling D guys will be left open, impossible to press and cover everyone, so hunting open shots and punishing the D for pressing is the key to me, and not panicking after a turnover since they will happen; not allowing one turnover to become 2-3-4 plays in a row that suck

cjm720
03-19-2017, 08:11 AM
Stats don't tell the whole story, will. For example, was Karno charged on the TO where Josh made a really lazy pass and it was stolen?

It wasn't just Josh in the second half. Way too tentative on the passing, careless ball handling by our guards.

Or the pass he made to the NU player that stepped out of bounds. Josh plays way to "cool" at times....when IMO he needs to be aggressive and smart.

Zagceo
03-19-2017, 08:12 AM
stay focused ....when TO's happen.....don't commit retaliation fouls.

staff knows the drill well....team will be ready.

Reborn
03-19-2017, 08:15 AM
Some things you don't want a team to do against a press. Dribble up the sidelines. That's what the press wants you to do. Don't panic and get in a hurry. Don't pick up your dribble, if you do dribble. That allows the double team to smother you.

In my opinion here are a few things that will help. Get the ball to the middle of the court. Attack the press by passing and not dribbling, and get the pass to the middle of the court somewhere between the two 3 point lines. Try to pass before the double team occurs. Study film of teams who have beaten them. Ok State beat them twice. Like others have said, it's nice that we have a lot of time to prepare. Good luck Zags. You can do it!

Go Zags!!!

Outraged
03-19-2017, 08:28 AM
It will just improve our focus
And cause us to take bettet care of the ball. It will speed the game up. When we're up by 20 they will back off and catch their breath.

jim77
03-19-2017, 08:32 AM
WVU has lost to us big the last few times we've played them. I trust Few and the staff to devise a winning game plan.

I prefer to ask, "how does WVU beat our defense?"

+1

jim77
03-19-2017, 08:34 AM
Tillie and Collins provide big targets in the press.....extra bonus they can both handle the ball and shoot FT.

YUP...risky strategy against GU.

raise the zag
03-19-2017, 08:43 AM
Tillins and Collins will need to play this game. A lot.

Need a couple guys as 'safety valves' in the middle of the press. Or when the court opens up.

Guys we can throw it up to…either in the middle of court or near the rim.

Also, West Virginia's "3 man" or SF is 6'8…and they use him a lot to slash and mid-range.

Concerned a bit in our half-court sets, but trust this defense to stay locked in and focused.

MickMick
03-19-2017, 08:49 AM
Outstanding observation on your last post Reborn.

I think of it like this......

Given that there is a 360 degree area around a ball handler:

One defender = 90 degrees.
One sideline = 180 degrees = two defenders
One corner = 270 degrees = three defenders

In other words, one defender can effectively trap a ball handler in a corner (90 + 270 = 360). Two defenders can effectively trap a ball handler on a sideline (90 + 90 + 180 = 360). It takes four defenders to effectively trap a player in the open court (90 + 90 + 90 + 90 = 360)

The players that are not handling the ball must make themselves available via recognizing the quick math. In other words, one defender and one side line effectively covers 270 degrees of a ball handler's passing window (if he has picked up his dribble). A teammate rendering relief must find that passing lane in the 90 degree opening. Often this is behind the ball handler.

bballbeachbum
03-19-2017, 09:10 AM
Some things you don't want a team to do against a press. Dribble up the sidelines. That's what the press wants you to do. Don't panic and get in a hurry. Don't pick up your dribble, if you do dribble. That allows the double team to smother you.

In my opinion here are a few things that will help. Get the ball to the middle of the court. Attack the press by passing and not dribbling, and get the pass to the middle of the court somewhere between the two 3 point lines. Try to pass before the double team occurs. Study film of teams who have beaten them. Ok State beat them twice. Like others have said, it's nice that we have a lot of time to prepare. Good luck Zags. You can do it!

Go Zags!!!

could cut and paste this next to 'fundamentals of breaking a press'

Hoopaholic
03-19-2017, 09:28 AM
could cut and paste this next to 'fundamentals of breaking a press'

I guess I would say this is correct if it is option 1 or 2

But the sideline is open if you have moved the press from one side to other, then pass middle to opposite sideline creates a huge dribbling lane from hash mark to hash mark

Key is move the press using middle for relief valve

bballbeachbum
03-19-2017, 09:33 AM
I guess I would say this is correct if it is option 1 or 2

But the sideline is open if you have moved the press from one side to other, then pass middle to opposite sideline creates a huge dribbling lane from hash mark to hash mark

Key is move the press using middle for relief valve

seems like you are saying similar things to Reborn, matbe I'm missing it tho; the sideline is open after moving the D and getting the ball to the middle; dribbling up the sideline without doing those thigns is typically what the press wants you to try and do, yes?

Hoopaholic
03-19-2017, 09:36 AM
seems like you are saying similar things to Reborn, matbe I'm missing it tho; the sideline is open after moving the D and getting the ball to the middle; dribbling up the sideline without doing those thigns is typically what the press wants you to try and do, yes?
Bingo

jazzdelmar
03-19-2017, 09:41 AM
We have 5 tough minded kids -- NWG, Wms, Collins, Tillie and Mathews. They are unafraid of the spotlight and of failing....there's your best 5 for WVU.

MontanaCoyote
03-19-2017, 09:42 AM
Having lived in wv for a couple years I can say honestly that most of their fans couldn't afford it

Ain't that the truth. State is in tough shape as are far too many of its people. 4 of their players are WV kids. They will play working class, blue collar hard. Got a player from Poland, too. Multi Lingual game for Karno.

And come on, Jazz. I know Karno isn't at the top of your list, but to by omission say he's not tough?

MickMick
03-19-2017, 09:49 AM
My concern is:

1) Inbounding the ball after a made basket.
2) The immediate trap on the first player to receive the inbound pass.

On the inbound play, the offensive "receivers" will attempt to get "open" within the 10 seconds allotted. Experienced trapping teams will leave the corner areas open for the inbound pass (and heavily cover everywhere else). In other words, the "path of least resistance" for the inbounding team is to receive the ball in the corner. Once the ball is inbounded, the defenders pounce on the cornered player. Notre Dame, the best team in the NCAA with respect to limiting turnovers, fell victim to this at least twice down the stretch of a close game.

Zagceo
03-19-2017, 09:50 AM
We have 5 tough minded kids -- NWG, Wms, Collins, Tillie and Mathews. They are unafraid of the spotlight and of failing....there's your best 5 for WVU.

channel some Larry Bird

...."The best players will play. Thats the way it will always be."

Zag4Hire
03-19-2017, 09:52 AM
Iowa State flushed them in the last game of the season and you would think so with Iowa State's ball-handlers. The other aspect is Iowa State threw down their own little half court press which generated 10 turnovers in the 1st half alone!

The really good teams at the press try to use the pressure of the timeline to create panic and generate a self-inflicted error by the offense. Don't foul or go for steal--unless it is right there. Get them the offense to plow into you, throw it out of bounds, etc.

I would like to imagine Few rotating a substitution switch of Tillie - JWIII as an offense/defense rotation based on who has the ball. 23/36 on FTs folks. That is not going to get it done. I don't know if Karno is going to get much time on court but we will see. I think a Melson, NWG, Mathews, Tillie, and Collins group would be a good group to break the press. I think they would be smart to keep passing lanes open, not prematurely pick up dribble, etc.

The key is the press seems to generate WVU's offense and if they aren't generating points from the press, they can struggle on the offensive side at times. I think ND's defense was pretty lackluster. WVU's performance will be a high bar to maintain - over 57% from 3PT when normally 46%? FT% over 80 when normally under 69? Meanwhile Zags know they haven't played their best and still have an opportunity to right the ship. The time is now.

MontanaCoyote
03-19-2017, 09:55 AM
My concern is:

1) Inbounding the ball after a made basket.
2) The immediate trap on the first player to receive the inbound pass.

On the inbound play, the offensive "receivers" will attempt to get "open" within the 10 seconds allotted. Experienced trapping teams will leave the corner areas open for the inbound pass (and heavily cover everywhere else). In other words, the "path of least resistance" for the inbounding team is to receive the ball in the corner. Once the ball is inbounded, the defenders pounce on the cornered player. Notre Dame, the best team in the NCAA with respect to limiting turnovers, fell victim to this at least twice down the stretch of a close game.

