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View Full Version : Gonzaga vs. SCU post game thoughts



bballbeachbum
02-04-2017, 08:45 PM
hey Reborn, I know this is your thread...that I like post on :)
I got to hit the hay, so I'm starting it tonight since I don't see your thread my man

after about 9 minutes, Zags were losing 16-12. Zags responded with a blow out. After a timeout, Few went to Shem three straight times in the paint, set the tone going forward, JP had a drive and finish at the rim for the and 1 after that timeout too, and the Zags never looked back.

they looked weird without NWG out there at first, not so unexpected, looked to me like all were trying to fill the void by themselves at first. then something clicked, I'm looking at that timeout, maybe it's something else, but they settled and played awesome awesome basketball the rest of the way, fun basketball to watch.

Collins owned Endumanya tonight, a guy who had bothered him last time they saw each other. Mathews got to the rim a couple of times, to the line 4-4, and got loose. Alberts showed well. Tillie was very active and productive, looking great from the ankle tweak. Josh played a great game with the most microscope on him.

great response from the team to the challenge of NWG being out after initially stumbling out of the block tonight a bit

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-05-2017, 04:58 AM
Wow, I love this team! Perkins takes a lot of heat on this board, which I too have dished out at times, but he was fantastic tonight. His game has matured..the sloppy TO's are very rare now. I love JP, love his leadership and 3 pt shooting, and I loved hearing he was enthusiastic about the coaches bringing in NWG (and that he and NWG are close). I hadn't heard that detail before.

Great seeing Matthews play so well; also glad to see Tillie more assertive. Zags stayed kept up their defensive intensity throughout and, most impressively imho, continued running the offense and sharing the ball even after the game was in hand. Pretty clear all the talk about great chemistry and how these guys all genuinely like each other is true. Love these Zags!!

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-05-2017, 06:03 AM
I thought that Alberts played some of the best defense of his career. He held his ground against Brownridge.

Zagceo
02-05-2017, 06:35 AM
Might be interesting to play Zach with Przemek and Williams and throw some zone at SMC. Gotta get Zach some more playing time......

jazzdelmar
02-05-2017, 06:40 AM
Might be interesting to play Zach with Przemek and Williams and throw some zone at SMC. Gotta get Zach some more playing time......

Ya think? Zach's expiration date is fast approaching. Yea, u might consider giving more PT to your 2d best player.

bballbeachbum
02-05-2017, 07:31 AM
Might be interesting to play Zach with Przemek and Williams and throw some zone at SMC. Gotta get Zach some more playing time......

could tell as soon as he entered he was ready to go last night imo, not that he shows up not ready to go, but he had something to prove, to himself I think; he did not play so well against Santa Clara down there but wow, did he respond in the rematch. Zach has a lot of stuff but I'm going with tough competitor as his greatest quality, the best quality of all. he really showed a lot last night

Reborn
02-05-2017, 07:35 AM
hey Reborn, I know this is your thread...that I like post on :)
I got to hit the hay, so I'm starting it tonight since I don't see your thread my man

No problem at all. I'm glad you did. I was busy last night. Thanks. This isn't my thread, it's our's. There's no me on team.

I am really impressed with this team. To be able to score 90 points without NWG playing is really awesome. It was just so cool to see everyone step up and give a little bit more with NWG out. In many ways this game is one of my favorite games so far. This game shows just how good the Zags are. There IS so much talent on this team. Sorry Coach FEW. This game shows just how deserving the Zags are to be the #1 team in America.

I really liked the announcers last night, and especially the one who shared so many interesting stories that he told about the Zags. I felt he was really prepared for the game. I hope we get more of him. Who is this wonderful announcer?

Here are some stats. Zags had 5 guys scoring in double figures: Mathews with 16, Perkins with 15, Collins with 14, Karnowski with 12 and Tillie with 10. They shot 60% for the game, and 50% from behind the arch. They out-rebounded SC 38 to 18, and only had ten turnovers and 6 steals. The rebounded was awesome. It really was. I also thought that Collins and Tillie played great. I really hope Collins comes back for one more year.

i thought that the student body really showed up last night. It was just so obvious of how proud they are of their team, and how much they love them. There was some great live shots of the students showing their love.


I GOT MY ANSWER Malcom Huckaby
Go Zags!!!

