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RenoZag
02-17-2017, 07:00 PM
Top 25, OPPONENTS, and Others

Morning


#25 Notre Dame @ NC State 9:00 am ESPN
Tulsa @ #18 Cincinnati 9:00 am ESPNU
No. Iowa @ Wichita St 9:00 am ESPN2
#2 Villanova @ Seton Hall 9:30 am FOX
Missouri @ TENN 10:00 am SEC / EXE
Wake Forest @ #12 Duke 10:00 am ACC / EXE
Va Tech @ #8 Louisville 10:00 am ACC
#3 Kansas @ # 4 Baylor 10:00 am CBS
#15 FLORIDA @ Miss. State 11:00 am ESPN
Texas Tech @ # 9 West Virginia 11:00 am ESPN2

Afternoon


Colorado @ #7 Oregon Noon FOX
Michigan St. @ #16 Purdue 1:00 pm ESPN
#17 FSU @ Pitt 1:00 pm ESPN2
#13 Kentucky @ Georgia 3:00 pm ESPN
TCU @ IOWA STATE 3:00 pm ESPNEWS
#19 SMU @ Houston 3:00 pm ESPN2

Evening


#5 ARIZONA @ WASHINGTON 5:00 pm ESPN2
Xavier @ Marquette 5:00 pm CBSSN
#14 Virginia @ #10 No. Carolina 5:15 pm ESPN
#21 So. Carolina @ Vanderbilt 5:30 pm SEC
Grand Canyon @ UTAH VALLEY
USC @ #6 UCLA 7:00 pm PAC12


WCC Slate


PEP @ LMU 3:00 pm
USF @ UP 7:00 pm
USD @ SCU 7:00 pm
#22 SMC @ BYU 7:00 pm ESPN2

Full Slate: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/schedule/_/date/20170218/group/50

Have a fine day. So many games, so little time. . .

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 05:31 AM
Katz Korner replay is on ESPNU now; will re-air again at 8:00am, same channel.

Rece, Jay, Jay, and Seth do their thing at 8:00 am on ESPN

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-18-2017, 07:04 AM
Thanks Reno. Two games other than Zags I'm most interested to watch: Kansas v Baylor and Gaels v BYU.

Zag_Dad
02-18-2017, 07:08 AM
Big game for the Gaels, we really need them to win or they may fall out of top 25.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 07:37 AM
Game Day heading to Tucson next week for the UCLA game. . .no shock there.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 07:48 AM
Jerry Palm list his "bubble teams" in action today: http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/saturdays-bubble-tracker-teams-fighting-to-make-the-ncaa-tournament/

Teams of interest: Wichita State, Dayton, UT-Arlington, Boise State. Wichita State has 24 wins, looking like they will get #25 today. . .hard for this fan to see them as bubblelicious

gonstu
02-18-2017, 07:55 AM
Wonder if the gaels will win

sittingon50
02-18-2017, 08:19 AM
Thanks Reno.

Marcus
02-18-2017, 08:21 AM
Did anyone else just catch Lavins comments before the Nova game? He said Zags sweet 16 at best, no elite guards. And not tested at all. Stated only one elite 8 as proof that they can't break through. That was some serious bs from a former coach. Has he watched Nigel play at all this year? No elite guards? Brutal.

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 08:36 AM
Did anyone else just catch Lavins comments before the Nova game? He said Zags sweet 16 at best, no elite guards. And not tested at all. Stated only one elite 8 as proof that they can't break through. That was some serious bs from a former coach. Has he watched Nigel play at all this year? No elite guards? Brutal.

Sounds like a typical hater who is lazy, hasn't watched a game, and hasn't even bothered to pick up the stat book that he was provided.

Must still be bitter that our team literally kicked his butt in 2011 in Denver as an 11 seed

Zagceo
02-18-2017, 08:46 AM
Told Lavin to check wooden list for Zags elite guard

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 08:47 AM
Did anyone else just catch Lavins comments before the Nova game? He said Zags sweet 16 at best, no elite guards. And not tested at all. Stated only one elite 8 as proof that they can't break through. That was some serious bs from a former coach. Has he watched Nigel play at all this year? No elite guards? Brutal.

Did someone hide his hair products before the show ?

BayAreaZagFan
02-18-2017, 08:47 AM
Sounds like a typical hater who is lazy, hasn't watched a game, and hasn't even bothered to pick up the stat book that he was provided.

Must still be bitter that our team literally kicked his butt in 2011 in Denver as an 11 seed

Lavin's kind of a ######, anyway. I got the impression they were taking opposite sides and he was just trying to make his own blowhard-y hot take for the show. Agree that he hasn't watched a game. When the other guy pointed out that this team was better than the last Elite Eight team, Lavin said, "Really? Wow?".

BayAreaZagFan
02-18-2017, 08:50 AM
Lavin's kind of a ######, anyway. I got the impression they were taking opposite sides and he was just trying to make his own blowhard-y hot take for the show. Agree that he hasn't watched a game. When the other guy pointed out that this team was better than the last Elite Eight team, Lavin said, "Really? Wow?".

Oops! Sorry about the "#####". It wasn't that bad of a word. Promise!

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 09:09 AM
Lavin's kind of a ######, anyway. I got the impression they were taking opposite sides and he was just trying to make his own blowhard-y hot take for the show. Agree that he hasn't watched a game. When the other guy pointed out that this team was better than the last Elite Eight team, Lavin said, "Really? Wow?".

As much as I love Pangos I think NWG is better than him, Perkins and bell are pretty dang equal IMO Mathews is better at threes than Wesley but Wesley could drive and get tough boards. Obviously wiltjer could shoot lights out but his main problem was always defense but JW3 and collins/Tillie make up for that. All are better than decent shooters too .... New Karnowski beats old Karnowski FTs and shooting has gotten better remarkably...

Bench is more loaded too.

To refer to Gary Parrish Lavin is either ignorant, stubborn or stupid. Lol

ProVeeZag
02-18-2017, 09:13 AM
Oops! Sorry about the "#####". It wasn't that bad of a word. Promise!

Lavin has to stay true to his celebrity-status, blue-blood background. Wouldn't be "cool" to admit the blue-collar boys from Spokane were anything but a fluke in a weak conference, untested, low-ceiling, yadda/yadda. Like you, I think he's a #####***@, also! No apologies necessary.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 09:30 AM
Wake 24, Duke 26

Lville 29, VT 20

Nova 42, SHall 31

ND 66, NCSt 56

Wichita St 52, NoIowa 37

Chalky morning so far

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 09:33 AM
Tenn 23, Missouri 11 7:51 1H

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 09:36 AM
Cincinnati 67
Tulsa 41

8:40 to go 2H

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 09:41 AM
Baylor 23, KU 19 6:40 1H

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 09:52 AM
Wichita state 73
Northern Iowa 44

Final

jpn17
02-18-2017, 10:34 AM
Is it just me or is anyone else not particularly impressed with Kansas or Baylor? I think Gonzaga would beat both these teams.

Bogozags
02-18-2017, 10:37 AM
Baylor is just horrible...they make KU look so good...they athletes but boy, do they make some of the worst decisions!

KU just took the lead and now up by 5pts...that is the ball game...

Bogozags
02-18-2017, 10:38 AM
Is it just me or is anyone else not particularly impressed with Kansas or Baylor? I think Gonzaga would beat both these teams.