Good observation. So WV lost 8 games. How, why did they lose? Is there something consistent, a pattern or model, in what those 8 winning teams did to beat them. And, if so, can we do that?

jazzdelmar
03-19-2017, 10:10 AM
Ain't that the truth. State is in tough shape as are far too many of its people. 4 of their players are WV kids. They will play working class, blue collar hard. Got a player from Poland, too. Multi Lingual game for Karno.

And come on, Jazz. I know Karno isn't at the top of your list, but to by omission say he's not tough?

Karno is not un-tough, of course, but the way he's playing now, he hurts more than helps....

MickMick
03-19-2017, 10:16 AM
Good observation. So WV lost 8 games. How, why did they lose? Is there something consistent, a pattern or model, in what those 8 winning teams did to beat them. And, if so, can we do that?


Just watched Louisville do this against Michigan with less than a minute to go.

demian
03-19-2017, 10:21 AM
I am not going to use names because I do agree that we shouldn't be too harsh on players here on the message board I don't want to single out players in a negative way, so this would be my recipe to win = I would have a meeting tonight back at campus and as a coach I would instruct the players that upon review of the film it is obvious some of you played way to casual and laid back in that second half of last game and some of you have been doing that for about a month now. As the coach that is far too long for that to continue and at some point I have to ask myself as a coach "either I am coaching the players to play that way or I am allowing them to play that way. Neither is acceptable from a coach, I dang sure know that I am not teaching you that way and I can guarantee you from this point on I will never allow it ever again either." I would say based on that I am shaking up the starting lineup during practice tomorrow on Monday and you have a choice on how you respond to it, you can pout and if you do it will be evident and you will stay as a reserve or you can battle your ass off tomorrow in practice and be coachable and take the coaching and execute what your position coaches have instructed you on ALL YEAR and if you do that you will be in a great spot to earn your starting spot back. The team we play Thursday is not a team that you can be lethargic against, you cant be careless you cant have ONE SINGLE SECOND WHERE YOU ARE NOT DIALED IN. If you have lapses of laser like focus, lapses of a bulldog tenacity etc etc it will cost us and we will pay for it severely and we cant allow that so you will be sitting on the bench. Just my thoughts

DixieZag
03-19-2017, 10:25 AM
Iowa State flushed them in the last game of the season and you would think so with Iowa State's ball-handlers. The other aspect is Iowa State threw down their own little half court press which generated 10 turnovers in the 1st half alone!

The really good teams at the press try to use the pressure of the timeline to create panic and generate a self-inflicted error by the offense. Don't foul or go for steal--unless it is right there. Get them the offense to plow into you, throw it out of bounds, etc.

I would like to imagine Few rotating a substitution switch of Tillie - JWIII as an offense/defense rotation based on who has the ball. 23/36 on FTs folks. That is not going to get it done. I don't know if Karno is going to get much time on court but we will see. I think a Melson, NWG, Mathews, Tillie, and Collins group would be a good group to break the press. I think they would be smart to keep passing lanes open, not prematurely pick up dribble, etc.

The key is the press seems to generate WVU's offense and if they aren't generating points from the press, they can struggle on the offensive side at times. I think ND's defense was pretty lackluster. WVU's performance will be a high bar to maintain - over 57% from 3PT when normally 46%? FT% over 80 when normally under 69? Meanwhile Zags know they haven't played their best and still have an opportunity to right the ship. The time is now.

Pressing teams hate being pressed. I agree that we need to do some. I also think we should zone some of the game since they aren't a 3 ball team (neither are we, apparently).

I'm just happy that it will help keep our guys from getting so tentative and possibly sitting on the lead we're likely to jump out and get.

The entire country now knows that we can be up by any number at half and we ensure the other team comes back.

Meanwhile, we might want to temper talking about how great our defense is, having given up 53 in one half to Northwestern.

MDABE80
03-19-2017, 10:36 AM
Experienced guards will beat any press. This is the week Few and coaches ork on that. I'm not worried. we have athletic guards who know the game. WVU has 2 6 9 kid, 6 8 an guards are 6 1 and 6 2. A few atyhletes but they'd go to ar for Huggins. It's be a great game. I don't care that we've beten WVU 3 tims. This is a new group. We best the presd but it's their ongoing game long defense.
I think Jazz's 5 is reasonable.......quite good for this particular game.

I wonder if Josh will dye his hair orange this week. "See me, feel me"....on national TV! lolol Poor guy. Love the kid.

kitzbuel
03-19-2017, 10:38 AM
As my dad would say, we need to score more points than they do.

Critical

jazzdelmar
03-19-2017, 10:39 AM
I am not going to use names because I do agree that we shouldn't be too harsh on players here on the message board I don't want to do single out players in a negative way, so this would be my recipe to win = I would have a meeting tonight back at campus and as a coach I would instruct the players that upon review of the film it is obvious some of you played way to casual and laid back in that second half of last game and some of you have been doing that for about a month now. As the coach that is far too long for that t continue and at some point I have to ask myself as a coach "either I am coaching the players to play that way or I am allowing them to play that way. Neither is acceptable from a coach, I dang sure know that I am not teaching you that way and I can guarantee you from this point on I will never allow it ever again either." I would say based on that I am shaking up the starting lineup during practice tomorrow on Monday and you have a choice on how you respond to it, you can pout and if you do it will be evident and you will stay as a reserve or you can battle your ass off tomorrow in practice and be coachable and take the coaching and execute what your position coaches have instructed you on ALL YEAR and if you do that you will be in a great spot to earn your starting spot back. The team we play Thursday is not a team that you can be lethargic against, you cant be careless you cant have ONE SINGLE SECOND WHERE YOU ARE NOT DIALED IN. If you have lapses of laser like focus, lapses of a bulldog tenacity etc etc it will cost us and we will pay for it severely and we cant allow that so you will be sitting on the bench. Just my thoughts

D, agree some players need to hear this. Even the 4 Bulldogs that won the game at the end, NWG, Tillie, Collins, Mathews would be inspired. Sadly, some players are past the point of benefitting from such a tongue lashing, which I can't imagine Few delivering anyway. But your head and heart are in the right place.

kitzbuel
03-19-2017, 10:44 AM
We have 5 tough minded kids -- NWG, Wms, Collins, Tillie and Mathews. They are unafraid of the spotlight and of failing....there's your best 5 for WVU.

Shem without a doubt is really needed for depth and change of pace. Melson getting time for his ball handling is also important. Tillie and Collins for all intents and purposes are no longer freshmen. They were rock solid at the end of the NU game and are going to be relied upon.

Stache
03-19-2017, 10:44 AM
ND also got trapped in the half court with passes into the baseline corners. We have to be ready to make quick, smart decisions so that we don't hold the ball. We have faced WVU and their press and done well in the past. Expecting more of the same

bigblahla
03-19-2017, 10:56 AM
I am not going to use names because I do agree that we shouldn't be too harsh on players here on the message board I don't want to do single out players in a negative way, so this would be my recipe to win = I would have a meeting tonight back at campus and as a coach I would instruct the players that upon review of the film it is obvious some of you played way to casual and laid back in that second half of last game and some of you have been doing that for about a month now. As the coach that is far too long for that t continue and at some point I have to ask myself as a coach "either I am coaching the players to play that way or I am allowing them to play that way. Neither is acceptable from a coach, I dang sure know that I am not teaching you that way and I can guarantee you from this point on I will never allow it ever again either." I would say based on that I am shaking up the starting lineup during practice tomorrow on Monday and you have a choice on how you respond to it, you can pout and if you do it will be evident and you will stay as a reserve or you can battle your ass off tomorrow in practice and be coachable and take the coaching and execute what your position coaches have instructed you on ALL YEAR and if you do that you will be in a great spot to earn your starting spot back. The team we play Thursday is not a team that you can be lethargic against, you cant be careless you cant have ONE SINGLE SECOND WHERE YOU ARE NOT DIALED IN. If you have lapses of laser like focus, lapses of a bulldog tenacity etc etc it will cost us and we will pay for it severely and we cant allow that so you will be sitting on the bench. Just my thoughts

Doubt there's a fan here who doesn't know what you are talking about and no name(s) is awesome it was about 4 casual laid back attitude possessions in a row that gave them hope and got the mid-landers back in the game...tape to learn from...

Go!! Zags!!!

RenoZag
03-19-2017, 11:34 AM
S-R's Jacob Thorpe on the challenge of facing the Mountaineers: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/mar/18/west-virginias-high-pressure-d-will-be-tough-test-/


ALT LAKE CITY – Notre Dame entered Saturday’s second-round NCAA Tournament game averaging a little over nine turnovers per game, one of the best marks in the country. They’d given the ball up that many times by halftime of their eventual 83-71 loss to West Virginia.

