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View Full Version : Zags vs Dons POST GAME thoughts and ideas



Reborn
02-16-2017, 08:31 PM
Gonzaga 96
San Francisco 61.

After a very poor start, the Zags settled down a little before half-time, and then pretty much buried them in the second half. there were A LOT OF FANS, WHO WERE PREDICTING THE SCORE, COME VERY CLOSE TO PREDICTING THE FINAL SCORE. FANS ARE BEGINNING TO KNOW THEIR TEAM QUITE WELL.

But I will say, they had me a little worried for the first ten minutes. They really did appear to be either not ready, or just finally crashing beneath the pressure of being undefeated and ranked #1. But I Didn't go crazy like I would haVe in past years. i just relaxed and kept saying to myself, BELIEVE! And also just kept remembering that THIS team is different. AND finally they began to look like the team that really is different. The second half was the Kind of beautiful basketball that I have come to love.
Way to go guys!

Go Zags!!!

CdAZagFan
02-16-2017, 08:40 PM
Pretty amazing that this team can start out like that for an extended period of time (10-12 minutes) and still almost come close to reaching the century mark in scoring. And their ability to come out after halftime and really focus in and settle down is fun to watch. I felt a dark cloud over the game with Tillie being injured, and the realization that he may not be coming back real quick. But it seemed like Collins and Shem got more playing time tonight to help cover that - and that may not be such a bad solution!

ProVeeZag
02-16-2017, 09:04 PM
After 12 minutes of play in the 1st half, it looked like a race to see which team would reach 25 turnovers for the game. Such sloppy play, I thought I was watching Western WA and Central WA by mistake. Then we got to "Hammer Time" - that point where Goss exerts his will and dominates the outcome. Game over!

Loss of Tillie will hurt, but at least there's some time to adapt to that loss.

hooter73
02-16-2017, 09:27 PM
My post game thoughts are that we're beginning to roll down hill. Yes seriously, after another huge win (over a nobody team *cough), injuries are beginning to stack up. Not just Tillie, but JW3 and NWG, plus who knows what else that isnt being put out there. My bigger concern is that Perkins and Matthews are playing like crap. Matthews has been a bit streaky since hes been here, but the last part of our regular season is a bad time to have lost his touch and nerve. Yes hes a volume shooter and not getting a ton of shots per game, but his percentage as a whole is goign down which is also effecting the rest of his offense. Hes passing up shots, indecisive. Thats not him. Perkins, besides not shooting well at all for the last few games, is back to forcing it, making bad decisions, and turning the ball over. Dont know if he just needs to shake it off or what but if hes not hitting threes and is turning it over as a primary handler, things are not going to go well with tow primary guards not feeling their mojo. Melson off the bench for 15 minutes a game and an injured NWG cannot do it all.

I dont think its nervous anticipation on my part as we get closer and closer to the end of a great season.

Harrumph.

For the good, we played like crap at first and figured it out. Shem is amazing. I still root for Edwards, the WCC is maybe going to have a coach that can do something with his guys hopefully trending up, and the best bonus of them all, we are done having to listen to Heister for another year!!!

U Zig, I Zag
02-16-2017, 09:43 PM
As seems to be the norm, we start out slow and then turn it on.

It's a long season. Guys will get hurt and get worn out. We just keep winning though. We have escaped major injuries at the big 5-7, Tillie not withstanding (he's gone for the year...). I think that we have some athleticism coming off the bench with Melson, Jones, Rui even. Just got to hold the fort and keep doing what they need to do.

The metrics - Kenpom and others - have the Zags playing at an unreal level. Heads and shoulders above many traditionally great teams. I hope it plays out like that all the way until April.

