PDA

View Full Version : Changing Conferences



thebigsmoove
03-08-2017, 04:23 AM
For the longest i salivated at the thought of joining the Big East or the Pac 12 or even the old Mountain West before they lost Utah/BYU/etc. (yes i know, pipe dreams). Now i really would prefer to stay in the WCC and just work out a scheduling agreement with another conference during the non conference season. I would love to see the conference really work hard to help rebrand Portland, San Diego, Pepperdine, etc. as destination schools. I think we (the zag fans) see the WCC as one of the top mid major conferences, but we need more schools to raise their level of competition and talent. I would love the WCC to stick it to the rest of the country and become the Big East...of the west.

TexasZag
03-08-2017, 04:35 AM
For the longest i salivated at the thought of joining the Big East or the Pac 12 or even the old Mountain West before they lost Utah/BYU/etc. (yes i know, pipe dreams). Now i really would prefer to stay in the WCC and just work out a scheduling agreement with another conference during the non conference season. I would love to see the conference really work hard to help rebrand Portland, San Diego, Pepperdine, etc. as destination schools. I think we (the zag fans) see the WCC as one of the top mid major conferences, but we need more schools to raise their level of competition and talent. I would love the WCC to stick it to the rest of the country and become the Big East...of the west.

Speaking of rebranding, if the efforts at some of the non-competitive schools (e.g., coaching changes) bear fruit, maybe rebranding the WCC should be considered. As long as it's called the WCC there will be people that will see it as a weak conference, based mostly on long-held perceptions that may not have anything to do with the current state of affairs. One only has to look at the occasional sports know-it-alls' columns proclaiming this year's Zags to lack athleticism and defense to see that old labels are tough to shed.

thebigsmoove
03-08-2017, 04:58 AM
Speaking of rebranding, if the efforts at some of the non-competitive schools (e.g., coaching changes) bear fruit, maybe rebranding the WCC should be considered. As long as it's called the WCC there will be people that will see it as a weak conference, based mostly on long-held perceptions that may not have anything to do with the current state of affairs. One only has to look at the occasional sports know-it-alls' columns proclaiming this year's Zags to lack athleticism and defense to see that old labels are tough to shed.

Labels really are everything in college sports, arent they? Amazing how little respect teams west of the Mississippi get.

Snowkane
03-08-2017, 05:56 AM
I don't see LMU, Pepperdine, or Pacific ever being that competitive in the WCC.

CaliZag07
03-08-2017, 07:08 AM
It's funny to think that making 20 straight WCC Tournament Championship games (and winning the majority of them) would be considered detrimental to the conference. If it was really that easy for one team to dominate their conference, why doesn't it happen in all of the "weak" conferences?

Consistency and a dedication to the program from GU's administration should be commended. It's a win-win for Gonzaga. Basketball program becomes great and more students want to enroll at your school. More kids enroll, your endowment increases, and you spend that money on better basketball facilities. Better players commit, basketball program continues to excel, and students continue to enroll.

Other schools in the conference just need to be dedicated to this formula.

hooter73
03-08-2017, 07:11 AM
Everyone would love to see the other teams get more competitive. We have wanted to see it happen for twenty years. It's not going to happen.

LongIslandZagFan
03-08-2017, 07:17 AM
I don't see LMU, Pepperdine, or Pacific ever being that competitive in the WCC.

In this run of 19 years... I have SEEN Pepperdine being competitive... especially early on. So not sure the argument is all that valid.

JMHO... with all of the coaching changes... I feel like it will happen soon where there is more parity in the league. USF was strong this year and they are YOUNG. Santa Clara is making some inroads. We don't need all 10 to be great... but a solid top 5-6 teams would be great. Those two along with the big 3... and the conference is moving forward. Give these new coaches some time to recruit their own players and implement their systems.

Zagceo
03-08-2017, 07:19 AM
https://www.collegeraptor.com/Rankings/Details/Endowment/Conference/West%20Coast%20Conference

Pepperdine and Loyola for example....aren't interested in building a basketball infrastructure....ever.

Just don't wanna to finish last in league. How many remember that line?

vandalzag
03-08-2017, 07:20 AM
In this run of 19 years... I have SEEN Pepperdine being competitive... especially early on. So not sure the argument is all that valid.

JMHO... with all of the coaching changes... I feel like it will happen soon where there is more parity in the league. USF was strong this year and they are YOUNG. Santa Clara is making some inroads. We don't need all 10 to be great... but a solid top 5-6 teams would be great. Those two along with the big 3... and the conference is moving forward. Give these new coaches some time to recruit their own players and implement their systems.

It just depends on what investment the schools are going to make. Agreed it is a good start, but how many of these coaches are waiting for the one year hit to move on. Until the league as a hole decides to invest in athletics we will continue to see the big 2 or 3 and the leftovers just cashing checks.

zagmantis2001
03-08-2017, 07:23 AM
I don't see LMU, Pepperdine, or Pacific ever being that competitive in the WCC.

St. Mary's was a doormat for years before Randy Bennett turned it around. GU was not very good for a long time. It can happen.

gonzagafan62
03-08-2017, 07:26 AM
I think rebranding could work. WCC will be no slouch.

BYU is way better (hopefully for real this time)
SMC is still SMC
San Francisco won 20 games
Portland has the 17th best recruiting class by some rankings systems

There's some hope in there. Add that coaches like Damon Stoudemire, Herb Sendek and Marty Wilson were hired, these programs do care about basketball. I think it'll be a decent conference with some work. Not a top 6, but could be the best non power 6.

There's life in the WCC. I think it could work

bartruff1
03-08-2017, 07:29 AM
I don't see LMU, Pepperdine, or Pacific ever being that competitive in the WCC.

They have in the past....they have hired new coaches at Pacific and LMU....and not so long ago at Pep.... I read somewhere that Portland has a very strong recruiting class....

DixieZag
03-08-2017, 08:03 AM
I don't see LMU, Pepperdine, or Pacific ever being that competitive in the WCC.

I don't see Pacific.

But, one doesn't have to look back to the 50s to see that LMU and Pepp can be very competitive. And, LMU - along with SCU, might be the most able to afford what it takes.

I'm not sure how one rebrands the conference. I'm positive the WCC officials in main HQ would love to be equated to the Big East. But, what are you meaning by "rebrand"? Changing the name? "Big Pacific"? I'm not knocking the idea, just asking - most of the good names are gone. :)

Birddog
03-08-2017, 08:16 AM
I don't see Pacific.

But, one doesn't have to look back to the 50s to see that LMU and Pepp can be very competitive. And, LMU - along with SCU, might be the most able to afford what it takes.

I'm not sure how one rebrands the conference. I'm positive the WCC officials in main HQ would love to be equated to the Big East. But, what are you meaning by "rebrand"? Changing the name? "Big Pacific"? I'm not knocking the idea, just asking - most of the good names are gone. :)

Uo P has appeared in the NCAA Tourney 4 times since 2004, most recently 2013; they made the 2nd round 3 times.

CDC84
03-08-2017, 08:23 AM
My Dad works for a Mountain West Conference school. They have made a determined effort to become a "football first conference." Most of the schools in the league have taken money away from basketball to fund football more.

