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View Full Version : Zags vs Gaels.....Post Game thoughts



Reborn
02-11-2017, 06:45 PM
Gonzaga 74
St Mary's 64

GREAT GREAT GREAT game by the Zags. MT KARNO was a mountain of a man tonight, getting 19 and 9, AND got Landale on the bench again in foul trouble. He sat out major minutes in the second half. J Williams also had a very good game finishing close behind Karnowski with 17 and 9. Melson had a verry good game off the bencch scoring 12, and he was 2 for 2 from behind the arch. What impressed me the most though was our defense and rebounding. Gonzaga was pretty much in total control for most of the game, and could have won by twenty if they had shot well from the free throw line.

We're 26 and 0 BABY!!!

Go Zags!!!

Zags11
02-11-2017, 06:57 PM
Gonzaga 74
St Mary's 64

GREAT GREAT GREAT game by the Zags. MT KARNO was a mountain of a man tonight, getting 19 and 9, AND got Landale on the bench again in foul trouble. He sat out major minutes in the second half. J Williams also had a very good game finishing close behind Karnowski with 17 and 9. Melson had a verry good game off the bencch scoring 12, and he was 2 for 2 from behind the arch. What impressed me the most though was our defense and rebounding. Gonzaga was pretty much in total control for most of the game, and could have won by twenty if they had shot well from the free throw line.

We're 26 and 0 BABY!!!

Go Zags!!!

This.

Zagger
02-11-2017, 07:28 PM
The Zags controlled the game pretty well. Some crappy TOs but ..... the team has one another's back. I was really happy with Williams and Melson. They brought it to Moraga! 26 - 0 .... well deserved!

U Zig, I Zag
02-11-2017, 07:33 PM
It was never in doubt. Guy after guy keeps stepping up.

BayAreaZagFan
02-11-2017, 07:33 PM
The Gaels played a good game and weren't nervous or tight at all. They gave the Zags their best shot and just lost to a better team.

I've heard all throughout the week that all of the pressure was on Gonzaga, with none on St. Mary's. I felt it was the other way, but St. Mary's didn't seem to be affected by it one bit. If indeed, all of the pressure was on the Zags, they showed they can handle it. It wasn't their best game, but it was a game good enough to take a good shot from a pretty good team and still come out with a double-digit victory. This actually makes me feel even better about this team, especially come tournament time.

Ezag
02-11-2017, 07:36 PM
We own the WCC and just lease space to the other teams

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-11-2017, 07:41 PM
It was never in doubt. Guy after guy keeps stepping up.

Yup. This was a calm, businesslike win against a solid team in a tough environment.

This Gaels team is probably the best opponent Mark Few has ever faced in the WCC and they are significantly outmatched by this Gonzaga team. Our kids just went into their house and choked them into submission.

JPtheBeasta
02-11-2017, 07:45 PM
Yup. This was a calm, businesslike win against a solid team in a tough environment.

This Gaels team is probably the best opponent Mark Few has ever faced in the WCC and they are significantly outmatched by this Gonzaga team. Our kids just went into their house and choked them into submission.

Pretty crazy. This is a really good SMC team. I suppose it is probably hard for SMC fans to have arguably their best team and still be second fiddle right now.

Zagsker
02-11-2017, 08:03 PM
Pretty crazy. This is a really good SMC team. I suppose it is probably hard for SMC fans to have arguably their best team and still be second fiddle right now.

I cannot see how some view this SMC team as potentially their best...the years with Delly and Mills years had some teams that were far more athleticall and talently potent

CDC84
02-11-2017, 08:10 PM
I will take any win in an environment like that, but what's funny is that I still feel as though the Zags didn't play their best ball tonight. But that's a good thing.

I wish there was a way to improve Josh Perkins' dribbling ability. He even had a big guy pick him off tonight. The dribble is too high, and he leaves the ball too exposed. Four more turnovers tonight.

gonzagafan62
02-11-2017, 08:18 PM
I cannot see how some view this SMC team as potentially their best...the years with Delly and Mills years had some teams that were far more athleticall and talently potent

This

gonzagafan62
02-11-2017, 08:20 PM
Btw I think 2010 was better than this team

whatazag
02-11-2017, 08:23 PM
Very strange/interesting that Tillie barely played, but seems Few might know what he is doing

MontanaCoyote
02-11-2017, 08:28 PM
Pretty crazy. This is a really good SMC team. I suppose it is probably hard for SMC fans to have arguably their best team and still be second fiddle right now.


