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View Full Version : BYU in Spokane is the Zags' kryrponite - OFFICIAL POST GAME THREAD



seacatfan
02-25-2017, 08:28 PM
3 years in a row? Seriously?

U Zig, I Zag
02-25-2017, 08:29 PM
Can't really explain it.

Pargo the Destroyer
02-25-2017, 08:33 PM
Can't really explain it.

I can. Dont turn the ball over 3 times on your last 3 possessions of the game Josh. Thats a start.

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 08:34 PM
I can. Dont turn the ball over 3 times on your last 3 possessions of the game Josh. Thats a start.

So explain the 16 point lead that disappeared or does those minutes not matter

caduceus
02-25-2017, 08:34 PM
A strong start, which then turned into:

http://i.imgur.com/zr9Ox.gif

U Zig, I Zag
02-25-2017, 08:34 PM
I mean collectively, playing that poorly against the same team at home 3 years in a row.

Perhaps a blessing, this one. The one last year might have been. That team came together and got into the tourney and played well.

strikenowhere
02-25-2017, 08:35 PM
What a damn choke job

75Zag
02-25-2017, 08:35 PM
Does UCLA move to a 1 seed? They looked amazing against AZ.

Go Bulldogs!

jayray
02-25-2017, 08:35 PM
I can. Dont turn the ball over 3 times on your last 3 possessions of the game Josh. Thats a start.

This. What the heck. Give the ball to NG please. And why did the stop giving the ball to Shem the 2nd half?

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 08:36 PM
I mean collectively, playing that poorly against the same team at home 3 years in a row.

Perhaps a blessing, this one. The one last year might have been. That team came together and got into the tourney and played well.

Does it become extra fodder for confidence toward byu and an underlining concern by zags psychologically?

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 08:36 PM
Give Mark Few a chance to choke at something and he will do it.

Absolutely pathetic display by Gonzaga. Missed FTs and refusing to fn block out and giving up rebound after rebound cost us the game..

Also just let BYU run down the play clock without putting pressure on the ball the last 7 minutes of the game.. not sure Mark Few will ever handle pressure.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:36 PM
Three years in a row they have beaten us at home.
Our free-throw shooting was a really atrocious.
Josh ended the game with three straight turnovers within 20 seconds.
BYU is a bunch of thug's, and officiating was terrible.

drvenkman05
02-25-2017, 08:36 PM
We changed from a balanced attack to pound it inside. I can't imagine that is all on the players....


So explain the 16 point lead that disappeared or does those minutes not matter

Mantua
02-25-2017, 08:37 PM
Is it likely St. Mary's get BYU in the WCC Tournament?

katman50
02-25-2017, 08:37 PM
The Zags had absolutely no answer for Mika. I hate to say it, but that guy is a warrior. Also, for the most part they were unable to get the ball into Karno and Collins. When they did get it, were ineffective. Careless turnovers at the end and guys, you gotta make your free throws. A painful loss, but I hope the boys come out stronger after this disappointing loss.

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 08:37 PM
Is it likely St. Mary's get BYU in the WCC Tournament?

Yep too bad as I would love to meet them again

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 08:38 PM
This. What the heck. Give the ball to NG please. And why did the stop giving the ball to Shem the 2nd half?

Sorry this has absolutely nothing to do with the loss. We refuse to adjust .. we lost Bc Mark Few did nothing different to stop Mika and did absolutely nothing different to get easy looks at the bucket

We refused to block out, and guard Mika. We deserved to lose.

zagbeliever
02-25-2017, 08:38 PM
I really hate BYU for a number of reasons among which is their unfriendly fans in Vegas but mostly for the team's arrogance. I don't know what the check happened tonight but I love my ZAGS and feel for them

webspinnre
02-25-2017, 08:38 PM
I have zero desire to meet them again. Hate playing them, knowing the hacking is coming.

strikenowhere
02-25-2017, 08:38 PM
Missed free throws and stupid turnovers

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:39 PM
Shem start of the game on fire and then barely got any touches in the second half.
Did Silas even score?
The heaters across the nation I could have a field day with this score. Ugh

scott257
02-25-2017, 08:39 PM
Really was a perfect storm, bad refs, bad free throw shooting, no outside shooting, and we didn't take care of the ball. If we were playing a good team tonight we would have been blown out.

drvenkman05
02-25-2017, 08:39 PM
Our guards also refused to shoot. I can't imagine that was JUST a decision by the players....


Sorry this has absolutely nothing to do with the loss. We refuse to adjust .. we lost Bc Mark Few did nothing different to stop Mika and did absolutely nothing different to get easy looks at the bucket

We refused to block out, and guard Mika. We deserved to lose.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:40 PM
Really was a perfect storm, bad refs, bad free throw shooting, no outside shooting, and we didn't take care of the ball. If we were playing a good team tonight we would have been blown out.

Yeah, hopefully we got this craptastic game out of the way and not in March madness.

SunDevilGolfZag
02-25-2017, 08:40 PM
Top teams make free throws to bail themselves out on nights when anyone in the top 50 could have beat them

theCOG
02-25-2017, 08:41 PM
Every once in a while we give one of the underachieving failures of a program in the WCC a fleeting moment of relevance. Kinda like the make a wish foundation. It was BYU's turn tonight.

Mantua
02-25-2017, 08:41 PM
If a game like that had to happen, this is a better time than any of the games ahead of us.

katman50
02-25-2017, 08:41 PM
Don't think you can blame it on the officiating. That is many times a convenient excuse. Can't stand BYU, but they are a tough team. No answer for Mika and Shem and Collins had poor games. Costly turnovers in crunch time. Hopefully the boys rebound from this in a positive way.

jazzdelmar
02-25-2017, 08:41 PM
Does UCLA move to a 1 seed? They looked amazing against AZ.

Go Bulldogs!

Yup. Zags to a 2 and drop to 4-5 in rankings.

Zagceo
02-25-2017, 08:42 PM
If Few has any clout....needs to eliminate BYU senior night asap

caduceus
02-25-2017, 08:42 PM
It's a good teaching moment. We've already clinched the WCC. Better to lose now than any other time, really. The pressure of "unbeaten" is now off. Not to mention the coaching points to get out of the way before the start of post season. I'm sad they lost, but at this point the benefits just might outweigh the drawbacks.

katman50
02-25-2017, 08:42 PM
Sorry this has absolutely nothing to do with the loss. We refuse to adjust .. we lost Bc Mark Few did nothing different to stop Mika and did absolutely nothing different to get easy looks at the bucket

We refused to block out, and guard Mika. We deserved to lose.

Yep!

drvenkman05
02-25-2017, 08:42 PM
Top teams also get their guards to the FT line. Lots of hacks without a whistle isn't something you see in the Big 12, ACC, SEC, etc.