KU might well have the best back court in the country...they are really weak on their front line...imo

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 10:40 AM
Is it just me or is anyone else not particularly impressed with Kansas or Baylor? I think Gonzaga would beat both these teams.

I've been saying the whole time that the bug 12 is supremely overrated.

gonstu
02-18-2017, 10:53 AM
Zags could take dook, especially on a neutral court

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 11:09 AM
Baylor doesn't appear to be a very "heady" squad. Wasted a good opportunity to knock off the JayHawks.

zagamatic
02-18-2017, 11:18 AM
I'll say this about Kansas, without the benefit of A LOT of help from the zebras, they would have lost to Baylor and WVU by at LEAST 15.

U Zig, I Zag
02-18-2017, 11:29 AM
Baylor doesn't appear to be a very "heady" squad. Wasted a good opportunity to knock off the JayHawks.

They have a lot of high quality wins, but when I watch them I just see a bunch of jumping jacks out there. Athletic and lanky - but as you said, not the most heady of teams.

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 11:50 AM
I like our chances as the #3 overall seed right now lol

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 11:51 AM
I'll say this about Kansas, without the benefit of A LOT of help from the zebras, they would have lost to Baylor and WVU by at LEAST 15.

Maybe so. But those refs don't travel, that's for sure

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 12:12 PM
Florida beat Mississippi St. by 5. Duke over Wake Forest 99-94. Wow, not much D in that one apparently. Texas Tech-West Virginia going OT. 'Nova cruised, won by 22. Louisville beat VA Tech by 4. Notre Dame beat NC St. Oregon cruising over Colorado early 2nd half.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 12:18 PM
Tennessee won by 20.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 12:58 PM
Purdue 37, Mich State 26 Half

Oregon 98, Colorado 63 under 3:00 to play

Miami (18-8) knocks off Clemson (14-12)

Dayton 76, SBON 72 ( Good win for SMC )

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-18-2017, 01:00 PM
Is it just me or is anyone else not particularly impressed with Kansas or Baylor? I think Gonzaga would beat both these teams.

Gonzaga is a better, deeper team than either group. Our guards are smarter and mentally tougher than Baylor's. Our front court is deeper and better than the Jayhawks' group. Our overall balance should take either team on a neutral court.

I fear the zebras in a game against Kansas or Duke almost as much as I fear the opponents.

dhozagfan08
02-18-2017, 01:30 PM
Completely agree that Kansas, Baylor, and the big 12 are over rated. Kansas has won so many close games where they were either lucky or had help from the refs. Would love to have Baylor as our 2 seed and Kansas as our final four matchup. Also agree though that the refs would scare me more against Kansas than the actual team. I'll never forget my duke grad father-in-law admit that the refs called that E8 game completely one sided.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 01:32 PM
West Virginia won in double OT. Purdue up 20 over Michigan St., halfway thru the 2nd half. Not Sparty's year this season. Florida St. continuing their road struggles, trailing Pitt by 11 also about midway thru the 2nd half.

Pretty sure Dickau is calling the Wazu game for Pac 12 Network today. Sounds like him. Heister is definitely not his broadcast partner on this one.

drvenkman05
02-18-2017, 02:15 PM
Kansas has structured that conference to be " football first," all so they can stay relevant. Nobody does less with more than Kansas University (which is what their hometown Lawrence Journal World calls them).


Completely agree that Kansas, Baylor, and the big 12 are over rated. Kansas has won so many close games where they were either lucky or had help from the refs. Would love to have Baylor as our 2 seed and Kansas as our final four matchup. Also agree though that the refs would scare me more against Kansas than the actual team. I'll never forget my duke grad father-in-law admit that the refs called that E8 game completely one sided.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:06 PM
Arizona-Washington should be starting on ESPN2, but SMU-Houston still has about a minute left, and w/ fouls and time outs will take about another 10 minutes. Why can't ESPN figure out that games don't fit in 2 hour time slots? Yet again missing a significant portion of a game.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:15 PM
Iowa St. 84
TCU 71

LMU 82
Pepperdine 61

Arizona up 12-9 early over UW. Please help me, Bill Walton on the call again. Sigh.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:17 PM
Georgia leading Kentucky 73-71 inside 2 minutes left.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:18 PM
Somebody please shoot Walton. Tired gas bag.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:22 PM
Of course UW is playing out of their mind like they usually do against Arizona, 7-8 from the field, but Cats still leading 20-18.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:28 PM
It appears Dime's suspension has bee lifted for UW. That didn't last very long.

Markannen doing work in the paint today, 4-5 FG all in the lane.

24-18 Arizona 10:26 1st half.


Kentucky pulls it out 82-77.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:38 PM
SMU wins, moves record to 24-4, 14-1 in conference. Still totally under the radar for the Ponies.

Again I have to ask, how in the world did Coach K not manage to utilize Semi Ojeleye at all during his time at Duke? The guy is a stud. Nobody wastes more talent than K does.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 04:47 PM
one of my best buds is a die-hard Jayhawk fan, so the compromise is we watch both teams throughout the season over many brews.

I must admit, I have never seen a team receive so many favorable calls vs opponents than Kansas. Time and time again they are bailed out, more than any team I've seen...

Some of it is skill, prestige, blue blood lines, etc, but man....Kansas has one at least 4 games this season at the FT line. Props to them, but one of the last teams I want to see in March.

The refs fall for them every time.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 04:50 PM
It appears Dime's suspension has bee lifted for UW. That didn't last very long.

Markannen doing work in the paint today, 4-5 FG all in the lane.

24-18 Arizona 10:26 1st half.


Kentucky pulls it out 82-77.

I expect Markannen to be a STUD in the NBA in 2-3 years.

Just has the all around Porzingis thing going for him. Athletic, 7', can shoot, post up, face up, drive, etc. Not the best rebounder, but once he puts on some muscle, I foresee an NBA All-star type talent.

Yes, we have Lonzo Ball, Fultz, Josh Jackson, and many others, but I'd consider taking that kid #1 if my team needed a multi-faceted 4 man.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:50 PM
one of my best buds is a die-hard Jayhawk fan, so the compromise is we watch both teams throughout the season over many brews.

I must admit, I have never seen a team receive so many favorable calls vs opponents than Kansas. Time and time again they are bailed out, more than any team I've seen...

Some of it is skill, prestige, blue blood lines, etc, but man....Kansas has one at least 4 games this season at the FT line. Props to them, but one of the last teams I want to see in March.

The refs fall for them every time.

What happens if Kansas plays Duke? Existential crisis for the refs?

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:55 PM
This is OT, but the UConn women just won their 100th straight a couple days ago, now they are struggling to beat Tulane. Up 2 w/ a 16 seconds left. Would be one of the all time upsets if Tulane can pull it out.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 04:56 PM
What happens if Kansas plays Duke? Existential crisis for the refs?

love it. so true.

haven't seen many Duke games this season, yet a handful of KU games.

unbelievable favorable calls....and NO calls vs them.

it was WVU last wk...and Baylor this wk. The norm in Lawrence.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 04:56 PM
Fultz drains a 3 to tie it at the half. Stupid Huskies always play over their head against Arizona.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 04:56 PM
anyone tuning into BYU-SMC tonight on ESPN?

23dpg
02-18-2017, 04:59 PM
Fultz drains a 3 to tie it at the half. Stupid Huskies always play over their head against Arizona.