The MWC is a one bid league this year. Steve Fischer is going to be retiring soon at SDSU. A coaching change might happen a UNM.

I could see a situation where the WCC surpasses the MWC as a basketball league despite the MWC's football resources. And as you can find out on the internet, having football resources doesn't mean that you spend more money on basketball. Last season GU spent more $$$ on its men's basketball program than every Pac-12 team besides ASU, Arizona and UCLA.

Moreover, who wants to play games in places like Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO when you can play 7 league games in sunny California.

I am just pointing this out if any of the "GU as a basketball addition to the MWC" gets discussed again. It won't happen. It's now become possibly a step down.

Zagceo
03-08-2017, 08:28 AM
Uo P has appeared in the NCAA Tourney 4 times since 2004, most recently 2013; they made the 2nd round 3 times.

UOP has potential ...infrastructure in place and the dynamics of the area with promising new coach.

Zags_Fanatic
03-08-2017, 08:33 AM
Speaking of rebranding, if the efforts at some of the non-competitive schools (e.g., coaching changes) bear fruit, maybe rebranding the WCC should be considered. As long as it's called the WCC there will be people that will see it as a weak conference, based mostly on long-held perceptions that may not have anything to do with the current state of affairs. One only has to look at the occasional sports know-it-alls' columns proclaiming this year's Zags to lack athleticism and defense to see that old labels are tough to shed.

Let's just call it the East Coast Conference and cash in on that sweet, sweet bias.

madness
03-08-2017, 08:44 AM
I expect the next 2 recruiting classes at Pacific, Portland, USF, and SCU to be very strong with the new coaching staffs (Porter bringing in his sons to play as well).

USD, LMU & Pepp just need to follow suit and/or find viable coaches or they will be cellar dwellers for years.

BYU and SMC should sustain talent for many years.

So that's 7 of 10 teams on the upswing. Good timing for a re-brand.

TexasZagFan
03-08-2017, 08:52 AM
https://www.collegeraptor.com/Rankings/Details/Endowment/Conference/West%20Coast%20Conference

Pepperdine and Loyola for example....aren't interested in building a basketball infrastructure....ever.

Just don't wanna to finish last in league. How many remember that line?

For schools like Pepp, USD, Loyola, etc., here's my humble suggestion: budget at least $50K of that NCAA money for recruiting, specifically, for the metro areas of Dallas and Houston. Give yourself a couple of years to make inroads and establish relationships with local coaches. These two metro areas have approximately 14 million people living there.

For a kid with serious interest, try to get Mom & Dad to the campus, should be a done deal after that. I love DFW, but most of the campuses in the WCC are breathtaking. Many of these high schools have year round programs, not to mention kids with personal coaches (at least in North Texas).

One of our local boys played for Pepp for 4 years: Jett Raines, was WCC honorable mention his senior year.

You can field a competitive team with 3 stars, and coach them up.

thebigsmoove
03-08-2017, 09:13 AM
I am just pointing this out if any of the "GU as a basketball addition to the MWC" gets discussed again. It won't happen. It's now become possibly a step down.

100% agreed. I think the WCC is the better basketball conference already. The WCC is right there with the A10 and AAC for the best Mid Major conferences right now. I think our Non conference record as a conference was 71-44 this year and the WCC is 8th (above the A10) in the conference winning pct and 9th in Conference RPI just a smidge below the AAC and A10.

gonzagafan62
03-08-2017, 09:25 AM
100% agreed. I think the WCC is the better basketball conference already. The WCC is right there with the A10 and AAC for the best Mid Major conferences right now. I think our Non conference record as a conference was 71-44 this year and the WCC is 8th (above the A10) in the conference winning pct and 9th in Conference RPI just a smidge below the AAC and A10.

A10 will be a ton better next season for the record

seacatfan
03-08-2017, 09:26 AM
Pepperdine not competitive? They finished 4th 2 years in a row prior to a big step backwards this season. Since the top 3 are pretty much a given, I'd call that being competitive.

DixieZag
03-08-2017, 09:26 AM
Uo P has appeared in the NCAA Tourney 4 times since 2004, most recently 2013; they made the 2nd round 3 times.

Didn't know that. Thank you for adding it. Maybe they can.

seacatfan
03-08-2017, 09:31 AM
The Mountain West should be a cautionary tale of...something. They went from getting 4 and I think even 5 bids one year to now a perennial 1 bid league. Losing Utah and BYU doesn't account for their collapse. San Diego St., New Mexico, Colorado St. and UNLV have all declined.

DixieZag
03-08-2017, 09:32 AM
My Dad works for a Mountain West Conference school. They have made a determined effort to become a "football first conference." Most of the schools in the league have taken money away from basketball to fund football more.

The MWC is a one bid league this year. Steve Fischer is going to be retiring soon at SDSU. A coaching change might happen a UNM.

I could see a situation where the WCC surpasses the MWC as a basketball league despite the MWC's football resources. And as you can find out on the internet, having football resources doesn't mean that you spend more money on basketball. Last season GU spent more $$$ on its men's basketball program than every Pac-12 team besides ASU, Arizona and UCLA.

Moreover, who wants to play games in places like Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO when you can play 7 league games in sunny California.

I am just pointing this out if any of the "GU as a basketball addition to the MWC" gets discussed again. It won't happen. It's now become possibly a step down.

I also think they want to retain the Catholic character of the program/conference, and I think that's to be commended on many levels. They've earned the respect and - though not the only consideration - it is important.

SWZag
03-08-2017, 09:36 AM
I don't see LMU, Pepperdine, or Pacific ever being that competitive in the WCC.

LMU and Pepperdine both have a big history of success in the WCC. Pacific has had fairly recent success making it to the NCAA tourney a number of times. I don't see why either of these three schools can't turn it around. Coaching is everything, it really is. Damon is a name that will be able to add an additional help in recruiting, as will Porter in Portland. Dunlap at LMU is no slouch either with many connections. Smith at USF is doing well. It may take a couple years, but this league is on the right course.

A brand can only do so much. Coaching is everything. GU wasn't made successful because of branding, it was made successful because of coaching.

SWZag
03-08-2017, 09:42 AM
Uo P has appeared in the NCAA Tourney 4 times since 2004, most recently 2013; they made the 2nd round 3 times.

In 2004, they beat the #5 seed Providence in the first round as a 12th seed.
In the 2005 season they beat the 9 seed, 29-4 Pitt in the first round as the 8th seed.
In 2006, they lost to the #4 seed Boston College, in double overtime, as a #13 seed.

The last postseason they've had was 2014 in the CIT, winning 3 and then losing to Murray State in the Semifinals.

They have a fairly good history of hoops.

TexasZag
03-08-2017, 09:50 AM
Let's just call it the East Coast Conference and cash in on that sweet, sweet bias.

Yes! And if we get called on it, just say that it is an "alternative fact" and that we are indeed the Big East! I hear that claiming "alternative fact" is a way to avoid having to answer for claims that may seem questionable, at best.

Birddog
03-08-2017, 10:06 AM
In 2004, they beat the #5 seed Providence in the first round as a 12th seed.
In the 2005 season they beat the 9 seed, 29-4 Pitt in the first round as the 8th seed.
In 2006, they lost to the #4 seed Boston College, in double overtime, as a #13 seed.

