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Birddog
03-14-2017, 07:03 AM
I stumbled onto this article and read quickly but many points the author makes stand out to me as incorrect or misleading. Who is this guy and what is this paper?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/14/gonzaga-basketball-march-madness-spokane-last-hope


In 2004, Spokane taxpayers were happy to help pour $25m into the McCarthey Athletic Center, which seats 6,000 screaming fans. But the new arena hasn’t had significant effect on the town’s struggling economy as a whole

TheGonzagaFactor
03-14-2017, 07:08 AM
I didn't make it very far. It didn't really pull me in.

BayAreaZagFan
03-14-2017, 07:18 AM
The writer sounds like some sort of elitist-wannabe, doom-and-gloom moron. Is the article supposed to be clickbait? Looking for a new angle? It doesn't sound like the Spokane that I'm familiar with.

GoZag
03-14-2017, 07:24 AM
What a negative guy. Anyone that thinks that any college basketball team can dramatically increase the economy is crazy. I did not know that Spokane is as bad off as this guy states.

I stumbled onto this article and read quickly but many points the author makes stand out to me as incorrect or misleading. Who is this guy and what is this paper?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/14/gonzaga-basketball-march-madness-spokane-last-hope

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 07:32 AM
The writer sounds like some sort of elitist-wannabe, doom-and-gloom moron. Is the article supposed to be clickbait? Looking for a new angle? It doesn't sound like the Spokane that I'm familiar with.

It's harder to write an article about a city you've never visited from thousands of miles away. It's about 300 miles from London to Paris, or about less than half the distance we drove to see the Zags in Nashville.

A bit O/T, but European perceptions of the US as dangerous haven't changed much over the past 40 years. A former student of mine is studying at the University of Nottingham. We compared notes over the holidays, while she was on break. She laughed as she recounted how her peers were asking about life in Texas, such as "have you ever been shot at?", "did you ride a horse to school?", stuff like that.

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 07:33 AM
What a negative guy. Anyone that thinks that any college basketball team can dramatically increase the economy is crazy. I did not know that Spokane is as bad off as this guy states.

No doubt about it, Spokane's become a hell hole since I graduated over 40 years ago. :lmao:

rennis
03-14-2017, 07:38 AM
Poor writing, bad facts, total lack of knowledge. Where he was trying to go with the piece could have had legs but it was executed very poorly. Surprised the Guardian would publish it. Sorta. Sports isn't really their thing

Birddog
03-14-2017, 07:40 AM
Here he is, looks a little like a smirking "Goth".
https://delistraty.com/about/

rennis
03-14-2017, 07:51 AM
Here he is
https://delistraty.com/about/

Cody needs to get out of his own head a little before he writes anything else about Spokane or sports. And perhaps read some things authored by people with a slightly better world view, and a better handle on good writing. Perhaps he could start with some Timothy Egan.

willandi
03-14-2017, 07:53 AM
It's harder to write an article about a city you've never visited from thousands of miles away. It's about 300 miles from London to Paris, or about less than half the distance we drove to see the Zags in Nashville.

A bit O/T, but European perceptions of the US as dangerous haven't changed much over the past 40 years. A former student of mine is studying at the University of Nottingham. We compared notes over the holidays, while she was on break. She laughed as she recounted how her peers were asking about life in Texas, such as "have you ever been shot at?", "did you ride a horse to school?", stuff like that.

Well...have you? Did you?

Enquiring minds want to know!

krozman
03-14-2017, 07:59 AM
If he were truly looking for an innovative take based on actual experience the article should have focused on the transformation of the university post 1998 instead of over generalizing the city itself. The article is just terrible.

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 08:01 AM
Well...have you? Did you?

Enquiring minds want to know!

No, and no...happy? lol

My German neighbors pleaded with me to vote for Carter in '80, they were convinced that Reagan was going to start WWIII. For about two months leading up to the election, I was engaged in conversation at the neighborhood gasthaus, 2-3 times a week. It was a lot of fun.

It would have been a completely different story 36 years later. I would have sat at an empty table and replied, "no hablo."

willandi
03-14-2017, 08:06 AM
Well...have you? Did you?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Mine is yes and no (not to school), but lots of riding, both western and english saddle.

Shot at, but not in the military. As a 16 yr old, some a-hole wanting to get our attention so he could bum a smoke. Shot into the brush we were hunkered down in. Missed by a couple of feet, going between us. Since we were not visible to him, an amazing shot.

He sure jumped a few minutes later when the .410 went off behind him! But not aimed anywhere near him.

FuManShoes
03-14-2017, 08:11 AM
Where's the rusty ferris wheel?

webspinnre
03-14-2017, 08:12 AM
Boy, it makes it sound like Spokane is just absolutely terrible. If I had the right situation as far as job and school for sons, I'd be delighted to move back to Spokane from Napa.

TheZagPhish
03-14-2017, 08:20 AM
Someone should alert the Spokane Journal of Business as to the actual state of things. They keep publishing story after story about how quickly the town is growing and improving.

SunDevilGolfZag
03-14-2017, 08:32 AM
I guess mentioning other sports/community successes such as Bloomsday and Hoopfest would have ruined his "theme" about Spokane. Bizarre article.

