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tinfoilzag
03-08-2017, 08:43 AM
Our opponents have picked their poison and their choices recently have made for much closer games and 1 loss.

The game plan to beat the Zags going forward is to heavily defend the guards at the 3 point line, not sag on Karno to devalue his great passing out of double teams, go deep into the shot clock (even if it means multiple shot clock violations), and foul like crazy.

GU has an largely untapped resource that is being overlooked. Our 4 main bigs: Karno, JW3, Collins, and Tillie, are 32 of 73 from 3 for the year. That's 44%.

Teams have the blueprint to beat our current offense so we need to adapt for the tourney. We should unleash our skilled bigs from 3-point range (with smaller doses of Karno 3's of course).

strikenowhere
03-08-2017, 08:45 AM
Our opponents have picked their poison and their choices recently have made for much closer games and 1 loss.

The game plan to beat the Zags going forward is to heavily defend the guards at the 3 point line, not sag on Karno to devalue his great passing out of double teams, go deep into the shot clock (even if it means multiple shot clock violations), and foul like crazy.

GU has an largely untapped resource that is being overlooked. Our 4 main bigs: Karno, JW3, Collins, and Tillie, are 32 of 73 from 3 for the year. That's 44%.

Teams have the blueprint to beat our current offense so we need to adapt for the tourney. We should unleash our skilled bigs from 3-point range (with smaller doses of Karno 3's of course).

I think you can safely leave Karnowski out of this discussion ;) Good point, it would be funny inverting the post and 3-pt line to have the bigs roaming the perimeter dropping bombs.

zagfan24
03-08-2017, 08:48 AM
The percentages (albeit a small sample size) certainly support the notion that it is a tool the Zags have at their disposal.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2rc6dk2.jpg

Thomas_Sutpen
03-08-2017, 08:55 AM
Teams have the blueprint to beat our current offense so we need to adapt for the tourney. We should unleash our skilled bigs from 3-point range (with smaller doses of Karno 3's of course).

Yes, let's totally change our 8th-ranked offense (currently per Kenpom); you know, the one that has made us 32-1. Instead, we should go to something untried and untested in a single-elimination tournament played in large arenas that are difficult settings for 3-pt shooting teams.

Bombs away.

strikenowhere
03-08-2017, 09:00 AM
Yes, let's totally change our 8th-ranked offense (currently per Kenpom); you know, the one that has made us 32-1. Instead, we should go to something untried and untested in a single-elimination tournament played in large arenas that are difficult settings for 3-pt shooting teams.

Bombs away.

There's nothing wrong with throwing new looks at opponents, especially when they'll have oodles of game tape to peruse in order to establish a line of attack on existing patterns. I don't think TinFoilZag was implying the entire gameplan should be changed to this.

LeightonZag
03-08-2017, 09:04 AM
I've thought all year that Collins especially doesn't pop enough on the pick and roll. That last month of the season teams have figured out the way to play Nigel is to to hard hedge and then drag defend the post back to position so essentially a double team. Often times Collins rolls into a an already packed paint with nowhere to go. I'd like to see more pocket passes like the dagger we saw against Santa Clara. That in turn will open up the lane as well as pulling away the weak side defender.

tinfoilzag
03-08-2017, 09:08 AM
Yes, let's totally change our 8th-ranked offense (currently per Kenpom);

3 point shots are available for our bigs running our current offense.


we should go to something untried and untested

Plenty of teams have their big guys shoot the three. Wiltjer did it for us last year.


in a single-elimination tournament played in large arenas that are difficult settings for 3-pt shooting teams.

Changing a game plan to match an arena is self-defeating, the games aren't played outdoors.


Bombs away.

I'm glad you agree.

TexasZagFan
03-08-2017, 09:10 AM
There's nothing wrong with throwing new looks at opponents, especially when they'll have oodles of game tape to peruse in order to establish a line of attack on existing patterns. I don't think TinFoilZag was implying the entire gameplan should be changed to this.

Oodles of game tape do not give a typical college team a clue on how to move Karno out of his position when he establishes it. UOP, SCU, and St. Mary's all had the benefit of three games to figure out how to beat the Zags, not that I'm discounting our loss to BYU, a team that was maddeningly inconsistent to Cougar fans this year.

Markburn1
03-08-2017, 09:17 AM
Yes, let's totally change our 8th-ranked offense (currently per Kenpom); you know, the one that has made us 32-1. Instead, we should go to something untried and untested in a single-elimination tournament played in large arenas that are difficult settings for 3-pt shooting teams.

Bombs away.

Correct. However, in defense of the original post, opponents are not giving any respect to Williams at the top of the offense. I wouldn't mind him getting off two shots from there early on. If he is successful, that would force the opponent to guard him a bit further out thereby creating more space in the lane.

Having said that, you will remember when the Gaels were making a run and had closed the margin to ten? Collins took a wide open three early in the shot clock. He missed and I thought Few was going to have to be carried off the floor with a defibrillator attached to his chest.

tinfoilzag
03-08-2017, 09:30 AM
Having said that, you will remember when the Gaels were making a run and had closed the margin to ten? Collins took a wide open three early in the shot clock. He missed and I thought Few was going to have to be carried off the floor with a defibrillator attached to his chest.

This is a great example. Collins 3 last night was important. 44% from 3! Let them shoot if they are open. Trust them Few.

ZagOD7540
03-08-2017, 09:40 AM
Correct. However, in defense of the original post, opponents are not giving any respect to Williams at the top of the offense. I wouldn't mind him getting off two shots from there early on. If he is successful, that would force the opponent to guard him a bit further out thereby creating more space in the lane.

