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Gonzdb8
02-01-2017, 05:26 AM
uh oh. the good news for us is that given the players above him (very strong draft) there isn't a ton of room for him to move up unless some of these guys just collapse over the next month. if he waits until next year he's a top 5 pick.

21. Zach Collins

Previous rank: N/A
Gonzaga
Freshman
Center

Collins has been moving up boards around the league thanks to a strong freshman season coming off the bench for the Zags.
He fits the definition of a model NBA 5. He's big and versatile, and he plays on the perimeter and finishes above the rim. He's also a good athlete who can guard both 4s and 5s.
He needs to add strength, but teams love his upside.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2017, 05:41 AM
uh oh. the good news for us is that given the players above him (very strong draft) there isn't a ton of room for him to move up unless some of these guys just collapse over the next month. if he waits until next year he's a top 5 pick.

21. Zach Collins

Previous rank: N/A
Gonzaga
Freshman
Center

Collins has been moving up boards around the league thanks to a strong freshman season coming off the bench for the Zags.
He fits the definition of a model NBA 5. He's big and versatile, and he plays on the perimeter and finishes above the rim. He's also a good athlete who can guard both 4s and 5s.
He needs to add strength, but teams love his upside.

The bad news (for Zag fans) is on an after-tax basis, the difference between top-5 money and top-21 money isn't that large. Just my opinion, of course.

http://www.cbafaq.com/scale2011.htm

dhozagfan08
02-01-2017, 05:44 AM
I saw another big board yestwrday(nbadrat.net I think it was) where he was number 8. I couldn't find his name, then realized I had totally skipped him because I didn't even consider that he would be that high! I was really hoping for a second year, but that's not lookin good at this point.

gonzagafan62
02-01-2017, 05:45 AM
The bad news (for Zag fans) is on an after-tax basis, the difference between top-5 money and top-21 money isn't that large. Just my opinion, of course.

http://www.cbafaq.com/scale2011.htm

Win a title and I'm fine with it :p

TexasZagFan
02-01-2017, 05:47 AM
Win a title and I'm fine with it :p

Gladly!

TexasZagFan
02-01-2017, 05:49 AM
I saw another big board yestwrday(nbadrat.net I think it was) where he was number 8. I couldn't find his name, then realized I had totally skipped him because I didn't even consider that he would be that high! I was really hoping for a second year, but that's not lookin good at this point.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder742/55314742.jpg

Zaga
02-01-2017, 05:51 AM
Win a title and I'm fine with it :p

Me three!

raise the zag
02-01-2017, 05:53 AM
Hope the Coaches are aware…have a feeling they aren't this go around.

They had a sense Austin Daye was going, Sabonis last year by January, and Ammo too…

This time feels different. I don't think the staff has even given this a thought -- he's coming off the bench and could end up a lottery pick.

Given how busy they are developing him and other young guys this season, I just hope we are left in the dark from a recruiting standpoint.

dhozagfan08
02-01-2017, 05:57 AM
Win a title and I'm fine with it :p

+5!

GoZags
02-01-2017, 06:06 AM
Hope the Coaches are aware…have a feeling they aren't this go around.

They had a sense Austin Daye was going, Sabonis last year by January, and Ammo too…

This time feels different. I don't think the staff has even given this a thought -- he's coming off the bench and could end up a lottery pick.

Given how busy they are developing him and other young guys this season, I just hope we are left in the dark from a recruiting standpoint.

The portion I have bolded is incorrect. You have nothing to worry about vis a vis Coach Few and his assistants being "unaware" of the "one and done" possibility ....

sharpzag
02-01-2017, 06:08 AM
Collins going pro is not "bad news" if you are a Zags fan. It will be great if he plays for GU next year, but this is a new era for GU. Having our first McDs AA/One and Done will only help us get more of those type of players. Also, in all of his interviews, Collins has given a lot of credit to the GU staff for his development. If he can be a lottery pick next year that is great! Stop rooting against it. GU is actually creating an ideal environment for a one and done type of player. Come to GU for 1 year, develop and win almost every game, learn how to play in a system, play against veteran players, guaranteed you play in the tournament, and then off to the NBA. How many coaches at this point rank higher than Few and the GU staff in terms of development? I wouldn't be surprised to see GU start to get at least one and done type every year starting next year.

