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View Full Version : Worst outside shooting I can ever remember



23dpg
03-06-2017, 07:08 PM
Scroll to the bottom of this link and look at the shot chart. 4 outside shots were made, 2 in the last minute.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400945623

gonzagafan62
03-06-2017, 07:09 PM
That didn't look good at all.

Especially when you know Collins made one of those. Hopefully they are saving them for tomorrow night

ZagLawGrad
03-06-2017, 07:18 PM
Sometimes a guy needs to recognize by the 10 minute mark in the second half that it isn't his nite to be shooting. Maybe better to get the ball to someone else.

LMUZAG
03-06-2017, 07:18 PM
Silver lining. Almost 60% overall, and terrific foul shooting.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

U Zig, I Zag
03-06-2017, 07:21 PM
A concerted effort has been made to go inside. Instead of immediately kicking back out (basically a volley inside then back out in a matter of 3-4 seconds) the bigs are going into the lane and putting it on the deck. This works, generally.

However, there is a time and place for in/out and lighting passes around the horn, back in from the corner, back out and back around again. Make them move. Someone will be wide, wide open. That's when we have been killing teams from deep. Haven't seen that in some time (consistently anyway)

jpn17
03-06-2017, 07:22 PM
Funny thing is Gonzaga ended up shooting 30% from 3, making their last 2, which isn't a terrible percentage. The good part was that they didn't take a ton of 3 point shots tonight. They weren't falling and they didn't force them. That is a good thing IMO.

Hoopaholic
03-06-2017, 07:25 PM
A concerted effort has been made to go inside. Instead of immediately kicking back out (basically a volley inside then back out in a matter of 3-4 seconds) the bigs are going into the lane and putting it on the deck. This works, generally.

However, there is a time and place for in/out and lighting passes around the horn, back in from the corner, back out and back around again. Make them move. Someone will be wide, wide open. That's when we have been killing teams from deep. Haven't seen that in some time (consistently anyway)

because there was no double down from the wing or top of the key like we saw the first half of the WCC.....so it was one on one basketball and they showed how effective they are when allowed to go one on one in paint

bartruff1
03-06-2017, 07:26 PM
The two at the end were the one's that counted and they were as good or better than any others I can recall this year...

team6
03-06-2017, 07:27 PM
Funny thing is Gonzaga ended up shooting 30% from 3, making their last 2, which isn't a terrible percentage. The good part was that they didn't take a ton of 3 point shots tonight. They weren't falling and they didn't force them. That is a good thing IMO.

This, and no one missed more then 2.

gonstu
03-06-2017, 07:28 PM
Wow - for being 31-1 heading into yet another wcc tourney champ game I wish I was feeling more confident in the team. Maybe I'm spoiled. Or maybe i'm just preparing and protecting my psyche in case of an early round exit.

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-06-2017, 07:29 PM
NCAA opponent #1 is sure to clog up the middle and dare Zags to knock down outside shots. Perkins and Melson are gonna need to step up and knock down shots.

DixieZag
03-06-2017, 07:30 PM
They were horrid from outside, we need either Melson or Perkins to step up - that's from the coaches, I believe, not some cheap shot on the board.

But, I do like the discipline and dedication to going inside when they're not hitting them.

I don't think that dribble backdown is going to work past the 2nd round. Teams will just get too good, and have the inside presence, or the quick enough double team to take that away. But, hopefully by then we'll have someone consistently shooting.

Of course, no one is expecting a team to go deep shooting like that. And we won't. But, I like the discipline to not keep shooting until the 3s started going down.

U Zig, I Zag
03-06-2017, 07:33 PM
because there was no double down from the wing or top of the key like we saw the first half of the WCC.....so it was one on one basketball and they showed how effective they are when allowed to go one on one in paint

The fast snap passes can be a result of the double down - someone should be open. But when you are moving the ball with speed and precision, especially against a slower defensive team it seems to me you should be able get someone open, even if it's just the 2 or 3 running the baseline and trying to drop the defender in the scrum (or force a switch).

What bothers me the most is that it seems - with the starting five - you have Williams and Karno doing there thing and Perkins and Jordan just floating around out there. Jordan is picking it up a bit. But Josh just looks like he is just hanging out. :/

MDABE80
03-06-2017, 07:36 PM
Worst gme we've played outside of BYU at home. Wait the first half of th last game (Pacific) was the worst.
I just don't understand this collapse!

Zags11
03-06-2017, 07:40 PM
Worst gme we've played outside of BYU at home. Wait the first half of th last game Pacific) was the worst.
I just don't understand this collapse.

Invincibility shattered??

