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mzimmer
01-31-2017, 08:34 AM
As you know, I've been doing a little research as of late and started looking into advanced stats. I see that KenPom is used a great deal in forums and now that I'm aware of it (took me a while - I'm slow), I notice the national media use it quite a bit.

So here is this morning's interesting KenPom mashup of stats for you Zagaphites.

1. KenPom generates an MVP for each of the games. From what I gather, it's a statistical measurement that includes offense, defense, impact/%-used on both sides etc. etc.

Your only 5 MVPs for the season are:

Goss = 7 games
Karnowski = 6 games
Collins = 6 games
Williams = 1 game
Silas = 1 game
*these numbers account for all games except for Iowa St. in which Burton was the MVP.
**interesting but no surprise is that Zags have had the MVP in all games except 1. That's pretty impressive.

2. KenPom takes stats and impact, and gives a particular player similar players based on impact and gives them a score of how close the similar players are. I found this to be very interesting. As the implications are something entirely else to discuss. I'll let your minds wander on that for a minute - Enter the "eyeball" argument or more often known as "Fandom".

Goss
Similar Players: Delonte West '04(937), Jay Williams '02(929), Jarrett Jack '05(926), Scottie Wilbeken '13(922), Luke Nelson '16(917)

Karnowski
Similar Players: Matt Stainbrook '15(893, David Padgett '08(892, Roy Hibbert '08(891, Garrett Stutz '12(880), Matt Nelson '05(876

Collins
Similar Players: Jakob Poetl '15(908), Joel Embiid '14(892), DeAndre Jordan '08(892), Thomas Bryant '16(891), Darrell Arthur '07(887)

*number values are that of 1000. The closer to 1000, the closer the impact of the player more closely compares to the base player (Goss, Karnowski, Collins).


Now then, I'm sure you will see some pretty interesting stuff. Let's not trash anybody, or say this guy or that guy is only successful because.... Also, so that this doesn't get shut down, let's try not to trash a parent or each other. Fair?

Enjoy

GoZags
01-31-2017, 08:47 AM
As you know, I've been doing a little research as of late and started looking into advanced stats. I see that KenPom is used a great deal in forums and now that I'm aware of it (took me a while - I'm slow), I notice the national media use it quite a bit.

So here is this morning's interesting KenPom mashup of stats for you Zagaphites.

1. KenPom generates an MVP for each of the games. From what I gather, it's a statistical measurement that includes offense, defense, impact/%-used on both sides etc. etc.

Your only 5 MVPs for the season are:

Goss = 7 games
Karnowski = 6 games
Collins = 6 games
Williams = 1 game
Silas = 1 game
*these numbers account for all games except for Iowa St. in which Burton was the MVP.
**interesting but no surprise is that Zags have had the MVP in all games except 1. That's pretty impressive.

2. KenPom takes stats and impact, and gives a particular player similar players based on impact and gives them a score of how close the similar players are. I found this to be very interesting. As the implications are something entirely else to discuss. I'll let your minds wander on that for a minute - Enter the "eyeball" argument or more often known as "Fandom".

Goss
Similar Players: Delonte West '04(937), Jay Williams '02(929), Jarrett Jack '05(926), Scottie Wilbeken '13(922), Luke Nelson '16(917)

Karnowski
Similar Players: Matt Stainbrook '15(893, David Padgett '08(892, Roy Hibbert '08(891, Garrett Stutz '12(880), Matt Nelson '05(876

Collins
Similar Players: Jakob Poetl '15(908), Joel Embiid '14(892), DeAndre Jordan '08(892), Thomas Bryant '16(891), Darrell Arthur '07(887)

*number values are that of 1000. The closer to 1000, the closer the impact of the player more closely compares to the base player (Goss, Karnowski, Collins).


Now then, I'm sure you will see some pretty interesting stuff. Let's not trash anybody, or say this guy or that guy is only successful because.... Also, so that this doesn't get shut down, let's try not to trash a parent or each other. Fair?