Arizona still seems to be in a funk. Despite getting a potential lottery player back in the fold, they've actually regressed a little bit. I saw a stat the other day that showed Arizona had a better overall efficiency with Trier on the bench vs in the game. This was just for games that Trier has played in. Odd.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 05:00 PM
anyone tuning into BYU-SMC tonight on ESPN?

Might. It's that or Netflix binge watch of "The People vs. OJ Simpson."

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:03 PM
Arizona still seems to be in a funk. Despite getting a potential lottery player back in the fold, they've actually regressed a little bit. I saw a stat the other day that showed Arizona had a better overall efficiency with Trier on the bench vs in the game. This was just for games that Trier has played in. Odd.

I think they're out of the worst of it. Played pretty well in the 2nd half against Wazzu. They have 2 starters out tonight (Allen and Ristic) and still playing pretty well. Huskies playing one of it not their best game of the year so far to match them.


edited--and PJC has been ballin' the last couple games, really nice seeing him playing better after being ineffective for quite a few games

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 05:05 PM
Arizona still seems to be in a funk. Despite getting a potential lottery player back in the fold, they've actually regressed a little bit. I saw a stat the other day that showed Arizona had a better overall efficiency with Trier on the bench vs in the game. This was just for games that Trier has played in. Odd.

yet every comment section in ESPN says, "if Arizona woulda had Trier vs Gonzaga...."

heck, gotta admit, even makes me wonder if Trier's defense on Karnowski would have stopped him from scoring at will? ;)

after awhile, we almost got bored going to Shem so often vs Zona....

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:06 PM
Dawgs shooting 58% from the floor at the half. Don't think that will hold up.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 05:07 PM
I think they're out of the worst of it. Played pretty well in the 2nd half against Wazzu. They have 2 starters out tonight (Allen and Ristic) and still playing pretty well. Huskies playing one of it not their best game of the year so far to match them.

Sounds like Ristic and Allen will return shortly. Minor injuries.

Amazing Arizona could -- and should -- win the Pac-12 this year.

Awesome.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:10 PM
Sounds like Ristic and Allen will return shortly. Minor injuries.

Amazing Arizona could -- and should -- win the Pac-12 this year.

Awesome.

UCLA next weekend is still a big hurdle. But agreed, not only keeping their head above water but compiling a really good record w/ all they've been thru this year is quite a story.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:11 PM
Carolina up 34-22 at the half. UVa is fading fast.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 05:21 PM
Carolina up 34-22 at the half. UVa is fading fast.

makes me nervous they'll be our 4th seed in S16.

defense usually shows up in March.

CdAZagFan
02-18-2017, 05:22 PM
love it. so true.

haven't seen many Duke games this season, yet a handful of KU games.

unbelievable favorable calls....and NO calls vs them.

it was WVU last wk...and Baylor this wk. The norm in Lawrence.

The one that surprised me was when they beat K-State in Kansas when the game winning basket came after at least 4-5 steps and no traveling call...

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:23 PM
UW just took the lead, timeout Arizona. Anybody that doesn't recognize Fultz' talent...I have no words.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 05:25 PM
Carolina up 34-22 at the half. UVa is fading fast.

UNC might the most impressive team overall I've seen this season.

I like Baylor's rebounding, WVU's bigs and clutch play, Duke's shooting, Villanova's guard play, Louisville's athleticism, Virginia's defense, Kansas skill and moxy, Arizona's talent, UCLA's length and shooting, Oregon's slashing, but time and time again...

UNC has the best attributes of everyone.

Wrong thread, but my most feared team of all are the Tarheels.

They can shoot, slash, rebound, score, and defend. Not to mention one of the greatest coaches of all-time.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 05:26 PM
The one that surprised me was when they beat K-State in Kansas when the game winning basket came after at least 4-5 steps and no traveling call...

Forget about that one! The list goes on...

No team I've seen gets the calls their way like KU does...holy moly

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 05:36 PM
I love Bill Walton's spirit but man, he drives me insane.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:37 PM
Little bit of breathing room for the Cats now, up 60-53 w/ 10:40 left. Markannen had been quiet this half but had a nasty dunk on an O board. Now has 22 pts. and 11 reb.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:38 PM
I love Bill Walton's spirit but man, he drives me insane.


yep, I have the volume turned way down

U Zig, I Zag
02-18-2017, 05:43 PM
I love Bill Walton's spirit but man, he drives me insane.

I heard they have to use special cameras at the games he calls. Normal cameras are unable to capture the rainbow aura he naturally gives off.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:44 PM
65-58 Arizona 7:20 to go, Huskies still aren't folding

Markannen w/ 24 and 12
Trier w/ 17

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 05:49 PM
65-58 Arizona 7:20 to go, Huskies still aren't folding

Markannen w/ 24 and 12
Trier w/ 17

Not accusing anything, and I love Markannen's game as much as anyone, yet he's become oddly ripped the last 2 months. Even since we played them.

Not just rapid growth but rapid muscle growth -- size and definition. Usually one or the other...but props to him and the S&C Coach at Arizona.

Impressed.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:52 PM
69-65 4:30 left. Fultz hits a 3, Dawgs still hanging around.

Man, if this team played like this all year, there's no way they only have 2 conference wins.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 05:53 PM
Not accusing anything, and I love Markannen's game as much as anyone, yet he's become oddly ripped the last 2 months. Even since we played them.

Not just rapid growth but rapid muscle growth -- size and definition. Usually one or the other...but props to him and the S&C Coach at Arizona.

Impressed.

He's had an impressive physique for a rangy guy the whole time he's been in the US. Can't say I've noticed him adding bulk during the course of the season.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 06:00 PM
Why is Arizona milking clock? It's only a 1 possession game. Doesn't make sense.

TexasZagFan
02-18-2017, 06:00 PM
Virginia is getting smoked.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 06:02 PM
Virginia is getting smoked.

I think lack of talent is catching up w/ them

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 06:07 PM
couple lucky breaks for the Cats, should have it now
up 73-68 w/ 44 sec. left, have possession

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 06:09 PM
Lute is in the house. Not sure that he travels to all the away games.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 06:10 PM
Arizona 76-68 final.

willandi
02-18-2017, 06:15 PM
Watching BYU/ SMC. Do you think the black legs of the BYU players are panty hose or do they wear garter belts?

TexasZagFan
02-18-2017, 06:20 PM
Watching BYU/ SMC. Do you think the black legs of the BYU players are panty hose or do they wear garter belts?

Undergarment extension?

willandi
02-18-2017, 06:21 PM
Undergarment extension?

So garter belts?

CDC84
02-18-2017, 06:36 PM
Various thoughts from the day:

I hate to keep bringing this up because Arizona is my second favorite team in college basketball, but analysts needs to stop using the Trier thing whenever Gonzaga's win over Arizona comes up in conversation. When you factor in this performance tonight at Washington, and the fact that they were drilled to pieces at Oregon, there is very little to suggest that the team is that much better now than it was when Gonzaga played them in the Staples Center in early December. Yes, they won at UCLA (who can't defend a decent team to save their lives), but they just haven't been that much more impressive since Trier came back. It's not like the Cats have transformed into some kind of powerhouse since Trier's return.

If Kansas is in a tight game in the final minute, how can you pick against them?? How many 2 or 3 point wins can you pull out of your rear end? And against good teams! You even get to win due to missed walking calls.