That ‘Press Virginia’ defense will present a challenge unlike anything No. 1 seed Gonzaga has seen this year when the teams face off in the Sweet 16 on Thursday. WVU only puts athletes on the floor – there is no stoic big man – and they will press and trap teams the entire length of the court.

In fact, the Mountaineers caused havoc even before the ball was inbounded on Saturday, denying the Notre Dame guards the initial pass frequently after made baskets and even forcing a five-second call.

Nobody forces more turnovers than West Virginia (20.3 per game) and they force opponents to turn the ball over on 28-percent of all possessions. No other team in in Division I does it more than 26 percent of the time.

Pleasant Peninsula
03-19-2017, 11:44 AM
We have 5 tough minded kids -- NWG, Wms, Collins, Tillie and Mathews. They are unafraid of the spotlight and of failing....there's your best 5 for WVU.

I agree with you, except with that press we're gonna need another ball handler in there at many times. Mellon and/or Perkins is going to need to step up on Thursday. At this point I have more faith in Melson. Would really love to see Perkins prove me wrong and just play a solid, smart, doesn't need to be spectacular, game.

demian
03-19-2017, 12:34 PM
D, agree some players need to hear this. Even the 4 Bulldogs that won the game at the end, NWG, Tillie, Collins, Mathews would be inspired. Sadly, some players are past the point of benefitting from such a tongue lashing, which I can't imagine Few delivering anyway. But your head and heart are in the right place.

yeah you may be very correct Jazz. It may be too late for that kind of a talk. Gosh I hope not but that is possible for sure. Lol your comment about not inmaging Few delivering that kind of tongue lashing anyway gave me a good little chuckle lol.

demian
03-19-2017, 12:37 PM
Doubt there's a fan here who doesn't know what you are talking about and no name(s) is awesome it was about 4 casual laid back attitude possessions in a row that gave them hope and got the mid-landers back in the game...tape to learn from...

Go!! Zags!!!

Yep you are correct it was a really weird stretch that you described. I couldn't really even believe my eyes. The game film evaluation had to be rather interesting to watch as a staff

TexasZagFan
03-19-2017, 12:49 PM
D, agree some players need to hear this. Even the 4 Bulldogs that won the game at the end, NWG, Tillie, Collins, Mathews would be inspired. Sadly, some players are past the point of benefitting from such a tongue lashing, which I can't imagine Few delivering anyway. But your head and heart are in the right place.

Short of an injured player, I don't like the idea of changing the rotation at the start of the game. Our first five have worked together for the first 4-6 minutes for the past 3 months. The next three have gotten used to coming into the game after that. The issues were poor defense and sloppy ball handling in the second half. I trust the coaches to get that fixed.

ZagLawGrad
03-19-2017, 12:57 PM
Short of an injured player, I don't like the idea of changing the rotation at the start of the game. Our first five have worked together for the first 4-6 minutes for the past 3 months. The next three have gotten used to coming into the game after that. The issues were poor defense and sloppy ball handling in the second half. I trust the coaches to get that fixed.

No doubt, can't change overnight what got Zags this far. The guys coming off the bench are used to being able to see what is happening on the floor for a few minutes and then coming in ready to go with the game situation.

demian
03-19-2017, 01:14 PM
to answer the original posters question of "How on earth do we beat Press Virginia?" = I don't think we will beat them!! By the time we play West Virginia in sweet 16 it will have been a month since we have played a good 40 minutes of basketball consecutively in a game. I don't think at the sweet 16 level that kind of crap produces winning results. Just my opinion. Oh yeah and I HOPE I AM 100% wrong

Hoopaholic
03-19-2017, 01:19 PM
Short of an injured player, I don't like the idea of changing the rotation at the start of the game. Our first five have worked together for the first 4-6 minutes for the past 3 months. The next three have gotten used to coming into the game after that. The issues were poor defense and sloppy ball handling in the second half. I trust the coaches to get that fixed.


Up 20 at the 13 minute mark 55-35. Collins and tille in. At the 8:50 mark Shem and Williams returned the score was 59-50
NW goes on 15-4 run with the freshman in the game during this 6 minute segment

Collins with 2 turnovers during this time frame and 1 made free throws
Goss turnover
Melson turnover
Tille turnover and 1 free throw made
4 fouls during this time period
4 turnovers
2 free throws
1 made basket


But. Everyone is ignoring this and suddenly new starters are needed

Once the big mo changed it became a dog fight


For me that was the 6 minute segment that killed us and our momentum

demian
03-19-2017, 01:24 PM
Up 20 at the 13 minute mark 55-35. Collins and tille in. At the 8:50 mark Shem and Williams returned the score was 59-50
NW goes on 15-4 run with the freshman in the game during this 6 minute segment

Collins with 2 turnovers during this time frame and 1 made free throws
Goss turnover
Melson turnover
Tille turnover and 1 free throw made
4 fouls during this time period
4 turnovers
2 free throws
1 made basket


But. Everyone is ignoring this and suddenly new starters are needed

Once the big mo changed it became a dog fight


For me that was the 6 minute segment that killed us and our momentum

Nice job with the breakdown of that stretch. Good info provided by you

uZiGiZaG
03-19-2017, 02:09 PM
You just have to get them into a halfcourt game. There is a reason Few has beaten WVU 3x in a row. I'm telling you, they will be just about the least talented team in the sweet 16. There is a reason why Huggins implements that all out press. It's to cover up problems they have.

This is one game where I seriously might consider starting Melson over Perkins. Taking care of the ball is more important than having JP's 3 pt. shot. It's not like Melson can't score.

Morgantown, WV is nearly 2700 miles from San Jose. GU is not going to face the kind of crowd they did today.

Uh.. you are way off.

WVU is an extremely talented team and are no where close to the worst teams in the Sweet 16..

And Huggins doesn't press to cover up problems .. he presses Bc that's his system Bc A.) It works and B.) it creates chaos, panic, and speeds up the opponent without giving them time to think and process what's happening

JPW314159
03-19-2017, 02:13 PM
some of you are acting like WVU are gods because ND played like garbage today...Jerry West isn't suiting up for them. We'll be well up for this one and they won't shoot as well as they did today. Its better to play them with more time to prepare...ND wasnt ready for the press today and it showed

I wish West Virginia would suit up Jerry West. He's 78 years old. Our guards could post up the logo. 78 year old men lose a lot of bounce. On the other hand, if he beats us we will forever hear that we were over-rated. Maybe instead we could have Mark Few take on Huggy Bear one-on-one in a walk on your hands challenge. That one we could win with a literal walk-on. (I think it's time to take a break from watching the tournament. I'm punch drunk from watching 43 games-so far-in 3 1/2 days.)

zagray
03-19-2017, 03:28 PM
By playing fearless basketball, letting the chips fall where they fall. Be the Hunter! This team is struggling mentally, going thru stretches of poor play. Fear of failure and defeat have distracted them, If they can overcome this the sky will be the limit!

Zagceo
03-19-2017, 03:59 PM
Up 20 at the 13 minute mark 55-35. Collins and tille in. At the 8:50 mark Shem and Williams returned the score was 59-50
NW goes on 15-4 run with the freshman in the game during this 6 minute segment

Collins with 2 turnovers during this time frame and 1 made free throws
Goss turnover
Melson turnover
Tille turnover and 1 free throw made
4 fouls during this time period
4 turnovers
2 free throws
1 made basket


But. Everyone is ignoring this and suddenly new starters are needed

Once the big mo changed it became a dog fight


For me that was the 6 minute segment that killed us and our momentum

14:19 Zach Block
14:00 Zach layup fouled
14:00 made free throw
13:33 Zach layup fouled
13:33 Zach made free throw
13:22 Tillie block
13:05 Tillie off reb
12:59 Tillie layup
12:08 Tillie free throw
10:12 Zach block
09:47 Zach OFF REB
09:10 Tillie DEF REB
08:57 Zach made 2 FT

Coach Crazy
03-19-2017, 04:17 PM
Aside from what has already been stated, teams that press the way WVU does are trying to coral into bad positions on the court and so they can take away passing opportunities, as well as trap hard. They want on-ball steals, and if they can't, create enough chaos to aid in disrupting passing lanes passing lanes.

The key is not to be undisciplined and start taking what they give you. Once you feel too much ease in your path, bait the defender and redirect your path. Get your defender to turn his hips and then go at him. Try to get the foul count in your favor and take away some potential aggression on their part. As well, make the defender work harder than you do. As well, bring players up into 3/4 court and 1/2 to screen your ball handler free. You can get creative with that. Create as much work as possible, and make it physical. When you get into the half court, work your sets. All that extra time on defense adds up. Doesn't mean that you don't still get out and run, you just do it on your terms.

