PDA

View Full Version : Mark Few better be using one four letter word after another



kclubfounder
03-04-2017, 07:08 PM
My title to this thread says it all. I'm pissed, and I don't get pissed very easily.

EEzag
03-04-2017, 07:11 PM
My title to this thread says it all. I'm pissed, and I don't get pissed very easily.

This is where big time coaches make the bigggest difference. Can Few drive this team back into the fast lane? We shall see

sittingon50
03-04-2017, 08:36 PM
Apparently.

JPtheBeasta
03-04-2017, 08:55 PM
The Zags shot 1-12 (or so) during one stretch in the first half. They looked out of sorts but if they had hit a few shots it would have been a respectable 8-10 point lead going into the half.

The refs let Pacific get away with some bush-league type stuff and I wish a Zag would step up and stand up for the team with a clean, hard foul. I think the Zags must have a reputation for being soft this year, because I don't remember so many teams undressing the Zags in a season before.

ProVeeZag
03-04-2017, 08:59 PM
That crappy 1st half did not surprise me ... I expected some hangover from the BYU loss...it was truly painful to watch. Slow reactions to loose balls, terrible shooting, low energy. I don't know that Few flipped any switch at halftime ... I attribute it more to Nigel taking charge and finding Matthews on a few 3 balls. Melson brought good energy, though didn't show in his stat line. I am starting to be concerned though about the god-awful sloppy passes from Karno lately. Zags better tighten down some screws soon.

CDC84
03-04-2017, 09:07 PM
Let's just hope they come out of the gate firing on all cylinders on Monday. If they don't, I think there is reason for concern.

MontanaCoyote
03-04-2017, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=JPtheBeasta;1294106]The Zags shot 1-12 (or so) during one stretch in the first half. They looked out of sorts but if they had hit a few shots it would have been a respectable 8-10 point lead going into the half.

The refs let Pacific get away with some bush-league type stuff and I wish a Zag would step up and stand up for the team with a clean, hard foul. I think the Zags must have a reputation for being soft this year, because I don't remember so many teams undressing the Zags in a season before.[/QUOTE

I could be dead wrong on this, but although I've never thought of the Zag's as being soft, I have thought that the quality of the kids we recruit results in players that, because of their class and character, are "just too nice." They just don't have it in themselves to do the kind of aggressive/questionable/dirty stuff we see other teams ( you know which ones) pull off.
I call it class, big time.

Can any poster recall the last time a Zag got called for a dirty/intentional foul. If ever, they are damn well few and far between.

I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say and that when I say "too nice" I don't mean that our guys play soft B Ball......just that they have high standards that simply preclude them from playing any thing but a clean game. You'll never see a Grayson Allen step on the floor for the Zag's. He's just not a Gonzaga kind of kid.

Hope you get my drift.

ProVeeZag
03-04-2017, 09:31 PM
[QUOTE=JPtheBeasta;1294106]The Zags shot 1-12 (or so) during one stretch in the first half. They looked out of sorts but if they had hit a few shots it would have been a respectable 8-10 point lead going into the half.

The refs let Pacific get away with some bush-league type stuff and I wish a Zag would step up and stand up for the team with a clean, hard foul. I think the Zags must have a reputation for being soft this year, because I don't remember so many teams undressing the Zags in a season before.[/QUOTE

I could be dead wrong on this, but although I've never thought of the Zag's as being soft, I have thought that the quality of the kids we recruit results in players that, because of their class and character, are "just too nice." They just don't have it in themselves to do the kind of aggressive/questionable/dirty stuff we see other teams ( you know which ones) pull off.
I call it class, big time.

Can any poster recall the last time a Zag got called for a dirty/intentional foul. If ever, they are damn well few and far between.

I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say and that when I say "too nice" I don't mean that our guys play soft B Ball......just that they have high standards that simply preclude them from playing any thing but a clean game. You'll never see a Grayson Allen step on the floor for the Zag's. He's just not a Gonzaga kind of kid.

Hope you get my drift.

I know what you mean, Coyote. I think you'd have to go back at least to Casey Calvary's days at GU...not that Casey was at all a "dirty" player; he wasn't. But he did know how to, shall we say, deliver a message.

Robzagnut
03-04-2017, 09:32 PM
I'm worried they peaked too soon. They play a first half like that in the tournament and they're gone.

JPtheBeasta
03-04-2017, 09:35 PM
[QUOTE=JPtheBeasta;1294106]The Zags shot 1-12 (or so) during one stretch in the first half. They looked out of sorts but if they had hit a few shots it would have been a respectable 8-10 point lead going into the half.