raise the zag
02-01-2017, 06:23 AM
Collins going pro is not "bad news" if you are a Zags fan. It will be great if he plays for GU next year, but this is a new era for GU. Having our first McDs AA/One and Done will only help us get more of those type of players. Also, in all of his interviews, Collins has given a lot of credit to the GU staff for his development. If he can be a lottery pick next year that is great! Stop rooting against it. GU is actually creating an ideal environment for a one and done type of player. Come to GU for 1 year, develop and win almost every game, learn how to play in a system, play against veteran players, guaranteed you play in the tournament, and then off to the NBA. How many coaches at this point rank higher than Few and the GU staff in terms of development? I wouldn't be surprised to see GU start to get at least one and done type every year starting next year.

Excellent point and definitely not rooting against, rather hope we are at least somewhat prepared. I'm sure we have a plan, yet doubt we gave any potential 2017 recruits a 'one and done' mention about a current Center when planning next season's lineup.

As you mentioned, it goes a long way.

Media's harsh skepticism toward success in March doesn't help matters much and really off-base. I even hear this from my lay man co-workers who know nothing about sports, let alone college hoops.

All eyes will be on this team this off-season, esp the recruits.

Right now, other Top-50 guys might be thinking they'll be forced to come off the bench, but in reality, even bench guys at Gonzaga are 1st Round picks.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2017, 06:34 AM
Excellent point and definitely not rooting against, rather hope we are at least somewhat prepared. I'm sure we have a plan, yet doubt we gave any potential 2017 recruits a 'one and done' mention about a current Center when planning next season's lineup.

As you mentioned, it goes a long way.

Media's harsh skepticism toward success in March doesn't help matters much and really off-base. I even hear this from my lay man co-workers who know nothing about sports, let alone college hoops.

All eyes will be on this team this off-season, esp the recruits.

Right now, other Top-50 guys might be thinking they'll be forced to come off the bench, but in reality, even bench guys at Gonzaga are 1st Round picks.

We've got two blue chippers redshirting this year: Norvell and Hansen. Is Hansen as good as Zach? Maybe, maybe not. I'll worry about that down the road. IMO, our "bench guys" are 9-13, including Rui. The minutes for 1-8 are widely distributed...I hardly think of Zach, Killian, and Silas as "bench guys." That's what sets us apart from the competition, our bench strength this year. We'll be peaking going into March.

FlyZag
02-01-2017, 07:01 AM
The bad news (for Zag fans) is on an after-tax basis, the difference between top-5 money and top-21 money isn't that large. Just my opinion, of course.

http://www.cbafaq.com/scale2011.htm

It must be that "new" math they are teaching these days.. because over the life of a 3 year contract for first round picks, the difference between being picked 5th and 21st is over $5.4m.

FIVE MILLION DOLLARS.

I don't care who you are... 5 million is A LOT of money.

So Zach and his family need to look at risk/reward of next season. Is the risk of injury (Karnowski's back, Larsen's knee) worth the reward of 5 million dollars give or take.

Either way Zach has a bright future and I personally wish him the best of luck no matter what decision he makes.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2017, 07:04 AM
It must be that "new" math they are teaching these days.. because over the life of a 3 year contract for first round picks, the difference between being picked 5th and 21st is over $5.4m.

FIVE MILLION DOLLARS.

I don't care who you are... 5 million is A LOT of money.

So Zach and his family need to look at risk/reward of next season. Is the risk of injury (Karnowski's back, Larsen's knee) worth the reward of 5 million dollars give or take.

Either way Zach has a bright future and I personally wish him the best of luck no matter what decision he makes.

With about half going to state and federal tax, that $5 million diminishes to $2.5 to $3 million. Sure that's a lot of money, and he'd be one year closer to the big money, whether he's top-10 or just another first rounder.

That's not new math...that's "real life" math. When it comes to one's paycheck, it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. That's why I'm happy to live in a state like Texas, with no state income tax (Washington, too). When you're an NBA player, most states that have an income tax "wet their beaks", based on the number of games played in that locale.

Ezag
02-01-2017, 07:24 AM
The Key is "upside", the #1 quality that gets you moved up the draft

CDC84
02-01-2017, 07:26 AM
Chad is okay, but draftexpress.com is the most reliable site that there is. They have Collins at #14 in 2018:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/

I'm still a bit surprised that Nigel isn't showing up as a mid-2nd round pick somewhere in 2018. He doesn't possess breathtaking athleticism, but he has good height for his position, and he has improved in nearly every facet of his game this season. I would imagine he might sneak on to a list if GU goes on a deep run.

