PDA

View Full Version : Who starts at center next year IF....



dhozagfan08
02-08-2017, 05:55 AM
I know this has been talked about in other threads, but with Collins rising on the draft boards I wanted this topic to have its own thread. If Collins leaves after this year and we don't get a grad transfer, who starts at center next year? I don't think Few has ever started a freshman center, so Larson doesn't seem likely. Edwards is forever in the doghouse, so he is out. Even though it won't have a traditional Few look, I'm guessing he goes with Tillie and Williams starting and sharing duties guarding the other team's center. I saw that there are two undeclared centers in the top 10 for the 2017 class and wish we could grab one by showing off how we got a backup big into the first round (ala Kentucky) but I know that won't happen. Thoughts?

strikenowhere
02-08-2017, 06:03 AM
Yeah, the front court depth is going to be a big concern if Collins leaves. Edwards is done, minutes-wise, so the answer is probably out there on the graduate transfer or juco wire unfortunately - the team just isn't high profile enough to grab an undeclared top 10 center this late in the recruiting cycle. We just don't know how Larsen's going to be, and if I recall correctly he's had injury issues prior to his current situation which is never a good sign, but he'll at least be coming in off the bench. Williams & Tillie would definitely be the penciled-in starters.

Zagricultural
02-08-2017, 06:23 AM
I still think Collins comes back. Patience will be rewarded in his case.

gonzagafan62
02-08-2017, 06:27 AM
A transfer

LongIslandZagFan
02-08-2017, 06:30 AM
Tille or Larsen. No worries either way.

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2017, 06:42 AM
Tille or Larsen. No worries either way.

I don't think Tillie is in any way, shape or form a center. He's a pf and a very good one at that. If the reports outta fall camp are accurate, I think Larsen will start or a grad transfer.

Zagdawg
02-08-2017, 06:43 AM
Larsen/Williams/Tillie/Edwards/Rui/Transfer are the bigs if Collins decides to leave early.

LongIslandZagFan
02-08-2017, 06:48 AM
I don't think Tillie is in any way, shape or form a center. He's a pf and a very good one at that. If the reports outta fall camp are accurate, I think Larsen will start or a grad transfer.

Our current center doesn't even take the jumps. Sabonis and Wiltjer were NOT centers... yet they did pretty good anyhow.

TexasZagFan
02-08-2017, 06:49 AM
I don't think Tillie is in any way, shape or form a center. He's a pf and a very good one at that. If the reports outta fall camp are accurate, I think Larsen will start or a grad transfer.

In today's college game, two power forwards on the court at the same time are common. We'll be fine.

btzag
02-08-2017, 06:51 AM
Larsen. It would get real interesting if Williams also left for pros...

U Zig, I Zag
02-08-2017, 07:00 AM
Our current center doesn't even take the jumps. Sabonis and Wiltjer were NOT centers... yet they did pretty good anyhow.

Hey, when you are 7' and 300lbs+ jumping is a waste of energy!

LongIslandZagFan
02-08-2017, 07:00 AM
Hey, when you are 7' and 300lbs+ jumping is a waste of energy!

:roll:

Thanks for that one.

LongIslandZagFan
02-08-2017, 07:02 AM
In today's college game, two power forwards on the court at the same time are common. We'll be fine.

I think this was what I was trying to say... less eloquently. Thanks Tex.

TexasZagFan
02-08-2017, 07:15 AM
I think this was what I was trying to say... less eloquently. Thanks Tex.

Yeah, but you beat me by a minute, lol.

ETA: our bigs will be more than adequate next year. College hoops is driven by guard play, and we are set up for the next 2-3 years. The balance of this year's team is truly historic.

Chicken Ball
02-08-2017, 08:32 AM
OK, don't mean to derail, but this is something that comes organically out of the Center discussion. Given Tillie's quickness and ball skills, wouldn't he make sense at the SF?

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2017, 08:44 AM
OK, don't mean to derail, but this is something that comes organically out of the Center discussion. Given Tillie's quickness and ball skills, wouldn't he make sense at the SF?

He probably could, but we're loaded there with Rui, Kispert and ZN. Killian is needed at the pf where it's just him and JW III.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2017, 08:48 AM
Time for Few to start peaking his head around the rowing team again.

TexasZagFan
02-08-2017, 08:59 AM
Time for Few to start peaking his head around the rowing team again.

Please explain.

Zagdawg
02-08-2017, 09:11 AM
The Zag rowing team had a big kid who practiced with the Zags bball team a few years back.