Top teams make free throws to bail themselves out on nights when anyone in the top 50 could have beat them

ProVeeZag
02-25-2017, 08:43 PM
Shem start of the game on fire and then barely got any touches in the second half.
Did Silas even score?
The heaters across the nation I could have a field day with this score. Ugh

Will be an interesting poll to see on Monday ... another re-jiggering at the top.

sylean
02-25-2017, 08:43 PM
I like it....we give them a make a wish donation....they better not come back for seconds...

webspinnre
02-25-2017, 08:44 PM
If Few has any clout....needs to eliminate BYU senior night asap

He has zero influence on this. It's a WCC scheduling thing.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:44 PM
Don't think you can blame it on the officiating. That is many times a convenient excuse. Can't stand BYU, but they are a tough team. No answer for Mika and Shem and Collins had poor games. Costly turnovers in crunch time. Hopefully the boys rebound from this in a positive way.

Yeah, the officiating sucked but we already knew that before the game started. The referees did not make us miss 15 free throws.

krozman
02-25-2017, 08:45 PM
Melt down all you want zag fans. They lost this because they played terrible. It wasn't refs or BYU or anything that we wont encounter on any other NCAA tourney game. GU plays like that again and we're gone for the season.

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 08:45 PM
A chance at history.. and this is how we go about it?

I knew it. I can't fathom how we can allow one guy to dominate us and do absolutely nothing different to stop it..

Refused to block out. Refused to guard Mika. Refused to change up the offense.. if NWG doesn't score on an ISO in the clutch, we have nothing for "must have" scoring situations

So much talent, a chance at history, a #1 ranking, and more importantly SEED (which believe it or not, is likely gone) and as always, we lay an egg.

The talent difference between these 2 teams, AND given the fact we are at HOME.. makes this loss inexcusable.


Mark Few will just never figure out how to handle pressure situations, which is exactly why we will fail in March again.

Birddog
02-25-2017, 08:46 PM
Missed shots from behind the lines, both free throw line (55.2%)and 3 point line (18.8%). They were terrible.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400915890

They probably drop to a 2 seed.

Mantua
02-25-2017, 08:47 PM
It's a good teaching moment. We've already clinched the WCC. Better to lose now than any other time, really. The pressure of "unbeaten" is now off. Not to mention the coaching points to get out of the way before the start of post season. I'm sad they lost, but at this point the benefits just might outweigh the drawbacks.

I agree. They haven't been as sharp as they were before the LMU game. They need some rest without all the pressure. Any chance Tillie will be back soon?

Zag4Hire
02-25-2017, 08:47 PM
A chance at history.. and this is how we go about it?

I knew it. I can't fathom how we can allow one guy to dominate us and do absolutely nothing different to stop it..

Refused to block out. Refused to guard Mika. Refused to change up the offense.. if NWG doesn't score on an ISO in the clutch, we have nothing for "must have" scoring situations

So much talent, a chance at history, a #1 ranking, and more importantly SEED (which believe it or not, is likely gone) and as always, we lay an egg.


Mark Few will just never figure out how to handle pressure situations, which is exactly why we will fail in March again.

No.

23dpg
02-25-2017, 08:48 PM
A chance at history.. and this is how we go about it?

I knew it. I can't fathom how we can allow one guy to dominate us and do absolutely nothing different to stop it..

Refused to block out. Refused to guard Mika. Refused to change up the offense.. if NWG doesn't score on an ISO in the clutch, we have nothing for "must have" scoring situations

So much talent, a chance at history, a #1 ranking, and more importantly SEED (which believe it or not, is likely gone) and as always, we lay an egg.


Mark Few will just never figure out how to handle pressure situations, which is exactly why we will fail in March again.

All this winning has kept the trolls away. Welcome back.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-25-2017, 08:48 PM
As a die hard fan, I definitely felt myself tightening up as game stayed close under 5 minutes. My guess is the players and coaches did too though they can't admit it. Hopefully this will release some pressure and allow the entire team to play loose more relaxed. Rather a loss now and a taste of what a close game feels like for first time in months then in NCAA tourney, when the spotlight is brighter.

As for the game, X's and O's wise, Zags didn't seem to make many adjustments. May be way off base here but it sure felt like coaches were just watching to see how the game would play out rather than making any tactical moves (besides switching JWIII onto Mika) to impose their will on the game and help the players succeed. Dave Rose sure made adjustments, especially letting the time tick down and only attacking at 10 second mark for the last 4-5 possessions.

Zag players missed a lot of free throws and didn't make clutch shots in the homestretch, but the coaches didn't step up at crunch time either.

seacatfan
02-25-2017, 08:49 PM
Does UCLA move to a 1 seed? They looked amazing against AZ.

Go Bulldogs!

Do they leap frog Oregon? UCLA is still only in 3rd place in the Pac 12, not sure how that makes them a #1 seed. They went 2-2 in games against Oregon and Arizona this year, so they really didn't distinguish themselves there at all. That big win over Kentucky early in the year lost some of its luster as the year went on.

Ezag
02-25-2017, 08:49 PM
At least the pressure's off

Sarenyon
02-25-2017, 08:50 PM
All this winning has kept the trolls away. Welcome back.

Dang, I was thinking the same thing... I haven't heard a peep from uZiGiZaG in an age... guess what, I guess he is only a foul weather poster.

CDC84
02-25-2017, 08:52 PM
The game reminded me of just about every loss that an unbeaten team has sustained going into mid to late February. Just as scott257 says, it was the perfect storm of events. There wasn't a player on the team who I can say played a good game.

The only thing that we did learn is that Josh Perkins is not the guy we want handling the ball in crunch time. He continues to have the worst handle of any GU guard that Few has coached. I don't pin the loss on him - every guy played his part in the loss - but it is a lesson to be learned for March.

I wish this loss would've happened in the WCC tournament. It's a shame that the seniors had to go out with a loss on senior night. Plus, the team could say that they went unbeaten in the regular season. But that's just the way it goes.

The team now has a whole week to get rest and get re-energized for the WCC tourney. Hopefully Tillie will be back. It is crucially important that the team win the league tourney so at the very worst they can get a 2 seed out west. I am almost certain that will happen if the Zags wins out. The committee is not going to severely punish them for one loss.

TexasZagFan
02-25-2017, 08:52 PM
The bubble is popped.

We lose to a team that lost to a team that we defeated two days ago by 58 freaking points.

BYU took it from us tonight. There should be more questions in Provo than Spokane. Savor it BYU, you might be going to the NIT.

seacatfan
02-25-2017, 08:53 PM
All this winning has kept the trolls away. Welcome back.

No kidding. Few went from being the best coach in the country to one of the worst awfully quick there from the sounds of it.

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 08:53 PM
Dang, I was thinking the same thing... I haven't heard a peep from uZiGiZaG in an age... guess what, I guess he is only a foul weather poster.

Yeah.. I guess so. That makes so much sense.. don't try to explain that logic ..

Also, tends to be the cop out when cold hard facts are thrown at you, ay?

kitzbuel
02-25-2017, 08:54 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ite8ByRWB2M/TIQ4U50ewZI/AAAAAAAAAHA/iM_ReY0B0-8/s1600/CautionAxeGrinding.jpg

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
WHy was this thread moved? Pisses me off...nothing out of line posted here. Come on Mods, many longstanding faithful followers here. What's with the heavy handed moderating on this thread? Put it back on Men's Basketball page.