Zagceo
02-01-2017, 07:30 AM
With about half going to state and federal tax, that $5 million diminishes to $2.5 to $3 million. Sure that's a lot of money, and he'd be one year closer to the big money, whether he's top-10 or just another first rounder.

That's not new math...that's "real life" math. When it comes to one's paycheck, it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. That's why I'm happy to live in a state like Texas, with no state income tax (Washington, too). When you're an NBA player, most states that have an income tax "wet their beaks", based on the number of games played in that locale.

You can thank Cali for starting the Jock Tax (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax)

Zag_Dad
02-01-2017, 07:35 AM
We've got two blue chippers redshirting this year: Norvell and Hansen. Is Hansen as good as Zach? Maybe, maybe not. I'll worry about that down the road. IMO, our "bench guys" are 9-13, including Rui. The minutes for 1-8 are widely distributed...I hardly think of Zach, Killian, and Silas as "bench guys." That's what sets us apart from the competition, our bench strength this year. We'll be peaking going into March.

"Hansen"? Did you mean Larsen, as in Jacob Larsen?

TexasZagFan
02-01-2017, 07:41 AM
"Hansen"? Did you mean Larsen, as in Jacob Larsen?

Thanks for the correction.

Zag_Dad
02-01-2017, 07:54 AM
Thanks for the correction.

I figured that's what you meant but had me wondering if there was a player on the team I had overlooked and needed to learn about. :clap:

GO ZAGS

zagdontzig
02-01-2017, 08:21 AM
Collins going this year would be a good thing for the program. It would be our first McDonald's All American one-and-done, and that has vast implications for recruiting. We're trying on big-boy pants. In fact, I think Sabonis' early exist had a lot to do with Collins coming, along with Olynyk's development.

That said, I don't think it will happen, and I think Collins stays a year.

Goshzagit
02-01-2017, 08:27 AM
Chad is okay, but draftexpress.com is the most reliable site that there is. They have Collins at #14 in 2018:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/

I'm still a bit surprised that Nigel isn't showing up as a mid-2nd round pick somewhere in 2018. He doesn't possess breathtaking athleticism, but he has good height for his position, and he has improved in nearly every facet of his game this season. I would imagine he might sneak on to a list if GU goes on a deep run.

This is a good point.

Chad has 'hit' some home-runs in draft years, esp the "unknowns" or under-valued guys, yet majority of the time, his ranking are way off.

Draftexpress and Givony is much more accurate of radar, not just based on casual texts & conversations with NBA GM's, yet working side by side in the stands with NBA scouts as well, plus Coaches.

Chad Ford did nail it with Sabonis though...

basketballzag
02-01-2017, 08:28 AM
" Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
Chad is okay, but draftexpress.com is the most reliable site that there is. They have Collins at #14 in 2018:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/

I'm still a bit surprised that Nigel isn't showing up as a mid-2nd round pick somewhere in 2018."

I also see Nigel Williams-Goss heading for the NBA as well this year and he is showing up on the 2017 Draft boards right now as a potential 2nd round pick. NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard) I wouldn't be surprised if Jonathan Williams & Killian Tillie both explore the possibility as well.

thespywhozaggedme
02-01-2017, 08:33 AM
I saw another big board yestwrday(nbadrat.net I think it was) where he was number 8. I couldn't find his name, then realized I had totally skipped him because I didn't even consider that he would be that high! I was really hoping for a second year, but that's not lookin good at this point.

Not nbadraft, he's #4 for 2018 on their mock:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

jazzdelmar
02-01-2017, 08:52 AM
Not nbadraft, he's #4 for 2018 on their mock:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

Tillie is #17.....yikes...

TexasZagFan
02-01-2017, 08:59 AM
Tillie is #17.....yikes...

...and NWG in the second round to the Knicks. Grayson Allen's stock is falling fast.

Goshzagit
02-01-2017, 08:59 AM
" Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
Chad is okay, but draftexpress.com is the most reliable site that there is. They have Collins at #14 in 2018:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/

I'm still a bit surprised that Nigel isn't showing up as a mid-2nd round pick somewhere in 2018."