Hogan
02-08-2017, 09:11 AM
Playing two power forwards at center is one thing. Playing two under-sized power forwards at center is something else entirely. Particularly for a program whose calling card has included big, hard post up centers.

ZagOD7540
02-08-2017, 09:18 AM
We definitely need Collins to come back. Larson is a nice looking kid with some size, but not ready to step in and play extended minutes next year. I've seen him working out and he needs to really strengthen his lower body. He is pretty thin and needs to put on some weight. Losing Collins would be really tough.

zagfan24
02-08-2017, 09:52 AM
Zags will be fine. Traditional positions have been increasingly obsolete, and Few seems to be very adept at fitting his scheme to his roster. Obviously it's ideal to have a guy like Karnowski, Sacre, or Collins in the middle. But I believe the set of returnees would do just fine, and I do believe the Zags will likely seek out a grad transfer if necessary.

zagdontzig
02-08-2017, 10:12 AM
I don't think y'all are giving Edwards enough credit for upside. PK was a bumbling fool when he came in, I remember he couldn't stay on his feet. Anytime he got touched, he was on his ass. Edwards needs to get his diet and conditioning together, but he has good foot work, and a nice touch around the rim. I think he could be a solid rotation guy with a few summar classes from Zags Big Man U.

jazzdelmar
02-08-2017, 10:19 AM
He probably could, but we're loaded there with Rui, Kispert and ZN. Killian is needed at the pf where it's just him and JW III.

Loaded? Hardly. Well, loaded with inexperience and question marks. Killie is battle hardened and a quintessential SF.

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 10:21 AM
Edwards looks fine when he gets a little run in garbage minutes. I think that ship has sailed though. Clearly Few didn't really trust him last year after Karno got hurt and he was literally the only other big on the roster after Wiltjer and Sabonis. Got the fewest minutes possible to give the starters just a tiny bit of rest. He is a 4th year Jr., I don't think there's much upside left. What he is right now is what he will be beyond this season. He might look to some of us like he deserves more minutes, but I think if it hasn't happened by now it's not going to happen. Regardless of who leaves or who comes in next year, I don't think Edwards will ever be a starter or major rotation guy at GU. Just my opinion obviously, but I think there's ample evidence to support it.

jazzdelmar
02-08-2017, 10:22 AM
Edwards looks fine when he gets a little run in garbage minutes. I think that ship has sailed though. Clearly Few didn't really trust him last year after Karno got hurt and he was literally the only other big on the roster after Wiltjer and Sabonis. Got the fewest minutes possible to give the starters just a tiny bit of rest. He is a 4th year Jr., I don't think there's much upside left. What he is right now is what he will be beyond this season. He might look to some of us like he deserves more minutes, but I think if it hasn't happened by now it's not going to happen. Regardless of who leaves or who comes in next year, I don't think Edwards will ever be a starter or major rotation guy at GU. Just my opinion obviously, but I think there's ample evidence to support it.

That is what the tea leaves, and common sense, say.

jagwalkley
02-08-2017, 10:33 AM
I still think Collins comes back. Patience will be rewarded in his case.

He will need another year if he is smart.

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2017, 10:46 AM
Loaded? Hardly. Well, loaded with inexperience and question marks. Killie is battle hardened and a quintessential SF.

He hasn't played that position once all season. He's needed much more at pf, because other than him it's JW III and then ???

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2017, 10:48 AM
I mean I guess we could go with a starting 5 of:

PG: Perk
SG: Melson
SF: Tillie
PF: JW III
C: Larsen

but question marks would abound at the backup 4 and 5 spots, but that would be a very tall lineup.

zagdontzig
02-08-2017, 10:54 AM
I mean I guess we could go with a starting 5 of:

PG: Perk
SG: Melson
SF: Tillie
PF: JW III
C: Larsen

but question marks would abound at the backup 4 and 5 spots, but that would be a very tall lineup.

Norvell may take Melson's spot, although Melson will be such a veteran by then...

tyra
02-08-2017, 11:01 AM
Uh, NWG?

DixieZag
02-08-2017, 11:14 AM
Uh, NWG?

22-23 y/o, with a degree and graduate classes taken, and played himself right into a nice paycheck somewhere in the world, "mastered the college game," - no upside to coming back.

The only conceivable way I see him staying is if they come up a little short this year and he desperately wants that national championship. But, even then ...

maynard g krebs
02-08-2017, 11:24 AM
PK was a bumbling fool when he came in, I remember he couldn't stay on his feet.

That's the worst post of the year. Congrats. Mike Montgomery disagrees w/ you, btw. So does coach K, if memory serves, among others.

Edwards upside? This is his 4th year. Gimme a break.

