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Zags11
02-26-2017, 05:40 AM
29-1 and not 30-0, I get it. I was and still am bummed out like every zag fan and player are. I get it. I was there at the game and saw how bad fans and players took it. I get it. I watched a zag player being consoled in tears. He felt like we all did. I get it.


As the sting still lingers, what a amazing year. 29-1. 29 and freaking 1. We will be a 1 seed, and we have much more business to take.

Few meltdowns. I get it. Perkins mishandles. I get it.


Zag love. I get it. The love and hate on our board community. I really get it.

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 07:12 AM
No one argues that 29-1 is really impressive and a fantastic year ...the problem is that the team folded under the pressure at HISTORY.. the only pressure we had was to complete a perfect season, something only few teams have done.. and we folded and imploded..

That's a bad sign.. but if you really think about it .. it makes perfect sense .. every year Fews team fold under pressure when the going gets tough, somehow we always find a way to collapse

Just like against Cuse last year .. it starts at the top.. Few better figure out how handle these situations Bc if not, the same thing is about to happen again in a few short weeks

Honestly, after 17 seasons, it's pretty clear this will always be the thorn in Mark Few and his teams .. he hasn't figured it out yet, the likely hood that he does all of a sudden realize he's gotta do something different when the pressure is on, is not gonna happen

Rose knew it too.. he knew if he could get this team in a close game late they would FOLD .. Bc that's what Mark Few does

gonzagafan62
02-26-2017, 07:15 AM
"The team folded"

Oh my gosh. Are you that blind???? Maybe BYU got all the bounces, all the calls, and everything to go their way last night. That stuff happens!!!!!!! Get over yourself

Zag11. You're right. Too many people overreacting. It's embarrassing!

Go zags!

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 07:18 AM
"The team folded"

Oh my gosh. Are you that blind???? Maybe BYU got all the bounces, all the calls, and everything to go their way last night. That stuff happens!!!!!!! Get over yourself

Zag11. You're right. Too many people overreacting. It's embarrassing!

Go zags!
Yeah whatever makes you feel better for losing to an UNRANKED team at home with a chance to make history ..

A team that has no business beating us, no where near the talent either

But like I said .. evidently I'm not just making #### up.. go read the BYU coaches quotes.. is he full of shut too?

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 07:23 AM
It's so obvious Few was ####ting the bed.. he literally let BYU sit and dribble at half court and run the shot clock down to 10 every possession the last5 minutes just EATING CLOCK .. and Few did absolutely nothing .. even after 2 timeouts he made not one single adjustment

It's clear as day he had the deer in headlights going on and the team followed

All he had to do was have NWG or Perkins force a count by going up and guarding

Instead we sat back and let them do exactly what Rose wanted.. it's absolutely incredible to be honest

zagcheer78
02-26-2017, 07:28 AM
True, even the announcers last night kept quoting Rose saying that they wanted to get their team ahead by a few points and watch what we would do.
He had us pegged.

vandalzag
02-26-2017, 07:29 AM
It's so obvious Few was ####ting the bed.. he literally let BYU sit and dribble at half court and run the shot clock down to 10 every possession the last5 minutes just EATING CLOCK .. and Few did absolutely nothing .. even after 2 timeouts he made not one single adjustment

It's clear as day he had the deer in headlights going on and the team followed

All he had to do was have NWG or Perkins force a count by going up and guarding

Instead we sat back and let them do exactly what Rose wanted.. it's absolutely incredible to be honest

What count are they supposed to force?

Alum08
02-26-2017, 07:33 AM
What count are they supposed to force?

I assume 5 seconds.

FuManShoes
02-26-2017, 07:33 AM
Yes, happens every year except when they need to win the WCC tourney to make the dance, or when they win nearly every opening round game in the dance regardless of seed, or when Meech needs to drive the length of the floor in 3 seconds to escape. Or the 8.2 times of of 10 when the Zags win. Yep. Zags fold every time. With fans like you who needs foes ...

