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View Full Version : Mark Few's Perkins Problem



jazzdelmar
02-25-2017, 08:40 PM
What can he do about it?

Ekrub
02-25-2017, 08:42 PM
Pull him every time he tries to cross a guy over.

willandi
02-25-2017, 08:42 PM
What can he do about it?

Get rid of the GU board commentators!

webspinnre
02-25-2017, 08:43 PM
Make it clear to NWG that when the game is on the line, he's the one with the ball in his hands and making the decisions.

SWZag
02-25-2017, 08:45 PM
Problem?

maynard g krebs
02-25-2017, 08:47 PM
BS. How many wins has he contributed to? How many times has this happened? End of story.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:48 PM
Problem?

Three straight turnovers in 30 seconds to end the game. Yeah, I would say that's a problem. But why was he bringing the ball up when we already know he's a turnover machine? Why wasn't Nigel or Silas bringing the ball up? That's kind of on Few.

MickMick
02-25-2017, 08:48 PM
Syracuse flashback. Reliving the last few minutes all over again.

We all knew it was coming.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:49 PM
BS. How many wins has he contributed to? How many times has this happened? End of story.

But it's really not. He makes at least three careless turnovers every single game. The thing is we've been blowing out our opponents by so much that it's been overlooked, it came back to bite us in this game though.

jazzdelmar
02-25-2017, 08:49 PM
Syracuse flashback. Reliving the last few minutes all over again.

We all knew it was coming.

And it will again. And again. No point guards in sight.

Zagceo
02-25-2017, 08:50 PM
BS. How many wins has he contributed to? How many times has this happened? End of story.

Zags last 2 losses.....Perkins came up short in the clutch. Fact

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 08:50 PM
Perkins had nothing to do with this loss.

We should of never even been behind 2 points with 40 seconds left at HOME against a team that is UNRANKED with far less talent

Better yet.. how are we not prepared for THAT EXACT SITUATION?? If we were, Perkins wouldn't of had the ball in his hands.. period.. that's on Few.

drvenkman05
02-25-2017, 08:51 PM
I agree that I don my understand why Josh had the ball, but are you seriously saying Nigel isn't a PG?


And it will again. And again. No point guards in sight.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:52 PM
Perkins had nothing to do with this loss.

We should of never even been behind 2 points with 40 seconds left at HOME against a team that is UNRANKED with far less talent

Better yet.. how are we not prepared for THAT EXACT SITUATION?? If we were, Perkins wouldn't of had the ball in his hands.. period.. that's on Few.

Doesn't your last sentence kind of validate jazzes point? If Nigel does leave after the season like many suspect Josh will have the ball in his hands for most of the game next season. So yes, by default that is Fews Perkins problem.

MickMick
02-25-2017, 08:52 PM
Perkins had nothing to do with this loss.

We should of never even been behind 2 points with 40 seconds left at HOME against a team that is UNRANKED with far less talent

Better yet.. how are we not prepared for THAT EXACT SITUATION?? If we were, Perkins wouldn't of had the ball in his hands.. period.. that's on Few.

How about with three minute to go and he stepped out of bounds. Can I count that one?

Or do I have to go back a bit earlier?

Which unforced errors count?

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:53 PM
I agree that I don my understand why Josh had the ball, but are you seriously saying Nigel isn't a PG?

He means after this season

jazzdelmar
02-25-2017, 08:53 PM
I agree that I don my understand why Josh had the ball, but are you seriously saying Nigel isn't a PG?

Of course not. Nigel is bye bye and Josh is argh only a sophomore.

bartruff1
02-25-2017, 08:54 PM
Josh didn't lose this game....the officials didn't cost us the game....BYU simply won it....Mika was unstoppable .....

Goshzagit
02-25-2017, 08:54 PM
Well...guess we figured out who should have the ball at end of game scenarios.

Our guards looked lost.

Where was Nigel???

When we review & watch film, we will finally know...this is his team.

Pretty ridiculous how we finished this game.

HUGE wake up call.

History vanquished by BYU....yet again.

Terribly disappointing. Will never forget this loss nor will BYU.

Zag4Hire
02-25-2017, 08:54 PM
What can he do about it?

I don't know if Perk's play bothered me as much and it should have been a non-factor. Look at the shooting effort? Sweet Moses. BYU wasn't playing batten the hatches style defense--they wanted to get in a shootout.

I have no idea why they didn't push harder to get Mika in foul trouble. That was a head scratcher.

Zagger
02-25-2017, 08:54 PM
Problem?
Ditto - No Perkins problem. The team did not look focused. Few didn't even seem focused. But, that's college BB. BYU had nothing to lose, played loose and played smart. Zags played arguably their worst game of the season. Rotten that they had to lose the last regular season game. 29-1 isn't shabby though. Time to lick wounds now then focus, focus, focus here on out. Hope Tillie & Alberts are ready in 7 days. If not then by the NCAAs. The Zags had no spark in the 2nd half.

jazzdelmar
02-25-2017, 08:55 PM
How about with three minute to go and he stepped out of bounds. Can I count that one?

Or do I have to go back a bit earlier?

Which unforced errors count?

Friendly scorekeeper. I counted 7-8 turnovers and matador D. Don't count the 3-9 shooting. That's not the issue.

LouisianaZag
02-25-2017, 08:56 PM
Make it clear to NWG that when the game is on the line, he's the one with the ball in his hands and making the decisions.

Absolutely, I couldn't believe NWG ran from the ball. I would like to know their thinking. Did the coaches think NWG was being covered too well from the point? I have to give BYU their due they handled that great Zag start then played their game.

SWZag
02-25-2017, 08:56 PM
Three straight turnovers in 30 seconds to end the game. Yeah, I would say that's a problem. But why was he bringing the ball up when we already know he's a turnover machine? Why wasn't Nigel or Silas bringing the ball up? That's kind of on Few.

Would you care to know that Perkins has 60 turnovers coming into the game and Nigel has 58. Both showing a 2.1 turnovers per game?

Please, tell me more about this turnover machine.

ConnZag3
02-25-2017, 08:56 PM
The out of control nature of that last minute was highly concerning. NWG is the calming influence of this team and needed to have the ball at the end, not Perkins. Perkins didn't lose the game, but cost them a chance to fight to the end for sure.

CDC84
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
JP continues to be the worse ballhandling guard that Few has ever coached. I love so many aspects of his game, but that dribble is almost a turnover on a silver platter.

Nigel has to have the ball in his hands in those game moments. He's the best player on the team for gosh sakes.

If he wasn't such a great outside shooter, and if I wasn't so worried about destroying this team's chemistry, I would almost be tempted to put Melson in during pressure situations.

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
It's funny really. We all know this wasn't just another "night of college BBALL" and this game was history .. and Few blew it but no one wants to say it..


Whatever, 29-1, instead of 30-0(which is a HUGE difference), everyone will wave it off for now like it's not a big deal .. but when the same thing happens in the Tourny, new excuses will be made .. that's just the way it is around here

MDABE80
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
The kid has had trouble with turns. Always has had trouble with the ball............and how he manages a game.. Those last two in row tonight though kinda sealed the fate of this BYU gam. I'm not sure we would have won anyway but these two really hurt. No chance to recover points but BYU did get the ball and score.
As I said last year ( nobody liked it) he's not a PG and he's just not consistently good with ball handling. Again 12 months later, it's the same deal. (nobody will like it this year either). I'm not gonna jump this kid's bones over it but tonight's performance hurt.

Plainsman
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
Make it clear to NWG that when the game is on the line, he's the one with the ball in his hands and making the decisions.

THIS!!!!

MontanaZag
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
Was Goss hurt? Seemed to be limping a bit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
Would you care to know that Perkins has 60 turnovers coming into the game and Nigel has 58. Both showing a 2.1 turnovers per game?

