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View Full Version : Where was that BYU all year?!



dhozagfan08
02-03-2017, 05:30 AM
Was it just me, or did that BYU team seem like a top team? I kept thinking about how tough that defense was, and yet their defense is usually regarded as being really bad. It's good that we do get the tests like this in conference (despite what the rest of of the country thinks). I think this every year about WCC teams, but just imagine if they played this way all year long. We would be right their behind the power conferences.

zag67
02-03-2017, 06:07 AM
Good point. They were all working hard to deny good shots or passes. They also refused to allow any layins that were not challenged. I also do not think they would have that many losses if they worked that hard. Also I think that their zone defense was super and they should look into using it more.

TheGonzagaFactor
02-03-2017, 07:04 AM
I think they aren't that good but played extremely hard at home to be behind 10-16 points for most of the game. They look like a team that could lose at home to a top team by 10 or lose at home to a TRASH team like UVU by 13. Or lose at trash San Diego.... Or lose at Santa Clara.

They gave it their all, got some calls, and lost at home by 10. I don't see what's so great about that.

Goshzagit
02-03-2017, 07:07 AM
What shocked me the most was when they got within 8...

The crowd, their bench, the team on the floor acted as if they won the Nat'l Championship right then and there.

Smiles, hugs, elation, almost acceptance? Seemed the moral victory of being within single-digits was enough for them.

I knew at that moment we'd win the game. Amazing with this team, this season. To be within 8 pts and the opponents are already celebrating, not just excited, rather celebrating.

Interesting.

scott257
02-03-2017, 07:25 AM
I never understand it and have wondered for years how it is that a team can be so mediocre against other mediocre opponents then play out of their heads when they get pumped up for a better team or a rival. It isn't the coach. It could be the atmosphere from all of the fans they don't see when playing lesser opponents. I know that even as good as the Zags are, they play down at the kennel when the students aren't there.

I think better coaches might find ways to capitalize on that excitement but would be curious about how they do it, and how they might get the team up for that level of effort when they are on the road. I don't think of Mark Few as a rah rah type coach, but my guess is he will have the team motivated for St. Mary's next week.

soccerdud
02-03-2017, 08:12 AM
they are going to be almost scary good in two years.

Gonzdb8
02-03-2017, 08:19 AM
they are going to be almost scary good in two years.

assuming mika is around for two more years. my guess is he leaves after next season. i know they are getting some 38 year old guy who is built like a bull, but i think keeping mika around is key to their success in two years.

Hoopaholic
02-03-2017, 08:23 AM
What shocked me the most was when they got within 8...

The crowd, their bench, the team on the floor acted as if they won the Nat'l Championship right then and there.

Smiles, hugs, elation, almost acceptance? Seemed the moral victory of being within single-digits was enough for them.

I knew at that moment we'd win the game. Amazing with this team, this season. To be within 8 pts and the opponents are already celebrating, not just excited, rather celebrating.

Interesting.

I had stopped the DVR to show my loving wife this exact point and said the same thing....game over we won

Goshzagit
02-03-2017, 09:03 AM
if Mika develops a mid-range shot, and learns to keep the ball higher on post catches...he's NBA big in my mind.

I have a feeling he'll be scary strong in 2 yrs. 6'10", 255 of muscle.

Terrific hustle and motor as is...

A really solid back-up PF in the League, again, at least another yr from now.

Not a good enough shooter yet.

CDC84
02-03-2017, 09:14 AM
Zach had a beautiful block on Mika in the 2nd half. In fact Collins had 3 blocks in the game. But his desire to block everything leads him into getting into foul problems. He's a young Bulldog.

Mika was held to 5-15 from the field, but had 11 boards.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 09:20 AM
Zach had a beautiful block on Mika in the 2nd half. In fact Collins had 3 blocks in the game. But his desire to block everything leads him into getting into foul problems. He's a young Bulldog.

Mika was held to 5-15 from the field, but had 11 boards.

Mainly because we missed too many shots that we normally make.