GoZags
03-14-2017, 08:35 AM
I guess mentioning other sports/community successes such as Bloomsday and Hoopfest would have ruined his "theme" about Spokane. Bizarre article.

And here I thought that mentioning the taxpayer funded Spokane Arena and it's positive contributions to the economy would have been appropriate.

willandi
03-14-2017, 08:39 AM
I guess mentioning other sports/community successes such as Bloomsday and Hoopfest would have ruined his "theme" about Spokane. Bizarre article.

Economy? We don't need no stinkin' economy! All those events do is tie up traffic!

Bogozags
03-14-2017, 08:40 AM
Two things...

1) Isn't GU a private Catholic Institution of higher learning, then how did the school get public funds to build their 6K seat arena? I find this statement hard to swallow...can it be true? I know that in Louisiana, specifically New Orleans that public school buses are used to transport students to and from Catholic Schools...no separation between church and state :confused:

2) I had no idea that Spokane is such a violent city and since I hate violence, Spokane will now be taken off of my "Bucket List!" Oh, I have given additional thought to my BUCKET LIST and ALL that violence be dammed, I'm putting Spokane BACK on the list!

Bing
03-14-2017, 08:42 AM
Two things...

1) Isn't GU a private Catholic Institution of higher learning, then how did the school get public funds to build their 6K seat arena? I find this statement hard to swallow...can it be true? I know that in Louisiana, specifically New Orleans that public school buses are used to transport students to and from Catholic Schools...no separation between church and state :confused:

2) I had no idea that Spokane is such a violent city and since I hate violence, Spokane will now be taken off of my "Bucket List!" Oh, I have given additional thought to my BUCKET LIST and ALL that violence be dammed, I'm putting Spokane BACK on the list!

I registered with the Guardian and corrected the misinformation re: taxpayer funding in the comments ....

Zagceo
03-14-2017, 08:45 AM
all those medical facilities must have the lowest paid doctors in the country

Birddog
03-14-2017, 08:53 AM
I registered with the Guardian and corrected the misinformation re: taxpayer funding in the comments ....

It wasn't totally untrue, just misleading. Some Spokane taxpayers likely helped fund the MAC, they just didn't use taxpayer dollars, although IIRC, there was a plan floated to do just that. Fortunately, it was shot down by both sides, again IIRC. And yeah, where the hell is the Ferris Wheel?

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 09:14 AM
I registered with the Guardian and corrected the misinformation re: taxpayer funding in the comments ....

For the record, I'm not "BigTex", a poster in the comments section.

Birddog
03-14-2017, 09:24 AM
I registered with the Guardian and corrected the misinformation re: taxpayer funding in the comments ....


This article was updated on 14 March 2017. The original version incorrectly stated that Spokane taxpayers helped fund the $25m cost for the McCarthey Athletic Center.
Thanks Bing, still the article is full of characterization , innuendo, and gloom.

PeninsulaDog
03-14-2017, 09:29 AM
Let's face it, munching a double whammy at Dick's can't compare to eating bouillabaisse and smoking Gauloises in the tony salons of Paris. If only I could be so urbane . . .

Next time Few sees him approaching in a parking lot, I hope he gives him the straight-arm.

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 09:41 AM
Let's face it, munching a double whammy at Dick's can't compare to eating bouillabaisse and smoking Gauloises in the tony salons of Paris. If only I could be so urbane . . .

Next time Few sees him approaching in a parking lot, I hope he gives him the straight-arm.

I've been to Paris. The view from the Eiffel Tower is just like the pictures. I'd rather be sipping an Auslese at an open air café near the Porta Nigra (we all have our favorite places, this is just one of mine).

Markburn1
03-14-2017, 09:56 AM
Reads like a spoiled little brat that grew up in Spokane and couldn't wait to get away. Note he has to establish his intellectual bona fides by revealing he didn't have time for the Zags because his nose was buried in a book. Then he let's us know he is a cosmopolitan man of the world that visits Paris and meets famous (Who the hell is that) people nobody has ever heard of. His dad probably doesn't want him anywhere near him when the game is on.

basketballzag
03-14-2017, 09:58 AM
Last year, Spokane ranked as the 22nd most dangerous city in the United States, up from 26th the year before. Last year alone there were 10 murders, 1,100 violent crimes, and 12,000 property crimes.

This journalist doesn't know what the hell he is talking about and this statistic is taken so far out of context its crazy. Spokane is a very safe city and what Gonzaga has contributed to the economy since I graduated is simply insane. It is a thriving city and those crime statistics are fantastic--I would literally kill if New Orleans had those same statistics where we have had 43 murders since the beginning of the year.

Markburn1
03-14-2017, 10:06 AM
"I would literally kill..."

Wouldn't that skew the numbers?

basketballzag
03-14-2017, 10:12 AM
"I would literally kill..."

Wouldn't that skew the numbers?

Not in New Orleans it would be classified by the police department as "unknown or suicide". LOL

PeninsulaDog
03-14-2017, 11:30 AM
Article has just been edited to correct the reference to public funding. That's great, but without the erroneously referenced connection to public funding of K2, the story really falls apart: The quote from the economist about sports teams' impacts on cities' fiscal outlooks is rendered completely irrelevant. What's left is conjectural macropseudopsychoanalysis (just made that up) of an entire city's population. The article seems to violate a writing tenet that authors should "write what they know". Or at least familiarize themselves with some basic facts.