I will take any win in an environment like that, but what's funny is that I still feel as though the Zags didn't play their best ball tonight. But that's a good thing.

I wish there was a way to improve Josh Perkins' dribbling ability. He even had a big guy pick him off tonight. The dribble is too high, and he leaves the ball too exposed. Four more turnovers tonight.

Agree across the board. I also think Perks sometimes just tries to do too much, which is always asking for trouble........tends to amplify any negative tendencies. Maybe there were some lessons learned by Josh tonight.

ProVeeZag
02-11-2017, 08:32 PM
Yup. This was a calm, businesslike win against a solid team in a tough environment.

This Gaels team is probably the best opponent Mark Few has ever faced in the WCC and they are significantly outmatched by this Gonzaga team. Our kids just went into their house and choked them into submission.

This game was not as close as the final score would indicate. Zags left a ton of points on the floor with empty trips to the charity stripe and missed "bunnies". "Had the feel" of a 20+ point margin.

Just_An_Old_Zag
02-11-2017, 08:37 PM
iKarno great game..Perkins not so much..But 26-0 Rocks!!!

Zagceo
02-11-2017, 08:49 PM
Very strange/interesting that Tillie barely played, but seems Few might know what he is doing

I'm guessing Williams outstanding play limited Tillies minutes....

zagray
02-11-2017, 08:50 PM
This team may or may not be the best all time Zag team, March will determine that. I do think without a doubt this is the best defensive team. We brought our B game tonight, Perkins played one of his worst games as a Zag and Goss over penatrated and forced a few shots. Karno, besides his errant pass into the 3rd row was fantastic as was Williams. Melson's play was solid and he has been the biggest surprise this season going from an underachiever to a solid all around guard who seldom turns over the ball. Solid defense wins the day when your not firing on all cylinders, this team brings the D every game that's why they're undefeated.

Hoopaholic
02-11-2017, 08:53 PM
I'm guessing Williams outstanding play limited Tillies minutes....

Yep

CDC84
02-11-2017, 08:57 PM
The guy who had one hell of game was JWIII. 17pts, 7/9 FG, 2 blocks and 9 boards.

GonzaGAW
02-11-2017, 09:07 PM
what is giving me an extra high, is the gael's gave us a test, and the zag's shined in prime time, national stage. with the "game day" hype this was undoubtedly the first look that ten's of thousands got around to actually seeing the team play. I can't imagine anyone not being impressed, well anyone with half a brain.

DixieZag
02-11-2017, 09:12 PM
The guy who had one hell of game was JWIII. 17pts, 7/9 FG, 2 blocks and 9 boards.

Did it all, fantastic game. He's playing even better lately.

SMC didn't play their best, but we had at least 4 guys play out of their minds, Karno, JWIII, Shem and Williams, all 4 amazing.

Zagceo
02-11-2017, 09:23 PM
Did it all, fantastic game. He's playing even better lately.

SMC didn't play their best, but we had at least 4 guys play out of their minds, Karno, JWIII, Shem and Williams, all 4 amazing.

funny....four names but two people

MickMick
02-11-2017, 10:10 PM
The game ended up being closer than I thought it would be.

Perkins is making me worry a little. Again.

Corky
02-11-2017, 10:30 PM
funny....four names but two people

I chuckled too. [emoji75]

caduceus
02-11-2017, 11:04 PM
Defense won this game. So many stops. Can't remember a game in Moraga when we held them down like that.

Good way to BEAT THE GAELS!

http://i.imgur.com/iPiZpSZ.gif

Ezag
02-11-2017, 11:22 PM
The game ended up being closer than I though it would be.

Perkins is making me worry a little. Again.

I agree. He and Matthews

jazzdelmar
02-12-2017, 02:34 AM
Fourth quarter sag on offense is troubling. But D held firm. Josh was awful, hard to believe he was once heralded as a one or two and done. Light years.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-12-2017, 03:27 AM
Defense won this game. So many stops. Can't remember a game in Moraga when we held them down like that.