Mr Vulture
02-03-2017, 09:21 AM
What I saw in BYU was a team that's was pretty young and therefore I'd imagine that they are inconsistent from game to game. The core they have should be very good next year as they are currently Mika (RS-SO), Emery (SO), Haws (FR), and Childs (FR). I thought their half court defense was very aggressive but we just had NWG to break it down.

dhozagfan08
02-03-2017, 09:28 AM
The game was closer than the score, IMO. They played against the number one team in the country, and their record would be SIGNIFICANTLY better if they played like that every game. That's all I'm trying to say, and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

former1dog
02-03-2017, 09:31 AM
BYU's effort was equivalent to a mother lifting a car off of their child. The moment called for a super human effort, but this isn't who they really are.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 09:35 AM
The game was closer than the score, IMO. They played against the number one team in the country, and their record would be SIGNIFICANTLY better if they played like that every game. That's all I'm trying to say, and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

That's what we're facing the rest of the season, and more pressure will come as the streak continues. I like our chances better at SMC: we spanked them pretty good in Spokane, and this is their best opportunity for a signature win. I think our shooting will be better in the cozy confines of McKeon: better sight lines, and there won't be 5000 fans behind each bucket. IMO, the pressure on SMC will be equal to the pressure on the Zags, just different kinds of pressure.

As I said earlier, there is no way 3000 fans can produce the decibels generated in Provo last night. Sure, it will be loud, I just don't think it will be as intimidating. No disrespect to SMC, either.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 09:35 AM
BYU's effort was equivalent to a mother lifting a car off of their child. The moment called for a super human effort, but this isn't who they really are.

I hope they bring the same effort and intensity to their next game with SMC.

Hoopaholic
02-03-2017, 09:46 AM
BYU's effort was equivalent to a mother lifting a car off of their child. The moment called for a super human effort, but this isn't who they really are.

Excellent and only sustainable for short bursts none of which was enough to overcome

Kiddwell
02-03-2017, 11:40 AM
BYU has recruited a bunch of 4-star recruits over recent years. Those guys are backed up with quality 3-star guys. Then a lot of their guys go off to two-year missions, fill out, and return as buff freshmen/sophomores. BYU seems to be figuring out how to play with each other (lots of new guys to mesh together), kind of like it took the Zags till about now to figure it out last season.

Methinks these guys could be monsters next, and following years. If Rose can fire 'em up, they'll beat the Vegemite outta St. Mary's in their upcoming Marriott Center showdown. Then, wouldn't be surprized, we'll face them (and not the Vegemites) in the WCC Tourney's Championship Game. (Strong hunch.)

BYU is going to supplant St. Mary's as the most-of-the-time WCC 2nd place team. They're more a threat to bump us off the hill top than St. Mary's, methinks, if they keep recruiting 4-stars (and Rose starts coaching defense).

...two cents...

:]

former1dog
02-03-2017, 11:43 AM
BYU is going to supplant St. Mary's as the most-of-the-time WCC 2nd place team. They're more a threat to bump us off the hill top than St. Mary's, methinks, if they keep recruiting 4-stars (and Rose starts coaching defense).

...two cents...

:]

Believe it when I see it. They've had two (three?) recruiting cycles since they've joined the WCC and the current standings show BYU going in the wrong direction. Sure, they've got lots of talent but I kind of see Rose like Romar lite in terms of taking advantage of the talent he has.

gonzagafan62
02-03-2017, 11:44 AM
BYU has recruited a bunch of 4-star recruits over recent years. Those guys are backed up with quality 3-star guys. Then a lot of their guys go off to two-year missions, fill out, and return as buff freshmen/sophomores. BYU seems to be figuring out how to play with each other (lots of new guys to mesh together), kind of like it took the Zags till about now to figure it out last season.

Methinks these guys could be monsters next, and following years. If Rose can fire 'em up, they'll beat the Vegemite outta St. Mary's in their upcoming Marriott Center showdown. Then, wouldn't be surprized, we'll face them (and not the Vegemites) in the WCC Tourney's Championship Game. (Strong hunch.)

BYU is going to supplant St. Mary's as the most-of-the-time WCC 2nd place team. They're more a threat to bump us off the hill top than St. Mary's, methinks, if they keep recruiting 4-stars (and Rose starts coaching defense).