Zagger
02-17-2017, 04:12 AM
Zags looked slow early on and USF was getting open shots. That changed :)
27-0!
I though Mathews started to shine in the 2nd half. He got aggressive and it helped. Tillie and Alberts being out gave the game a different feel. Also J3 being scoreless and miffing some FTs for a long stretch of the game was worrisome. I sure hope he's feeling well.
Got a feeling we'll see a few of the starters getting less minutes on Saturday and a goodly chunk of the rest of the team battling Pacific. Maybe some time in the sunshine of San Diego next week will help with injury recovery :)

Zagceo
02-17-2017, 04:29 AM
Zagger did they make any special announcement for Emmert being in the Kennel last night?

http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2017/02/16/SRX_GU_VS_SAN_FRAN_20.JPG_t2500.jpg?6913dd5f0afa17 a0b7a91a88b4e808d586264d13

gonstu
02-17-2017, 04:30 AM
Zagger did they make any special announcement for Emmert being in the Kennel last night?

http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2017/02/16/SRX_GU_VS_SAN_FRAN_20.JPG_t2500.jpg?6913dd5f0afa17 a0b7a91a88b4e808d586264d13

This looks like a meme waiting to happen...

Zagger
02-17-2017, 04:35 AM
Zagger did they make any special announcement for Emmert being in the Kennel last night?

If they did I missed it whilst farting around with my phone :(

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 05:02 AM
If they did I missed it whilst farting around with my phone :(

IMHO, you used your time far more productively...and that's coming from the guy who rose in the prediction charts last night like a Phoenix. lol

Goes to show that a broken clock is right twice a day.

Reborn
02-17-2017, 05:22 AM
IMHO, you used your time far more productively...and that's coming from the guy who rose in the prediction charts last night like a Phoenix. lol

Goes to show that a broken clock is right twice a day.

Congrats on your prediction last night. Nothing like being #1.

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 06:13 AM
Congrats on your prediction last night. Nothing like being #1.

I'm on a roll...going to take out a reverse mortgage and head to Vegas...put it all on the Zags.

I'll give half to my wife, and skedaddle to an unspecified location in Germany, though most of you will know exactly where to find me. :drool:

jazzdelmar
02-17-2017, 06:16 AM
Hopefully Emmert said, "Mr President, boy do I have a conference for you."

Bogozags
02-17-2017, 06:24 AM
Hopefully Emmert said, "Mr President, boy do I have a conference for you."

So now, is this the time to start the "WCC sucks and we're moving to the Big East" thread or am I too early again?

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 06:32 AM
Hopefully Emmert said, "Mr President, boy do I have a conference for you."

Wouldn't surprise me if a basketball-only conference is being contemplated. There is just too much TV money waiting to be spent on a 16-24 team nationwide conference. We all know the likely suspects: i.e. the top teams from non-Power 5 conferences. It would be the shot in the arm ESPN needs to get their subscribers back. If it were properly put together, it would be a compelling competitor to the Power 5's, with no weak sisters.

Not saying it's going to happen, but the NBA can't continue ad infinitum the way they're going, with 3 dominant franchises out of 30 teams. All I know is that the Mavericks TV ratings have been in the toilet this year, and they have thousands of empty seats for most of their home games.

Reborn
02-17-2017, 07:03 AM
Here are some great things about the game. Williams-Goss scored 30 points, his 3rd 30 point game this season. Mr Karnowski scored 23. I think that was his season high. The team had 9 blocked shots. AWESOME. The team shot 41% from behind the arch, making 10 3's. I was glad to see the improved outside shooting. Even though there was some sloppy passing at the beginning of the game, it certainly improved as the game went on. The Zags had 20 assists, 19 coming from their guards. The Zags scored 53 second half points, suggesting that even though they had a bad start, they were able to play some beautiful basketball the 2nd half.

Go Zags!!!

hooter73
02-17-2017, 07:16 AM
Hopefully Emmert said, "Mr President, boy do I have a conference for you."

Like button.

MontanaCoyote
02-17-2017, 07:22 AM
Pretty amazing that this team can start out like that for an extended period of time (10-12 minutes) and still almost come close to reaching the century mark in scoring. And their ability to come out after halftime and really focus in and settle down is fun to watch. I felt a dark cloud over the game with Tillie being injured, and the realization that he may not be coming back real quick. But it seemed like Collins and Shem got more playing time tonight to help cover that - and that may not be such a bad solution!