MontanaCoyote
03-06-2017, 07:43 PM
Worst gme we've played outside of BYU at home. Wait the first half of th last game Pacific) was the worst.
I just don't understand this collapse.

To go deep at The Dance, Perkins, Matthews and Melson must all play well, maybe not great, but well. NWG will get smothered if good teams smell blood in the water if no serious production from them.

ZagOD7540
03-06-2017, 07:59 PM
To go deep at The Dance, Perkins, Matthews and Melson must all play well, maybe not great, but well. NWG will get smothered if good teams smell blood in the water if no serious production from them.

You could see that in the second half. SC started running a double team at Nigel. We need to bury some shots to open up the lane. Pretty congested in there tonight. I'd sure like to see Williams get more isolation oppportunities. Also, its great to isolate Nigel down low-he works over those defenders. They don't have fighting chance

Tmac5360
03-06-2017, 08:01 PM
Abe, I think collapse might be a bit strong. They don't look great but I do think it is hard when the team you play each night is playing for their lives. At this point the Zags are not. I know we as fans want them to be perfect every night but they are surviving and advancing. Did you really feel at any point tonight they were going to lose? Even within 5 points I really didn't think it would happen. But what the hell do I know I thought they would beat BYU by 30.

FuManShoes
03-06-2017, 08:19 PM
Wow - for being 31-1 heading into yet another wcc tourney champ game I wish I was feeling more confident in the team. Maybe I'm spoiled. Or maybe i'm just preparing and protecting my psyche in case of an early round exit.

I'm bracing myself a bit. It's the lack of outside shooting, the rise in sloppy turnovers and the drop off in three point defense that's got me worried this team isn't ready to beat a sweet 16 caliber team unless they fix several issues fast. What happened to Perkins and Melson's confidence? You can see they both look down. At least Matthews is coming up with some energy plays that seem to to spark his shot.

ZagsGoZags
03-07-2017, 01:23 AM
I was going to look up the team's 3 pt percentage in the last 4 games, but didn't want to
see the facts, so I'm in a funk.
For attitude and confidence it is almost a different team.
Maybe our opponents are figuring us out more and more. if so
we will have to find adjustments.
in the NCAA tournament I think only the players themselves can
get on each other, and get their mojo back, kind of like seahawks sometimes do

montanazag88
03-07-2017, 03:17 AM
Worst gme we've played outside of BYU at home. Wait the first half of th last game Pacific) was the worst.
I just don't understand this collapse.

This and offensive rebounds. Anyone know how we are doing on the glass in the couple games against smaller lineups statistically? It has to be poor. And if perk and melson aren't hitting threes they should be crashing the glass relentlessly for high percentage put backs or at least possession.

Zagsker
03-07-2017, 06:19 AM
I think our struggling guards need to look to penetrate and get runners or to the line early...get early success up close, find your shot and then increase range as the game goes...NWG does this and has been consistent

drvenkman05
03-07-2017, 06:26 AM
This is a great point. Had we shot more 3s but didn't make them, these same posters would be asking (not unreasonably), "Why did we stop going inside?" Some of these things are zero-sum: if you score on a play on the inside, you didn't score with a 3. At some point it becomes: if we are making lots of baskets inside, why stop?


They were horrid from outside, we need either Melson or Perkins to step up - that's from the coaches, I believe, not some cheap shot on the board.

But, I do like the discipline and dedication to going inside when they're not hitting them.

I don't think that dribble backdown is going to work past the 2nd round. Teams will just get too good, and have the inside presence, or the quick enough double team to take that away. But, hopefully by then we'll have someone consistently shooting.

Of course, no one is expecting a team to go deep shooting like that. And we won't. But, I like the discipline to not keep shooting until the 3s started going down.

Zagsker
03-07-2017, 06:30 AM
They were horrid from outside, we need either Melson or Perkins to step up - that's from the coaches, I believe, not some cheap shot on the board..

Just curious...if a board member did say they were "horrid" and "need to step up"...would you consider that a "cheap shot?"

btzag
03-07-2017, 07:01 AM
In two tourney games Perkins has yet to score a single point and Melson has 6. If they continue to play like this we will likely lose tonight and definitely will not make it past a sweet 16, if even that far. What made this team truly great was having five weapons on the court for every minute of the game and the way they unselfishly shared the ball. The last couple games we are playing 3 or 4 on 5 on the offensive end and that simply does not make a great team, just a good one.

bballbeachbum
03-07-2017, 07:05 AM
This is a great point. Had we shot more 3s but didn't make them, these same posters would be asking (not unreasonably), "Why did we stop going inside?" Some of these things are zero-sum: if you score on a play on the inside, you didn't score with a 3. At some point it becomes: if we are making lots of baskets inside, why stop?