Hoopaholic
03-14-2017, 11:33 AM
Article has just been edited to correct the reference to public funding. That's great, but without the erroneously referenced connection to public funding of K2, the story really falls apart: The quote from the economist about sports teams' impacts on cities' fiscal outlooks is rendered completely irrelevant. What's left is conjectural macropseudopsychoanalysis (just made that up) of an entire city's population. The article seems to violate a writing tenet that authors should "write what they know". Or at least familiarize themselves with some basic facts.

his entire story is built on false statements.....100 degree weather in may to no other sports in spokane (Spokane Chiefs have won the WHL and memorial cup twice since 1990 and played in it two other times....oh that is 4 more times that Seattle Thunderbird....the areana cup team were league champs, conference champs, division champs and two time Arena Cup challenge winners.....could go on and on)

amazing that someone could write such a blatantly laced article full of false facts

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 11:36 AM
Article has just been edited to correct the reference to public funding. That's great, but without the erroneously referenced connection to public funding of K2, the story really falls apart: The quote from the economist about sports teams' impacts on cities' fiscal outlooks is rendered completely irrelevant. What's left is conjectural macropseudopsychoanalysis (just made that up) of an entire city's population. The article seems to violate a writing tenet that authors should "write what they know". Or at least familiarize themselves with some basic facts.

Down here in Texas, "macropseudopsychoanalysis" is known as:

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Jurassic_Park_Feces_5395.jpg

Furthermore, to think that a private university with a total student population of 7,000+/- would play a major economic role in a city of 210K, IMO simply strains credulity.

Chicken Ball
03-14-2017, 11:39 AM
For the record, I'm not "BigTex", a poster in the comments section.

Seems likely that, to a Londoner, any American who doesn't live in NYC, Hollywood, or San Francisco is automatically "Big Tex."

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 11:50 AM
Seems likely that, to a Londoner, any American who doesn't live in NYC, Hollywood, or San Francisco is automatically "Big Tex."

The real Big Tex:

http://bigtex.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/bigtexthanks-300x200.jpg

johno
03-14-2017, 12:05 PM
The comments to the article are just amazing! I was blown away by the level of skill exhibited by the many wonderful authors.

Mantua
03-14-2017, 12:13 PM
The Guardian is a British daily rag that specializes in publishing sensational gossipy articles.

roxdoc
03-14-2017, 12:30 PM
One of the most preposterous pieces about Spokane I have ever read. In the last 5-10 years Spokane has been on a roll which seems to be accelerating lately. Improvements downtown, bustling night life, the University district, new nursing, pharmacy and medical schools, major airlines adding routes (Texas Zag Fan starting in July there is a direct flight between DFW and Spokane), very low Apt occupancy rates downtown etc etc etc.

And this elitist idiot decides to tell the world about us with contorted facts to support his idea about sports impacts.

TexasZagFan
03-14-2017, 12:48 PM
One of the most preposterous pieces about Spokane I have ever read. In the last 5-10 years Spokane has been on a roll which seems to be accelerating lately. Improvements downtown, bustling night life, the University district, new nursing, pharmacy and medical schools, major airlines adding routes (Texas Zag Fan starting in July there is a direct flight between DFW and Spokane), very low Apt occupancy rates downtown etc etc etc.

And this elitist idiot decides to tell the world about us with contorted facts to support his idea about sports impacts.

Thanks for the info! My first thought was that it had something to do with the repeal of the Wright Amendment, which limited direct flights to several states. The article in the SR noted that American is flying to Spokane from DFW airport, not Love (one of the targets of Wright). The business must be there, or American wouldn't be doing it.

GrizZAG
03-14-2017, 12:56 PM
Probably shouldn't but will comment. I managed branches for a large company connected to anyone manufacturing just about anything. I had close connections with the business community in Spokane for many years. High tech to low tech. I also had opportunity to manage in Boise, Portland, Seattle and other regional areas. Long and short is Spokane is indeed a pretty stagnant economy.

The contrast in Boise is just startling really as it is vibrant, growth orientated and standard of living is very good there. Seattle and Portland are hard to compare to but they are simply amazing economies. Other than health care, service industry and the Air base there just isn't much in Spokane. The tertiary supporting careers for that size population are there and some are doing very well, but nope it is pretty slow.
New hotels, convention centers and so on are nice but relying on conventions and events is not what I am talking about. It has been that way pretty much for the last 40 years that I was involved.
Now that doesn't mean it is a bad place to live, or it is a crime mecca or any of the other dumb allegations of this author, it is a great place to live and one can make a fulfilling happy life there no doubt. The money is held by a core that has had that money for a long time in Spokane. They have blown chances to bring in some great businesses into town, but there are obstacles as those who have encountered them well know.

Gonzaga basketball has indeed made us all proud to say we are from Spokane, Washington. They are the rock stars of our city.