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 08:59 PM
WHy was this thread moved? Pisses me off...nothing out of line posted here. Come on Mods, many longstanding faithful followers here. What's with the heavy handed moderating on this thread? Put it back on Men's Basketball page.

It wasn't moved two threads were merged. And it is on the front page.

MontanaCoyote
02-25-2017, 08:59 PM
[QUOTE=TexasZagFan;1291538]The bubble is popped.

We lose to a team that lost to a team that we defeated two days ago by 58 freaking points.

BYU took it from us tonight. There should be more questions in Provo than Spokane. Savor it BYU, you might be going to the NIT.[/QUOTE

Move On. Shake it off. And BACK THE BOYS!

Move on

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 09:00 PM
The bubble is popped.

We lose to a team that lost to a team that we defeated two days ago by 58 freaking points.

BYU took it from us tonight. There should be more questions in Provo than Spokane. Savor it BYU, you might be going to the NIT.

Sorry.. but this game was wayyyyy more than that, no matter how hard you try to act like it's just another game, another night of college basketball, etc

History. Gone. Choked. Period.

TexasZag
02-25-2017, 09:01 PM
Yep too bad as I would love to meet them again

Who's to say we won't? They have reason to be both motivated(having been embarrassed by SMC at home) and confident (having just beaten the #1 on their own floor). The WCC tourney could get interesting.

jazzdelmar
02-25-2017, 09:03 PM
Bye bye #1 seed. Implications.

CDC84
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
A really worry going into March is having a power forward and center as talented as JWIII and Karno who just cannot hit their free throws. It's a real concern. I could live with one of them having foul shooting problems, but both of them sucking is really difficult....especially when both of your freshmen big guys off the pine are freshmen.

gonzagafan62
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
Choke..... most overused and loosely thrown around word of all time.

drvenkman05
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
No other top team in the country would put-up with this: joke reffing and same final team for three years in the row. Honestly, how often does Few get a T? Watch the last WVU at KU game and tell me that looks anything like what we get year in and year out. We (and the rest of the WCC) deserve better.


Sorry.. but this game was wayyyyy more than that, no matter how hard you try to act like it's just another game, another night of college basketball, etc

History. Gone. Choked. Period.

Ezag
02-25-2017, 09:05 PM
Never thought this team would cave into the pressure

CDC84
02-25-2017, 09:05 PM
I am going to add this again since the post game thread got mysteriously merged into this one:

The game reminded me of just about every loss that an unbeaten team has sustained going into mid to late February. Just as scott257 says, it was the perfect storm of events. There wasn't a player on the team who I can say played a good game.

The only thing that we did learn is that Josh Perkins is not the guy we want handling the ball in crunch time. He continues to have the worst handle of any GU guard that Few has coached. I don't pin the loss on him - every guy played his part in the loss - but it is a lesson to be learned for March.

I wish this loss would've happened in the WCC tournament. It's a shame that the seniors had to go out with a loss on senior night. Plus, the team could say that they went unbeaten in the regular season. But that's just the way it goes.

The team now has a whole week to get rest and get re-energized for the WCC tourney. Hopefully Tillie will be back. It is crucially important that the team win the league tourney so at the very worst they can get a 2 seed out west. I am almost certain that will happen if the Zags wins out. The committee is not going to severely punish them for one loss.

zagsfanforlife
02-25-2017, 09:05 PM
Never thought this team would cave into the pressure

Me neither. Thought the exact opposite

uZiGiZaG
02-25-2017, 09:06 PM
Never thought this team would cave into the pressure

Starts at the top.

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 09:07 PM
Starts at the top.

Go back to your cave and chew a little bit on your over the top negativity....zags are 29-1

Ekrub
02-25-2017, 09:08 PM
Starts at the top.

Players play for coaches, not the school. Few has his faults, but what do you recommend? Firing him? This all goes bye-bye if that happens.

Zagger14
02-25-2017, 09:09 PM
Yup. Zags to a 2 and drop to 4-5 in rankings.


I wouldn't be shocked if we are #3 seed.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-25-2017, 09:12 PM
Perkins with 0 assists and 6 TO's vs an underwhelming defensive team..Ouch

No minutes played stats showing on ESPN site, but it sure feels like Melson didn't play much. Come on Silas, this team needs you....no time to disappear and become tentative #ZagUp. Same to you coaches...make some in-game adjustments!

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 09:14 PM
Perkins with 0 assists and 6 TO's vs an underwhelming defensive team..Ouch

No minutes played stats showing on ESPN site, but it sure feels like Melson didn't play much. Come on Silas, this team needs you....no time to disappear and become tentative #ZagUp. Same to you coaches...make some in-game adjustments!

Goss with more turnovers than assist and a bad shooting night as well

Silas was invisible tonight

Mathews only guard to really show up

Zag4Hire
02-25-2017, 09:16 PM
Bye bye #1 seed. Implications.

That didn't end well either so not saying much. The team had the cards play out in their favor the past 2 years and couldn't cash in. It's how other perform in your bracket.

These guys would do better with a chip on their shoulder.

VinnyZag
02-25-2017, 09:18 PM
I can. Dont turn the ball over 3 times on your last 3 possessions of the game Josh. Thats a start.

It's easy to focus on those three offensive possessions, but to me they lost because they had their worst defensive game in a long time. No pressure on the perimeter, Mika got to shoot practice jumpers all night (including on the most important defensive possession of the game) and then Haws went all Jimmer on them.

This was uncharacteristic. Haven't seen such a poor defensive effort all year.

VinnyZag
02-25-2017, 09:19 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if we are #3 seed.

Let's not overreact, people.

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 09:20 PM
Worst three point shooting since UCLA in 2015. Ouch

CDC84
02-25-2017, 09:20 PM
One of the criticisms of this team is that it doesn't have a legit, athletic, 6-5 or 6-6 scoring small forward to go to in crunch time. Unless you have Derrick Rose or some sort of elite, transcendent PG, many feel it's kind of hard for the PG to be "that guy."

Was that possibly an issue in this game?? Might have such a player allowed GU to escape with a W despite playing poorly?

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 09:23 PM
One of the criticisms of this team is that it doesn't have a legit, athletic, 6-5 or 6-6 scoring small forward to go to in crunch time. Unless you have Derrick Rose or some sort of elite, transcendent PG, many feel it's kind of hard for the PG to be "that guy."

Was that possibly an issue in this game?? Might have such a player allowed GU to escape with a W despite playing poorly?

We missed tille tonight. But we also had advantages that simply did not materialize

Like goss posting up emery 3 or 4 times and coming up empty

Zagceo
02-25-2017, 09:24 PM
Przemek 4-6 why did we stop feeding him?

Hoopaholic
02-25-2017, 09:27 PM
Przemek 4-6 why did we stop feeding him?

Went away from game plan. Only 2 touches for shot opportunities

Zagger14
02-25-2017, 09:28 PM
How is it overreacting? This team has beaten one rank team since December. They can easily drop far.

gonzagafan62
02-25-2017, 09:32 PM
How is it overreacting? This team has beaten one rank team since December. They can easily drop far.