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 07:34 AM
I assume 5 seconds.

Exactly

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 07:38 AM
Yes, happens every year except when they need to win the WCC tourney to make the dance, or when they win nearly every opening round game in the dance regardless of seed, or when Meech needs to drive the length of the floor in 3 seconds to escape. Or the 8.2 times of of 10 when the Zags win. Yep. Zags fold every time. With fans like you who needs friends ...

Cmon seriously .. winning the WCC championship or 1st round game is not what we are talking about


You can hang your head on that if you want, but that's exactly why no one respects us.. our fanbase praises making the NCAA tournament .. meanwhile every other program that's been in the Tourny 17 straight years celebrate Final Fours and CHAMPIONSHIPS

So yeah , I'm clearly referring to real pressure moment to MAKE HISTORY.. Perfect Seasons and FF appearances

I don't settle for mediocrity .. which unfortunely a lot of our fan base does

gonstu
02-26-2017, 07:55 AM
Cmon seriously .. winning the WCC championship or 1st round game is not what we are talking about


You can hang your head on that if you want, but that's exactly why no one respects us.. our fanbase praises making the NCAA tournament .. meanwhile every other program that's been in the Tourny 17 straight years celebrate Final Fours and CHAMPIONSHIPS

So yeah , I'm clearly referring to real pressure moment to MAKE HISTORY.. Perfect Seasons and FF appearances

I don't settle for mediocrity .. which unfortunely a lot of our fan base does

Either you need to use a different word to describe zag basketball or you and I have a very different understanding of the word "mediocre."

GoZags
02-26-2017, 08:02 AM
Cmon seriously .. winning the WCC championship or 1st round game is not what we are talking about


You can hang your head on that if you want, but that's exactly why no one respects us.. our fanbase praises making the NCAA tournament .. meanwhile every other program that's been in the Tourny 17 straight years celebrate Final Fours and CHAMPIONSHIPS

So yeah , I'm clearly referring to real pressure moment to MAKE HISTORY.. Perfect Seasons and FF appearances

I don't settle for mediocrity .. which unfortunely a lot of our fan base does

1. The Zags have been to the dance 18 straight years. Not sure why you are selling them short.
2. Other teams HAVE had tourney streaks as long (or longer) than Gonzaga's
3. Those "other" teams you reference ... the ones that have celebrated Final Fours and CHAMPIONSHIPS ... didn't have an average seed of 7.6 (average seed of Gonzaga).
4. Last night's loss WAS disappointing ... but there are a handful (or two) of wins left to enjoy this season.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 08:05 AM
Exactly

Then you need to go read the rules as you clearly don't understand the rules

There is no 5 second count of the offensive player is dribbling the ball

Zagceo
02-26-2017, 08:07 AM
Then you need to go read the rules as you clearly don't understand the rules

There is no 5 second count of the offensive player is dribbling the ball

Thats my understanding also......but why are the refs still counting?

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-26-2017, 08:15 AM
Thats my understanding also......but why are the refs still counting?

Apparently, the closely guarded rule was recently changed so that a dribbling player cannot be called for a five second violation. That wasn't always true. It was rarely enforced when it was on the books.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 08:16 AM
It's so obvious Few was ####ting the bed.. he literally let BYU sit and dribble at half court and run the shot clock down to 10 every possession the last5 minutes just EATING CLOCK .. and Few did absolutely nothing .. even after 2 timeouts he made not one single adjustment

It's clear as day he had the deer in headlights going on and the team followed

All he had to do was have NWG or Perkins force a count by going up and guarding

Instead we sat back and let them do exactly what Rose wanted.. it's absolutely incredible to be honest

You are aware the defensive tactic forced byu into 4 missed 3 point tough shots and a missed jumper during the last 4 minutes. They went 3-8 during that stretch so statistically seemed to work on the defensive end

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 08:18 AM
Thats my understanding also......but why are the refs still counting?