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-19-2017, 06:40 PM
By playing fearless basketball, letting the chips fall where they fall. Be the Hunter! This team is struggling mentally, going thru stretches of poor play. Fear of failure and defeat have distracted them, If they can overcome this the sky will be the limit!

Watched a lot of games today and think this post by zagray sums up what Zags need to do to advance into Elite Eight. Players stepping up, playing fearless and aggressive...those are the teams that win. It's just a game Zags; play it, don't overthink it.

CDC84
03-19-2017, 06:48 PM
Uh.. you are way off.

WVU is an extremely talented team and are no where close to the worst teams in the Sweet 16..

And Huggins doesn't press to cover up problems .. he presses Bc that's his system Bc A.) It works and B.) it creates chaos, panic, and speeds up the opponent without giving them time to think and process what's happening

West Virginia doesn't have a single player on the 2017 and 2018 mock lists at draftexpress.com. No pro prospects. Very few teams in the S-16 will be lacking such pro prospects.

Full court pressing teams rarely do well in the latter rounds of the NCAA tourney as the guard play gets better. The elite teams do not turn the ball over against such a press. Full court pressing also tends to be immensely more effective when playing at home (which adds to the chaos you speak of), but Huggy's guys won't be at home.. They are playing 2700 miles from home. If Huggins were getting the kind of recruits Kansas gets, I would 100% guarantee you he would not be pressing like his West Virginia teams do. He's got players, and most of all, he has experience. Otherwise he wouldn't be here. But the full court pressing thing is something he teaches his teams to do, in part, because he can't get top tier Big 12 players at UWV.

None of what I am saying should be mistaken as an indication that I don't believe WVU can beat Gonzaga. They can. The guards - particularly Perkins - can be very fast and loose with the basketball. I am seriously concerned about this. But they will not be beating Gonzaga because of a talent differential.

FWIW - my sister is a West Virginia grad, so I have no ax to grind. I actually wish this game weren't happening.

DixieZag
03-19-2017, 06:50 PM
Watched a lot of games today and think this post by zagray sums up what Zags need to do to advance into Elite Eight. Players stepping up, playing fearless and aggressive...those are the teams that win. It's just a game Zags; play it, don't overthink it.

Totally agree.

So much so that I'd rather it be a 3 point game at half than be up 13. And I'm not kidding about that. Every time we let a team come roaring back, and outside the weak teams of the WCC, we do, we invite them to actually get over the hump and we're playing with fire. We haven't played a team this good this year. Arizona was down 2 men at the time, not playing well, besides.

I think we can win, closest thing we've played to a game like this would be Florida. And boy did we get down to them - good. It makes us fight to the end, and if we fight to the end of this game, I think we've got a good chance.

ZagLawGrad
03-19-2017, 06:53 PM
West Virginia gave up 80 points against both Bucknell Thursday and Iowa State last weekend.

That press has some issues.

CDC84
03-19-2017, 06:56 PM
West Virginia gave up 80 points against both Bucknell Thursday and Iowa State last weekend.

That press has some issues.

Bucknell has excellent guard play. If you don't turn the ball over, almost any decent team has a chance against them. The more talent you have, the better chance you have. It cannot be said enough how much experience is on that UWV team. It helps.

The Turner guys (Seth, etc.) summed it up perfectly after that night's games....if you allow them to turn you over at their season average or above (and you must factor in that UWV played just about the worst non-league sked of any team in the nation), you run a real risk of losing. If you keep the turnovers to a reasonable level, and if you have talent and run good half court offense, you have a good chance of beating them.....especially if you run them off the three line.

maynard g krebs
03-19-2017, 09:13 PM
The way I see it, this game is pretty much gonna turn on how it's officiated. If a reasonable number of fouls are called for the reaching and bumping WVA does with that press, the Zags should win the game.

If WVA can go whack-a-mole with impunity, Zags lose. That's what it boils down to. CBS likes close games. If the Zags get a big lead, the whistles will turn and the score will tighten. It may or may not have anything to do with how the Zags play.

Zagceo
03-20-2017, 01:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrTwgHGVads&feature=youtu.be

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-20-2017, 02:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrTwgHGVads&feature=youtu.be

Great interview. Brey speaks so candidly and relaxed and definitely informative of what Zags will be facing Thurs

T-bonedazag
03-20-2017, 03:15 AM
http://www.dominionpost.com/Gonzaga’s-board-strength-a-conce

Article from The Dominion Post about GU's rebounding. WV is a tough team to beat but so are we. I'm excited for the game and I think that our size can be a big factor. What is the number of turnovers we should be hoping for to secure a win. Under 12? Under 15?

Goshzagit
03-20-2017, 05:42 AM
http://www.coachesclipboard.net/PressBreak.html

use our height too, as a safety valve. not just about dribbling, but about players moving to the ball to receive a pass. up to every play to find the open spot in the defense.

every player needs to know their role.

most importantly: stay calm.

No panic.

krozman
03-20-2017, 05:57 AM
Toughest team they will face all week will be themselves.....in practice.

DixieZag
03-20-2017, 06:01 AM
It's probably also important for the team to not let the press to consume their focus and make it even more than it is. It's a big deal, but not the only deal. Syracuse lived in our head for 5 days last year with their gimmick trapping zone (thank god we had KW to shoot over it).

It seems that if one deals with it, the benefit is that they're not as good a defensive team in the halfcourt and maybe can't guard us one on one down low.

Life would be so much easier if we had someone hot from 3 - Mathews is getting his strike back, some.

Once and Future Zag
03-20-2017, 06:19 AM
http://www.dominionpost.com/Gonzaga’s-board-strength-a-conce

Article from The Dominion Post about GU's rebounding. WV is a tough team to beat but so are we. I'm excited for the game and I think that our size can be a big factor. What is the number of turnovers we should be hoping for to secure a win. Under 12? Under 15?

Interesting comment in there...


WVU head coach Bob Huggins and Few are good friends, with Huggins crediting Few this season for introducing other methods other than just the RPI — such as ESPN’s BPI rankings and Ken Pomeroy’s offensive efficiency ratings — for the NCAA selection committee to use as tools in selecting at-large teams for the NCAA tournament.

ZagLawGrad
03-20-2017, 06:33 AM
The way I see it, this game is pretty much gonna turn on how it's officiated. If a reasonable number of fouls are called for the reaching and bumping WVA does with that press, the Zags should win the game.

If WVA can go whack-a-mole with impunity, Zags lose. That's what it boils down to. CBS likes close games. If the Zags get a big lead, the whistles will turn and the score will tighten. It may or may not have anything to do with how the Zags play.

Agreed. And Zags gotta make their FTs.

Goshzagit
03-20-2017, 06:43 AM
Silas and Collins will be key.

Both can fly past their defenders at their position.

Melson has been very good at breaking presses. He was brilliant vs Iowa St and Tennessee.

Literally "cut" and slipped through traps. A remarkable ability.

I hope the staff remembers those games and how good Silas was at leading with the dribble than body and....zoom. Took his chances at a foul or getting past his defender.

Perkins dribbled backwards and surveyed. Its the reason Silas was in, because Perkins pulled back. Cannot do that unless you have an open man to pass to.

Also, Collins. He is taller than most, can run, jump, is quick for his size. Will need to play at half-court. To either screen or be utilized as a safety net for our guards.

Don't wait for the ball, go get the ball.

john montana
03-20-2017, 06:51 AM
Key will be getting out in front of the foul count. The guards have to be excited to play into the contact on the press and draw some fouls. If we get into the bonus and are shooting they have to back way off on the swiping and grabbing.

Zagsker
03-20-2017, 06:53 AM
..

MickMick
03-20-2017, 07:46 AM
Key will be getting out in front of the foul count. The guards have to be excited to play into the contact on the press and draw some fouls. If we get into the bonus and are shooting they have to back way off on the swiping and grabbing.

Agreed. This is on NWG to draw contact. Preferably in transition where the defense is out of position.

Hoopaholic
03-20-2017, 08:02 AM
Silas and Collins will be key.

Both can fly past their defenders at their position.

Melson has been very good at breaking presses. He was brilliant vs Iowa St and Tennessee.

Literally "cut" and slipped through traps. A remarkable ability.

I hope the staff remembers those games and how good Silas was at leading with the dribble than body and....zoom. Took his chances at a foul or getting past his defender.