Zags shot 62% inside the arc, it was an even higher % most of the game, and they did what they've done all year which is go inside when the other team over commits defensively on the perimeter, which is what Sendek did, or vice versa. low possession game last night, like a tournament game

Zagceo
03-07-2017, 07:13 AM
Just curious...if a board member did say they were "horrid" and "need to step up"...would you consider that a "cheap shot?"

no.....just constructive criticism )

bballbeachbum
03-07-2017, 07:14 AM
no.....just constructive criticism )

or obscure ranting presented as such )

drvenkman05
03-07-2017, 07:15 AM
So you're saying they did what many have been calling for them to do: have a game plan, adapt, and keep doing what works? Seems reasonable to me.... :p


Zags shot 62% inside the arc, it was an even higher % most of the game, and they did what they've done all year which is go inside when the other team over commits defensively on the perimeter, which is what Sendek did, or vice versa. low possession game last night, like a tournament game

Zagceo
03-07-2017, 07:17 AM
or obscure ranting presented as such )

but from a coach......in a post game interview it's called? Honest critique?

bballbeachbum
03-07-2017, 07:24 AM
but from a coach......in a post game interview it's called? Honest critique?

obviously I'm not talking about the coach and I love honest critique Zagceo

willandi
03-07-2017, 07:36 AM
Which would Zag fans rather have. 55% from the floor, 48% from 3, 80% from the FT line, outrebound the opponent, fewer turnovers...and lose, or play like last night and win?

Yes it's a rhetorical question, but as long as the Zags win, I can live with the how!

Zagceo
03-07-2017, 07:39 AM
Which would Zag fans rather have. 55% from the floor, 48% from 3, 80% from the FT line, outrebound the opponent, fewer turnovers...and lose, or play like last night and win?

Yes it's a rhetorical question, but as long as the Zags win, I can live with the how!

until they don't...;)

willandi
03-07-2017, 07:42 AM
until they don't...;)

There was a game last week, I forget which teams, but they had shot 50% from 3 for the previous 2 games, and lost!

DixieZag
03-07-2017, 07:49 AM
Just curious...if a board member did say they were "horrid" and "need to step up"...would you consider that a "cheap shot?"

No, "they" was a reference to the entire team, and the "need to step up" reference to the coaches was just the reiteration that we're not going deep unless the backcourt does. And I'm one of the ones who thought the team played relatively well last night and the panic is a little silly.

I also said I thought it was pretty disciplined of all the guards to not overcompensate and continue to force it by launching 3s - that's certainly meant to be a compliment.

3zagda
03-07-2017, 08:58 AM
The other thing those guards were doing was chasing Brownridge around all night, that has to really wear you out. That has to their primary job against Santa Clara.

CDC84
03-07-2017, 09:11 AM
I hope this ankle thing with Perkins doesn't just keep lingering. He played less minutes than Melson last night, but that may have been partly to deal with Brownridge. Josh is the most consistent 3 point shooter GU has. The other guys tend to be streaky. The Zags really need Mathews to get hot for the next 7 games :)

Section 116
03-07-2017, 09:15 AM
Perkins and Melson talk to Jim Meehan about their performances last evening: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/mar/06/gonzaga-guards-silas-melson-josh-perkins-struggle-/

jake
03-07-2017, 09:16 AM
11-40 last 3 games on 3s. Whatever the 2-point % is, that's bad.

Last 3 games Melson and Perkins are 5-25 and have individual point totals of 2, 4, 2 (Melson) and 10, 0, 0 (Perkins).

I'm not implying the sky is falling by any means, and everyone hits ruts, but I think it is a reality that the production from those guys needs to be better (and I expect it will) if we're going to go deep in March.

Birddog
03-07-2017, 09:34 AM
The other thing those guards were doing was chasing Brownridge around all night, that has to really wear you out. That has to their primary job against Santa Clara.

Perkins got the hook real early last night, I believe after Brownridge drove the lane for an "and one"about 3 or 4 mins into the game. I was wondering if that was because of a missed assignment or just part of the strategy to keep a fresh body on him. The camera never really showed whether Few was giving him an earful.

gonstu
03-07-2017, 09:36 AM
Perkins got the hook real early last night, I believe after Brownridge drove the lane for an "and one"about 3 or 4 mins into the game. I was wondering if that was because of a missed assignment or just part of the strategy to keep a fresh body on him. The camera never really showed whether Few was giving him an earful.

I think that's been common for a while now. When he picks up first foul, that's when Melson comes in.

