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View Full Version : Gonzaga vs BYU post game thoughts



Reborn
02-02-2017, 09:50 PM
Gonzaga 85
BYU 75

GREAT VICTORY for our Zags against a very tough BYU team who gave us all we could handle. Haws, for BYU, was unconscious, hitting almost everything he threw up for 29 points. However, NWG was even better, scoring 36 POINTS, And most came in the 2nd half. As a team I thought Gonzaga did not play well. I'll let them off the hook because they played in an arena that is very difficult to win in. But I would say that outside of Williams-Goss no one else played well. I thought Karnowski was bad, Mathews real bad. J. Williams played good but didn't play much because of foul trouble. Thank God for Williams-Goss. He is really amazing. COLLINS played great on D and did a real good job on Mika. He was a strong rebounder and shot blocker.

The important thing is that we got the win, and it's so much fun to watching NWG play. The pundants can no longer say Gonzaga does not have a guy who can carry a team. In our 2 toughest conference games so far he carried this team. They can no longer say that in March this could be a problem. Also the Zags really hit the boards with power, but this advantage was nullified by a ton of turnovers. This is A real problem that is NOT getting fixed.

zagbeliever
02-02-2017, 09:54 PM
Very tough venue especially for our new players. Very happy with the win. Nigel is amazing.

CdAZagFan
02-02-2017, 09:55 PM
It says a lot about this team, that they can have a mostly "off" night and still lead most of the game by 15 points or so... I thought it was great to see them answer any time that BYU cut it to single digits. That was a good sign. Mathews looked pretty unconfident out there and stopped looking for his shot - he'll get it back. Perkins was aggressive early and was hitting his 3's (I think he is a little under appreciated for his 3pt shooting). I thought it was a great win in a great environment.

MickMick
02-02-2017, 09:56 PM
I just think it is great that the team and coaches are getting conditioned into accepting Goss as the guy they turn to when the wheels fall off the cart.

They try to use Karno in that situation, but he just comes up with unforced errors at bad times. Hell JP Batista is a legendary Zag, but he probably shouldn't be handling the ball 20' from the hoop at crunch time against UCLA. Same deal with Karno. I don't trust him in a slap fest. Emery stealing the ball from Karno and feeding Haws for the transition three was when BYU came dangerously close to taking over the game.

I hope the staff and players are coming to the realization that Goss can carry them over the finish line.

RenoZag
02-02-2017, 10:03 PM
Zags won the battle of the boards, 47 - 35. Made up for the 14 turnovers.

bballbeachbum
02-02-2017, 10:06 PM
Zags won the battle of the boards, 47 - 35. Made up for the 14 turnovers.

and for some missed FTs, but those d boards to clean up all those BYU forced misses were big

Reborn
02-02-2017, 10:09 PM
It says a lot about this team, that they can have a mostly "off" night and still lead most of the game by 15 points or so... I thought it was great to see them answer any time that BYU cut it to single digits. That was a good sign. Mathews looked pretty unconfident out there and stopped looking for his shot - he'll get it back. Perkins was aggressive early and was hitting his 3's (I think he is a little under appreciated for his 3pt shooting). I thought it was a great win in a great environment.

I agree about Perkins' ability to hit 3's, but he is sometimes real bad on defense and tonight was one of those nights. Also Perkins needs to become more than just a three point shooter.

Hoopaholic
02-02-2017, 10:11 PM
I agree about Perkins' ability to hi 3's, but he is sometimes real bad on defense and tonight was one of those nights. Also Perkins needs to becpme more than just a e point shooter.

He constantly pulled up his dribble against zone versus attacking gaps. Was frustrating because he can handle the rock and penetrate

bballbeachbum
02-02-2017, 10:15 PM
He constantly pulled up his dribble against zone versus attacking gaps. Was frustrating because he can handle the rock and penetrate

down the stretch thought he penetrated those gaps well though, both JP and NWG

CDC84
02-02-2017, 10:20 PM
I posted this elsewhere....

The problem that poor Nigel has is that there are too many great PG's in the country right now. He's truly one of the best plays in the nation. His performance tonight was special. 33pts, 12-18fg, 7-7ft, 7 boards, 3 steals and 4 assists.

