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View Full Version : Top MBB matchup this week per ESPN-GU vs SMC



zagzilla
02-08-2017, 11:12 AM
http://es.pn/2lld9XC

"Based on BPI Matchup Quality, No. 1 Gonzaga's trip to Saint Mary's on Saturday is the top game of the week."

Rating the top matchups this week in MBB on a scale of 1-100, the GU vs SMC matchup is #1 in the country. We are living in heady times when our rivalry game at SMC is considered a higher quality matchup than UNC vs Duke or UWV vs KU.

Means both teams are really good.

Let's put on a show and get the win, Zags

ZZ

DixieZag
02-08-2017, 11:22 AM
Great find.

It is amazing, our game made up higher powered teams than UNC v. Duke

It'd be so nice to beat these guys by double digits (again) and look great while doing it.

Reborn
02-08-2017, 11:32 AM
Both games will be shown in Prime Time Television back east. I wonder which game will me viewed by more people. The Duke vs UNC game will be on Thursday and our game on Saturday.

BayAreaZagFan
02-08-2017, 11:48 AM
It'd be so nice to beat these guys by double digits (again) and look great while doing it.

I want this to happen so bad.

I know we need St. Mary's (along with 5 or 6 more schools in the WCC) to consistently field a good team so that the conference will get more respect. I know we want other teams in the WCC to get national attention, which will put more (good) attention on the conference overall. I know we want Gonzaga to be tested regularly, so that they're ready for March.

I just get annoyed when St. Mary's is painted as GU's arch-rival. I'm sure the main reason is because their record against the Zags is the least one-sided of any of the WCC schools, but it's still overwhelmingly in Gonzaga's favor. And also, they've probably had more recent success against Gonzaga than any other WCC school, but they've still only beaten them a few times in the last 10 years.

Oh well, I guess it's a good story line.

former1dog
02-08-2017, 11:51 AM
Both game will be shown in Prime Time Television back east. I wonder which game will me viewed by more people. The Duke vs UNC game will be on Thursday and our game on Saturday.

Unfortunately for our egos, it won't be close.

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 12:33 PM
Unfortunately for our egos, it won't be close.

Not only will UNC-Duke garner more attention, but so will Oregon-UCLA.

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 12:36 PM
I just get annoyed when St. Mary's is painted as GU's arch-rival. I'm sure the main reason is because their record against the Zags is the least one-sided of any of the WCC schools, but it's still overwhelmingly in Gonzaga's favor. And also, they've probably had more recent success against Gonzaga than any other WCC school, but they've still only beaten them a few times in the last 10 years.


If not St. Mary's, then does GU even have a rival? The series against UW has been completely lopsided on either end of the long hiatus. Arizona-GU is intriguing but isn't quite an annual meeting and until this year has also been fairly one sided. Some of the games were really close, but GU kept coming up short.

TexasZagFan
02-08-2017, 12:45 PM
If not St. Mary's, then does GU even have a rival? The series against UW has been completely lopsided on either end of the long hiatus. Arizona-GU is intriguing but isn't quite an annual meeting and until this year has also been fairly one sided. Some of the games were really close, but GU kept coming up short.

St. Mary's is a rival, if only because they've been in the Conference Championship game nearly as often as we have. Year-in and year-out, they've been our toughest competition.

gonzagafan62
02-08-2017, 12:48 PM
If not St. Mary's, then does GU even have a rival? The series against UW has been completely lopsided on either end of the long hiatus. Arizona-GU is intriguing but isn't quite an annual meeting and until this year has also been fairly one sided. Some of the games were really close, but GU kept coming up short.

I don't consider SMC a rival. I don't hate them and haven't hated them since Samhan. I've had respect for their players not their scheduling (not the players fault) have great respect for their fans too. But they aren't a rival because we beat them so often. If there's a fan base and team I actually dislike it's BYU. SMC is one of those teams I don't fear at all. I have more fear for BYU than SMC

VaBeachZAG
02-08-2017, 01:35 PM
Not only will UNC-Duke garner more attention, but so will Oregon-UCLA.