I have said it once and I will say it again.....the Florida State athletic dept. needs to hire sports psychologists for their men's basketball team. They need to imagine that all their games are played in Tallahassee. How can a team with that much team lose by 14 at Pitt.....a Pitt team that was smashed by 50 or so by Louisville? I do not trust Florida State at all in the tourney. They have serious issues playing away from home. But what's maddening is that they are talented enough to beat a #1 seed.

Is Izzo going to miss the tournament? MSU is very, very much on the bubble, and their program has a huge streak going for consecutive NCAA tournaments made.

What is with Duke's inability to defend a close to .500 Wake Forest team? 99-94 at Cameron Indoor Stadium? Where's the defense??

Villanova continues on their demolition path towards the number one overall seed. The Big East isn't what it was when everyone was healthy. I wouldn't be surprised if they go unbeaten until March Madness.

TexasZagFan
02-18-2017, 06:41 PM
BYU crowd not nearly as active as they were when we were in town.

TexasZagFan
02-18-2017, 06:43 PM
Various thoughts from the day:

I hate to keep bringing this up because Arizona is my second favorite team in college basketball, but analysts needs to stop using the Trier thing whenever Gonzaga's win over Arizona comes up in conversation. When you factor in this performance tonight at Washington, and the fact that they were drilled to pieces at Oregon, there is very little to suggest that the team is that much better now than it was when Gonzaga played them in the Staples Center in early December. Yes, they won at UCLA (who can't defend a decent team to save their lives), but they just haven't been that much more impressive since Trier came back. It's not like the Cats have transformed into some kind of powerhouse since Trier's return.

If Kansas is in a tight game in the final minute, how can you pick against them?? How many 2 or 3 point wins can you pull out of your rear end? And against good teams! You even get to win due to missed walking calls.

I have said it once and I will say it again.....the Florida State athletic dept. needs to hire sports psychologists for their men's basketball team. They need to imagine that all their games are played in Tallahassee. How can a team with that much team lose by 14 at Pitt.....a Pitt team that was smashed by 50 or so by Louisville? I do not trust Florida State at all in the tourney. They have serious issues playing away from home. But what's maddening is that they are talented enough to beat a #1 seed.

Is Izzo going to miss the tournament? MSU is very, very much on the bubble, and their program has a huge streak going for consecutive NCAA tournaments made.

What is with Duke's inability to defend a close to .500 Wake Forest team? 99-94 at Cameron Indoor Stadium? Where's the defense??

Villanova continues on their demolition path towards the number one overall seed. The Big East isn't what it was when everyone was healthy. I wouldn't be surprised if they go unbeaten until March Madness.

IMO, Zags moved up to third #1 seed, Villanova and Kansas solidified their positions. Those are the only two teams that concern me, and we wouldn't meet them until Final Four. We should be rested and healed up when Madness commences.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 06:56 PM
CDC, I don't think the talking heads are gonna drop that talking point. Anybody that has been watching Arizona knows they've been a work in progress since Trier came back. You really can't even use tonight's game to form an opinion because they had 2 starters out. Trier has been up and down. It's obvious he can be an impact player, but at times it seems like his return has had a detrimental effect on the team.

You also can't ignore PJC being out. Some GU fans look at his stats and completely write him off. That makes about as much sense as looking at Tillie's stats and saying him being out is no big deal. GU fans know Tillie's value isn't reflected by his stats. Kinda the same deal w/ PJC. He's the only true PG on the roster. Allen does his best but being a playmaker and running the offense just isn't his forte. Whether PJC starts or not, when he plays he has a knack for getting open shots for his teammates. His overall shooting % aren't very good but he's been drilling the 3 ball the last several games. He was really good behind the arc in conference games last year.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The game happened. GU won. It's not like Arizona was terrible before Trier came back, they were 17-2. It's a really good win on GU's resume. If detractors weren't pointing to Trier and PJC being out, they'd find something else.

sittingon50
02-18-2017, 06:59 PM
Oral Roberts 72
SO. DAKOTA 86

St. Francis 75
BRYANT 79

MISS. VALL. ST. 69
Prairie View 82

Grand Canyon 77
UTAH VALLEY 71

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 07:04 PM
How did BYU lose to Utah Valley? 3-8 conference record in the terrible WAC.

sittingon50
02-18-2017, 07:06 PM
SMC 41-30 @ half, same as GU vs Pac.

CDC84
02-18-2017, 07:07 PM
CDC, I don't think the talking heads are gonna drop that talking point. Anybody that has been watching Arizona knows they've been a work in progress since Trier came back. You really can't even use tonight's game to form an opinion because they had 2 starters out. Trier has been up and down. It's obvious he can be an impact player, but at times it seems like his return has had a detrimental effect on the team.

You also can't ignore PJC being out. Some GU fans look at his stats and completely write him off. That makes about as much sense as looking at Tillie's stats and saying him being out is no big deal. GU fans know Tillie's value isn't reflected by his stats. Kinda the same deal w/ PJC. He's the only true PG on the roster. Allen does his best but being a playmaker and running the offense just isn't his forte. Whether PJC starts or not, when he plays he has a knack for getting open shots for his teammates. His overall shooting % aren't very good but he's been drilling the 3 ball the last several games. He was really good behind the arc in conference games last year.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The game happened. GU won. It's not like Arizona was terrible before Trier came back, they were 17-2. It's a really good win on GU's resume. If detractors weren't pointing to Trier and PJC being out, they'd find something else.

As I mentioned in a post the other day (and you acknowledged it), I think the fact that PJC was out was a much bigger deal than Trier being out of the GU game because 1) He's really the only true PG on the roster 2) The injury happened right before the Gonzaga game. Sean and his staff had very little time prepare a game plan for playing GU without PJC. Anyone doubting PJC's importance needs to watch the first 15 minutes of their game at Cal from earlier this season.

CdAZagFan
02-18-2017, 07:08 PM
BYU crowd not nearly as active as they were when we were in town.

I was thinking the same thing... Even though they were down 10 against us also, it was pretty loud in there still. Not tonight.

CDC84
02-18-2017, 07:10 PM
Not to take anything away from the way SMC is taking it to BYU, but the atmosphere at the Marriott Center is nowhere near what it was when Gonzaga played there. Not even close.

It still doesn't explain how they managed to lose to Utah Valley at home. Gees.

TexasZagFan
02-18-2017, 07:14 PM
Might as well root for SMC, BYU's not going anywhere in postseason. WCC needs two teams in the Dance.

CdAZagFan
02-18-2017, 07:15 PM
Childs down... Hope it's not serious.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 07:16 PM
always SO impressed with SMC unless they are playing us.

Testament to our Zags for out-playing the Gaels, but this team is good.

Only achilles heel -- lack of quickness on defense and post defense outside Landale.

They are smart, hustle, and make the right decision on nearly every play. Not to mention one of the best shooting teams in NCAA.

Could quite easily make a Sweet 16, but probably their ceiling...as a more athletic team will overwhelm them.

Amazing how good they look outside Gonzaga.

CdAZagFan
02-18-2017, 07:17 PM
always SO impressed with SMC unless they are playing us.

Testament to our Zags for out-playing the Gaels, but this team is good.

Only achilles heel -- lack of quickness on defense and post defense outside Landale.

They are smart, hustle, and make the right decision on nearly every play. Not to mention one of the best shooting teams in NCAA.

Could quite easily make a Sweet 16, but probably their ceiling...as a more athletic team will overwhelm them.

