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View Full Version : Thoughts of last year, Karno, and Syracuse



ScrapironJim
02-12-2017, 08:43 PM
IMO the odds are that we would have beaten Syracuse last year if we had had a healthy Karno.

Dreams of final four.

phxfireflames
02-12-2017, 08:52 PM
The Zags would not have been an 11 seed if that were the case!

jpn17
02-12-2017, 08:53 PM
Maybe, but I think the entirety of the season would have unfolded differently. They probably don't lose to SMC or BYU here with a healthy Karnowski which would have put them at a higher seed than an 11 and then who knows how things turn out. A full season from Karnowski last year also means no Karnowski this year, so I am ok with how everything turned out. Truth be told, they should have been able to hold on for the win against Syracuse anyway.

gonzagafan62
02-12-2017, 09:04 PM
True but honestly we would've been a much MUCH better seed IMO had Karnowski been healthy. Somewhere between 5-7... so while that's true the matchups would've been a lot more difficult than they were initially ... And not that I wanted Karnowski hurt by ANY means but Karnowski getting hurt made sabonis a lotto pick (helps with recruiting) makes us an undefeated (to this point) team and also gives us great depth and a chance to win the title.

No first off I must admit that I was VERY SKEPTICAL about this team at the start. We didn't know how good Tillie was, if Karnowski was going to be half of what he was (he even got better), how Josh and Nigel would handle being two guards in the same lineup.... But still, getting sabonis to NBA was huge especially for him. Really great kid and loved watching his passion on the court It freed up a roster spot that may not have been there with sabonis. We tried hard for Pryor ... and we ended up getting a blessing in Jordan.

Combine that with what we knew:

Silas was a great defender
JW3 was a great off ball weakside shot blocker
Karnowski clogs the lane
We new Collins was a great low post defender and could take pressure off Karnowski in the post when on floor together.

And then to see it all come together for a top 5 defense in the country. Absolutely incredible.

Yes. Last season was a great run from February to March. Yes if we had Karnowski it could've been different.

But mysteriously things happen the way they should - and it was better for Sabonis (who's making a lot of cash kind you) and Strangely it worked out to a huge benefit for Gonzaga. Did it work out better for Karnowski? I don't know. I know he's having fun and wants to win a national championship. At least he has peace of mind when it comes down to his horrific back injury. He will still play pro ball somewhere - and at a high level. I don't think NBA was where he was going to end up in the long run anyway. (Could be wrong)

Win for Sabonis
Win for Gonzaga
Win win if you ask me.

krii
02-13-2017, 03:26 AM
True but honestly we would've been a much MUCH better seed IMO had Karnowski been healthy. Somewhere between 5-7... so while that's true the matchups would've been a lot more difficult than they were initially ... And not that I wanted Karnowski hurt by ANY means but Karnowski getting hurt made sabonis a lotto pick (helps with recruiting) makes us an undefeated (to this point) team and also gives us great depth and a chance to win the title.

No first off I must admit that I was VERY SKEPTICAL about this team at the start. We didn't know how good Tillie was, if Karnowski was going to be half of what he was (he even got better), how Josh and Nigel would handle being two guards in the same lineup.... But still, getting sabonis to NBA was huge especially for him. Really great kid and loved watching his passion on the court It freed up a roster spot that may not have been there with sabonis. We tried hard for Pryor ... and we ended up getting a blessing in Jordan.

Combine that with what we knew:

Silas was a great defender
JW3 was a great off ball weakside shot blocker
Karnowski clogs the lane
We new Collins was a great low post defender and could take pressure off Karnowski in the post when on floor together.

And then to see it all come together for a top 5 defense in the country. Absolutely incredible.

Yes. Last season was a great run from February to March. Yes if we had Karnowski it could've been different.

But mysteriously things happen the way they should - and it was better for Sabonis (who's making a lot of cash kind you) and Strangely it worked out to a huge benefit for Gonzaga. Did it work out better for Karnowski? I don't know. I know he's having fun and wants to win a national championship. At least he has peace of mind when it comes down to his horrific back injury. He will still play pro ball somewhere - and at a high level. I don't think NBA was where he was going to end up in the long run anyway. (Could be wrong)

Win for Sabonis
Win for Gonzaga
Win win if you ask me.