...two cents...

:]

Yup 100%

BayAreaZagFan
02-03-2017, 11:49 AM
That's what we're facing the rest of the season, and more pressure will come as the streak continues. I like our chances better at SMC: we spanked them pretty good in Spokane, and this is their best opportunity for a signature win. I think our shooting will be better in the cozy confines of McKeon: better sight lines, and there won't be 5000 fans behind each bucket. IMO, the pressure on SMC will be equal to the pressure on the Zags, just different kinds of pressure.

As I said earlier, there is no way 3000 fans can produce the decibels generated in Provo last night. Sure, it will be loud, I just don't think it will be as intimidating. No disrespect to SMC, either.

I think that's a very good point. A lot of these smaller "barns" (no disrepect intended) can get very loud. They're not only small, but they're old, and were built with little to no regard for acoustics. But there's a difference between loud and intimidating. 19,000 fans can be intimidating whether they're loud or not.

TexasZag
02-03-2017, 11:56 AM
I never understand it and have wondered for years how it is that a team can be so mediocre against other mediocre opponents then play out of their heads when they get pumped up for a better team or a rival. It isn't the coach. It could be the atmosphere from all of the fans they don't see when playing lesser opponents. I know that even as good as the Zags are, they play down at the kennel when the students aren't there.

I think better coaches might find ways to capitalize on that excitement but would be curious about how they do it, and how they might get the team up for that level of effort when they are on the road. I don't think of Mark Few as a rah rah type coach, but my guess is he will have the team motivated for St. Mary's next week.

It can be liberating when you aren't expected to win, such as would be the case when a young, unranked team plays the number 1. There's no pressure to win so it's easier to play loose and not get distracted by the scoreboard.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 12:01 PM
BYU has recruited a bunch of 4-star recruits over recent years. Those guys are backed up with quality 3-star guys. Then a lot of their guys go off to two-year missions, fill out, and return as buff freshmen/sophomores. BYU seems to be figuring out how to play with each other (lots of new guys to mesh together), kind of like it took the Zags till about now to figure it out last season.

Methinks these guys could be monsters next, and following years. If Rose can fire 'em up, they'll beat the Vegemite outta St. Mary's in their upcoming Marriott Center showdown. Then, wouldn't be surprized, we'll face them (and not the Vegemites) in the WCC Tourney's Championship Game. (Strong hunch.)

BYU is going to supplant St. Mary's as the most-of-the-time WCC 2nd place team. They're more a threat to bump us off the hill top than St. Mary's, methinks, if they keep recruiting 4-stars (and Rose starts coaching defense).

...two cents...

:]

If I read you correctly, Rose had an epiphany last night regarding the importance of defense...it will take more than one game to convince me.

Zagger
02-03-2017, 12:05 PM
I had stopped the DVR to show my loving wife this exact point and said the same thing....game over we won
Maybe it's cuz the Zags are now like having Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, etc in the house :) if you're a school like BYU you'd be pretty jacked on your team giving any of them a good game.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 12:09 PM
I think that's a very good point. A lot of these smaller "barns" (no disrepect intended) can get very loud. They're not only small, but they're old, and were built with little to no regard for acoustics. But there's a difference between loud and intimidating. 19,000 fans can be intimidating whether they're loud or not.

No disrespect to The Kennel, as I have never attended a game there. I've been to other venues, such as Iba-Gallagher (OSU), The Pit, Memphis, and UTEP, where the crowds routinely are SRO. The volume and intimidation from 12,000+ capacity arenas is a different level.

That was one impressive crowd last night. We have just four home games remaining. Kennel Club needs to finish strong.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 12:09 PM
Maybe it's cuz the Zags are now like having Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, etc in the house :) if you're a school like BYU you'd be pretty jacked on your team giving any of them a good game.

Zagger, how jacked are they going to be for the Gaels?

maynard g krebs
02-03-2017, 12:23 PM
What I saw was score management to keep the 19000 + tv audience engaged. Game was never remotely in doubt. It shouldn't be lost on anyone that GU was whistled for 8 fouls in the first half and 14 in the second. Only thing that really changed was what was being whistled imo.