Blah blah blah.... one ranked team yet we will school all kinds of major teams that beat ranked teams In tourney like we always di. Good grief

CDC84
02-25-2017, 09:33 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if we are #3 seed.

I would be very surprised if this happens. I know at least two analysts who feel that Gonzaga is going to get a one seed even with 1 loss. The fact that the loss happened to BYU and not USD helps some. I think it will be a one or a two out west unless they drop another game. And if they drop another game before the NCAA's, they are reasons for concern.

eastsideballer
02-25-2017, 09:33 PM
IMHO I think this lost was the best thing that could have happened to GU. Getting that loss out of the way now will only help them in the tourney.

MDABE80
02-25-2017, 09:38 PM
Does UCLA move to a 1 seed? They looked amazing against AZ.

Go Bulldogs!

I'd be surprised if Nova doesn't retake the no 1 spot in the polls and UCL gets a number 1 seed in the west. BUT we win the tournament for the league, others will lose in theirs. We may yet return to a no 1 position in all measures. Key to everything is to win. We win and we'll be fine. DEFENSE!

thespywhozaggedme
02-25-2017, 09:41 PM
Went away from game plan. Only 2 touches for shot opportunities

Yes, this is a glaring fact that seems to be very under reported in our post game threats. Shem was on fire to start the game and then we completely went away from them for the next 35 minutes. Makes zero sense.

MontanaCoyote
02-25-2017, 09:50 PM
Was that little red headed guy left too open too often?

Nevada Don
02-25-2017, 09:50 PM
Sorry about the loss tonight GU people.
What a GREAT YEAR so far !!
Coaches and Players are starting anew tomorrow. I hope all you guys are all onboard too. The goal and the dream is still in sight. Good Luck !!
Don

MontanaCoyote
02-25-2017, 09:51 PM
IMHO I think this lost was the best thing that could have happened to GU. Getting that loss out of the way now will only help them in the tourney.

May very well prove to be the case. It's certainly happened before.

U Zig, I Zag
02-25-2017, 10:13 PM
I am of the opinion that this can only help. 1,2 seed, who cares. Maybe they play looser being the 2. Let UCLA or Oregon get knocked off by an 8/9.

I think we can win some games in the tourney but FTs and sloppy guard play might doom us. NWG is and can be great, but it's not enough. I like Josh, but he just needs to dial it back. just play straight up!!! Stop the crossovers, stop driving into ####. Play square shouldered basketball. Tight dribbling, heads up ball. #### the no look passes and ####. Who the hell cares about that? Just play clean, heady ball.

CDC84
02-25-2017, 10:25 PM
Seth Davis tweeted that GU is still a one seed.

Again, I think the key thing is just staying out west as a one or a two. That's under GU's control.

ZagsGoZags
02-25-2017, 11:24 PM
ok, so we are human
the positives may outweigh the negatives if the team sees clearly that in their first close game for two months
they did not play well in a close game.
The team, coaches, players and fans have all wondered if we were 'battle hardened' not sharp from not
having close games. If having close games is good, or even necessary, to best prepare for the Dance, OK we got one.
Champions have to learn to win most of their close games.
It is also a good thing to end the never ending hype.
Our players see and feel they are fallible.
In the traditional sense this game did not have much on the line, we were already in the playoffs.
We have needed to feel tested and have said so. We got what we wished for. Could easily be a good thing.
The lucky star burned out falling through the atmosphere.
We finally have a measuring stick that is meaningful and realistic.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 12:26 AM
So explain the 16 point lead that disappeared or does those minutes not matter

Always the kids.

DixieZag
02-26-2017, 01:53 AM
The bagging on Few on the "choke" thing is tired.

No adult thinks they excel in each and every aspect of their profession, even the greatest will readily admit their weaknesses.

Few gets a little tight end of game, it's contagious to the players (he's a sorta' parent-figure and kids pick up on all parent fear).

However, every single person bagging on him about this true weakness (maddening as it is) should also be forced to acknowledge that his prep and calm/cool has led to countless big games that never got close. I will point to Utah last year, a team we had no real right/reason to beat 11 versus 3?

I don't know what goes on in the locker room, don't know what Few says to the kids, but in my mind, what I'd want him to be saying tonight is: "I didn't do you guys many favors, should've made more adjustments, I got a little tight, this is on me. But, I believe in you guys more than you know, and lets take this and pledge to each other that when we're in a close game in the tournament, we may go down, but we're going down playing as aggressive and confident as possible. Too many didn't appear to want the ball. I want you to want it and take those good shots, miss or make.

"Now - you get the play free and loose. The entire country now thinks that this is normal Zags and we'll fold in a tight game in the tourney. So, nothing to lose, go down fighting like hell, if we lose we lose, but it won't be b/c we played tentative, starting with me."

That would be my approach, which is worth the amount you paid to read this.

Alum08
02-26-2017, 07:24 AM
I would've liked to have seen Collins in the second half a little more. Karno was gassed at the end of the game and our interior defense was non-existent. Wonder if Few felt the pressure to keep Karno in on senior night in front of his parents. I hope that wasn't the case but it's understandable. Collins was our best rebounder tonight. When him and JWill3 are playing together they OWN the boards. Would've shifted at least two possessions in our favor.

I would've also liked to not have our best playmaker playing on the weakside at the end of the game. Ball never got rotated to him and it puts too much pressure on Josh to make plays. Josh should be on the weakside spotting up.

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 07:32 AM
The bagging on Few on the "choke" thing is tired.

No adult thinks they excel in each and every aspect of their profession, even the greatest will readily admit their weaknesses.

Few gets a little tight end of game, it's contagious to the players (he's a sorta' parent-figure and kids pick up on all parent fear).

However, every single person bagging on him about this true weakness (maddening as it is) should also be forced to acknowledge that his prep and calm/cool has led to countless big games that never got close. I will point to Utah last year, a team we had no real right/reason to beat 11 versus 3?

I don't know what goes on in the locker room, don't know what Few says to the kids, but in my mind, what I'd want him to be saying tonight is: "I didn't do you guys many favors, should've made more adjustments, I got a little tight, this is on me. But, I believe in you guys more than you know, and lets take this and pledge to each other that when we're in a close game in the tournament, we may go down, but we're going down playing as aggressive and confident as possible. Too many didn't appear to want the ball. I want you to want it and take those good shots, miss or make.

"Now - you get the play free and loose. The entire country now thinks that this is normal Zags and we'll fold in a tight game in the tourney. So, nothing to lose, go down fighting like hell, if we lose we lose, but it won't be b/c we played tentative, starting with me."

That would be my approach, which is worth the amount you paid to read this.

It's a never ending thing though, year in and year out, Few does this .. other great coaches, who have been just as productive as Few this era do not continue to blow pressure moments after pressure moment..

And I guess that's what will always seperate him from Coach K, Izzo, or Brad Stevens even ..

I still can't get over the fact that he let BYU stand out and milk the #### clock every possession the last 5 minutes, then getting whatever shot, matchup they wanted and did nothing about it

PeninsulaDog
02-26-2017, 07:36 AM
Love Collins, but he was getting abused by Mika.

zagcheer78
02-26-2017, 07:37 AM
Every once in a while we give one of the underachieving failures of a program in the WCC a fleeting moment of relevance. Kinda like the make a wish foundation. It was BYU's turn tonight.