I also see Nigel Williams-Goss heading for the NBA as well this year and he is showing up on the 2017 Draft boards right now as a potential 2nd round pick. NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard) I wouldn't be surprised if Jonathan Williams & Killian Tillie both explore the possibility as well.

Exactly. Both will take a whiff, yet return for another year. All this changes, of course, IF we make the Final 4. Then any and all are immediate prospects, heck, including Silas, et al.

I am with you and have said since last October -- NWG has every intention of going pro after this season. Whether he's projected 2nd Round or not. It was again told directly to me during Thanksgiving break by a former player, who stays in very close contact with our program and current players.

Have NO clue on Collins. He has kept things mum, it is his Father who has been more public with aspirations. He seems to really enjoy the College experience and said he didn't care how long it takes to get where he wants to go -- this year or 2 years from now.

The NBA will come knocking, even if Collins does not.

He is 50-50 depending on feedback.

NWG is more like 99-1, even if he is a free agent. Sounds crazy, but its what I was told.

Zags_Fanatic
02-01-2017, 09:21 AM
Collins likely to be consensus late-first rounder at end of season, probably enough for him to test the waters which is a scary proposition as I would expect him to really turn heads at combines. If he comes back next year Zags won't miss a beat.

CDC84
02-01-2017, 10:38 AM
NBADraft.net is considered within the industry to be the worst and least reliable mock site in the universe. Even Fran Fraschilla has come out and said it is a joke. Avoid it at all costs. They have projected multiple guys as lottery and mid-first round draft picks who ended up as second rounders. They have bad sources and are lazy in their analysis.

Draftexpress.com number one (by a good distance), Chad Ford number two. That's it.

sittingon50
02-01-2017, 12:34 PM
Would be curious how much coming out earlier as a later pick & going to a team that wins more might be weighed against waiting, being a lottery pick, & losing a LOT more (barring a draft day trade).

Any opinions?

Virginia Zags Fan
02-01-2017, 02:18 PM
Final Four and adios. I am just going to enjoy watching young Mr. Collins while he is still here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zag67
02-01-2017, 02:30 PM
If you look at 5 versus 23. The difference in first year would be 2.8 to 1. He would be that much better prepared for a longer time in the NBA. Also with a guarantee of 3 years, that would mean 8.7 million to 3.3 million. that to me is a super next egg and at the same time he would be prepared to be there. Working daily against players like Larsen, Edwards, and PK would build him up more to play at the next level. Yes, he has the moves but the extra muscle would help.

007Zag
02-01-2017, 02:47 PM
I guess it's arguable, but I'd assume that a player is going to stay in the league until the same age regardless of whether he comes out at 19 or 20 years old. So yeah it's a $5mm difference over the three years of your rookie deal, but you get an extra year out of your professional career to offset that, plus you get to your second contract one year earlier, which is where the real money is made anyways.

This is all predicated on the assumption that you're good enough to keep getting contracts after your rookie deal, but I think that's safe to say with Zach.

jazzdelmar
02-01-2017, 03:12 PM
The 800 pound factor: college is fun, even with the books grind. Sitting on the end of the bench in some NBA backwater is not. It's work, it's boring, it's unrewarding and your toughest competition is not the other guys but your teammates for PT. The money is great. Sabonis landed on his feet, with a decent team and playing time. That's rare. Unless you're a top 10 pick. Zach has much to consider.

RenoZag
02-05-2017, 09:09 AM
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x375/RenoZag/Collins%20Stats%2024%20games_zpsikubjigi.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/RenoZag/media/Collins%20Stats%2024%20games_zpsikubjigi.jpg.html)

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/zach-collins-1.html

I enjoy watching him this year. The hand-wringing about whether he stays or goes can wait.

DixieZag
02-05-2017, 09:26 AM
I hope he stays.

john montana
02-05-2017, 09:33 AM
I doubt he stays, which makes me sad. While I will be happy for him for sure, selfishly I just want to see him destroy the NCAA next year.

Ekrub
02-05-2017, 09:37 AM
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x375/RenoZag/Collins%20Stats%2024%20games_zpsikubjigi.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/RenoZag/media/Collins%20Stats%2024%20games_zpsikubjigi.jpg.html)

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/zach-collins-1.html

I enjoy watching him this year. The hand-wringing about whether he stays or goes can wait.