The refs let Pacific get away with some bush-league type stuff and I wish a Zag would step up and stand up for the team with a clean, hard foul. I think the Zags must have a reputation for being soft this year, because I don't remember so many teams undressing the Zags in a season before.[/QUOTE

I could be dead wrong on this, but although I've never thought of the Zag's as being soft, I have thought that the quality of the kids we recruit results in players that, because of their class and character, are "just too nice." They just don't have it in themselves to do the kind of aggressive/questionable/dirty stuff we see other teams ( you know which ones) pull off.
I call it class, big time.

Can any poster recall the last time a Zag got called for a dirty/intentional foul. If ever, they are damn well few and far between.

I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say and that when I say "too nice" I don't mean that our guys play soft B Ball......just that they have high standards that simply preclude them from playing any thing but a clean game. You'll never see a Grayson Allen step on the floor for the Zag's. He's just not a Gonzaga kind of kid.

Hope you get my drift.

I do. And what you are pointing out is part of what makes the team enjoyable to watch, which may make the following seem hypocritical...

I just would like to see in situations like when a guy winds up and hits Tillie in the head just about as hard as he can as he shoots the ball, that one of our guys would set a hard screen on him or foul him hard on the arm or something when the opportunity presents itself. The other team knows that they can't rip a guy to the ground (Mika on Karno) without any sort of repercussion. I would like the other team to be hearing footsteps after they elbow one of our players in the face, like Pacific did to Williams. When the refs are letting the extremely physical stuff happen, some (sportsmanlike) self-policing might be in order.

MontanaCoyote
03-04-2017, 09:35 PM
That crappy 1st half did not surprise me ... I expected some hangover from the BYU loss...it was truly painful to watch. Slow reactions to loose balls, terrible shooting, low energy. I don't know that Few flipped any switch at halftime ... I attribute it more to Nigel taking charge and finding Matthews on a few 3 balls. Melson brought good energy, though didn't show in his stat line. I am starting to be concerned though about the god-awful sloppy passes from Karno lately. Zags better tighten down some screws soon.

I hear you, but I remember an earlier game this year when everyone was going after Karno for a bad pass.......until it was found out that Few said it wasn't his fault but the fault of another player (s) who weren't where they were supposed to be.

At any rate, he'll be fine. "Rumor" has it that he saves his best for the big ones. Wouldn't bet against it.

ZagOD7540
03-04-2017, 09:37 PM
How was that head shot to Tillie not reviewed? What an absolute cheap shot. They reviewed a couple of incidental contact fouls, but not that one?? How in the world do 3 referees miss that? That kid made no attempt on the ball. Should have gotten tagged for a flagrant and ejected.

VinnyZag
03-04-2017, 09:39 PM
Pacific did this to GU three times this year. Slow it down, play physical, try to win a low possession game. I suspect Stoudamire is a good coach, though he may never get the chance to prove it at Pacific.

If GU looks sluggish against SCU, I'll be worried. But for now I think they're fine.

MontanaCoyote
03-04-2017, 09:40 PM
[QUOTE=MontanaCoyote;1294135]

I do. And what you are pointing out is part of what makes the team enjoyable to watch, which may make the following seem hypocritical...

I just would like to see in situations like when a guy winds up and hits Tillie in the head just about as hard as he can as he shoots the ball, that one of our guys would set a hard screen on him or foul him hard on the arm or something when the opportunity presents itself. The other team knows that they can't rip a guy to the ground (Mika on Karno) without any sort of repercussion. I would like the other team to be hearing footsteps after they elbow one of our players in the face, like Pacific did to Williams. When the refs are letting the extremely physical stuff happen, some (sportsmanlike) self-policing might be in order.


Got it and my gut tells me the same thing. But given what I've said, I just don't know if they can bring themselves to do it.
Should they? Yes! Can they???

hooter73
03-04-2017, 09:41 PM
Gonzaga sucks after any type of break. Every year, their first game of the week is atrocious and their saturday game is always good enough to make everyone forget how bad the first one was. After any time off at all, every year. They get through it though... until they play a good team. Hmmm answer to the march losses?

team6
03-04-2017, 10:14 PM
[QUOTE=JPtheBeasta;1294106]The Zags shot 1-12 (or so) during one stretch in the first half. They looked out of sorts but if they had hit a few shots it would have been a respectable 8-10 point lead going into the half.

The refs let Pacific get away with some bush-league type stuff and I wish a Zag would step up and stand up for the team with a clean, hard foul. I think the Zags must have a reputation for being soft this year, because I don't remember so many teams undressing the Zags in a season before.[/QUOTE

I could be dead wrong on this, but although I've never thought of the Zag's as being soft, I have thought that the quality of the kids we recruit results in players that, because of their class and character, are "just too nice." They just don't have it in themselves to do the kind of aggressive/questionable/dirty stuff we see other teams ( you know which ones) pull off.
I call it class, big time.

Can any poster recall the last time a Zag got called for a dirty/intentional foul. If ever, they are damn well few and far between.

