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zagsfanforlife
03-17-2017, 06:24 AM
Been reading so much about AZ's upcoming 20 point victory over SMC and how SMC has no chance at all vs the Cats..

The current line is only 3.5 points. For those super confident that this will not be any type of game.. here is your chance to get rich. Get on that line before it increases.

I know Dan Dakich will.... he said SMC is the "most overrated team in the history of College Basketball".

dhozagfan08
03-17-2017, 06:28 AM
If only sports betting was legal in WA.

DixieZag
03-17-2017, 06:29 AM
Take SMC out of the WCC, drop the exact same team into the Pac and he'd be talking about how tough Landale is, that the guards shoot like ...

He's the only guy out there who doesn't even pretend to analyze past conferences. He said Arizona had the easiest route to the FF (perhaps they do), but only because "they only face one Power 5 team total on the way" - no further analysis needed.

ETAe

time to write up Dan and tell him that his opinion is weak and amateur because he's not a high-major talent like Bilas or Vitale.

ZagMan in Philly
03-17-2017, 06:41 AM
i can't wait for this match up Landale vs Markkanen

bartruff1
03-17-2017, 06:58 AM
If only sports betting was legal in WA.

I don't do it, but can't you bet over the internet at any number of sites....???

Goshzagit
03-17-2017, 07:02 AM
i can't wait for this match up Landale vs Markkanen

Problem is, they won't be matched-up…and therein lies the problem.

Arizona has 7', 260 lb Ristic starting at Center -- and will be tasked to guard Landale and vice versa.

So…whom guards Markkanen?

mgadfly
03-17-2017, 07:19 AM
Problem is, they won't be matched-up…and therein lies the problem.

Arizona has 7', 260 lb Ristic starting at Center -- and will be tasked to guard Landale and vice versa.

So…whom guards Markkanen?

I think Landale guards Ristic and Pineau guards Markkanen. They double when/if Markkanen gets deep post position. And hopefully Fitzner gets a few more minutes. His efficiency statistics and per minute stats are off the charts, he just doesn't get as many opportunities as the other two big guys.

hooter73
03-17-2017, 07:25 AM
SMC is not bad, but they are out matched against Arizona. The only way they win is if Az beats themselves... which they have done a few times this year. If it was easy to do in Washington, I'd put a hundred on SMC just for funnsies

mgadfly
03-17-2017, 07:27 AM
Ken Pom has SMC by 2.

DixieZag
03-17-2017, 07:32 AM
Ken Pom has SMC by 2.

?

Ken Pom losing some altitude on that one.

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-17-2017, 07:34 AM
?

Ken Pom losing some altitude on that one.

Everyone knows Kenpom is only accurate when it shows how awesome the zags are.

irishzag_09
03-17-2017, 07:37 AM
Problem is, they won't be matched-up…and therein lies the problem.

Arizona has 7', 260 lb Ristic starting at Center -- and will be tasked to guard Landale and vice versa.

So…whom guards Markkanen?

Logical answer is a combo of #22 Dane Pineau, senior - 6'9" 225 lbs (vs VCU - 25 mins and 7 pts) and #21 Evan Fitzner Fitzner, soph - 6'10" 230lbs (vs VCU - 13 mins, 1-2 from field...which was a 3 ptr)...I honestly believe these guys can get in Lauri Markkanen's head just like our bigs did. North Dakota with guys at 6'4" - 6'6" were playing well above their size last night and boxed him and Ristic out multiple times for the board when they got a defensive stop.

x-factor = The Tasmanian Devil = #00 Tanner Krebs, Freshman - vs VCU = played only 19 mins, scored 12 points, went 6-6 from the free throw line...meaning he was in attack mode and got to the rim vs VCU...if Saint Mary's get's that kind of efficiency out of this kid for 19 mins, vs. 7pts on 25 minutes with Pineau, and 3 pts on 13 mins with Fitzner, put Krebs on Markkanen. Honestly, I think he can hold his own and it would free up Landale and Pineau on weak side rebounds. And keep them out of foul trouble.