Perkins dribbled backwards and surveyed. Its the reason Silas was in, because Perkins pulled back. Cannot do that unless you have an open man to pass to.

Also, Collins. He is taller than most, can run, jump, is quick for his size. Will need to play at half-court. To either screen or be utilized as a safety net for our guards.

Don't wait for the ball, go get the ball.

fundamentally you are taught when you see a double team coming to back off with dribble as this gives you better passing angles, ability to see the court better as well as far better angles to attack the outside shoulder of one of the upcoming defenders

LongIslandZagFan
03-20-2017, 08:22 AM
I trust the coaching staff's ability to draw up very good game plans to kill the press. I think people put way too much into this.

I'm going to just throw this out there... BUCKNELL put up 80 against this defense... If the Zags hit 80... they are winning this game... period.

Hoopaholic
03-20-2017, 08:31 AM
I trust the coaching staff's ability to draw up very good game plans to kill the press. I think people put way too much into this.

I'm going to just throw this out there... BUCKNELL put up 80 against this defense... If the Zags hit 80... they are winning this game... period.

totally agree

keep in mind our defense is far better than Bucknell's too

and we have far different horses than bucknell protecting the paint (big and takes up space, agile and quick foot yet 7 feet tall, intense/active and athletic and a 6'10 muck it up player who is active and has nose for ball)

zagfan24
03-20-2017, 08:43 AM
Watching South Carolina handle Duke's press (which I realize is not as constant or well-practiced) last night really highlighted the importance of the pass recipient. The SC players were notably aggressive going to the ball, not passively waiting for the pass to arrive. And when they did advance, they scored. Right away. No dribbling it out, bleeding the clock nonsense.

MountaineerLegion
03-20-2017, 09:12 AM
West Virginia doesn't have a single player on the 2017 and 2018 mock lists at draftexpress.com. No pro prospects. Very few teams in the S-16 will be lacking such pro prospects.

Full court pressing teams rarely do well in the latter rounds of the NCAA tourney as the guard play gets better. The elite teams do not turn the ball over against such a press. Full court pressing also tends to be immensely more effective when playing at home (which adds to the chaos you speak of), but Huggy's guys won't be at home.. They are playing 2700 miles from home. If Huggins were getting the kind of recruits Kansas gets, I would 100% guarantee you he would not be pressing like his West Virginia teams do. He's got players, and most of all, he has experience. Otherwise he wouldn't be here. But the full court pressing thing is something he teaches his teams to do, in part, because he can't get top tier Big 12 players at UWV.

None of what I am saying should be mistaken as an indication that I don't believe WVU can beat Gonzaga. They can. The guards - particularly Perkins - can be very fast and loose with the basketball. I am seriously concerned about this. But they will not be beating Gonzaga because of a talent differential.

FWIW - my sister is a West Virginia grad, so I have no ax to grind. I actually wish this game weren't happening.

Rank/Team/% Increase in TO against WVU

#6/UVA/33%

#1/Baylor/55%

#11/Baylor/27%

#2/KU/1%

#3/KU/14%

Interestingly the team that did the best, KU, lost by 16 in Morgantown and but for probably the biggest choke job in school history would have lost at home.

Zagceo
03-20-2017, 09:13 AM
The aggressive nature of WV on the Off glass should provide a few fast break opportunities.

gonstu
03-20-2017, 11:47 AM
Uh.. you are way off.

WVU is an extremely talented team and are no where close to the worst teams in the Sweet 16..

And Huggins doesn't press to cover up problems .. he presses Bc that's his system Bc A.) It works and B.) it creates chaos, panic, and speeds up the opponent without giving them time to think and process what's happening

I've got no dog in this fight but you're the one that seems to be off. Listening to gary parish podcast from Thurs and he brings up talking to huggins about why he moved to this heavy press defense. apparently, per GP, huggins said that he had to because he doesn't get the same type of caliber/skilled basketball players as other blueblood programs get. so whether or not you agree with the wording of "hiding" weaknesses, it seems the idea has some validity - from the horse's mouth!

former1dog
03-20-2017, 11:58 AM
Play smart, heads up offense from the inbound for 94 feet. Stay out of the corners, look up court for passes and fast break opportunities. Bigs are your friends over the top. They've got this!!

gonstu
03-20-2017, 12:00 PM
Question for those who've watched WV (I haven't seen either of their tourney games).

Once the opponent successfully breaks the press, what is their defense like then? M2M? Zone? Continue the press w/ trapping?

former1dog
03-20-2017, 12:06 PM
Question for those who've watched WV (I haven't seen either of their tourney games).

Once the opponent successfully breaks the press, what is their defense like then? M2M? Zone? Continue the press w/ trapping?


They mix it up and in the Big 12 tourney went to a 1-3-1 zone, successfully to come back against Kansas State but to the opposite effect versus Iowa State where they got their butt's kicked.

MountaineerLegion
03-20-2017, 12:59 PM
They mix it up and in the Big 12 tourney went to a 1-3-1 zone, successfully to come back against Kansas State but to the opposite effect versus Iowa State where they got their butt's kicked.

6 pts to a top 25 team? In a conference championship game which, for all intents and purposes, was a home game for them? By that measure we kicked Bucknells' butts (+6) and obliterated ND (+12). For context how would you describe an 8 pt loss to BYU? I'm hoping this was a good natured troll job.

gonstu - We play almost exclusively man to man. Every so often Huggs will switch it up to a 1-3-1 if our defense has significantly lost the momentum. Recently, when he's done it it's been late in games. It did work successfully against KState. Contrary to formerdog1's statement it did not have the opposite effect against ISU. I can't find the exact time we switched to the 1-3-1 but with 10 minutes to go we were down by 9. 5 to go down by 7. Finished down 6. Not exactly the opposite effect, it just didn't help enough.

Hoopaholic
03-20-2017, 01:03 PM
6 pts to a top 25 team? In a conference championship game which, for all intents and purposes, was a home game for them? By that measure we kicked Bucknells' butts (+6) and obliterated ND (+12). For context how would you describe an 8 pt loss to BYU? I'm hoping this was a good natured troll job.

gonstu - We play almost exclusively man to man. Every so often Huggs will switch it up to a 1-3-1 if our defense has significantly lost the momentum. Recently, when he's done it it's been late in games. It did work successfully against KState. Contrary to formerdog1's statement it did not have the opposite effect against ISU. I can't find the exact time we switched to the 1-3-1 but with 10 minutes to go we were down by 9. 5 to go down by 7. Finished down 6. Not exactly the opposite effect, it just didn't help enough.

our sole loss was directly attributed to an 8 minute let down.......if we have an 8 minute let down against you guys we are watching your team celebrate

MountaineerLegion
03-20-2017, 01:24 PM
our sole loss was directly attributed to an 8 minute let down.......if we have an 8 minute let down against you guys we are watching your team celebrate

I can feel your pain. With 3 min to go we lost a 14 pt lead to miss a sweep of KU. BBall is a game of runs, it happens, even to undefeated teams. I'm not counting on another let down from you all though. You're a one seed for a reason.

Hoopaholic
03-20-2017, 01:38 PM
I can feel your pain. With 3 min to go we lost a 14 pt lead to miss a sweep of KU. BBall is a game of runs, it happens, even to undefeated teams. I'm not counting on another let down from you all though. You're a one seed for a reason.

watched it.....was painful

gonstu
03-20-2017, 01:41 PM
wait - isn't the 1-3-1 what byu used against us...?!? zags have seemed hesitant and not fluid against the zone imo

JPtheBeasta
03-20-2017, 01:42 PM
They mix it up and in the Big 12 tourney went to a 1-3-1 zone, successfully to come back against Kansas State but to the opposite effect versus Iowa State where they got their butt's kicked.

The way we are shooting, the 1-3-1 zone scares me more than their trap.

Hoopaholic
03-20-2017, 01:42 PM
The way we are shooting, the 1-3-1 zone scares me more than their trap.

Shem and collins eats this type zone up

gonstu
03-20-2017, 01:44 PM
The way we are shooting, the 1-3-1 zone scares me more than their trap.

Agreed - if they play mostly m2m but their video review shows zag weakness attacking zone, i wonder what they'll do. it will be fun to watch the chess match unfold and which team executes

U Zig, I Zag
03-20-2017, 01:48 PM
1-3-1 will see Zag bigs shooting 75%. I can't imagine they will play that a ton. Man to man, backing off a bit in the halfcourt and forcing the Zags to shoot some 3's (and missing them) will embolden WVU. Same way it did for SDst and NW. I can see a 2-3 giving us more fits.

former1dog
03-20-2017, 02:36 PM
Contrary to formerdog1's statement it did not have the opposite effect against ISU.
All due respect, I'm sure you know your team better than I do, but you guys came back and beat KSU, whereas you lost to ISU.... My definition of an opposite effect, but perhaps not as subtle as you layed it out.

