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ArchaeaBYU
02-28-2017, 04:54 PM
Good Luck Zags, unless you are playing BYU in the conference finals. I waited until a bit of time has elapsed because, although I don't know what it's like to see my team ranked number 1, I do know what it feels like to watch the team lose games I expect them to win. It's never fun.

I enjoy Mark Few as a coach and enjoy watching his well-coached teams. He has built quite a program, and I openly root for the Zags when they are not playing BYU. I note, with some degree of amusement how some posters complain about your fabulous coach not doing something on the rare occasions when Gonzaga loses. There must be an internet message board template of complaints for every fan of every team. BYU has not been as successful as Gonzaga in basketball, but Coach Rose has done well considering the recruiting limitations the Honor Code imposes and the continuous interruption of player development due to missions. After every loss, people ask if the game hasn't passed him by. Perhaps it has, but we fans are not the ones to know.

A couple of points.

1. WCC officials are generally inconsistent.

2. I don't believe any team in the WCC is thuggish. I attribute thuggish play to the old John Thompson teams that fouled on almost every play, making play ugly and offense infrequent. Although we can disagree with a particular call, it would be much tougher being an official than sitting in the stands or at home with a television replay to make a call.

3. Your fanbase is fantastic, and enjoyable. Of course, my interaction with most fanbases is positive.

4. There are few holes in Gonzaga. You have great post play, and great guards/small forward; NGW should be player of the year. I suppose you could use a swift, agile wing player, but most teams are lacking your post play.

I trust the Zags do well in the Tourney, whereas BYU unfortunately dwells in the nether-lands of the NIT. There are many disgruntled fans over silly, inexplicable losses to teams, where have you heard this before, from programs with less history and resources. One win does not a season make, but it does take a bit of the sting out, but I would have traded that win for a good seed in the Tourney any day. Hopefully, SMC can play well also.

MDABE80
02-28-2017, 06:21 PM
Thank you and welcome!

tummydoc
02-28-2017, 10:22 PM
Thanks. Rose 's decision to slow the pace at 6 minutes looks downright genius from this side of the game. Mika had a nice game but those Haws brothers have been bigger thorns in our sides the last few years.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

ArchaeaBYU
03-01-2017, 10:39 AM
Thanks. Rose 's decision to slow the pace at 6 minutes looks downright genius from this side of the game. Mika had a nice game but those Haws brothers have been bigger thorns in our sides the last few years.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

TJ has a long ways to go though as he makes a lot of poor decisions. As a Coug fan, one finds one thinking, "no, no, oh great it went in," or "gads, why did he do that?"

I like Mika's game too, and given he has just returned from a mission, I am impressed as most returned missionaries take a long time to get back into shape. If he can continue to hit the midrange shot, he will be valuable.

I laughed when the announcers stated he needed to add the three point shot. Why? First he needs a 15 footer before he's rotating out for the three point line, and second he needs to be quicker on the kick out when he's double teamed before he adds the three point shot.

Goshzagit
03-01-2017, 11:38 AM
Good post. Thanks for the well wishes.

I hope, more than anything, we meet in the Finals next week..

Many will prefer St Marys, due to higher RPI, BPI, Pom, ranking, Seeding, etc...and all that confusing hoopla the committee barely uses outside bubble teams anyway.

I wish the Gaels well, but the more enticing and exciting game is Cougs vs Zags.

Season redemption vs season revenge. Props to BYU for putting forth a spectacular performance and effort, especially Bryant (defense), & Mika's dominance was a sight to behold.

I guarantee Silas Melson wont be tripping over his feet on defense, NWG wont miss those layups, Karno will stay hungry, & Zach will make his FT's. Also, Karno wont let the guards get too cute, esp Mathews inexplicable dribbling & Perkind lack of poise in crunch time.

I just don't think BYU can beat SMC (St Marys wont miss 15 FT's), but I hope they do this time around.

I want to see the Zags vs BYU. Zags focused this time around.

Also, we statistically played better on the road this season than Kennel, save SMC game. An odd trend but sign of a well oiled team.

I firmly believe BYU is better than their record/standing, esp with Bryant playing. He has been your MVP as of late. Along with Haws shooting prowess. Haws single handidly kept the game being a 20 pt lead.