Thank you! I needed the laugh.

Zagceo
02-26-2017, 07:42 AM
Love Collins, but he was getting abused by Mika.

Mika played 39 min.....Collins 18 min......Mika abused all defenders

PeninsulaDog
02-26-2017, 07:43 AM
Maybe that was the reason he played only 18 minutes.

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 07:49 AM
Mika played 39 min.....Collins 18 min......Mika abused all defenders

Yeah but that doesn't tell the whole story .. Collins was actually getting a hand in his face the majority of the time.. yeah he was still draining shots but Karno and Williams were getting schooled on shot fakes and hesitations

It's kind of sad that we didn't start doubling or having someone rotate once he drove

gonstu
02-26-2017, 07:53 AM
Yeah but that doesn't tell the whole story .. Collins was actually getting a hand in his face the majority of the time.. yeah he was still draining shots but Karno and Williams were getting schooled on shot fakes and hesitations

It's kind of sad that we didn't start doubling or having someone rotate once he drove

He kept hitting those outside jumpers, but I still would rather make him keep hitting those with a hand in his face than let Hawes and Emery shoot wide open 3's. Mika made his shots, he was the best player on the floor last night.

DixieZag
02-26-2017, 08:37 AM
It's a never ending thing though, year in and year out, Few does this .. other great coaches, who have been just as productive as Few this era do not continue to blow pressure moments after pressure moment..

And I guess that's what will always seperate him from Coach K, Izzo, or Brad Stevens even ..

I still can't get over the fact that he let BYU stand out and milk the #### clock every possession the last 5 minutes, then getting whatever shot, matchup they wanted and did nothing about it

While I agree with the premise that Few tightens up at the end of close games, that doesn't equate to choking in pressure situations.

Last year, from last game at BYU on, each game was a "pressure situation" and the team played better than it had all year, and the Syracuse thing was not a choke in my mind b/c that team was known for its whacked defense and one knew they were going to throw everything at it - and we had a good shot to win it.

And let me ask this. The game @BYU - the one that came just after we got ranked number one, the big crowd, all that? Does stopping the late run at 5 down not count b/c he didn't let it get down to 1 and only then win it? What about at SMC, gameday, nation watching, all that and that run gets stopped.

Those are very recent examples of "not choking" in pressure situations that are seemingly ignored.

Again, agree Few tightens up. Seems to be getting better, to me. But, now you're asking for near perfection in a coach. Because many of those other "always there" teams have lost in the first round to 14 'ish" seeds at some point, when we haven't. Our coach does somethings theirs can't and vice versa

uZiGiZaG
02-26-2017, 08:41 AM
While I agree with the premise that Few tightens up at the end of close games, that doesn't equate to choking in pressure situations.

Last year, from last game at BYU on, each game was a "pressure situation" and the team played better than it had all year, and the Syracuse thing was not a choke in my mind b/c that team was known for its whacked defense and one knew they were going to throw everything at it - and we had a good shot to win it.

And let me ask this. The game @BYU - the one that came just after we got ranked number one, the big crowd, all that? Does stopping the late run at 5 down not count b/c he didn't let it get down to 1 and only then win it? What about at SMC, gameday, nation watching, all that and that run gets stopped.

Those are very recent examples of "not choking" in pressure situations that are seemingly ignored.

Again, agree Few tightens up. Seems to be getting better, to me. But, now you're asking for near perfection in a coach. Because many of those other "always there" teams have lost in the first round to 14 'ish" seeds at some point, when we haven't. Our coach does somethings theirs can't and vice versa

I hear ya .. just think this game was more similar to a NCAA TOURNY type of pressure


We shall see in just a few weeks if it's a legit thing or not though

VinnyZag
02-26-2017, 09:33 AM
This was just such an anomaly compared to the other 29 games of the season. I'm really not that worried. I expect them to be pretty much dominant in Vegas. And I hope BYU knocks off SMC in the semis so GU can remove that big smile from Mika's mug.

ZagHouse
02-26-2017, 09:34 AM
Mika's block/no call on the Collins attempted dunk in the second half. The crowd erupted with boos and it seemed everyone jumped to their feet to protest. Was it a missed call? I was watching it live and it happened so fast I didn't have a great vantage point.

LongIslandZagFan
02-26-2017, 09:42 AM
Sorry this has absolutely nothing to do with the loss. We refuse to adjust .. we lost Bc Mark Few did nothing different to stop Mika and did absolutely nothing different to get easy looks at the bucket

We refused to block out, and guard Mika. We deserved to lose.

SMDH... Mark Few sucks posts after a loss are like the sun coming up in the east every day. Screw the other 29 games. They lost this one so Mark sucks. Love that logic.

Zagceo
02-26-2017, 09:42 AM
Mika's block/no call on the Collins attempted dunk in the second half. The crowd erupted with boos and it seemed everyone jumped to their feet to protest. Was it a missed call? I was watching it live and it happened so fast I didn't have a great vantage point.

Looked like a good block to me even on slow mo replay. Thought the refs let em play for the most part. We had soooo many chances to close the deal just "laid an egg" to use a Few term.

Zags11
02-26-2017, 11:14 AM
What the issue is that for a message board, we can't always have perfect agreeable conversations. However, it seems if you blame few, people spew hate on you. Or let's say vice versa. This message board should be like a online zag family. We always won't agree with each other. It's better when we can have reasonable debates. This what makes a message board about the team,community we ALL LOVE fun.

LongIslandZagFan
02-26-2017, 11:24 AM
Looked like a good block to me even on slow mo replay. Thought the refs let em play for the most part. We had soooo many chances to close the deal just "laid an egg" to use a Few term.

Yep. Best assessment there. Boys had their chances... didn't convert. Simple as that.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 11:50 AM
Looked like a good block to me even on slow mo replay. Thought the refs let em play for the most part. We had soooo many chances to close the deal just "laid an egg" to use a Few term.

Really?

I have watched it 4 times now and for me it was a clear foul

Both Mika hand hit both of Collins wrists...hitting a shooters hands.wrist is a foul

In addition Mike jumped forward into Collins space and met him body to body contact inside Collins shooting space. Also a foul

Zagceo
02-26-2017, 12:01 PM
Really?

I have watched it 4 times now and for me it was a clear foul

Both Mika hand hit both of Collins wrists...hitting a shooters hands.wrist is a foul

In addition Mike jumped forward into Collins space and met him body to body contact inside Collins shooting space. Also a foul

3 refs saw it differently ....it happens.

PK should have upped his aggressiveness after getting 3 fouls instead of backing off.....IMO....better to go out fighting aggressively on home court on Senior night...also doubt Refs foul him out. Just saying

JPtheBeasta
02-26-2017, 03:21 PM
I just watched the first half an paid close attention to the turn of events and a lot of things went right for BYU:
1) 4 BYU shots that were prayers and were answered
2)Mika got away with placing two hands on Karnowski in the post while defending him.
3)Haws hit three 3-pointers in a row to cap off a decent BYU run
4)Emery barfed up an airball 3 that landed right into a BYU players hands for a putback
5)Missed dunk by JW3

Aside from missed free throws, the Zags had a decent first half.