The last postseason they've had was 2014 in the CIT, winning 3 and then losing to Murray State in the Semifinals.

They have a fairly good history of hoops.

In 2013 they were a 15 seed losing in 1st round to Miami

seacatfan
03-08-2017, 10:10 AM
Nobody is mentioning Santa Clara got a big upgrade in the coaching department going from Keating to Sendek. They'll miss Brownridge next year, but I think that's another program that can improve itself moving forward. And another program that has some history of success.

sideshow06
03-08-2017, 10:25 AM
Let's just call it the East Coast Conference and cash in on that sweet, sweet bias.

Lol. This.

CaliWG
03-08-2017, 10:46 AM
For the longest i salivated at the thought of joining the Big East or the Pac 12 or even the old Mountain West before they lost Utah/BYU/etc. (yes i know, pipe dreams). Now i really would prefer to stay in the WCC and just work out a scheduling agreement with another conference during the non conference season. I would love to see the conference really work hard to help rebrand Portland, San Diego, Pepperdine, etc. as destination schools. I think we (the zag fans) see the WCC as one of the top mid major conferences, but we need more schools to raise their level of competition and talent. I would love the WCC to stick it to the rest of the country and become the Big East...of the west.

As a BYU fan, I've got a bit of a controversial opinion on this subject:

I would love to see the MWC realize that emphasizing football has gotten them no where. They are Boise State and... nobody else in football. They actually have a decent collection of basketball schools that are currently way below where they've been historically. I would love if they realized the old-Big East model could work on the West Coast. Keep the football schools, but add Gonzaga, SMC, BYU, Wichita State, and UTEP and go to 16 teams. With a renewed emphasis on basketball I don't think it would be long before you'd see SDSU, UNLV, and New Mexico bounce back. And schools like Nevada, Utah State, Wyoming, and UTEP, which have also traditionally been basketball schools, could take a step up.

Tier 1: GU, WSU, SMC, BYU, UNLV, SDSU, UNM
Tier 2: UNR, Wyo, Boise, USU, UTEP, Fresno, CSU
Tier 3: SJSU, AFA

That is easily a 6-7 bid league, where now you may be getting 3 or 4 bids with these schools in different conferences. By having so many quality teams playing each other frequently the number of RPI T100 & T50 games would multiply exponentially, not only allowing for better resumes and better seeds, but for more teams to make the tournament. Not only that, but because of the depth of the league it would have a legit claim as the best basketball conference out West, which means more TV money and better TV time slots. And lastly, a potential 5 day tournament in Vegas would be epic (as long as its not on UNLV's home floor).

gonzagafan62
03-08-2017, 10:52 AM
Football in the mountain west seems like a waste of extra funding. At least they were competing in basketball

TexasZag
03-08-2017, 10:54 AM
LMU and Pepperdine both have a big history of success in the WCC. Pacific has had fairly recent success making it to the NCAA tourney a number of times. I don't see why either of these three schools can't turn it around. Coaching is everything, it really is. Damon is a name that will be able to add an additional help in recruiting, as will Porter in Portland. Dunlap at LMU is no slouch either with many connections. Smith at USF is doing well. It may take a couple years, but this league is on the right course.

A brand can only do so much. Coaching is everything. GU wasn't made successful because of branding, it was made successful because of coaching.

Yet GU rebranded in 1998 and we've been on a roll ever since (I'm not assigning causation, by the way). W
But who's to say that we'd gotten nearly as much press as we have if we still used some of those pre-1998 logos.

CDC84
03-08-2017, 11:15 AM
Football in the mountain west seems like a waste of extra funding. At least they were competing in basketball

Yep. You should see what has become of New Mexico. One of the best supported college basketball programs around. They still regularly drew 15,000 a night this year despite their miserable team and a coach that is one step away from a pink slip. But they want a powerhouse football team more. They already destroyed the women's team that was 3rd or 4th in attendance for years. Now hardly anyone shows up. It's only a matter of time until the Lobo fans stay away from The Pit for men's basketball.

Zagricultural
03-08-2017, 11:22 AM
As a BYU fan, I've got a bit of a controversial opinion on this subject:

I would love to see the MWC realize that emphasizing football has gotten them no where. They are Boise State and... nobody else in football. They actually have a decent collection of basketball schools that are currently way below where they've been historically. I would love if they realized the old-Big East model could work on the West Coast. Keep the football schools, but add Gonzaga, SMC, BYU, Wichita State, and UTEP and go to 16 teams. With a renewed emphasis on basketball I don't think it would be long before you'd see SDSU, UNLV, and New Mexico bounce back. And schools like Nevada, Utah State, Wyoming, and UTEP, which have also traditionally been basketball schools, could take a step up.

Tier 1: GU, WSU, SMC, BYU, UNLV, SDSU, UNM
Tier 2: UNR, Wyo, Boise, USU, UTEP, Fresno, CSU
Tier 3: SJSU, AFA

That is easily a 6-7 bid league, where now you may be getting 3 or 4 bids with these schools in different conferences. By having so many quality teams playing each other frequently the number of RPI T100 & T50 games would multiply exponentially, not only allowing for better resumes and better seeds, but for more teams to make the tournament. Not only that, but because of the depth of the league it would have a legit claim as the best basketball conference out West, which means more TV money and better TV time slots. And lastly, a potential 5 day tournament in Vegas would be epic (as long as its not on UNLV's home floor).

I would be totally in on this! Seems like a no-brainer in many ways.

bartruff1
03-08-2017, 11:24 AM
Gonzaga is not going to change conferences ...and BYU will leave as soon as they can find a better alternative..

maynard g krebs
03-08-2017, 11:34 AM
As a BYU fan, I've got a bit of a controversial opinion on this subject:

I would love to see the MWC realize that emphasizing football has gotten them no where. They are Boise State and... nobody else in football. They actually have a decent collection of basketball schools that are currently way below where they've been historically. I would love if they realized the old-Big East model could work on the West Coast. Keep the football schools, but add Gonzaga, SMC, BYU, Wichita State, and UTEP and go to 16 teams. With a renewed emphasis on basketball I don't think it would be long before you'd see SDSU, UNLV, and New Mexico bounce back. And schools like Nevada, Utah State, Wyoming, and UTEP, which have also traditionally been basketball schools, could take a step up.

Tier 1: GU, WSU, SMC, BYU, UNLV, SDSU, UNM
Tier 2: UNR, Wyo, Boise, USU, UTEP, Fresno, CSU
Tier 3: SJSU, AFA

That is easily a 6-7 bid league, where now you may be getting 3 or 4 bids with these schools in different conferences. By having so many quality teams playing each other frequently the number of RPI T100 & T50 games would multiply exponentially, not only allowing for better resumes and better seeds, but for more teams to make the tournament. Not only that, but because of the depth of the league it would have a legit claim as the best basketball conference out West, which means more TV money and better TV time slots. And lastly, a potential 5 day tournament in Vegas would be epic (as long as its not on UNLV's home floor).

I've said similar things in the past, and agree with the gist of your post. MWC will never be anything but a second tier fb conference and an after thought, on par with the MAC. But with some creative thinking it could be a national player in BB. Thing about the WCC is that it is, and will always be, second tier in the California cities to the Pac and the pros, and largely ignored as such. Dennis Awtrey, Hank Gathers, Steve Nash and Brandon Armstrong ain't coming back.