I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say and that when I say "too nice" I don't mean that our guys play soft B Ball......just that they have high standards that simply preclude them from playing any thing but a clean game. You'll never see a Grayson Allen step on the floor for the Zag's. He's just not a Gonzaga kind of kid.

Hope you get my drift.

Elias Harris got kicked out of a game, I think it was Washington state (can't remember though) but he went after there big man as a shot just went up and elbowed him straight in the neck. It was a big deal and everyone was wondering if Few and GU would suspend him from more games or even if the NCAA would. It was pretty bad, can't remember every detail I just remember thinking "I can't believe Elias just did that"

JPtheBeasta
03-04-2017, 10:24 PM
Elias Harris got kicked out of a game, I think it was Washington state (can't remember though) but he went after there big man as a shot just went up and elbowed him straight in the neck. It was a big deal and everyone was wondering if Few and GU would suspend him from more games or even if the NCAA would. It was pretty bad, can't remember every detail I just remember thinking "I can't believe Elias just did that"

Wake Forest?

I think E said he turned to put an arm into the guy's chest on a block out. It looked really bad, though

ZagaZags
03-04-2017, 10:31 PM
Wake Forest?

I think E said he turned to put an arm into the guy's chest on a block out. It looked really bad, though

Yep, it was Wake Forest in Spokane.

zag buddy
03-04-2017, 11:45 PM
It seems to me that we are not effectively getting the ball inside. That's creating Hugh problems for the guys.

ZagaZags
03-05-2017, 12:18 AM
It seems to me that we are not effectively getting the ball inside. That's creating Hugh problems for the guys.

Agreed 100%. This was the problem last week as well. GU needs to feed the ball inside as much as possible. Resistance is futile.

http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/tng_s5_10.jpg

ProVeeZag
03-05-2017, 04:35 AM
Wake Forest?

I think E said he turned to put an arm into the guy's chest on a block out. It looked really bad, though

Thanks, great recall! Elias could play with a little chip at times.

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-05-2017, 05:01 AM
Gonzaga sucks after any type of break. Every year, their first game of the week is atrocious and their saturday game is always good enough to make everyone forget how bad the first one was. After any time off at all, every year. They get through it though... until they play a good team. Hmmm answer to the march losses?

Really? If that were true wouldn't they have lost a first round NCAA game sometime during the past 10+ seasons or so? Have Zags ever lost a 1st round game?

SunDevilGolfZag
03-05-2017, 05:16 AM
Yep, it was Wake Forest in Spokane.

Wake Forest guy totally flopped

DixieZag
03-05-2017, 05:17 AM
We always play terrible in the first game in Vegas. I had hoped, however, that this team would be too disciplined and good to allow a let down to creep into it.

In some ways it's understandable, they continue, over and over, play games they can't win - only lose. They end of winning by 32 and the nation (and us) say "they were up 2 at half."

jazzdelmar
03-05-2017, 05:41 AM
Thanks, great recall! Elias could play with a little chip at times.

EH did nothing ..the kid was an habitual flopper...cost us the game and maybe seeding down the road.

bartruff1
03-05-2017, 05:47 AM
I don't think Mark knows any four letter words....not his style...

I seldom criticize a player, I assume they are doing what they are told to do, to the best of their ability. I criticized Elias for that foul only to find out that WF intended to get him out of the game....I had to apologize for my remarks...lesson learned.

He is one of my all time favorites and has very impressive career stats..

Birddog
03-05-2017, 06:23 AM
EH did nothing ..the kid was an habitual flopper...cost us the game and maybe seeding down the road.

That kid who's name escapes me made a habit of baiting and flopping. He was a very chippy player with a long history, non WF ACC fans hated that guy.

LMUZAG
03-05-2017, 06:54 AM
That kid who's name escapes me made a habit of baiting and flopping. He was a very chippy player with a long history, non WF ACC fans hated that guy.

Chas McFarland. That guy was a piece of work.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

hooter73
03-05-2017, 06:57 AM
Really? If that were true wouldn't they have lost a first round NCAA game sometime during the past 10+ seasons or so? Have Zags ever lost a 1st round game?

its not that we lose, its that we play like, well like we played against Pacific just last night.

team6
03-05-2017, 07:19 AM
EH did nothing ..the kid was an habitual flopper...cost us the game and maybe seeding down the road.

Yeah not saying that the kid didn't flop or anything like that, but still EH elbow had no reason to be anywhere near the players neck. Again loved EH and I don't think he was a dirty player but he played very physical.

bballbeachbum
03-05-2017, 09:14 AM
It seems to me that we are not effectively getting the ball inside. That's creating Hugh problems for the guys.

agreed. seems defenses are also trying harder to take it away, not just daring Zag bigs to do it 1v1 over and over

TravelinZag
03-05-2017, 09:23 AM
[QUOTE=JPtheBeasta;1294106]The Zags shot 1-12 (or so) during one stretch in the first half. They looked out of sorts but if they had hit a few shots it would have been a respectable 8-10 point lead going into the half.