Please, tell me more about this turnover machine.

Perkins with six. Goss with four. So goss had more turnovers going into the last minute of the game

Cannot have point guards turning it over 10 times in a game though

TexasZagFan
02-25-2017, 08:58 PM
Perkins with six. Goss with four. So goss had more turnovers going into the last minute of the game

Cannot have point guards turning it over 10 times in a game though

Nigel's had better games, too. He was forcing it tonight.

SWZag
02-25-2017, 08:59 PM
JP continues to be the worse ballhandling guard that Few has ever coached. I love so many aspects of his game, but that dribble is almost a turnover on a silver platter.

Nigel has to have the ball in his hands in those game moments. He's the best player on the team for gosh sakes.

If he wasn't such a great outside shooter, and if I wasn't so worried about destroying this team's chemistry, I would almost be tempted to put Melson in during pressure situations.

You make bold statements. Please, back them up with facts. I'd love to see how you will prove Perkins really is the worst ball handling guard Few has coached.

ProVeeZag
02-25-2017, 08:59 PM
Ditto - No Perkins problem. The team did not look focused. Few didn't even seem focused. But, that's college BB. BYU had nothing to lose, played loose and played smart. Zags played arguably their worst game of the season. Rotten that they had to lose the last regular season game. 29-1 isn't shabby though. Time to lick wounds now then focus, focus, focus here on out. Hope Tillie & Alberts are ready in 7 days. If not then by the NCAAs. The Zags had no spark in the 2nd half.

Don't think there is any argument whatsoever ... this was their worst game of the season by a wide margin. The offense was atrocious, no flow to it at all. No adjustments to what BYU was doing on either end of the court ... just a straight line flameout after the opening 8 minutes.

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 08:59 PM
It's funny really. We all know this wasn't just another "night of college BBALL" and this game was history .. and Few blew it but no one wants to say it..


Whatever, 29-1, instead of 30-0(which is a HUGE difference), everyone will wave it off for now like it's not a big deal .. but when the same thing happens in the Tourny, new excuses will be made .. that's just the way it is around here

Yep gosh darn it coach should have

Made more free throws
Turn the ball over less

Grabbed a few more rebounds

And he should have made a few more 3 balls


Gosh darn it.....you sure seem to be negative Nancy and a troll

Zerogame
02-25-2017, 08:59 PM
Josh is a turnover machine, but that is not why we lost. NO one was hitting shots tonight in the second half and the charity line didn't provide much charity. The offense was stymied and they out muscled us much of the second half. We looked pretty pedestrian honestly.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:01 PM
The kid has had trouble with turns. Always has had trouble with the ball............and how he manages a game.. Those last two in row tonight though kinda sealed the fate of this BYU gam. I'm not sure we would have won anyway but these two really hurt. No chance to recover points but BYU did get the ball and score.
As I said last year ( nobody liked it) he's not a PG and he's just not consistently good with ball handling. Again 12 months later, it's the same deal. (nobody will like it this year either). I'm not gonna jump this kid's bones over it but tonight's performance hurt.

Um…I don't think "jump his bones" means what you think it means. LOL

Goshzagit
02-25-2017, 09:01 PM
I felt it odd Coach Few calling out Perkins in post game interviews vs USD.

Saying "wish he'd shoot more & drive less..."

Caught me by surprise...now I see why?

Then again, I like when Josh drives & dishes or goes with his underrated floater...

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:02 PM
Josh is a turnover machine, but that is not why we lost. NO one was hitting shots tonight in the second half and the charity line didn't provide much charity. The offense was stymied and they out muscled us much of the second half. We looked pretty pedestrian honestly.

I don't think anyone in this entire thread said that we lost this game because of Josh's turnovers. I think it's a completely valid and mutually exclusive thread premise. Especially for next year.

gonwick
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
Josh makes unnecessary turnovers every game. Blowouts have hidden this, as others have said. No, few didn't miss free throws. He didn't turn it over. He also didn't use a timeout early or even late in the byu run that put them back in the game. He didn't make many adjustments besides Jw3 to Mika. He is a great prep coach but his in game work is mediocre at best. Maybe this helps them plan for tourney, or maybe it sets our expectations at a more realistic level. If they can't beat byu at home, they're not going far.WCC helps set them up for failure since few competitive games and little athleticism. Hope for final four, expect sweet sixteen.

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
Yep gosh darn it coach should have

Made more free throws
Turn the ball over less

Grabbed a few more rebounds

And he should have made a few more 3 balls


Gosh darn it.....you sure seem to be negative Nancy and a troll

So wait a second.. you don't think great coaches with great teams don't ever have a bad shooting night, or a poor defensive performance but yet still make adjustments to win Bc THAYS what great coaches do?

Play it off all you want. At the end of the day, yes for whatever reason we played bad.. problem is, we did nothing about it .. we just accepted it and let it play out..

Meanwhile, other coaches/teams would of found other ways to win, especially with a PERFECT season on the line.. against a UNRANKED TEAM. AT HOME, to say the least.


But hey, I'm just a troll, what do I know?

Goshzagit
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
Was Goss hurt? Seemed to be limping a bit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Limps on & off.

Been dealing with a nagging ankle & took a few spills tonight.

jazzdelmar
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
I don't think anyone in this entire thread said that we lost this game because of Josh's turnovers. I think it's a completely valid and mutually exclusive thread premise. Especially for next year.

Absolutely

MontanaCoyote
02-25-2017, 09:06 PM
Would you care to know that Perkins has 60 turnovers coming into the game and Nigel has 58. Both showing a 2.1 turnovers per game?

Please, tell me more about this turnover machine.

I think both have been trying to do too much when pressured, pressed or in traffic. Both, lately, have tried to escape on their own too often, get stuck in hot messes.

P

drvenkman05
02-25-2017, 09:07 PM
If this is true, why did Josh come into the game with 60 TOs and Nigel come into the game with two fewer, 58? I don't disagree with the TOs being a problem but the game issue is more complex than just Josh. Josh is a natural SG and yet, at times, no offensive plays are run for him. That can't JUST be on the players.


JP continues to be the worse ballhandling guard that Few has ever coached. I love so many aspects of his game, but that dribble is almost a turnover on a silver platter.

Nigel has to have the ball in his hands in those game moments. He's the best player on the team for gosh sakes.

If he wasn't such a great outside shooter, and if I wasn't so worried about destroying this team's chemistry, I would almost be tempted to put Melson in during pressure situations.

scott257
02-25-2017, 09:07 PM
Would you care to know that Perkins has 60 turnovers coming into the game and Nigel has 58. Both showing a 2.1 turnovers per game?

Please, tell me more about this turnover machine.

Thanks. I think singling out one player or the coach for what happened tonight is short sighted. There is plenty of blame to go around, and I can guarantee you the entire team feels the pain of this.

maynard g krebs
02-25-2017, 09:07 PM
But it's really not. He makes at least three careless turnovers every single game.

I'm apparently not as into "alternative facts" as you are. In real facts, he averages just over 2 tpg for his fr and soph years, about 1 less than Stepp and Dickau did as jrs/srs. It's something that can be looked up in the records, or you can just pull numbers out of your derriere.

TexasZagFan
02-25-2017, 09:09 PM
Thanks. I think singling out one player or the coach for what happened tonight is short sighted. There is plenty of blame to go around, and I can guarantee you the entire team feels the pain of this.

It was definitely a team loss. IMO, no one played even a decent game. You let a team hang around, and this is what happens.

What did Few get a T for?

drvenkman05
02-25-2017, 09:09 PM
It strikes ME as odd because I don't see many plays run FOR Josh. Poor kid gets slammed if he shoots and slammed if he doesn't.


I felt it odd Coach Few calling out Perkins in post game interviews vs USD.

Saying "wish he'd shoot more & drive less...".
Caught me by surprise...now I see why?