Part of GU's formula is that it is essemtially the pro franchise for Spokane, and has more in common with the Rocky Mtn cities in that regard, where CBB is the number 1 game in town. Big arenas make a difference too. You'll never get top players to play in those HS gyms unless you find a niche like SMC's w/ the Aussies.

Also, BYU's gonna bolt at the first oppty, and SMC fades back to the pack when RB leaves/retires unless they upgrade facilityes; just a matter of when. Then it's nothing but GU and the dwarves. Portland w/ Porter is the next hope, but it's the Blazers' town.

thebigsmoove
03-08-2017, 11:43 AM
Gonzaga is not going to change conferences ...and BYU will leave as soon as they can find a better alternative..

As much as id love to see that alternative to the PAC 12 come to fruition...I agree, BYU is going to the Big 12 before long and Gonzaga is going to remain the driver in the WCC seat.

SWZag
03-08-2017, 11:45 AM
Gonzaga is not going to change conferences ...and BYU will leave as soon as they can find a better alternative..

You mean..."as soon as they find a conference they can have a chance of being in the top 2?" :)

seacatfan
03-08-2017, 12:03 PM
BYU is going to the Big 12 before long

The Big 12 just took quite a bit of time to look at every possible school it could add and decided no expansion at this time. Are they really gonna go thru the same process again? It will be the same candidates again, if they just passed on them, what will be different in the future?

thebigsmoove
03-08-2017, 12:08 PM
The Big 12 just took quite a bit of time to look at every possible school it could add and decided no expansion at this time. Are they really gonna go thru the same process again? It will be the same candidates again, if they just passed on them, what will be different in the future?

The difference is their agreements expire in 2025 and Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State will likely depart for the future Pac 16...They will be looking to stay afloat by bringing in Houston, BYU, Cincinnati, etc.

It was a little too soon to begin that process and they didnt go about it the right way by making it a public process. Id bet there will be renewed interest in expansion soon enough. $$$$ talks.

seacatfan
03-08-2017, 12:12 PM
The difference is their agreements expire in 2025 and Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State will likely depart for the future Pac 16...They will be looking to stay afloat by bringing in Houston, BYU, Cincinnati, etc.

It was a little too soon to begin that process and they didnt go about it the right way by making it a public process. Id bet there will be renewed interest in expansion soon enough. $$$$ talks.

Huh. Well the Pac whiffed on Texas, Oklahoma etc. last time and ended up w/ Utah and Colorado as a consolation prize. Frankly I really hope this doesn't happen, nobody needs to deal w/ Texas Athletic Dept. and their massively inflated sense of self worth.

If the Big 12 loses flagship schools Texas and Oklahoma, they should just pack it in. They will become basically the AAC if they add schools like BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and a directional school from Florida. Still a decent basketball conference but a complete joke in football.

CDC84
03-08-2017, 12:26 PM
I thought there was something about Texas and their Longhorn Network that makes them unlikely to bail the Big 12.

Bogozags
03-08-2017, 12:27 PM
My Dad works for a Mountain West Conference school. They have made a determined effort to become a "football first conference." Most of the schools in the league have taken money away from basketball to fund football more.

The MWC is a one bid league this year. Steve Fischer is going to be retiring soon at SDSU. A coaching change might happen a UNM.

I could see a situation where the WCC surpasses the MWC as a basketball league despite the MWC's football resources. And as you can find out on the internet, having football resources doesn't mean that you spend more money on basketball. Last season GU spent more $$$ on its men's basketball program than every Pac-12 team besides ASU, Arizona and UCLA.

Moreover, who wants to play games in places like Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO when you can play 7 league games in sunny California.

I am just pointing this out if any of the "GU as a basketball addition to the MWC" gets discussed again. It won't happen. It's now become possibly a step down.

IMO it is doubtful that WCC Basketball improves over the next two-three years...WCC teams are going to have to be willing to go on the road and play Power Five Conference teams just like GU did to make a name for themselves...

USD, Pepperdine and LMU played a total of two Power Five Conference schools UCLA and USC. LMU played three MWC schools beating CSU on the road and losing to Nevada and BSU. They also lost to UConn at home. USD played USC, UCLA and SDSU losing to all three. Pepperdine only played USC and lost and then only played "bottom feeders" in the rest of their OOC games. I know Pepperdine had several injuries that completely changed the complexity of their team and truly effected the W/L record.

BYU has good talent on that team but can't win (except when they play us at home) big games...SMC has a very good team this year but didn't play anyone either - their game against the Flyers was a good road win.

I believe the MWC has had two down years in consecutive years...I remember three years ago they sent four teams to the dance...

The Big East will never invite us it just doesn't make economic sense and why share their TV income with GU and other mid-west and west schools when they don't have too...they are going to get four to six teams into the tourney.

You said, who wants to play games in places like Laramie and Ft. Collins...those places are pretty darn cold in the winter time BUT I would think the perception would be the MWC is a stronger basketball conference than the WCC and I agree...

The MWC is a football conference but those schools also have bigger fan bases as well as larger facilities...GU isn't moving tomorrow or anything in the future or at least in my lifetime but the chances are that the MWC BBall programs will improve before USD (which has a football program), LMU, Pepperdine, Portland, or USF...it is unlikely these schools will spend the money necessary to improve the "WCC Brand" to make the conference more viable.

Do we even know if the WCC has reached out to the MWC to play an inter-conference challenge? Or have we reached out to any other conferences outside of the P-5 schools to have a challenge series?

bartruff1
03-08-2017, 12:43 PM
You mean..."as soon as they find a conference they can have a chance of being in the top 2?"

:)

This has been a humiliation for BYU. If you read the SLC Papers you will see that the Utah fans are crucifying them (pun intended) for playing in a church league with high school facilities ...it is pitiful ...I feel sorry for them...:mecry:

I believe Gonzaga could play as difficult a schedule as possible on the road....if they want to forget about the home and home requirement...

sittingon50
03-08-2017, 10:34 PM
Per both the Portland & Pacific forums, it appears that the new Coaches are now involved in various degrees of house cleaning.

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 01:19 AM
The WCC is a laughingstock...Gonzaga should explore any and every way to try and play in a more competitive league

SWZag
03-09-2017, 06:40 AM
The WCC is a laughingstock...Gonzaga should explore any and every way to try and play in a more competitive league

Laughing stock to whom? Competitive doesn't mean a better league.

LongIslandZagFan
03-09-2017, 06:56 AM
The WCC is a laughingstock...Gonzaga should explore any and every way to try and play in a more competitive league

A conference that is in the top half of all conferences is a laughingstock? The #9 conference this year is a joke? BTW the difference between #7 and #9 this year is a win or two here and there different. I'd love for GU to be in the Big East... but stop calling the WCC a joke. It only diminishes everything GU has actually achieved and empowers to trolls out there that degrade the Zags.

avid-zag-fan
03-09-2017, 07:11 AM
What would help the Zags, is for the 4th and 5th place teams to be much better for more challenging conference games regardless of how bad 6-10 are. If the WCC had 5 top 50 teams then even if the other 5 were minus 300, it would be great for GU.

willandi
03-09-2017, 07:37 AM
What would help the Zags, is for the 4th and 5th place teams to be much better for more challenging conference games regardless of how bad 6-10 are. If the WCC had 5 top 50 teams then even if the other 5 were minus 300, it would be great for GU.