Agreed. Sadly, many of those who do tune in with connections to the big five conferences will be rooting strongly for a SMC win, and that's not a false fact!

amaronizag
02-08-2017, 02:51 PM
1) Didn't St. Mary's beat GU twice last year???
2) I don't hate them in the least.
3) Randy Bennet is a great coach and he knows how to get his team ready for GU better than anyone.
4) I look forward to that game more than any other conference game all year, and I suspect the feeling is mutual.

THAT makes us rivals and makes them our best conference rival....every year.

Section 116
02-08-2017, 02:56 PM
Interesting comment from the article: Williams-Goss, who sprained his ankle in the first half at BYU last week, is questionable to play Thursday night when Gonzaga (24-0, 12-0 West Coast Conference) plays Loyola Marymount (11-12, 4-8) in Los Angeles. I have not heard this information from any other source.

23dpg
02-08-2017, 03:18 PM
1) Didn't St. Mary's beat GU twice last year???
2) I don't hate them in the least.
3) Randy Bennet is a great coach and he knows how to get his team ready for GU better than anyone.
4) I look forward to that game more than any other conference game all year, and I suspect the feeling is mutual.

THAT makes us rivals and makes them our best conference rival....every year.

Agree. I've never understood the dislike for them. Good coach and program. Thank goodness for SMC. Can you imagine playing the WCC without them?

roundup
02-08-2017, 03:40 PM
It's clearly a lopsided record, but 8 wins in the last 10 years is probably more than "a few."

gonstu
02-08-2017, 03:50 PM
I believe in the past 10 years (including this year) it's Zags 21, SMC 8.

roundup
02-08-2017, 03:53 PM
Sounds about right.

roundup
02-08-2017, 04:00 PM
I don't consider SMC a rival. I don't hate them and haven't hated them since Samhan. I've had respect for their players not their scheduling (not the players fault) have great respect for their fans too. But they aren't a rival because we beat them so often. If there's a fan base and team I actually dislike it's BYU. SMC is one of those teams I don't fear at all. I have more fear for BYU than SMC

Why do you fear BYU more? They have had less success v you guys. Do you rate Rose over Bennett, Marriot as a harder place to play over McKeon, or the LDS pipeline over the Aussie pipeline? Not necessarily disagreeing, just curious.

DixieZag
02-08-2017, 05:15 PM
I believe it is a strong rivalry. I base that upon several things.

Most important, year in and year out, we regularly have 7-8 teams in the WCC that have absolutely no chance of beating us, and so it is very difficult to get up for the game. SMC has consistently been the team that has shown they can beat us, even if the record is 22-8 or whatever it is - they are real competition, and thus it's a game we (and I'm sure the student-players) look forward to.

Second, because of the way Bennet schedules, we are the team that SMC must beat at least once in order to get into the tournament, so they look forward to it, even more than just beating off a team in the way of a conference championship.

So, there are two teams that really point to one game - year after year - and thus the rivalry is built upon the confluence. Plus, there's a lot of respect between the programs/schools. I think Bennet's an ok guy, great coach, I just don't like that he robs his students of the ability to play the top teams and prove themselves.

But, I think it's a great rivalry.

MickMick
02-08-2017, 06:37 PM
SMC is so damned methodical on the offensive end and has always been that way. I think Bennett is an exceptional coach and his squad is always well prepared.

Zagceo
02-08-2017, 06:47 PM
Why do you fear BYU more? They have had less success v you guys. Do you rate Rose over Bennett, Marriot as a harder place to play over McKeon, or the LDS pipeline over the Aussie pipeline? Not necessarily disagreeing, just curious.

Under Few..

.667 winning % over BYU

.804 winning % over SMC

roundup
02-08-2017, 07:03 PM
Under Few..

.667 winning % over BYU

.804 winning % over SMC

So you are just going to discount the dozen or so additional years Few has played SMC? The sample size may effect the %... Not the most logical approach.

