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View Full Version : Gonzaga is no Fraud ....



Zag_Dad
02-07-2017, 11:02 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18635275/true-false-college-basketball-kentucky-rise-gonzaga-real

Nice analysis by Medcalf on the State of NCAA basketball and Gonzaga's status as a contender. He does a decent job calling out all the haters who want to criticize Gonzaga's record while ignoring how so many others have and are losing.

GO ZAGS!

ZagMan in Philly
02-07-2017, 12:37 PM
Final 4 good

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/jim-boeheim-gonzaga-will-go-final-four/

ZagsGoZags
02-07-2017, 02:42 PM
I like this Syracuse coach, and agree with his prognostication. It is like Vicky D repeatedly saying to the world during the Advo tournament "They are for real, this team is good, really good. Best team IN THE WEST." Good intentions still can camouflage assumptions which are, in themselves, put downs. Remember when an American world champion who was born and raised in the USA competed against a lesser skater, and the commentator kept calling the competitor caucasion [also from the USA] girl "The American.?" Michelle Kwan, perhaps the best ice skater ever from America was not 'The American.'
From the East Coast perspective being the 'best in the West' is a nice rhyme and is NOT Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky, Villanova, Louisville, etc. UCLA's domination of NCAA basketball under Wooden was a fluke, an exception to the rule, which keeps 'the rule' alive. Namely for a team from the West to be in the Final Four is a heck of a compliment from these guys.
If exactly this team was playing for one of Big Power conferences out East, this would not be an article. It would be 'they can take it all this year.'

just saying, part of me took his comments as a 'dis' even though that was miles from his intentions.

seacatfan
02-07-2017, 02:54 PM
I'm a big West Coast homer, but at some point you have to see that overall the western teams just haven't produced much in terms of National Titles and Final 4's since the Wooden era. I think a not insignificant part of that is that there are just so many more schools on the other half of the country. Each year once a few western powerhouses are eliminated, that's it. But in any given year if North Carolina or Duke or Kentucky or Kansas or Villanova, etc. doesn't win it all, highly likely somebody from east of the Mississippi will. All I can think of (post Wooden) are UCLA, Arizona and UNLV each w/ a Title in the 90's and several other Final 4's, Stanford w/ 1 FF and Utah w/ 1 FF (prior to joining the Pac). That's it. Maybe there was somebody else in the mid to late 70's, I don't have all the Final 4 participants from back then memorized. But any way you slice it very few FF or Championships for teams out west. Just is what it is.

Mantua
02-07-2017, 04:10 PM
Dramatic finish!

Zips 65-63

DixieZag
02-07-2017, 04:32 PM
Medcalf is good.

I think he's right. Even if we lose on Saturday, what does that mean? A loss to the 14th RPI team at their place? Means nothing.

ZagsGoZags
02-08-2017, 04:12 AM
I'm a big West Coast homer, but at some point you have to see that overall the western teams just haven't produced much in terms of National Titles and Final 4's since the Wooden era. I think a not insignificant part of that is that there are just so many more schools on the other half of the country. Each year once a few western powerhouses are eliminated, that's it. But in any given year if North Carolina or Duke or Kentucky or Kansas or Villanova, etc. doesn't win it all, highly likely somebody from east of the Mississippi will. All I can think of (post Wooden) are UCLA, Arizona and UNLV each w/ a Title in the 90's and several other Final 4's, Stanford w/ 1 FF and Utah w/ 1 FF (prior to joining the Pac). That's it. Maybe there was somebody else in the mid to late 70's, I don't have all the Final 4 participants from back then memorized. But any way you slice it very few FF or Championships for teams out west. Just is what it is.

Hi Seacat, thanks for reply. I know that what you say is realistically, and statistically accurate. Those facts stay the same whether the East Coast uses it to put down the West or not. Let's take NFL and MLB for example. There are more pro teams in East than West because of population, and statistically they end up more represented in World Series and Superbowls and their quarterfinal playoff games. But do you hear the East bias coming from sports analysts from the East? I don't, they seem to be just as content to predict SF, Colorado, LA teams as much as from any other region Based On Their Individual Merits as a Team. Without much regard to region. I see the East Coast bias in college football also, with the glory years of USC and lesser extent Huskies under Don James taken as the 'token' exceptions that almost prove the rule.

My argument is that bias distorts one's perceptions (almost by definition I suppose) wherever it is, and in the case of college basketball it is distorting the ability of sports analysts who ought to be able to surmount their bias to judge teams on individual merits without regard to regional biases. I would like to say that if the zags play in the National Championship game, win or lose, the East Coast bias will diminish, but it won't. Zags will be brought in as a fluke exception to the rule. The error in judgment caused by the bias will not be viewed for what it is, an underestimation of zag power this year. The bias will be kept alive by pointing to the facts you present in your post.

Men commit murder more often than women, that's a fact. This statistical generalization should not be used to blind detectives to evidence that points more and more to a woman suspect. Best detectives use stats for info, but should not be used for pre-judging bias, because it will distort accurate perception of information. I don't know if that is a good example or not, but it illustrates the point I am trying to make.

If BB analysts all around the USA were judging zags this year on individual facts of top teams all around the country, there would be more talk about GU in the National Championship this year, but most seem to see getting to the Final Four as the proper, or realistic goal for our team this year. I disagree with that. I think the facts point to us as a realistic contender for the title this year.

TexasZagFan
02-08-2017, 04:54 AM
If BB analysts all around the USA were judging zags this year on individual facts of top teams all around the country, there would be more talk about GU in the National Championship this year, but most seem to see getting to the Final Four as the proper, or realistic goal for our team this year. I disagree with that. I think the facts point to us as a realistic contender for the title this year.