The refs let Pacific get away with some bush-league type stuff and I wish a Zag would step up and stand up for the team with a clean, hard foul. I think the Zags must have a reputation for being soft this year, because I don't remember so many teams undressing the Zags in a season before.[/QUOTE

I could be dead wrong on this, but although I've never thought of the Zag's as being soft, I have thought that the quality of the kids we recruit results in players that, because of their class and character, are "just too nice." They just don't have it in themselves to do the kind of aggressive/questionable/dirty stuff we see other teams ( you know which ones) pull off.
I call it class, big time.

Can any poster recall the last time a Zag got called for a dirty/intentional foul. If ever, they are damn well few and far between.

I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say and that when I say "too nice" I don't mean that our guys play soft B Ball......just that they have high standards that simply preclude them from playing any thing but a clean game. You'll never see a Grayson Allen step on the flthey oor for the Zag's. He's just not a Gonzaga kind of kid.

Hope you get my drift.

Hate to agree, but do. Zags do not play with thuggery, but need to demonstrate that
they won't tolerate it either! Plenty of reserves are capable of entering the game immediately as an enforcer and deliver a clear, brutal message. If the cost is a technical foul, so be it.

Ezag
03-05-2017, 09:37 AM
3 really, really crappy halves out of the last 4. Not a great sign. At least the best one was the last one.

Hoopaholic
03-05-2017, 09:39 AM
3 really, really crappy halves out of the last 4. Not a great sign. At least the best one was the last one.

Disagree. Byu first half and up to 12 minute mark where we up 12 points was solid basketball....the last 12 minutes were not

ScrapironJim
03-05-2017, 09:50 AM
Allow me to comment as a former college athlete. I was fortunate to have played in an organization with the same classy, ethical standards that Gonzaga has.
With the possible exception of St. Mary's, no WCC team believes it can beat the Zags in a fairly played game of basketball. Our top eight players have basketball and athletic skills which are clearly superior to all of those teams. The only hope they have is to level the field by dirty play, i.e. holding, pushing, shoving, etc. Players like BYU's Kafusi serve only one purpose, to intimidate the opponent. He can affect Karno's performance by cheating. He has five fouls which give him the potential to influence Karno's play 15 to 20 times, depending upon the ref’s tendency to call fouls. Now, most refs do not want to be part of a game with 50 to 60 fouls - there are exceptions. My experience has been that most refs will not call the dirty play if it is one sided. They want to be invisible. However, when both teams are playing dirty, the refs must intervene or the game will get out of control and possibly result in violence. Most refs will start calling the fouls until the play cleans up. So, my experience - even in high school - has been that coaches tell players to play clean, but to respond to dirty play when the refs don't protect the integrity of the game. I believe the Zags can ramp up their aggressiveness when appropriate. Let me clarify that there is a distinct difference between dirty play and aggressive play. The Zags - UConn women are the best example - endeavor to the play the game without fouling. When confronted by aggressive or dirty play it may be necessary to do little holding, shoving, pushing which is a bit over the line but only as a defensive response to the other teams play. Let the other team determine how the game will be played. Keep in mind that all refs have their own view of foul play. Sometimes you get a ref who won’t call anything. That is when the standard of “the refs determine what is a foul and so play according” comes into play. Let me close by saying that I would not be a BYU fan even if I were a graduate of the school. They are clearly coached to cheat – I counted six flops (cheating) in our last game with them. They have no ethics and their football team has the same reputation. I will always enjoy Zag basketball – win or lose – due to their high standards of sportsmanship.
One more thing . . . some of you need to back off with the criticism. The players are listening. Ask yourself one thing . . . are you helping or hurting the performance of the team with your criticism. The players should listen to their parents and their coaches for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. The rest of us should adhere to the axiom that ‘if you have nothing positive to say, then say nothing’. Sorry, but I feel strongly about this issue and I am sick of the extreme negativism. It is destructive . . . period!!!!!!