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-05-2017, 07:38 AM
Ya think? Zach's expiration date is fast approaching. Yea, u might consider giving more PT to your 2d best player.

Team is undefeated and improving, morale is high...no, I wouldn't alter the current rotation and pattern of minutes played.

ZC clearly has next level skills and just as clearly needs another year of strength training. There are WCC post players he struggles to match up against in terms of strength (establishing post position, preventing opponent from getting deep post position, holding onto the ball in traffic), and this draft is very deep. Another year of development and being the starting center earning 25-30mpg next season is best case scenario for ZC and the Zags imho.

mzimmer
02-05-2017, 08:13 AM
Here we go again.

Not sure who Jazz is, but he seems to bring a little too much honesty to the conversation. Looked back at his posts, and while not always popular, his comments seem to come from a place of experience. My guess is that he's either coached or had a kid that's been through this stuff before. Maybe both.

I read post after post about not wanting to be in the Mid Major conversation, that the Zags HAVE arrived. Yet it seems as if the idea of a one and done goes completely against the Zag grain. I hope everybody realizes that with very few exceptions almost no drafted basketball player is ready, strong enough, or looked at to FILL a hole. They are investments. With all due respect guys and girls, this is what being a big dog is like. Would it be great for Collins to stay? Yes it would. Would he be stronger in a year? Yes he would. Is he weak now? Not even close. I think you all are used to seeing Karnowski so much that you have lost sight of what an NBA center or forward looks like. Collins, will gain strength as he gets older. But his frame, athleticism, his IQ - it's a pretty easy investment.

Strength, a lot of people thought Mika from BYU would throttle Collins. Collins pretty much locked him up. Did so with limited offenseibe touches which means he's got a workman's attitude. Said Markinan (spelling?) from Arizona would push him around - easily be argued that Collins out played him in his limited minutes.

Hope he comes back but you guys have to see where this is going.

Goss, on the other hand, I think he should be on some teams radar for sure. He will not be back either. To try and replicate his success would be a heck of a risk.

Just my $.02

TexasZagFan
02-05-2017, 08:28 AM
Here we go again.

Not sure who Jazz is, but he seems to bring a little too much honesty to the conversation. Looked back at his posts, and while not always popular, his comments seem to come from a place of experience. My guess is that he's either coached or had a kid that's been through this stuff before. Maybe both.

I read post after post about not wanting to be in the Mid Major conversation, that the Zags HAVE arrived. Yet it seems as if the idea of a one and done goes completely against the Zag grain. I hope everybody realizes that with very few exceptions almost no drafted basketball player is ready, strong enough, or looked at to FILL a hole. They are investments. With all due respect guys and girls, this is what being a big dog is like. Would it be great for Collins to stay? Yes it would. Would he be stronger in a year? Yes he would. Is he weak now? Not even close. I think you all are used to seeing Karnowski so much that you have lost sight of what an NBA center or forward looks like. Collins, will gain strength as he gets older. But his frame, athleticism, his IQ - it's a pretty easy investment.

Strength, a lot of people thought Mika from BYU would throttle Collins. Collins pretty much locked him up. Did so with limited offenseibe touches which means he's got a workman's attitude. Said Markinan (spelling?) from Arizona would push him around - easily be argued that Collins out played him in his limited minutes.

Hope he comes back but you guys have to see where this is going.

Goss, on the other hand, I think he should be on some teams radar for sure. He will not be back either. To try and replicate his success would be a heck of a risk.

Just my $.02

We'll be fine next year, friend. Read up on Zach Norvell and Jacob Larsen. We also have a 4 star forward coming in as well as a primo point guard back from his two year mission.

For now, I'm focused on the best start to a season Gonzaga's ever had. When you're a Zag alum who graduated 40 years ago like me and GoZags, you enjoy the journey. I've never been to a game at the Kennel, my Zag games are those that are within a day's drive of Dallas. It's not often when we enjoy a win under those conditions, such as in Stillwater or Nashville.

BTW, my grandson will be in the recruiting class of 2028...lol, he showed off his dunking skills during halftime in Nashville. He's known in Gonzaga hoop circles as "Big D." :lmao:

former1dog
02-05-2017, 08:35 AM
Ultimately staying or going for any player has to be a business decision.

NWG is likely and rightly gone next year. His college game skills are complete. He's likely as good as he's going to get at this level and the scouts know it. He has his degree. There aren't a lot of good reasons to not get paid next year at some level.