Good way to BEAT THE GAELS!

http://i.imgur.com/iPiZpSZ.gif

:roll:

GrizZAG
02-12-2017, 03:54 AM
This team may or may not be the best all time Zag team, March will determine that. I do think without a doubt this is the best defensive team team. We brought our B game tonight, Perkins played one of his worst games as a Zag and Goss over penatrated and forced a few shots. Karno, besides his errant pass into the 3rd row was fantastic as was Williams. Melson's play was solid and he has been the biggest surprise this season going from an underachiever to a solid all around guard who seldom turns over the ball. Solid defense wins the day when your not firing on all cylinders, this team brings the D every game that's why they're undefeated.

Good overview of reality

thespywhozaggedme
02-12-2017, 04:42 AM
Did it all, fantastic game. He's playing even better lately.

SMC didn't play their best, but we had at least 4 guys play out of their minds, Karno, JWIII, Shem and Williams, all 4 amazing.

The big Polish guy and the transfer from Missouri both played awesome tonight as well, so that's six guys that really stepped up their game tonight.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-12-2017, 05:05 AM
Corey Alexander on ESPN had what I thought was good strategy for opponents vs Zags. Don't double Karno, let him get his points just focus on keeping his teammates from beating you. Logic was that PK doesn't have the mentality of a high volume scorer who will go for 30+ pts...not used to being asked to carry the load offensively.

That theory was disproven by PK in first 10 minutes of the game! Seemed like Zags identified their best matchups vs Gaels were Karno and JWIII so offensive game plan was to get those two the ball. Game plan executed!

Nitpicky / worry wart thoughts: Three key players have sprained their ankles in the past week: Tillie, NWG, PK. Ankle sprains don't just disappear no matter how good of a tape job trainers do. Can Zags next man up it to beat San Fran and Pacific at home without these three so their ankles get right for homestretch of season? They'd have Final two regular season games and WCC tourney to get their rhythm back. Just a thought...gotta have these guys as close to 100% healthy as possible for postseason. The long break between WCC tourney and NCAA tourney may be just what the doctor ordered for this team this year. Hopefully the 16 v 1 seed matchup will allow them to get the rust out of their system.

Zag4Hire
02-12-2017, 05:49 AM
I still don't think this is Few's best team (08-09) but it is hard to argue against this group being his best defensive team. The on-ball pressure and defensive discipline is a sight to behold. Not to make too much of it but I thought a number of whistles were blown, especially in 1st half, that were really good defense (amongst a few head scratching calls). There is always a lot of talk, especially in football and basketball, about attempting to mitigate the other team's strength but it seems it is seldom accomplished. If the Gaels were hedging Karno, then it was executed poorly. On the other hand, SMC didn't play poorly on offense but GU forced them into taking shots they didn't necessarily want to take. Also looking at overall team stats and team composure, SMC didn't want to play up tempo but GU got them to play their game most of the 1st half. Outside of a small stretch in the 1st half and 2nd half, Zags were in control at both ends and the shooting performances were incredible.

The other takeaway from this team that makes them very special is they seem to try a bunch of different looks and don't force the ball too much. Yes, there are usually a few times each game but they really play in control. Their inbound plays also look very crisp. It is nice to see an inbound play at the baseline that gives a shooter a 5/7 foot look as opposed to chucking to half court every time.

jazzdelmar
02-12-2017, 05:53 AM
I still don't think this is Few's best team (08-09) but it is hard to argue against this group being his best defensive team. The on-ball pressure and defensive discipline is a sight to behold. Not to make too much of it but I thought a number of whistles were blown, especially in 1st half, that were really good defense (amongst a few head scratching calls). There is always a lot of talk, especially in football and basketball, about attempting to mitigate the other team's strength but it seems it is seldom accomplished. If the Gaels were hedging Karno, then it was executed poorly. On the other hand, SMC didn't play poorly on offense but GU forced them into taking shots they didn't necessarily want to take. Also looking at overall team stats and team composure, SMC didn't want to play up tempo but GU got them to play their game most of the 1st half. Outside of a small stretch in the 1st half and 2nd half, Zags were in control at both ends and the shooting performances were incredible.

The other takeaway from this team that makes them very special is they seem to try a bunch of different looks and don't force the ball too much. Yes, there are usually a few times each game but they really play in control. Their inbound plays also look very crisp. It is nice to see an inbound play at the baseline that gives a shooter a 5/7 foot look as opposed to chucking to half court every time.