TravelinZag
03-05-2017, 11:33 AM
Allow me to comment as a former college athlete. I was fortunate to have played in an organization with the same classy, ethical standards that Gonzaga has.
With the possible exception of St. Mary's, no WCC team believes it can beat the Zags in a fairly played game of basketball. Our top eight players have basketball and athletic skills which are clearly superior to all of those teams. The only hope they have is to level the field by dirty play, i.e. holding, pushing, shoving, etc. Players like BYU's Kafusi serve only one purpose, to intimidate the opponent. He can affect Karno's performance by cheating. He has five fouls which give him the potential to influence Karno's play 15 to 20 times, depending upon the ref’s tendency to call fouls. Now, most refs do not want to be part of a game with 50 to 60 fouls - there are exceptions. My experience has been that most refs will not call the dirty play if it is one sided. They want to be invisible. However, when both teams are playing dirty, the refs must intervene or the game will get out of control and possibly result in violence. Most refs will start calling the fouls until the play cleans up. So, my experience - even in high school - has been that coaches tell players to play clean, but to respond to dirty play when the refs don't protect the integrity of the game. I believe the Zags can ramp up their aggressiveness when appropriate. Let me clarify that there is a distinct difference between dirty play and aggressive play. The Zags - UConn women are the best example - endeavor to the play the game without fouling. When confrontedg by aggressive or dirty play it may be necessary to do little holding, shoving, pushing which is a bit over the line but only as a defensive response to the other teams play. Let the other team determine how the game will be played. Keep in mind that all refs have their own view of foul play. Sometimes you get a ref who won’t call anything. That is when the standard of “the refs determine what is a foul and so play according” comes into play. Let me close by saying that I would not be a BYU fan even if I were a graduate of the school. They are clearly coached to cheat – I counted six flops (cheating) in our last game with them. They have no ethics and their football team has the same reputation. I will always enjoy Zag basketball – win or lose – due to their high standards of sportsmanship.
One more thing . . . some of you need to back off with the criticism. The players are listening. Ask yourself one thing . . . are you helping or hurting the performance of the team with your criticism. The players should listen to their parents and their coaches for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. The rest of us should adhere to the axiom that ‘if you have nothing positive to say, then say nothing’. Sorry, but I feel strongly about this issue and I am sick of the extreme negativism. It is destructive . . . period!!!!!!

Thanks for your input. It appeals to what I want to be, and hopefully am most of the time. But the Kafusis of the world, as you stated, play " . . only to intimidate the opponent." They unfortunately respond to only a disproportionate in-kind response, which takes patience to administer while disguising intent. The NFLers of old dealt with this type by ending their careers. In a single basketball game, a timely response can't wait that long, but doesn't need to. A provocation that results in a retaliation and disqualification will do. Add a smile as they depart the arena to derisive crowd chants of "goodbye."

I find much to respect in Coach Rose, and believe he is a man of character, so his tolerance of thuggery confounds me.

maynard g krebs
03-05-2017, 11:43 AM
One more thing . . . some of you need to back off with the criticism. The players are listening. Ask yourself one thing . . . are you helping or hurting the performance of the team with your criticism. The players should listen to their parents and their coaches for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. The rest of us should adhere to the axiom that ‘if you have nothing positive to say, then say nothing’. Sorry, but I feel strongly about this issue and I am sick of the extreme negativism. It is destructive . . . period!!!!!!

Thanks for saying that. I do think that critical analysis is ok as long as it's objective and doesn't fall into the whining/bashing category, but that's far too often the case. Families/friends and former coaches do read this board and take things said here personally. And they appreciate positive, supportive comments. That's from personal feedback I've received.

DixieZag
03-05-2017, 11:47 AM
I find much to respect in Coach Rose, and believe he is a man of character, so his tolerance of thuggery confounds me.

I used to feel the same way, but I just can't any longer. He stands there and sees it game after game and isn't benching anyone (maybe ordering it) and I just can't make excuses for him anymore.

I really want to avenge our loss to BYU - let them get their hope up that they can make the tournament with one real hot game and beat them by 30. But, I don't want our team going through the needless risk of injury/suspension (if one retaliates too emotionally).

I could see them beating SMC, but I hope they don't.

demian
03-05-2017, 01:10 PM
Really? If that were true wouldn't they have lost a first round NCAA game sometime during the past 10+ seasons or so? Have Zags ever lost a 1st round game?

Off top of my head the 1st round losses that come to mind are Wyoming (one of the most miserable games to watch lol) and Davidson (steph curry had 40 I think, Steven gray had a brilliant game for us that day also).

ScrapironJim
03-05-2017, 01:38 PM
I find much to respect in Coach Rose, and believe he is a man of character, so his tolerance of thuggery confounds me.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. When there are 1 or 2 flops, the coach is tolerating it, which is not good. When there are 6 flops, the coach is teaching and directing it, which is much worse. Coach Rose is an unethical coach. He played 9 players against us on seniors night. He was not trying to win at basketball, he was coaching to play dirty and spread the fouls around.
Also, what does it say about the school when their sports programs cheat. Gonzaga sports program are a testament to their school leadership. Something to think about.

Zagsker
03-05-2017, 02:10 PM
I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say and that when I say "too nice" I don't mean that our guys play soft B Ball......just that they have high standards that simply preclude them from playing any thing but a clean game. You'll never see a Grayson Allen step on the floor for the Zag's. He's just not a Gonzaga kind of kid.

Hope you get my drift.