Amazing how good they look outside Gonzaga.

I thought they are handling that 1-3-1 zone of BYU much better than we did - getting wide open 3-point shots off of it.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 07:18 PM
UCLA leading USC 63-48 w/ 14:12 left.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 07:18 PM
Not to take anything away from the way SMC is taking it to BYU, but the atmosphere at the Marriott Center is nowhere near what it was when Gonzaga played there. Not even close.

It still doesn't explain how they managed to lose to Utah Valley at home. Gees.

Noticed this as well. Even when we went up 19, the crowd was INSANE and INTENSE!

Really tame tonight.

The fan frustration is palpable. BYU's defense is woeful. They have terrific talent too, so makes no sense.

BYU starts all 4* & 5* prospects, save Elijah and he was the leading scorer at Elon.

I've always rolled my eyes over the "its everyone's Superbowl when Gonzaga comes to town" comment, but the more I watch WCC games, the more I believe it.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 07:22 PM
Noticed this as well. Even when we went up 19, the crowd was INSANE and INTENSE!

Really tame tonight.

The fan frustration is palpable. BYU's defense is woeful. They have terrific talent too, so makes no sense.

BYU starts all 4* prospects, save Elijah and he was the leading scorer at Elon.

I've always rolled my eyes over the "its everyone's Superbowl when Gonzaga comes to town" comment, but the more I watch WCC games, the more I believe it.

I've never understood that mentality, from either fans or players. Instead of having your whole season hinge on 1 game, why not try to play up to your capabilities every game? If BYU did that, they might be a bubble team right now. Quite frankly I don't even think they'll go to the NIT at this rate.


edited--I thought the same thing watching UW against Arizona today. There's no way the Huskies should be a paltry 2-13 in conference, and yet they are.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 07:25 PM
Fitzner was a Zag-killer last year and has been quiet this year.

The last 2 games he's been their best player.

Confidence rising. Scoring from outside-inside, driving, etc.

Impressive.

sittingon50
02-18-2017, 07:28 PM
Parking lot @ the Marriott Center should be a little easier to navigate tonight.

CDC84
02-18-2017, 07:29 PM
Before BYU can seriously consider challenging Gonzaga, they need to figure out how to beat SMC. Randy Bennett owns them. In fact, SMC may have played better against BYU since they joined the WCC than Gonzaga has.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 07:29 PM
You heard it here first--Lonzo Ball is better than Steph Curry....according to Daddy Ball. Taking delusion to grand new heights. Wow!

edited--and all 3 of his kids are gonna be in the NBA All Star game soon

spike_jr
02-18-2017, 07:30 PM
The announcers have mentioned a couple of times that BYU's bench has only scored 3 points total in their last 2 games. There is a serious drop off after their starting 5

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 07:30 PM
Before BYU can seriously consider challenging Gonzaga, they need to figure out how to beat SMC. Randy Bennett owns them. In fact, SMC may have played better against BYU since they joined the WCC than Gonzaga has.

Early highlights show hermansen has been great. Is that how it's looking too? I just turned it on

CDC84
02-18-2017, 07:30 PM
If SMC wins this and their next two, do they get in the dance?

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 07:33 PM
If SMC wins this and their next two, do they get in the dance?

I think so. I think they better at least win their first game in the WCC tournament to make sure. I don't think losing to BYU late would harm them any. Could be wrong though.

Goshzagit
02-18-2017, 07:36 PM
If SMC wins this and their next two, do they get in the dance?

They more than deserve it. Same team as last season, and they should have danced.

I'd consider St Mary's a Top-20 team. No more no less.

They deserve a reasonable seed, but based on their schedule, I'd say 9-11 seed. Althought Lunardi has them higher.

I think they could sneak into the S16 this season, especially if Naar and Rahon have "on" nights. They've somewhat regressed, while Landale, Hermanson, et al have improved immensely.

If Fitzner continues to expand his game, they could be a cinderella type team.

They really lack defensive athleticism needed to go far though...

TexasZagFan
02-18-2017, 07:40 PM
I can see it coming now. SMC is going to beat BYU by 20, which will taint our victory in Provo.

CDC84
02-18-2017, 07:41 PM
Has anyone ever asked if Lonzo Ball going to be able to get that horrible looking (but effective) jump shot off in the NBA? Seems like tall NBA, athletic guards would swat it right back at him.

sittingon50
02-18-2017, 07:43 PM
http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=17407363

Kong-Kool-Aid
02-18-2017, 07:46 PM
If SMC wins this and their next two, do they get in the dance?


nope, they dont beat us they arent in.

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 07:46 PM
Emery = Carlino?

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 07:48 PM
http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=17407363

:lmao:

CDC84
02-18-2017, 07:50 PM
I don't know if anyone said anything about it in this thread, but the UConn ladies team almost got beat by....of all teams....Tulane, who was 16-10 entering tonight's game:

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400911806

That is not the kind of team who I thought would end UConn's winning streak, but it almost happened. Tulane had a chance to tie it with a halfcourt heave at the end.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 07:58 PM
If SMC wins this and their next two, do they get in the dance?

Yes.

Katz just suggested the WCC needs to go back to a double bye set-up for the top two finishers in the regular season. Protect them from the bottom feeders, etc. Katz also said the Zags are hoping to get Tillie back for the WCC Tourney

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 07:59 PM
Yes.

Katz just suggested the WCC needs to go back to a double bye set-up for the top two finishers in the regular season. Protect them from the bottom feeders, etc. Katz also said the Zags are hoping to get Tillie back for the WCC Tourney

Yup

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 07:59 PM
I can see it coming now. SMC is going to beat BYU by 20, which will taint our victory in Provo.

You're seeing things.

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 08:00 PM
Sorry Reno. Didn't see that in original time I saw it. My bad.

CDC84
02-18-2017, 08:04 PM
The committee, rightly or wrongly, took a ton of heat for not putting SMC in the dance last season. Especially when you consider how bad the field was talent wise, relatively speaking, to previous fields in the expanded bracket era. I think if they win their next two and get into the WCC final, they are in for sure. In a normal season I would say not beating Gonzaga is a reason to not be allowed in, but GU is unbeaten and the number team in the country. SMC is not expected to beat GU. The Arlington loss hurts, but if they don't lose another game besides to GU, I just can't see them not getting in. If they were to drop a game early in the WCC tourney....who knows, a flirtation with the play in game.

sideshow06
02-18-2017, 08:07 PM
nope, they dont beat us they arent in.

That's a pretty dumb observation. Sorry. Calling it what it is.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 08:08 PM
Sorry Reno. Didn't see that in original time I saw it. My bad.

I was horribly offended. . .

sideshow06
02-18-2017, 08:09 PM
Emery = Carlino?

Yes. With just a dash of Grayson Allen.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 08:13 PM
That's a pretty dumb observation. Sorry. Calling it what it is.

Yes it is. But he has been writing the same thing since 2/11/17 so you can't expect him to change. Kind of like the pundits who say (over and over again) the Zags always disappoint in the NCAA tournament. It's just one guy's opinion.

Gaels are a quality team. They deserve an at-large bid (if they do not win the autobid in Vegas). . .IMO, etc.

sideshow06
02-18-2017, 08:13 PM
If SMC wins this and their next two, do they get in the dance?

If they did that and then lost their first WCC tourney game they would probably sit just outside the Top 25 with an RPI likely just inside 30 WORST CASE. They may not get a good seed but they are in no doubt.