Head to head, SMC is 7-4 v BYU since they joined the WCC. In the same time period, SMC has won the WCC outright, tied with GU as WCC champs, won the WCC tournament, and appeared in 3/5 of the WCC championship games. BYU has never won the WCC regular season or tournament and appeared in 2/5 of the WCC championship games. In the BYU WCC era, both SMC and BYU have beat GU 4 times.

Those numbers might be more useful if you want a genuine comparison of how each program has faired in the WCC.

gonzagafan62
02-08-2017, 08:17 PM
Why do you fear BYU more? They have had less success v you guys. Do you rate Rose over Bennett, Marriot as a harder place to play over McKeon, or the LDS pipeline over the Aussie pipeline? Not necessarily disagreeing, just curious.

Hi roundup, nice to see you join us again.

I fear BYU more because they play hack basketball and don't play straight up ball - as I feel like they play more football than basketball. I am also more afraid of going into mariott -yes. I don't like the fans that boo after every call even when it's clear against them. I understand if a call goes against them but sheesh. I've also never gotten mad at SMC themselves .... but I've made several angry posts about BYU, their fans and their style of play. I can respect a team that beats us by hitting shots not our faces.

I don't fear SMC because I feel like SMC plays straight up basketball. That's why I don't hate them. Besides SMC, there's not a lot of teams in this conference that don't try to just "muck it up" as the only part to their game plan. I like Coach Bennett. He's a really nice guy. I enjoy Rose too. I have nothing against the aussies, actually I encourage it. It's made SMC better which I enjoy - same with LDS.

One funny note is that I'm a medical biller. Our software is based out of Utah. The two big whigs are fans of BYU and they come down to see us twice a year. They are really nice guys but they show how much they hate Gonzaga. Always make sure I wear my zags gear when they come haha.

Anyway, last thing, I think everything got kicked off on the wrong foot when a lot of their fans and reporters (not Rose) said that they'd own this league every year. I start to find a lot of humor that they haven't won any but SMC and Gonzaga have won titles since they've joined.

I think of SMC as friends who have a gentlemens rivalry. But it's not a true rivalry in my eyes because a real rivalry means you have to hate them. I don't hate SMC, but I sure do hate BYU, and I fear them more because they don't play straight. They gotta bang you around and I just hope we survive the game.

That's why I fear BYU over SMC. Not because we are more likely to win a game over SMC. I don't mind losing to the better team ..... the better team doesn't play like BYU does. They are ridiculous IMO

Reborn
02-08-2017, 08:20 PM
It's a great rivalry. The game between us is shown every year during Rivalry Week on ESPN. Rivalries add passion to the game of basketball. In the late 60's, when I attended GU, WSU was a HUGE RIVALRY.

I would like to know what the student body thinks.

I only root for them if they make it to the NCAA Tournament. That's it, and it's only because they're a member of the WCC.
I don't like Randy Bennett. Not at all. How could anyone like a coach who has disrespected our coach and players in public, over and over and over again. He is a great role model for his players. Do you remember one of their most popular players ever, Omar Samhan when he FLIPPED OFF our student body in a game on TV, and everyone saw it. And Mr Bennett did nothing about it. SORRY i'm not politically correct. But I am just being honest. I'm getting angry so I had better STOP. However, I can't wait for the game to start. And yes, I believe in paybacks. I hope we slaughter them right on their home court, And I hope that Randy Bennett refuses to shake our coaches and players hands. That moment, when he refuses to shake our team's hands, that one act, describes for me perfectly what a true rivalry looks like. It's The ultimate.

Go Zags!!!

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 08:36 PM
62--I don't understand how you dislike BYU's style so much, but let the coach off the hook. How is it possible he's not directly responsible for the way they play? If you despise the way BYU plays the game, how can you possibly like the coach? I'm mystified.

ProVeeZag
02-08-2017, 08:57 PM
Agree. I've never understood the dislike for them. Good coach and program. Thank goodness for SMC. Can you imagine playing the WCC without them?