I guess a fair question might be to ask if they could overcome a bad start like last night against Villanova, Kansas or Oregon? Of course, it would be more than fair to ask if Villanova, Kansas or Oregon could overcome a bad start against us.

MontanaCoyote
02-17-2017, 07:32 AM
My post game thoughts are that we're beginning to roll down hill. Yes seriously, after another huge win (over a nobody team *cough), injuries are beginning to stack up. Not just Tillie, but JW3 and NWG, plus who knows what else that isnt being put out there. My bigger concern is that Perkins and Matthews are playing like crap. Matthews has been a bit streaky since hes been here, but the last part of our regular season is a bad time to have lost his touch and nerve. Yes hes a volume shooter and not getting a ton of shots per game, but his percentage as a whole is goign down which is also effecting the rest of his offense. Hes passing up shots, indecisive. Thats not him. Perkins, besides not shooting well at all for the last few games, is back to forcing it, making bad decisions, and turning the ball over. Dont know if he just needs to shake it off or what but if hes not hitting threes and is turning it over as a primary handler, things are not going to go well with tow primary guards not feeling their mojo. Melson off the bench for 15 minutes a game and an injured NWG cannot do it all.

I dont think its nervous anticipation on my part as we get closer and closer to the end of a great season.

Harrumph.

For the good, we played like crap at first and figured it out. Shem is amazing. I still root for Edwards, the WCC is maybe going to have a coach that can do something with his guys hopefully trending up, and the best bonus of them all, we are done having to listen to Heister for another year!!!

I agree. I've posted before that Perkins, Melson and Matthews will need to play "lights out" for us to make a deep run at The Dance against teams with elite guards. How many times have we heard that guard play is what wins championships?

Hope all three find their MoJo and get it on!

TexasZagFan
02-17-2017, 07:54 AM
I guess a fair question might be to ask if they could overcome a bad start like last night against Villanova, Kansas or Oregon? Of course, it would be more than fair to ask if Villanova, Kansas or Oregon could overcome a bad start against us.

Arizona couldn't...nor Tennessee (who's now on the bubble).

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-17-2017, 02:59 PM
My post game thoughts are that we're beginning to roll down hill. Yes seriously, after another huge win (over a nobody team *cough), injuries are beginning to stack up. Not just Tillie, but JW3 and NWG, plus who knows what else that isnt being put out there. My bigger concern is that Perkins and Matthews are playing like crap. Matthews has been a bit streaky since hes been here, but the last part of our regular season is a bad time to have lost his touch and nerve. Yes hes a volume shooter and not getting a ton of shots per game, but his percentage as a whole is goign down which is also effecting the rest of his offense. Hes passing up shots, indecisive. Thats not him. Perkins, besides not shooting well at all for the last few games, is back to forcing it, making bad decisions, and turning the ball over. Dont know if he just needs to shake it off or what but if hes not hitting threes and is turning it over as a primary handler, things are not going to go well with tow primary guards not feeling their mojo. Melson off the bench for 15 minutes a game and an injured NWG cannot do it all.

I dont think its nervous anticipation on my part as we get closer and closer to the end of a great season.

Harrumph.

For the good, we played like crap at first and figured it out. Shem is amazing. I still root for Edwards, the WCC is maybe going to have a coach that can do something with his guys hopefully trending up, and the best bonus of them all, we are done having to listen to Heister for another year!!!

Agree with you on all counts Hooter. I don't care how many impressive stats can be cited or by how many points Zags beat USF, they did not play well or look to me like a team focused on improving each and every week. They looked content and overconfident...just my gut impression. I don't like all the "this is best Zag team ever" talk.

Yes, treasure and appreciate the process and how special this season is....but only way to claim title of best Zags team ever is perform and prove it in March.

maynard g krebs
02-17-2017, 04:34 PM
My bigger concern is that Perkins and Matthews are playing like crap...... Perkins, besides not shooting well at all for the last few games, is back to forcing it, making bad decisions, and turning the ball over.