Our defense, even extended on him was atrocious, esp Melson, but it was Bryants size & strength from guard position that hurt us on offense and defense. Mika was Mika...and may or may not make 4 jump shots beyond 18 ft again.

I will be a BYU fan come Monday. I know the players want the Cougs too, or so im told.

Good luck to BYU as well.

ArchaeaBYU
03-01-2017, 12:16 PM
Good post. Thanks for the well wishes.

I hope, more than anything, we meet in the Finals next week..

Many will prefer St Marys, due to higher RPI, BPI, Pom, ranking, Seeding, etc...and all that confusing hoopla the committee barely uses outside bubble teams anyway.

I wish the Gaels well, but the more enticing and exciting game is Cougs vs Zags.

Season redemption vs season revenge. Props to BYU for putting forth a spectacular performance and effort, especially Bryant (defense), & Mika's dominance was a sight to behold.

I guarantee Silas Melson wont be tripping over his feet on defense, NWG wont miss those layups, Karno will stay hungry, & Zach will make his FT's. Also, Karno wont let the guards get too cute, esp Mathews inexplicable dribbling & Perkind lack of poise in crunch time.

I just don't think BYU can beat SMC (St Marys wont miss 15 FT's), but I hope they do this time around.

I want to see the Zags vs BYU. Zags focused this time around.

Also, we statistically played better on the road this season than Kennel, save SMC game. An odd trend but sign of a well oiled team.

I firmly believe BYU is better than their record/standing, esp with Bryant playing. He has been your MVP as of late. Along with Haws shooting prowess. Haws single handidly kept the game being a 20 pt lead.

Our defense, even extended on him was atrocious, esp Melson, but it was Bryants size & strength from guard position that hurt us on offense and defense. Mika was Mika...and may or may not make 4 jump shots beyond 18 ft again.

I will be a BYU fan come Monday. I know the players want the Cougs too, or so im told.

Good luck to BYU as well.

Thanks.

I can't disagree with your post, and agree for BYU to defeat SMC it will be a tall feat, as SMC is so disciplined. I don't expect BYU to defeat SMC, but there's always hope.

If BYU gets by SMC and LMU, then the Zags will be focused. Even though I would favor the Zags, I welcome the challenge. I also agree Bryant has been the secret sauce to allow the Cougs to improve. He was injured early on, and then sat out for a while. Since his return from injury he has provided size, strength and some speed. The team is young and makes the mistakes we see from young players, but when it plays well, it is a fun team to watch. Enjoy this season, as I expect the Zags to go to the Final Four and after than, anything can happen. Few is a fantastic coach, in recruiting, structuring his team and in motivating the team to victory. As far as X's and O's, he and all the other college coaches are so far beyond me, it is unfair for me to critique.

Goshzagit
03-01-2017, 12:48 PM
Thanks.

I can't disagree with your post, and agree for BYU to defeat SMC it will be a tall feat, as SMC is so disciplined. I don't expect BYU to defeat SMC, but there's always hope.

If BYU gets by SMC and LMU, then the Zags will be focused. Even though I would favor the Zags, I welcome the challenge. I also agree Bryant has been the secret sauce to allow the Cougs to improve. He was injured early on, and then sat out for a while. Since his return from injury he has provided size, strength and some speed. The team is young and makes the mistakes we see from young players, but when it plays well, it is a fun team to watch. Enjoy this season, as I expect the Zags to go to the Final Four and after than, anything can happen. Few is a fantastic coach, in recruiting, structuring his team and in motivating the team to victory. As far as X's and O's, he and all the other college coaches are so far beyond me, it is unfair for me to critique.


BYU is playing great at the right time.

Sometimes emotional/big wins can help...or hurt a team. Usually the former...

If BYU can get Landale in foul trouble, very possible they can advance.

When Zags got Jock in foul trouble, GU won by 25...

BYU MUST play defense as they did in Spokane as SMC guards DONT make mistakes as our guards did last wk.

I want BYU to win, as I know they will be hungry, even hungrier on Tuesday.

ZionZag
03-01-2017, 01:13 PM
Quite a love fest guys......Just kidding. Thanks Arch for your comments. I should forward your information about your secret love affair with the Zags to a very successful Utah County business man I know that is a die hard Coug fan but also a closet Zag lover.....I didn't know there were TWO of you down there!!!