JPtheBeasta
02-26-2017, 03:29 PM
First exchange of the 2nd half: BYU turnover, missed GU layup

A lot of things had to go wrong this game, and they did

gonstu
02-26-2017, 03:34 PM
I just watched the first half an paid close attention to the turn of events and a lot of things went right for BYU:
1) 4 BYU shots that were prayers and were answered
2)Mika got away with placing two hands on Karnowski in the post while defending him.
3)Haws hit three 3-pointers in a row to cap off a decent BYU run
4)Emery barfed up an airball 3 that landed right into a BYU players hands for a putback
5)Missed dunk by JW3

Aside from missed free throws, the Zags had a decent first half.

you've convinced me! I'm back to Final 4 dreams!

Seriously though, the loss was tough because I didn't think it would happen. But you are right that all of those things - PLUS our awful 3 pt shooting and FT shooting - all had to go down for them to barely beat us. The bummer is that it shows in the dance it could all be finished with one off-night.

BTW, great point about Mika putting two hands to defend. That's something that has typically been called so far in conference play.

fedwayzag
02-26-2017, 03:49 PM
hindsight 20-20 but all I could think about when BYU was running it down to 10 seconds and then running their play was move into a zone at the 11 second mark. It would change up the defense and cause confusion. The players are smart and could do it even if it has not been practiced. We just let them run it and did not force them to do anything else.

JPtheBeasta
02-26-2017, 04:04 PM
hindsight 20-20 but all I could think about when BYU was running it down to 10 seconds and then running their play was move into a zone at the 11 second mark. It would change up the defense and cause confusion. The players are smart and could do it even if it has not been practiced. We just let them run it and did not force them to do anything else.

BYU was gassed and really slowed things down on their end. I don't know if it would have worked, but pushing tempo on offense or even a token press on an already turnover prone BYU squad might have gotten the game going the right way for the good guys.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 04:05 PM
hindsight 20-20 but all I could think about when BYU was running it down to 10 seconds and then running their play was move into a zone at the 11 second mark. It would change up the defense and cause confusion. The players are smart and could do it even if it has not been practiced. We just let them run it and did not force them to do anything else.
Let 3 point shooters get good looks from a zone. Not wise in my. Ook

fedwayzag
02-26-2017, 04:10 PM
Hoop, I get what you are saying, but anything was better then just letting them do what they wanted. If we switched from man to man into zone they would have not had time to react in my opinion.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 04:16 PM
Hoop, I get what you are saying, but anything was better then just letting them do what they wanted. If we switched from man to man into zone they would have not had time to react in my opinion.

Except we forced bad shots with the defense we employed and if we go zone they more than likely get open looks for conversion

So defense got stops and first time all year our counter punch offense could not respond


We missed 7 shots and. 2 free throws in a 4 minute span

Hoopaholic
02-26-2017, 04:18 PM
Let me put it another way

If we employed the defense we saw. Got the same stops. It converted in offense 20% of possessions we win by 10


Top ranked defense did the job. The top 5 rated offense was nowhere to be found

gonzagafan62
02-26-2017, 04:19 PM
SMDH... Mark Few sucks posts after a loss are like the sun coming up in the east every day. Screw the other 29 games. They lost this one so Mark sucks. Love that logic.

Yup. Never mind the adjustments against SMC, adjustments in game vs USF or the brilliance last year when we stuck Sabonis on collinsworth.

Yeah few just sucks. That's why he's going to the hall of fame

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-26-2017, 04:21 PM
SMDH... Mark Few sucks posts after a loss are like the sun coming up in the east every day. Screw the other 29 games. They lost this one so Mark sucks. Love that logic.

Inaccurate exaggeration LIZF. Nobody saying Few sucks, just expressing frustration at the lack of in-game adjustments made last night (why did Zags stop going inside to PK; why did Zags just let BYU milk the clock; why not throw some diffearen't looks at Mika defensively etc). Others expressing their opinion Zags and Coach Few tightened up at the end and have done same in previous years at pivotal moments. This is a message board about Gonzaga hoops right? What's so bad about tossing around opinions?

JPtheBeasta
02-26-2017, 04:23 PM
you've convinced me! I'm back to Final 4 dreams!

Seriously though, the loss was tough because I didn't think it would happen. But you are right that all of those things - PLUS our awful 3 pt shooting and FT shooting - all had to go down for them to barely beat us. The bummer is that it shows in the dance it could all be finished with one off-night.

BTW, great point about Mika putting two hands to defend. That's something that has typically been called so far in conference play.

If you weren't being sarcastic, I'm glad to help. This was a perfect storm- were George Clooney and Mark Wahlberg in the house last night?

DixieZag
02-27-2017, 12:56 AM
BYU was gassed and really slowed things down on their end. I don't know if it would have worked, but pushing tempo on offense or even a token press on an already turnover prone BYU squad might have gotten the game going the right way for the good guys.

It was my impression (just from TV) that we were very gassed, too - especially Karno. The one adjustment in hindsight that might've been a good idea was put better-shooting Collins in for Karno in the last 2:00 - though, Collins struggled with Mika, so did everyone.

At least with respect to Mika, I do just tip my cap. Kid showed up at the biggest game. BS play on Karno with intentional, but still....

LongIslandZagFan
02-27-2017, 05:42 AM
Inaccurate exaggeration LIZF. Nobody saying Few sucks, just expressing frustration at the lack of in-game adjustments made last night (why did Zags stop going inside to PK; why did Zags just let BYU milk the clock; why not throw some diffearen't looks at Mika defensively etc). Others expressing their opinion Zags and Coach Few tightened up at the end and have done same in previous years at pivotal moments. This is a message board about Gonzaga hoops right? What's so bad about tossing around opinions?

And I am tossing mine.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-27-2017, 09:40 AM
And I am tossing mine.

"Mark Few sucks posts" is not an opinion, it's a misrepresentation and exaggeration of legitimate questions being raised by multiple posters. Nobody said "Mark Few sucks".

mzimmer
02-27-2017, 10:15 AM
Just got a chance to watch the game. DVR is a wonderful thing. Couple of thoughts.

1. You guys have a guard problem. Your guards can't stay in front of anybody. This makes your Front Court take the responsibility for guards driving.
2. Karnowski can't guard stretch post players. He's good to about 8-10ft. Watching the game after reading this thread makes things easy to concentrate on. There are times when Karnowski doesn't even challenge a shot. He stays 8ft from a guy.
3. Collins got hurt from the outside but almost always had a hand in the face. Also of note, your best rebounder per minute (collins) was On the bench for the last 8mins of the game. Numbers come from Sports Reference .com

4. Free throws were bad on. You sides really. Not sure I would look to that as the key in a loss - sure didn't help.

4. When you watch the fame again - WITHOUT EMOTION, you will see that Collins and Karnowski are open a ZILLION times. Guards looking them off looking for their shots and playing "hero" ball as somebody said above. In fact there were several times Collins was completely alone and standing under the basket calling for the ball. On one play, he made a move to get open and his defender fell 6-8 feet away - no pass.