Perkins had 5 assists and 2 turnovers last night. For the last dozen games, he has 48 assists and 21 turnovers, 4 apg/1.75 tpg. That's almost identical to NWG's season averages of 4.7/2.0.

I thought he did a nice job of moving the ball/probing the defense last night. One play that stood out to me- from the right wing he faked a shot as a defender came out when he could have gotten the shot off, drove to the elbow and passed to NWG for an open 3.

Interestingly, in the game NWG sat out and he got to be the primary point, he had 8 assists and 2 turnovers. He hasn't shot well the last 3 games, on few attempts, true.

He got his dribble picked once, true. But the facts don't lie; sometimes perceptions can be skewed.

Reborn
02-17-2017, 04:46 PM
Perkins had 5 assists and 2 turnovers last night. For the last dozen games, he has 48 assists and 21 turnovers, 4 apg/1.75 tpg. That's almost identical to NWG's season averages of 4.7/2.0.

I thought he did a nice job of moving the ball/probing the defense last night. One play that stood out to me- from the right wing he faked a shot as a defender came out when he could have gotten the shot off, drove to the elbow and passed to NWG for an open 3.

Interestingly, in the game NWG sat out and he got to be the primary point, he had 8 assists and 2 turnovers. He hasn't shot well the last 3 games, on few attempts, true.

He got his dribble picked once, true. But the facts don't lie; sometimes perceptions can be skewed.

I totally agree with you after watching the game again today. He can really pass. HE CAN ALSO PENETRATE THE KET VERY WELL, AND HIT WIDE OPEN SHOOTERS, OR DRAW FOULS.

Reborn
02-17-2017, 04:57 PM
Agree with you on all counts Hooter. I don't care how many impressive stats can be cited or by how many points Zags beat USF, they did not play well or look to me like a team focused on improving each and every week. They looked content and overconfident...just my gut impression. I don't like all the "this is best Zag team ever" talk.

Yes, treasure and appreciate the process and how special this season is....but only way to claim title of best Zags team ever is perform and prove it in March.

Totally disagree with you about EVERYTHING that you said. They beat a good team by 35 points. They scored 54 points the second half.

gonzagafan62
02-17-2017, 05:03 PM
Totally disagree with you about EVERYTHING that you said. They beat a good team by 35 points. They scored 54 points the second half.

I agree. They played bad in first half. But the second half they played focused. Yes they played lackadaisical and it was really apparent when Collins made a 5th grade mistake.

But come on the second half they played like the #1 team. Drilled SF in second half who mind you is a top 100 team.

How many teams beat a top 100 team by 35 after a bad first half?

rennis
02-17-2017, 09:06 PM
How many teams beat a top 100 team by 35 after a bad first half?

Legit 1 seeds do. That's who


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

ProVeeZag
02-17-2017, 10:18 PM
So now, is this the time to start the "WCC sucks and we're moving to the Big East" thread or am I too early again?

You are never too early to start the "WCC sucks" thread! What's it been...a week already?

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-18-2017, 12:08 AM
Totally disagree with you about EVERYTHING that you said. They beat a good team by 35 points. They scored 54 points the second half.

Ok, I watched the USF game again (just the 2nd half) and would like to walk back my earlier post. Zags looked great, especially NWG and PK. Weird how several key players didn't seem to play well yet Zags win big.

Zagger
02-18-2017, 12:37 AM
Ok, I watched the USF game again (just the 2nd half) and would like to walk back my earlier post. Zags looked great, especially NWG and PK. Weird how several key players didn't seem to play well yet Zags win big.

These Zags just plain arse wear teams down. When USF tried to react to the Zags 2nd half play they started fouling out. Mentioning that ... is that a stat? Wonder how many opponents have had guys foul out this season against the Zags and if it's a rate that is notable?

Birddog
02-18-2017, 03:26 AM
These Zags just plain arse wear teams down. When USF tried to react to the Zags 2nd half play they started fouling out. Mentioning that ... is that a stat? Wonder how many opponents have had guys foul out this season against the Zags and if it's a rate that is notable?

That's a very good question now that you mention it. Hmmmmmmm.