ArchaeaBYU
03-01-2017, 01:32 PM
Quite a love fest guys......Just kidding. Thanks Arch for your comments. I should forward your information about your secret love affair with the Zags to a very successful Utah County business man I know that is a die hard Coug fan but also a closet Zag lover.....I didn't know there were TWO of you down there!!!

I am not in Utah. My affinities and allegiances are quite diverse, but you will find a large amount of respect from BYU fans. Gonzaga built a program in a relatively remote region against substantial odds, and did it cleanly and according to the rules. Being a giant killer again and again is also part of your Cinderella story. One of my few Ironman races put me in Zag territory when I landed in Spokane. Beautiful area. I am a fan of the pageantry of college sports, fans loving their teams, loving to "hate" their rivals and just enjoying great times.

Hoopsfan23
03-02-2017, 07:13 AM
BYU has not been as successful as Gonzaga in basketball, but Coach Rose has done well considering the recruiting limitations the Honor Code imposes and the continuous interruption of player development due to missions. After every loss, people ask if the game hasn't passed him by. Perhaps it has, but we fans are not the ones to know.

Really not intending to sound negative, more so curious. Is managing to accommodate missionís truly a disadvantage? Watching BYU since entering the WCC, it seems like the timing of mission's can be customized to the player, which can aid in development, even if the development is purely maturity. For example, Emery comes to BYU undersized, goes on his 2 year mission immediately, and starts his basketball career as a 21 year old freshman. Mika, on the other hand, they may not have been sure about immediately, he plays as a freshman, goes on a mission for 2 years and comes back looking like Ivan Drago from Rocky IV (big fan of Mika's game, by the way). To me, it seems like it gives the coach more tools to be able to manage a roster and recruit if you strategically plan the timing of a mission per each student athlete.

If the mission timing is pre-determined and does not involve the coaching staff, please ignore the rest of my blabber above :)

Good luck to both teams in Vegas, really hope to see this matchup in the championship!

ArchaeaBYU
03-06-2017, 07:36 AM
Really not intending to sound negative, more so curious. Is managing to accommodate mission’s truly a disadvantage? Watching BYU since entering the WCC, it seems like the timing of mission's can be customized to the player, which can aid in development, even if the development is purely maturity. For example, Emery comes to BYU undersized, goes on his 2 year mission immediately, and starts his basketball career as a 21 year old freshman. Mika, on the other hand, they may not have been sure about immediately, he plays as a freshman, goes on a mission for 2 years and comes back looking like Ivan Drago from Rocky IV (big fan of Mika's game, by the way). To me, it seems like it gives the coach more tools to be able to manage a roster and recruit if you strategically plan the timing of a mission per each student athlete.

If the mission timing is pre-determined and does not involve the coaching staff, please ignore the rest of my blabber above :)

Good luck to both teams in Vegas, really hope to see this matchup in the championship!

Missions are individually by the player themselves, and may or may not involve discussions with the coaching staffs.

Emery did not serve a full mission because he came home early due to severe health complications. It is a hindrance because the coaches don't get to provide very much input, and losing that competitive edge for two years is horrific. I don't know if you ever competed at the high collegiate level but it takes a good two years to regain one's physical conditioning. Thus, Haws drags often. BYU would be better if there weren't missions.

GoZags
03-06-2017, 08:01 AM
BYU would be better if there weren't missions.

Don't know enough to make a definitive statement ... but it sure seems to me mature, married 24 year olds have an very distinct advantage in college sports (even the rare unmarried ones). I guess we'll see how "out of shape" or "unconditioned" Jesse Wade is when he shows up for summer school .... or .... participates in his first "official" practice in October.

sittingon50
03-06-2017, 09:27 AM
Missions are individually by the player themselves, and may or may not involve discussions with the coaching staffs.

Emery did not serve a full mission because he came home early due to severe health complications. It is a hindrance because the coaches don't get to provide very much input, and losing that competitive edge for two years is horrific. I don't know if you ever competed at the high collegiate level but it takes a good two years to regain one's physical conditioning. Thus, Haws drags often. BYU would be better if there weren't missions.

2 years for a 20-21 year old to regain their conditioning? Sorry; don't think so.

ArchaeaBYU
03-06-2017, 10:12 AM
2 years for a 20-21 year old to regain their conditioning? Sorry; don't think so.