LongIslandZagFan
03-14-2017, 01:08 PM
He was so proud of his work that he had it on his twitter feed... he then removed it after being assailed by Zag fans pointing out the lies in his article.

gu03alum
03-14-2017, 01:09 PM
In spite of all of the crime I experienced in Spokane, I would move back in a heartbeat if I could find a decent job there.

Zagger
03-14-2017, 01:10 PM
Perplexing. I must be blind in one eye and can't see out the other. Who's arse did this guy pull his 'facts' from ....

maynard g krebs
03-14-2017, 01:17 PM
What's left is conjectural macropseudopsychoanalysis (just made that up) of an entire city's population. The article seems to violate a writing tenet that authors should "write what they know". Or at least familiarize themselves with some basic facts.

I like your style, Dude.

roxdoc
03-14-2017, 01:33 PM
Definitely not trying to pick a fight. Spokane has not been much of a manufacturing city, although has improved some in the last few years. So still maybe “sleepy” in that area. Strengths are medical, convention/tourism, services which are all growing nicely and giving the community a sense of optimism.


Boise: a state capital and long time headquarters for several Fortune 500 companies.
Seattle: Uber economy certainly. Congestion and v high living costs are driving some millenials east.
I imagine NY, Wash DC, LA, Houston are much more robust economically.

Perhaps I over react because of the occasional alum from 10 years ago saying isn't it wonderful that GU thrives in such a "backwater" place as Spokane. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Hoopaholic
03-14-2017, 01:55 PM
He was so proud of his work that he had it on his twitter feed... he then removed it after being assailed by Zag fans pointing out the lies in his article.

heee heeee

Angelo Roncalli
03-14-2017, 02:03 PM
Fact checked by a real journalist:

http://www.krem.com/news/local/spokane-county/verify-krem-reveals-lies-in-guardians-struggling-spokane-story/422511095

Birddog
03-14-2017, 02:33 PM
With just a cursory search, it appears Mr Delistraty is a prolific author of magazine and newspaper articles. One would hope that his other work is better researched and more factual.

Psychozag
03-14-2017, 03:19 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/mar/14/shawn-vestal-guardian-report-exposes-dreary-truth-/

Brilliant response to a really bad article. Another individual whose self-loathing shows through because they've come to realize that you can take the boy out of Spokane, but you can't take Spokane out of the boy. I love the Zags, but they are a hobby and a passion. Other things bring meaning to my life...things I have found right here in Spokane. I hope Cody can find his in Paris (or wherever) and that someday he can come to peace with Spokane.

GrizZAG
03-14-2017, 03:39 PM
Definitely not trying to pick a fight. Spokane has not been much of a manufacturing city, although has improved some in the last few years. So still maybe “sleepy” in that area. Strengths are medical, convention/tourism, services which are all growing nicely and giving the community a sense of optimism.


Boise: a state capital and long time headquarters for several Fortune 500 companies.
Seattle: Uber economy certainly. Congestion and v high living costs are driving some millenials east.
I imagine NY, Wash DC, LA, Houston are much more robust economically.

Perhaps I over react because of the occasional alum from 10 years ago saying isn't it wonderful that GU thrives in such a "backwater" place as Spokane. I'll get off my soapbox now.

You assessed it perfectly. No foul at all. I must admit trying to do business in Spokane was disheartening for me only because of lack of new opportunity, but the clients such as IEP, Ponderay NP, the tech companies and food guys were very rewarding. Columbia Paint was great before SW bought them out and closed mfg.here.
Many remain good friends to this day. That is one thing that is a strength of Spokane, people still care about relationships and are loyal as can be. It's not backwater by any means. Heck I grew up in Missoula. It has changed but is similar in some ways with tourism, the University and not much else going on there either. But a gem of a nice town.

DixieZag
03-14-2017, 04:03 PM
I was under the impression the author premised the article upon the gigantic "gift" that the Spokane taxpayers lavished upon the conniving Jesuits and have seen no return on their investment.

No one should read further. It's a 100% false premise by an embittered author and indifferent fact checkers.

Meanwhile, while Spokane is doing better, no one can say that it's invested in itself in the way Boise, Eugene, Bellevue have. We are (finally) renovating Riverfront park, but have to be the single biggest city in the country without a ring highway around it. We did it the Spokane way, 1/3 completed, sitting out there uselessly.
.
To be fair, some of the lack of construction on that highway reflects where the political power lays in this state

TheZagPhish
03-14-2017, 04:59 PM
I love Spokane and hope that this article convinces a few yahoos to simply steer clear.

GYPOZAG
03-14-2017, 06:16 PM
Kxly tv at 6:30 this evening will discuss this story!

U Zig, I Zag
03-14-2017, 06:27 PM
I love Spokane and hope that this article convinces a few yahoos to simply steer clear.

Me too.

Listen, (and no offense to the folks in these places) but Spokane is not some dying former coal town or one of the Deep South towns struggling with commerce, drug and identity issues. Quite the opposite, from what I see and know.

U Zig, I Zag
03-14-2017, 06:34 PM
I was under the impression the author premised the article upon the gigantic "gift" that the Spokane taxpayers lavished upon the conniving Jesuits and have seen no return on their investment.

No one should read further. It's a 100% false premise by an embittered author and indifferent fact checkers.

