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View Full Version : Have the zags (can the zags) ever beat an elite team?



Zagquette
03-10-2017, 11:36 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history/_/team1/6058

Reviewing our tournament history you find that we have generally advanced until we run into an elite team that either went on to the final four or won the whole damn thing.

In the recent program history we have had some great wins but I would argue that we have never beat a true elite team. Being in the wcc, obviously we don't even get an opportunity to play an elite team every year but the results haven't always been pretty. Can we do it this year?

Hoopaholic
03-10-2017, 11:39 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history/_/team1/6058

Reviewing our tournament history you find that we have generally advanced until we run into an elite team that either went on to the final four or won the whole damn thing.

In the recent program history we have had some great wins but I would argue that we have never beat a true elite team. Being in the wcc, obviously we don't even get an opportunity to play an elite team every year but the results haven't always been pretty. Can we do it this year?

I guess I would need a clear definition of elite?

jazzdelmar
03-10-2017, 11:45 AM
I guess I would need a clear definition of elite?

For starters, a team ranked that year above the Zags.

gueastcoast
03-10-2017, 11:46 AM
Reviewing our tournament history you find that we have generally advanced until we run into an elite team that either went on to the final four or won the whole damn thing.


By definition, any team we have beaten in the tournament, no matter how good or "elite", will not then go on to final four or win the national championship. Could some of them have had they not run into a Zag buzzsaw? Sure, but counterfactuals are tough.

I think there examples of any number of wins we have had over the years over teams who "could have" gone the distance or close to it.

gonzagafan62
03-10-2017, 11:46 AM
For starters, a team ranked that year above the Zags.

Done that a lot.

EDIT: I would rank Stanford as an elite team

Zagquette
03-10-2017, 11:47 AM
Top 5 program that has a real chance to win the championship. As Bilas says, there really are only a handful of teams that can realistically win the title and they almost always do. As good as the program has been, define it as the only teams that would be favored against the zags this year.

The Zona win is probably the closest thing to an elite win we have had.

Hoopaholic
03-10-2017, 12:00 PM
For starters, a team ranked that year above the Zags.

Ap. Coaches poll or seeding. Or any of the three

SunDevilGolfZag
03-10-2017, 12:05 PM
To start with, I thought the Stanford win in 99 was pretty decent

Zagquette
03-10-2017, 12:10 PM
Agree: https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/03/14/sports/ncaa-tournament-second-round-west-tiny-gonzaga-comes-up-big-stanford-s-land.html

Probably our best tournament win, if not best program win.

TheGonzagaFactor
03-10-2017, 12:13 PM
Agree: https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/03/14/sports/ncaa-tournament-second-round-west-tiny-gonzaga-comes-up-big-stanford-s-land.html

Probably our best tournament win, if not best program win.

We did once beat two different teams, each ranked #3, 10 days apart. One of them was coming off a Final Four appearance.

Beating #2 UNC at MSG probably doesn't count for this either, huh?

LongIslandZagFan
03-10-2017, 12:16 PM
We did once beat two different teams, each ranked #3, 10 days apart (late 2004 I believe).

Beating #2 UNC at MSG probably doesn't count for this either, huh?

Think they are talking tourney games.

CDC84
03-10-2017, 12:31 PM
Stanford also went to the final four and almost knocked off Kentucky to get to the national title game the year prior to playing Gonzaga. They basically returned the same team. Lost a couple of guys...but many of the key components were still there.

The St. John's win in Tucson was back when SJU was still highly regarded as a program. Don't know if they were elite.

titopoet
03-10-2017, 12:45 PM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history/_/team1/6058

Reviewing our tournament history you find that we have generally advanced until we run into an elite team that either went on to the final four or won the whole damn thing.

In the recent program history we have had some great wins but I would argue that we have never beat a true elite team. Being in the wcc, obviously we don't even get an opportunity to play an elite team every year but the results haven't always been pretty. Can we do it this year?

Un, Yeah. Number 2 North Carolina in 2006 jumps out.

jazzdelmar
03-10-2017, 12:49 PM
NCAA tourney only.

sittingon50
03-10-2017, 01:16 PM
NCAA tourney only.

This.

GoZags
03-10-2017, 01:37 PM
NCAA tourney only.

2 seed St John's had been Top 5 prior to the 10 seed Zags beating them 82-76 in the '00 Round of 32.

jazzdelmar
03-10-2017, 01:43 PM
Virginia?