Here is my observation. To have the high level conditioning a player needs, plus to retain skills such as touch, it takes a full season and another off-season to regain the type of top notch fitness. My experience is in endurance training for athletes. The first year, you are really building a base and the second or third year, you have the ability to really build high end fitness. Yes, younger athletes recover more quickly but to move from nothing to collegiate class fitness is another matter. A basketball season doesn't improve fitness but beats a person up, so that first summer is barely getting a lad ready, and the second summer season is where the true fitness returns.

It's like training a runner for a marathon. The first marathon gets the legs under the runner, but the second, third or fourth is where the runner finds his or her fitness. That takes more than one season.

ArchaeaBYU
03-06-2017, 10:15 AM
Don't know enough to make a definitive statement ... but it sure seems to me mature, married 24 year olds have an very distinct advantage in college sports (even the rare unmarried ones). I guess we'll see how "out of shape" or "unconditioned" Jesse Wade is when he shows up for summer school .... or .... participates in his first "official" practice in October.

You will see flashes, but you will also see periods where the player fades, or lacks the stamina to play defense hard full time. With a player such as Wade who appears to be slotted for a back up role with GU, you might not notice it as much. BYU started Haws and there was a period where Haws was obviously huffing and puffing. Moreover, Haws rarely gives his all on defense. Hopefully this is due to fitness and not due to a lack of commitment to defending.

GoZags
03-06-2017, 10:37 AM
You will see flashes, but you will also see periods where the player fades, or lacks the stamina to play defense hard full time. With a player such as Wade who appears to be slotted for a back up role with GU, you might not notice it as much. BYU started Haws and there was a period where Haws was obviously huffing and puffing. Moreover, Haws rarely gives his all on defense. Hopefully this is due to fitness and not due to a lack of commitment to defending.

So .... out of EVERY BYU football or basketball player that has gone on a mission, you give one example of one guy who huffs and puffs a bit?

I simply do not buy what you are attempting to sell.

ArchaeaBYU
03-06-2017, 12:08 PM
So .... out of EVERY BYU football or basketball player that has gone on a mission, you give one example of one guy who huffs and puffs a bit?

I simply do not buy what you are attempting to sell.

I can only think of one player who did not look winded and that was TJ's brother. They all look winded and out of shape. Example, Tanner Mangum came back in 2015 and looked faded in his inaugural season.

Even Mika is not as fit as he will be next year. Payton Dastrup is the back up who can barely complete two trips down the court without needing a breather. Dastrup was a recruit BYU beat out Ohio State for. The challenge wasn't to list every player that struggles, as in my observation they all struggle, except Tyler's brother. Every single one.

I won't convince you, but you haven't watched 30 plus years of seeing missionaries labor during their first year. If I could control BYU sports, I would forbid them from going on missions, as it is detrimental overall to the performance of the teams. The aging up is more than off set by the decrease in motivation and the lack of fitness. Missions may be important to the sponsor, but not to the performance of the teams. I cannot think of a single LDS athlete in any sport, football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track, rugby, volleyball, or golf where I was glad as a fan that a player served a mission. The lack of continuity is devastating to the team, and it takes a full season until the next season for them to recover. Missions, not a good thing for sports.

GoZags
03-06-2017, 12:21 PM
I can only think of one player who did not look winded and that was TJ's brother. They all look winded and out of shape. Example, Tanner Mangum came back in 2015 and looked faded in his inaugural season.

Even Mika is not as fit as he will be next year. Payton Dastrup is the back up who can barely complete two trips down the court without needing a breather. Dastrup was a recruit BYU beat out Ohio State for. The challenge wasn't to list every player that struggles, as in my observation they all struggle, except Tyler's brother. Every single one.

I won't convince you, but you haven't watched 30 plus years of seeing missionaries labor during their first year. If I could control BYU sports, I would forbid them from going on missions, as it is detrimental overall to the performance of the teams. The aging up is more than off set by the decrease in motivation and the lack of fitness. Missions may be important to the sponsor, but not to the performance of the teams. I cannot think of a single LDS athlete in any sport, football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track, rugby, volleyball, or golf where I was glad as a fan that a player served a mission. The lack of continuity is devastating to the team, and it takes a full season until the next season for them to recover. Missions, not a good thing for sports.


Missions, not a good thing for sports.

24 and 25 year old men .... not a good thing for college sports. But ... it is what it is. I understand and respect your viewpoint ... just don't agree with it.