RenoZag
02-18-2017, 05:52 AM
FWIW: UOP has committed the most personal fouls per game in the WCC: 583 total, 20.8 per game. They have had 17 DQ's.

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/286/p7

Zags average 17 PF per game (458 PF to date ), have had 12 DQ's. Zag Opponents have had 17 players foul out in 27 games. Bryant had 3 players DQ; a couple of other teams have had 2 players DQ in a single game.

mgadfly
02-18-2017, 07:48 AM
These Zags just plain arse wear teams down. When USF tried to react to the Zags 2nd half play they started fouling out. Mentioning that ... is that a stat? Wonder how many opponents have had guys foul out this season against the Zags and if it's a rate that is notable?

Ken Pomeroy tracks individual players ability to draw fouls. He also tracks where teams rank on the distribution of their points (for example, if 100% of your points came from three pointers you'd be #1 in 3 pointers contributing to your total score). On distribution, Gonzaga is 212th in the nation with most of their points coming from 2 point field goals. 19.1% of our points are free throws. BYU and TENN are top 10 with 23 to 24% of their points coming from the charity stripe.

Individually, Karno and Collins are both ranked in the top 500. Karno draws 4.9 fouls per 40 (393rd) while Collins draws 7.2 (24th). This is one area where the 2013 Zags were incredible with Olynyk, Harris, and Karno all drawing more than 6 fouls per 40 good enough for top 35 in the country.

Ken Pomeroy also tracks Free Throw Rate (ability to get to the free throw line, not just draw fouls) and Collins is off the charts good at it. He'd be top five or six nationally if he played a few more minutes to qualify for that leaderboard.

sittingon50
02-18-2017, 08:17 AM
Ok, I watched the USF game again (just the 2nd half) and would like to walk back my earlier post. Zags looked great, especially NWG and PK. Weird how several key players didn't seem to play well yet Zags win big.

I was there with you Flex. Went down the stats after the game & had more guys rated "did not play well" than did. And yet they score in the mid-90's. Was scratchin' my head a bit.

MickMick
02-18-2017, 08:26 AM
I was there with you Flex. Went down the stats after the game & had more guys rated "did not play well" than did. And yet they score in the mid-90's. Was scratchin' my head a bit.

One word answer.

Goss.

Not just his individual contributions. His aura permeates the court.

I honestly believe that.

Reborn
02-18-2017, 10:14 AM
Ok, I watched the USF game again (just the 2nd half) and would like to walk back my earlier post. Zags looked great, especially NWG and PK. Weird how several key players didn't seem to play well yet Zags win big.

When I watch the game over, I especially like to watch guys who are being criticized heavily here on the forum, and that would be Mathews and Perkins. I believe that when analyzing someones play we need to look at more than shooting. I believe that for the players on our team scoring is not the most important thing. Scoring, of course, is important to this TEAM, and the Zags like scoring lots of points, and obviously love to keep their opponents from scoring very many. I think the players this year like to ask the question, How can we, as a team, best score more points than our opponents. And they try to distribute the ball to those players who can score FOR THAT GAME. And as we know that changes from game to game. A great quality of this team is that they are so flexible. They can adjust to whatever their opponents are trying to do to stop our powerful offense. And so far that's been really hard to do because this team CAN ADJUST. And one thing that helps is we have Great PASSERS. This team really knows how to pass the ball to the right people for that particular play, and that person who usually gets the ball is the player with the best chance of scoring on that play. Now what makes our team so dangerous is that we have 8 guys who have that ability to score. And, imo, all of these guys are unselfish players.

SO GETTING BACK TO Mathews and Perkins, both of them can really pass and are very unselfish. And to top it off they are Great defenders. MATHEWS RARELY TURNS THE BALL OVER WHEN PASSING. Sometimes he turns it over when forcing things when he drives to the basket. Perkins does turn it over more, but he also has a lot of assists and a lot of beautiful passes. I wonder if very many fans watch Mathews on defense. He is so good. Finally Mathews and Perkins are both playing different roles on this team then they are used to playing. And I love that about both of them.