Down here in North Texas, the only sports discussion revolves around pro sports. SMU, newly arrived to the top 25, might as well be located in Texarkana...same for TCU and UT-Arlington. The main topic of discussion this morning was the resigning of Mike Napoli by the Rangers.

I made the mistake of calling in to a local station this morning. All 3 "hosts", to include a local sportswriter, chimed in with, "whaddaya want? You're ranked #1, get back to us when you're in the Final Four."

I look forward to that chance.

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 10:09 AM
I definitely get riled up about East Coast bias, I'm not denying it's existence. Maybe I'm just resigned to it at this point. As far as the Zags, reaching the Final 4 is a great goal at this point. Once you make it that far, you can win another game or two, but first you have to make it to the last weekend of the season.

ZagsGoZags
02-08-2017, 12:31 PM
agree,
after the heartache of being beat by Montana, and Davidson, and Wichita State (though understandable, I still don't think we were at our best in that game) and UCLA and BYU with Jimmy Federer, our time has come.
This year it seems we have momentum, chemistry, talent, expert coaching, steady intensity esp. on defense, and karma.
We have to worry about a team getting hot, like Wichita State did, but this year I would not actually be surprised if we are the team that gets hot. How often have we seen our zags, or any teams, stay so focused on defense even when we are ahead by 20?
I am sticking my neck out and saying we are in the National Championship game. These guys seem to have their own motor and coaches don't seem to spend much time jacking them up. We are in the elite pack this year, and if we were playing some of them I think we would doing a little better than 50-50, based, admittedly on my eye test. This is my third call since being on the board. I was one of the, if not the, first predicting KO would go to NBA at least a year before he redshirted. I was wrong about Angel Nunez, I don't think he was ever on an NBA roster, and I hope I am right on this one. Two out of three and I would be whistling Dixie. We would all be whistling. One out of three and I'll prob. keep my mouth shut for quite awhile., for my own sake, if not some others.
This year we are excited, like a groundswell, like a rising tide. Players and fans. What a fun season. We don't want it to end. Until the Nat'l Championship anyway.

229SintoZag
02-08-2017, 01:23 PM
agree,
after the heartache of being beat by Montana, and Davidson, and Wichita State (though understandable, I still don't think we were at our best in that game) and UCLA and BYU with Jimmy Federer, our time has come.
This year it seems we have momentum, chemistry, talent, expert coaching, steady intensity esp. on defense, and karma.
We have to worry about a team getting hot, like Wichita State did, but this year I would not actually be surprised if we are the team that gets hot. How often have we seen our zags, or any teams, stay so focused on defense even when we are ahead by 20?
I am sticking my neck out and saying we are in the National Championship game. These guys seem to have their own motor and coaches don't seem to spend much time jacking them up. We are in the elite pack this year, and if we were playing some of them I think we would doing a little better than 50-50, based, admittedly on my eye test. This is my third call since being on the board. I was one of the, if not the, first predicting KO would go to NBA at least a year before he redshirted. I was wrong about Angel Nunez, I don't think he was ever on an NBA roster, and I hope I am right on this one. Two out of three and I would be whistling Dixie. We would all be whistling. One out of three and I'll prob. keep my mouth shut for quite awhile., for my own sake, if not some others.
This year we are excited, like a groundswell, like a rising tide. Players and fans. What a fun season. We don't want it to end. Until the Nat'l Championship anyway.

Montana?

Zagceo
02-08-2017, 01:32 PM
Montana?

Wyoming ......don't stop him now he's on mission....

ZagMan in Philly
02-08-2017, 01:36 PM
If there is a year for the Zags to win it all, it is this year, as there are no dominate teams out there.
As a matter of fact, most sportsbooks are listing the Zags as the favorite to win it all at 7 to 1.
One dark horse i see coming on strong is the team that took us out last year's NCAA tournament.
Go Zags!!

tinfoilzag
02-08-2017, 01:50 PM
Wyoming ......don't stop him now he's on mission....

I have to correct this because it appears to be a misquote from one of two John Belushi classics.

If it's Animal House, the correct quote during the pearl harbor rant is "forget it, he's rolling"

If it's The Blues Brothers, it's "We're on a mission from God"

Never underestimate how pedantic GU board posters can be and watch yourself, you've been put on double secret probation.

seacatfan
02-08-2017, 02:07 PM
I was thinking Nevada instead of Montana, but Wyoming works too. Both are not good memories in Zagville. Coincidentally Montana beat Nevada in the Tourney a year or two after Nevada beat the Zags.

TexasZagFan
02-08-2017, 02:28 PM
I have to correct this because it appears to be a misquote from one of two John Belushi classics.

If it's Animal House, the correct quote during the pearl harbor rant is "forget it, he's rolling"

If it's The Blues Brothers, it's "We're on a mission from God"

Never underestimate how pedantic GU board posters can be and watch yourself, you've been put on double secret probation.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cb/b9/01/cbb9013f4daecab7ac66089d5774717f.jpg

amaronizag
02-08-2017, 02:34 PM
The movie "Continental Divide" had John Belushi "on a mission" chasing Blair Brown in the mountains of Wyoming.

Birddog
02-08-2017, 02:46 PM
I liked the the Jimmy Federer mention in lieu of Jimmer Fredette . $hit happens when you type too fast.

ProVeeZag
02-08-2017, 03:12 PM
I liked the the Jimmy Federer mention in lieu of Jimmer Fredette . $hit happens when you type too fast.

But that Jimmy Federer is one great tennis player. :D

Birddog
02-08-2017, 03:17 PM
But that Jimmy Federer is one great tennis player. :D

Yep, right up there with Roger Connors!