If they had 5 top 50 teams, the others couldn't be that low. Even the 10 losses to the top 5 would raise their RPI...kind of like the ACC!

bigblahla
03-09-2017, 07:55 AM
A conference that is in the top half of all conferences is a laughingstock? The #9 conference this year is a joke? BTW the difference between #7 and #9 this year is a win or two here and there different. I'd love for GU to be in the Big East... but stop calling the WCC a joke. It only diminishes everything GU has actually achieved and empowers trolls out there that degrade the Zags.

100% in agreement....

Go!! Zags!!!

avid-zag-fan
03-09-2017, 08:21 AM
I really don't care at all about RPI. When I watched Kansas vs. WV, I thought to myself that both those teams will be better tournament teams for having played that game late in the season. Plus the staff having to prepare the team for tough games on short notice also has a lot of benefits.

TexasZag
03-09-2017, 08:26 AM
I really don't care at all about RPI. When I watched Kansas vs. WV, I thought to myself that both those teams will be better tournament teams for having played that game late in the season. Plus the staff having to prepare the team for tough games on short notice also has a lot of benefits.

I agree. And I suspect that for the foreseeable future, GU will likely get screwed on seeding/matchups because they are percieved as not having earned better, because of the perception that the WCC is weak. It appears that that's generally how things play out for the Zags.

amaronizag
03-09-2017, 08:35 AM
Next year GU starts the season with the PK80 Tournament and then plays NOVA at Madison Square Gardens. Next year nobody can say "GU hasn't played anyone." Let's hope that kind of scheduling continues and silences the weak schedule argument for good.

former1dog
03-09-2017, 08:38 AM
The WCC is a laughingstock...Gonzaga should explore any and every way to try and play in a more competitive league

Ok, which leagues is that? This isn't a new question.

Please identify which league is a better fit for Gonzaga where we have a realistic chance of entry and a pragmatic way of making it work for Gonzaga sports as a whole.

TexasZagFan
03-09-2017, 08:59 AM
Ok, which leagues is that? This isn't a new question.

Please identify which league is a better fit for Gonzaga where we have a realistic chance of entry and a pragmatic way of making it work for Gonzaga sports as a whole.

I'm waiting for that, too.

It might be an intriguing topic after the next round of realignment in college football, likely to be dictated by TV networks. I'm speaking of the potential for four 16-team conferences throughout Div. 1 football, with a true playoff system. The teams that don't make the final 64 cut may be ripe for basketball conferences. Financially, these teams would be wise to drop football, as it would make it easier to deal with Title IX, and not that many teams make a profit from their football programs.

TexasZagFan
03-09-2017, 09:05 AM
Expected
RPI Rank


Team

RPI
Forecast

SOS
Forecast

SOS Rank
Forecast

Curr
W-L

Proj
W-L

Current
Conf W-L

Proj
Conf W-L

1-25
W-L

26-50
W-L

51-100
W-L

101-200
W-L

200+
W-L

Proj
OOC W-L

Proj
OOC RPI

Proj
OOC SOS

Current
RPI


10.0 Gonzaga 0.6444 0.5409 76 32-1 32-1 20-1 20-1 5-0 1-0 5-1 7-0 14-0 12-0 5 63 10
18.0 Saint Mary's 0.6226 0.5450 72 28-4 28-4 18-3 18-3 1-3 1-1 6-0 8-0 12-0 10-1 21 64 18
65.0 BYU 0.5611 0.5366 81 22-11 22-11 13-7 13-7 1-4 0-1 5-2 7-1 9-3 9-4 118 117 65
94.0 San Francisco 0.5389 0.5194 109 19-12 19-12 10-9 10-9 0-4 1-0 1-2 3-5 14-1 9-3 90 187 94
133.0 Santa Clara 0.5202 0.5359 82 16-16 16-16 11-9 11-9 0-6 0-1 4-2 1-6 11-1 5-7 243 210 133
150.0 Loyola Marymount 0.5093 0.5282 96 14-15 14-15 8-11 8-11 0-4 0-2 2-5 1-2 11-2 6-4 162 182 150
204.0 San Diego 0.4818 0.5142 125 12-18 12-18 6-13 6-13 0-5 0-1 1-4 2-4 9-4 6-5 195 237 204
222.0 Pacific 0.4692 0.5330 86 10-22 10-22 5-15 5-15 0-6 0-1 0-5 2-7 8-3 5-7 229 155 222
233.0 Portland 0.4620 0.5235 103 9-22 9-22 3-17 3-17 0-7 0-0 0-5 2-4 7-6 6-5 188 241 233
245.0 Pepperdine 0.4548 0.5294 93 8-22 8-22 5-14 5-14 0-4 0-1 1-5 2-4 5-8 3-8 271 132 245

http://www.rpiforecast.com/confs/WCC.html

I posted the link in case someone wants to reformat it. As it stands now, four teams are top 100 in RPI. The four schools below 200 are the concern. However, two of those teams have new coaches, and Portland's recruiting class is said to be solid.

So, is the WCC a "joke"? Hardly. Plenty of room to improve, of course.

SWZag
03-09-2017, 09:05 AM
A conference that is in the top half of all conferences is a laughingstock? The #9 conference this year is a joke? BTW the difference between #7 and #9 this year is a win or two here and there different. I'd love for GU to be in the Big East... but stop calling the WCC a joke. It only diminishes everything GU has actually achieved and empowers to trolls out there that degrade the Zags.

It's like the "Overrated" chant. It's absurd. "Our team just played their hearts out, beat a highly touted team, so let's call that other team overrated."

avid-zag-fan
03-09-2017, 09:09 AM
I actually think playing in the WCC is good for GU. NBA dads like Daye and Sabonis want to give their sons time to develop while their bodies mature to the pounding in the NBA. They were lottery picks no matter where they go. GU is perfect for them. High player development, quality practice competition and national exposure without the physical abuse in some other conferences. Collins too. 1 more year and his body and experience will be NBA ready. Every one here knows he's a lottery pick whenever he decides to enter the draft. We just need 2 or 4 more challenging conference games to be ready for the tourney.

TexasZagFan
03-09-2017, 09:29 AM
I actually think playing in the WCC is good for GU. NBA dads like Daye and Sabonis want to give their sons time to develop while their bodies mature to the pounding in the NBA. They were lottery picks no matter where they go. GU is perfect for them. High player development, quality practice competition and national exposure without the physical abuse in some other conferences. Collins too. 1 more year and his body and experience will be NBA ready. Every one here knows he's a lottery pick whenever he decides to enter the draft. We just need 2 or 4 more challenging conference games to be ready for the tourney.

I can't wait to see the progress to come when the hoops facility is completed.

Zach has struggled a bit down the stretch, could be he hit the freshman wall. Even though his first half against SMC was tough, his motor never stops running.