SIX FOULS WERE WHISTLED ON THE ZAGS BEFORE THE FIRST TV TIMEOUT IN THE SECOND HALF. ( Excuse me for shouting, but sometimes...). Eight fouls in 20 minutes, then 6 in the next less than 5. That is triple the rate of first half foul calls, and if you think the Zags were suddenly fouling that much more, I have a bridge for sale in the everglades. By the 6th whistle at 15:04, (that's one every 49 seconds, to be precise) BYU was within 9 and the Zags were forced to stop defending normally.

That's without even mentioning some of the stuff BYU got away with.

That was a 20 point win or better in reality. Refs kept it closer than it was.

sittingon50
02-03-2017, 12:23 PM
No disrespect to The Kennel, as I have never attended a game there. I've been to other venues, such as Iba-Gallagher (OSU), The Pit, Memphis, and UTEP, where the crowds routinely are SRO. The volume and intimidation from 12,000+ capacity arenas is a different level.

That was one impressive crowd last night. We have just four home games remaining. Kennel Club needs to finish strong.

Spoke with a guy who attended this season's Kentucky-Louisville game on 12-21-16 (won by the home team 73-70). Louisville's arena capacity is 22K, 3rd largest in NCAA (BYU 18,987- 10TH largest)

He stated that the Kennel vs SMC was louder than what he experienced in Louisville. I wouldn't say that this guy tends towards hyperbole.


Acoustics.

maynard g krebs
02-03-2017, 12:27 PM
As to BYU supplanting SMC as the primary challenger to the Zags, a lot of people predicted that happening this year. I'll believe it when I see it. Bennett is worth about 15 points a game over Rose. That negates a lot of talent.

sittingon50
02-03-2017, 12:31 PM
Zagger, how jacked are they going to be for the Gaels?

From reading their board over the year's, I get the impression that they have more animosity for SMC than for the Zag's (Delly's game winner & mouth guard may have something to do with that).

Really hoping the Cougs can take out the Gaels in Provo.

ProVeeZag
02-03-2017, 12:37 PM
BYU's effort was equivalent to a mother lifting a car off of their child. The moment called for a super human effort, but this isn't who they really are.

Love this analogy! Odds are mom couldn't lift that car every Thursday and Saturday...

mgadfly
02-03-2017, 12:37 PM
I thought they played well last night. If they had gotten one more stop against the Zags late in the second half they wouldn't have had to foul and could have played the game out. Instead, they gave up a NWG three and a couple runners to let the #1 team in the nation get away from them.

I'm also not surprised that they played well. It isn't the first game this season either. In three of their four non-con losses I thought they played really well. They also beat Colorado and looked real good against a quality Utah State.

At times, BYU has been very impressive (like 12 to 15 minutes of the second half against the Zags). At times, they've looked like they are 327th in experience and 340th in minutes continuity.

DixieZag
02-03-2017, 12:41 PM
From reading their board over the year's, I get the impression that they have more animosity for SMC than for the Zag's (Delly's game winner & mouth guard may have something to do with that).

Really hoping the Cougs can take out the Gaels in Provo.

Interesting.

I thought it would be better to keep SMC unblemished except for us, so as to have them be a top 20-25 win?

I suppose if we win out it won't matter.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 12:45 PM
Spoke with a guy who attended this season's Kentucky-Louisville game on 12-21-16 (won by the home team 73-70). Louisville's arena capacity is 22K, 3rd largest in NCAA (BYU 18,987- 10TH largest)

He stated that the Kennel vs SMC was louder than what he experienced in Louisville. I wouldn't say that this guy tends towards hyperbole.


Acoustics.

Thanks for the info. I have no reason to dispute others' opinions. OTOH, we damn well better be loud for SMC and BYU, as opposed to teams lower on the WCC totem pole.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 12:47 PM
Interesting.

I thought it would be better to keep SMC unblemished except for us, so as to have them be a top 20-25 win?

I suppose if we win out it won't matter.