Some guys came up with some big stats. Collins with 8 boards and Melson with 7 boards coming off the pine. Perkins with zero TO's although the team's turnover happy performance kept BYU hanging around.

Mika was held to 15pts on 5-15 from the field. GU held BYU to 36% from the field and 27% from three. But they did commit a lot of fouls.

I was very disappointed that GU allowed Haws to rip them for 29 points. The Zags have not allowed an offensive player to torch them like that in quite awhile. I don't know if it was because GU was so focused on stopping Mika, but this defense shouldn't be allowing a player like that to score at will. (although as Hoopaholic has noted, the refs allowed some fouls to take place that allowed Haws to get free).

I NEVER felt the game was seriously in doubt with Nigel at the controls. I don't know if I have ever felt that way about a point guard under Few. Mark has had some special PG's, but none this complete.

I suppose I should be happier with a double digit win in that environment, but I was disappointed with tonight's performance. A number of guys were just plain mediocre, and GU failed several times to put the game away.

As others have been saying, Jordan Mathews needs to start hitting shots or I might be tempted to start Melson over him. Silas has found his shot. He's 39% from three, 46% overall, and 87% from the foul line. And he is GU's best perimeter defender and most athletic player along with J. Williams. I would hate to do anything to screw up this team's chemistry, but Jordan needs to start hitting shots because that is his primary responsibility on this team.

That being said, a win is a win, and as Few has said, these guys have the mental maturity to learn lessons from victories where they didn't necessarily play their best. They don't need a loss.

Zags11
02-02-2017, 10:39 PM
It was a solid win and nwg put us on his back. I loved how jw3 played and he played with fire. Foul trouble was the cause for Perkins losing his flow and looking poor in the second half. I will take a win in Provo any day and once again we move to 23-0.

Zags_Fanatic
02-02-2017, 10:46 PM
Amazing that NWG played all 40 minutes in a fast-paced game after twisting his ankle and looked just as good in the last 10 minutes as he did in the first. Monumental performance from one of the all-time Zag greats.

ZagaZags
02-02-2017, 10:46 PM
TJ Haws is pretty darn good. It will be fun watching Haws vs Wade in the years to come. Haws reminds me of a character from Lord of the Rings, I just can't remember the character's name.

Edit: I might be thinking of The Hobbit.

CDC84
02-02-2017, 10:55 PM
I have to say that it got to be really irritating having Adrian Branch say over and over again that BYU was getting open shots but just weren't knocking them. From what I could tell, other than some of the Haws looks, there weren't nearly as many free looks as he thought.

MontanaCoyote
02-02-2017, 10:57 PM
I just think it is great that the team and coaches are getting conditioned into accepting Goss as the guy they turn to when the wheels fall off the cart.

They try to use Karno in that situation, but he just comes up with unforced errors at bad times. Hell JP Batista is a legendary Zag, but he probably shouldn't be handling the ball 20' from the hoop at crunch time against UCLA. Same deal with Karno. I don't trust him in a slap fest. Emery stealing the ball from Karno and feeding Haws for the transition three was when BYU came dangerously close to taking over the game.

I hope the staff and players are coming to the realization that Goss can carry them over the finish line.

I always try to look at posts like this with a balance sheet in mind, debits and credits, to see how it balances out.
The big guy did have five turnovers tonight. But he also, according to AP, got us off to a great start. He shot 58% and scored 9 points, pretty darn close to the margin of the win. Eight boards (tied for team lead) One assist and One Block.
He also came up with an absolutely critical offensive rebound in the second half.
On the turnovers, it was a war inside, tough going. The pass out of bounds was certainly unforced, but the Emery steal was just a super good play from Karno's blind side.

So, all things considered, I think the actuarial works out to a positive balance. Sure, not the big guys best game by any measure, but I'll take it. He's been GUunit of the game what, 6 times or more this year. Plenty good for me.

And you have to ask, do we win the game without him? Maybe, but maybe just maybe not.

RenoZag
02-02-2017, 11:01 PM
I have to say that it got to be really irritating having Adrian Branch say over and over again that BYU was getting open shots but just weren't knocking them. From what I could tell, other than some of the Haws looks, there weren't nearly as many free looks as he thought.