Ugh....I get what you are trying to say but the boldeD makes me want to roll my eyes. There seems to be this social elitism that has steadily permeated through some GU fans take on Gonzaga bball...

Not saying that's what you were trying to imply...it's just lately some posters speak of GU with their nose in the air

And I am not saying players that play hard and not dirty is a bad thing, far from it....but we have had players that have done dirty things on the floor, not Grayson Allen dirty, but a lot of schools can say that.

kclubfounder
03-05-2017, 03:20 PM
Off top of my head the 1st round losses that come to mind are Wyoming (one of the most miserable games to watch lol) and Davidson (steph curry had 40 I think, Steven gray had a brilliant game for us that day also).

Both of those games were SO painful and were HOSE JOBS by the committee. Granted, I'm a Zag apologist when necessary, but both of those Zag teams were very good and did not deserve the game one challenges that they were thrown. One was played in Davidson's backyard on the opposite side of the country at 9:00 AM Spokane time against a team that had STEPH FLIPPING CURRY and would become the darling of the tournament, and the other was played in one of Wyoming's conference gyms (New Mexico). The altitude may have been overstated, but playing in a gym that represents your conference is a hell of an advantage.

Anyway, those were the 2 1st round "flame outs" and they were both assisted greatly by the committee in my humble opinion.

cggonzaga
03-05-2017, 04:10 PM
I don't think Mark knows any four letter words....not his style...

I seldom criticize a player, I assume they are doing what they are told to do, to the best of their ability. I criticized Elias for that foul only to find out that WF intended to get him out of the game....I had to apologize for my remarks...lesson learned.

He is one of my all time favorites and has very impressive career stats..

Agreed. Few leaves that to Tommy.

JPtheBeasta
03-05-2017, 04:25 PM
Ugh....I get what you are trying to say but the boldeD makes me want to roll my eyes. There seems to be this social elitism that has steadily permeated through some GU fans take on Gonzaga bball...

Not saying that's what you were trying to imply...it's just lately some posters speak of GU with their nose in the air

And I am not saying players that play hard and not dirty is a bad thing, far from it....but we have had players that have done dirty things on the floor, not Grayson Allen dirty, but a lot of schools can say that.

Just an fyi, but the quote script went astray somewhere and I actually didn't say those specific things.

Zagsker
03-05-2017, 05:20 PM
Just an fyi, but the quote script went astray somewhere and I actually didn't say those specific things.

Gotchya...

BBzag
03-05-2017, 06:23 PM
Off top of my head the 1st round losses that come to mind are Wyoming (one of the most miserable games to watch lol) and Davidson (steph curry had 40 I think, Steven gray had a brilliant game for us that day also).

Also Indiana in 2007 (year before Davidson), though they were a higher seed (7-10 game).

demian
03-05-2017, 06:25 PM
Both of those games were SO painful and were HOSE JOBS by the committee. Granted, I'm a Zag apologist when necessary, but both of those Zag teams were very good and did not deserve the game one challenges that they were thrown. One was played in Davidson's backyard on the opposite side of the country at 9:00 AM Spokane time against a team that had STEPH FLIPPING CURRY and would become the darling of the tournament, and the other was played in one of Wyoming's conference gyms (New Mexico). The altitude may have been overstated, but playing in a gym that represents your conference is a hell of an advantage.

Anyway, those were the 2 1st round "flame outs" and they were both assisted greatly by the committee in my humble opinion.


Kclubfounder gosh I do remember those two games being bad venues for GU. Wyoming to there credit played great tho and so did Davidson (Davidson advanced to elite 8). On this subject of 1st round losses I think it's incredible that in 17 straight trips to the NCAA tourney we have only lost twice in first round.

BBzag
03-05-2017, 06:29 PM
Kclubfounder gosh I do remember those two games being bad venues for GU. Wyoming to there credit played great tho and so did Davidson (Davidson advanced to elite 8). On this subject of 1st round losses I think it's incredible that in 17 straight trips to the NCAA tourney we have only lost twice in first round.

Three first-round losses in 18 straight trips, counting Indiana in 2007.

CDC84
03-05-2017, 06:35 PM
and the other was played in one of Wyoming's conference gyms (New Mexico). The altitude may have been overstated, but playing in a gym that represents your conference is a hell of an advantage.