I truly believe that St. Mary's will win this ball game or take them to the wire...and to think, if Saint Mary's accomplishes this, it will be SMC that will of started the narrative, "Look how good Gonzaga is to have beaten that team THREE times" and even a better headline "Top Two in WCC are LEGIT...not just GU".

My final thoughts are anyone in SLC wearing Zags gear or any gear not saying U of A, should and will likely get behind the Gaels for this game. Should make the Viv feel like McKeon Pavilion on steriods!!!

Goshzagit
03-17-2017, 07:52 AM
I think Landale guards Ristic and Pineau guards Markkanen. They double when/if Markkanen gets deep post position. And hopefully Fitzner gets a few more minutes. His efficiency statistics and per minute stats are off the charts, he just doesn't get as many opportunities as the other two big guys.

Fitzner should play more every game.

His defense is suspect but maybe ur best mis match weapon on offense...

A version of Kyle Wiltjer

Virginia Zags Fan
03-17-2017, 07:57 AM
Arizona is really good. However, SMC is good, too. If SMC brings their A game, I think they have a shot. And that's why it's called March Madness.

I will be there rooting for our WCC compadres.

webspinnre
03-17-2017, 07:58 AM
?

Ken Pom losing some altitude on that one.

KenPom is straight numbers, and SMC is very efficient.

MickMick
03-17-2017, 08:03 AM
Remove Rahon and SMC is the weakest I can recall at the guard position.

Against VCU, Bennett plays Rahon with four fouls and thirteen minutes to go. That about sums up what kind of depth they have at the guard position.

Rahon and Naar will be burn't out with lead feet before long.

gozagswoohoo
03-17-2017, 08:06 AM
I truly believe that St. Mary's will win this ball game or take them to the wire...and to think, if Saint Mary's accomplishes this, it will be SMC that will of started the narrative, "Look how good Gonzaga is to have beaten that team THREE times" and even a better headline "Top Two in WCC are LEGIT...not just GU".



Am I the only one that sees it just the opposite? LOL. I see the narrative being that Gonzaga would finally (possibly) have made their first ever FF, all because they got lucky and had Arizona knocked off FOR them, and had an easy road against a chump WCC team that they'd already beaten 3 times.

bartruff1
03-17-2017, 08:23 AM
Am I the only one that sees it just the opposite? LOL. I see the narrative being that Gonzaga would finally (possibly) have made their first ever FF, all because they got lucky and had Arizona knocked off FOR them, and had an easy road against a chump WCC team that they'd already beaten 3 times.

I am with you....can't imagine a better scenario .... The Gaels are my second favorite team so I will be rooting for them but full disclosure is that I think Arizona will win easy ...the Gaels put on a clinic in the first half yesterday, but Calvin had to pull it out..

Who knows how good they are ??? They haven't played anyone worth a damn but Gonzaga and got it handed to them 3 times..

My bracket is still good .....and I trust my monkey with his darts more than kenpom...

former1dog
03-17-2017, 08:28 AM
I know Dan Dakich will.... he said SMC is the "most overrated team in the history of College Basketball".

What a tool that guy is. I didn't like him when he first started his "analyst" job and its been going downhill ever since. Lappas is also like nails on a chalk board.

former1dog
03-17-2017, 08:29 AM
i can't wait for this match up Landale vs Markkanen

Don't think that is a good match up for Landale, but we're going to find out tomorrow aren't we.

TexasZagFan
03-17-2017, 08:31 AM
Remove Rahon and SMC is the weakest I can recall at the guard position.

Against VCU, Bennett plays Rahon with four fouls and thirteen minutes to go. That about sums up what kind of depth they have at the guard position.

Rahon and Naar will be burn't out with lead feet before long.

They didn't burn out against VCU. Sure, they had several minutes where they made mistakes, but they did enough to win.

BayAreaZagFan
03-17-2017, 08:36 AM
Am I the only one that sees it just the opposite? LOL. I see the narrative being that Gonzaga would finally (possibly) have made their first ever FF, all because they got lucky and had Arizona knocked off FOR them, and had an easy road against a chump WCC team that they'd already beaten 3 times.

I'd love it if St. Mary's did us the ultimate favor and knocked Arizona out of the tournament, but you know if it comes down to the Zags vs. St Mary's, all the talking heads will take St Mary's telling us how hard it is to beat a team four times in one season.