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 08:13 PM
Yes. With just a dash of Grayson Allen.

Lol totally can see that lol

gonzagafan62
02-18-2017, 08:20 PM
If they did that and then lost their first WCC tourney game they would probably sit just outside the Top 25 with an RPI likely just inside 30 WORST CASE. They may not get a good seed but they are in no doubt.

I agree. I've been absolutely skeptical of SMC all year long. But looking back on their impressive road win at Dayton and thrashing a decent BYU team @ Mariott is actually pretty impressive. I predicted SMC would lose this game .... but this was a damn statement. I don't think there's any way if SMC wins the last two regular season games that you can leave them out regardless of what he opens... I think they win out to the title game though...


Let's fact check 2013 for gaels:

They were 0-3 vs Gonzaga but made Tournament as an 11. I believe they won their first game and got really close to beating Memphis. They were a lot better than 11 seed... I think Delly missed a game winner at the end... maybe it was a tying shot

SMC is in a much better spot than 2013. They also beat Nevada whose RPI is good. They will easily get in if they win out and lose to Gonzaga for a third time. It's not close this time

maynard g krebs
02-18-2017, 08:48 PM
couple lucky breaks for the Cats, should have it now
up 73-68 w/ 44 sec. left, have possession

BS charge calls on the Huskies. Hardly lucky breaks; refs protecting their record/seed.

maynard g krebs
02-18-2017, 08:54 PM
That's a pretty dumb observation. Sorry. Calling it what it is.

Agree.

caduceus
02-18-2017, 08:59 PM
Our next opponent (USD) and SCU are in OT on Root.

ZagaZags
02-18-2017, 08:59 PM
San Diego @ Santa Clara in OT. USD 50 SC 52 with 1:45 to go. Santa Clara or USF will get the lucky 4 seed in the WCC tournament. (Sarcasm alert.)

caduceus
02-18-2017, 09:03 PM
Double OT USD vs. SCU. 52 apiece.

ZagaZags
02-18-2017, 09:03 PM
USD & Santa Clara going double OT. 52-52.

ZagaZags
02-18-2017, 09:04 PM
Double OT USD vs. SCU.

Jinx! :roll:

caduceus
02-18-2017, 09:08 PM
Jinx! :roll:

😜😜😜

caduceus
02-18-2017, 09:15 PM
USD wins on a buzzer beater. Good for them.

ZagOD7540
02-18-2017, 09:39 PM
We needed SD to win. That keeps BYU one game ahead and in 3rd place. They laid an egg against Saint Mary tonight. It would be nice to see Saint Mary/BYU as the #2/#3 seed in tourney. Then we avoid having to possibly face them both in Vegas.

sittingon50
02-18-2017, 09:53 PM
Think I would be more concerned with SCU or usf. They both play harder & smarter.

sideshow06
02-18-2017, 10:00 PM
BYU was flawed from the get go, but now, with Davis and Rose out for the season and basically no one on the bench to bail them out, I think they're an easier out than SCU (with far-improved coaching and Brownridge capable of doing Brownridge things) or USF (well coached, SMC-like with less talent). As an SMC fan I don't mind seeing BYU again. I think they're an easier team to wear down AND if we do wind up losing, the PERCEPTION is that it's not a bad loss (where RPI-wise it's a worse loss than to USF). Still, it's hard to not want them to drop to 4th or worse just for the schadenfraude.

ZagOD7540
02-18-2017, 10:02 PM
BYU was flawed from the get go, but now, with Collins and Rose out for the season and basically no one on the bench to bail them out, I think they're an easier out than SCU (with far-improved coaching and Brownridge capable of doing Brownridge things) or USF (well coached, SMC-like with less talent). As an SMC fan I don't mind seeing BYU again. I think they're an easier team to wear down AND if we do wind up losing, the PERCEPTION is that it's not a bad loss (where RPI-wise it's a worse loss than to USF). Still, it's hard to not want them to drop to 4th or worse just for the schadenfraude.


Who's Collins?

sideshow06
02-18-2017, 10:04 PM
Yeah, fixed that. Davis. Must have been thinking Collinsworth.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 10:13 PM
BS charge calls on the Huskies. Hardly lucky breaks; refs protecting their record/seed.

Did you watch more than the last couple minutes? Huskies were getting a tremendous amount of home cooking in the first half. Kind of evens out.

seacatfan
02-18-2017, 10:39 PM
Hey maynard if you want to get into conspiracies, Commissioner Scott has a bit of a vendetta against Coach Miller so I don't think the Pac 12 is really all about protecting Arizona. Of course you weren't hoping Arizona would lose to help your Ducks win the conference regular season, right?

soccerdud
02-19-2017, 12:00 AM
as i've said other places, i'm torn on the question of what the committee will do with SMC if they don't win the tournament. they pass the eye test. they are imo a clear top-20 team. their record is outstanding. but if you look at the things the committee says they care about (direct quote from chair of committee: "The things you want to look for … are who did you play, who did you beat, and where did you play them? Those are the three most important general terms to look at."), they aren't in that much better of a position than last year. their top 3 wins last year (away and home vs us, home vs BYU) were all BETTER than the top 3 wins this year (@dayton, home vs NV, @BYU) according to kenpom rankings and, imo, general perception. and we all know how that turned out. you could make the argument that the lack of losses is a big deal this year, but if you looked at the top-16 released just last week, by the actual committee, it's pretty clear that they aren't holding losses against teams' resumes in the same way that we (and the media) do. we certainly didn't get any benefit of the doubt for having 0.

hopefully they will right last year's wrong this year, but i have yet to see an argument that will clearly be compelling to the group that left smc out of the tournament last year, would have happily done the same to us, and just put us 4th overall in their preview. there's apparently something really wrong with those people-- but, unfortunately, they are the ones who get to decide.

ZagaZags
02-19-2017, 12:04 AM
At 28-4, Saint Mary's will make the tournament.

soccerdud
02-19-2017, 12:09 AM
At 28-4, Saint Mary's will make the tournament.

based on what? pure record? the eye test? since when do mid-majors with 1 top-50 win get the benefit of the doubt on those? don't try to convince me. try to show me how that will be convincing to the committee. cause there's a lot of history on my side of the argument, along with a clear trend line showing midmajor at-large bids going down over the last decade or so.

god, i hope you're right. but that isn't an argument and it sure as hell isn't convincing to anyone who's been paying attention and isn't already in agreement with you.

maynard g krebs
02-19-2017, 12:27 AM
their top 3 wins last year (away and home vs us, home vs BYU) were all BETTER than the top 3 wins this year (@dayton, home vs NV, @BYU) according to kenpom rankings and, imo, general perception.

11 seed says the committee last year rated the Zags 41-44. Dayton this yr is rated higher than that, I think.

maynard g krebs
02-19-2017, 12:29 AM
Of course you weren't hoping Arizona would lose to help your Ducks win the conference regular season, right?

Moot point. I don't get my hopes up about things that I know for a virtual certainty aren't gonna happen. I am hoping UCLA beats Zona next week, of course.

soccerdud
02-19-2017, 12:55 AM
11 seed says the committee last year rated the Zags 41-44. Dayton this yr is rated higher than that, I think.

you may be right. trying to piece it together, but i believe that last year's zags were slightly better in kenpom and slightly worse in rpi than dayton at this point. might be a wash. certainly could be pretty similar or advantage dayton if they win out. after the zags' run through the NCAA tourney our kenpom ranking went up ~10, and i didn't take that into account when comparing the quality of those wins, as i should have.

also smc's rpi this season is significantly better than either of ours were last year.

and... those are the best arguments i've heard or been able to come up with. still nervous. hoping it's for naught.