TexasZagFan
02-08-2017, 11:24 AM
I mean I guess we could go with a starting 5 of:

PG: Perk
SG: Melson
SF: Tillie
PF: JW III
C: Larsen

but question marks would abound at the backup 4 and 5 spots, but that would be a very tall lineup.

Question marks? Hardly...I'm thinking Kispert and Rui will be in the rotation.

I'm looking for another 8 man rotation next year, 4 bigs, 4 guards. Mixing in newcomers with battle hardened vets.

DixieZag
02-08-2017, 11:27 AM
Collins will stay.

It's his team next year.

And he can play himself into a top 5 pick.

maynard g krebs
02-08-2017, 11:27 AM
Loaded? Hardly. Well, loaded with inexperience and question marks. Killie is battle hardened and a quintessential SF.

Norvell and Kispert are gonna be as game ready from day one as Pangos/Bell and half a dozen others. I'm very confident saying that.

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2017, 11:30 AM
Question marks? Hardly...I'm thinking Kispert and Rui will be in the rotation.

I'm looking for another 8 man rotation next year, 4 bigs, 4 guards. Mixing in newcomers with battle hardened vets.

They'll be at the 2 and 3 spot, not 4 or 5.

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2017, 11:30 AM
Norvell and Kispert are gonna be as game ready from day one as Pangos/Bell and half a dozen others. I'm very confident saying that.

Agreed, but at the 2 and 3 spots. I think we'll be loaded at the wings. Tommy is already on record as saying that Rui is a sf.

maynard g krebs
02-08-2017, 11:37 AM
Agreed, but at the 2 and 3 spots. I think we'll be loaded at the wings. Tommy is already on record as saying that Rui is a sf.

Yes, that's what I meant, in response to the idea of Tillie as a 3. Both fr wings will be in the rotation imo, and one could start if NWG goes pro.

I do think that situationally, either Rui or Kispert can play the 4 (injury, foul trouble or just for a different look)

zag buddy
02-08-2017, 12:08 PM
Edwards will graduate this year. I would like to see him transfer to another school in our conference, be a starter, play the zags and school whoever we put at center. I've seen him play even with Sacre. For whatever reason, similar to Foster, Ryan does not seem to have been taken under any coaches wing and developed to his potential. I've seen Edwards and Karnoski over the summer with their shirts off and there wasn't that much difference. Look at his stats for playing time if you think I'm crazy.

Zaga
02-08-2017, 12:15 PM
Collins will stay. It's his team next year. And he can play himself into a top 5 pick.

That is where I would put my money!

Zagdawg
02-08-2017, 12:17 PM
Agree

77Zag
02-08-2017, 01:49 PM
Bol Kong still has eligibility?

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 02:09 PM
Edwards will graduate this year. I would like to see him transfer to another school in our conference, be a starter, play the zags and school whoever we put at center. I've seen him play even with Sacre. For whatever reason, similar to Foster, Ryan does not seem to have been taken under any coaches wing and developed to his potential. I've seen Edwards and Karnoski over the summer with their shirts off and there wasn't that much difference. Look at his stats for playing time if you think I'm crazy.

I certainly wouldn't fault him at all if he transferred after this season. I personally would rather not see him at another WCC school and not have the Zags face him. Maybe going back home to Montana would work out well for him.

zagdontzig
02-08-2017, 02:34 PM
That's the worst post of the year. Congrats. Mike Montgomery disagrees w/ you, btw. So does coach K, if memory serves, among others.

Edwards upside? This is his 4th year. Gimme a break.

What are you saying was bad analysis? That PK sucked or Edwards has upside as a rotation guy? Or both?

amaronizag
02-08-2017, 02:40 PM
I would hate to see Ryan Edwards leave after this season. He has been a workhorse in practice providing another 7 foot big body for our players to bang against and gain valuable experience. No substitute for that prep without him in the gym. Also hard to predict what his playing time might be a year from now. Better too deep than not deep enough.

RenoZag
02-08-2017, 02:48 PM
Edwards will graduate this year. I would like to see him transfer to another school in our conference, be a starter, play the zags and school whoever we put at center.

We'll have a better idea of what his future plans are when the starters are announced on 2/25 vs. BYU.

mgadfly
02-08-2017, 03:19 PM
What are you saying was bad analysis? That PK sucked or Edwards has upside as a rotation guy? Or both?

Karno had 22 points in his first game in 20 minutes and 20 points in 19 minutes in his third game. I remember Karno being exceptionally strong and skilled right out of the gate.