Adrian Branch was a tool. Useless as a screen door on a submarine.

Zagger
02-02-2017, 11:21 PM
NWG was awesome. Other Zags seemed slow on response time and .... tentative/uncertain. I felt a few open-ish shots were passed up and too much of the clock was taken up. BYU was effective on D in not allowing our guys to get inside and pass inside. Hard to knock a 10 point win in Provo though. It was sure nice to see Tillie on the court. If he gets 100% by Moraga it'll help round the Zags out. I'm eagerly awaiting the Mark Few Show on Sunday to hear what coach has to say about this game. Next up Santa Clara at home.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-03-2017, 02:45 AM
NWG was awesome. Other Zags seemed slow on response time and .... tentative/uncertain. I felt a few open-ish shots were passed up and too much of the clock was taken up. BYU was effective on D in not allowing our guys to get inside and pass inside. Hard to knock a 10 point win in Provo though. It was sure nice to see Tillie on the court. If he gets 100% by Moraga it'll help round the Zags out. I'm eagerly awaiting the Mark Few Show on Sunday to hear what coach has to say about this game. Next up Santa Clara at home.

All of the above. One post game thought I have not seen in this thread: gotta get NWG's ankle healthy. He tweaked it tonight and appeared to have an awkward gait thereafter...played 40 minutes. Zags need to blow out Santa Clara and rest NWG.

Birddog
02-03-2017, 04:01 AM
I have to say that it got to be really irritating having Adrian Branch say over and over again that BYU was getting open shots but just weren't knocking them. From what I could tell, other than some of the Haws looks, there weren't nearly as many free looks as he thought.
Branch seems to be very limited in his color commentary ability.
Maybe
"It's his decision making".

JPtheBeasta
02-03-2017, 04:42 AM
He constantly pulled up his dribble against zone versus attacking gaps. Was frustrating because he can handle the rock and penetrate

That has bothered me all year. He almost never tries to finish at the rim.

JPtheBeasta
02-03-2017, 04:45 AM
I always try to look at posts like this with a balance sheet in mind, debits and credits, to see how it balances out.
The big guy did have five turnovers tonight. But he also, according to AP, got us off to a great start. He shot 58% and scored 9 points, pretty darn close to the margin of the win. Eight boards (tied for team lead) One assist and One Block.
He also came up with an absolutely critical offensive rebound in the second half.
On the turnovers, it was a war inside, tough going. The pass out of bounds was certainly unforced, but the Emery steal was just a super good play from Karno's blind side.

So, all things considered, I think the actuarial works out to a positive balance. Sure, not the big guys best game by any measure, but I'll take it. He's been GUunit of the game what, 6 times or more this year. Plenty good for me.

And you have to ask, do we win the game without him? Maybe, but maybe just maybe not.

He also made things hard for flop-meister Mika.

Mantua
02-03-2017, 04:49 AM
In December, John Gasaway predicted
"First loss will happen: Feb. 2 at BYU. You're reading that correctly: The Zags will make it all the way to February without a loss. Speculation will build about whether Few's guys can follow in the footsteps of Wichita State in 2013-14 and make it to the NCAA tournament with a perfect record. We didn't really get a run-the-table drama nationally last season, so we're due. Thank you, Gonzaga."



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/18326951/when-unbeatens-college-basketball-suffer-their-first-loss

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 04:52 AM
He also made things hard for flop-meister Mika.

Haws is an exceptional flopper and thespian.

JPtheBeasta
02-03-2017, 04:56 AM
Haws is an exceptional flopper and thespian.

Did he play the part of Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies?

jazzdelmar
02-03-2017, 04:57 AM
I agree about Perkins' ability to hit 3's, but he is sometimes real bad on defense and tonight was one of those nights. Also Perkins needs to become more than just a three point shooter.

He's fifth option. A facilitator primarily.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2017, 05:10 AM
Did he play the part of Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies?

Perhaps he calls the ball "my precious."

strikenowhere
02-03-2017, 05:16 AM
Zags have taken 4 out of 6 at the Marriott Center since BYU joined the league - not so much of a home court advantage for the Cougars now is it?

strikenowhere
02-03-2017, 05:17 AM
Did he play the part of Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies?