Rangerzag
02-19-2017, 05:24 AM
Gael's will be in.

Saint Mary's current RPI: 21

Wins:

29 Dayton Away

45 Nevada Home

75 Stanford Away

88 Brigham Young Home

88 Brigham Young Away

92 San Francisco Away

92 San Francisco Home

Losses:

4 Zags Away

4 Zags Home

44 Texas-Arlington Home


ref: http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-rpi

jpn17
02-19-2017, 06:21 AM
based on what? pure record? the eye test? since when do mid-majors with 1 top-50 win get the benefit of the doubt on those? don't try to convince me. try to show me how that will be convincing to the committee. cause there's a lot of history on my side of the argument, along with a clear trend line showing midmajor at-large bids going down over the last decade or so.

god, i hope you're right. but that isn't an argument and it sure as hell isn't convincing to anyone who's been paying attention and isn't already in agreement with you.

This is my issue as well. It's not that I don't want to see SMC get in or that I don't think they are good enough. I really do want to see the Gaels make the tournament as they are a very good team. It's the selection committee that worries me. If SMC does win out to the WCC championship and drops the final to the Zags then I do think their resume looks better than last year so they do have that going for them, but I'm still not convinced it's a guarantee and I definitely don't trust the selection committee to do the right thing. Seems like everyone would rather have 12 ACC teams in the tournament.

gonstu
02-19-2017, 06:31 AM
Think I would be more concerned with SCU or usf. They both play harder & smarter.

Zags beat both USF and SCU by 35 last time against them. Emery/Haws could get hot and hit like 50 3's, and of course they've got Mika. I think zags steamroll any of them in the semis though. Andy Katz after SMC game last night said WCC should go back to double-bye for the wcc tournament to protect the top 2 seeds. I AGREE!

Kong-Kool-Aid
02-19-2017, 07:03 AM
That's a pretty dumb observation. Sorry. Calling it what it is.

How is it dumb? Their resume was better last year and they didn't get in. (Hell, OUR resume was better last year and we wouldn't have gotten in if we didn't win the AUTO BID)

I'm not saying they don't deserve to be in but lets call it as the committee has proven in the past they don't value mid-majors who don't go out and schedule a good OOC schedule.

So I think your observation is dumb.

kyle dixon
02-19-2017, 08:18 AM
I believe SMC gets in. I see them in the 7 to 10 seed range unless they win the wcc tournament.

U Zig, I Zag
02-19-2017, 08:24 AM
I think SMC is better this year no doubt. But like last year, I think they may get left out if they don't make WCC finals or drop one on the way there.

seacatfan
02-19-2017, 09:26 AM
(Hell, OUR resume was better last year and we wouldn't have gotten in if we didn't win the AUTO BID)


I don't know about that. Other than UConn early before Karno got hurt, last year's Zags lost EVERY game they played against a decent team last year until BYU at the end of the regular season.

soccerdud
02-19-2017, 12:22 PM
Gael's will be in.

Saint Mary's current RPI: 21

Wins:

29 Dayton Away

45 Nevada Home

75 Stanford Away

88 Brigham Young Home

88 Brigham Young Away

92 San Francisco Away

92 San Francisco Home

Losses:

4 Zags Away

4 Zags Home

44 Texas-Arlington Home


ref: http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-rpi

compare the "nitty gritty" reports (the one thing that is in front of every member of the comittee)

2015-2016 (http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/nitty-live)
Saint Mary's College 28-6 29 126 9-1 19 98 19-1 7-4 2-1 2-3 5-1 3-2 18-0 193 71

2016-2017 http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2017/nitty-live
Saint Mary's College 24-3 16 74 10-1 21 66 14-2 9-1 1-0 2-3 5-0 9-0 8-0 165 16

sorry, i wanted to do column headings, but couldn't get alignment right. point is, most of the rpi and sos bump is from making a concerted shift to get fewer 200+ games and more 100+ games OOC. the records vs the top two bands of rpi (i.e. all the top-100 gamess), the quality of their "marquee" and road wins, etc are almost exactly the same as last year. listing them out doesn't change that. also, i'm pretty worried about UNR falling out of top-50 and BYU falling out of top-100. if that happens and they don't beat us, they are clearly in a worse position than they were last year, because i don't see the committee giving them huge credit for shifting a bunch of wins from 200+ rpi to 100-200 rpi, which is the biggest positive difference from last season, by these numbers.

again, i hope i'm wrong. but listing the schedule and the rpi numbers of their opponents is hardly compelling when the summary that the committee uses shows so clearly the similarity to last year's team in terms of actual on-court resume (and also clearly *how* they improved their sos and rpi, i.e. by playing middle-quality teams [that mostly will be paying to play post season ball, or won't at all] instead of low-quality teams). their, admittedly, somewhat better ooc scheduling this year became 2 good/decent wins, 1 home and 1 away-- that, when comparing to last season, are effectively canceled out by not getting a win against us.

most likely, on selection sunday they will have 1 win against a team in the tournament, unless UNR wins the MWC tourney (they certainly might, they are currently in a 3-way tie for first place).

maynard g krebs
02-19-2017, 12:59 PM
Their resume was better last year and they didn't get in.

They got swept by Pepperdine last year, and lost to BYU. So no.

gonzagafan62
02-19-2017, 02:22 PM
compare the "nitty gritty" reports (the one thing that is in front of every member of the comittee)

2015-2016 (http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/nitty-live)
Saint Mary's College 28-6 29 126 9-1 19 98 19-1 7-4 2-1 2-3 5-1 3-2 18-0 193 71

2016-2017 http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2017/nitty-live
Saint Mary's College 24-3 16 74 10-1 21 66 14-2 9-1 1-0 2-3 5-0 9-0 8-0 165 16

sorry, i wanted to do column headings, but couldn't get alignment right. point is, most of the rpi and sos bump is from making a concerted shift to get fewer 200+ games and more 100+ games OOC. the records vs the top two bands of rpi (i.e. all the top-100 gamess), the quality of their "marquee" and road wins, etc are almost exactly the same as last year. listing them out doesn't change that. also, i'm pretty worried about UNR falling out of top-50 and BYU falling out of top-100. if that happens and they don't beat us, they are clearly in a worse position than they were last year, because i don't see the committee giving them huge credit for shifting a bunch of wins from 200+ rpi to 100-200 rpi, which is the biggest positive difference from last season, by these numbers.

again, i hope i'm wrong. but listing the schedule and the rpi numbers of their opponents is hardly compelling when the summary that the committee uses shows so clearly the similarity to last year's team in terms of actual on-court resume (and also clearly *how* they improved their sos and rpi, i.e. by playing middle-quality teams [that mostly will be paying to play post season ball, or won't at all] instead of low-quality teams). their, admittedly, somewhat better ooc scheduling this year became 2 good/decent wins, 1 home and 1 away-- that, when comparing to last season, are effectively canceled out by not getting a win against us.

most likely, on selection sunday they will have 1 win against a team in the tournament, unless UNR wins the MWC tourney (they certainly might, they are currently in a 3-way tie for first place).

While all this is true, you have to remember one simple thing.....