Gonzaga also had no business being a 6 seed in that tournament. GU deserved a 3 or at worst a 4. It's still one of the worst misseedings the committee has handed up in the past 20 years of college basketball. There are more than a few analysts that would back me on this. Also, in that game, Gonzaga had the once in a 100 type game where the entire team couldn't hit a pea in the ocean. The open shots were there, but nobody could hit anything. I think that was a team that allowed its anger towards the committee to get the best of them. It was a lesson learned, and one that won't be repeated. But the outrage from that misseeding did have an impact. Although they have been messed over a few times by the committee (see Davidson), they have for the most part been properly seeded since that Wyoming hose job. I also think that Gonzaga's complaints about the misseeding was the first sign that BCS snobs were going to start turning on the program. They didn't like it when GU rightfully complained.

kclubfounder
03-05-2017, 07:36 PM
Gonzaga also had no business being a 6 seed in that tournament. GU deserved a 3 or at worst a 4. It's still one of the worst misseedings the committee has handed up in the past 20 years of college basketball. There are more than a few analysts that would back me on this. Also, in that game, Gonzaga had the once in a 100 type game where the entire team couldn't hit a pea in the ocean. The open shots were there, but nobody could hit anything. I think that was a team that allowed its anger towards the committee to get the best of them. It was a lesson learned, and one that won't be repeated. But the outrage from that misseeding did have an impact. Although they have been messed over a few times by the committee (see Davidson), they have for the most part been properly seeded since that Wyoming hose job. I also think that Gonzaga's complaints about the misseeding was the first sign that BCS snobs were going to start turning on the program. They didn't like it when GU rightfully complained.

:cheers:

Zags11
03-05-2017, 07:58 PM
Gonzaga also had no business being a 6 seed in that tournament. GU deserved a 3 or at worst a 4. It's still one of the worst misseedings the committee has handed up in the past 20 years of college basketball. There are more than a few analysts that would back me on this. Also, in that game, Gonzaga had the once in a 100 type game where the entire team couldn't hit a pea in the ocean. The open shots were there, but nobody could hit anything. I think that was a team that allowed its anger towards the committee to get the best of them. It was a lesson learned, and one that won't be repeated. But the outrage from that misseeding did have an impact. Although they have been messed over a few times by the committee (see Davidson), they have for the most part been properly seeded since that Wyoming hose job. I also think that Gonzaga's complaints about the misseeding was the first sign that BCS snobs were going to start turning on the program. They didn't like it when GU rightfully complained.

Oh that dickau led team got hosed. I was sitting there with my family thinking a 2-4 seed. Instead we get a 6 seed vs Wyoming in a location I believe they played in. (Scrimmages or practices!??) I'm sorry I can't recall.

This year we win out we will get a 1 seed.

GoZags
03-05-2017, 09:00 PM
Oh that dickau led team got hosed. I was sitting there with my family thinking a 2-4 seed. Instead we get a 6 seed vs Wyoming in a location I believe they played in. (Scrimmages or practices!??) I'm sorry I can't recall.

This year we win out we will get a 1 seed.

11 seed Wyoming was the outright regular season Champion of the #7 conference in the nation (MWC). And only one school has won more games in "The Pit" than Wyoming ..... the University of New Mexico. Although the Zags were ranked 6 their RPI was mid 20's ... so a 6 seed wasn't totally out of line.

hondo
03-05-2017, 09:11 PM
In the Pit altitude is a definite factor. Wyoming is the only D1 school who's home court is at a higher elevation than the Pit. So a real advantage in that aspect.

ProVeeZag
03-05-2017, 09:40 PM
In the Pit altitude is a definite factor. Wyoming is the only D1 school who's home court is at a higher elevation than the Pit. So a real advantage in that aspect.

Albuquerque sits at 6120 ft elevation while Laramie is at 7165 ft. Agree this can be a definite disadvantage to visiting teams...For an 11 seed (WYO) to be sent to play in Albuquerque was a gift wrapped with a bow.

maynard g krebs
03-05-2017, 11:34 PM
Albuquerque is, sadly, my one live NCAA tourney game to date. I played a pickup game at the ymca there the day before the game and my legs were aching and I was gasping w/in 10 minutes, and I'd been playing regularly. Team was gassed the last 10 minutes imo. Not a lot of depth on that team.

Also the locals were unanimously rooting for their conference mates.

Then again, getting Minnesota and Stanford in Seattle as a 10 seed got this whole thing started. Stanford as a 2 couldn't have been too happy about that.

Birddog
03-06-2017, 03:29 AM
Also, in that game, Gonzaga had the once in a 100 type game where the entire team couldn't hit a pea in the ocean. The open shots were there, but nobody could hit anything.

That would be a tough chore. I think you mean throw a pea in the ocean. Repeated gaffes like this could eventually reflect poorly on your reputation for accuracy, knowledge of the game and Gonzaga BB in general.
:D

Birddog
03-06-2017, 03:41 AM
Albuquerque sits at 6120 ft elevation while Laramie is at 7165 ft. Agree this can be a definite disadvantage to visiting teams...For an 11 seed (WYO) to be sent to play in Albuquerque was a gift wrapped with a bow.

Albq is 5312' ; one could argue that makes for an even better advantage. When I lived full time in NM we always said Albq was a "mile high city" ala Denver.

TexasZagFan
03-06-2017, 06:00 AM
Albq is 5312' ; one could argue that makes for an even better advantage. When I lived full time in NM we always said Albq was a "mile high city" ala Denver.