Agreed. If he goes it's good for GU. If he stays, still good for GU. Just hope he makes the right decision for himself. Hell of a player and seems to be a good kid.

Zagceo
02-05-2017, 09:42 AM
The good thing .....players can listen to offers and decide to opt out. Better for players to control location/coach/competition if they want.

We had Domas for 2 and chance that we get Zach for 1......life in the fast lane.

Worthington
02-05-2017, 10:03 AM
I truly believe that Zach will stay. Coaches can point to Sabonis' sophomore year and how much he was able to improve his draft stock by moving into the starting lineup and becoming a go to guy.

I'm actually more worried about Nigel leaving now. He isn't really showing up on mocks yet, but I think his play of late will move him into first round consideration. His stock might be at an all time high by the end of the season if we make a deep run. He has the tools that NBA teams are looking for in a back up point guard with his size, defensive ability, basketball IQ, and improved three point shooting.

MickMick
02-05-2017, 10:13 AM
Goss, Collins gone. Karno, Mathews graduate.

Zach Norvell helps the team reload.

GU is now Transfer U. Who knows who is headed their way? Will be tough to match this group though.

MDABE80
02-05-2017, 10:23 AM
Collins going this year would be a good thing for the program. It would be our first McDonald's All American one-and-done, and that has vast implications for recruiting. We're trying on big-boy pants. In fact, I think Sabonis' early exist had a lot to do with Collins coming, along with Olynyk's development.

That said, I don't think it will happen, and I think Collins stays a year.

What's better for the program is for Collins to stay with the other returnees and get us a TITLE. I think I know what you meant though.

MDABE80
02-05-2017, 10:34 AM
Thinking Nigel, Collins, Josh, Williams3.....all will stay. No 1 preseason. Deep run this year. FF next with a title.
All in all, Norvell, Larsen, Melson , Wade, Rui ( if he can settle down and harness his obvious gifts). We're going to have to make room for some better players ( hate to say it)

I do believe with this No 1 ranking and seed, if we go undefeated, we'll get some fine players who want to transfer in and some very good frosh. In my view, this program has taken a giant step up this year. It's not like the old days when we scrimped and hoped for that certain kid. We're not Duke or Kansas yet but we can play with them with less anxiety than before. 24-0 looks good at the top of the heap.

thespywhozaggedme
02-05-2017, 10:36 AM
Goss, Collins gone. Karno, Mathews graduate.

Zach Norvell helps the team reload.

GU is now Transfer U. Who knows who is headed their way? Will be tough to match this group though.

I agree with you. I'm curious to see who we bring in as a transfer and if any of the unsigned five star guys give us a look.

Virginia Zags Fan
02-05-2017, 11:44 AM
Agree 100%. Hoping a FF to launch them as I believe they are as good as gone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TexasZagFan
02-05-2017, 12:06 PM
I agree with you. I'm curious to see who we bring in as a transfer and if any of the unsigned five star guys give us a look.

I would think the Zags will have their pick of graduate transfers...

thespywhozaggedme
02-05-2017, 02:03 PM
I would think the Zags will have their pick of graduate transfers...

Any speculation as to whom?

maynard g krebs
02-05-2017, 02:25 PM
Even if NWG goes, I think the Zags are loaded on the perimeter next year with Perkins, Melson, Norvell, Kispert, Wade. Haven't really seen Wade, but I'm totally confident that Norvell and Kispert will come in as ready to play as guys like Bouldin, Gray, Pangos, Bell, Morrison etc. I think Rui makes a quantum leap in the off season as well; they say his spot is the 3 but he might be better as a 4; hard to say yet.

If a grad transfer comes in, it seems like would be a big if Collins goes.

TexasZagFan
02-05-2017, 02:28 PM
Any speculation as to whom?

Not really, just thinking out loud. Who wouldn't want to come here from a power 5 team spinning its wheels?

WallaWallaZag
02-05-2017, 08:54 PM
thing about graduate transfers is that the good ones are almost always guards...i'm not sure there's been an impact big who has gone through the grad transfer process...anyone? would think the jc ranks might have better options.

if zc does bolt, larsen better be ready to play and tillie would be well-served to put on 15-20 pounds.

maynard g krebs
02-05-2017, 10:28 PM
thing about graduate transfers is that the good ones are almost always guards...i'm not sure there's been an impact big who has gone through the grad transfer process...anyone? would think the jc ranks might have better options.

if zc does bolt, larsen better be ready to play and tillie would be well-served to put on 15-20 pounds.