Meanwhile, while Spokane is doing better, no one can say that it's invested in itself in the way Boise, Eugene, Bellevue have. We are (finally) renovating Riverfront park, but have to be the single biggest city in the country without a ring highway around it. We did it the Spokane way, 1/3 completed, sitting out there uselessly.
.
To be fair, some of the lack of construction on that highway reflects where the political power lays in this state

Lacking a clover system of on-ramps and off-ramps does not a city make.

The freeway deal going N/S is a longstanding issue with funding in place and a goal in sight (finally). GU, EWU, WSU, CCS are all part of larger U district project on that end of town that has had a ton of money dumped into it.

I was out last Oct on a nice night, east end of downtown and it was crazy. Just people everywhere. Every bar packed. Patios, etc. I assumed it was 'an event' and it was just a nice Friday night with people out exploring downtown. College kids. Middle agers, some seniors.

Don't 'know' Spokane from Facebook comments on local news outlet Facebook pages.

DirtyDredZag
03-14-2017, 07:16 PM
Fake news

DixieZag
03-14-2017, 07:38 PM
Lacking a clover system of on-ramps and off-ramps does not a city make.

The freeway deal going N/S is a longstanding issue with funding in place and a goal in sight (finally). GU, EWU, WSU, CCS are all part of larger U district project on that end of town that has had a ton of money dumped into it.

I was out last Oct on a nice night, east end of downtown and it was crazy. Just people everywhere. Every bar packed. Patios, etc. I assumed it was 'an event' and it was just a nice Friday night with people out exploring downtown. College kids. Middle agers, some seniors.

Don't 'know' Spokane from Facebook comments on local news outlet Facebook pages.

Evidently you didn't read the premise of the article:


In 2004, Spokane taxpayers were happy to help pour $25m into the McCarthey Athletic Center, which seats 6,000 screaming fans. But the new arena hasn’t had significant effect on the town’s struggling economy as a whole

That's what I addressed.

I live on the South Hill, I don't read Facebook comments. I also work closely with one of the city councilmembers.

When one can get to the airport from CDA much quicker than someone on the north side, it's not "making the city" but I think it matters. I believe the city has failed to reinvest in itself akin to similar sized cities in the west, and that's evidenced by a stagnant population growth. The best example of reinvesting in itself becoming a huge asset is the combined campuses. I'd prefer to see more of that. Compare the Boise valley.

I don't have the least bit of a problem with someone disagreeing, strongly. I just wonder why it was important to throw out the fact that my premise surely had to come from facebook comments and local tv comment sections.

ProVeeZag
03-14-2017, 10:47 PM
It's harder to write an article about a city you've never visited from thousands of miles away. It's about 300 miles from London to Paris, or about less than half the distance we drove to see the Zags in Nashville.

A bit O/T, but European perceptions of the US as dangerous haven't changed much over the past 40 years. A former student of mine is studying at the University of Nottingham. We compared notes over the holidays, while she was on break. She laughed as she recounted how her peers were asking about life in Texas, such as "have you ever been shot at?", "did you ride a horse to school?", stuff like that.

Nottingham, eh? Heard they have a no-nonsense sheriff there. Has elitist support, but the common folk wish he'd leave "people in the Hood" alone, instead of Robbin' them.

U Zig, I Zag
03-14-2017, 11:02 PM
Evidently you didn't read the premise of the article:



That's what I addressed.

I live on the South Hill, I don't read Facebook comments. I also work closely with one of the city councilmembers.

When one can get to the airport from CDA much quicker than someone on the north side, it's not "making the city" but I think it matters. I believe the city has failed to reinvest in itself akin to similar sized cities in the west, and that's evidenced by a stagnant population growth. The best example of reinvesting in itself becoming a huge asset is the combined campuses. I'd prefer to see more of that. Compare the Boise valley.

I don't have the least bit of a problem with someone disagreeing, strongly. I just wonder why it was important to throw out the fact that my premise surely had to come from facebook comments and local tv comment sections.


What? Perhaps you misunderstood.

My comment wasn't about your comments in particular, but rather about the greater longstanding issue of the north south freeway. Which, hopefully, is moving forward. I just like to point out other things are happening at the same time and the lack of the freeway doesn't mean some other things can't be happening.

On Facebook, in particular the posts by the folks that host this for us (SR Review) have lots of 'lively' discussion. In particular the bridge from the U-district to Sprague. We got potholes for sure - it was a bad winter - but people are obsessed with the fact that we have potholes AND they are building a bridge. Like those two things can't happen at the same time.

My larger comment about the Facebook and the article in the Guardian wasn't directed at you, but at some folks that might see that sort of thing and think that's all Spokane has to offer.

DixieZag
03-14-2017, 11:17 PM
What? Perhaps you misunderstood.

My comment wasn't about your comments in particular, but rather about the greater longstanding issue of the north south freeway. Which, hopefully, is moving forward. I just like to point out other things are happening at the same time and the lack of the freeway doesn't mean some other things can't be happening.

On Facebook, in particular the posts by the folks that host this for us (SR Review) have lots of 'lively' discussion. In particular the bridge from the U-district to Sprague. We got potholes for sure - it was a bad winter - but people are obsessed with the fact that we have potholes AND they are building a bridge. Like those two things can't happen at the same time.