Zags_Fanatic
03-09-2017, 09:42 AM
Next year GU starts the season with the PK80 Tournament and then plays NOVA at Madison Square Gardens. Next year nobody can say "GU hasn't played anyone." Let's hope that kind of scheduling continues and silences the weak schedule argument for good. Nobody actually looks at the schedule and games played, this narrative will always exist. Hell, if GU wins the national championship this season the average fan will still find a way to crap on it. Just be ready for arguments like "they could only do it with P5 transfers", "they had the easiest road in the West regional", "sure they won this year, but it took 18 years to reach a FF so they are overrated", and I'm really looking forward to the supremely ironic "they only won because they are in a weak conference and didn't have to play anybody"

TravelinZag
03-09-2017, 10:04 AM
Only viable match would be expanded, two division Big East. Yeah, yeah, travel costs kill it for existing BE conference members and GU. How many non-revenue sports would GU have to drop to bring those costs down? Many of these, especially individual sports (golf, tennis) and sports which are aggregate of individual competitions (track & field, swimming, etc) rather than true team sports, have few participants, little or no audience, limited tv and public awareness, but cost money.

Is a school truly "less of a university" if it does not compete in sports like the above?

Would retaining such sports be better for GU than membership in a major conference of small private schools which do not play football?

Understand this would be controversial, but how else could the opportunity to join a near-perfect match for GU? Assume every effort is already being made to have several ball games each year on a home and home basis with Big East members and prospective members. If not, why not?

VaBeachZAG
03-09-2017, 10:35 AM
Oh, but they can say it and will! Rationality plays no role when the haters start hating. The haters will always have the "weak" WCC to fall back on as justification for the "hasn't played anyone" rant.

VaBeachZAG
03-09-2017, 10:37 AM
Exactly! The haters are gonna hate no matter what, it's just what they do.

Once and Future Zag
03-09-2017, 10:39 AM
Is a school truly "less of a university" if it does not compete in sports like the above?

Would retaining such sports be better for GU than membership in a major conference of small private schools which do not play football?


Yes, and yes.

maynard g krebs
03-09-2017, 10:58 AM
The WCC is a laughingstock...Gonzaga should explore any and every way to try and play in a more competitive league

Poor choice of words. It's a mid major league, second tier but above the majority of D1 basketball. By your language, a large majority of D1 basketball is a laughingstock. Might want to reconsider the disrespectful language.

Norwester
03-09-2017, 10:59 AM
Only viable match would be expanded, two division Big East. Yeah, yeah, travel costs kill it for existing BE conference members and GU. How many non-revenue sports would GU have to drop to bring those costs down? Many of these, especially individual sports (golf, tennis) and sports which are aggregate of individual competitions (track & field, swimming, etc) rather than true team sports, have few participants, little or no audience, limited tv and public awareness, but cost money.

Is a school truly "less of a university" if it does not compete in sports like the above?

Would retaining such sports be better for GU than membership in a major conference of small private schools which do not play football?

Understand this would be controversial, but how else could the opportunity to join a near-perfect match for GU? Assume every effort is already being made to have several ball games each year on a home and home basis with Big East members and prospective members. If not, why not?

You can't just drop sports to same money. Each D-1 school must have 7 men's sports and 7 women's sports to be a D-1 institution.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification

TexasZag
03-09-2017, 12:51 PM
You can't just drop sports to same money. Each D-1 school must have 7 men's sports and 7 women's sports to be a D-1 institution.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification

Even if Gonzaga could dump these non-revenue generating sports, is it really in the best interest of the institution to do so? I think not. As important as basketball is at GU, the school is much more than a basketball school. Denying students the opportunity to compete competitively in these other sports just doesn't seem right. My guess is that the school would suffer over the long term by making such a decision.

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 12:58 PM
A conference that is in the top half of all conferences is a laughingstock? The #9 conference this year is a joke? BTW the difference between #7 and #9 this year is a win or two here and there different. I'd love for GU to be in the Big East... but stop calling the WCC a joke. It only diminishes everything GU has actually achieved and empowers to trolls out there that degrade the Zags.


I guess denial is a river in Africa....the WCC is not a good conference. not even close

maynard g krebs
03-09-2017, 01:07 PM
I guess denial is a river in Africa....the WCC is not a good conference. not even close

Guess you need to work on your reading comprehension as well as your choice of words. Obviously everyone would like to see GU in a conference that tests them more than 4 games in conference play. But the conference is not a laughing stock in overall D1 terms. It is better than average, and denial, ironically, is saying otherwise.

gonzagafan62
03-09-2017, 01:09 PM
conference is a non issue

1. Our other sports wouldn't do good in another conference
2. While yes we could "possibly" get better recruits in other conferences the.....
3. Women's basketball, golf, baseball heck even cross country has gotten SIGNIFICANTLY

We are just now starting to compete at a decent level in these sports thanks to national recognition in basketball. We are building a university of good sports. Not just one that's good at only basketball.

I think both can work, although one that has no easy resolution

Hoopaholic
03-09-2017, 01:18 PM
I am happy to be where we are if the conference would make ONE change

reduce the number of games in conference to open up the ability to schedule out of conference as a team desires while starting league play earlier to provide open week options during conference play for OOS opportunities

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 01:19 PM
if no other conference is willing to have the zags then we should play basketball as an independent

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 01:21 PM
Guess you need to work on your reading comprehension as well as your choice of words. Obviously everyone would like to see GU in a conference that tests them more than 4 games in conference play. But the conference is not a laughing stock in overall D1 terms. It is better than average, and denial, ironically, is saying otherwise.

OK so great the WCC is better than the Summit leagues and the SWAC and the MEACs of the world...that's not really setting the bar very high. If they want to truly be an elite basketball program they need to find a way to play in a top 5 or 6 conference. otherwise the flack about being soft and playing no one of substance after the new year will rightfully continue...GU is going to get jobbed out of a top seed in favor of Oregon or UCLA for no other reason than their conference. Its not fair but thats the game

former1dog
03-09-2017, 01:22 PM
I guess denial is a river in Africa....the WCC is not a good conference. not even close

Well, if you toss out national relevance in:

Basketball
Baseball
Cross Country Running
Men's and Women's Soccer
Men's and Women's Volleyball
Men's and Women's Golf
Diving
Swimming
Water Polo
and Track and Field

You might be correct.

Oh wait, you're not.

MickMick
03-09-2017, 01:23 PM
The conference coaching has improved. It takes time for the recruiting to catch up.

Once and Future Zag
03-09-2017, 01:25 PM
if no other conference is willing to have the zags then we should play basketball as an independent

This is an entirely new level of delusion.

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 01:26 PM
:adored:

seacatfan
03-09-2017, 01:29 PM
This is an entirely new level of delusion.

What? Scheduling would be no problem at all late December thru late February/early March while everybody else is playing 2 or 3 conference games per week, right?

Once and Future Zag
03-09-2017, 01:32 PM
oh wait no one gives a rats c*** about all but two of those sports...I meant in basketball because that's what this discussion is about smartass

Wow. That escalated to a full on tilt - including the edit to make it MORE aggressive.

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 01:34 PM
Johns Hopkins lacrosse plays elite competition despite being division 3 in everything else...a lot of hockey programs do the same. Why cant GU figure something out

former1dog
03-09-2017, 01:36 PM
oh wait no one gives a rats c*** about all but two of those sports...I meant in basketball because that's what this discussion is about smartass

Other than you, literally thousands of people care about these sports. They are relevant because you can't toss them out when considering any conference affiliation, unless you're unfamiliar with the rules that govern the NCAA participation and just want to discuss hypotheticals with no basis in reality.

sittingon50
03-09-2017, 01:41 PM
This is an entirely new level of delusion.