Remember when the go to inbounds pass was three quarters into the backcourt to David?

ZionZag
02-12-2017, 06:20 AM
Corey Alexander on ESPN had what I thought was good strategy for opponents vs Zags. Don't double Karno, let him get his points just focus on keeping his teammates from beating you. Logic was that PK doesn't have the mentality of a high volume scorer who will go for 30+ pts...not used to being asked to carry the load offensively.

That theory was disproven by PK in first 10 minutes of the game! Seemed like Zags identified their best matchups vs Gaels were Karno and JWIII so offensive game plan was to get those two the ball. Game plan executed!



Nitpicky / worry wart thoughts: Three key players have sprained their ankles in the past week: Tillie, NWG, PK. Ankle sprains don't just disappear no matter how good of a tape job trainers do. Can Zags next man up it to beat San Fran and Pacific at home without these three so their ankles get right for homestretch of season? They'd have Final two regular season games and WCC tourney to get their rhythm back. Just a thought...gotta have these guys as close to 100% healthy as possible for postseason. The long break between WCC tourney and NCAA tourney may be just what the doctor ordered for this team this year. Hopefully the 16 v 1 seed matchup will allow them to get the rust out of their system.

He may not have that mentality but I can assure you with one time out to hear Few say "get the damn ball inside" he will score 30...

FuManShoes
02-12-2017, 06:26 AM
Perkins hat 15 & 8 against Santa Clara when NWG was out. Mathews had 16 & 4 that game.

I agree neither one was good against St Mary's and both have been inconsistent, but think it's a little premature to worry too much. The Zags haven't been hitting the three lately and hopefully some home cooking against easy competition gives the guards some confidence heading into March. I do think having a credible outside game will be the difference for this team making a FF or not.

bballbeachbum
02-12-2017, 07:26 AM
Corey Alexander on ESPN had what I thought was good strategy for opponents vs Zags. Don't double Karno, let him get his points just focus on keeping his teammates from beating you. Logic was that PK doesn't have the mentality of a high volume scorer who will go for 30+ pts...not used to being asked to carry the load offensively.

That theory was disproven by PK in first 10 minutes of the game! Seemed like Zags identified their best matchups vs Gaels were Karno and JWIII so offensive game plan was to get those two the ball. Game plan executed!

indeed. I get the strategy, Miller used it when the Zags played AZ too with Karno, and Karno went 9-13

bballbeachbum
02-12-2017, 07:28 AM
This team may or may not be the best all time Zag team, March will determine that. I do think without a doubt this is the best defensive team team. We brought our B game tonight, Perkins played one of his worst games as a Zag and Goss over penatrated and forced a few shots. Karno, besides his errant pass into the 3rd row was fantastic as was Williams. Melson's play was solid and he has been the biggest surprise this season going from an underachiever to a solid all around guard who seldom turns over the ball. Solid defense wins the day when your not firing on all cylinders, this team brings the D every game that's why they're undefeated.

+1

gonzagafan62
02-12-2017, 07:37 AM
Zag4Hire,

You really think 08-09 is the best Few team? Did I read that right? Man I loved that team but a great team doesn't lose to Portland State. Imo

amaronizag
02-12-2017, 07:57 AM
I agree Perkins didn't have a great game. It happens. Players have off nights. But we know Josh can play better because he did last week. How well a player does on a given day also has a whole lot to do with physical match ups against opposing players, and the defensive strategy of your opponents. I'm OK with Mathews or Perkins, or Goss, or Karno, or whoever being the target of the defense on a given night, because they can't shut all of our players down all night. When the opponents do neutralize one or more GU players, someone has stepped up to carry the day.....in every game this year. And the neutralizers have to take a rest, and when they go to the bench, we keep coming at them in waves with fresh horses and make another run. That's why we're undefeated so far. Like no GU team in the past, this team has enough skill at every position and enough depth at all positions that someone always steps up. We haven't played a team complete enough to shut down all of our offensive weapons. And our defense has been good enough to get us through every storm. We're undefeated. Hard to get one's mind around.

CarolinaZagFan
02-12-2017, 08:03 AM
Still haven't had a single digit game since Zona December 3rd. Hope that doesn't come back to bite us when we have a close game come tourney time.

willandi
02-12-2017, 08:25 AM
It was a great win by the Zags.