Having said that, you will remember when the Gaels were making a run and had closed the margin to ten? Collins took a wide open three early in the shot clock. He missed and I thought Few was going to have to be carried off the floor with a defibrillator attached to his chest.

I'm with you. You can see that teams are starting to sag big time off of Williams at the 10 to 12ft range. He needs to hit that shot or rip and take it hard to the rim. Teams have been baiting him. We didn't need Collins pulling the trigger that quick and early in the shot clock. We know he can stroke it, but it just wasn't the right time.

DixieZag
03-08-2017, 09:45 AM
Correct. However, in defense of the original post, opponents are not giving any respect to Williams at the top of the offense. I wouldn't mind him getting off two shots from there early on. If he is successful, that would force the opponent to guard him a bit further out thereby creating more space in the lane.

Having said that, you will remember when the Gaels were making a run and had closed the margin to ten? Collins took a wide open three early in the shot clock. He missed and I thought Few was going to have to be carried off the floor with a defibrillator attached to his chest.

Wasn't that real early in the shot clock? Like really early?

I had the impression that it was how quickly the shot was taken that might've bugged him more than Collins taking the wide-open shot.

gueastcoast
03-08-2017, 09:48 AM
Yes, let's totally change our 8th-ranked offense (currently per Kenpom); you know, the one that has made us 32-1. Instead, we should go to something untried and untested in a single-elimination tournament played in large arenas that are difficult settings for 3-pt shooting teams.

Bombs away.

Don't think the OP was suggesting cashiering what got us here but rather adapting to a strategy teams are employing with some degree of success. Nuance much?

Markburn1
03-08-2017, 09:51 AM
Wasn't that real early in the shot clock? Like really early?

I had the impression that it was how quickly the shot was taken that might've bugged him more than Collins taking the wide-open shot.

Yes it was. Way too early and with the Gaels developing momentum. Few was upset because of the situation. They needed a bucket to stem the tide. Didn't happen and SMC proceeded to cut the lead to five. Should have been a methodical possession looking for a great shot. The night before was the same shot but at the end of the shot clock. Added bonus, it went in.

Markburn1
03-08-2017, 09:58 AM
This is a great example. Collins 3 last night was important. 44% from 3! Let them shoot if they are open. Trust them Few.


You are missing the point.

An open shot is not necessarily a GOOD shot. Time and situation are of the utmost importance. A three from a big early in the shot clock with momentum against you is a BAD shot. That shot would be available multiple times in a thirty second shot clock and that was why Few had a conniption. I'm pretty sure Few does trust his bigs to take defense stretching shots, but they have to be taken in the correct circumstances.

Mr Vulture
03-08-2017, 10:06 AM
Our opponents have picked their poison and their choices recently have made for much closer games and 1 loss.

The game plan to beat the Zags going forward is to heavily defend the guards at the 3 point line, not sag on Karno to devalue his great passing out of double teams, go deep into the shot clock (even if it means multiple shot clock violations), and foul like crazy.

GU has an largely untapped resource that is being overlooked. Our 4 main bigs: Karno, JW3, Collins, and Tillie, are 32 of 73 from 3 for the year. That's 44%.

Teams have the blueprint to beat our current offense so we need to adapt for the tourney. We should unleash our skilled bigs from 3-point range (with smaller doses of Karno 3's of course).

Or we can stay the course with our team that is now 32-1 and just play our game??

seacatfan
03-08-2017, 10:15 AM
Zags have a combined 7 made 3's in the last 2 games, but they won. If you can pound it inside and hit 50-60% of your shots, that seems to work.

I have a feeling if Tillie, Collins and Williams started taking more 3's, those percentages might start to drop.

team6
03-08-2017, 10:16 AM
I really like how we don't rely on 3's, like at all. In the Saint Mary's game we took 7 and made 4. That's a great % but it is in no way a reason why we won. But we have the capability of going off from 3 from multiple people. That alone is a great weapon to have. Also if everyone happens to go go ice cold at the tournament at any point (hopefully never a long stretch) it wont hurt us as bad because it is not something we rely heavily on. Different players on the team have also shown they can make big 3's when we need them. But when we do play in the dome's with the huge back drops where teams really struggle on 3's. I'm hoping this wont affect us as much just because we can get past it by our great post play and guards, specifically NWG that can drive to the lane and create baskets.

TexasZagFan
03-08-2017, 10:25 AM
Or we can stay the course with our team that is now 32-1 and just play our game??

And "our game" is unequivocally "inside-out." The two most oft-used words in my vocabulary during the second half were "feed Karno." He's so good at getting Landale to commit silly fouls, which will be SMC's Achilles heel in the Dance.

strikenowhere
03-08-2017, 10:26 AM
Oodles of game tape do not give a typical college team a clue on how to move Karno out of his position when he establishes it. UOP, SCU, and St. Mary's all had the benefit of three games to figure out how to beat the Zags, not that I'm discounting our loss to BYU, a team that was maddeningly inconsistent to Cougar fans this year.

The difference here being that the quality of teams the Zags are going to face in the tournament after the first round will be far better than the WCC, where they could afford to rely on their strengths without having to worry too much about adjustments (other than to get their heads out of the clouds sometimes).

sittingon50
03-08-2017, 11:24 AM
To tinfoils OP, I think (& feel free to correct me) you may have seen exactly this when the Zags upset Stanford in Seattle in '99. Stanford were monsters on the boards so Monson had Eaton, Dench & Calvary (all capable) floating outside a bit more. Zags won the boards, handily.

Zagricultural
03-08-2017, 11:32 AM
I agree with the OP. Have Tillie, Collins, and Williams rain it down from Three. When the opposition adjusts, go inside with a vengeance. The lane has been extremely clogged the last 4 games, and against elite shot blockers nigel won't always get that floater off.