Zags11
03-17-2017, 08:48 AM
I don't do it, but can't you bet over the internet at any number of sites....???

Yes lol

sittingon50
03-17-2017, 08:51 AM
Everyone knows Kenpom is only accurate when it shows how awesome the zags are.

:roll:

seacatfan
03-17-2017, 08:54 AM
i can't wait for this match up Landale vs Markkanen

Well, they won't be matched up with each other. Ristic is Arizona's center and I think Bennett is smart enough to not have Landale trying to chase Markannen around.

seacatfan
03-17-2017, 08:58 AM
Casey Jacobson was informed and complimentary talking about St. Mary's last night in the Pac 12 Network studios. So not every talking head is completely overlooking them.

Zagceo
03-17-2017, 09:00 AM
Casey Jacobson was informed and complimentary talking about St. Mary's last night in the Pac 12 Network studios. So not every talking head is completely overlooking them.

please help me understand how cats gave up 86 to Bison?

seacatfan
03-17-2017, 09:04 AM
please help me understand how cats gave up 86 to Bison?

Well, they were playing the Fighting Hawks not the Bison, and they gave up 82. But the answer obviously is they played poorly on the defensive end. UA scored at will in the paint and had a double digit lead most of the game, but they were not locked in and focused on D. Coach Miller could not have been pleased w/ the effort.

Zagceo
03-17-2017, 09:13 AM
Well, they were playing the Fighting Hawks not the Bison, and they gave up 82. But the answer obviously is they played poorly on the defensive end. UA scored at will in the paint and had a double digit lead most of the game, but they were not locked in and focused on D. Coach Miller could not have been pleased w/ the effort.

ohhhh the Fighting Hawks .....that explains it.

didn't watch the game and really should know the teams playing from ND.....my birth state. -D

Goshzagit
03-17-2017, 11:33 AM
Well, they were playing the Fighting Hawks not the Bison, and they gave up 82. But the answer obviously is they played poorly on the defensive end. UA scored at will in the paint and had a double digit lead most of the game, but they were not locked in and focused on D. Coach Miller could not have been pleased w/ the effort.

Lets be honest, it wasnt the Bison or the Fighting Hawks...rather the "Sioux" who Zona gave up 80+ pts too. ND players, coaches, & fans all refer to themselves as that....

Arizona can be a good defensive team, but the Pac 12 played much like the NBA this season...not much defense played by any team.

Although, a few SPECTACULAR offensive teams.

UCLA one of the better offensive teams i've seen this decade. Their defense is nearly non existent. They try hard and have great size/length, but like BYU, lost much of the time.

That said, I believe Arizona wins the entire Tourney this year. Just our same luck.

Every team Gonzaga has lost to since 2008 either goes to Final 4 or wins it all (save Davidson & BYU Elite 8).

Zagceo
03-17-2017, 11:38 AM
Lets be honest, it wasnt the Bison or the Fighting Hawks...rather the "Sioux" who Zona gave up 80+ pts too. ND players, coaches, & fans all refer to themselves as that....
Arizona can be a good defensive team, but the Pac 12 played much like the NBA this season...not much defense played by any team.

Although, a few SPECTACULAR offensive teams.

UCLA one of the better offensive teams i've seen this decade. Their defense is nearly non existent. They try hard and have great size/length, but like BYU, lost much of the time.

That said, I believe Arizona wins the entire Tourney this year. Just our same luck.

Every team Gonzaga has lost to since 2008 either goes to Final 4 or wins it all (save Davidson & BYU Elite 8).

I do remember that.....and it was "Fighting Sioux" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_Fighting_Hawks) to be exact.

seacatfan
03-17-2017, 11:39 AM
Man, PC run amok. Florida St. is still the Seminoles and the name is embraced by the Seminole tribe.

webspinnre
03-17-2017, 11:49 AM
I was listening on the radio last night, and it was cool to have Dickau doing color.

Chicken Ball
03-17-2017, 12:05 PM
All I'm saying is, if you swap "Gaels" for "Zags" there are an awful lot of GUBoards posters that are sounding like power conference Zags-doubters circa 1999-2001, right before they beat your team.