Mike Moser at Oregon a few years ago. There was another guy that year that was considering the Zags; 6'8 pf who I think went to SDSU who averaged like 17 and 10 at Tulane. (Thomas?- don't remember hisname for sure.)

northsidezagfan
02-05-2017, 10:52 PM
Mike Moser at Oregon a few years ago. There was another guy that year that was considering the Zags; 6'8 pf who I think went to SDSU who averaged like 17 and 10 at Tulane. (Thomas?- don't remember hisname for sure.)

Josh Davis?

maynard g krebs
02-05-2017, 11:00 PM
Josh Davis?

Sounds right.

TexasZag
02-06-2017, 04:49 AM
With about half going to state and federal tax, that $5 million diminishes to $2.5 to $3 million. Sure that's a lot of money, and he'd be one year closer to the big money, whether he's top-10 or just another first rounder.

That's not new math...that's "real life" math. When it comes to one's paycheck, it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. That's why I'm happy to live in a state like Texas, with no state income tax (Washington, too). When you're an NBA player, most states that have an income tax "wet their beaks", based on the number of games played in that locale.

Except that in Texas we have some of the highest property tax rates in the country, along with a high sales tax to fill the gap left by no state income tax. Governments (feds, state, and local) get what they need, one way or the other. And a system that survives largely off of property taxes disproportionately burdens different segments of society. A state income tax in lieu of higher tax rates would more evenly distribute the burden of funding the state and local governments. Just my thoughts...

Be that as it may, lower contract values are likely to persist for years, until a player can develop a resume that would justify a max offer (lost wages could accumulate rather quickly over time). And on a personal note, an additional 2+ million $$ in my bank account right now would be enough of a difference maker to allow me to retire. As it is, that isn't happening anytime in the near future.

TexasZagFan
02-06-2017, 05:20 AM
Except that in Texas we have some of the highest property tax rates in the country, along with a high sales tax to fill the gap left by no state income tax. Governments (feds, state, and local) get what they need, one way or the other. And a system that survives largely off of property taxes disproportionately burdens different segments of society. A state income tax in lieu of higher tax rates would more evenly distribute the burden of funding the state and local governments. Just my thoughts...

Be that as it may, lower contract values are likely to persist for years, until a player can develop a resume that would justify a max offer (lost wages could accumulate rather quickly over time). And on a personal note, an additional 2+ million $$ in my bank account right now would be enough of a difference maker to allow me to retire. As it is, that isn't happening anytime in the near future.

No doubt property tax rates are high in Texas. State income tax will never fly in Texas, we've seen how rates continue to creep upwards in other states. At least with property taxes, you can protest your home's valuation if you think it's overstated.

In the interim, keep working on your jump shot! ;)

Birddog
02-06-2017, 05:43 AM
IMO this is a must read. Written by a veteran journeyman from the NBA. it was penned a little over a year ago so it is not too out of date. Some real "food for thought" here.
http://nazrmohammed.sportsblog.com/posts/9330156/my-one-regret.html


That said, I don't believe it makes sense to leave school when you have the chance to play heavy minutes in an environment where you're the main man. Playing is the only way to improve your game. The more you play, the better you get. The more polished you are when you reach the NBA, the more of a chance you’ll have to play right away. I'm not against early entry into the draft. I'm just against leaving a great college environment where you can flourish just to be drafted in the second round. There's nothing wrong with being a second-round pick. I was one pick away from being one and there are tons of second-rounders who have had amazing careers. I just think their road can be a little harder.

Zagricultural
02-06-2017, 06:30 AM
IMO this is a must read. Written by a veteran journeyman from the NBA. it was penned a little over a year ago so it is not too out of date. Some real "food for thought" here.
http://nazrmohammed.sportsblog.com/posts/9330156/my-one-regret.html

My exact thoughts. Collins still needs some work. ( Foul prone, etc...) One more year as a 30+ minute guy, and he will be top ten for sure.

zagfan24
02-06-2017, 06:41 AM
IMO this is a must read. Written by a veteran journeyman from the NBA. it was penned a little over a year ago so it is not too out of date. Some real "food for thought" here.
http://nazrmohammed.sportsblog.com/posts/9330156/my-one-regret.html

Thanks for sharing. This is not a specific thought to ZC, but I think it's easy to equate "The NBA drafts on potential" to "A player should leave based on potential". The NBA can chew up and spit out players that aren't ready. Certain teams and situations are better cut out for player development, but there is certainly some benefit from being ready when a player arrives. For one, it seems to me like taking a few years to develop within the league can really limit the resume a player can build before the lucrative "second contract."