According to a poster over at CougarBoard there was a contingent of Zags fans chanting "Smeagol!" every time he touched the ball.

JPtheBeasta
02-03-2017, 05:44 AM
According to a poster over at CougarBoard there was a contingent of Zags fans chanting "Smeagol!" every time he touched the ball.

Haha. We had our own at one time (Raivio).

djdallaszag
02-03-2017, 05:54 AM
Not sure what kind of offense we were running against that 1-3-1 zone, but it needs some work. Thank God for NWG and his ability to attack it on his own. But, we are going to need better flow against long and athletic teams playing the same D.

Hoopaholic
02-03-2017, 05:56 AM
Not sure what kind of offense we were running against that 1-3-1 zone, but it needs some work. Thank God for NWG and his ability to attack it on his own. But, we are going to need better flow against long and athletic teams playing the same D.

Was not a traditional rotation 1-3-1 zone. Thought this was the weak link in game as we simply did not adjust well to attack the overload zone

jbslicer
02-03-2017, 06:01 AM
Adrian Branch was a tool. Useless as a screen door on a submarine.

+1

zaguarxj
02-03-2017, 08:38 AM
Can somebody explain to me why the refs didn't even review the play in the 1st half when Tillie got clubbed in the face by a BYU player? I've seen Zag players DQ'd for lesser blows than that and everyone acted as if nothing happened, except Tillie, who looked a little stunned. Is there a new take on the rules where they're more lenient towards blows to the head or something?

Reborn
02-03-2017, 08:41 AM
The game is over. We're still undefeated at 23-0. It's simply awesome. CONGRATS to the coaches and players. The game last night was a huge test for the Zags, one of the biggest of the whole year. ALTHOUGH i WAS CONFIDENT that we'd win, there were several times that my confidence was shaken, and a victory, was in doubt. Haws was playing unconsciously, hitting every shot. When he hit that shot and got the lead down to six points I had to fight hard to keep the doubt out of my mind. And then after the time out Williams-Goss would hit shot after shot and get the lead back up to double digits. THIS scenario must have happened 3 or 4 times. The fans would go crazy, and tension was definitely attacking my body. NWG just carried us on his back, hitting shot after shot. The second half of this game was as good and exciting as any game we ever played in Provo. Haws' brother was one of the best players who ever played at BYU, but this Haws, on this nice, played far better than his brother ever played against GU. And in the end, it was NIGEL who Few put on Haws, and Nigel put him in check. It was a classic game of two very good guards giving all they had for their team. Nigel won 36 to 29.

Basketball is a team game and certainly every player on both teams gave everything they had to get a victory. I DON'T USUALLY HAVE A LOT OF NICE THINGS TO SAY ABOUT BYU, but I was very impressed by that BYU team last night. One of the posters was wondering where this BYU team has been all year. I was saying that same thing last night. BYU certainly has some very talented freshmen, and I look forward to the great battles we will have in the future. Rose, whether you like him or not, showed why he is a very good coach. He put a great game plan together, and his team executed it really well.

In the end, I learned once again why BYU is so hard to beat at home. The team and their loyal fans gave everything they had to upset the Zags. Yet they failed because THIS GONZAGA TEAM team does show up and are ready to play. No matter what kind of diversity that presents itself, they stare that adversity in the face, dig down deeply and just refuse to lose. Last night it was NWG, but next time it could be one of 7 other players who could lead this team. AND surely last night's victory was a team victory, and 8 guys Did contribute to it. Every single player, both those who played and those who cheered on the bench, gave everything they had to get that win. BYU played great. But Gonzaga played better. And no matter how good the Cougars defense was last night, the Zags still scored 85 points, hitting their season average in a most difficult place to win in.

I don't know about you, but I really enjoyed that game and it was much tougher than I THOUGHT it WOULD BE. It was nice to see a great game. IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME. THE Zags need that kind of game, and St Mary's will be even tougher.

Go Zgs!!!