Then again, I like when Josh drives & dishes or goes with his underrated floater...

VinnyZag
02-25-2017, 09:10 PM
Perkins played terribly (6 turnovers, 2-7 on 3s, several of them forced), but I really think they lost this one on defense. Couldn't stop Mika (couldn't even get a hand in his face on the jumper that won the game) and Haws banged in 5 threes.

CDC84
02-25-2017, 09:13 PM
You make bold statements. Please, back them up with facts. I'd love to see how you will prove Perkins really is the worst ball handling guard Few has coached.

How could I possibly back something like that up with facts?? It's an observation based on watching every Gonzaga game that has ever been on TV. I can't statistically measure it, but all I know is that he commits too many TO's, and they almost always come from a high dribble that he doesn't protect, as well as regularly dribbling the ball off his knees and feet. It's a major weakness in his game. Love so many other parts of his game, but in my observation, he's the worst ballhandling guard I have seen Mark coach. To say anything else would be lying on my part.

I have made it very clear in the post game thread that he was just a small part in tonight's loss. The whole team was bad.

Zag4Hire
02-25-2017, 09:14 PM
Um…I don't think "jump his bones" means what you think it means. LOL

+1 I'm sure he meant he wouldn't go all the way with Perk's game unless he were to get lucky.

scott257
02-25-2017, 09:14 PM
It was definitely a team loss. IMO, no one played even a decent game. You let a team hang around, and this is what happens.

What did Few get a T for?

Agree. The T was for complaining about a non-call on our possession when I believe Williams was fouled going to the basket. It was a clear foul in the replay.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:18 PM
I'm apparently not as into "alternative facts" as you are. In real facts, he averages just over 2 tpg for his fr and soph years, about 1 less than Stepp and Dickau did as jrs/srs. It's something that can be looked up in the records, or you can just pull numbers out of your derriere.

No need to be snarky, you're in your mid 60s not a teenager, act like it. I have eyes, I see his mistakes. Those that are saying that Nigel turns the ball over just as much as Josh are ignoring the fact that he plays many more minutes than Josh and has the ball in his hands a lot more than Josh so in essence they're spreading fake news.

SWZag
02-25-2017, 09:22 PM
No need to be snarky, you're in your mid 60s not a teenager, act like it. I have eyes, I see his mistakes. Those that are saying that Nigel turns the ball over just as much as Josh are ignoring the fact that he plays many more minutes than Josh and has the ball in his hands a lot more than Josh so in essence they're spreading fake news.

Fake news? Nigel has played about 50 more minutes than Perkins, you are correct. That's about 90 seconds more a game. Where did you find your facts about who has the ball in their hands more. Please share.

maynard g krebs
02-25-2017, 09:25 PM
No need to be snarky, you're in your mid 60s not a teenager, act like it. I have eyes, I see his mistakes. Those that are saying that Nigel turns the ball over just as much as Josh are ignoring the fact that he plays many more minutes than Josh and has the ball in his hands a lot more than Josh so in essence they're spreading fake news.

One man's snark is another man's sarcasm. What you said was factually, demonstrably wrong, and deserving of either. How'd that premature gloating about calling the perfect season work out for ya?

And I'm still in my early 60's, btw, not mid. So there you go again, to quote one of your faves.

cggonzaga
02-25-2017, 09:28 PM
Absolutely

Hahaha then what's the point of the thread? There is no way you blame this game on Perkins. 3-16 from 3pt line. 16-29 from free throw line. 16 turnovers. I believe lowest assists in a game this year. Quit being a bully Jazz because you don't like the kid. It's old and ignorant much as I imagine you at are. The entire team besides Williams played poorly. We played our worst game of the year and BYU one of their best. Start acting like a knowledgeable basketball fan and not an angry old man.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:28 PM
Fake news? Nigel has played about 50 more minutes than Perkins, you are correct. That's about 90 seconds more a game. Where did you find your facts about who has the ball in their hands more. Please share.

Wait, are you saying that Nigel isn't the primary ball handler on this team? He's been listed as a starting point guard all season and you're saying that he does not have the ball in his hand a lot more than Perkins, is that what you're saying?

gonzagafan62
02-25-2017, 09:30 PM
A Perkins problem? Lol you people never fail to amaze.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:30 PM
One man's snark is another man's sarcasm. What you said was factually, demonstrably wrong, and deserving of either. How'd that premature gloating about calling the perfect season work out for ya?

And I'm still in my early 60's, btw, not mid. So there you go again, to quote one of your faves.

Gloating about a perfect season? Seriously? Early 60s mid 60s, either way you're really immature for your age. I had you on ignore list for a while, but I said you know what everybody deserves a second chance and I took you off but you proved me wrong so welcome back to my ignore list.

Zagceo
02-25-2017, 09:31 PM
With Perkins it's more about the way he plays in crutch time....just not delivering.

He didn't lose the game...but he could helped win it by making a few play in the end.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:33 PM
Hahaha then what's the point of the thread? There is no way you blame this game on Perkins. 3-16 from 3pt line. 16-29 from free throw line. 16 turnovers. I believe lowest assists in a game this year. Quit being a bully Jazz because you don't like the kid. It's old and ignorant much as I imagine you at are. The entire team besides Williams played poorly. We played our worst game of the year and BYU one of their best. Start acting like a knowledgeable basketball fan and not an angry old man.

He's agreeing with what I wrote, that's why he said absolutely. I said that no one has claimed that we lost this game because of joshes turnovers, we didn't. I said that this thread premise is exclusive from the game results. And he said absolutely. He was agreeing with me.

Tmac5360
02-25-2017, 09:33 PM
This is easy folks. Few obviously has no clue what he's doing. 29 cupcakes and we finally play a good teams d lose. Kidding of course. Josh is really struggling. The biggest issue I see is that he wants to be on an And1 mix tape instead of just playing the game. Maybe they shouldn't have been in that spot down 2. But they were and they will again. It needs to get fixed. Or he needs to sit in those spots.

maynard g krebs
02-25-2017, 09:34 PM
Wait, are you saying that Nigel isn't the primary ball handler on this team? He's been listed as a starting point guard all season and you're saying that he does not have the ball in his hand a lot more than Perkins, is that what you're saying?

Last year as primary pg as a fr, Josh averaged 2 to's per game in almost 31 minutes. Same as NWG this year as a 4th yr junior. NWG's bad passes get a "pass" here.

MDABE80
02-25-2017, 09:35 PM
Lots of things went wrong. Offense was "iffy" at best. The worst thing I saw was an abject failure of defense. We've done well all year. Tonight though, it's the one thing we really could have used. When the offense isn't working, defense is the one thing that should. 79 pts against. Yikes and not from a very good team. Looks like the wheels just came off. It happens. Probably why it's so hard to go through season undefeated. Something always happens.

cggonzaga
02-25-2017, 09:40 PM
He's agreeing with what I wrote, that's why he said absolutely. I said that no one has claimed that we lost this game because of joshes turnovers, we didn't. I said that this thread premise is exclusive from the game results. And he said absolutely. He was agreeing with me.

Thanks spy, I didn't figure that one out. Yikes. And you're seriously calling Maynard immature while talking about ignoring him? You're too much.

maynard g krebs
02-25-2017, 09:40 PM
Gloating about a perfect season? Seriously? Early 60s mid 60s, either way you're really immature for your age. I had you on ignore list for a while, but I said you know what everybody deserves a second chance and I took you off but you proved me wrong so welcome back to my ignore list.

Yup. You were talking about how dumb the people who disagreed with you re perfect season were, speaking of maturity levels. Proud to be on your ignore list. I guess that means no more responses when I point out your inanities.

zagsfanforlife
02-25-2017, 09:41 PM
The thought of Josh Perkins as our starting PG next year and having expectations to actually make some noise scares the living hell out of me.

cggonzaga
02-25-2017, 09:43 PM
The thought of Josh Perkins as our starting PG next year and having expectations to actually make some noise scares the living hell out of me.

