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View Full Version : Gonzaga : quit the hating. Solid article.



Zags11
02-17-2017, 06:50 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dear-haters-youre-dead-wrong-about-gonzaga-whether-you-realize-it-or-not/

Goshzagit
02-17-2017, 06:56 AM
Gary P be preachin'!

wow.

Impressive article with impressive facts/stats.

zaguarxj
02-17-2017, 07:09 AM
It doesn't matter. This will not change anyone's mind. Look at the comments below the article. One mentions how GU does terrible in the tourney, ignoring all the points Parrish just made about how they actually play to seed for the most part. Another brings out the tired old "slow and unathletic" trope. It might go away when they get to the final four or beyond but probably not. They could win multiple NCAA tourneys and people will still say "they'd be middle of the pack in the ACC."

GonzaGAW
02-17-2017, 07:26 AM
i say hooray! yes, many will ignore facts and go with fake assumptions, but that should not stop a supporter from always being ready to defend with facts.
my favorite argument is Gonzaga is not a tournament flop, and as parrish points out they play to seed as consistently as rain.

that having been said perception is reality to so many, and that is why I do not even care if they win the tournament or lose in the semi final, yes get to the final four!!!! that should send away a good number of haters and bring us all one step closer to world peace.

zagfan24
02-17-2017, 07:28 AM
Loved this from Mark Titus:
"And just to be clear: I don’t think the Zags are the best team in the country just because they are undefeated. I think they’re undefeated because they’re the best team in the country."
https://theringer.com/college-basketball-power-rankings-tournament-selection-committee-ab88dd0515a5#.d3fbig1dy

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 07:40 AM
It doesn't matter. This will not change anyone's mind. Look at the comments below the article. One mentions how GU does terrible in the tourney, ignoring all the points Parrish just made about how they actually play to seed for the most part. Another brings out the tired old "slow and unathletic" trope. It might go away when they get to the final four or beyond but probably not. They could win multiple NCAA tourneys and people will still say "they'd be middle of the pack in the ACC."

Let's face it, these comments are nothing but jealousy. These haters can't take their blinders off to ask the difficult questions about their "power" programs, such as, "how come our school can't make the tournament with all of our top 25 recruiting classes?" Perhaps they don't develop their players like the Zags do.

Or, "how have the Zags been so competitive for so many years, without having the resources our power school has?" Not quite true nowadays, but our revenue growth is fairly recent.

The one mantra sure to continue on, probably well into the future, is the weakness of the WCC. That's up to the member schools, not us.

Zag_Dad
02-17-2017, 07:41 AM
Great article by Parrish. He does a fine job laying out the facts and organizing a logical argument for why the Haters should quit hating and realize that Gonzaga IS a good team/program. It is almost comical to read the comment section that follows his article. The haters ignore every point Parrish made and offer up the same criticisms about Gonzaga that Parrish just refuted.

I get it ... until we win a title or at least play in the FF we will always have the WCC albatross around our neck. Even then, we will hear how we got lucky, got coddled in a weak bracket, won when the field was weak or played against a better team that suffered injuries. WHATEVER... I'm with Gary P on this one ... Zags are good... get over it.

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 07:45 AM
It doesn't matter. This will not change anyone's mind. Look at the comments below the article. One mentions how GU does terrible in the tourney, ignoring all the points Parrish just made about how they actually play to seed for the most part. Another brings out the tired old "slow and unathletic" trope. It might go away when they get to the final four or beyond but probably not. They could win multiple NCAA tourneys and people will still say "they'd be middle of the pack in the ACC."

"Middle of the pack in the ACC" currently includes Notre Dame, Virginia, and Syracuse. I think we'd be more than competitive in that conference. My Dukie co-worker didn't like the prospect of having to travel all the way to Spokane for a conference game...too far for them to go. It's always something with the Blue Bloods.

LongIslandZagFan
02-17-2017, 07:47 AM
LMAO... he says all that... and you get people in the comments... saying exactly the things he is ridiculing people for thinking.

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 07:52 AM
LMAO... he says all that... and you get people in the comments... saying exactly the things he is ridiculing people for thinking.