I disagree with Krebs on Edwards' upside. There hasn't been much of an opportunity for Edwards to earn minutes in actual games and anyone that is at all objective about it would see that. Last year he had improved his conditioning and was looking very good and when Karno went down they were left with three guys. He'd busted his rear to be in that position and instead of getting 20 minutes per game, we kept Sabonis and Wiltjer on the floor the entire game if possible. Coming into this season he had to know that he had no chance to see the floor (I mean, if you give it your all, and you are the ONLY option off the bench, and you still don't get playing time ...) so what kind of motivation does he really have at this point when he'd be competing for reserve minutes against the most heralded recruit we've ever signed? He plays out this season making the starters better in practice knowing that he'll never be needed for more than two or three minutes in an actual meaningful game. He wins a national championship, has a degree in hand, and the option to transfer to anywhere he wants and give it his all there if he cares to. What he's done on the floor in limited minutes would have at least 7 WCC schools giving him minutes on the court, even if he's been stuck behind pros and McDonald All-Americans at GU.

zag buddy
02-08-2017, 04:50 PM
Something else that impressed me this summer was that Ryan numerous times would be the only player that would play every minute of the scrimmage throughout the scrimmage while every other player would take a break. He has a great motor which you will never see.

maynard g krebs
02-09-2017, 12:05 AM
What are you saying was bad analysis? That PK sucked or Edwards has upside as a rotation guy? Or both?

Both. But I responded as I did because I thought your phrasing (bumbling fool) in regard to PK was offensive in addition to being wrong. He got in the rotation as 4th big on a deep team and played 10.7 min per game (14 for Tillie this year), averaged 5.4 ppg on .567 fg shooting and 2.6 boards. He was good enough to work into the rotation when the team had 3 vets ahead of him in Olynyk, Harris, Dower.

Last year the big rotation was down to two, because that's all there were who were capable of contributing meaningfully in Few's eyes.

WallaWallaZag
02-09-2017, 12:59 AM
Killie is battle hardened and a quintessential SF.

hardly...how many 6'10 small forwards are there in the college ranks???
he's quick for his size and has good lateral movement but it wouldn't take a josh jackson to run circles around him.

titopoet
02-09-2017, 07:01 AM
I don't think Tillie is in any way, shape or form a center. He's a pf and a very good one at that. If the reports outta fall camp are accurate, I think Larsen will start or a grad transfer.

Neither was Sabonis a center but Few adjusted his sets. Also, no counting Larson out yet. And I wonder how the experiment of transforming Rui into a 3 will be.

zag67
02-09-2017, 07:37 AM
Remember Few is not going to have a lot of time to tinker with the team early. He has the Portland Nike tournament with the top teams in the nation and then Villanova in New York.
So my put is if Collins does go, which I hope and do not think he will:

Perkins
Melson
Norvell
JWIII
Tillie

Then quickly off the bench Kispert (3), Larsen (5), Alberts (2,3)' Rui (4), Edwards, (5),Jones (3/4)

Kispert will become a solid 3/4 but will need time to adjust
Jones and Alberts could become a stopper
Rui I think will bring energy and athletism
Larsen can become our solid center
Edwards would be a good bacup
Melson would move to the point when Perkins is out. Also I am not sure about Wade with 2 years off. He could be the point backup solution for short times.

scrooner
02-09-2017, 08:10 AM
ESPN Insider article on the subject: http://insider.espn.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/insider/post?id=16686

"Collins was the lowest-ranked McDonald’s All American last season, but he has showed as a freshman that he certainly deserved the selection given his rapid improvement and high ceiling. It’s going to be difficult for coach Mark Few to find a 7-footer with Collins’ shooting ability, especially since starting center Przemek Karnowski is a senior. Freshman Killian Tillie could be a natural replacement, as he’s an excellent rebounder who can also make shots from the perimeter. If Tillie isn’t the answer, the Bulldogs have had tremendous success with graduate transfers and international options. Moreover, Collins could return to Spokane."

zagdontzig
02-09-2017, 10:16 AM
Both. But I responded as I did because I thought your phrasing (bumbling fool) in regard to PK was offensive in addition to being wrong. He got in the rotation as 4th big on a deep team and played 10.7 min per game (14 for Tillie this year), averaged 5.4 ppg on .567 fg shooting and 2.6 boards. He was good enough to work into the rotation when the team had 3 vets ahead of him in Olynyk, Harris, Dower.

Last year the big rotation was down to two, because that's all there were who were capable of contributing meaningfully in Few's eyes.