You must not have too much to worry about then huh?

northsidezagfan
02-25-2017, 09:43 PM
Maynard you will never be on my ignore list.

northsidezagfan
02-25-2017, 09:43 PM
And not just because I don't have one

maynard g krebs
02-25-2017, 09:44 PM
The thought of Josh Perkins as our starting PG next year and having expectations to actually make some noise scares the living hell out of me.

Seriously banging my head against the wall on this thread. He was starting pg as a true fr and 11 seed destroyed the 6 and 3 to get to the sweet 16. Then he happily agreed to bringing in NWG to make the team even better. I'm seriously disappointed with a lot of the fan base in this thread (not intending to single you out).

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:44 PM
The thought of Josh Perkins as our starting PG next year and having expectations to actually make some noise scares the living hell out of me.

And that is jazz's premise of this thread in a nutshell. For some reason many people took it to believe that it was about this particular games outcome, which it wasn't. If Josh is our primary point guard next season and he doesn't learn from his mistakes, then we are in deep trouble. he had six turnovers and zero assists tonight.

zagsfanforlife
02-25-2017, 09:45 PM
Seriously banging my head against the wall on this thread. He was starting pg as a true fr and 11 seed destroyed the 6 and 3 to get to the sweet 16. Then he happily agreed to bringing in NWG to make the team even better. I'm seriously disappointed with a lot of the fan base in this thread (not intending to single you out).

And he has gotten worse.

gonzagafan62
02-25-2017, 09:47 PM
Seriously banging my head against the wall on this thread. He was starting pg as a true fr and 11 seed destroyed the 6 and 3 to get to the sweet 16. Then he happily agreed to bringing in NWG to make the team even better. I'm seriously disappointed with a lot of the fan base in this thread (not intending to single you out).

This. Josh Perkins is one of the most important players on this team come NCAA tournament time.

cggonzaga
02-25-2017, 09:51 PM
Seriously banging my head against the wall on this thread. He was starting pg as a true fr and 11 seed destroyed the 6 and 3 to get to the sweet 16. Then he happily agreed to bringing in NWG to make the team even better. I'm seriously disappointed with a lot of the fan base in this thread (not intending to single you out).

Couldn't agree more Maynard. Often does after a loss.

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 09:52 PM
This. Josh Perkins is one of the most important players on this team come NCAA tournament time.

Agree

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 09:54 PM
And that is jazz's premise of this thread in a nutshell. For some reason many people took it to believe that it was about this particular games outcome, which it wasn't. If Josh is our primary point guard next season and he doesn't learn from his mistakes, then we are in deep trouble. he had six turnovers and zero assists tonight.

And he is almost at a 2-1 assist to to ratio and is only averaging 2.1 to per game. So I am not seeing what you are seeing

SwainZag
02-25-2017, 10:03 PM
Perkins is very important to this team. Perkins has also shown to be turnover prone in close/late situations. He turned the ball over 4 times in the last 49 seconds tonight. That's the last 4 possessions starting with a 2 point deficit.

U Zig, I Zag
02-25-2017, 10:18 PM
Josh needs to step back. Facilitate and take good clean shots as they come to him. Work hard on D. I am over the no-looks and the 'vision' stuff.

zagsfanforlife
02-25-2017, 10:21 PM
Josh needs to step back. Facilitate and take good clean shots as they come to him. Work hard on D. I am over the no-looks and the 'vision' stuff.

He is a hell of a shooter. Be a knock down shooter on the wing. Make the simple play. Leave the playmaking up to NWG. His bonehead turnovers are pointless

Stache
02-25-2017, 10:32 PM
Josh is a fine shooting guard. He did this last year against UCLA. He tries to force passes when simple passes are all we need and his handles are sloppy. He makes shots most of the time and is valuable. He does not look or play like a point guard at this level.

zagsfanforlife
02-25-2017, 11:25 PM
Josh is a fine shooting guard. He did this last year against UCLA. He tries to force passes when simple passes are all we need and his handles are sloppy. He makes shots most of the time and is valuable. He does not look or play like a point guard at this level.

This.

DirtyDredZag
02-25-2017, 11:43 PM
Loving the nagativity on the board. Finally some realism. We played tight and finally had a game that few talks about so much where nothing was working. We will end up better for it but three senior nights in a row? I was watching the seniors give their speeches and I don't think Perkins looked up once, just hunched over. Good to see some fans stick around and thank the seniors unlike the last two seasons.
Anyone else in the building notice a sharp decline in play after they showed Thane's misshapen head on the big screen. I know it made me sick. We need another priest as president and we would be 30 - 0. Even if we drop to 5th that's a lot better than the law schools 132# ranking.

Murphy outgo lifer
02-25-2017, 11:47 PM
I think Josh is a very good shooter who does not always aggressively hunt his shot. I have been amazed at how consistently he can make mid range jumpers and open and contested 3's. I think his value to this team is in his scoring ability (mostly his shooting) and making smart passes when they are available. I think his vision is very good and can be a effective in a two PG system like we are running but he needs to make simple plays and not try to be too flashy while also being aggressive with hunting his shot.

He has been inconsistent this year and I think lately it has been due to the back problems he has been experiencing which have made him tentative and at the same time he has been "forcing it" because the staff is asking him to do more. He is not playing comfortably like the end of last year and mid OCC this year. I think when he is playing confidently while being aggressive with his shot he adds another dimension to this team that it really needs. The problem is, for whatever reason, be it injury or youthfulness, he has been inconsistent.

My understanding of the two sides of this argument are that Josh's stats do not necessarily reflect a "turnover machine" as many have stated, however, I think the actual frustration is with how his turnovers come about. He has a loose handle and is very flashy with his dribbling and gets turned-over a lot of times 28ft away from the basket when there wasn't much to be gained. This is compared to Nigel who's game consists of breaking down the defense and getting to the rim or creating for others, so he will get caught some-times being "too aggressive" and causing a turnover but for the most part he is very successful at this type of game. His turnovers are a product of his style of game which I think we can all agree is very good - he averages 16 points a game and nearly 5 assists because he has an attacking and aggressive style game which usually comes with more turnovers 2.1 per game in his case. Josh on the other hand is more of a perimeter player - not always but most of the time - and his turnovers seem to be more of the careless sort - dribbling off his legs and feet and slipping out of his hand - where it is not a byproduct of his successful game type; they are just poor handling of the basketball. Josh average 9 points a game mostly from jump shots and 3's - 1.8 3's made a game - while also producing 2.1 turnovers a game with 1 less assist per game than Nigel -at 3.8.

Josh does penetrate and he gets assists and turnovers from this but I think the biggest difference in frustration from him compared to Nigel is Josh's has more turnovers in the careless and flashy department. Both Nigel and Josh have turnovers because they are being too aggressive with passes and trying to force it when there is not much to be gained from it. They both need to work on that.

I hope Josh can figure it out because when he is playing like he did in the Advocare Invitational this year and against Arizona and Tennessee he is a major asset. He needs to be at that level consistently though.

DixieZag
02-26-2017, 12:53 AM
Just a couple simple phrases to summarize the real takeaways in the thread,

* Just to get this out of the way, the reason we lost is the never-to-be-damned-enough Spokesman Review published their 30-0 special this morning. You flip off the fates and that's that.

But

1. Biggest reason we lost is we couldn't throw the ball in the ocean. Make average FT rate or even slightly below average 3pt shooting, we win, and not on one possession.