My larger comment about the Facebook and the article in the Guardian wasn't directed at you, but at some folks that might see that sort of thing and think that's all Spokane has to offer.

I did misunderstand. My apologies.

jazzdelmar
03-15-2017, 04:55 AM
As a writer and as an utter stranger to the city -- I've been there once -- this writer has some major personal issues. Throws lots of opinionated dots out there and fails to connect any. Larger issue, does this reflect the accuracy of Guardian articles per se. Hope not, as I'm a subscriber.

titopoet
03-15-2017, 07:16 AM
The article in the guardian is by a very young and talented writer with Daddy issues who has yet to find his voice. It is clear he is from Spokane and in his formative years he fell in love with the expat writers who made their home in Paris after World War I. I imagine his shelf filled with Hemingway, Miller, Nin and Stein among others. These lost generation of artists and writers move to Paris looking for a way to understand the madness of the world they had witness. They also became a siren to generations of budding American writers who fell in love with their use of art as a balm and escape from the darkness of post war period. Reading his blog, you can see his romance with that era. His themes are their themes. Loneliness of writers, the power of language and many others. While clearly he is talented, none of his post offered any new insights. He few his journey from Spokane to Paris as an escape.

Now, he returns to Spokane and needs validation that he made the right choice to live his writer’s life in Paris for now he is not living his life but the life of the writers he admires. His father is the moving crowbar of the piece. His son can’t understand why his father is such big Zags fans. He uses the metaphor of his dad home alone listening to the Zags on the radio as a sense of lost living in Spokane and how he made the better choice in moving to Paris. Mark Few would also seem like a mystery to him. Coach Few could have left for different pastures but stays. So, he goes through his version of Spokane and makes it clear that his love of Art and Paris is so above such mundane as identifying with a sports team. I guess he has not looked into the face of his fellow Parians after the epic collapse of Paris Saint-Germain F.C. recently. They love art and they would not be like hick spokanites in staking their identity on sports.

But, like all young writer in search of a voice, he ignores that which doesn’t fit his narrative. Yes, mining and manufacturing have declined in Spokane, but it has become a regional center in healthcare. It has also attracted a growing population of transplants who are coming for the great outdoors and the slower pace of life. New homes are being built and new industries are popping up. It is also becoming a regional educational magnet, which again goes against his story, so it does not go in. Yes, Spokane is like any other place with its own sets of troubles, but it lacks the problems of Parisian slums and the growing racial tension with Paris. (As an American Expat writer living out his fantasies, he can conveniently ignore the real problems facing his adopted city.

He, in order to make good of the promise of his talent, will have to seriously examine his own relationship to the soil he sprung from, make peace with it. If not, he will end by recycling the insights of his heroes and offer nothing new to the world.

Birddog
03-15-2017, 07:55 AM
The article in the guardian is by a very young and talented writer with Daddy issues who has yet to find his voice. It is clear he is from Spokane and in his formative years he fell in love with the expat writers who made their home in Paris after World War I. I imagine his shelf filled with Hemingway, Miller, Nin and Stein among others. These lost generation of artists and writers move to Paris looking for a way to understand the madness of the world they had witness. They also became a siren to generations of budding American writers who fell in love with their use of art as a balm and escape from the darkness of post war period. Reading his blog, you can see his romance with that era. His themes are their themes. Loneliness of writers, the power of language and many others. While clearly he is talented, none of his post offered any new insights. He few his journey from Spokane to Paris as an escape.

Now, he returns to Spokane and needs validation that he made the right choice to live his writer’s life in Paris for now he is not living his life but the life of the writers he admires. His father is the moving crowbar of the piece. His son can’t understand why his father is such big Zags fans. He uses the metaphor of his dad home alone listening to the Zags on the radio as a sense of lost living in Spokane and how he made the better choice in moving to Paris. Mark Few would also seem like a mystery to him. Coach Few could have left for different pastures but stays. So, he goes through his version of Spokane and makes it clear that his love of Art and Paris is so above such mundane as identifying with a sports team. I guess he has not looked into the face of his fellow Parians after the epic collapse of Paris Saint-Germain F.C. recently. They love art and they would not be like hick spokanites in staking their identity on sports.

But, like all young writer in search of a voice, he ignores that which doesn’t fit his narrative. Yes, mining and manufacturing have declined in Spokane, but it has become a regional center in healthcare. It has also attracted a growing population of transplants who are coming for the great outdoors and the slower pace of life. New homes are being built and new industries are popping up. It is also becoming a regional educational magnet, which again goes against his story, so it does not go in. Yes, Spokane is like any other place with its own sets of troubles, but it lacks the problems of Parisian slums and the growing racial tension with Paris. (As an American Expat writer living out his fantasies, he can conveniently ignore the real problems facing his adopted city.

He, in order to make good of the promise of his talent, will have to seriously examine his own relationship to the soil he sprung from, make peace with it. If not, he will end by recycling the insights of his heroes and offer nothing new to the world.

Tito, you give the author way too much credit. My Comp 101 instructor would have marked that article up with so much red it would have looked like a battle wound dressing and that's before addressing the factual errors. I do agree that he is "conflicted" in some way.