I think it's a stretch to say Harris was taking PK's minutes, they weren't really playing the same position, even when Few went small with Stockton at 1 and Pangos at 2. With regards to Kelly and Sam though, I agree. I stand by the notion that PK couldn't stay on his feet after contact, and it created offensive and defensive holes anytime he took a hit. He ended up on his ass a lot, and he turned the ball over as much when he took contact or a double.

GlacierZag
02-09-2017, 01:50 PM
We'll have a better idea of what his future plans are when the starters are announced on 2/25 vs. BYU.

It'll also be interesting to see who's mom ends up with a dozen red roses before the game ...

jazzdelmar
02-09-2017, 02:04 PM
Most of the Collins-free lineups are foreboding, particularly when compared to now. Going to be a drop off. So let's enjoy this run.

dhozagfan08
02-09-2017, 02:05 PM
It'll also be interesting to see who's mom ends up with a dozen red roses before the game ...

Do underclassmen leaving early give their moms roses? I don't remember that happening before. Did Sabonis do that last year?

maynard g krebs
02-09-2017, 02:36 PM
I think it's a stretch to say Harris was taking PK's minutes, they weren't really playing the same position, even when Few went small with Stockton at 1 and Pangos at 2.

Who said that? I sure didn't. Straw man argument?? I Just pointed out that Karno was deemed good enough as a true frosh to crack a rotation with 3 other bigs, in response to you calling him a "bumbling fool" or some such.

MDABE80
02-09-2017, 03:15 PM
Lotsa trouble if we lost 2 of the better centers we've had in years and lose em at the same time. Then, like it was 5-10 years ago, Few reshapes the talent so he gets the best performance. I doubt Collins leaves even though he probably is first round in the 20's. So we have two good 6 ft 9 in kids that can fill the bill if they're athletic enough. We got spoiled by Karno's bulk. Not so much a rim protector but he sure clogs the lane.

I'm not even certain we couldn't get some very good minutes from Edwards if he has the stamina. He's simply has been ignored. What the reasons are, I don't know. Whenever I've seen him in Summer or on the floor, he's been great. Soft touch, makes his FT's and bulk!
Maybe Few and staff should review his situation. We'll get some highly prized transfers with the season we're having. I do fervently hope the kids prove the no 1 seed and no ranking are deserved. I wanna be watching the championship game with the Zags in it. I guess, aside from the inconvenience of Collins leaving, I really like the kid and want to watch him for another year or two. These kids are so fun as they develope.

Ok 24-0 . 26-0 by Monday. (crossing fingers). Leave no doubt.

GlacierZag
02-09-2017, 03:16 PM
Do underclassmen leaving early give their moms roses? I don't remember that happening before. Did Sabonis do that last year?

Edwards isn't an underclassman. He is a Senior in college who used a redshirt as a freshman. Sabonis didn't graduate last May. Edwards WILL get his Gonzaga degree 3 months from now. "IF" Ryan Edwards starts on Senior Night that'll be a pretty good clue that he will go the Grad Transfer route next season. And of course part of the Senior Night tradition is the roses for mom. So there should be some clues before the BYU tipoff.

dhozagfan08
02-09-2017, 04:06 PM
Edwards isn't an underclassman. He is a Senior in college who used a redshirt as a freshman. Sabonis didn't graduate last May. Edwards WILL get his Gonzaga degree 3 months from now. "IF" Ryan Edwards starts on Senior Night that'll be a pretty good clue that he will go the Grad Transfer route next season. And of course part of the Senior Night tradition is the roses for mom. So there should be some clues before the BYU tipoff.

Pretty sure it goes be eligibility, not academic standing. Back to my question worded differently, has any player ever given roses on senior night when they still had eligibility left?! I'm guessing the answer is no.

RenoZag
02-09-2017, 04:40 PM
Edwards isn't an underclassman. He is a Senior in college who used a redshirt as a freshman. Sabonis didn't graduate last May. Edwards WILL get his Gonzaga degree 3 months from now. "IF" Ryan Edwards starts on Senior Night that'll be a pretty good clue that he will go the Grad Transfer route next season. And of course part of the Senior Night tradition is the roses for mom. So there should be some clues before the BYU tipoff.

I hope Ryan makes the best decision for him, whether he hangs up his sneakers for good, decides to use his remaining year of eligibility elsewhere, or returns to GU.

Wish him the best.

GlacierZag
02-09-2017, 04:50 PM
I hope Ryan makes the best decision for him, whether he hangs up his sneakers for good, decides to use his remaining year of eligibility elsewhere, or returns to GU.

Wish him the best.