2. Perkins is struggling. Rationalize away, but he's struggling. He can go one of two directions.

3. Did no one else notice that the team looked totally gassed with 5 minutes left? Karno couldn't get up and down the floor, wasn't scoring (want to lay some blame?) and certainly invited the fouls inside b/c of his FT percentage. NWG's last drive (he might well have been fouled) looked "Pangosesque at the end of Arizona gassed"

4. Mika played the greatest game of his career, was unstoppable - doesn't mean we shouldn't have won

5. We lost one game this year. Hyperventilating on any one problem is a little silly. BUT, we didn't look like we'd belong on the floor with either AZ or UCLA - we are not the best team in the country right now.

6. Until mid-season, I fully believed a perfect regular season hurt us more than helped. I convinced myself otherwise, but in ONE way, I am glad we lost that game and didn't pull out a magic 2 point win b/c it resets their entire attitude right as needed.

7. I would have rather lost to any other team in the WCC, on any other night, than BYU - which is now in our heads. I wish they would've finished 4th so we could play them again. And beating them next year won't get any easier.

8. This win might've gotten BYU into the NIT

9. If we're not a one seed, it may well also benefit us b/c this team needs some fire (that was apparent from 10:00 in the first half).

10. One REAL thing that's worth concern is that no one really appeared to want the ball in the last 2 minutes, real tight and that's an age old GU problem that either will or will never be vanquished.

11. Still, a few more FTs, maybe 2-3 made 3s, we win.

We're 29-1 and likely a number one seed. Not bad. But, I think we know the truth, this team will really have to put it all together to get to the FF.

Gin N GUice
02-26-2017, 01:07 AM
Perkins IS a liability in the clutch. If you can't see that then you don't know basketball. Plain and simple.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 01:12 AM
The thought of Josh Perkins as our starting PG next year and having expectations to actually make some noise scares the living hell out of me.

Are you the guy who screamed at Perkins and called him horrible names while Perkins was crying walking off court?

MDABE80
02-26-2017, 01:47 AM
Dixie you forgot the most basic thing: POOR DEFENSE. It collapsed. There's no spin on that.
Perhaps the turnovers in the last 2 mins that were converted to BYU points might Perk (play on words) your interest as well.

Zagceo
02-26-2017, 01:48 AM
Are you the guy who screamed at Perkins and called him horrible names while Perkins was crying walking off court?

crying.....really?

Gin N GUice
02-26-2017, 01:59 AM
And that is jazz's premise of this thread in a nutshell. For some reason many people took it to believe that it was about this particular games outcome, which it wasn't. If Josh is our primary point guard next season and he doesn't learn from his mistakes, then we are in deep trouble. he had six turnovers and zero assists tonight.


Jazz is smarter than that. Initial premise or not, he knew exactly where this thread was heading.

zagsfanforlife
02-26-2017, 04:46 AM
Are you the guy who screamed at Perkins and called him horrible names while Perkins was crying walking off court?

No but would have loved to been at a game. Next time you have tickets, I'll take them. Thank you.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 05:33 AM
crying.....really?

ACtually yes I am. Ryan Edwards I believe was consoling him like it was march tournament loss.

I felt for a 20-21 year old who was getting screamed at by his "fans".

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 05:38 AM
ACtually yes I am. Ryan Edwards I believe was consoling him like it was march tournament loss.

I felt for a 20-21 year old who was getting screamed at by his "fans".

Hold on, you mean fans at the game? Surely you are not including posters on this board.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 05:43 AM
Hold on, you mean fans at the game? Surely you are not including posters on this board.

Yes at the game. Could be posters? Sure. Could not? Sure. It was disgusting.

mnzag24
02-26-2017, 06:03 AM
Yes at the game. Could be posters? Sure. Could not? Sure. It was disgusting.

That's pathetic. Whoever that is should be ashamed of themselves. I am all in favor of giving a handful of Zag fans immunity from prosecution to be able to handle these situations as they see fit.

bartruff1
02-26-2017, 06:07 AM
Perkins is a great "problem" to have, as usual the expectations of him were completely unreasonable ....he will be a key player for years to come.... I don't see any of the underclassmen leaving ....

gonstu
02-26-2017, 06:07 AM
That's pathetic. Whoever that is should be ashamed of themselves. I am all in favor of giving a handful of Zag fans immunity from prosecution to be able to handle these situations as they see fit.

agreed, that's horrible to hear. Sure, I was yelling at my TV - but to yell at the player on his home court? wow.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 06:09 AM
Perkins is a great "problem" to have, as usual the expectations of him were completely unreasonable ....he will be a key player for years to come.... I don't see any of the underclassmen leaving ....

Nigel is bye bye....

Zags11
02-26-2017, 06:12 AM
That's pathetic. Whoever that is should be ashamed of themselves. I am all in favor of giving a handful of Zag fans immunity from prosecution to be able to handle these situations as they see fit.

Let's just say I let him know what I thought. I was pissed off.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 06:13 AM
agreed, that's horrible to hear. Sure, I was yelling at my TV - but to yell at the player on his home court? wow.

It was r rated too. As loud as possible. Don't get me wrong I wasn't happy and wasn't happy at mistakes. However telling him....isn't cool.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 06:18 AM
It was r rated too. As loud as possible. Don't get me wrong I wasn't happy and wasn't happy at mistakes. However telling him....isn't cool.

Were these students?

bigblahla
02-26-2017, 06:19 AM
Flippant is the term I've used here to describe the way I see JP treat the ball....also he was guarding Kaufusi, who blew by him, on his tip-in basket that sealed the deal... really bad last few possessions for JP and it does bring back the memory of the Syracuse loss....best get his head up....lot's of ball to play still..

Go!! Zags!!!

Zags11
02-26-2017, 06:22 AM
Were these students?

Nope. Mid 40 year olds.

vandalzag
02-26-2017, 06:36 AM
Nigel is bye bye....

Where is he going? You speak with such certainty. Do you have inside knowledge? His name is missing from most if not all draft projections. Is this conjecture on your part or have you transitioned from mind reading to seer?

vandalzag
02-26-2017, 06:40 AM
It was r rated too. As loud as possible. Don't get me wrong I wasn't happy and wasn't happy at mistakes. However telling him....isn't cool.

What a bunch of jerks. Can't imagine doing that at the game. Tearing down players should be done on internet message boards, never in person. That way you can hid behind a username.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 06:51 AM
What a bunch of jerks. Can't imagine doing that at the game. Tearing down players should be done on internet message boards, never in person. That way you can hid behind a username.

Lmao. You can say a player isn't playing well or coach is tight and I don't have a issue. I have a issue when someone tells a kid he can do oral exam or he is a dog poo in very nice terms. That's horrible.

And Internet is for soft tissue ppl.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 06:51 AM
Where is he going? You speak with such certainty. Do you have inside knowledge? His name is missing from most if not all draft projections. Is this conjecture on your part or have you transitioned from mind reading to seer?

I do.

GoZags
02-26-2017, 06:58 AM
I wish there was a thread "rating" that equates to less than one star ....

Stache
02-26-2017, 07:04 AM
I am looking for a draft board or news story saying Nigel is headed to the NBA. I don't see the story. Having been to a number of NBA games this year, the speed and athletic ability is truly unreal. The men in the NBA are the most elite athletes you can imagine. The only "above average" athletes tend to be 7 feet tall and get contracts because they are 7 feet tall. I love all aspects of NWG's game in college and would absolutely love to be wrong, but I don't think he is NBA draft material in a year where all "experts" say it is a guard heavy draft....

As for fans at the game, lots of people were there last year and this year. Last year McClellan said "its not over" and this year the entire student section was chanting that. Don't let some tool who yells at Josh change the reality that the fans, young and old, were there trying to will shots to fall. Josh has his issues, but is a net benefit. We just have to put him in positions to take advantage of his assists and minimize his weaknesses.