Last sentence is money...if we can beat SMC at McKeon, I might root for them in Provo.

seacatfan
02-03-2017, 12:48 PM
Some of you are more confident than I am. I've seen a few comments about "the game was never in doubt." I wasn't in the same boat. When the lead was trimmed to 6, with the way BYU was hitting 3's and forcing TO's, that game could've been tied up in a heartbeat. 2 possession games are somewhat "in doubt" in my mind and nobody is gonna convince me otherwise.

john montana
02-03-2017, 12:50 PM
My only comment...how does anyone cheer for emery. What a hack.

seacatfan
02-03-2017, 12:52 PM
Also with the other poster that BYU has to prove it before I have any reason to believe they will be the perennial #2 in the WCC, moving ahead of SMC. They've had plenty of seasons to do that. The names and faces keep changing at both SMC and BYU but the results are about the same every year. In fact several times there's been more of a race for BYU holding off whoever is #4 in a particular season than there is for BYU narrowing the gap w/ SMC. There were quite a few predictions for greatness for BYU this year and that they should be GU's primary competition, that hasn't worked out at all.

amaronizag
02-03-2017, 12:57 PM
seacat, in the 2nd half, I also thought the game was in doubt. The zone defense is GU's Kryptonite. Every time we face one, the game is in doubt. Really, really glad Goss is on our team!! Without him.....

kitzbuel
02-03-2017, 01:16 PM
BYU's effort was equivalent to a mother lifting a car off of their child. The moment called for a super human effort, but this isn't who they really are.
Lol

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U Zig, I Zag
02-03-2017, 01:24 PM
Some of you are more confident than I am. I've seen a few comments about "the game was never in doubt." I wasn't in the same boat. When the lead was trimmed to 6, with the way BYU was hitting 3's and forcing TO's, that game could've been tied up in a heartbeat. 2 possession games are somewhat "in doubt" in my mind and nobody is gonna convince me otherwise.

I am about as pessimistic and anyone on here. I have seen GU give up big leads, you have all seen that too. But I was confident we were gonna win, even as the crept back into it a bit. They just couldn't stop NWG.

kitzbuel
02-03-2017, 01:25 PM
Some of you are more confident than I am. I've seen a few comments about "the game was never in doubt." I wasn't in the same boat. When the lead was trimmed to 6, with the way BYU was hitting 3's and forcing TO's, that game could've been tied up in a heartbeat. 2 possession games are somewhat "in doubt" in my mind and nobody is gonna convince me otherwise.
This is the first game this season that I didn't fall asleep watching from here on the East Coast. 6 pts had my attention.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

HenneZag
02-03-2017, 01:32 PM
No disrespect to The Kennel, as I have never attended a game there. I've been to other venues, such as Iba-Gallagher (OSU), The Pit, Memphis, and UTEP, where the crowds routinely are SRO. The volume and intimidation from 12,000+ capacity arenas is a different level.

That was one impressive crowd last night. We have just four home games remaining. Kennel Club needs to finish strong.

I'm with ya. I've been to several games in the Kennel. The Kennel shows up for the big games but seem lethargic and quite tame in most others. The pre game is always rocking but we need to see the same energy throughout the game. BYU does have a great student section, lots of energy and choreography.

With all that said, the fans for the most part are pretty quiet. I'm not talking about all of course, their are hundreds of energetic fans but that's not enough. I almost feel like I'm annoying the people sitting around me when I cheer and yell. Most of the fans are season ticket holders at every game, maybe their bored or just expect to win every game so they just spectate.

If the fans brought 1/2 the energy the students do, the environment would be fantastic every night!

sittingon50
02-03-2017, 01:45 PM
Interesting.

I thought it would be better to keep SMC unblemished except for us, so as to have them be a top 20-25 win?

I suppose if we win out it won't matter.

See what you're saying Dix. I actually didn't think out the sequence very well, but guess it won't matter.

Assuming GU & SMC take care of business the next 2 games, then SMC will be ranked. It doesn't matter what happens after that; it's still a win over a ranked team, even if they lose games after that & drop out.