Zach is a sure fire NBA guy, so his decision is more positioning of where he might get drafted. From what I've read, he could be giving up a LOT of money if he comes out this year in a stacked draft rather than next year where he could be a lottery pick.

Reborn
02-05-2017, 08:42 AM
i am sorry that I can't read your name. I DISAGREE WITH YOU. I appreciate your OPINION, and your post is well written. In my opinion, Collins will not be a first round pick, and he will want to be when he goes. IF he leaves after this season, he will not have left his imprint on Zag basketball, and I'M hoping he will want to. I disagree with Jazz's belief that he's the second best player on this team. Not this year. In fact, imo he has bot been that big of a factor in some games. And against the better teams we have played, imo, he does lack strength to score inside. IMO, both Karnowski and Williams III should start over Collins.

Regarding NWG, i just think it's too early to say.

Zagceo
02-05-2017, 09:00 AM
Przemek let the refs get into his play......bad hand didn't help but experience says adjust to the refs not fight'em.

bballbeachbum
02-05-2017, 09:40 AM
hey mzimmer, you called out a lot of people in your post! I stay out of the NBA Collins talk etc.

but on Collins, he has had to adjust to how he's been played by certain matchups, and that's a compliment. Ndumanya troubled him at the Leavey for example as already noted, and while still playing well and sharing with us all his amazing gifts, it was observable. he's had his issues with the double team too, forcing shots instead of reading and kicking, etc. and still adjusting to that but better imo

like others on this team, he keeps getting better. last night's performance was all of that, with NWG out and against a guy who had kind of bullied him around last time--you agree that's what happened at the Leavey? and his defense is stout, both quick and well positioned feet and hands with grit and determination, his tempo is high motor in there. of course his body and frame will continue to develop, wherever he plays, he just turned 19 years old! would dig seeing him be the man next year and stretch to handle all of that responsibility and leadership to go with all the rest of his awesome game...yes I'm a Zag fan, that would be awesome for me! but seriously, I see it as former1dog does and just hope he stays healthy and makes the right choice for himself and family

anyway, I'm just trying to enjoy him now because he is fun to watch grow and compete. when he makes a mistake or misses a chance, check out how he responds, one fiery dude

bballbeachbum
02-05-2017, 09:47 AM
No problem at all. I'm glad you did. I was busy last night. Thanks. This isn't my thread, it's our's. There's no me on team.

Go Zags!!!

right on Reborn, I hear you. some threads are typically started by certain posters though, which I like btw!

anyway, did you see the team dancing and singing on the bench late in the game? it was pretty sweet. agree with you, it was a team response to their leader going down, and many leaders showed up. that kind of maybe worked against them at first I thought, everyone so geeked to fill the void themself. but once they settled in, wow, explosion of teamwork and team play. coaches get a lot of credit imo too

mzimmer
02-05-2017, 10:28 AM
Beachbum, what a great post. I think I would ageee with you on almost every portion of your post. I too believe he has to learn and grow, that he continues to make strides. He is fiery and fun to watch. Mistakes are REQUIRED! That's the only way he will learn. As for calling people out, that's the only thing I disagree with.
Concerning the Jazz guy. I'm simply saying that he knows more than some/or many might think. Reading older posts, it would seem that he comes from a different background than Arm-chair GM. But! I am calling out Reborn - you have lost your mind. I say that with a friendly smile.
Collins was really good last night, he was exceptional on D vs BYU. It's in the details Reborn. He is getting better and he is ONLY 19 according to websites. That's what NBA prospects look like Reborn. Trust me! We see them all the time. Collins played with half our starting line up at the McDonalds All American games. We have Bam. Way stronger than Collins and much more athletic. No where near as skilled or as smart. I'd even say Collins is a better rebounder. Bam makes mistakes all the time. Defense is often a very sore subject for him on our boards. He's projected lottery by most.
I saw 2 Collins and Leaf match ups their senior year out here in CA. Nowhere close in the post. Collins was a MAN. Outside, Leaf was far better and more confident. Leaf is also considered a mid-round guy.
I think we just need some perspective. You guys have seen Karnowski for so long, I think you you expect Collins to be as strong. Nobody in the country can match that. The down side of that is that Karnowski rarely leads a break, rarely defends at 30ft, and never can contain a guard at 30ft. Collins does it in every game. Do you know how rare that is? He will never be Karnowski which is a good thing for his NBA future.