They count if you are holding ball and closely guarded. Once you start a dribble there is no count

2nd year this rule been in place

DixieZag
02-26-2017, 08:19 AM
Just small point of order, and though I am damn proud of the 18-0 and don't think that's "mediocre" - Unlike many of those "other teams" that have gone that many times, only on a very few occasions have we had the type of players that can legitimately compete for a final four. We also have a tendency to run up against teams that go on to win it all - which doesn't help.


I am one who agrees that Few tightens up some at the end of close games and it flows down to players. But, the level of vitriol is almost funny given all else, and the "choke" thing sure doesn't ring true to me, since just last year we had to win 2 games in a row against BYU and SMC to get to the tourney, then won two there before even being in a situation to lose to Syracuse - a team known for its trapping defense.

Also (yes, too wordy), does the fact that we continued to cut runs off at BYU (within 5) and SMC (similar) later in the second half not count as "not choking"?

We lost b/c we shot 3.4% and a few other reasons, far ahead of "choke."

zagsfanforlife
02-26-2017, 08:20 AM
Cmon seriously .. winning the WCC championship or 1st round game is not what we are talking about


You can hang your head on that if you want, but that's exactly why no one respects us.. our fanbase praises making the NCAA tournament .. meanwhile every other program that's been in the Tourny 17 straight years celebrate Final Fours and CHAMPIONSHIPS

So yeah , I'm clearly referring to real pressure moment to MAKE HISTORY.. Perfect Seasons and FF appearances

I don't settle for mediocrity .. which unfortunely a lot of our fan base does

I like you. You call a spade a spade just like you see it. Maybe it's because I'm not a Spokanian(?) but being a fan since 1999, I am proud of the sweet 16's and the elite 8'sbut I am looking for the next steps. This is the team that has the best chance to reach a final four and championship. Unless either of those happens in a year where college basketball as a whole has the most parity I can ever remember, I will be dissspointed. Call me a hater, a pessimist whatever. But I am not the kind of guy that would be happy that my kid rode the pine and got a trophy at the end of the year for participating. It's time we stop looking at our team as the sweet little underdog team from little Spokane Washington. The national media doesn't view us like this, the team has higher expectations so why don't we? Until we reach a final four, every non zag fan looks at us as underachievers-- the team with the hype but not the results. The narrative is no longer our tournament streak, but the lack of final fours. No one cares that we can dominate Lmu, St marys, usf, pacific-- hell they might as well all be "the little sisters of the poor" for all other people care. Regardless of the schedule, we had a chance to make history last night. No one remembers 29-1-- they do remember 30-0. A spade is a spade. We did fold under pressure. Learn From it and let's hope we can make history by making a final four NC this season. Anything less can be celebrated sure-- it's been a successful season. Here is our participation trophy for making the big dance again. I want something bigger and shinier.

vandalzag
02-26-2017, 08:24 AM
[QUOTE=Hoopaholic;1291883]They count if you are holding ball and closely guarded. Once you start a dribble there is no count

That is on Few. He should have changed the rule and then had them play tight defense.

DADoZAG
02-26-2017, 08:25 AM
Yesterday I made a couple of mistakes.

I realize I made those mistakes because I'm honest with myself, at least I try to be.

The mistakes I made yesterday don't in anyway degrade what I did right yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that. The opposite is also true in that what I've done right in the past doesn't negate my mistakes of yesterday.

I just need to take responsibility for my mistakes, learn and move on, be stronger, be prepared, and as always.... #ZAGUP

Go ZAGS!

Zagceo
02-26-2017, 08:26 AM
They count if you are holding ball and closely guarded. Once you start a dribble there is no count

2nd year this rule been in place

old rule was advance ball not just dribble?

Outraged
02-26-2017, 08:30 AM
It's so obvious Few was ####ting the bed.. he literally let BYU sit and dribble at half court and run the shot clock down to 10 every possession the last5 minutes just EATING CLOCK .. and Few did absolutely nothing .. even after 2 timeouts he made not one single adjustment

It's clear as day he had the deer in headlights going on and the team followed

All he had to do was have NWG or Perkins force a count by going up and guarding

Instead we sat back and let them do exactly what Rose wanted.. it's absolutely incredible to be honest

yes this is true. It reminded me of the Duke game.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 08:46 AM
old rule was advance ball not just dribble?