TheGonzagaFactor
02-03-2017, 08:43 AM
I have to say that it got to be really irritating having Adrian Branch say over and over again that BYU was getting open shots but just weren't knocking them. From what I could tell, other than some of the Haws looks, there weren't nearly as many free looks as he thought.

He was awful. Sensationalist.

Called it a "new game" when BYU got within 9 with a crazy run. It was almost instantly back to a 16 point lead and he still talked like BYU was ONE BUCKET AWAY from evening things up.

kitzbuel
02-03-2017, 08:53 AM
TJ Haws is pretty darn good. It will be fun watching Haws vs Wade in the years to come. Haws reminds me of a character from Lord of the Rings, I just can't remember the character's name.

Edit: I might be thing of The Hobbit.
Gollum?



Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Reborn
02-03-2017, 08:58 AM
He was awful. Sensationalist.

Called it a "new game" when BYU got within 9 with a crazy run. It was almost instantly back to a 16 point lead and he still talked like BYU was ONE BUCKET AWAY from evening things up.

I can admit that I got worried. And the lead got closer than 9 points. AND BYU was making one run after another. HAWS was unconscious. But you are right, the Zags answered every run with one of their own,

CDC84
02-03-2017, 09:04 AM
Was not a traditional rotation 1-3-1 zone. Thought this was the weak link in game as we simply did not adjust well to attack the overload zone

Hoop (or any basketball guys) = what is the best way to attack that kind of defense? Teams so rarely use it. It's not something you would usually prepare your teams for at lot in practice unless you were facing some of John Beilein's teams at WVU who played 1-3-1 as their main defense. I mean, it helps if you have a guy like Nigel who can attack the gaps and who has a first rate floater that keeps him from charging into people, but it would be nice for the offense to have some more fluidity.

adoptedzag
02-03-2017, 09:16 AM
Can somebody explain to me why the refs didn't even review the play in the 1st half when Tillie got clubbed in the face by a BYU player? I've seen Zag players DQ'd for lesser blows than that and everyone acted as if nothing happened, except Tillie, who looked a little stunned. Is there a new take on the rules where they're more lenient towards blows to the head or something?

Tillie didn't get clubbed in the face, Mike fouled him and caused the ball and Tillie's own hand to poke himself in the eye. No reason to review, wasn't a dirty play or even deserving of anything more than a common foul.

Hoopaholic
02-03-2017, 09:18 AM
Hoop (or any basketball guys) = what is the best way to attack that kind of defense because teams so rarely use it. I mean, it helps if you have a guy like Nigel who can attack the gaps and who has first rate floater that keeps him from charging into people, but it would be nice for the offense to have some more fluidity.

The way BYU was playing the zone created a heavy overload of 4 defenders past the midpoint of the key, leaving a single defender on weakside

They were intent on making it very difficult for the traditional two guard upfront swing passes

we love to put shooter stationary in corner and BYU design was to have defender already in place to take that away

Traditionally you design guard fronts opposite what defense is doing...2 defenders you go single point guard on top offensively, odd defensive front you move to 2 guard front...this creates natural gaps to attack

The byu designed zone was more akin to 2-2-1 rotations than traditional 1-3-1....1-3-1 weak spot is corner shooting which is Mathews sweet spot so adjustment was to take that away and use our stationary passing scheme to defenses leverage
They did until we attacked off bounce weakside

In this twist I would treat it like 2 guard defensive set and conduct ball screen action.....I go double low block with my post players and take my opposite guard that is not used for guard screen and drag him across key to wing....this now forces the middle defender to choose to cover low ballside post player or the dragging shooting guard

If the screened defender drops to cover the dragging shooting guard the guard setting screen is in pick and pop mode at free throw line and will have free throw shot..drive to basket creating two on one with block post player

Bottom line for me on overload zone is to create weakside gaps to attack

seacatfan
02-03-2017, 09:32 AM
Tillie didn't get clubbed in the face, Mike fouled him and caused the ball and Tillie's own hand to poke himself in the eye. No reason to review, wasn't a dirty play or even deserving of anything more than a common foul.