Hoopaholic
03-15-2017, 08:12 AM
As a writer and as an utter stranger to the city -- I've been there once -- this writer has some major personal issues. Throws lots of opinionated dots out there and fails to connect any. Larger issue, does this reflect the accuracy of Guardian articles per se. Hope not, as I'm a subscriber.

I dont know either but this article is probably going to keep me from seeking out other articles from this source.........have we lost editors and proof readers in the news business?

Zagceo
03-15-2017, 08:24 AM
http://www.inlander.com/Bloglander/archives/2017/03/14/yeah-that-guardian-piece-on-spokane-and-gonzaga-is-totally-full-of-it

titopoet
03-15-2017, 08:28 AM
Tito, you give the author way too much credit. My Comp 101 instructor would have marked that article up with so much red it would have looked like a battle wound dressing and that's before addressing the factual errors. I do agree that he is "conflicted" in some way.

Maybe, but it is a literary essay. He is getting pieces into the New Yorker and Guardian and went to Oxford. I have met several writers like him who have been hypnotized by Lost Generation writers without a sense of history. Yes, that generation of writers led interesting lives, but in their escaping into a romantic fantasy of art, they provided little resistance to the growing darkness around them that metastasize into the full blown diseases of the soul called Fascism and Nazism. We are living in a similar echo during our times. We need writers who can use their gifts to shine light piercing the darkness with truth.

TexasZagFan
03-15-2017, 08:40 AM
I dont know either but this article is probably going to keep me from seeking out other articles from this source.........have we lost editors and proof readers in the news business?

It's not just in the news business, my friend. The lack of attention to detail has permeated our society to the point that New York state is dropping its literacy tests for teachers, amid charges of racism. I see it in my office, as I clean up audit documents that are replete with spelling and grammatical errors.

Zagceo
03-15-2017, 08:40 AM
Went to Oxford and can't fact check? Sheesh..

Hoopaholic
03-15-2017, 09:38 AM
It's not just in the news business, my friend. The lack of attention to detail has permeated our society to the point that New York state is dropping its literacy tests for teachers, amid charges of racism. I see it in my office, as I clean up audit documents that are replete with spelling and grammatical errors.

I understand and agree

Hoopaholic
03-15-2017, 09:39 AM
Maybe, but it is a literary essay. He is getting pieces into the New Yorker and Guardian and went to Oxford. I have met several writers like him who have been hypnotized by Lost Generation writers without a sense of history. Yes, that generation of writers led interesting lives, but in their escaping into a romantic fantasy of art, they provided little resistance to the growing darkness around them that metastasize into the full blown diseases of the soul called Fascism and Nazism. We are living in a similar echo during our times. We need writers who can use their gifts to shine light piercing the darkness with truth.

I owe you a beer for this statement............completely agree

side note hope family is doing well my friend

march madness is amongst us

PeninsulaDog
03-15-2017, 11:48 AM
Maybe, but it is a literary essay. He is getting pieces into the New Yorker and Guardian and went to Oxford. I have met several writers like him who have been hypnotized by Lost Generation writers without a sense of history. Yes, that generation of writers led interesting lives, but in their escaping into a romantic fantasy of art, they provided little resistance to the growing darkness around them that metastasize into the full blown diseases of the soul called Fascism and Nazism. We are living in a similar echo during our times. We need writers who can use their gifts to shine light piercing the darkness with truth.

Bingo. The best essayists usually lead (or led) very interesting lives before their best work was published (e.g., Orwell, Hemingway, Mailer) or , at a minimum, worked as news reporters for some period of time before venturing into literary essay -- Thurber, Mencken, Wolf, Thompson, etc.. There are exceptions to the rule, but I think it's really hard to write anything profound about societal issues without the context that time and real experience provide. Given a little bit more of both, the kid might be ok.

Zagceo
03-15-2017, 01:41 PM
first question in presser....Guardian article

1:28:20

Few asked about Guardian 1:48:00.......calls it "Fake News"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P60MOmV7VuU

johno
03-15-2017, 03:09 PM
The article in the guardian is by a very young and talented writer with Daddy issues who has yet to find his voice. It is clear he is from Spokane and in his formative years he fell in love with the expat writers who made their home in Paris after World War I. I imagine his shelf filled with Hemingway, Miller, Nin and Stein among others. These lost generation of artists and writers move to Paris looking for a way to understand the madness of the world they had witness. They also became a siren to generations of budding American writers who fell in love with their use of art as a balm and escape from the darkness of post war period. Reading his blog, you can see his romance with that era. His themes are their themes. Loneliness of writers, the power of language and many others. While clearly he is talented, none of his post offered any new insights. He few his journey from Spokane to Paris as an escape.

Now, he returns to Spokane and needs validation that he made the right choice to live his writer’s life in Paris for now he is not living his life but the life of the writers he admires. His father is the moving crowbar of the piece. His son can’t understand why his father is such big Zags fans. He uses the metaphor of his dad home alone listening to the Zags on the radio as a sense of lost living in Spokane and how he made the better choice in moving to Paris. Mark Few would also seem like a mystery to him. Coach Few could have left for different pastures but stays. So, he goes through his version of Spokane and makes it clear that his love of Art and Paris is so above such mundane as identifying with a sports team. I guess he has not looked into the face of his fellow Parians after the epic collapse of Paris Saint-Germain F.C. recently. They love art and they would not be like hick spokanites in staking their identity on sports.