Yes you had 5 seconds holding ball 5 seconds dribbling. 5 seconds holding ball

Dribbling you must make a move towards hoop and break the plane of defender for the count to stop, restarts once defender got back into legal guarding position

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 08:53 AM
[QUOTE=DixieZag;1291884]Just small point of order, and though I am damn proud of the 18-0 and don't think that's "mediocre" - Unlike many of those "other teams" that have gone that many times, only on a very few occasions have we had the type of players that can legitimately compete for a final four. We also have a tendency to run up against teams that go on to win it all - which doesn't help.

Worst 3 point shooting for game since UCLA 2 years ago

Lost the game between 12:13 mark and 8:40 mark...Shem had 2 calls one of which was flat out wrong in 30 seconds so he was straddled with fouls during this 4 minute part of game
Silas misses a 3. Goss misses two open jumpers. Collins misses dunk. Perkins misses 3 point shot and Collins misses 2 free throws. While emery hits 2 three ball and Mika hits jumper suddenly down 1 and momentum lost and the only time this year we could not stop a run

DixieZag
02-26-2017, 08:57 AM
[QUOTE=DixieZag;1291884]Just small point of order, and though I am damn proud of the 18-0 and don't think that's "mediocre" - Unlike many of those "other teams" that have gone that many times, only on a very few occasions have we had the type of players that can legitimately compete for a final four. We also have a tendency to run up against teams that go on to win it all - which doesn't help.

Worst 3 point shooting for game since UCLA 2 years ago

Lost the game between 12:13 mark and 8:40 mark...Shem had 2 calls one of which was flat out wrong in 30 seconds so he was straddled with fouls during this 4 minute part of game
Silas misses a 3. Goss misses two open jumpers. Collins misses dunk. Perkins misses 3 point shot and Collins misses 2 free throws. While emery hits 2 three ball and Mika hits jumper suddenly down 1 and momentum lost and the only time this year we could not stop a run

Not sure why you're responding to me. In each post about the game and the reason for losing, the first thing I've posted was "Couldn't hit a shot all game"

That and the soon-to-be-shamed-into-reparations SR publishing the "30-0" story yesterday morning is explanation enough for me.

(I didn't read the SR's reasoning or whatever as to why they did that or why it happened b/c I'm not interested. Unless it involved saving someone's life by agreeing to do it, it's inexcusable. :)

FuManShoes
02-26-2017, 09:37 AM
Maybe it's quibbling, but I think it's safe to say the Zags choked last night but do not have an endemic choking problem. Of course there have been too many* of these games over the years where it seemed the team tightened up but the Zags don't get to be one of the winningest programs in the country if that's their standard MO. I think we tend to be self selective and remember the chokes while ignoring the games where they staved off a comeback or more frequently this year, were dialed in from start to finish. So the Zags choke ... unless they don't. And as disappointed as we fans are at the perfect season lost in a flurry of mistakes, you can only imagine the players and coaches are infinitely more pissed off. The next couple weeks will show their resolve. I just don't agree with those who discount or diminish all the program has done because of a handful of poorly executed finishes over the years. I challenge you to find any program that hasn't suffered those. That's sports.

*Is it really too many chokes or just that we remember them because they came on a big stage and stand in contrast to all the wins and relatively few blowout losses?

MDABE80
02-26-2017, 09:38 AM
Is the "failure to advance the ball" rule gone now? When BYU just sat dribbling for what seemed like an eternity, I wondered.

EEzag
02-26-2017, 10:36 AM
Is the "failure to advance the ball" rule gone now? When BYU just sat dribbling for what seemed like an eternity, I wondered.