Still, for all that, the game has to be played. Either team could win. Maybe by a lot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

maynard g krebs
03-17-2017, 12:13 PM
Everyone knows Kenpom is only accurate when it shows how awesome the zags are.

Ding ding ding. Chicken dinner for you.

maynard g krebs
03-17-2017, 12:18 PM
What a tool that guy is. I didn't like him when he first started his "analyst" job and its been going downhill ever since. Lappas is also like nails on a chalk board.

Where Dan Dakich is concerned, I always remember that you can't spell analyst without anal.

avid-zag-fan
03-17-2017, 12:20 PM
vegas odds are fixed by equal betting for and against the spread. Most average fans will be giving the points and taking Arizona. that leaves the professional gamblers taking the points and betting on SMC. Professional gamblers don't stay professional gamblers long if they aren't quite good at their jobs. I'm pulling for SMC

maynard g krebs
03-17-2017, 12:21 PM
Maaarkanen is basically a 7' perimeter player. You can guard him with a smaller guy. Oregon did it with Dillon Brooks quite a bit.

maynard g krebs
03-17-2017, 12:22 PM
vegas odds are fixed by equal betting for and against the spread. Most average fans will be giving the points and taking Arizona. that leaves the professional gamblers taking the points and betting on SMC. Professional gamblers don't stay professional gamblers long if they aren't quite good at their jobs. I'm pulling for SMC

Boom.

seacatfan
03-17-2017, 12:22 PM
Maaarkanen is basically a 7' perimeter player. You can guard him with a smaller guy. Oregon did it with Dillon Brooks quite a bit.

If SMC did that, who is Pineau or Fitzner guarding?

DixieZag
03-17-2017, 12:33 PM
I'm pulling hard for SMC. But, they didn't get within single digits of us this year, what makes a person think that Arizona will have any less trouble?

I don't gamble, but put $100 for me down on AZ

maynard g krebs
03-17-2017, 01:34 PM
If SMC did that, who is Pineau or Fitzner guarding?

I was just saying it's been done; agree I'd have Landale on Ristic/ Comanche and Pineau/Fitzner on Maarkanen. But SMC doesn't play Landale and Pineau together all that much, or at least that's my impression. May have to do it more v Az.

Goshzagit
03-17-2017, 01:41 PM
Maaarkanen is basically a 7' perimeter player. You can guard him with a smaller guy. Oregon did it with Dillon Brooks quite a bit.

I will say Jordan Mathews took some turns on him...and denied him the ball pretty darn well

NotoriousZ
03-17-2017, 01:47 PM
This is a head-scratcher for me. Are you people sure about that spread? Arizona seems to be on another level now--they are peaking at the perfect time and they're much, much better than when we played them. No knock on SMC but if my money was on the line this would be an easy call.

maynard g krebs
03-17-2017, 01:49 PM
I'm pulling hard for SMC. But, they didn't get within single digits of us this year, what makes a person think that Arizona will have any less trouble?

I don't gamble, but put $100 for me down on AZ

Arizona 69 Santa Clara 61
Arizona 64 Grand Canyon 54

Is Az better now. Sure. But I'd suggest that SMC is equally better than the above opponents.

DixieZag
03-17-2017, 01:51 PM
Arizona 69 Santa Clara 61
Arizona 64 Grand Canyon 54

Is Az better now. Sure. But I'd suggest that SMC is equally better than the above opponents.

We'll see.

Yes, they are better now. They took care of both Oregon and UCLA and it wasn't real close.

I'd love to be wrong, hope SMC wins.

gu03alum
03-17-2017, 01:54 PM
We'll see.

Yes, they are better now. They took care of both Oregon and UCLA and it wasn't real close.

I'd love to be wrong, hope SMC wins.

The Oregon game was a 3 point win. How is that not real close? Oregon was missing one of it's best player and Arizona barely won.

seacatfan
03-17-2017, 02:06 PM
You can cherry pick any team in the country and find some scores that aren't flattering. Oregon wasn't good early in the season. St. Mary's had some close scores against middle or bottom of the WCC teams all during the season. Oregon barely beat Cal in the Pac 12 Tourney and Cal was missing one of it's best players. I could do this all day. What does any of it prove?