I thought it was Kaufusi. But agreed, replay clearly showed he raked down on Tillie's forearm and Tillie bopped himself in the face.

jagwalkley
02-03-2017, 09:51 AM
I have to say that it got to be really irritating having Adrian Branch say over and over again that BYU was getting open shots but just weren't knocking them. From what I could tell, other than some of the Haws looks, there weren't nearly as many free looks as he thought.

He almost drives me nuts.Think of Dick-e v. Lot of talk,but they were both bad announcer's.Tillie was in the game for 2-3 minutes and they finally notice.

jazzdelmar
02-03-2017, 10:45 AM
Hope last night was a one off, poor performance, worst of the year kind of thing. Because 45% shooting isn't terrible but that with 14 TOs will spell doom in the S16 against a BCS team with 3 Emerys and 2 Mikas........NWG, JW, Josh in the first half and Collins in the last quarter were terrific.........Other than that, mediocre.

BayAreaZagFan
02-03-2017, 11:36 AM
"Haws is an exceptional flopper and thespian."

"Did he play the part of Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies?"

---

I was thinking a young "Red Forman" (the dad) from "That 70's Show".

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-03-2017, 03:17 PM
Hope last night was a one off, poor performance, worst of the year kind of thing. Because 45% shooting isn't terrible but that with 14 TOs will spell doom in the S16 against a BCS team with 3 Emerys and 2 Mikas........NWG, JW, Josh in the first half and Collins in the last quarter were terrific.........Other than that, mediocre.

With you jazz. Great win for Zags but some troubling performances for sure. I'm hoping this game serves as best case scenario: Zags get the W but many players not satisfied with their individual performances, coaches not satisfied with team's execution. Ample motivation and humility to improve and listen. NWG saved the day but his teammates will need to step up and perform for this team to reach its potential; namely: Matthews, Melson, Tillie, Collins

A to Zags
02-03-2017, 03:18 PM
The way BYU was playing the zone created a heavy overload of 4 defenders past the midpoint of the key, leaving a single defender on weakside

They were intent on making it very difficult for the traditional two guard upfront swing passes

we love to put shooter stationary in corner and BYU design was to have defender already in place to take that away

Traditionally you design guard fronts opposite what defense is doing...2 defenders you go single point guard on top offensively, odd defensive front you move to 2 guard front...this creates natural gaps to attack

The byu designed zone was more akin to 2-2-1 rotations than traditional 1-3-1....1-3-1 weak spot is corner shooting which is Mathews sweet spot so adjustment was to take that away and use our stationary passing scheme to defenses leverage
They did until we attacked off bounce weakside

In this twist I would treat it like 2 guard defensive set and conduct ball screen action.....I go double low block with my post players and take my opposite guard that is not used for guard screen and drag him across key to wing....this now forces the middle defender to choose to cover low ballside post player or the dragging shooting guard

If the screened defender drops to cover the dragging shooting guard the guard setting screen is in pick and pop mode at free throw line and will have free throw shot..drive to basket creating two on one with block post player

Bottom line for me on overload zone is to create weakside gaps to attack

Very well explained in coach speak. Ralph Miller, the great Wichita, Iowa and Oregon State coach, often pointed out that the best way to defend against a great post player was by putting pressure on the ball which BYU did very well last night.

Hoopaholic
02-03-2017, 03:22 PM
Very well explained in coach speak. Ralph Miller, the great Wichita, Iowa and Oregon State coach, often pointed out that the best way to defend against a great post player was by putting pressure on the ball which BYU did very well last night.

Especially if you cannot game plan reasonably to stop the post player for which Shem is in that category

Byu putting the point defender almost near half court was clearly designed to prevent ball reversal and trapping high created bad passing lanes into post

We will destroy this next game IMO

ProVeeZag
02-03-2017, 04:19 PM
"Haws is an exceptional flopper and thespian."

"Did he play the part of Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies?"

---

I was thinking a young "Red Forman" (the dad) from "That 70's Show".

Pretty good likeness I'd say; couldn't find a younger pic:

http://img2.tvtome.com/i/u/vL/f3b643b2c9a34491c46e206847c34295.jpg

ZagaZags
02-03-2017, 09:26 PM
Did he play the part of Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies?


kitzbuel

Gollum?

BINGO!

https://media.giphy.com/media/Q7ArXQiZ784ww/giphy.gif