Alum08
02-26-2017, 07:05 AM
This team is at its absolute best when Josh is playing well. I don't know if it's a cause or an effect. All I know is that for this team to win a NC, he will need to play well.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 09:17 AM
Josh is trying his best, he just doesn't have the requisite skills. He should not be cursed at, as is described. This is titled MARK FEWS ....problem, not Josh's. Why is it that as per ESPN one of the 5 best PGs in CBB is playing off the ball most of the time? If NWG expects to make millions as a PG, shouldn't he be honing those skills now? Please explain. So we have 3 players out of position. NWG at the mostly 2, Josh, a terrific shooter, decent passer and terrible ball handler at the point, and at the 3 we have a 5-11 sniper who can't shoot. Please explain. And Melson who apparently isn't good enough to start........20 games ago, the team should have been reconstituted as (its too late now): NWG and Melson, Tillie, JW and Karno.

MDABE80
02-26-2017, 09:33 AM
If this really happened , nothing has been said about it so far.......outside of Zag 11. If true, those "mid 40's" characters will never see the inside of the K 2 again. Somebody should be saying something! GoZags would know I'm sure. Or Angelo.......

Josh has got to get better or simply be a shooter.

gmo
02-26-2017, 10:05 AM
This whole thing is pretty puzzling to me to be honest. I've been a huge sports fan my whole life, follow teams across many sports... heck, I work in the professional sports industry and I am having a hard time figuring out why so many "fans" are losing their minds over this one. I still firmly believe that this Zags team is going to make history this March, as in the farthest a Gonzaga team has ever gone in the Big Dance. In my mind this game was relatively meaningless... regular season records are just that, regular. Ask the 2001 Seattle Mariners. Does anyone outside of a handful of Mariners fans remember what that team accomplished (most wins in the history of the American League and tied for most in the history of the sport)... the answer to that is a resounding NO. Ask anyone who follows that team if they would rather have that regular season or would they rather have played in the World Series (and possibly won it) and every single one of them would take the World Series.

Yelling at a Zags player as they left the floor? Simply unacceptable and embarrassing... and I do hope that this person or persons are not allowed back in. Pathetic would be the word that comes to mind and not at all what this program is all about.

Let this light a fire in these boys and go on a run like it's 1999 (or better?). GO ZAGS!!!

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 10:12 AM
This whole thing is pretty puzzling to me to be honest. I've been a huge sports fan my whole life, follow teams across many sports... heck, I work in the professional sports industry and I am having a hard time figuring out why so many "fans" are losing their minds over this one. I still firmly believe that this Zags team is going to make history this March, as in the farthest a Gonzaga team has ever gone in the Big Dance. In my mind this game was relatively meaningless... regular season records are just that, regular. Ask the 2001 Seattle Mariners. Does anyone outside of a handful of Mariners fans remember what that team accomplished (most wins in the history of the American League and tied for most in the history of the sport)... the answer to that is a resounding NO. Ask anyone who follows that team if they would rather have that regular season or would they rather have played in the World Series (and possibly won it) and every single one of them would take the World Series.

Yelling at a Zags player as they left the floor? Simply unacceptable and embarrassing... and I do hope that this person or persons are not allowed back in. Pathetic would be the word that comes to mind and not at all what this program is all about.

Let this light a fire in these boys and go on a run like it's 1999 (or better?). GO ZAGS!!!

Serious question. How long u been following GU and its annual end of season mishaps? It's the deja vu quality that has most of us nutso.

gmo
02-26-2017, 10:13 AM
Serious answer - since I attended in 1992. Jazz, it's one game. The 1996 Bulls had some stinkers.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 10:17 AM
Serious answer - since I attended in 1992. Jazz, it's one game. The 1996 Bulls had some stinkers.

Fair enough. Welcome to the show. ;)

Zags11
02-26-2017, 10:57 AM
If this really happened , nothing has been said about it so far.......outside of Zag 11. If true, those "mid 40's" characters will never see the inside of the K 2 again. Somebody should be saying something! GoZags would know I'm sure. Or Angelo.......

Josh has got to get better or simply be a shooter.

Abe I wish I was making it up. It was section 106 above me where my family has had season tickets since k2 opened. They were coming down the steps bellowing. Al the way to where the kennel club is. Fairly obvious if Perkins wasn't already being consoled he might of heard it. Maybe myself telling him to grow up and show decency tempered him. Did he run on court? No. Did they yell as loud as possible? Yes. Also, beside that I know inside info from ppl but hopefully no zag player heard this.

It was disgusting. Those 40 year olds were sick.

vandalzag
02-26-2017, 11:03 AM
Serious question. How long u been following GU and its annual end of season mishaps? It's the deja vu quality that has most of us nutso.

I liked last seasons mishap when they won the WCC tourney and went to the sweet 16 as a 11 seed. Or the year before when they "mishapped" into the Elite 8. Now if GU had won last nights game by 1 would you have been posing the same question? The problem is Josh mus play well for this team to move forward. Pinning this loss on his last 2 turnovers is silly. Bigger issue last night is NWG going about 13 minutes in the 2nd half without a point. Team loss. Plenty of bad play to go along. No need to have a chicken little reaction.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 11:07 AM
I liked last seasons mishap when they won the WCC tourney and went to the sweet 16 as a 11 seed. Or the year before when they "mishapped" into the Elite 8. Now if GU had won last nights game by 1 would you have been posing the same question? The problem is Josh mus play well for this team to move forward. Pinning this loss on his last 2 turnovers is silly. Bigger issue last night is NWG going about 13 minutes in the 2nd half without a point. Team loss. Plenty of bad play to go along. No need to have a chicken little reaction.

Losing to Cuse was a mishap, courtesy of the point guard. Losing to Duke, other than KWs inexplicable missed layup, was a brilliant end to a wonderful season losing to a vastly superior team. There are more mishaps than brilliant endings, you know that as well as anyone. Losing to a vastly superior UA team on the Stepp miss was another brilliant end. As was losing to a vastly superior UNC.

bartruff1
02-26-2017, 11:25 AM
Abe I wish I was making it up. It was section 106 above me where my family has had season tickets since k2 opened. They were coming down the steps bellowing. Al the way to where the kennel club is. Fairly obvious if Perkins wasn't already being consoled he might of heard it. Maybe myself telling him to grow up and show decency tempered him. Did he run on court? No. Did they yell as loud as possible? Yes. Also, beside that I know inside info from ppl but hopefully no zag player heard this.

It was disgusting. Those 40 year olds were sick.

I noticed that Mika was jawing with someone during the game, especially after he made a basket..... was that the same jerk ? If so , he may have just provided some motivation to BYU ...

vandalzag
02-26-2017, 11:25 AM
Losing to Cuse was a mishap, courtesy of the point guard. Losing to Duke, other than KWs inexplicable missed layup, was a brilliant end to a wonderful season losing to a vastly superior team. There are more mishaps than brilliant endings, you know that as well as anyone. Losing to a vastly superior UA team on the Stepp miss was another brilliant end. As was losing to a vastly superior UNC.

Mishap he had his shot blocked. He also had 6 assists and just 2 TO's playing as the primary ball handler against the Cuse. I guess he should have kicked it out to Melson or KD who were a combined 2-11 that game. Zags lost because their leading scorer on the season did not score a point in the last 13 minutes of the game. But I guess if history was different and Josh made the shot you would be running around saying that he was the reason the zags won.

former1dog
02-26-2017, 11:37 AM
This entire thread is an over reaction. Good Lord!

sylean
02-26-2017, 11:57 AM
but silly things like the Mariners winning the most games in the regular season DO mean something....remember, they were about to break the all time record for wins in the season....Lou said before hand that it was "just" another game....well, it was not "just" another game...they proceeded to loose....and all their momentum going into the championship series was lost and they proceeded to loose fairly quickly....

sometimes you have to make a statement....like having a non losing regular season is a BIG thing and treat it as such...

however, all is not lost.....if they learn from this....hope they do...

zagfan1
02-26-2017, 12:35 PM
Getting back on point. Tell JP not to be a hero. There was still time in the game to make a smart play. On a scale of 1-10, he gets a one on decision making for those two plays. At the end of the game put Melson in. He will be smart and hand it over to Goss. Like what should have been done in the first place. He isn't ready for prime time and should have learned that from last year. Argh......,

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 12:47 PM
Mishap he had his shot blocked. He also had 6 assists and just 2 TO's playing as the primary ball handler against the Cuse. I guess he should have kicked it out to Melson or KD who were a combined 2-11 that game. Zags lost because their leading scorer on the season did not score a point in the last 13 minutes of the game. But I guess if history was different and Josh made the shot you would be running around saying that he was the reason the zags won.