Someone should write a paper!

:roll:

Once and Future Zag
03-09-2017, 01:41 PM
Someone should write a paper!

:roll:

[citation needed]

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 01:54 PM
as long as geography means squat why not join the A10 or the Mizzou Valley

seacatfan
03-09-2017, 02:01 PM
Missouri Valley would be a long way to go for basically a lateral move. Wichita St. is always good, but after that? Creighton is gone. Northern Iowa down this year. Drake had one great year but otherwise is not much. Illinois St. had a nice season this year but probably not good enough to get an at large bid. Southern Illinois used to be a strong program...about a decade ago. MVC is probably marginally better than WCC most years, but not enough to justify a move that doesn't make sense geographically. A-10 I might say the same about. After the new Big East raided them they ain't what they used to be.

former1dog
03-09-2017, 02:04 PM
as long as geography means squat why not join the A10 or the Mizzou Valley

Geography is a factor, though. Why would you think it means squat?

TexasZag
03-09-2017, 02:27 PM
The conference coaching has improved. It takes time for the recruiting to catch up.

It takes even longer for perceptions to change. Regardless of how we stack up against other non-P5 conferences, the WCC is perceived as weak. It could take a decade or longer to reap any significant benefits of any substantive changes within the conference.

Zigzag92
03-09-2017, 02:58 PM
Geography is a factor, though. Why would you think it means squat?


wvu is in the Big XII...Marquette and Creighton are in the big east, maryland in the big 10 etc

JAGzag
03-09-2017, 03:04 PM
It takes even longer for perceptions to change. Regardless of how we stack up against other non-P5 conferences, the WCC is perceived as weak. It could take a decade or longer to reap any significant benefits of any substantive changes within the conference.

Longer, if ever. GU's been too 25 or higher for 20 years and we're still getting over the stigma of being "small time."

SWZag
03-10-2017, 06:34 AM
as long as geography means squat why not join the A10 or the Mizzou Valley

Maybe GU should just leave Spokane and move to Chicago. Wait, maybe just the mens basketball team can move. Maybe GU can make an agreement that the players can take classes at Loyola-Chicago. We'll then have plenty of league options.

LongIslandZagFan
03-10-2017, 06:44 AM
oh wait no one gives a rats c*** about all but two of those sports...I meant in basketball because that's what this discussion is about smartass

Really? You can stop speaking for me at any time. I care about how GU does in all of those sports.

LongIslandZagFan
03-10-2017, 06:46 AM
wvu is in the Big XII...Marquette and Creighton are in the big east, maryland in the big 10 etc


WV is a state school with much deeper pockets that can afford to fly their teams everywhere. Your other two examples... you are talking 1 timezone and less than half the distance as opposed to 3.

TexasZagFan
03-10-2017, 06:54 AM
Johns Hopkins lacrosse plays elite competition despite being division 3 in everything else...a lot of hockey programs do the same. Why cant GU figure something out

If I read your post correctly, you think Gonzaga should drop down to Division 3 in all other sports to focus solely on the hoops program. I know of no alumni that thinks that's a desirable course of action. You're still going to have Title IX issues to deal with, and it makes no sense financially. The rest of the WCC would vote to sever the Zags from their share of NCAA money.

Conversations like these are an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with power tools.

U Zig, I Zag
03-10-2017, 07:03 AM
Somebody say Drake?

https://media.giphy.com/media/t8v8vNcTTm4zm/giphy.gif

75Zag
03-10-2017, 07:09 AM
After discussing this topic for the past 10 years or more, I have reluctantly concluded that GU does not have any viable options to move to a different conference. Unfortunately for GU, I believe that the other WCC schools are also confident that GU does not have any viable options. As a result, GU is the "cash cow" for the WCC in terms of NCAA earnings and in terms of ticket sales to away games, but the WCC fails to give GU any more respect or voting power than it gives to the worst and least of the other WCC athletic programs. In private industry if you are the highest earner at your company you either gain power within your existing organization or you quit and take your earning power to a different company which you believe will give you the respect and compensation you deserve. But apparently GU can't do that.
I believe we are fortunate that our excellent coaching staff and sports administration continues to build and promote GU's programs notwithstanding the attitude of the remainder of the WCC regarding athletic spending, development, promotion, etc.

Go Bulldogs!

SWZag
03-10-2017, 07:24 AM
After discussing this topic for the past 10 years or more, I have reluctantly concluded that GU does not have any viable options to move to a different conference. Unfortunately for GU, I believe that the other WCC schools are also confident that GU does not have any viable options. As a result, GU is the "cash cow" for the WCC in terms of NCAA earnings and in terms of ticket sales to away games, but the WCC fails to give GU any more respect or voting power than it gives to the worst and least of the other WCC athletic programs. In private industry if you are the highest earner at your company you either gain power within your existing organization or you quit and take your earning power to a different company which you believe will give you the respect and compensation you deserve. But apparently GU can't do that.
I believe we are fortunate that our excellent coaching staff and sports administration continues to build and promote GU's programs notwithstanding the attitude of the remainder of the WCC regarding athletic spending, development, promotion, etc.

Go Bulldogs!
I understand what you're saying, and appreciate it. But I don't understand why people think GU should have more voting power just because they are tops in one or two sports. I believe that is selfish, just like thinking we belong in a better league. If people think GU is too good for the WCC, that's a selfish notion. There is something noble about being content. Going to a "bigger" league doesn't make GU better. It could actually do the opposite. People look at the here and now and forget everything else. People fail to remember 20 years and beyond ago. If GU had more voting power, do you really think the worst teams would ever improve when they have a fraction of a vote? It's be like kicking them when they're down. Sure, GU has done great things for the league, outstanding things from recognition to money. I know I would take pride in the fact that GU is creating something far greater than themselves. They're building an entire league, and that's something people should take pride in.

Lastly, if people think GU isn't getting recognized by the league enough, is it a good example to student athletes and everyone else that if adversity comes in life, just run?

Just my two little cents. :)

zagfan24
03-10-2017, 07:43 AM
I understand what you're saying, and appreciate it. But I don't understand why people think GU should have more voting power just because they are tops in one or two sports. I believe that is selfish, just like thinking we belong in a better league. If people think GU is too good for the WCC, that's a selfish notion. There is something noble about being content. Going to a "bigger" league doesn't make GU better. It could actually do the opposite. People look at the here and now and forget everything else. People fail to remember 20 years and beyond ago. If GU had more voting power, do you really think the worst teams would ever improve when they have a fraction of a vote? It's be like kicking them when they're down. Sure, GU has done great things for the league, outstanding things from recognition to money. I know I would take pride in the fact that GU is creating something far greater than themselves. They're building an entire league, and that's something people should take pride in.

Lastly, if people think GU isn't getting recognized by the league enough, is it a good example to student athletes and everyone else that if adversity comes in life, just run?

Just my two little cents. :)

Nice post, SW. I agree with most of what you wrote.