If a team gets snubbed, and then the next year has the same players back and has Top 25 hype, if that same team loses less games and is consistently drilling decent (not great) opponents the same team usually gets the benefit of the doubt the next season. Whether UNR is actually in the top 50 or not really doesn't matter IMO. SMC if they win out to WCC finals or even loses to BYU in WCC tournament (which they probably won't) will be in.

They've played the #1 team twice already and clearly are better than most of the bubble IMO. Again 2013 for SMC lost all three to GU (and lost all three) - and also lost to Pacific, Georgia Tech, Northern Iowa and got in as a 11 seed.....

They are definitely in better shape than the 2013 team was with a lot more margin for error

Kong-Kool-Aid
02-19-2017, 02:27 PM
The point it, this committee has shown a track record of snubbing mid major teams.

Those of you feeling they are a sure thing are on perilous footing.

Look, they gave the only undefeated team in the NCAAs the 4th best #1 seed... we were nearly a 2.

gonzagafan62
02-19-2017, 02:32 PM
The point it, this committee has shown a track record of snubbing mid major teams.

Those of you feeling they are a sure thing are on perilous footing.

Look, they gave the only undefeated team in the NCAAs the 4th best #1 seed... we were nearly a 2.

You're def right about snubbing mid major teams, but SMC likely isn't one of them. It's going to be one (or two) of these teams: Wichita State, Illinois State, Nevada, and Middle Tennessee

I feel ya though, the snubs for mid majors is getting ridiculous. I heard Pittsburgh is on the bubble.... they're 4-10 in conference lol

soccerdud
02-19-2017, 02:37 PM
If a team gets snubbed, and then the next year has the same players back and has Top 25 hype, if that same team loses less games and is consistently drilling decent (not great) opponents the same team usually gets the benefit of the doubt the next season.

Can you give me an example please? Must be applicable, i.e. mid major team with a lack of good wins. This seems to me more like wishful thinking/rationalization than something that actually has been shown to happen. But I could be wrong.

And re:2013... aren't most things more like they were last year than they were 4 years ago? I know I am. Is there some reason to think the committee is an exception?

Marcus
02-19-2017, 02:53 PM
Has the committee ever left a team out of the tournament that was ranked in the top 25 of both polls? I don't know the answer to this but I think it's more likely than not that a ranked SMC is included as an at large. They don't have much room for error though, especially when you see the resumes of last year and this year side by side like Soccer D provided.

gonzagafan62
02-19-2017, 02:55 PM
Can you give me an example please? Must be applicable, i.e. mid major team with a lack of good wins. This seems to me more like wishful thinking/rationalization than something that actually has been shown to happen. But I could be wrong.

And re:2013... aren't most things more like they were last year than they were 4 years ago? I know I am. Is there some reason to think the committee is an exception?

SMU is one that comes directly to mind.... Top 25 team left completely out of tournament the year before with a terrible non conference schedule..... next year they come back with Top 25 hype do exactly the same thing terrible non conference schedule and get a 6 seed #21-24 in country according to committee.

gonzagafan62
02-19-2017, 02:59 PM
Has the committee ever left a team out of the tournament that was ranked in the top 25 of both polls? I don't know the answer to this but I think it's more likely than not that a ranked SMC is included as an at large. They don't have much room for error though, especially when you see the resumes of last year and this year side by side like Soccer D provided.

Yes. SMU was left out as #25, however they did just lose to Houston in first round of AAC finals... but we're still a lock to many, including ESPN bubble watcher Eamonn Brennan

soccerdud
02-19-2017, 03:18 PM
SMU is one that comes directly to mind.... Top 25 team left completely out of tournament the year before with a terrible non conference schedule..... next year they come back with Top 25 hype do exactly the same thing terrible non conference schedule and get a 6 seed #21-24 in country according to committee.

That SMU team had 10 top 100 kenpom wins vs 4 (probably 5 after the WCC tourney) for smc this season... though the win at Dayton is better than any of SMU's that year.

Unfortunately it didn't look like the site I was using has ngr from that year and I'm too lazy to look up all those teams' rpis, but I'd imagine there is a pretty stark difference in terms of wins vs top 50 and top 100 bands based on the kenpom rankings.

Not to mention the fact that was a 3 bid league and they had a couple wins over a tourney team (UCONN)

sideshow06
02-19-2017, 06:13 PM
The lowest RPI team to ever get snubbed was Missouri St. in 2006 at 21. After that, the lowest RPI's were between 29-32. If SMC wins the next two and drops their opening game to the 7 seed (likely Pacific), they still likely have a Top 25 RPI and would be a historic level snub. The biggest differences between last year and this year: RPI and no bad losses. Those are two criteria the committee leans on heavily. Yes, the committee favors majors over mids when comparing bubble teams. SMC is not a bubble team unless they drop one of their next two.

MBAGael
02-19-2017, 06:25 PM
Using rpi wizard, if smc wins its next two, it ends the year with a rpi of 15 and sos of 81. We are currently kenpom 16. This would be our best year ever.

If zags win out, rpi will be 4 with a sos of 80.

Goes to show you how much of an impact the WCC has on sos. Makes sense because it's about 2/3 of our games.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-19-2017, 06:27 PM
Using rpi wizard, if smc wins its next two, it ends the year with a rpi of 15 and sos of 81. We are currently kenpom 16. This would be our best year ever.

If zags win out, rpi will be 4 with a sos of 80.

Goes to show you how much of an impact the WCC has on sos. Makes sense because it's about 2/3 of our games.

Good luck to the Zags and Gaels next weekend.

MBAGael
02-19-2017, 06:32 PM
Good luck to the Zags and Gaels next weekend.

Yes! Here's to hoping we both win out until the WCC championship.

gonzagafan62
02-19-2017, 06:38 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JHertz22/status/833161902054215680/photo/1

When Gonzaga gets their own category on bottom line in ESPN lol

Bogozags
02-19-2017, 06:41 PM
I think there is a lot of parity this season in most of the Power Five conferences. There is no B10 standout team, the ACC has three teams at the top, the P12 has three teams vying for league leaders and the only conference with a true conference leader is the B12 and Kansas. I'll bet the BEast will have six teams selected and due to the injuries at Creighton and Xavier they won't be seeded high.

SMC is a good basketball team but not great and ranked in the Top 25 in both polls but they really have not played anyone and just don't understand how they have a Top 25 RPI.

IMO SMC has only played four top 50 RPI schools and won two, UN-R at home and Dayton and they lost to UT-Arlington at home. If the sport's world feels our UA victory is tainted then they will feel the same about SMC's win at Dayton as they were down two starters.

I believe SMC will get into the tournament as long as they win the next two conference games regardless if they don't win a game in the WCC...I think WSU might have a harder time of getting in if they don't win their conference tourney. Schools such as NC Wilmington, Akron, UT-Arlington, Belmont, Middle TN, Monmouth, Rhode Island, Ill State, Utah and Pitt have more to worry about than SMC, if they don't win their conference tournament and all these schools have a good to decent RPI.

MBAGael
02-19-2017, 06:55 PM
Just to show you how much a p5 conference helps, Stanford has a rpi of 68 and their record is 12-13.

We actually beat Stanford at their place this year, a good win. The biggest difference between us this year vs last year is we don't have and bad losses. Many say we got hosed last year. Bottom line was we lost at home and on the road to Pepperdine last year, we win one of those and we probably dance last year.