I did comment to my wife, during the game, and showed her examples, of every screen had a little extra hip check thrown in, when the Gaels reach in to try to get the ball, most times the Zag player reacts, his head snaps back, he misses a step, something. They are HARD reach ins. When Karno got behind Jock and made an easy lay-in, Jock gave a gentle shove, with both hands, to Karno's back. It seemed that almost every play had a ticky-tack foul committed, and not called. The problem is that all those little bumps become bruises. The player begins to flinch or to step out an extra step on the drive.

I wish there were someway to stop this type of action. I just don't know how and to keep the class that Gonzaga brings to the floor every game.

I also wonder what would have happened if Few HAD called the Fire Marshall, and had told SMC to remove the extra fans, the ones that endanger the team, or face a legal action.

DixieZag
02-12-2017, 08:33 AM
One little last other point, it was good thing that our inside guys had the game of their life b/c SMC really denied our 3pt shots with good defense. We had very few open looks. They are a good defensive team on the perimeter, and I think Jock overcompensates a bit (though a couple of the fouls against him were touch fouls) against bigger/stronger/faster guys and picks up quick fouls. His volume fouls are now a feature, not a bug.

rennis
02-12-2017, 08:48 AM
Great win. Nothing to add really to what has already been said, but if free throws weren't rimming out it woulda been a 15-20 point win. If Perkins and Matthews had even played at 75% it would have been a 30 point win. They had off nights but those happen on the road. Storm weathered.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Reborn
02-12-2017, 08:51 AM
i really do prefer writing about the games the day after, and after I've watched the game a second time. The one thing I notice about the Zags is that they are first and foremost a TEAM and individual stats don't matter to these guys. The Zags had 9 turnovers which is very good. To them it doesn't matter who committed them. THEY scored 74 points which was good enough to get a very, very important victory. THEY went into Moraga to get a victory and they got it.

Even though I was unable to really feel how intense it was in that crackerbox gym, even though I was unable to feel how loud and crazy it was, I know it was. I wish I could have been there. I really didn't see or hear any Zag fans there last night. Our boys did it because they had each other, and could count on each other every step of the way. I feel the same way about how tough it is to win @ BYU. These gyms (or arenas) are as difficult to win in as any two arenas in any conference. And if the Selection Committee does not recognize this fact, and fail to agree that the Zags should be the top #1 SEED in the tournament, then shame on them. They simply are wrong, and I hope that they will put their egos in check and when it comes to Selection Sunday that they do what is right.

Back to the game. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the guys didn't bring their A game. They did win by 10 points, and they scored 74 points against one of the best defenses in the country. It was just a different version of how good Gonzaga is on offense and how they can win in different ways. They only shot 8 three-pointers last night and hit 3 of them. That's their average this year. Two of their 4 guards scored in double figures, and overall there were 4 guys in double figures, and that's how we score in just about every game. I ALREADY POINTED OUT THAT WE ONLY HAD 9 TURNOVERS, which is below our season average. And finally we out rebounded them and that's what you expect when you want to play your A game.

What really makes watching the Zags play this year so much fun is that I really never know how they're going to win. But they find a way. Last night it was Karnowski, j Williams, Melson, and to some extent, Williams-Goss. Other nights it will be Perkins, Mathews, and Collins, and at times it will be Tillie. THIS YEAR YOU JUST NEVER KNOW. But one thing I do know is that they'll get 'er done.

Go Zags!!!

MontanaCoyote
02-12-2017, 08:58 AM
I agree Perkins didn't have a great game. It happens. Players have off nights. But we know Josh can play better because he did last week. How well a player does on a given day also has a whole lot to do with physical match ups against opposing players, and the defensive strategy of your opponents. I'm OK with Mathews or Perkins, or Goss, or Karno, or whoever being the target of the defense on a given night, because they can't shut all of our players down all night. When the opponents do neutralize one or more GU players, someone has stepped up to carry the day.....in every game this year. And the neutralizers have to take a rest, and when they go to the bench, we keep coming at them in waves with fresh horses and make another run. That's why we're undefeated so far. Like no GU team in the past, this team has enough skill at every position and enough depth at all positions that someone always steps up. We haven't played a team complete enough to shut down all of our offensive weapons. And our defense has been good enough to get us through every storm. We're undefeated. Hard to get one's mind around.