Thanks for coming by. I enjoy your posts.

zagirl2k
03-20-2017, 04:01 PM
This is definitely a better game to have as a Thursday game with a week to prep/game plan, rather than a 1 day turn around on Saturday.

I have faith the coaching staff will have the guys ready to go.

Dahlaw
03-20-2017, 04:18 PM
Uh.. you are way off.

WVU is an extremely talented team and are no where close to the worst teams in the Sweet 16..

And Huggins doesn't press to cover up problems .. he presses Bc that's his system Bc A.) It works and B.) it creates chaos, panic, and speeds up the opponent without giving them time to think and process what's happening


I would actually agree from an NBA standpoint or even recruiting standpoint WVU would be in the bottom 25% of the sweet 16. It's not about beating the press. I can count on one had the number of 10 second calls we got all year. In fact I only recall one and I watched every single game. Maybe we got a few against the teams we beat by 35+ in December. But maybe not. I was probaly too deep in bourbon to remember. . Press Virginia is about speeding up the game. Getting deflections, confusion and most importantly getting more shots. Goal is 40 defelections a game. Literally had nothing to do with "beating" the press.

If we shoot well we are pretty solid. If not. Pretty bad. But that's most teams.

Like most teams we have a lot of banged up guys this time of year. And had a lot of travel to conference games. Which I'm sure GU is accustomed to as well. The closed big 12 school is 800+ miles and that's ISU which we beat both home and away. Lost in Big 12 final. If Carter and Adrian can get to 100% I think we are a pretty good team.

But I don't expect to win this game for what it's worth. So im not making excuses.

I'd really like to go out for this one. If it weren't 18 hours and three flights to get there I'd go for sure. Never been to San Jose. Hear good things about the area. Looks like a ton of amazing restaurants. Safe travels to all heading out for what seems to look like a pretty exciting game.

MountaineerLegion
03-20-2017, 04:38 PM
I would actually agree from an NBA standpoint or even recruiting standpoint WVU would be in the bottom 25% of the sweet 16. It's not about beating the press. I can count on one had the number of 10 second calls we got all year. In fact I only recall one and I watched every single game. Maybe we got a few against the teams we beat by 35+ in December. But maybe not. I was probaly too deep in bourbon to remember. . Press Virginia is about speeding up the game. Getting deflections, confusion and most importantly getting more shots. Goal is 40 defelections a game. Literally had nothing to do with "beating" the press.

If we shoot well we are pretty solid. If not. Pretty bad. But that's most teams.

Like most teams we have a lot of banged up guys this time of year. And had a lot of travel to conference games. Which I'm sure GU is accustomed to as well. The closed big 12 school is 800+ miles and that's ISU which we beat both home and away. Lost in Big 12 final. If Carter and Adrian can get to 100% I think we are a pretty good team.

But I don't expect to win this game for what it's worth. So im not making excuses.

I'd really like to go out for this one. If it weren't 18 hours and three flights to get there I'd go for sure. Never been to San Jose. Hear good things about the area. Looks like a ton of amazing restaurants. Safe travels to all heading out for what seems to look like a pretty exciting game.

Two extremely good points Dahlaw. How many times have we heard the announcers say WVU keeps track of deflections per game? We also need to own the offensive boards and second chance points.

Zagceo
03-20-2017, 04:41 PM
Two extremely good points Dahlaw. How many times have we heard the announcers say WVU keeps track of deflections per game? We also need to own the offensive boards and second chance points.

Hitting the offensive boards hard as WVU does ......ever have a problem with others countering with fast breaks?

Dahlaw
03-20-2017, 04:48 PM
We are a bum knee and broken wrist from betting solid. But even at full strength would need A LOT of things to go right to knock off a legit 1 seed.

Real question - what are the best bars in Spokane and what's the go to pre game food and beverage like? I mean since it's basically a billion miles away. Figured I'd ask.

Dahlaw
03-20-2017, 05:10 PM
This isn't the O Boarding teams that Huggs usually trademarks. No Kevin Jones on this team and our best player (arguably) from last years team left early for overseas career - Devin Williams. He was a freakish build but not super "jump out of the gym" NBA type. He wasn't going to the NBA even if he was first team AA this year. But he was a real headache for opposing teams Bc no one matched his muscle and strength. Would be nice to have him for Thursday's game.

Macon has come on lately but hasn't been getting the bounces he got in last month of season. He's a junior and 4 star guy that has honestly been horrible until about 4 weeks ago. Many thought he was going to be gone after they season was over.
We had a very high rated player apparently not qualify that's going JUCO so he's staying now - I guess. Maybe he was staying all along - who knows.

Anyway I hate to see guys leave and Macon has been very good lately. I'm really excited for the kid. It's like he just got it one weekend. He uses the glass well but seems the bigger stadiums don't suit his shot because it's been a lot of in and outs since the Big 12 Tourney started.

I know I'm glad that Pargo or whatever guy is gone. Talk about destroying a fun trip to Pittsburgh. Kid lit us up as a freshman I think.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-20-2017, 05:14 PM
This isn't the O Boarding teams that Huggs usually trademarks. No Kevin Jones on this team and our best player (arguably) from last years team left early for overseas career - Devin Williams. He was a freakish build but not super "jump out of the gym" NBA type. He wasn't going to the NBA even if he was first team AA this year. But he was a real headache for opposing teams Bc no one matched his muscle and strength. Would be nice to have him for Thursday's game.

Macon has come on lately but hasn't been getting the bounces he got in last month of season. He's a junior and 4 star guy that has honestly been horrible until about 4 weeks ago. Many thought he was going to be gone after they season was over.
We had a very high rated player apparently not qualify that's going JUCO so he's staying now - I guess. Maybe he was staying all along - who knows.

Anyway I hate to see guys leave and Macon has been very good lately. I'm really excited for the kid. It's like he just got it one weekend. He uses the glass well but seems the bigger stadiums don't suit his shot because it's been a lot of in and outs since the Big 12 Tourney started.

I know I'm glad that Pargo or whatever guy is gone. Talk about destroying a fun trip to Pittsburgh. Kid lit us up as a freshman I think.

Pangos was our PG in Pittsburgh. Pargo had graduated before that game. Not to be confused with Pendo. He also passed on prior to Pittsburgh.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-20-2017, 05:18 PM
Pangos was our PG in Pittsburgh. Pargo had graduated before that game. Not to be confused with Pendo. He also passed on prior to Pittsburgh.

Sorry...my wife told me that I couldn't name our dogs, "Pendo, Pargo, and Pangos." She said it might confuse them.

Dahlaw
03-20-2017, 05:29 PM
Good god. No wonder I got that confused.

scrooner
03-20-2017, 05:42 PM
"Pendo, Pargo, and Pangos"

Then if you get a cat you can name it Przemek.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-20-2017, 05:57 PM
"Pendo, Pargo, and Pangos"

Then if you get a cat you can name it Przemek.

We had a cat named Spangler. He disappeared a few years ago. I told my wife he'd just gotten homesick and transferred back to Oklahoma. She was not amused.

ZagLawGrad
03-20-2017, 08:56 PM
..Williams-Goss said the Bulldogs know what it takes to handle the pressure West Virginia may present because their resiliency is shown with only one loss on the season.

“We don’t think of anything as pressure,” Williams-Goss said. “We had pressure all year long. We were undefeated and we didn’t feel any of that. This is what we live for, what we prepare for and we enjoy doing. We all enjoy competing at the highest level.”....

Because the Mountaineers use the entire length of the court, Huggins employs a deep rotation with 10 players averaging at least 11 minutes played per game. Leading scorer Jevon Carter (13 points per game) is the only Mountaineer to play at least 30 minutes per game (31.7).

The Mountaineers are a team of athletes that lacks a center who matches up in size with Gonzaga’s post player Przemek Karnowski, who is 7-foot-1 and 300 pounds...

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/gonzaga-wary-of-west-virginia-s-pressing-defense-032017

maynard g krebs
03-20-2017, 10:27 PM
Not to be confused with Pendo. He also passed on prior to Pittsburgh.