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-17-2017, 02:11 PM
You can cherry pick any team in the country and find some scores that aren't flattering. Oregon wasn't good early in the season. St. Mary's had some close scores against middle or bottom of the WCC teams all during the season. Oregon barely beat Cal in the Pac 12 Tourney and Cal was missing one of it's best players. I could do this all day. What does any of it prove?

That this will likely be a closer game than a bunch of people are thinking it will be.

team6
03-17-2017, 02:14 PM
You can cherry pick any team in the country and find some scores that aren't flattering. Oregon wasn't good early in the season. St. Mary's had some close scores against middle or bottom of the WCC teams all during the season. Oregon barely beat Cal in the Pac 12 Tourney and Cal was missing one of it's best players. I could do this all day. What does any of it prove?

St. Mary's actually blew out the WCC almost as bad as Gonzaga did.

seacatfan
03-17-2017, 02:22 PM
SMC:

12/29 @ LMU 72-60
12/31 USD 72-60
1/7 @ USF 63-52
1/19 Pacific 62-50
1/28 @ SCU 72-59
2/2 @ Pacific 74-70
2/9 UP 51-41

That's quite a few not blow out wins against not very good teams. See what I did there?

avid-zag-fan
03-17-2017, 02:22 PM
I just checked vegas odds. Arizona opened a 2 1/2 favorite it's now 4 1/2 or 5 now. over and under is 132 to 133. http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

gonzagafan62
03-17-2017, 02:30 PM
Arizona is certainly better but so are ZAGS and SMC. Love how people don't think we can get better just Arizona can

Zigzag92
03-17-2017, 08:57 PM
Arizona is gonna run St Marys out of the gym

maynard g krebs
03-17-2017, 10:08 PM
You can cherry pick any team in the country and find some scores that aren't flattering. Oregon wasn't good early in the season. St. Mary's had some close scores against middle or bottom of the WCC teams all during the season. Oregon barely beat Cal in the Pac 12 Tourney and Cal was missing one of it's best players. I could do this all day. What does any of it prove?

I was responding to a suggestion that SMC was going to get blown out and couldn't hang w/ Az. I pointed out the fact that Az doesn't blow everybody out, and that there were examples that suggest that a close game is possible, perhaps likely. As I've said before, I'll be surprised if SMC can pull off the upset, but a bit more surprised if they get blown out. I'm guessing most likely scenario is something like 75-69 Arizona, though of course I'm pulling hard for the underdog.

GeorgiaZagFan
03-17-2017, 10:54 PM
...now I don't want this to turn into a racist issue, just curious. Does anyone know the last time a team with an all white starting lineup won the NCAA tournament?

Zagger
03-18-2017, 01:05 AM
...now I don't want this to turn into a racist issue, just curious. Does anyone know the last time a team with an all white starting lineup won the NCAA tournament?

Who's counting? Klan Pom?

bartruff1
03-18-2017, 05:43 AM
Odds now are Zona by 5.....does KenPom call this game ? If so what does he predict ?

MJ777
03-18-2017, 05:52 AM
...now I don't want this to turn into a racist issue, just curious. Does anyone know the last time a team with an all white starting lineup won the NCAA tournament?

Probably in the early to mid 60s. I doubt it will ever happen again though BYU will keep trying to win a championship.

DixieZag
03-18-2017, 06:15 AM
...now I don't want this to turn into a racist issue, just curious. Does anyone know the last time a team with an all white starting lineup won the NCAA tournament?

I don't believe you meant it as a racist question at all, just the unusual nature.

I tried to research it because I was curious. The closest that I could find was the Wisconsin Badger team of 2014 which started one black player. I think beyond that, one has to go back to rancid racist Adolph Rupp getting beat by Texas Western, and deservedly so, since he sneered at his team about not losing to a "bunch of coons." That would be 65-66. Rupp didn't bring on a black player until 1969.

I appreciate that one has to figure in the environment at the time, but it's got to be awkward to play in Rupp Arena, not b/c he didn't have black players, no southern state college did back then, but more b/c of the documented things he said.