Good reason to try and get UNM, UTEP, NMSU, or other schools at high altitudes for OOC games.

raise the zag
03-06-2017, 06:27 AM
Bait! Lure! Pole! Line! Cast! Bite! Fish!

rennis
03-06-2017, 06:30 AM
Then again, getting Minnesota and Stanford in Seattle as a 10 seed got this whole thing started. Stanford as a 2 couldn't have been too happy about that.

Agreed with this but still think the #6 seed hose job was worse. Stanford got to play in it's time zone and realistically the # of true Zags fans in Key wasn't overwhelming. But the crowd definitely turned on Stanford in the game! Still one of the best days of my life.

Zags11
03-06-2017, 06:34 AM
11 seed Wyoming was the outright regular season Champion of the #7 conference in the nation (MWC). And only one school has won more games in "The Pit" than Wyoming ..... the University of New Mexico. Although the Zags were ranked 6 their RPI was mid 20's ... so a 6 seed wasn't totally out of line.

Yea I guess your right. I just felt like with that record and good RPI it'd been better then a 5 or 6 seed. It was a sad end for that team. Well, its sad every year. I usually rehash the game for awhile after the season ends.

willandi
03-06-2017, 06:37 AM
I couldn't find a vid link, but I DO remember that, after one of our Bigs getting brutalized by the other team, David Stockton (yes, the diminutive one that many dismiss), set a screen, on the pressured in-bounds pass, on the big that was guilty. He lined into a two arm bar, braced himself, and the big went down hard. No foul called, probably because while it was a hard shot, it was absolutely within the rules.

I would like to see the players stick up for each other like that...just a little more!

jazzdelmar
03-06-2017, 07:07 AM
Albuquerque is, sadly, my one live NCAA tourney game to date. I played a pickup game at the ymca there the day before the game and my legs were aching and I was gasping w/in 10 minutes, and I'd been playing regularly. Team was gassed the last 10 minutes imo. Not a lot of depth on that team.

Also the locals were unanimously rooting for their conference mates.

Then again, getting Minnesota and Stanford in Seattle as a 10 seed got this whole thing started. Stanford as a 2 couldn't have been too happy about that.

And if Clem the Gem were an honest man.........?

demian
03-06-2017, 11:26 AM
Also Indiana in 2007 (year before Davidson), though they were a higher seed (7-10 game).


ok good correction by you. Gosh I have to admit I literally do not remember one single thing about this Indiana loss that you speak of from 2007. I don't even remember who the guys on our team were. Who were some of our key players if you don't mind refreshing me. I don't remember anything about that Indiana team. Was that perhaps Kelvin Sampson or Mike Davis still coaching IU it couldn't have been Creen yet. Was that like the Eric Gordon era?? or Perhaps DJ white. Or was it AJ Guyton??

maynard g krebs
03-06-2017, 11:58 AM
Agreed with this but still think the #6 seed hose job was worse.

No argument there. Worst day of my 50+ years of watching basketball.

BBzag
03-06-2017, 02:19 PM
Gosh I have to admit I literally do not remember one single thing about this Indiana loss that you speak of from 2007. I don't even remember who the guys on our team were. Who were some of our key players if you don't mind refreshing me. I don't remember anything about that Indiana team. Was that perhaps Kelvin Sampson or Mike Davis still coaching IU it couldn't have been Creen yet. Was that like the Eric Gordon era?? or Perhaps DJ white. Or was it AJ Guyton??

Sampson's first year with the Hoosiers, White and Roderick Wilmont were their leading scorers. That was the Heytvelt mushroom year for the Zags, Raivio/Pargo/Bouldin were the backcourt with Mallon/Pendergraft/Kuso up front (Downs debuted midseason).

Here's the box score: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2007-03-15-gonzaga.html

demian
03-06-2017, 03:26 PM
Sampson's first year with the Hoosiers, White and Roderick Wilmont were their leading scorers. That was the Heytvelt mushroom year for the Zags, Raivio/Pargo/Bouldin were the backcourt with Mallon/Pendergraft/Kuso up front (Downs debuted midseason).

Here's the box score: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2007-03-15-gonzaga.html

Thanks a lot for the info. That helped a lot. Gosh that was a weird season. No wonder we lost in the first round of tourney. That was the same season Samhan flipped off our coaching staff at a timeout. Thanks for attaching that box score. That box score showed we had some very good players on that team. That was the team I think that was not going to win the conference title in regular season If I remember correctly and something miraculously happened the last couple of days of conference play correct, like didn't SMC and one other team ahead of us lose to some surprising teams in the last week of conference to leave the door open for us and we captured the league title. Sad that Mallon and Ravio went out in first round to end there careers. Those guys were key cogs in helping to take this thing to another level.