I think he's still alive.:)

Zag4Hire
03-21-2017, 02:05 AM
Based upon purely this season, there is just one thought they need to keep at the forefront: Be the bully. Stay the bully. When they are running and gunning, the Zags (like other teams that play their way) get very vocal and demonstrative. Since the source is the stifling defense, they seem to understand to generate this enthusiasm, they need to play tough, hard nosed defense. This is exhausting to do and I can see once you do, head into the locker room at half, it can be hard to get it back. You start to sag off on your defensive assignment and then before you know it, the opposition is putting some points on the board. This is where doubt and tentative style comes in. They need to find a way to keep the fire hot. I would say if it is a tough close game going into half, this can do it itself but I would prefer a consistent effort for the 40 minutes. They need to feel they need to run WVU out of the gym.

Be the bully. Stay the bully.

Reborn
03-21-2017, 07:32 AM
The way to beat WV is for the coaches to put together a winning game plan, and for the players to follow it. I've heard Few say, in several interviews this year, that he feels the strength of this years team has been their ability to understand and follow the game plan. When one looks at Gonzaga's record, 34-1 now, you'd have to say that both the coaches and players have done an excellent job doing these things. I have no idea what the game plan will be, but it's going to be different from anything we've seen this year. I say this because WV is like no other team that we have played. So I'd have to say that the best way to beat WV is to follow the game plan. Our coaches are hard working and smart. I believe we have a coaching staff that is equal to or better than any team we play. And now we have the players who can execute any kind of game plan. The reason I love to watch Gonzaga this year is because they have always been prepared to play to their highest level. They have always been prepared to win. And, for sure, they have done this in many different ways, week by week, game by game. You just never know what's going to happen. This team surprises people because we can't predict who will be the stars of the game.

Good luck, Zags! Go get 'em.

Go Zags!!!

Reborn
03-21-2017, 07:42 AM
I forgot something. I really like what William-Goss talked about when asked how he feels the Zags will be able to handle the pressure that WV will put on them, all game long, and all over the court. Goss responded by saying that the Zags have been under pressure all year long. By being the only undefeated team in America the Zags were under pressure every game they played. First under pressure because every team in the conference gave the Zags their best effort. Like has been said many times, they Zags have a huge target on their back. And second, because the media scrutinizes every undefeated team, and when it's Gonzaga who's that team, imo they will be scrutinized and criticized ever step of the way. The Zags are used to playing under pressure, and IMO they will handle it once again on Thursday. I would like to thank the ESPN analysts for preparing Gonzaga to beat WV on Thursday. Thanks!!!

Go Zags!!!

Goshzagit
03-21-2017, 07:53 AM
Man, watching tape on WVU.

There full court press is all in. From the baseline pass until you find a way past half court.

Creates a helter skelter pace to most of their games.

Their guards are what impresses me.

They all have the same move....

Penetrate & fly to the hoop for a high flying "lay up" of sorts, shoot an off balance runner, or draw a foul. They are obviously coached to do this since they all do it.

None of our guards do that, although Melson is capable.

I think we can dedend these guys, as long as we dont let Carter get hot from 3....or their SF.

I still have no idea how out guys will respond ti their press. Hope to be pleasantly surprised, but expecting a ton of TO's. Its better than expected.

bballbeachbum
03-21-2017, 08:29 AM
that guy Nathan Adrian makes a lot happen on their press looks like to me, he's the head of that snake and a smart player. They run all kinds of variations off of the press too, going M2M and then doubling off of it, going zone trap off of it, going half court 1 3 1 trap, playing straight up M2M full court or half court, etc., and looked like Huggy changed it up after timeouts, going hard with the zone press after stoppages often and moreso as that Big XII champ game wore on. looked like beating the first trap with the pass was key for ISU and then attacking the open floor with so many WV defenders caught backcourt behind the play, and ISU looked to make them pay for extending so much and it worked.

I'm psyched to see how Few and co. draw up the Zag defensive gameplan and what the Zags can get off of their D, and on O how they utilize Shem, Zach and the other bigs in defeating the pressure

Zagdawg
03-21-2017, 08:51 AM
I believe we will turn the ball over more than usual --- but our offense and defense will still handle WVU.

kitzbuel
03-21-2017, 08:59 AM
We play our defensive and rebound. Score off of transition and don't give WVU a chance to set their press up.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

GoZag
03-21-2017, 09:01 AM
We had a cat named Spangler. He disappeared a few years ago. I told my wife he'd just gotten homesick and transferred back to Oklahoma. She was not amused.

Now that is the funniest thing I have seen all day. lol

304eer
03-21-2017, 11:45 AM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

gonstu
03-21-2017, 11:49 AM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

You'll find a lot of respect for huggins on this board. The 3-0 record is a fact. But I think most realize the points you're making and that the past 3 wins don't have any impact on the upcoming game. Check out the game prediction thread - it's probably the most losses predicted of any game this year and closest margins.

bballbeachbum
03-21-2017, 11:54 AM
CDC posted this in another thread but fits here so I'm reposting, SSF's analysis
http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2017/3/21/14991112/2017-ncaa-tournament-gonzaga-west-virginia-press-gameplan

TexasZagFan
03-21-2017, 11:56 AM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

Welcome! As you will discover, the Zag Board is comprised of erudite and learned men and women. Accordingly, all I can say is:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkUjHGFVjuDrlTOQUcfNgcIDC85UIYr GHiMilyNeeJQlOZOuO9jw

I'm neither erudite nor learned. It was only by Providence that I landed at DeSmet Hall in August of '72. I'm still trying to figure out how I graduated in 4 years.

Living in North Texas, I was inundated with Big 12 hoops. Saw a lot of WVU games on the telly. Despite recent history, I know anything can happen.

former1dog
03-21-2017, 11:56 AM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

Good points. The GU record of 3-0 versus WVU is only relevant in the context of the coaching battle between Few and Huggins, which I think might actually be 4-0 in favor of Few, as Gonzaga beat Cincinnati back in the day in the NCAA tournament.

Other than that, the teams that are playing now have completely different personnel and resume's than those that played in the past. Furthermore, I don't think WVU ran the press in the 3 games they lost to GU.

Thanks for coming in peace and making a good point.

Zagceo
03-21-2017, 11:57 AM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

as much as your team is different...so is ours. we have 3 former starters on P5 teams starting for us now....and we have our first recruited Micky D coming off the bench....don't forget our 5th year center and we're playing in the state which we've played more games in outside Spokane.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-21-2017, 04:07 PM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

This is undoubtedly the best Mountaineer team Gonzaga has ever played. I have watched quite a few of your games over the season. I believe WVU is the best team Gonzaga has played all year - better than Arizona or Florida. You certainly have the best defensive team the Zags have faced.

I also believe that this Zags team is a uniquely challenging matchup for your team. Our team has really big dudes who can handle the ball really well for really big dudes. They catch and pass better than any quartet of big dudes in college basketball and they can run the floor really well for big dudes - even Karnowski. They will challenge the press differently than other teams. If you don't double team the man mountain, you can't stop him from catching everything thrown anywhere near him, nor can you harass his outlet passes. He has a point guard's vision and passing touch. If you do double team him, the other guys will fast break four on three. Pick your poison.

Mark Few will design a game plan that maximizes his strengths. He has a lot of strengths to maximize. He has an All-American at point guard who is surrounded by smart basketball players. This is the deepest and most complete team he has ever coached. He has beaten Coach Huggins with younger players and fewer weapons.

This is a matchup between one of Coach Huggins' best defensive teams against Coach Few's best defensive team. Both teams are deep and athletic. This should be fun.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-21-2017, 04:18 PM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

And welcome aboard. If geography wasn't such an obstacle, I'd offer you a beer for coming into our hostile den to chat basketball with us.

dhozagfan08
03-21-2017, 05:47 PM
We play our defensive and rebound. Score off of transition and don't give WVU a chance to set their press up.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
I think this is the key that most aren't focusing on enough. Everyone is talking about our offense beating the press. But if our defense is stout like the first half of the NU game and WVU doesn't score, then they can't get their press set up in the first place. I haven't looked up the stats to back this up, but my recollection is that WVU hasn't been a very good offensive team this year. I think the ND game was an anomaly for them offensively, and our defense can shut them down. If we focus on defense and rebounding, the points in transition will come. That's the easiest way to beat the pres IMO.

demian
03-21-2017, 06:04 PM
Good points. The GU record of 3-0 versus WVU is only relevant in the context of the coaching battle between Few and Huggins, which I think might actually be 4-0 in favor of Few, as Gonzaga beat Cincinnati back in the day in the NCAA tournament.

Other than that, the teams that are playing now have completely different personnel and resume's than those that played in the past. Furthermore, I don't think WVU ran the press in the 3 games they lost to GU.