As an aside, the coach to truly integrate an elite southern basketball team where he fought for everyone to be equal in where they eat/stay was Dean Smith. Amazing man.

bartruff1
03-18-2017, 06:17 AM
Odds now are Zona by 5.....does KenPom call this game ? If so what does he predict ?

To answer my own question, thanks to a Cad post...he has the same spread as Vegas....about Arizona by 5

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-18-2017, 06:18 AM
Odds now are Zona by 5.....does KenPom call this game ? If so what does he predict ?

Projected score on a neutra court is 64-62 for Saint Mary's

DixieZag
03-18-2017, 06:20 AM
Projected score on a neutra court is 64-62 for Saint Mary's

Amazing. Seems divorced from reality.

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-18-2017, 06:20 AM
To answer my own question, thanks to a Cad post...he has the same spread as Vegas....about Arizona by 5

https://gamepredict.us/kenpom

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-18-2017, 06:21 AM
Amazing. Seems divorced from reality.

Why? That's what the stats say. No personal bias goes into the projection.

Just like the stats saying Gonzaga has the best chance at winning the tournament


It doesn't mean that's what will happen.. but the model gives that score.

Smart money would play Saint Mary's +5

bartruff1
03-18-2017, 06:22 AM
Projected score on a neutra court is 64-62 for Saint Mary's

I must have not understood Cad's post...thanks...so he is different than Vegas who has Zona by 5....

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-18-2017, 06:24 AM
I must have not understood Cad's post...thanks...so he is different than Vegas who has Zona by 5....

Remember Vegas isn't trying to get the score right... they are trying to set the score so that the betting is spilt as closely as possible to 50/50 to both sides. That's why the line started a lot lower.. tons of people putting money on the Cats... again something that should give a person concern.

zagsfanforlife
03-18-2017, 06:26 AM
To answer my own question, thanks to a Cad post...he has the same spread as Vegas....about Arizona by 5

Hey Bart-- just seeing this now. KenPom actually has Saint Marys winning by one.. 64-63.

This is interesting to me because Vegas odds are usually right in line with KenPom. Vegas did open up as -2.5 for AZ, so not a ton of variation, but still further apart then the two typically are.

zagsfanforlife
03-18-2017, 06:29 AM
Hey Bart-- just seeing this now. KenPom actually has Saint Marys winning by one.. 64-63.

This is interesting to me because Vegas odds are usually right in line with KenPom. Vegas did open up as -2.5 for AZ, so not a ton of variation, but still further apart then the two typically are.

As kong mentioned though.. Vegas creates spreads to get action.

Kong suggests money on SMC.. at +5 its tempting, but I had to have "my friend" load up on AZ at -3 when there was the chance.

With that said, GO GAELS.

DixieZag
03-18-2017, 06:35 AM
As kong mentioned though.. Vegas creates spreads to get action.

Kong suggests money on SMC.. at +5 its tempting, but I had to have "my friend" load up on AZ at -3 when there was the chance.

With that said, GO GAELS.

Question; Is it to get action, or is it to ensure that all action they get is close to 50-50 so they're guaranteed 10% $?

I had read the latter b/c the only way the house louses is to set the line off so much that the "take" from the losers, and the 10%, doesn't cover the pay-outs to the winners.

But, I don't follow closely, so tough for me to tell.

bartruff1
03-18-2017, 06:37 AM
Well I am going to bet the farm on Arizona...if I lose, can I move into your basement Dixie ???

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-18-2017, 06:41 AM
Question; Is it to get action, or is it to ensure that all action they get is close to 50-50 so they're guaranteed 10% $?

I had read the latter b/c the only way the house louses is to set the line off so much that the "take" from the losers, and the 10%, doesn't cover the pay-outs to the winners.

But, I don't follow closely, so tough for me to tell.

Both... they try to anticipate what the public will do in general and move the line to try and keep both sides equally weighted, moving that line stimulates action at the same time.

Professional gamblers will have programs which keep track of line moves on a variety of sites and will wait until the odds are most favourable to them. They can also use it to see where the"smart money" in being bet.