Agreed. 100%.

btzag
02-09-2017, 05:28 PM
Whether Collins leaves or not, he definitely has areas of his game that need serious improvement before he could make a meaningful impact in the NBA:

- overall strength: he's not a weakling but needs another 5-10 lbs to absorb the pounding of the best college bigs and especially in the NBA.
- passing: he's the worst passer of our four bigs. Doesn't recognize the defense well yet and is a little bit of a black hole when he gets the ball. Sure he does well with receiving the pass and scoring but needs more ball movement in his game for next level.
- elite defense: has great ability to be an elite defender but is not there yet at all. Even the best bigs in wcc like Mika and landale have exposed him and NBA bigs would eat him up in early years.

Sure he could get drafted on potential but I really really really hope he comes back to improve these areas before getting thrown to the wolves in the pros.

zagsfanforlife
02-09-2017, 08:26 PM
Same crowd that thought Wiltjer was gone after his jr year saying NWG is gone...

Europe will always be there. He isnt going pro after this year.. although i think hes a solid nba player, mock drafts still dont have him first round in this years draft. None that i see have him first round? Guys dont leave early for 2nd round... he will be back. Unless we make a final four run, his stock dramatically soars and he can get in the end of the first round.

seacatfan
02-10-2017, 11:55 AM
Guys dont leave early for 2nd round

Nick Johnson did. That's one example off the top of my head, I bet there are more.

maynard g krebs
02-10-2017, 11:56 AM
Nick Johnson did. That's one example off the top of my head, I bet there are more.

Isaiah Thomas

seacatfan
02-10-2017, 12:01 PM
Jeez, maybe it's just an Arizona thing, but these guys all had eligibility left and were 2nd rounders:

Gilbert Arenas '99
Michael Wright '01
Marcus Williams '07
Chase Budinger '09
Grant Jerrett '13
Nick Johnson '14

So much for the theory that nobody leaves early for the 2nd round.

dhozagfan08
02-10-2017, 02:00 PM
ZAGS don't leave early for the second round? That must be what he meant. At the time Nigel chose to transfer to GU there was talk of him being a fringe first rounder, and UW thought he was going to the NBA. So it makes sense that he would come back if he isn't breaking into the first round, yet. Otherwise why not just go strait from UW?

Bogozags
02-10-2017, 04:39 PM
I would like Collins to stay another year regardless if we reach the FF...I also believed that Austin Daye should have stayed one more year but he got greedy and wanted the money and he is set up for life but he could have benefited from one more year of playing...

Ok, that being said, coaching at the NBA level will be far better than he can get in college, because they will teach him NBA basketball as a stretch-4 or 5. If he continues playing at or above his current level, then he will move up the draft boards...

Coach Few had confidence in his ability to adjust on defence, when he was put back in with 6 and change left in the first half WITH his two fouls...I will venture to say that Zach Collins has more up side as a GU post player than anyone that has played that position for GU to date...

He, his father and the staff will sit down after the season and go over all their options and make the right decision for Zach Collins and if that means staying another year at GU then so be it BUT if it means moving on and up to his career job, then he will be missed and cheered for...

Also, on another topic - Edwards...

At the end of the season, he was getting meaningful minutes spotting both DS and KW AND I believe he would have gotten those same minutes had he not gotten hurt in the WCC tournament. I don't know what happened this year as it sure appears he has put on 30-50 pounds or has stopped lifting or something...was he sick early in pre-season? Did he get in Few's dog house? I don't know and we will probably never know but I do know, you can't coach 7' nor soft hands nor work ethic nor motivation and he is a much better player than when he came here...something happened and it is a shame, because he is all about the Zags for the last four years...I watched how NWG searched him out and wanted to look him square in his eyes and congratulate him for his efforts during mop up time...It is something that has changed...

Oh, if Edwards decides to transfer, I'd love to see him play for LMU, Pepperdine or Pacific next year as he could help those squads win some important games and help with the Conference RPI...IMO

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-10-2017, 04:52 PM
Great post BogoZags!

RenoZag
02-10-2017, 05:01 PM
Oh, if Edwards decides to transfer, I'd love to see him play for LMU, Pepperdine or Pacific next year as he could help those squads win some important games and help with the Conference RPI...IMO

So he can get his butt handed to him by Zags in two or three games that count instead of 6 months of practice ?? What an incentive. . .If he had all of the talent people give him credit for, he would be playing.

Bogozags
02-10-2017, 05:38 PM
So he can get his butt handed to him by Zags in two or three games that count instead of 6 months of practice ?? What an incentive. . .If he had all of the talent people give him credit for, he would be playing.

Reno, he has developed his skills, he has the ability to use both of his hands, can pass and rebounds and IMO he is a better post player than any of the current post players on LMU, SCU, PU, UP or UOP and sometimes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence...