PeninsulaDog
03-10-2017, 02:26 PM
Done that a lot.

EDIT: I would rank Stanford as an elite team

Elite, or elitist? Discuss among yourselves . . . .

RenoZag
03-10-2017, 02:36 PM
Can we do it this year?


Can ? Yes !!

Will ? We'll see. . .

DixieZag
03-10-2017, 02:52 PM
For starters, a team ranked that year above the Zags.

Utah? At the tournament last year?

I realize that's not a traditional "elite" - but weren't they a 3 seed and us, an 11?

Zagdawg
03-10-2017, 02:57 PM
Seton Hall was a #6 and Utah was a #3 seed-- we were an #11 last year.

DixieZag
03-10-2017, 05:17 PM
Seton Hall was a #6 and Utah was a #3 seed-- we were an #11 last year.

One can debate whether Utah qualified as an "elite" in the tourney. A 3 seed infers one of the top 12 teams in the country. Certainly, not a bad thing to beat someone 8 spots higher in seeding than you. And it wasn't close. That was a good win, no matter how one slices it.

coolhandzag
03-10-2017, 05:23 PM
The opinion, or belief, that the Zags "have not" is not proof they "will not".

75Zag
03-10-2017, 05:30 PM
To me the definition of an "Elite" team is a team that has at least 5 National Championship banners hanging from the ceiling of their stadium. I do not recall that GU has ever beaten such a team (except UCLA?), but I if I am wrong I am confident that I will quickly be corrected.
But why does it matter? New young up-and-coming boxers have beaten old prize-fighters for generations. The new guard takes the place of the old guard. Life goes on.

Do you know the way to San Jose?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqWt49o7R-k

Go Bulldogs!

seacatfan
03-10-2017, 05:36 PM
Wow, that's a tough definition. 5 or more Championships? There's only a few elite teams in the country then. I don't think Kansas even meets that criteria. UCLA, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke...anybody else? Yeah, quick perusal, by that definition there are only 4 elites in the entire country.

MickMick
03-10-2017, 05:36 PM
We constantly have to do it. Don't we?

Reinforce that national narrative that GU doesn't belong.

The national pundits, the East Coast Hoops fans, hell, the dudes on the selection committee will never change their perception as long as GU fans keep helping to perpetuate these "story lines".

Just what in the hell is an elite team anyway?

How about 32-1 for starters.

Few is tired of this crap as well. You can tell it from his rhetoric.

"Go ahead and give them a five seed."

This team will be ready to play on March 16.

DixieZag
03-10-2017, 05:41 PM
Speaking only for myself, I thought the discussion involved only the tourney and "elite" meant a top seed.

I guess I missed it.

75Zag
03-10-2017, 05:48 PM
Wow, that's a tough definition. 5 or more Championships? There's only a few elite teams in the country then. I don't think Kansas even meets that criteria. UCLA, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke...anybody else? Yeah, quick perusal, by that definition there are only 4 elites in the entire country.

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, the definition of the word "elite" is: a group or class of people seen as having the most power and influence in a society, especially on account of their wealth or privilege. I have no doubt that UCLA, Kentucky, NC and Duke fit that definition. Kansas might be close to joining the elite. I doubt that anybody else in the BB world does.

Here's hoping that GU beats them all.

Do you know the way to San Jose?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqWt49o7R-k

Go Bulldogs!

kitzbuel
03-10-2017, 06:02 PM
At the risk of sounding like an idiot, the definition of the word "elite" is: a group or class of people seen as having the most power and influence in a society, especially on account of their wealth or privilege. I have no doubt that UCLA, Kentucky, NC and Duke fit that definition. Kansas might be close to joining the elite. I doubt that anybody else in the BB world does.

Here's hoping that GU beats them all.

Do you know the way to San Jose?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqWt49o7R-k

Go Bulldogs!
San Francisco is pretty close.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

CdAZagFan
03-10-2017, 09:13 PM
I see this as the next step in the evolution of this program... The tourney losses to Connecticut, UCLA, Duke and Syracuse late in the tourney will someday soon give way to wins over the bigger programs (and elites) in the latter stages. I'm hoping that starts this year with a trip to the final four.

Zagsker
03-11-2017, 06:32 AM
Speaking only for myself, I thought the discussion involved only the tourney and "elite" meant a top seed.

I guess I missed it.

You are correct