5. 3pt shooting was horrible. This let's a defense sink in more and clog the lane. Not good. Your Big Guys are what sesperate you from the rest of the nation.

With all that said, coaches should see that, make the adjustment. I'm not quite sure why Williams and Collins don't play more together. I realize that Karnowski is a fan favorite, (and I read it was senior night), but the numbers suggest that you aren't coaching to win against BYU. Karnowski just doesn't rebound. Again look at the numbers.

I challenge you guys to watch the game again. Without emotion. Take a hard look at your pick and role plays. I'm not sure the front court got one pass off of them.

Oh yea, one more thing. Williams and Collins Fronted everything (just about) in the post on defense -which has to be tough-have to be in great shape, and BYU threw over the top. That's actually the weak side big or wings job to help. It only resulted in a couple buckets, but the coaches have to figure that out as well.

Tough loss, but it could lead to good things. Just have to get past the heart break.

LongIslandZagFan
02-27-2017, 10:33 AM
"Mark Few sucks posts" is not an opinion, it's a misrepresentation and exaggeration of legitimate questions being raised by multiple posters. Nobody said "Mark Few sucks".

Oh it is an opinion... I just expressed it and I know for a fact that I am not the only one that took those posts that way. I am just one of the few that articulated it. Hey, by all means, bash all you want. Like everyone else, I am entitled to an opinion. I am not stopping anyone from expressing theirs. Like I said, they are just like the sun rising... they are like clockwork.

LongIslandZagFan
02-27-2017, 10:48 AM
Just got a chance to watch the game. DVR is a wonderful thing. Couple of thoughts.

1. You guys have a guard problem. Your guards can't stay in front of anybody. This makes your Front Court take the responsibility for guards driving.
2. Karnowski can't guard stretch post players. He's good to about 8-10ft. Watching the game after reading this thread makes things easy to concentrate on. There are times when Karnowski doesn't even challenge a shot. He stays 8ft from a guy.
3. Collins got hurt from the outside but almost always had a hand in the face. Also of note, your best rebounder per minute (collins) was On the bench for the last 8mins of the game. Numbers come from Sports Reference .com

4. Free throws were bad on. You sides really. Not sure I would look to that as the key in a loss - sure didn't help.

4. When you watch the fame again - WITHOUT EMOTION, you will see that Collins and Karnowski are open a ZILLION times. Guards looking them off looking for their shots and playing "hero" ball as somebody said above. In fact there were several times Collins was completely alone and standing under the basket calling for the ball. On one play, he made a move to get open and his defender fell 6-8 feet away - no pass.

5. 3pt shooting was horrible. This let's a defense sink in more and clog the lane. Not good. Your Big Guys are what sesperate you from the rest of the nation.

With all that said, coaches should see that, make the adjustment. I'm not quite sure why Williams and Collins don't play more together. I realize that Karnowski is a fan favorite, (and I read it was senior night), but the numbers suggest that you aren't coaching to win against BYU. Karnowski just doesn't rebound. Again look at the numbers.

I challenge you guys to watch the game again. Without emotion. Take a hard look at your pick and role plays. I'm not sure the front court got one pass off of them.

Oh yea, one more thing. Williams and Collins Fronted everything (just about) in the post on defense -which has to be tough-have to be in great shape, and BYU threw over the top. That's actually the weak side big or wings job to help. It only resulted in a couple buckets, but the coaches have to figure that out as well.

Tough loss, but it could lead to good things. Just have to get past the heart break.

All reasonable points. My take on some of them:

1. I really felt like Zag guards slacked off (not meaning lazy but rather farther back from ball handler) on several key plays. One sequence in the second half that I remember was Haws pulling up about 3-4 feet behind the arc and nearest defender was at least 4-5 feet away. Couldn't even get a hand up for it. From watching this season, this doesn't happen that much. Melson, Perkins, and NWG are usually in a shooters face. I recall it happening a couple times like that. That definitely needs to be cleaned up.

2. I can see this. In his defense to a minor degree... Mika is not your average post player. Go back and see how he did against Markannen though. There is an elite post player that he and Collins kept in check.

3. Not going to disagree... But at times you go with what got you there.

4a. Ummm... yeah... got nothing for that other than spot on. This team is typically better at the stripe.

4b. I've noticed that several times this season. Can't disagree in the slightest.

5. Zags almost never shoot 18% from behind the arc at home and most were great looks. An anamoly IMHO... but yeah, it hurt big time as BYU seemed to content to let Zags shoot them until they made them. Led to some short possessions in the second half.

U Zig, I Zag
02-27-2017, 11:42 AM
All good points. This year GU has been doing more of the traditional back to the basket game. The pick and rolls, meant to feed the big guys, don't seem to be a thing for us this year. My opinion is that 1) not the best set shots at 8-10 2) Williams, Collins and Tillie (especially), have a tendency to play a little loose in motion with the ball when they have it. We increase TO's and charges playing that way - back to the basket hand up for the ball is more likely to get a foul call on other guys (for this GU team, anyway). 3) For a time, the big to big down low passing was killing teams. Not much of that on Sat.

We didn't hit from deep and BYU just went one on one most of the time and let the bigs get what they could get. We did the same on Mika - a lot of points were his own creation, but we didn't double to avoid leaving a 3pt shooter open. Basically what BYU did, expect we didn't hit any big shots.

Defense (guards) was bad. Ball handling was bad. We actually DO stay in front of guys. Melson, in particular, is a monster. Why he didn't play more I don't know. Nobody had their hands up and the defensive presence wasn't as in your face/frantic as hit has been. This is because, for the most part, the many of WCC teams don't have anyone that can do anything with the ball (not at an elite level) and so GU has been playing decent D, maybe concentrating on shutting down a guy or two on a team and then coasting, winning by 25+.

Hopefully this is a wakeup call.

Zagceo
02-27-2017, 12:41 PM
why did we stop feeding the post?

Coaches didn't demand? Players didn't listen to coaches?

Make Mika work harder on defense! All positive

uZiGiZaG
02-27-2017, 03:42 PM
You all can get mad at the opinion that Mark Few becomes a different coach as soon as things get tight, pressure moments all you want.. but the FACT is, it's TRUE.

No matter how GREAT of a team we have, or will EVER have, we will always choke under Mark Few. We could have 5 McDonalds All-Americans, and come NCAA Tourny time, as soon as we reach the Sweet 16, Elite 8, (or if he ever lucks up in the FF) and meet a good team and/or a great coach, we are going to blow it.

Whether we are up 9 with 3 minutes to go (Cuse) or tied up with 7 minutes to go (Duke) Mark Few is gonna get tight, and allow opposing coaches to out coach him .. he's like the coach from the Water Boy.. but after 15 years, he hasn't figured out how to not hide in the shadows

It's going to happen again this year, in just a few short weeks .. and you can call me a crazy troll blah blah blah, but it's the truth and deep down in the back of your mind you all know it.