I agree except one part. I feel Karnowski belongs to the NBA. It is really a question of how he'll get there: drafted in the second round or undrafted but acquired by some team (possibly via DLeague or Europe).

Karnowski isn't the ideal modern 5, but his skill-set is more than needed by at least 70% of the teams in the league. We tend to forget that the entire 'small-ball/3p shooting' revolution in the league appeals to the starting rosters (and not everywhere, see: Bulls, Pistons) but majority of the teams still have a bench big that operates under the basket as their post-up option. Karnowski might not be able to start in the league as he might have problems with defending the perimeter but he has everything else to be at least valuable center off-the-bench. 10-15 mpg with high efficiency post-ups, average-efficiency jumpers (which he is showing to develop in his game lately), rebounding (or boxing out, both valuable), rim protection AND passing is more than enough to get to the league.

Who might need him? Atlanta, Utah, Dallas, Pelicans? NOP has only Anthony Davis. Omer Asik and Alexis Ajinca are both pretty bad. Dallas has only Bogut who will have to be replaced soon.
Utah has Rudy Gobert and no-one on the bench. Atlanta has Mike Muscala but they are apparently looking for a big in the draft so they might be interested in rebuild/acquiring big to backup Howard.

There are many teams he could fit. I wish he could join SAS or GSW as he seems to fit them just fine with his passing, willingness to share the ball and play team-ball rather than hunt some empty stats ...

Yeah. I'm a homer but I feel Karnowski will be in the league this year :)

TexasZagFan
02-13-2017, 04:38 AM
I agree except one part. I feel Karnowski belongs to the NBA. It is really a question of how he'll get there: drafted in the second round or undrafted but acquired by some team (possibly via DLeague or Europe).

Karnowski isn't the ideal modern 5, but his skill-set is more than needed by at least 70% of the teams in the league. We tend to forget that the entire 'small-ball/3p shooting' revolution in the league appeals to the starting rosters (and not everywhere, see: Bulls, Pistons) but majority of the teams still have a bench big that operates under the basket as their post-up option. Karnowski might not be able to start in the league as he might have problems with defending the perimeter but he has everything else to be at least valuable center off-the-bench. 10-15 mpg with high efficiency post-ups, average-efficiency jumpers (which he is showing to develop in his game lately), rebounding (or boxing out, both valuable), rim protection AND passing is more than enough to get to the league.

Who might need him? Atlanta, Utah, Dallas, Pelicans? NOP has only Anthony Davis. Omer Asik and Alexis Ajinca are both pretty bad. Dallas has only Bogut who will have to be replaced soon.
Utah has Rudy Gobert and no-one on the bench. Atlanta has Mike Muscala but they are apparently looking for a big in the draft so they might be interested in rebuild/acquiring big to backup Howard.

There are many teams he could fit. I wish he could join SAS or GSW as he seems to fit them just fine with his passing, willingness to share the ball and play team-ball rather than hunt some empty stats ...

Yeah. I'm a homer but I feel Karnowski will be in the league this year :)

Dallas has been known to draft purely for marketing purposes. If Cuban wants to target the Polish market, Karno's his man.

If Cuban wants to target the Japanese market, Rui's his man.

If Cuban wants to target France, Killian's his man.

He never had a chance at Sabonis.

Birddog
02-13-2017, 05:02 AM
I agree except one part. I feel Karnowski belongs to the NBA. It is really a question of how he'll get there: drafted in the second round or undrafted but acquired by some team (possibly via DLeague or Europe).

Karnowski isn't the ideal modern 5, but his skill-set is more than needed by at least 70% of the teams in the league. We tend to forget that the entire 'small-ball/3p shooting' revolution in the league appeals to the starting rosters (and not everywhere, see: Bulls, Pistons) but majority of the teams still have a bench big that operates under the basket as their post-up option. Karnowski might not be able to start in the league as he might have problems with defending the perimeter but he has everything else to be at least valuable center off-the-bench. 10-15 mpg with high efficiency post-ups, average-efficiency jumpers (which he is showing to develop in his game lately), rebounding (or boxing out, both valuable), rim protection AND passing is more than enough to get to the league.

Who might need him? Atlanta, Utah, Dallas, Pelicans? NOP has only Anthony Davis. Omer Asik and Alexis Ajinca are both pretty bad. Dallas has only Bogut who will have to be replaced soon.
Utah has Rudy Gobert and no-one on the bench. Atlanta has Mike Muscala but they are apparently looking for a big in the draft so they might be interested in rebuild/acquiring big to backup Howard.