We were gassed. Not sure why but we were. Those open jumpers were a result of us playing off cuz we couldn't stop the drive. The coaching staff needed to go zone or something because mika was killing us at the elbow.

Nobody gameplans for BYU. Everybody gameplans for us. Now there is some dirt and chinks in the armor. Few isn't great at endofgame scenarios but he is great at making adjustments between halves and between games. Truth is, as I got older and coached older ages of kids ink and through high school, its less about strategy as kids get older and more about egos and emotion.

A couple of observations about the game. Way too many people left before the seniors addressed the crowd. Sad. People yelling at Perkins? Pathetic. I feel sorry for their kids. You know who doesn't handle the pressure of the big games? Us.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 10:47 AM
BYU outscored Zags by 24 after that opening spurt. Chew on that.

MDABE80
02-26-2017, 10:59 AM
We were gassed. Not sure why but we were. Those open jumpers were a result of us playing off cuz we couldn't stop the drive. The coaching staff needed to go zone or something because mika was killing us at the elbow.

Nobody gameplans for BYU. Everybody gameplans for us. Now there is some dirt and chinks in the armor. Few isn't great at endofgame scenarios but he is great at making adjustments between halves and between games. Truth is, as I got older and coached older ages of kids ink and through high school, its less about strategy as kids get older and more about egos and emotion.

A couple of observations about the game. Way too many people left before the seniors addressed the crowd. Sad. People yelling at Perkins? Pathetic. I feel sorry for their kids. You know who doesn't handle the pressure of the big games? Us.
Fine. Is "failure to advance" O longer a rule? Otherwise we're back to four corners and "keep away "

Zags11
02-26-2017, 11:17 AM
We were gassed. Not sure why but we were. Those open jumpers were a result of us playing off cuz we couldn't stop the drive. The coaching staff needed to go zone or something because mika was killing us at the elbow.

Nobody gameplans for BYU. Everybody gameplans for us. Now there is some dirt and chinks in the armor. Few isn't great at endofgame scenarios but he is great at making adjustments between halves and between games. Truth is, as I got older and coached older ages of kids ink and through high school, its less about strategy as kids get older and more about egos and emotion.

A couple of observations about the game. Way too many people left before the seniors addressed the crowd. Sad. People yelling at Perkins? Pathetic. I feel sorry for their kids. You know who doesn't handle the pressure of the big games? Us.


Preach!

Zags11
02-26-2017, 11:17 AM
I want BYU. I want to see zags punish them.

katman50
02-26-2017, 11:32 AM
I want BYU. I want to see zags punish them.

Be careful what you wish for. On any given night BYU can be a very good team. Mika is a great player. And when they are hitting their threes, they can beat a lot of good teams.

ProVeeZag
02-26-2017, 12:16 PM
Fine. Is "failure to advance" O longer a rule? Otherwise we're back to four corners and "keep away "

Well, it's back to four corners and "keep away" within the 30-second shot clock limitation. I notice the "hash marks" still exist on the floor, which used to be the point the ball had to be advanced when closely guarded. Are the "hash marks" still relevant, and if so, how?

adoptedzag
02-26-2017, 12:25 PM
While I disagree with the rhetoric of mediocrity, the point is that BYU went away from their scouting report and we didn't know how to adjust. You could see on Nigel's face that all of his basketball instincts were telling him to go pressure haws to get them uncomfortable with what they were doing instead of being reactive to it. He didn't because he's a good soldier, and it potentially cost us the game.

fedwayzag
02-26-2017, 04:07 PM
great point adoptedzag. We let them do what they wanted and did not make it uncomfortable for them.

gonzagafan62
02-26-2017, 04:27 PM
Be careful what you wish for. On any given night BYU can be a very good team. Mika is a great player. And when they are hitting their threes, they can beat a lot of good teams.