I'm guessing the "dislike" of St Mary's shared by some posters stems from bitter memories of players like Omar Samhan and Matt Dellevedova, possibly a few others. Those two, in particular, seemed to ably fill the role of "villains" and were involved in some bruising, head-to-head battles that resulted in some Zag losses. I have no heated animosity towards their program, feel they provide a high level of competition for us and make the WCC a better league. I do recall former Gaels star, Diamon Simpson (2005-09) who always played us very tough, especially on the glass. Apparently he still plays professionally in Czechoslovakia.

jpn17
02-08-2017, 09:04 PM
1) Didn't St. Mary's beat GU twice last year???

Yes, but it was the first time that Saint Mary's had beaten Gonzaga since 2012. 2012 was also the last time SMC won the WCC tournament. Their biggest run of success was 2010-2012, with guys like Delly, Samhan and McConnell, where they won their only outright WCC championship and won 2 of 3 tournament titles. Outside of those 3 years, they really haven't done anything more vs Gonzaga than any other WCC team and even including those years Bennett's record vs Gonzaga is 9-32. SMC is not on Gonzaga's level though some people will try to tell you they are. I won't argue that SMC has easily been Gonzaga's biggest competition in the WCC the last 15 years since Bennett arrived, and have no problem with anyone that wants to consider them a rival, but I also see the argument of people that don't consider them a rival as well.

roundup
02-08-2017, 09:06 PM
I hear you 62, that makes sense. As far as the Bennett handshake thing, seems like some fans are hypersensitive. RB has never refused to shake hands with Few or players, he just does a blow by handshake for whatever reason. Not the best look, but not really offensive and hardly a reason to "hate someone." So not sure if Reborn is misinformed or finds a quick handshake offensive, but in either event hatred doesn't make such sense. I too thought Omar needed to be reigned in more by RB but he was a tough guy to control. PVZ, did you really consider Delly a villain of the Samhain variety? I didn't think that narrative even existed until the NBA haha. Nice talking with you guys!

roundup
02-08-2017, 09:08 PM
I'm certainly not saying SMC is on Gonzagas level. But characterizing them as just another WCC team with a few wins over Gonzaga in a decade doesn't really hold water either.

gonzagafan62
02-08-2017, 09:26 PM
62--I don't understand how you dislike BYU's style so much, but let the coach off the hook. How is it possible he's not directly responsible for the way they play? If you despise the way BYU plays the game, how can you possibly like the coach? I'm mystified.

Yes you're right. His style sucks and that's a knock on him, but that's pretty shallow minded to put him on a hatred for the coach just for that one thing right? He seems to be a guy who's very respectful towards Gonzaga (at least from my point of view) and never bought into the fact that BYU is just better than Gonzaga and will kill us every time. That earns a lot of respect from me. I don't expect to just go into mariott and kill BYU or SMC. Do I think we will beat them? Of course I'm a fan and a homer at that. I don't hate the guy just his style. That's like you possibly hating me because you don't like my style of work as a medical biller .... but you come over to my house and we have a cold one and you find out I'm a pretty nice guy with a great family. Lol

Idk maybe I took it too far? Lol

jpn17
02-08-2017, 09:34 PM
I'm certainly not saying SMC is on Gonzagas level. But characterizing them as just another WCC team with a few wins over Gonzaga in a decade doesn't really hold water either.

I'm not trying to say that Saint Mary's isn't a good team, or trying to say that they're not a step (or ten) above the rest of the teams in the WCC because they clearly are. I was only trying to say that they have not been able to maintain consistent success against Gonzaga. They have found success for stretches, but it always fades.

roundup
02-08-2017, 10:12 PM
I'm not trying to say that Saint Mary's isn't a good team, or trying to say that they're not a step (or ten) above the rest of the teams in the WCC because they clearly are. I was only trying to say that they have not been able to maintain consistent success against Gonzaga. They have found success for stretches, but it always fades.

I don't necessarily disagree with that. From 07-08 to 11-12 I felt like we were able to go toe to toe with you guys, even if that wasn't reflected in the W-L column (5-11). Patty Mills injury likely robbed us of 1-2 wins v GU and certainly a birth in the NCAAS. The McConnell / Dellavedova Gaels never seemed outclassed by the Zags and the games were mostly competitive if not instant classics (see the two regular season 2011 games). Dellys junior year we were able to take advantage of a freshman backcourt and finally win the WCC and WCC tourney outright (still a travesty Bennett was not named COY).