There are many teams he could fit. I wish he could join SAS or GSW as he seems to fit them just fine with his passing, willingness to share the ball and play team-ball rather than hunt some empty stats ...

Yeah. I'm a homer but I feel Karnowski will be in the league this year :)

I'm not seeing it. The difference between a top level college player and the marginal NBA player is huge. Draft Express doesn't have Karno in the Top 100. As much as I'd like to see him make it to the NBA, I think he falls short. His rebounding and shot blocking are a bit weak, not much of a mid range game, he's a little bit slow (despite the Gazelle move) and I don't think he has quite enough nasty in his game. Again, I hope I'm wrong. I think he'll have a solid career in Europe.

By the way, is this you?

Oskar Nash Andrzejewski Teacher at ZSEO Gniezno
Where the hell is Karnowski?

Ekrub
02-13-2017, 05:20 AM
I'm not seeing it. The difference between a top level college player and the marginal NBA player is huge. Draft Express doesn't have Karno in the Top 100. As much as I'd like to see him make it to the NBA, I think he falls short. His rebounding and shot blocking are weak, not much of a mid range game, he's a little bit slow (despite the Gazelle move) and I don't think he has quite enough nasty in his game. Again, I hope I'm wrong. I think he'll have a solid career in Europe.

By the way, is this you?

Don't think he gets drafted, but definitely think he gets a chance. Teams seem to like role players to fill the bottom parts of their rosters and karnowski can definitely play a role. Could see him finding his way on a roster and splitting time in the d-league like wiltjer is doing now

amaronizag
02-13-2017, 07:56 AM
If Sacre made it, Karno can make it. Karno has better hands, better footwork, better offensive skills, better lane clogging skills, and is equal at rebounding. Sacre definitely had skills, but comparing each after their 4th year at GU, I'd take Karno over Sacre any day.

TexasZagFan
02-13-2017, 08:49 AM
If Sacre made it, Karno can make it. Karno has better hands, better footwork, better offensive skills, better lane clogging skills, and is equal at rebounding. Sacre definitely had skills, but comparing each after their 4th year at GU, I'd take Karno over Sacre any day.

He's also proven he can get up and down the court on the fast break.

Zags11
02-13-2017, 09:40 AM
If Sacre made it, Karno can make it. Karno has better hands, better footwork, better offensive skills, better lane clogging skills, and is equal at rebounding. Sacre definitely had skills, but comparing each after their 4th year at GU, I'd take Karno over Sacre any day.

This.

krii
02-13-2017, 09:46 AM
I'm not seeing it. The difference between a top level college player and the marginal NBA player is huge. Draft Express doesn't have Karno in the Top 100. As much as I'd like to see him make it to the NBA, I think he falls short. His rebounding and shot blocking are a bit weak, not much of a mid range game, he's a little bit slow (despite the Gazelle move) and I don't think he has quite enough nasty in his game. Again, I hope I'm wrong. I think he'll have a solid career in Europe.

By the way, is this you?

Sure, you are right. The thing is I believe Karno is a bit more than the marginal NBA player. I'd say he is a good bench contributor level. We tend to forget he strive against better players, he played veery good game against Pau Gasol on Eurobasket and he had a rough (but efficient) nights against Valunciunas in the past. He is, IMO, prepared for the league. I wouldn't believe in the DX top 100 list - they do not consider Karnowski top 68 senior players in the NCAA - that's is waaaay off his actual contribution. Hence, I would say they are wrong.

Nah, that's me: https://twitter.com/kriskaleta ;-)

MontanaCoyote
02-13-2017, 10:13 AM
Karno always makes A difference. And so many times THE difference.

I don't know where he'll play, but he'll play. And, as I posted on my Karno Come Back thread yesterday, I would love to see him come back to Gonzaga some day............coach, PR, student/athlete recruiter. He has his long term future, the well being of his family and the love for his country to wrap into any decisions he makes, but he's a diamond in the sky as a
person and, in the long run that's what really counts.

Yeah, I'm a Karno homer too. Crazy about him. No joke, even voted Przemek for President. So very biased. But happy and proud of it all.