Mr Vulture
03-07-2017, 09:42 AM
Flip side argument would be that the reason they are called season averages is that they account for all the games. Therefore, it is likely that tonight may be one of the better nights for outside shooting to offset last night. There is WAY to much being put into one game, IMO.

MDABE80
03-07-2017, 10:03 AM
In two tourney games Perkins has yet to score a single point and Melson has 6. If they continue to play like this we will likely lose tonight and definitely will not make it past a sweet 16, if even that far. What made this team truly great was having five weapons on the court for every minute of the game and the way they unselfishly shared the ball. The last couple games we are playing 3 or 4 on 5 on the offensive end and that simply does not make a great team, just a good one.


This is a collapse! lol I think we win with the bigs tonight. SMC shoots well from 3. We used to. Their defense in points scored against them is better than ours right now. Few's going to have to draw something up because when Josh isn't interested and Silas has returned to "funkville", Nigel, Jordan and the bigs must carry us. It's a big late in the season to draw up a different plan.

Might be a big scrum tonight. SMC looks tough and has a championship on its mind. We're not looking like either. Somebody needs to either play hard or sit. Maybe the kids come alive tonight. Hope so!! It's always a problem when you win but play bad enough to lose.

maynard g krebs
03-07-2017, 10:10 AM
I think that's been common for a while now. When he picks up first foul, that's when Melson comes in.

Yup. Just managing the foul situation. Perkins' foul was at 17:50.

btzag
03-07-2017, 10:47 AM
This is a collapse! lol I think we win with the bigs tonight. SMC shoots well from 3. We used to. Their defense in points scored against them is better than ours right now. Few's going to have to draw something up because when Josh isn't interested and Silas has returned to "funkville", Nigel, Jordan and the bigs must carry us. It's a big late in the season to draw up a different plan.

Might be a big scrum tonight. SMC looks tough and has a championship on its mind. We're not looking like either. Somebody needs to either play hard or sit. Maybe the kids come alive tonight. Hope so!! It's always a problem when you win but play bad enough to lose.

Yeah I don't think it's a game plan thing, just confidence, energy and fight from those two. My viewpoint is more long term in that if the F4 is the goal the performance needs to be better. The attitude and fight from Nwg/Matthews compared to perkins/Melson was just shocking.

seacatfan
03-07-2017, 10:54 AM
Melson's season seems the opposite of last year. He's played well all year but is slumping down the stretch, as opposed to struggling all year until he turned it around at the end.

maynard g krebs
03-07-2017, 01:56 PM
Josh isn't interested

I try to avoid commenting on your slams for the most part, but that's just a shameful thing to say. If Josh wasn't interested, you wouldn't see him in tears and slamming things (per reports). He's become tentative and trying to avoid mistakes, in addition to being hurt. Doesn't help to say hateful things about GU's players who pour their hearts, souls, and bodies into this.

Birddog
03-07-2017, 02:27 PM
Melson's season seems the opposite of last year. He's played well all year but is slumping down the stretch, as opposed to struggling all year until he turned it around at the end.

Melson's stat line would have looked a lot better had he not been called for the travel on one shot and had the refs recognized a body slam as a foul on another.

titopoet
03-07-2017, 02:29 PM
Hopefully the balls well be properly inflated

"The teams combined to make their first three shots before Gonzaga's Josh Perkins brought the ball to the officials' attention.

Williams-Goss claimed they were playing with a smaller women's ball, but two conference officials said it was simply under-inflated.

There was a delay of over a minute before a new ball was produced."


Slumps are part of the game... get them over now before the march madness.

DixieZag
03-07-2017, 02:43 PM
I try to avoid commenting on your slams for the most part, but that's just a shameful thing to say. If Josh wasn't interested, you wouldn't see him in tears and slamming things (per reports). He's become tentative and trying to avoid mistakes, in addition to being hurt. Doesn't help to say hateful things about GU's players who pour their hearts, souls, and bodies into this.

Exactly. Pressing while coach says "let the game come to you" - next thing one knows, they're paralyzed. Starts with too much interest, blaming himself.

75Zag
03-07-2017, 03:22 PM
The fact that a player is playing below his season average is tough, but as they say in the commercials for stock brokers, past performance does not necessarily indicate future results. I always remember my math teacher in high school explaining that if you flip a coin 3000 times and every result is "heads", the odds of the next coin flip being heads or tails is still 50/50. I have confidence that the GU players who have struggled will return to their season averages soon and perhaps tonight. I do predict a tight game and as I said on another post, I had a dream last night of a double overtime squeaker which GU won by 2.

Go Bulldogs!