Just hope it happens this year to an actual equally great team, great coach like a Duke, UNC, or UK or UCLA instead of a South Carolina, Virgina, or Butler this year, it'll be a little less embarrassing, and you guys can continue to make excuses for Few Bc "there's nothing to bash for losing to HOF coaches" or whatever it is your gonna come up with.

Hoopaholic
02-27-2017, 03:47 PM
You all can get mad at the opinion that Mark Few becomes a different coach as soon as things get tight, pressure moments all you want.. but the FACT is, it's TRUE.

No matter how GREAT of a team we have, or will EVER have, we will always choke under Mark Few. We could have 5 McDonalds All-Americans, and come NCAA Tourny time, as soon as we reach the Sweet 16, Elite 8, (or if he ever lucks up in the FF) and meet a good team and/or a great coach, we are going to blow it.

Whether we are up 9 with 3 minutes to go (Cuse) or tied up with 7 minutes to go (Duke) Mark Few is gonna get tight, and allow opposing coaches to out coach him .. he's like the coach from the Water Boy.. but after 15 years, he hasn't figured out how to not hide in the shadows

It's going to happen again this year, in just a few short weeks .. and you can call me a crazy troll blah blah blah, but it's the truth and deep down in the back of your mind you all know it.

Just hope it happens this year to an actual equally great team, great coach like a Duke, UNC, or UK or UCLA instead of a South Carolina, Virgina, or Butler this year, it'll be a little less embarrassing, and you guys can continue to make excuses for Few Bc "there's nothing to bash for losing to HOF coaches" or whatever it is your gonna come up with.

Opinion and fact in same sentence. Interesting concept

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-27-2017, 05:31 PM
why did we stop feeding the post?

Coaches didn't demand? Players didn't listen to coaches?

Make Mika work harder on defense! All positive

Legit questions which, LIZF, is nowhere near the same as saying "Mark Few sucks"

bballbeachbum
03-05-2017, 09:41 AM
watched the game again, sorry for long post

Team loss.
BYU started M2M going under the screens, no double in the post. Rose called TO at 17:52 at 7-0. Zags started digging hard over the screens, getting picked and checked pretty good.
At 20-5, Mathews missed 2 FTs and the team went on to go 3-12 over the next stretch while Haws made 3 3s and Mika went 3-4 on mid-range jumpers. Bryant gets a lot of credit; he made their first basket, then he made the 3 pointer at 20-5 to start their comeback while the Zags clanked at the line (on that one, Mathews had just missed his 2 FTs and over rotated inside leaving Bryant wide open in the corner, then Bryant finished their scoring in the 1st half with a 3 with Silas on him; on that 3 Silas went under the screen, but on the next BYU possession they ran the same action only Silas went over the screen and forced the drive and the ball went out of bounds.
after quick start for Karno, Few kept going to him during his next stint on the floor after normal sub patters, but Karno missed a jumper fading to the baseline then went 1-4 from the line with a turnover to punctuate his post touches during that span and went to the bench at 4:26 after the turnover.
seemed Rose had the game plan set up for Mika to take Karno mid range and shoot over him and to take Zach inside off the bounce from the same positions, and he executed both well, whether that was the plan or not.
After Karno sat, Mika beat Zach off the bounce for 2 with the shot fake in the paint and Zach bit. Then Zach got sealed high by Mika but Mathews flew in to steal out of Mika’s hands under the hoop around 2:25. Then at 1:35 mark 3 in the key on Zach on the other end. Then at 1:24 mark Mika took Zach off the dribble from the FT line for the and 1. That’s the one when Mika barked into the student section with that look of his.

2nd half
GU adjusted and stopped trying to go over the top of the screens after getting bumped off in the 1st half, started switching and jumping the ball. Led to some open pick and pops that both Childs and Mika made.
Off made JP 3, BYU pushed the ball up the court hard and JP appeared out of position while thanking NWG for the dime on his 3, leading to Karno’s 2nd foul at 17:38. 3rd Karno foul was when he fouled Mika’s elbow with his face and to the bench at 17:11; Mika went 4-4 to convert on both of Karno’s fouls.
Zach came in, Zags went to him first possession low block with Mika on him but he missed jump hook. With score unchanged, JP missed a 3 that Zach rebounded but missed the put back but got his own miss all leading to a missed Mathews 3. Mika then faced Zack up on the wing at 15:40 and swished his pullup.
At 58-48 out of a timeout, NWG walked and an 11-2 BYU run followed highlighted by Few’s T which sent Emery to the line to make his first point of the game; he seemed to feel better as hit he back to back 3’s to end the run that was also punctuated by Mika’s two handed block of Zach’s dunk attempt to make the score Zags 60-59.

After the great start from Shem inside, Mika outplayed all Zags in the paint, see above. The flagrant he took on Karno went unchecked by the Zags, it was intentional and could have hurt Karno’s back that way. He could do it because he had so many fouls still to give at that point in the 2nd half to be able to tactically foul intentionally like that. Rose was that kind of player, his team is not afraid to use all parts of the rule book to win and did so credit to them.
In my opinion, when a player like Mika does what he was doing in your building with the fouls on Karno’s face and the flagrant, and he’s taunting the crowd like he was, his whole team is lifted. No Zag stepped up to that physical challenge and, I’d bet when other teams see that film, they will be eager to challenge the Zags physically, so Few and co. need a plan to be ready for it, my opinion, and I’m guessing they will. We’ll see

bballbeachbum
03-05-2017, 09:42 AM
why did we stop feeding the post?

Coaches didn't demand? Players didn't listen to coaches?

Make Mika work harder on defense! All positive

did not stop feeding the post so much seemed to me as the post production was way down unfortunately

bballbeachbum
03-05-2017, 09:54 AM
Just got a chance to watch the game. DVR is a wonderful thing. Couple of thoughts.

1. You guys have a guard problem. Your guards can't stay in front of anybody. This makes your Front Court take the responsibility for guards driving.

3. Collins got hurt from the outside but almost always had a hand in the face. Also of note, your best rebounder per minute (collins) was On the bench for the last 8mins of the game. Numbers come from Sports Reference .com

4. When you watch the fame again - WITHOUT EMOTION, you will see that Collins and Karnowski are open a ZILLION times. Guards looking them off looking for their shots and playing "hero" ball as somebody said above. In fact there were several times Collins was completely alone and standing under the basket calling for the ball. On one play, he made a move to get open and his defender fell 6-8 feet away - no pass.

going to cherry pick a little here mzimmer

the guards force the bounce and drive to funnel to the help inside on purpose, denying the kick to open 3 point shooters. been doing this all year against every team not named Florida, and with some special adjustments against St. Mary's. bigger issue was allowing open looks from 3 which is almost always the case

Collins got hurt inside by Mika on both ends of the floor. see my post detailing such. to his credit Zach is a true competitor and battles back hard after getting blunted, like after Mika's two handed block I think Zach's next touch was a drive to the rim and he got fouled (1-2 fts on that one). Mika also took Zach off the bounce into the paint pretty well

didn't see them open like you said, but yes a couple of times, which is probably 2 too many for this team