RenoZag
02-10-2017, 06:01 PM
Reno, he has developed his skills, he has the ability to use both of his hands, can pass and rebounds and IMO he is a better post player than any of the current post players on LMU, SCU, PU, UP or UOP and sometimes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence...

Fair enough, Bo.

mzimmer
02-10-2017, 08:18 PM
Well, ok.... Bogo just put out the most sensible and articulate post that I've seen while I've been on this board - which by all rights hasn't been long. There was no Arm-Chair NBA GM garbage or speculation based on a perceived knowledge of what really goes on. Well done Bogo.
If Collins goes, it's up to him and his family. Done. Next man up when you are a BIG BOY in the NCAA. Tillie is NOT a Big Guy. Not sure who Larson is. I see him listed on the roster but doesn't play. Hurt?

gonzagafan62
02-10-2017, 08:22 PM
Well, ok.... Bogo just put out the most sensible and articulate post that I've seen while I've been on this board - which by all rights hasn't been long. There was no Arm-Chair NBA GM garbage or speculation based on a perceived knowledge of what really goes on. Well done Bogo.
If Collins goes, it's up to him and his family. Done. Next man up when you are a BIG BOY in the NCAA. Tillie is NOT a Big Guy. Not sure who Larson is. I see him listed on the roster but doesn't play. Hurt?

Yes he Has a knee injury and has been out all year

mzimmer
02-10-2017, 08:28 PM
How bad is the injury? Scope?, ACL, tendinitis? What's going on. Hope it's not an ACL.

gonzagafan62
02-10-2017, 08:30 PM
How bad is the injury? Scope?, ACL, tendinitis? What's going on. Hope it's not an ACL.

Coulda swore it was an ACL injury but don't see anything confirming that.

MDABE80
02-10-2017, 08:44 PM
I would like Collins to stay another year regardless if we reach the FF...I also believed that Austin Daye should have stayed one more year but he got greedy and wanted the money and he is set up for life but he could have benefited from one more year of playing...

Ok, that being said, coaching at the NBA level will be far better than he can get in college, because they will teach him NBA basketball as a stretch-4 or 5. If he continues playing at or above his current level, then he will move up the draft boards...

Coach Few had confidence in his ability to adjust on defence, when he was put back in with 6 and change left in the first half WITH his two fouls...I will venture to say that Zach Collins has more up side as a GU post player than anyone that has played that position for GU to date...

He, his father and the staff will sit down after the season and go over all their options and make the right decision for Zach Collins and if that means staying another year at GU then so be it BUT if it means moving on and up to his career job, then he will be missed and cheered for...

Also, on another topic - Edwards...

At the end of the season, he was getting meaningful minutes spotting both DS and KW AND I believe he would have gotten those same minutes had he not gotten hurt in the WCC tournament. I don't know what happened this year as it sure appears he has put on 30-50 pounds or has stopped lifting or something...was he sick early in pre-season? Did he get in Few's dog house? I don't know and we will probably never know but I do know, you can't coach 7' nor soft hands nor work ethic nor motivation and he is a much better player than when he came here...something happened and it is a shame, because he is all about the Zags for the last four years...I watched how NWG searched him out and wanted to look him square in his eyes and congratulate him for his efforts during mop up time...It is something that has changed...

Oh, if Edwards decides to transfer, I'd love to see him play for LMU, Pepperdine or Pacific next year as he could help those squads win some important games and help with the Conference RPI...IMO

Very thoughtful post Bogo. I'm thinking Collins situation will be decided at another level. Edwards should have been cleaning up by now. Not sure what the future holds but the past is the past. I still believe he's got sufficient talent to contribute to GU's future. Knowing him just a bit, it's hard to believe he could be in anyone's doghouse.

zagsfanforlife
02-10-2017, 10:23 PM
Jeez, maybe it's just an Arizona thing, but these guys all had eligibility left and were 2nd rounders:

Gilbert Arenas '99
Michael Wright '01
Marcus Williams '07
Chase Budinger '09
Grant Jerrett '13
Nick Johnson '14

So much for the theory that nobody leaves early for the 2nd round.

Thanks for providing me with 6 examples in 18 years... knucklehead. I'm
Sure wright, johnson and jerrett are really loving that decision

ZagaZags
02-10-2017, 10:44 PM
Starters next season will be,

NWG
Perkins
Melson
Williams
Collins (Spy will need to change name for a year)

End of story.

zagsfanforlife
02-10-2017, 10:47 PM
Starters next season will be,

NWG
Perkins
Melson
Williams
Collins (Spy will need to change name for a year)

End of story.