In most years, we probably would be in the middle of the pack in the ACC. Not this year, and our program continues to improve year by year. I can't think of a Power conference that we wouldn't be at least in the top third, not only this year, but in years to come.

MontanaCoyote
02-17-2017, 08:23 AM
Gary P be preachin'!

wow.

Impressive article with impressive facts/stats.

The man did his homework!

hockeyzag
02-17-2017, 08:45 AM
Loved this from Mark Titus:
"And just to be clear: I don’t think the Zags are the best team in the country just because they are undefeated. I think they’re undefeated because they’re the best team in the country."
https://theringer.com/college-basketball-power-rankings-tournament-selection-committee-ab88dd0515a5#.d3fbig1dy


Great article by Parrish, love me some rational thinking in college hoops.

And Titus comes in with another fantastic ranking which came with added benefit of causing me to laugh out loud at work.

ZenZag
02-17-2017, 09:35 AM
From the Parrish article....

"Basketball seasons are all played independent of each other. No school’s past has anything to do with any team’s future as it relates to a single-elimination tournament of 40-minute games"

Not exactly true...the one consistent piece for the Zags over this time frame has been the coach. I do think Few is a great coach, and I think this season is a testament to that. But I have always felt he gets "tight" in the tourney, and his players have picked up on that vibe from him and played tight. However, when we have been challenged this year I have not gotten that same sense from him or the team. This team consistently seems to play in a loose, yet determined/intense, way. Hopefully that bodes well for March.

gonzagafan62
02-17-2017, 09:40 AM
From the Parrish article....

"Basketball seasons are all played independent of each other. No school’s past has anything to do with any team’s future as it relates to a single-elimination tournament of 40-minute games"

Not exactly true...the one consistent piece for the Zags over this time frame has been the coach. I do think Few is a great coach, and I think this season is a testament to that. But I have always felt he gets "tight" in the tourney, and his players have picked up on that vibe from him and played tight. However, when we have been challenged this year I have not gotten that same sense from him or the team. This team consistently seems to play in a loose, yet determined/intense, way. Hopefully that bodes well for March.

I think if he gets to a final four his time tightness will wear off.

I still bitter about not returning EMac into Syracuse game last year even with the early miscues.

It's okay though we had our chances. Just like we will this time.

Time to capitalize

MDABE80
02-17-2017, 10:23 AM
A few things:
1. Power 5 conferences will never give up power. They hate the concept of a small school out west in a tiny corner of a state being competitive and surely being no 1.

2. That 2013 team's loss ( no matter what the Gary P's of the world say) will not go away and will be held against GU till GU breaks through to a FF. Horrible loss at the time and it will never die as it really was an historical, shocking loss. We ran into a hot team who was hot at the right time. Simple. Bell was hurt. blah blah blah.

Still we lost. Hope were dashed. They same people who went very negative at the time are still out there AND this legendary loss just gets bigger in the brains of those predisposed.

3.Any team/coach with the record of the past 17-18 years will meet resistance. SO outstanding. There has to be a catch. Right? If there isn't one, the media/hater boys at large, will try to find one or even generate one. Ours is the WCC. It's not that weak but look back to what UW used to say before Romar ran for the gates. Same stuff.

4. In the end, there's just no substitute for winning. Run the table. Make it emphatic. One game at a time and don't look up. At this level and at this time, there is no substitute. Although, from some of the comments I read, we could go win the whole thing and many wouldn't know or care about it. Some of these guys are seriously stupid.

basketballzag
02-17-2017, 10:25 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dear-haters-youre-dead-wrong-about-gonzaga-whether-you-realize-it-or-not/

I would start countering the argument that Arizona didn't have Trier with Gonzaga didn't play Rem in that game from now on.

LongIslandZagFan
02-17-2017, 10:48 AM
I would start countering the argument that Arizona didn't have Trier with Gonzaga didn't play Rem in that game from now on.

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/gonzaga-air-guitar-celebration1.gif?w=640

BayAreaZagFan
02-17-2017, 11:34 AM
Some real basketball geniuses in the comments section:

"bar545
Love the backcourt ..Up front Meh"

I hate it when people use the word "meh" in a comment. Almost as bad as "(fill in the blank)... in 3,2,1."