Nah the biggest mishap was Few forgetting McClellan was still on the team. And no, Stepp missed that shot but he's still an all time fave of mine. Meech hit a huge shot, yadda yadda. You get the picture you're just striking an obstinate pose.

bartruff1
02-26-2017, 12:51 PM
Nah the biggest mishap was Few forgetting McClellan was still on the team.

Even Mark pretty much admitted that....I couldn't believe the guy that played such a big part of getting us there was on the bench...yes I know he had some TOs....but I would have felt better about losing with him in the game....

vandalzag
02-26-2017, 01:06 PM
Nah the biggest mishap was Few forgetting McClellan was still on the team. And no, Stepp missed that shot but he's still an all time fave of mine. Meech hit a huge shot, yadda yadda. You get the picture you're striking an obstinate pose.
Not obstinate (you may want to take a look in the mirror on that one) I just do not like laying the blame for a loss on one player or play. Too many moving parts and failed plays to go around. Leaving EMAC on the bench was a killer but Kylew going MIA had way more impact on the game.

jazzdelmar
02-26-2017, 01:13 PM
Not obstinate (you may want to take a look in the mirror on that one) I just do not like laying the blame for a loss on one player or play. Too many moving parts and failed plays to go around. Leaving EMAC on the bench was a killer but Kylew going MIA had way more impact on the game.

No argument there. But there is a hierarchy of missteps.

Zagricultural
02-26-2017, 01:28 PM
This is ridiculous. Josh is an integral part of the team, and we'll come back stronger because of this. I'm sad, but also a little relieved we won't be going in undefeated. Go Zags!

MickMick
02-26-2017, 02:56 PM
Zag fans that believe Josh is our savior:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ

DixieZag
02-26-2017, 04:48 PM
Dixie you forgot the most basic thing: POOR DEFENSE. It collapsed. There's no spin on that.
Perhaps the turnovers in the last 2 mins that were converted to BYU points might Perk (play on words) your interest as well.

I am not as versed in evaluating defensive play, but I do agree with you that the entire reason to work to have an elite defense is to survive nights like this. But, I do recall Mika hitting some extremely tough shots, and I remember a heartbreaking airball 3 pter fall n the lap of a guy for a lay-up.

Mika is the same type of player that we'll see in any of the 1-4 seeds. Tonight he played as well as he can (which is pretty well). I really think we were oddly gassed with 5:00 left, did you sense that and do you put any defensive lapses on that?

And, the second thing I noted was Perkins is struggling, has been for a while (can he not see the out of bounds lines? Glasses?), so I don't need any interests perked. I think Few needs a long sit-down with Josh, get him centered on doing 3 simple things perfectly, and only when that's smooth again, grow it outward. Lots of athletes have done amazing things by having a 3-4 "simple" skill set done perfectly. "Simplify" would be the word of the week.

hooter73
02-26-2017, 07:25 PM
Flash and fancy is not the same as good decisions. Perkins is, and has always been a high risk, high reward player. When it works, we praise him, when it doesn't, well his happens. We wanted the top fifty type players, this is what you get more often than not. The big time programs know it and know how to work with it, we don't yet.

Zagceo
02-26-2017, 07:31 PM
I've look at most of the post game material and the one voice missing.....our point guard.

Did I miss his quotes?

LongIslandZagFan
02-26-2017, 08:33 PM
Worst thing about Perkins being a RS Sophomore is two more years of Jazz and Spy attacking him.

LongIslandZagFan
02-26-2017, 08:35 PM
Zag fans that believe Josh is our savior:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ

Don't think he is our savior... but he takes almost as much abuse from some on this board as meech did. JMHO... doesn't show much class attacking a college kid.

gonzagafan62
02-26-2017, 08:35 PM
Worst thing about Perkins being a RS Sophomore is two more years of Jazz and Spy attacking him.

What's sad is he was very instrumental in WCC tourney and NCAA tourney last year with eMac. Very big reason why we won those games. Yet everyone only wants to talk cuse and BYU. Btw, Perkins was the one that made the big play on collinsworth to sinch up the WCC championship in Provo too haha.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 08:53 PM
Don't think he is our savior... but he takes almost as much abuse from some on this board as meech did. JMHO... doesn't show much class attacking a college kid.

Yep. Wonder which poster was the person screaming at him in the kennel?

vandalzag
02-27-2017, 07:01 AM
What's sad is he was very instrumental in WCC tourney and NCAA tourney last year with eMac. Very big reason why we won those games. Yet everyone only wants to talk cuse and BYU. Btw, Perkins was the one that made the big play on collinsworth to sinch up the WCC championship in Provo too haha.

It's not everyone who wants to do this just a few who need to have somebody to direct their "support" towards.

GoZags
02-27-2017, 07:51 AM
Worst thing about Perkins being a RS Sophomore is two more years of Jazz and Spy attacking him.

I have to agree with you LIZF.

It's interesting to note that these two vocal critics have zero ties to Gonzaga .... other than their televisions, computers and message boards. Sad.

ZagWhoShotLibertyValance
02-27-2017, 08:14 AM
Title of thread is Few's problem. And it is. If you avoid the rhetoric (and the ad homs of the two previous posters) it is pretty obvious JP has some development to do. It wouldn't shock me to no end if he spends a R/S year to transfer else. The simple reason JPs turnover number is low this year is that Nigel handling ball so much. JP is careless and this is Few's problem. If Nigel leaves who is the primary ballhandler? Is it Josh? Well, that is Few's problem. Insulting Jazz because he didn't go to Gonzaga seems pretty desperate.

On the whole, we lost as we win; as a team. It was mortifying. But it leaves the question as to next year's primary ballhandler. Hope Nigel stays. Then we can transition to a different PG while JP plays a huge role, but as the 2.

jazzdelmar
02-27-2017, 08:15 AM
I have to agree with you LIZF.

It's interesting to note that these two vocal critics have zero ties to Gonzaga .... other than their televisions, computers and message boards. Sad.


What a small minded thing to say. Disappointing. You're better than that.

TexasZagFan
02-27-2017, 08:17 AM
Title of thread is Few's problem. And it is. If you avoid the rhetoric (and the ad homs of the two previous posters) it is pretty obvious JP has some development to do. It wouldn't shock me to no end if he spends a R/S year to transfer else. The simple reason JPs turnover number is low this year is that Nigel handling ball so much. JP is careless and this is Few's problem. If Nigel leaves who is the primary ballhandler? Is it Josh? Well, that is Few's problem. Insulting Jazz because he didn't go to Gonzaga seems pretty desperate.

On the whole, we lost as we win; as a team. It was mortifying. But it leaves the question as to next year's primary ballhandler. Hope Nigel stays. Then we can transition to a different PG while JP plays a huge role, but as the 2.

Sorry, but JP already burned his RS, thanks to Georgia.

meadgrad02
02-27-2017, 08:17 AM
Jesse Wade?

IowaSERE
02-27-2017, 08:32 AM
Sorry, but JP already burned his RS, thanks to Georgia.

Wasn't that considered a medical redshirt?