But starting in 2012-2013 with KO you guys simply went to a whole different level we couldn't match even with a senior NBA bound Delly. In the post Delly / sanctions era (which cruelly coincided with Delly's heir apparent whom RB had been recruiting since the 8th grade decommitting from SMC at the last second), we stopped being competitive with GU altogether. That being said, Bennett weathered the storm like few other coaches could have and now has us back in the realm of top 25 / NCAA tourney / (hopefully) competing with the Zags. But the Zags are simultaneously rising to true blue blood level with the likes of NWG caliber transfers and potential one and done burger boys a la Collins.

No idea if we will be able to consistently compete in this new era of Zagdom, but Saturday should tell us a lot about what the future holds for the putative "rivalry."

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 10:45 PM
Yes you're right. His style sucks and that's a knock on him, but that's pretty shallow minded to put him on a hatred for the coach just for that one thing right? He seems to be a guy who's very respectful towards Gonzaga (at least from my point of view) and never bought into the fact that BYU is just better than Gonzaga and will kill us every time. That earns a lot of respect from me. I don't expect to just go into mariott and kill BYU or SMC. Do I think we will beat them? Of course I'm a fan and a homer at that. I don't hate the guy just his style. That's like you possibly hating me because you don't like my style of work as a medical biller .... but you come over to my house and we have a cold one and you find out I'm a pretty nice guy with a great family. Lol

Idk maybe I took it too far? Lol

Not sure what to do with this. Maybe if as a medical biller you sent Vinnie the thumb breaker to visit some of your customers when they had outstanding bills I'd have a problem w/ your "style," otherwise the analogy loses me I guess. Rose may be a great guy to hang out with and maybe he gives good interviews and is complimentary toward his opponents, but I can't get past the way he coaches his team to play basketball.

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 10:46 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with that. From 07-08 to 11-12 I felt like we were able to go toe to toe with you guys, even if that wasn't reflected in the W-L column (5-11). Patty Mills injury likely robbed us of 1-2 wins v GU and certainly a birth in the NCAAS. The McConnell / Dellavedova Gaels never seemed outclassed by the Zags and the games were mostly competitive if not instant classics (see the two regular season 2011 games). Dellys junior year we were able to take advantage of a freshman backcourt and finally win the WCC and WCC tourney outright (still a travesty Bennett was not named COY).

But starting in 2012-2013 with KO you guys simply went to a whole different level we couldn't match even with a senior NBA bound Delly. In the post Delly / sanctions era (which cruelly coincided with Delly's heir apparent whom RB had been recruiting since the 8th grade decommitting from SMC at the last second), we stopped being competitive with GU altogether. That being said, Bennett weathered the storm like few other coaches could have and now has us back in the realm of top 25 / NCAA tourney / (hopefully) competing with the Zags. But the Zags are simultaneously rising to true blue blood level with the likes of NWG caliber transfers and potential one and done burger boys a la Collins.

No idea if we will be able to consistently compete in this new era of Zagdom, but Saturday should tell us a lot about what the future holds for the putative "rivalry."

That's a great post. Thanks for sharing your perspective. Very intriguing.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-09-2017, 01:57 AM
I believe that this is the best and most complete Gaels team ever. They are a legitimate Top 20 team with an excellent shot to make a Sweet Sixteen run. This SMC team would win the WCC outright in most seasons.

I also believe that they are outmatched by the best and most complete Zags team ever. I think the Zags will win out and sweep the two remaining matches.

The Gaels will be a bubble team on Selection Sunday with four total losses. The national pundits will underestimate them. They will be under seeded, but they will make the Dance. They will be a tough out, because they play a different style of ball than anybody else in the country. They are tough to prepare for on short notice. They will have ample opportunity to take out some unsuspecting BCS league teams that have never see a team that shoots and passes as well as they do.