When you consider the multitude of variables at hand, the WCC is the best fit for Gonzaga for the foreseeable future. We have been fortunate that SMC has developed into a perennial contender as well. I don't think BYU will be in the league that much longer, but I do see a few programs showing some hint of improvement particularly with the recent coaching hires.

It always used to bother me when analysts or fans proposed the "If Gonzaga was in different conference...." question because that scenario left out the fact that IF GU was in a bigger conference the recruiting landscape, budget, etc. would all change too. At this point in time, I have begun to see some advantages to Gonzaga's conference affiliation when it comes to recruiting. I can't help but think that the graduate transfers in particular find appeal in the fact that the Zags are an annual tournament competitor, even in the rare down season.

75Zag
03-10-2017, 07:51 AM
SWZag, I respect your response and your approach to life.
For better or worse, in my world most people are more concerned about their personal bottom line than they are about loyalty, dedication, aspirational principles, etc. If you own a bakery and you have one baker who bakes 600,000 loaves of bread a year and you have 7 bakers who each bake 200,000 loaves of bread a year, and you pay all of your bakers the same and give all of them the same vote and voice in the organization, you are headed for an explosion. That is particularly true if the 7 lowest producing bakers all refuse to even try to increase their production.
I am a big believer in loyalty and "sticking things out through thick and thin" which is why I have worked at the same bakery for nearly 40 years, but in the private business world, the old days are ending or already over and people jump to a different bakery on a moment's notice.
If GU stays in the WCC out of a sense of loyalty and duty and working towards a higher power, then I certainly won't criticize them, but to be honest, I think GU stays in the WCC because they don't have a choice, and the WCC takes advantage of that. And that does not feel warm and fuzzy.

Go Bulldogs!

LongIslandZagFan
03-10-2017, 08:13 AM
SWZag, I respect your response and your approach to life.
For better or worse, in my world most people are more concerned about their personal bottom line than they are about loyalty, dedication, aspirational principles, etc. If you own a bakery and you have one baker who bakes 600,000 loaves of bread a year and you have 7 bakers who each bake 200,000 loaves of bread a year, and you pay all of your bakers the same and give all of them the same vote and voice in the organization, you are headed for an explosion. That is particularly true if the 7 lowest producing bakers all refuse to even try to increase their production.
I am a big believer in loyalty and "sticking things out through thick and thin" which is why I have worked at the same bakery for nearly 40 years, but in the private business world, the old days are ending or already over and people jump to a different bakery on a moment's notice.
If GU stays in the WCC out of a sense of loyalty and duty and working towards a higher power, then I certainly won't criticize them, but to be honest, I think GU stays in the WCC because they don't have a choice, and the WCC takes advantage of that. And that does not feel warm and fuzzy.

Go Bulldogs!

I appreciate the anology... but perhaps the bakers making 200,000 loaves... are also baking 400,000 other pastries where there first one isn't. There are more sports involved here than JUST basketball. Portland and Santa Clara have a strong history in soccer. Pepperdine and San Diego in baseball. Maybe not to the level of GU in basketball, but I don't think it is fair to completely discount everything else.

Zagdawg
03-10-2017, 08:29 AM
Interesting scholarship numbers/dollars.

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/average-per-athlete.html

TexasZagFan
03-10-2017, 08:40 AM
I appreciate the anology... but perhaps the bakers making 200,000 loaves... are also baking 400,000 other pastries where there first one isn't. There are more sports involved here than JUST basketball. Portland and Santa Clara have a strong history in soccer. Pepperdine and San Diego in baseball. Maybe not to the level of GU in basketball, but I don't think it is fair to completely discount everything else.

My copy of Glory Hounds arrived last night, and I read that nugget about more university presidents getting on board with more resources for their basketball programs. I think we've seen evidence of that with UOP, Portland, and SCU. USF's also a rising program now. Perhaps better days are ahead.

LongIslandZagFan
03-10-2017, 08:41 AM
Very interesting indeed...

Average athletic scholarship by school (just selected a handful)



School
Avg. Men's
Avg. Womens


Santa Clara
15,091
16,581


USF
24,239
39,312


Portland
21,936
19,818


LMU
16,182
24,358


Pepperdine
19,880
27,859


Gonzaga
10,359
11,906



Going to let the numbers themselves do any talking.

Note... I was NOT expecting GU to be the lowest of the group.

sittingon50
03-10-2017, 10:41 AM
http://www.wccsports.com/news/byu-wins-fourth-consecutive-wcc-commissioner-s-cup-06-08-2016

Zigzag92
03-10-2017, 02:27 PM
there's a way to play in a more prestigious and competitive conference...bottom line is it wont be done because beating up on the WCC is safe and easy and gives Few a job for life

maynard g krebs
03-10-2017, 02:54 PM
there's a way to play in a more prestigious and competitive conference...bottom line is it wont be done because beating up on the WCC is safe and easy and gives Few a job for life

Clear that you're just trolling.

jazzdelmar
03-10-2017, 02:58 PM
LIZF-At first blush, I would say GU does a masterful job of maximizing limited resources by dispersing aid among many more students.

gonzagafan62
03-10-2017, 03:41 PM
I am happy to be where we are if the conference would make ONE change

reduce the number of games in conference to open up the ability to schedule out of conference as a team desires while starting league play earlier to provide open week options during conference play for OOS opportunities

I agree 100%

kclubfounder
03-10-2017, 03:56 PM
I simply don't understand the desire anyone has to move to another conference. Ummm, it seems to me this conference has worked out pretty dang well for Gonzaga. Now, that being said, I am open to changes within the conference that leads to our sister schools improving. But move to another conference? Give me a break.

LongIslandZagFan
03-10-2017, 05:41 PM
LIZF-At first blush, I would say GU does a masterful job of maximizing limited resources by dispersing aid among many more students.

Zags seem to spend more on facilities and staff to improve the athletes (all not just hoops) as opposed to schollies. BTW... I do NOT see that as a bad thing.

LongIslandZagFan
03-10-2017, 05:46 PM
there's a way to play in a more prestigious and competitive conference...bottom line is it wont be done because beating up on the WCC is safe and easy and gives Few a job for life

Hopkins and Lacrosse are horrible examples by the way. Mostly because D1 Lax is treated differently than most other sports due to limited participation. Total aside... my brother played D1 Lax for Navy back in the 80s... just retired from the Navy this year as a Captain after 26 years. But I digress. I also think dropping all other sports to lower divisions (which again, is an impossibility because hoops doesn't get exceptions like lacrosse) would be a disservice to those student.

75Zag
03-10-2017, 05:57 PM
Little '75 was on the GU women's golf team and did very well. She got to travel a bit and also had some fun in the greater Spokane area for practice, etc. If GU had been in the Pac - 12 and she was required to compete against the women golfers at Arizona State - many of whom went directly to the LPGA, that probably would not have happened. And other than getting an A in Organic Chemistry, what could possibly prepare a young woman for medical school better than being on the golf team?

Do you know the way to San Jose?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqWt49o7R-k

Go Bulldogs!

Once and Future Zag
03-10-2017, 06:22 PM
I simply don't understand the desire anyone has to move to another conference. Ummm, it seems to me this conference has worked out pretty dang well for Gonzaga. Now, that being said, I am open to changes within the conference that leads to our sister schools improving. But move to another conference? Give me a break.

+1