I was thinking of GU getting the #1 seed in the WCC Tourney, but since they play SMC before SMC plays BYU the Zags can create their own breathing room.

soccerdud
02-03-2017, 02:26 PM
BYU has recruited a bunch of 4-star recruits over recent years. Those guys are backed up with quality 3-star guys. Then a lot of their guys go off to two-year missions, fill out, and return as buff freshmen/sophomores. BYU seems to be figuring out how to play with each other (lots of new guys to mesh together), kind of like it took the Zags till about now to figure it out last season.

Methinks these guys could be monsters next, and following years. If Rose can fire 'em up, they'll beat the Vegemite outta St. Mary's in their upcoming Marriott Center showdown. Then, wouldn't be surprized, we'll face them (and not the Vegemites) in the WCC Tourney's Championship Game. (Strong hunch.)

BYU is going to supplant St. Mary's as the most-of-the-time WCC 2nd place team. They're more a threat to bump us off the hill top than St. Mary's, methinks, if they keep recruiting 4-stars (and Rose starts coaching defense).

...two cents...

:]

agree about where their team is and will be for a bit.

the only worry i have is that if they continue to lose games to non-GU/SMC teams (USD and SCU so far), they could end up 4th in conference and we'd have to go through both them AND SMC in the tourney. doable, but i'd rather not at this point.

jazzdelmar
02-03-2017, 04:16 PM
Josh's three threes staved off a BYU run in the first half. They were closing. Had they cut the lead to 3-6 it would have been a completely different game. NWG won the game but Josh's 9 points were huge. Still, 45% shooting and 14 TOs would doom us in a sweet 16 game vs a BCS team with 2 Mikas and 3 Hawses.

ZagLawGrad
02-03-2017, 04:21 PM
NWG is the best player on this team, and last night, it wasn't even really close. He will be the key to a Final Four if this team gets there.

spike_jr
02-03-2017, 08:41 PM
I thought BYU played hard and inspired, but we still hung 85 points on them while turning it over way too much and missing free throws. If we take away 3-4 of the bonehead turnovers and hit our free throws, we would have damn near hung 100 on them and beat them by 20 instead of 10. They played almost as well as the could and I though we played a B- game as a team. OTOH, they are young and with a lot of potential. Their future is quite bright, just not this year.

TravelinZag
02-04-2017, 03:31 AM
Got to love this board!! They love, but pick apart their own team, much like family.

Yet they are keen fans of the game who will praise a great effort from another team, its players, coach and fans, as exemplified by this thread. BYU will be a challenge when they come to Spokane, and the Kennel will have to have their "A" game to match Provo with less than one-third of the capacity! However, like the team, they can do it. And they will.

No one can complain that this game was not entertaining, but winning sure helps! Hats off to BYU and SMC! They, and the Zags, are this conference's greatest! Now if we could just get half of the effort from the bottom five, the WCC could become the Big West, with great competition, years when four losses still wins the championship and five teams get dance tickets! Not holding my breath (sigh), but think what this conference could be if its members gave a damn.

Go Zags -- out of the WCC if it won't improve.

Coach Crazy
02-04-2017, 04:36 AM
I agree with Spike_jr. Half the turnovers that were unforced, and half the free throws added that were missed, and I just don't see how we're having the same conversation?

I thought BYU would be better, overall, this year. But yeah, when you need home court and your opponent to play a B-ish level game to be within 10 at the buzzer, you're still a bit off from being able to compete.

This team can sense what needs to happen. They are going hit the Mary's in the mouth about as hard as they ever have been.

Randy should probably start practicing his best hand shake.


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GrizZAG
02-04-2017, 05:41 AM
I think Dave Rose reads this board. We have said "they play no defense" so often he got it. What we saw was a fierce defensive effort from BYU last night IMO. They got the memo. If I recall someone said something like "If they ever learned to play defense they would be nearly unstoppable".

To the point of the Kennel being a bit too sedate at times it is hard to not notice the demographic of the regular ticket holders other than the students when you are there. It is the same people who have the means to buy those seats year after year and the average age is older, on average wealthier and less crazy than the average sports fan across America. It's not that they aren't any more supportive, just they are a more reserved subset of sports fans in general. i.e.quieter
Much of Spokane wishes they could go to games and it was affordable. If it were possible the place would be crazy just like anywhere else.