Thanks for coming in peace and making a good point.

You are correct that Few has won 4 games head to head vs Huggins. But Huggins did get one victory vs Few head to head. His Cincinnati team with Kenyon Martin beat us early in the season in either 1999/2000 season or 2000/2001 Season. (I think it was the season after we made our first elite 8 or maybe two seasons after our first elite 8). Remember that was the game Casey Calvary hammered down a dunk right in Kenyon Martins face. But we did in fact lose that game. Cincinnati was the #1 team in country that season and was the clear and away favorite to win the NCAA Title that year had Kenyon martin not broke his leg in the conference tournament game thereby he had to misss rest of season.

Hoopaholic
03-21-2017, 06:42 PM
Good point from my buddy... all of these rumors flying around about Few to the NBA are likely to be a distraction for the team....

Your the only one spreading this rumor and I consider it false (bold face lie)unless you want to come out and provide facts

Hoopaholic
03-21-2017, 06:44 PM
Good point from my buddy... all of these rumors flying around about Few to the NBA are likely to be a distraction for the team....

I have a sneaky opinion that you will disappear once your mountaineers lose thursday

maynard g krebs
03-21-2017, 06:44 PM
Good point from my buddy... all of these rumors flying around about Few to the NBA are likely to be a distraction for the team....

The rumors re Few's trysts with Bigfoot are a much bigger issue.

NotoriousZ
03-21-2017, 06:45 PM
More input from our good buddy Calfan24?

It's time, mods.

gonstu
03-21-2017, 07:27 PM
More input from our good buddy Calfan24?

It's time, mods.

No ban! He's comical! I can't believe he's getting under some people's skin lol that's what he wants!

Hoopaholic
03-21-2017, 09:17 PM
I pulled out my old VHS from 1986.....run and stun by Kevin Mackey dusted it off to get another sense of what huggy bear is up to....and rewatched Norte dame tgame

Huggins absorbed these principles and added some of his own twists

He will trap only those players who are a threat to advance the ball, backing off those who will not or cannot effectively advance the ball.....tille will play critical role and we may see far more of him this game

Huggy bear switched his trap hot spots on Norte dame indicating to me someone is tracking tendencies of the team to then adjust trapping spots

Half court they turned on and off jump traps on pick and roll guards need to be able to recognize and push the outside shoulder or pull back to ballside fill wing

Lastly he had a trigger point in half court and if it plays out like it did with Norte dame...my guess if we move goss to wing like we have tendency to that will be a hot spot trap in half court

Oh baby coaching and point counter point may decide this game

Zagceo
03-21-2017, 09:20 PM
nice work hoop...thx

Calfan24
03-22-2017, 04:25 AM
Your the only one spreading this rumor and I consider it false (bold face lie)unless you want to come out and provide facts

Hard to provide facts yet, just conversations with my buddy. Says Few is trying his best to keep it under raps for now but rumors are flying everywhere.

Everything will come out in time.

Calfan24
03-22-2017, 04:29 AM
Your the only one spreading this rumor and I consider it false (bold face lie)unless you want to come out and provide facts

Seem like there are at least 7 or 8 posts about it on this board alone

MickMick
03-22-2017, 04:49 AM
Hard to provide facts yet, just conversations with my buddy. Says Few is trying his best to keep it under raps for now but rumors are flying everywhere.

Everything will come out in time.


Zing!

TexasZagFan
03-22-2017, 04:50 AM
Seem like there are at least 7 or 8 posts about it on this board alone

Makes sense, considering your posting total is 8 posts.

At least I know who to contact the next time I receive an email from a prince in Nigeria.

GoZags
03-22-2017, 04:54 AM
Hey everyone. I come in peace. Looking forward to a great game this week. But I've got a question for you all that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere on Zags boards.
A few people keep saying that "Few has already beaten WVU 3 times","Few owns Huggins", etc. My response is, yeah, and those 3 games also correlated with a very down period in WVU basketball. We won 19, 13, and 17 games in those seasons and we had tons of players transfer out of and into the program. Only two players on this current team were even on the team the last time we played (Adrian and our 3rd/4th string PF Brandon Watkins). We also didn't play as Press Virginia. We were basically a man-to-man with an occasional 1-3-1 team and had no interior presence. So it's comparing apples to oranges. And the last game we played, we even led for most of the game and our team was very, very average.

I think this is going to be a very good game that could go either way. I'm just saying drawing conclusions from 4+ years ago shouldn't really be relevant to this week

Few also beat Huggins before he got to West Virginia ... in an 8/9 game between GU and Cincy (Huggins had the 8 seed). I think both coaches have added some things since they first met ...

TexasZagFan
03-22-2017, 04:59 AM
Few also beat Huggins before he got to West Virginia ... in an 8/9 game between GU and Cincy (Huggins had the 8 seed). I think both coaches have added some things since they first met ...

Your post was nicer than mine, glad I hit the cancel button. Our record against the Big 12 in the past few years has been pretty good.

Zagceo
03-22-2017, 07:15 AM
Trip

https://twitter.com/ButlerBlue3

gonzagafan62
03-22-2017, 02:27 PM
Good point from my buddy... all of these rumors flying around about Few to the NBA are likely to be a distraction for the team....

Do a search on google ..... there's not one thing that pops up "mark Few to NBA"

So there's no distraction for the team

Fair enough?

Coach Crazy
03-22-2017, 06:02 PM
Do a search on google ..... there's not one thing that pops up "mark Few to NBA"

So there's no distraction for the team

Fair enough?

Not to mention coaching in the NBA doesn't match his coaching style, his X's and O's, and he isn't going to leave this close to being a FF caliber coach, for a place with a ton of pressure, and the chance he would have to start all over if his stint in the NBA didn't work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bballbeachbum
03-22-2017, 08:57 PM
I pulled out my old VHS from 1986.....run and stun by Kevin Mackey dusted it off to get another sense of what huggy bear is up to....and rewatched Norte dame tgame

Huggins absorbed these principles and added some of his own twists

He will trap only those players who are a threat to advance the ball, backing off those who will not or cannot effectively advance the ball.....tille will play critical role and we may see far more of him this game

Huggy bear switched his trap hot spots on Norte dame indicating to me someone is tracking tendencies of the team to then adjust trapping spots

Half court they turned on and off jump traps on pick and roll guards need to be able to recognize and push the outside shoulder or pull back to ballside fill wing

Lastly he had a trigger point in half court and if it plays out like it did with Norte dame...my guess if we move goss to wing like we have tendency to that will be a hot spot trap in half court

Oh baby coaching and point counter point may decide this game

guessing they are going to trap Josh big time whenever possible and in the half court 1 3 1, he'll be his own hot spot, wouldn't be the first time. just want to see the Zags punish them for it, knowing it's coming

GeorgiaZagFan
03-22-2017, 10:04 PM
..the way you beat that press.....is to attack it and score off it....if we are just satisfied getting the ball into the front court and do not take advantage of the 3 on 2 and 2 on 1 opportunities we will struggle. I could see Z.Collins scoring big at the end of those "press breaks"

maynard g krebs
03-22-2017, 11:00 PM
Everything will come out in time.

When it comes to constipation, that's always my motto.

Or, for that matter, Bigfoot giving birth to Few's baby.

MDABE80
03-22-2017, 11:30 PM
It's settled on the court I guess and lots depends on match ups. I'm thinking Few has out guys pretty tuned up for this one. One thing is clear, in the videos of Huggins describing his press and his defense, if their opponents do well against them, two things must happen. 1. Their opponents stay in the middle of the court....not to the corners or the sidelines when they can be trapped. The other thing h emphasizes is spacing, Opponents must keep their spacing to 17 or more feet apart. He thinks his guys can cover that space of 17 or less ft. He knows they can't cover 17 or more feet in spacing.
Something to think about.
We do those two things, AND shoot our normal percentages, we should be fine. FT's are a concern. We MUST make them

Coach Crazy
03-23-2017, 01:17 AM
guessing they are going to trap Josh big time whenever possible and in the half court 1 3 1, he'll be his own hot spot, wouldn't be the first time. just want to see the Zags punish them for it, knowing it's coming

They need to have a big tether with him, at times. That'll shut that down real quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bballbeachbum
03-23-2017, 06:29 AM
The other thing h emphasizes is spacing, Opponents must keep their spacing to 17 or more feet apart. He thinks his guys can cover that space of 17 or less ft. He knows they can't cover 17 or more feet in spacing.

ISU did this great in the Big XII championship game