LongIslandZagFan
02-27-2017, 08:34 AM
Title of thread is Few's problem. And it is. If you avoid the rhetoric (and the ad homs of the two previous posters) it is pretty obvious JP has some development to do. It wouldn't shock me to no end if he spends a R/S year to transfer else. The simple reason JPs turnover number is low this year is that Nigel handling ball so much. JP is careless and this is Few's problem. If Nigel leaves who is the primary ballhandler? Is it Josh? Well, that is Few's problem. Insulting Jazz because he didn't go to Gonzaga seems pretty desperate.

On the whole, we lost as we win; as a team. It was mortifying. But it leaves the question as to next year's primary ballhandler. Hope Nigel stays. Then we can transition to a different PG while JP plays a huge role, but as the 2.

You see, that would work if they talked about development. They didn't. They said he wasn't a PG and he is a problem. Nothing constructive about that. Just an attack on him. Sorry if you don't like that being pointed out. Jazz could easily have titled the thread "Josh still needs more development" as opposed to calling him a problem. Same point is being made, assuming that is actually what they were thinking. JMHO, based on past attacks on other players, I'd suspect they are not thinking that way. They are thinking he needs to go... because he is a "problem".

gonzagafan62
02-27-2017, 08:47 AM
I have to agree with you LIZF.

It's interesting to note that these two vocal critics have zero ties to Gonzaga .... other than their televisions, computers and message boards. Sad.

I agree with jazz. I have no ties either .... that's a bit harsh!

EDIT: we should all be able to voice our opinions whether people like it or not .... silly to even bring that up

MDABE80
02-27-2017, 08:48 AM
Everything has been said already. Hate this veering off to beat a kid up. OK...he's not a great ball handler. We've got that. He's a good shooter. We know! The end of this thread soon?? Josh has two more full years to work on his game.. Nothing more to say. Lot's more banter and lots more nasty talk? What's the point of this continued assault on the kid??

Zags11
02-27-2017, 08:55 AM
Everything has been said already. Hate this veering off to beat a kid up. OK...he's not a great ball handler. We've got that. He's a good shooter. We know! The end of this thread soon?? Josh has two more full years to work on his game.. Nothing more to say. Lot's more banter and lots more nasty talk? What's the point of this continued assault on the kid??

People feel good to rag on a kid? Idk. It's pointless to keep attacking a kid. Issue is Perkins obviously rubs some ppl the wrong way. It is obvious to me. Shows in this thread and on senior night.

TexasZagFan
02-27-2017, 09:08 AM
Everything has been said already. Hate this veering off to beat a kid up. OK...he's not a great ball handler. We've got that. He's a good shooter. We know! The end of this thread soon?? Josh has two more full years to work on his game.. Nothing more to say. Lot's more banter and lots more nasty talk? What's the point of this continued assault on the kid??

JP's development translates closely to the development of Tim Hardaway. As a freshman, he had trouble adapting to the disciplined style of Don Haskins. He kept working at it, by the time he was a senior, he had the ball in his hands 80% of the time. And then you should have heard the howls from Warrior fans when they drafted him #1. Shortly after, during a visit to my sister in Oakland, I told them you'll love the guy after a couple of months.

Josh is learning, mostly the hard way, that good decisions on the court are better for the team than the occasional flashy play that makes the fans ooh and ahh.

ProVeeZag
02-27-2017, 09:09 AM
Here's post #151 to this thread. Can we get it to #200 by the end of the day?

ProVeeZag
02-27-2017, 09:14 AM
JP's development translates closely to the development of Tim Hardaway. As a freshman, he had trouble adapting to the disciplined style of Don Haskins. He kept working at it, by the time he was a senior, he had the ball in his hands 80% of the time. And then you should have heard the howls from Warrior fans when they drafted him #1. Shortly after, during a visit to my sister in Oakland, I told them you'll love the guy after a couple of months.

Josh is learning, mostly the hard way, that good decisions on the court are better for the team than the occasional flashy play that makes the fans ooh and ahh.

JP has miles and miles to go to mirror the trajectory of Tim Hardaway. How do you "coach out" the "flashy play" that defines his game? It is what it is, take the good with the bad. It's up to Josh at this point.

mtnZag
02-27-2017, 09:23 AM
Ok, so he didn't lose the game but those turnovers when it was a 2 point game did not help!
We have proven point guard in NGW, don't we?
Why not have our best PG handling the ball then?
Losing to BYU is what hurts the most!

GoZags
02-27-2017, 09:38 AM
What a small minded thing to say. Disappointing. You're better than that.

Don't disagree but can say precisely the same thing about your ability to find a scapegoat on each and every Gonzaga team since Dickau graduated. "Small minded". "Disappointing". And "you're better than that".

jazzdelmar
02-27-2017, 09:40 AM
Don't disagree but can say precisely the same thing about your ability to find a scapegoat on each and every Gonzaga team. "Small minded". "Disappointing". And "you're better than that".

Fair enough........it's a draw.........let's kill this damn thread then.

gueastcoast
02-27-2017, 09:42 AM
I have little to add that hasn't already been said, but would like to register a vote in favor of a) not invoking a poster's ties to the university or lack thereof as a meaningful consideration in assessing his or her comments and b) erring on the side of gentleness when criticizing the play or decision-making of what are still very young men.

Josh had a bad game, and has had a bad stretch. It happens. We're 29-1 and he's been a solid contributor to that stellar record, which is good enough for me.

One last observation: while Josh's play in the last 90 seconds of the BYU game isn't going to make anyone's highlight reel, at least he had the ball in his hands. At least as it appeared to me (and it was late out here), I didn't see guys clamoring for the ball as we tightened up at the end.

cggonzaga
02-27-2017, 09:47 AM
JP's development translates closely to the development of Tim Hardaway. As a freshman, he had trouble adapting to the disciplined style of Don Haskins. He kept working at it, by the time he was a senior, he had the ball in his hands 80% of the time. And then you should have heard the howls from Warrior fans when they drafted him #1. Shortly after, during a visit to my sister in Oakland, I told them you'll love the guy after a couple of months.

Josh is learning, mostly the hard way, that good decisions on the court are better for the team than the occasional flashy play that makes the fans ooh and ahh.

Excellent post TZF. Some fans around here have a hard time understanding that players get better and learn from their mistakes and shortcomings. If Josh is the kind of kid I think he is, he'll become a better player because of what happened Saturday night.

Virginia Zags Fan
02-27-2017, 09:51 AM
I have little to add that hasn't already been said, but would like to register a vote in favor of a) not invoking a poster's ties to the university or lack thereof as a meaningful consideration in assessing his or her comments and b) erring on the side of gentleness when criticizing the play or decision-making of what are still very young men.
.

This! Well said and agree 100% Great way to end this thread.

TexasZagFan
02-27-2017, 09:53 AM
I have little to add that hasn't already been said, but would like to register a vote in favor of a) not invoking a poster's ties to the university or lack thereof as a meaningful consideration in assessing his or her comments and b) erring on the side of gentleness when criticizing the play or decision-making of what are still very young men.

Josh had a bad game, and has had a bad stretch. It happens. We're 29-1 and he's been a solid contributor to that stellar record, which is good enough for me.

One last observation: while Josh's play in the last 90 seconds of the BYU game isn't going to make anyone's highlight reel, at least he had the ball in his hands. At least as it appeared to me (and it was late out here), I didn't see guys clamoring for the ball as we tightened up at the end.

I would have loved for Shem to show a royal case of the jaws and angrily tell his guards to "feed me the damn ball...it's Senior Night, and my parents didn't come all the way from Poland to see you guys ignore me!!!"

thespywhozaggedme
02-27-2017, 09:54 AM
Worst thing about Perkins being a RS Sophomore is two more years of Jazz and Spy attacking him.

Where have I ever "attacked" him?