Agreed. I'll wager anyone that NWG is back

seacatfan
02-10-2017, 11:21 PM
Thanks for providing me with 6 examples in 18 years... knucklehead. I'm
Sure wright, johnson and jerrett are really loving that decision

That's just from 1 school. You don't think it's happened w/ players from any other schools? Somebody mentioned Thomas from UW. Most of the guys I mentioned washed out of the League fairly quickly. Do you really think another year of college would've made much difference? Johnson for one didn't get taller and probably wouldn't have turned into a true PG, so nothing would've changed. TJ McConnell was still there running the point.


Here's some second rounders that still had eligibility left that did okay in the NBA:

Michael Redd, Ohio St.
Carlos Boozer, Duke
DeAndre Jordan, Texas A&M
Mo Williams, Alabama
Patrick Beverly, Arkansas
Lance Stephenson, Cincinnati
Trevor Ariza, UCLA
Hassan Whiteside, Marshall
Paul Millsap, Louisiana Tech

Just from last year alone look at all the early entrants that went 2nd round:

Deyonta Davis
Cheick Diallo
Tyler Ullis
Diamond Stone
Stephen Zimmerman (Collins' high school teammate coincidentally)
Isaiah Whitehead
Ben Bentil
Kay Felder
Chinanu Onuaku
Patrick McCaw
Demetrius Jackson
Daniel Hamilton

Soooooo......ready to admit you're wrong yet or do you need more examples?

edited--12 in the '16 draft, 7 in '15 and 10 in '14, didn't look back any further than that. The paradigm has shifted. You're working under an outdated and now faulty assumption. Guys do in fact leave early to be 2nd rounders, in droves apparently.

zagsfanforlife
02-11-2017, 06:31 AM
That's just from 1 school. You don't think it's happened w/ players from any other schools? Somebody mentioned Thomas from UW. Most of the guys I mentioned washed out of the League fairly quickly. Do you really think another year of college would've made much difference? Johnson for one didn't get taller and probably wouldn't have turned into a true PG, so nothing would've changed. TJ McConnell was still there running the point.


Here's some second rounders that still had eligibility left that did okay in the NBA:

Michael Redd, Ohio St.
Carlos Boozer, Duke
DeAndre Jordan, Texas A&M
Mo Williams, Alabama
Patrick Beverly, Arkansas
Lance Stephenson, Cincinnati
Trevor Ariza, UCLA
Hassan Whiteside, Marshall
Paul Millsap, Louisiana Tech

Just from last year alone look at all the early entrants that went 2nd round:

Deyonta Davis
Cheick Diallo
Tyler Ullis
Diamond Stone
Stephen Zimmerman (Collins' high school teammate coincidentally)
Isaiah Whitehead
Ben Bentil
Kay Felder
Chinanu Onuaku
Patrick McCaw
Demetrius Jackson
Daniel Hamilton

Soooooo......ready to admit you're wrong yet or do you need more examples?

edited--12 in the '16 draft, 7 in '15 and 10 in '14, didn't look back any further than that. The paradigm has shifted. You're working under an outdated and now faulty assumption. Guys do in fact leave early to be 2nd rounders, in droves apparently.

I don't google my stuff. No need. And outside Felder, onuaku and mccaw, all those guys were projected to be first round pics and slipped to be a second rounder. You show me one NBA draft board or mock draft that has him in the first round. I'll wait and admit I'm wrong if so. The three I mentioned made silly decisions. NWG is smarter than that.

thespywhozaggedme
02-11-2017, 07:47 AM
Starters next season will be,

NWG
Perkins
Melson
Williams
Collins (Spy will need to change name for a year)

End of story.

Not a year; just the "season". i.e. first game of the season until the last game played in MM. I wouldn't do that to you. :p

23dpg
02-11-2017, 08:14 AM
This thread has gotten a bit testy.

Bogozags- good post but I take exception with the word "greedy". He had an opportunity and probably an assurance of getting drafted and he took it. That was Daye's choice and I have no problem with it.

As for players coming out early without a first round guarantee, also their decision not ours. NWG went to college, got his degree (a solid one at that) and now has the option to make a lot of money playing basketball in the NBA or elsewhere. Again, his decision. He has options. One of them is to play another year for the Zags.

ZagaZags
02-11-2017, 11:24 AM
Not a year; just the "season". i.e. first game of the season until the last game played in MM. I wouldn't do that to you. :p

One season it is.

thespywhozaggedme
02-11-2017, 12:30 PM
One season it is.

for the rrecord, I hope I lose the bet. Realistically, I think I'll win it.