For Collins, I have no doubt he'll make a good decision for himself and it's a win-win for the Zags. If he leaves early, it's a long-term win as future high level players have a model of rapid success to look at. If he stays, it's' a short-term win as next year's squad will be loaded and Zach has the potential to be an All-American.

TheGonzagaFactor
02-06-2017, 07:05 AM
With about half going to state and federal tax, that $5 million diminishes to $2.5 to $3 million. Sure that's a lot of money, and he'd be one year closer to the big money, whether he's top-10 or just another first rounder.

That's not new math...that's "real life" math. When it comes to one's paycheck, it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. That's why I'm happy to live in a state like Texas, with no state income tax (Washington, too). When you're an NBA player, most states that have an income tax "wet their beaks", based on the number of games played in that locale.

you could have just said he was right and you were wrong.

TexasZagFan
02-06-2017, 07:20 AM
you could have just said he was right and you were wrong.

What fun is there in that? :lmao:

There are financial reasons for staying one more year, and for entering the draft this year. They are all valid and correct, in considering the many factors that will go into that decision. If Zach's been told he's a lock for a 1st round pick this year, with a 3 year guaranteed contract, then he's gone...and best wishes to him.

I will only be "proven wrong" if Zach is told he's a first rounder, yet comes back for another year in Zagland. Truth be told, nothing would make me (and my grandson) happier. Zach's his favorite Zag this year.

If you're that convinced I'm wrong, run a poll. /sarc

CDC84
02-06-2017, 08:37 AM
I have always said this although many disagree....unless you are in the lottery or near a lottery pick, you should go into the NBA draft when you are best able, developmentally, to get a second contract. Case example: Ronny Turiaf. Some people thought he was foolish to come back to Gonzaga after his junior year (he might've been picked in the mid-20's with a guaranteed deal), but I think there is a decent chance he might not have received a second contract if he hadn't returned to GU one more season. When he decided to come back, he made some big improvements in his game. He developed a reliable 15 foot jump shot (and just bettered his perimeter game overall), his rebounding skills improved, etc. He was simply a better player his senior year. So when he got drafted by the Lakers in the 2nd round, he was considered a bargain. Fortunately his heart issue was successfully treated, but the point is that the work he put in between his junior and senior seasons really assured that he would get that second contract, which is when the real money and better stability come in. During his peak years, despite just being a role player, Ronny was making really good money.

I have heard of at least one case (and I won't name his name) of a guy who left college prematurely because he thought it was a great idea to get picked in the mid-20's even though developmentally he really needed another season in college. As soon as his first contract was up, he was out of the league. By the time he took care of his poor Mom and Dad, his sisters and brothers and himself, the money was gone, and he had to go get a regular job. If this guy had just stayed another year in college and enhanced his chances of getting that second contract, he might not be working an office job. Getting picked in the 1st round doesn't automatically set you up for life. If you feel that you might not be good enough to get a second contract, you need to stay in school and keep developing. Unfortunately, too many kids get terrible advice from people who are looking after their own self interest.

Whatever comes of Zach, I just hope he isn't another one of those kids who gets drafted and is gone. He has a great chance to make it big in the NBA if he puts in the work and listens to the right people.

cggonzaga
02-07-2017, 07:06 AM
Has Collins going 21st to the Wizards.

jazzdelmar
02-07-2017, 07:10 AM
Sounds about right....More games (and more minutes) like recently and he will be in the teens.....where he will likely float....

23dpg
02-10-2017, 09:05 AM
The Ringer has him at 14.

If Collins stays in school for his sophomore season and waits for his turn after Karnowski graduates, he should be a Wooden Award candidate. If he goes pro without ever being a starter, though, he would be a fascinating gamble for a team willing to take a chance on his skill, athleticism, and production in limited minutes.

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-4-0-8425958b85fd#.r4odsbny8