One post game article, very complimentary of the Zag's, had one caveat; Raised the question of just how well would/will our guards do against other top tier back courts.... I think they mentioned Kansas' guards implying that the Kansas guards are just as good or even better than ours.

Also I think an elite backcourt that swarms our guards, disrupts passing and severely limits good 3's might be something to
worry a little about. No basketball mind here, so interested in thoughts, opinions.

john montana
02-12-2017, 09:14 AM
Beautiful first half of basketball from both teams. Rahon running the (illegal) pick and roll to perfection and gu getting the ball inside...it was pretty fun to watch. Then SMC mucked it up in the second half with increased physicality and the game got a lot uglier. Krebbs, hunter and pineau are tough customers and got really physical with our guys. That seemed to take us out of our offensive flow. No buckets the last 8 minutes, but we were getting fouled and making just enough free throws. Big win in a facility that needs to be replaced if SMC wants to be a consistent top 25 team.

RenoZag
02-12-2017, 09:29 AM
One post game article, very complimentary of the Zag's, had one caveat; Raised the question of just how well would/will our guards do against other top tier back courts.... I think they mentioned Kansas' guards implying that the Kansas guards are just as good or even better than ours.

Also I think an elite backcourt that swarms our guards, disrupts passing and severely limits good 3's might be something to
worry a little about. No basketball mind here, so interested in thoughts, opinions.

Coyote: West Virginia forces a ton of turnovers; their guards might give GU fits. KU & Villanova's guards are impressive too. I'm glad the Zags have SIZE at the G positions. In past seasons, it always felt like we were undersized at that position and it would bite us big time in the NCAA tourney.

DixieZag
02-12-2017, 09:41 AM
Coyote: West Virginia forces a ton of turnovers; their guards might give GU fits. KU & Villanova's guards are impressive too. I'm glad the Zags have SIZE at the G positions. In past seasons, it always felt like we were undersized at that position and it would bite us big time in the NCAA tourney.

Yes, WVU would be an absolute nightmare for us, imo. Didn't we play a team this year that did a lot of trapping defense on the guards and it really did bother us? Florida? In fact, SMC bothered us a bit last night, though as I noted above, I think they're a good defensive team.

I think we're a bit vulnerable there. Kind of makes me wish we had Norvelle, a 6'5 buffed guard, in addition to all the others

Reborn
02-12-2017, 09:42 AM
i DON'T WORRY ABOUT OUR GUARDS AT ALL. NWG may be the best guard in the country. Perkins is vey capable of knocking down thees if needed, and so can Mathews and Silas Melson. Melson may be the best guard coming off the bench in America. And here is the key. GU's guards can really defend. Remember, "defense wins championships." And here's the clincher. Gonzaga just might have the best front court in the country.

seacatfan
02-12-2017, 11:30 AM
'08-'09 Zags had a ton of talent but that team didn't really gel, didn't come close to maximizing their collective abilities. This year's team is hands down better.

Zag4Hire
02-12-2017, 01:51 PM
Zag4Hire,

You really think 08-09 is the best Few team? Did I read that right? Man I loved that team but a great team doesn't lose to Portland State. Imo

Yeah I have peddled that for a while now. To me, it isn't all about the record. 08/09 would have torched a few Zag teams with better records in a tourney game (12/13 & 05/06). The team started rocking and rolling around tourney time and their length presented serious issues for the opponents. I think if they don't run into the buzzsaw that was UNC in the South Regional, the team goes E8 or better.

That being said, when all is said and done, this is the best tournament team--seasoned vets with all kinds of different game types, a well-rounded offense that can pick up others, and a pressure on ball defense that forces team's to play the game GU wants.

I would prefer they don't lose and get the 4th #1 seed out West and play with a chip on their shoulder than get the 1st #1 seed (though they deserve it) because no team punches above their weight better than Gonzaga.

seacatfan
02-12-2017, 01:58 PM
'09 Tourney the Zags were kinda underwhelming in the 1st round against Akron and escaped by the skin of their teeth against Western Kentucky in the 2nd round. I don't see evidence of "if only they didn't run into North Carolina..." that they would've done much more.