But, like all young writer in search of a voice, he ignores that which doesn’t fit his narrative. Yes, mining and manufacturing have declined in Spokane, but it has become a regional center in healthcare. It has also attracted a growing population of transplants who are coming for the great outdoors and the slower pace of life. New homes are being built and new industries are popping up. It is also becoming a regional educational magnet, which again goes against his story, so it does not go in. Yes, Spokane is like any other place with its own sets of troubles, but it lacks the problems of Parisian slums and the growing racial tension with Paris. (As an American Expat writer living out his fantasies, he can conveniently ignore the real problems facing his adopted city.

He, in order to make good of the promise of his talent, will have to seriously examine his own relationship to the soil he sprung from, make peace with it. If not, he will end by recycling the insights of his heroes and offer nothing new to the world.

Oh come now. Don't psychoanalyze someone you never met. Too much of that on TV. I agree the article sucks in many respects. Maybe he wrote it because a basketball player once kicked his dog, he hates gingers, or he was given a speeding ticket by a city cop.

DirtyDredZag
03-15-2017, 03:52 PM
I'm predicting murder rate will go up if this d-bag ever shows her face in Spokane again

titopoet
03-15-2017, 05:13 PM
Oh come now. Don't psychoanalyze someone you never met. Too much of that on TV. I agree the article sucks in many respects. Maybe he wrote it because a basketball player once kicked his dog, he hates gingers, or he was given a speeding ticket by a city cop.

Actually, he reminded me more of Kundra's Life is Elsewhere. When you think life is elsewhere then you find no home anywhere.

PeninsulaDog
03-15-2017, 05:29 PM
Pretty funny thread on Twitter right now: #codycomehome

Looks like the visitors bureau is having a little fun with this.

gu03alum
03-16-2017, 01:40 PM
Guardian apologized

LINK (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/news-blog/2017/mar/16/spokane-washington-town-gonzaga-guardian?CMP=twt_a-world_b-gdnworld)

Birddog
03-16-2017, 02:24 PM
From the apology

We ran the piece, we’re responsible for it, and we accept the criticism. Cody wrote it well, and in good faith, and he made some strong judgments, and we liked it, so we lightly edited it and published it. We didn’t expect the storm of criticism, but, looking back, we should have been more judicious in our editing, headline and presentation. We made some factual errors in the piece, but it was perhaps a question of tone: it was never our intention to mock or sneer, and for that we’re sorry.

I still wonder, how could they not catch "the tone"? Sloppy writing, sloppy editing.

Mantua
03-16-2017, 02:36 PM
They are getting attention and readers. That's all that matters to them. They are not in competition with the New York Times. That's for sure.

sullyzag66
03-16-2017, 04:05 PM
For me, the lingering question was why he couldn't buy his father a flat screen? Listening to a Zag game on the radio? That does harken back to another era.

Birddog
03-16-2017, 05:00 PM
For me, the lingering question was why he couldn't buy his father a flat screen? Listening to a Zag game on the radio? That does harken back to another era.

Probably prefers listening to Hudson over Heister and his two accomplices.

CDC84
03-17-2017, 10:16 PM
It was a ghost writer. The author's true name Wally Szczerbiak.

Birddog
03-18-2017, 01:43 PM
The Zags have to win to rescue Spokane!


How Gonzaga became the central hope for the struggling city of Spokane

Bowser
03-18-2017, 03:05 PM
Somebody's message thing is full.

webspinnre
03-18-2017, 03:08 PM
"Help me, Obi-wan-Gonzaga, you're my only hope!"

10 Piece Bucket
03-18-2017, 05:58 PM
The fact that you don't need a screened-in porch here is all I need to say to folks to prove that this is a great area to live in. No bugs, no humidity and THE ZAGS!

TravelinZag
03-18-2017, 07:01 PM
Was stunned by the crime increase, but not the continuing economic doldrums. Sad. Wish I had some answers. However, the notion that the success of a sports team can improve crime or the economy is fallacious. Ask Chicago if the Cubs' World Series win helped. The best that can be hoped for is a diversion from problems and a positive unifying force. In this regard, Spokane is fortunate to have Zags basketball and Eagles football.

Birddog
03-24-2017, 09:03 AM
Spokane's struggles put on hold for another day and a half. Thank you Bulldogs

Zags_Fanatic
03-24-2017, 09:17 AM
Was stunned by the crime increase, but not the continuing economic doldrums. Sad. Wish I had some answers. However, the notion that the success of a sports team can improve crime or the economy is fallacious. Ask Chicago if the Cubs' World Series win helped. The best that can be hoped for is a diversion from problems and a positive unifying force. In this regard, Spokane is fortunate to have Zags basketball and Eagles football.

The crime stats are totally misleading, just look at the list they cherry-picked. In that ranking property crime is weighed the same as murder and assault. Also Spokane reports a lot more crimes than cities like Detroit, Memphis, Oakland, etc. Spokane has it's problems, but violent crime isn't one of them and there is NO WAY it is one of the most dangerous cities in the country.