"CutlassOwl
Vegas is taking bets on them losing in the 1st round for the 1st time in men's history that a 1 seed loses to a 16th seed."

Doesn't Vegas always take bets on the #1 seed losing in the first round? At least they have for awhile. I know I've seen it before.

"uofk_wildcat
....but, they are slow and not as athletic as some of the other teams out there"

I'll give him the "not as athletic as some of the other teams" - the same can be said for just about everyone. In this case, however, "some" is a very small number. But "slow"? Really?

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 11:39 AM
I think if he gets to a final four his time tightness will wear off.

I still bitter about not returning EMac into Syracuse game last year even with the early miscues.

It's okay though we had our chances. Just like we will this time.

Time to capitalize

Forgot about Emac. One bucket in the last 6:30, and it's a footnote rather than a demon to be exorcised.

I get the feeling that the coaching staff communicates more during the games now. Perhaps they all learned from that Syracuse game.

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 11:45 AM
A few things:
1. Power 5 conferences will never give up power. They hate the concept of a small school out west in a tiny corner of a state being competitive and surely being no 1.

2. That 2013 team's loss ( no matter what the Gary P's of the world say) will not go away and will be held against GU till GU breaks through to a FF. Horrible loss at the time and it will never die as it really was an historical, shocking loss. We ran into a hot team who was hot at the right time. Simple. Bell was hurt. blah blah blah.

Still we lost. Hope were dashed. They same people who went very negative at the time are still out there AND this legendary loss just gets bigger in the brains of those predisposed.

3.Any team/coach with the record of the past 17-18 years will meet resistance. SO outstanding. There has to be a catch. Right? If there isn't one, the media/hater boys at large, will try to find one or even generate one. Ours is the WCC. It's not that weak but look back to what UW used to say before Romar ran for the gates. Same stuff.

4. In the end, there's just no substitute for winning. Run the table. Make it emphatic. One game at a time and don't look up. At this level and at this time, there is no substitute. Although, from some of the comments I read, we could go win the whole thing and many wouldn't know or care about it. Some of these guys are seriously stupid.

Great job as always, Abe.

It took 12 seasons at Duke for Coach K to win his first title. Few's knocking on the door in his 18th season. I can live with that.

CDC84
02-17-2017, 12:19 PM
Just about very comment underneath the cbs and espn articles comes from BCS snobs.

I can't stand the "if Gonzaga were in the ACC they would have this record" type arguments. It's 100% speculation, and it's a worthless argument to have unless Gonzaga were located in, say, Richmond, Virginia. The people who say that GU would have a .500 record are clueless to GU's record vs. BCS teams over the past decade.

CDC84
02-17-2017, 12:27 PM
Regarding the 2013 loss, Parrish should've said that Wichita State hit 14 three pointers despite being a terrible three point shooting team all season. Everything that WSU did in that game was drastically contrary to what was in Gonzaga's scout. That included Ron Baker being even anything close to a NBA player.

Also, Gary Bell broke his foot in that game. Bell was GU's best perimeter defender and a starter. The Zags likely would've snuck that one out if Gary had not gotten hurt. If GU had beaten WSU, they had La Salle in the Sweet 16.

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 12:34 PM
Just about very comment underneath the cbs and espn articles comes from BCS snobs.

I can't stand the "if Gonzaga were in the ACC they would have this record" type arguments. It's 100% speculation, and it's a worthless argument to have unless Gonzaga were located in, say, Richmond, Virginia. The people who say that GU would have a .500 record are clueless to GU's record vs. BCS teams over the past decade.

I simply say, give us an extra $5-$10 million a year by being a member of your conference, and let the chips fall where they may.

I did that with a Dukie coworker, and he said the travel distance between ACC and GU is too much for ACC teams. It's like playing a never ending game of whack-a-mole. Turns into a waste of time.