Please. They had 15 lucky shots ALL go in, and then they got all the calls, AND all the bounces went their way. THEN we still had a chance to win at the end. I don't care what anyone says. We get them again they are toast like 2015

BYU better hope someone knocks us off if they plan to get to finals

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 04:36 PM
Squarely with you 62

Virginia Zags Fan
02-26-2017, 04:48 PM
Am I sad they lost? Can't tell you how much the loss hurt. As much as we want to lash out to cope, I think it is much more instructive to watch. We will see the true character of this team next weekend. That's when we will see if they are truly champions. Coaches included.

Virginia Zags Fan
02-26-2017, 05:05 PM
Oh yeah. Also wanted to comment on being gassed. The team had been on the road, Sr. Night, 30-0, Number 1, etc. All that is a lot of pressure! No matter how much you say you are just going to focus on the next game, it easier said than done. That pressure wears you out emotionally and then physically. It just does. Saw it with Nova, too, in their losses.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

willandi
02-26-2017, 07:01 PM
A point on the challenging of the player dribbling (mostly Haws last night).

If you keep spacing, you can react when he makes his move. If you close tight, you have to guess right or he is past you and has the advantage, or you foul him and he gets FT's.

Playing back gives you a chance with a fast player. Guarding tight gives him 2 out of 3 chances for something good to happen.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 08:18 PM
Be careful what you wish for. On any given night BYU can be a very good team. Mika is a great player. And when they are hitting their threes, they can beat a lot of good teams.

I want to see zags how they respond to BYU.

ProVeeZag
02-26-2017, 09:20 PM
Oh yeah. Also wanted to comment on being gassed. The team had been on the road, Sr. Night, 30-0, Number 1, etc. All that is a lot of pressure! No matter how much you say you are just going to focus on the next game, it easier said than done. That pressure wears you out emotionally and then physically. It just does. Saw it with Nova, too, in their losses.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I like your analysis of why we looked "gassed". We all saw a Zags team that blew out to a quick 16 point lead fueled by a lot of emotion on Senior night at home against an archrival. The thing about running high on emotion is it can drain you quickly. BYU is not a great team overall, but they are capable of getting hot offensively, and when they did last night, Zags started playing on fumes. Tank was on "E" that last 10 minutes. The Zags play best when they methodically work their game plan and inexorably grind down their opponent. That has led to a number of huge 2nd half blowouts much of this conference season. Busting out to that quick 16 pt lead was "fool's gold". Looks good to the fans and on tv, but it's not the formula that got us to 29-0. Coaches need to get back to playing thru our strengths.

Reborn
02-27-2017, 06:06 AM
What you don't really get is that losing that game was NOT choking. IF you believe that you only show how much you really DON'T KNOW. For those of you who have done that, you have insulted the team and ZagNation. For almost every great team, including most who have made it to the Final Four, have lost at least one bad loss, and some who lose even more than that. And there's a reason that the committee throws out the one bad loss. If the loss Saturday convinces you that this is not a great team with special players, imo nothing will.

The loss Saturday, I am now convinced, is going to help the Zags play better, and go further, than if they had remained undefeated. I've said it many times before, so those of you who know me won't be surprised, sometimes losing a game can be a good thing. And it certainly was last year. After losing to St Mary's at home last year, the team really came together in a special way. Believe the same thing this year. We are Zags!

Go Zags!!!

gonzagafan62
02-27-2017, 06:10 AM
What you don't really get is that losing that game was NOT choking. IF you believe that you only show how much you really DON'T KNOW. For those of you who have done that, you have insulted the team and ZagNation. For almost every great team, including most who have made it to the Final Four, have lost at least one bad loss, and some who lose even more than that. And there's a reason that the committee throws out the one bad loss. If the loss Saturday convinces you that this is not a great team with special players, imo nothing will.

The loss Saturday, I am now convinced, is going to help the Zags play better, and go further, than if they had remained undefeated. I've said it many times before, so those of you who know me won't be surprised, sometimes losing a game can be a good thing. And it certainly was last year. After losing to St Mary's at home last year, the team really came together in a special way. Believe the same thing this year. We are Zags!

Go Zags!!!

Truth