Enjoy

Thanks for the research.

Could you please include the numbers for the Gonzaga players (you've put a "number" next to "similar" players to the Zags you've mentioned). Thanks. (or provide the link where one can look up these numbers ... thanks again).

mzimmer
01-31-2017, 09:42 AM
I'd love to, but I'm not sure what you are asking. IF I'm reading it right you are looking for a number next to the Zag player.

There are no numbers next to the Zag player. Consider the Zag player to be 1000. The number of the attached to the similar player is the value of how much the similar player is like in terms of statistical impact. In other words if Delonte West was the exact same player as Goss, West's number would be 1000. Make sense?

I can't post a link as you have to be subscribed member to KenPom. Maybe a screen shot? Although, I don't know how to do that.

GoZags
01-31-2017, 09:56 AM
I'd love to, but I'm not sure what you are asking. IF I'm reading it right you are looking for a number next to the Zag player.

There are no numbers next to the Zag player. Consider the Zag player to be 1000. The number of the attached to the similar player is the value of how much the similar player is like in terms of statistical impact. In other words if Delonte West was the exact same player as Goss, West's number would be 1000. Make sense?

I can't post a link as you have to be subscribed member to KenPom. Maybe a screen shot? Although, I don't know how to do that.

Okay. I now understand. In this model the Zag player is valued at 1,000. Thanks. (Trying to digest on my phone while working ).

scrooner
01-31-2017, 10:06 AM
I discovered this on Kenpom today and thought I would share. This shows end of season Kenpom ratings and where we won/lost in the tournament vs other Kenpom seeds.

2016 Zags #21. Beat 29,39. Lost to 27.
2015 Zags #7. Beat 152,23,40. Lost to 3.
2014 Zags #24. Beat 21. Lost to 2.
2013 Zags #5. Beat 162. Lost to 17 (Wichita St, who beat 11,5,50,7, and lost to #1 by 4 points).
2012 Zags #21. Beat 45. Lost to 2.
2011 Zags #36. Beat 41. Lost to 11.
2010 Zags #44. Beat 33. Lost to 3.
2009 Zags #8. Beat 96,88. Lost to 1.

There's only one real 'upset' in there. And we've lost to a top 3 Kenpom team 5 times in the last 8 years.

mgadfly
01-31-2017, 10:07 AM
I was looking at the MVPs the other day. Mika has 10. I think tied for 2nd place nationally.

One thing that I think everyone understands is that Ken Pomeroy has an algorithm set up to select players most like (statistically speaking) current players. So it isn't someone eyeing the two players and saying they are a lot alike. They may be completely different types of players, but they have the same statistical output according to the computer.

mgadfly
01-31-2017, 10:10 AM
I discovered this on Kenpom today and thought I would share. This shows end of season Kenpom ratings and where we won/lost in the tournament vs other Kenpom seeds.

2016 Zags #21. Beat 29,39. Lost to 27.
2015 Zags #7. Beat 152,23,40. Lost to 3.
2014 Zags #24. Beat 21. Lost to 2.
2013 Zags #5. Beat 162. Lost to 17 (Wichita St, who beat 11,5,50,7, and lost to #1 by 4 points).
2012 Zags #21. Beat 45. Lost to 2.
2011 Zags #36. Beat 41. Lost to 11.
2010 Zags #44. Beat 33. Lost to 3.
2009 Zags #8. Beat 96,88. Lost to 1.

There's only one real 'upset' in there. And we've lost to a top 3 Kenpom team 5 times in the last 8 years.

Pomeroy also allows you to download the "pre-tourney" rankings in excel format so you can see where they were before the final six games. Sometimes there are some fairly big swings, but mostly not.

Edit: For example, GU's defensive efficiency was 11th going into the 2009 tourney and they were 5th overall. They ended up losing to UNC in the Sweet 16 and finishing 8th overall with a 22nd ranked defense.