If you guys can find it, there is a video of Collins vs Josh Jackson floating around. The video is of Collins guarding him at 30 ft. Jackson gets past Collins and then recovers QUICK. Jackson does a few more moves trying to get by. Collins shuts the door and finishes the deal blocking him. It was put out the week of the MCDAA game. Think they were at practice. We watched everything because we had so many guys in it. Yes . That was a shot! Lol

Reborn
02-05-2017, 01:32 PM
[QUOTE=mzimmer;1282223]Concerning the Jazz guy. I'm simply saying that he knows more than some/or many might think. Reading older posts, it would seem that he comes from a different background than Arm-chair GM. But! I am calling out Reborn - you have lost your mind. I say that with a friendly smile/QUOTE]

I'm glad you are beginning to post here. Keep up the good work. I haven't been "called out" in a long time now. Thanks. It makes me feel young. I don't disagree with most of what you think about Collins. And in fact, if you read my posts about him you'll see that. I think he's going to be a pro for sure. Just not next year. I TOLD YOU WHY. So no need to do try again. He's surely the best post player coming in off the bench. Probably Tillie AND Melson too. I just think he'll be drafted higher, much higher, if he plays for us one more year. I might be wrong, but I'M SURE BOT CRAZY.

bballbeachbum
02-05-2017, 02:41 PM
Beachbum, what a great post. I think I would ageee with you on almost every portion of your post. I too believe he has to learn and grow, that he continues to make strides. He is fiery and fun to watch. Mistakes are REQUIRED! That's the only way he will learn. As for calling people out, that's the only thing I disagree with.
Concerning the Jazz guy. I'm simply saying that he knows more than some/or many might think. Reading older posts, it would seem that he comes from a different background than Arm-chair GM. But! I am calling out Reborn - you have lost your mind. I say that with a friendly smile.
Collins was really good last night, he was exceptional on D vs BYU. It's in the details Reborn. He is getting better and he is ONLY 19 according to websites. That's what NBA prospects look like Reborn. Trust me! We see them all the time. Collins played with half our starting line up at the McDonalds All American games. We have Bam. Way stronger than Collins and much more athletic. No where near as skilled or as smart. I'd even say Collins is a better rebounder. Bam makes mistakes all the time. Defense is often a very sore subject for him on our boards. He's projected lottery by most.
I saw 2 Collins and Leaf match ups their senior year out here in CA. Nowhere close in the post. Collins was a MAN. Outside, Leaf was far better and more confident. Leaf is also considered a mid-round guy.
I think we just need some perspective. You guys have seen Karnowski for so long, I think you you expect Collins to be as strong. Nobody in the country can match that. The down side of that is that Karnowski rarely leads a break, rarely defends at 30ft, and never can contain a guard at 30ft. Collins does it in every game. Do you know how rare that is? He will never be Karnowski which is a good thing for his NBA future.

If you guys can find it, there is a video of Collins vs Josh Jackson floating around. The video is of Collins guarding him at 30 ft. Jackson gets past Collins and then recovers QUICK. Jackson does a few more moves trying to get by. Collins shuts the door and finishes the deal blocking him. It was put out the week of the MCDAA game. Think they were at practice. We watched everything because we had so many guys in it. Yes . That was a shot! Lol

right on mzimmer, very thoughtful reply. you've seen more of Zach pre Zag than me for sure as I've seen none, I've seen his games as a Zag to form my opinion, and I'm just a aging old high school coach hack who loves the game trying to stay sharp by hyper following one team, the Zags, because I coach my kids soccer teams now for years and no basketball for years. Zag basketball has become my lifeline to the game of basketball really. come check out the game thread sometime

on calling anyone out, when you said you 'read post after post about not wanting to be in the mid major' and then what you said, and also about Mika and posts here, that's what I was referring to, whatever that is called...and it's cool! I thought you showed some courage without being a jerk

on Karno's size, I mean, yes, he's huge, but 'we guys' (at least me) have seen enough of the game to not be bamboozled on Collins' actual size/strength/whatever because Karno's next to him. I think that's true of most here actually.

on jazz, whom I know only through this forum over all these years now but have gotten to know better at different times over the years, use the force to follow your feelings and seek out the answers to your questions ;)
sorry for the riddle