CDC84
02-17-2017, 12:39 PM
Parrish and Norlander discuss his article in their latest podcast:

http://sports.cbsimg.net/swf/audio/AudioPlayer.swf?playlist=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.cst v.com%2Ffeeds%2Fmensbasketball.xml&hostname=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbssports.com&avEnabled=true&autoplay=true&isPopout=true&seekTo=0

zagfan24
02-17-2017, 01:14 PM
Just about very comment underneath the cbs and espn articles comes from BCS snobs.

I can't stand the "if Gonzaga were in the ACC they would have this record" type arguments. It's 100% speculation, and it's a worthless argument to have unless Gonzaga were located in, say, Richmond, Virginia. The people who say that GU would have a .500 record are clueless to GU's record vs. BCS teams over the past decade.

It also completely disregards that not being in a major conference is one of GU's biggest disadvantages in terms of recruiting. You can't just hypothetically place a Gonzaga team in a power conference without also assuming that the Zags would have that much more depth and recruiting prowess as a result.

CDC84
02-17-2017, 03:00 PM
Few, BTW, publicly acknowledged the mistake of not keeping EMac in the Syracuse game. He earned my respect for owing up to that one. EMac just needed to be sat down and cooled down and put back out there. McClellan was the reason the team made the NCAA tournament, the reason they made the sweet 16, and I am still miffed he didn't win the WCC tournament MVP. Heck he didn't even make the all tourney team, either.

For all these people he keep talking about how Arizona didn't haven't Trier when they faced Gonzaga.....aside from the UCLA win, Arizona hasn't performed any better since Trier has returned. In some ways they've played worse. And, as I have said a zillion times, Gonzaga was nowhere near as good back then as they are. The team is way more cohesive right now. Few was still melding together a team who had 5 (really 6) of its top 8 players not playing at GU last season.

ZagsGoZags
02-17-2017, 03:06 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dear-haters-youre-dead-wrong-about-gonzaga-whether-you-realize-it-or-not/

Zags 11. Sorry I posted this in the SF vs GU post game threat. I did not realize you had started a thread on article by Parrish already.

gonzagafan62
02-17-2017, 03:06 PM
Few, BTW, publicly acknowledged the mistake of not keeping EMac in the Syracuse game. He earned my respect for owing up to that one. EMac just needed to be sat down and cooled down and put back out there. McClellan was the reason the team made the NCAA tournament, the reason they made the sweet 16, and I am still miffed he didn't win the WCC tournament MVP. Heck he didn't even make the all tourney team, either.

For all these people he keep talking about how Arizona didn't haven't Trier when they faced Gonzaga.....aside from the UCLA win, Arizona hasn't performed any better since Trier has returned. In some ways they've played worse. And, as I have said a zillion times, Gonzaga was nowhere near as good back then as they are. The team is way more cohesive right now. Few was still melding together a team who had 5 (really 6) of its top 8 players not playing at GU last season.

100% agree with Syracuse comment

100% agree with the second comment too. Just wanna add one thing to it. Arizona might be a better overall team than they were when they played us, but let's remember that Gonzaga has gotten better too (as you said) so it like every team in the country can get better EXCEPT Gonzaga? That's what it feels like when it comes to Gonzaga haters

CDC84
02-17-2017, 03:13 PM
I think the guy that Zona missed in the GU loss more than Trier was Jackson-Cartwright. I will never forget seeing the first game that PJC played after his injury. It was at Cal. Zona was on the verge of getting blown out. Miller put in PJC, and not only did the Wildcats settle down, but they finally had an offense. And they won the game.

Zags11
02-17-2017, 03:37 PM
Zags 11. Sorry I posted this in the SF vs GU post game threat. I did not realize you had started a thread on article by Parrish already.


Oops! I'm sorry!

seacatfan
02-17-2017, 04:22 PM
I think the guy that Zona missed in the GU loss more than Trier was Jackson-Cartwright. I will never forget seeing the first game that PJC played after his injury. It was at Cal. Zona was on the verge of getting blown out. Miller put in PJC, and not only did the Wildcats settle down, but they finally had an offense. And they won the game.

Shh! Many on this forum think PJC is a complete non-factor. Don't try to ruin that for them.