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Zagceo
01-06-2017, 06:09 AM
Love his game. Coaches and teammates seem to be feeding his confidence and it shows.

Can shoot the 3......rebounds.....pass...dunk.......and now a floater....not bad for 18 year old.

Have a feeling he's just getting started.

gonstu
01-06-2017, 06:17 AM
And that coast to coast slam last night!!! Yikes!

ZagMan in Philly
01-06-2017, 06:39 AM
Good Dribbling skills for a big guy.

jazzdelmar
01-06-2017, 06:49 AM
No reason he should not be as ballyhooed as Collins.

JPtheBeasta
01-06-2017, 06:56 AM
He's great on the take-off but just needs to work a bit on his landings :)

thespywhozaggedme
01-06-2017, 06:57 AM
No reason he should not be as ballyhooed as Collins.

Only reason that he's not is because he's a Euro. If he played highschool ball in the states he would be a Mickey Dee's AA. If ZC stays for his sophomore year those two in the front court will be unstoppable next year.

TexasZagFan
01-06-2017, 07:03 AM
Only reason that he's not is because he's a Euro. If he played highschool ball in the states he would be a Mickey Dee's AA. If ZC stays for his sophomore year those two in the front court will be unstoppable next year.

Let's not forget about JWIII and Jacob Larson...

Hoopaholic
01-06-2017, 07:10 AM
My second favorite player. Behind Santa shem

23zagmd
01-06-2017, 07:13 AM
No reason he should not be as ballyhooed as Collins.

I agree with this 100%, I even like his explosion a bit more and he is going to be a tireless rebounder! Still very raw from refined skill standpoint and the upside is unbelievable.

Reborn
01-06-2017, 07:32 AM
I'm glad to see a thread for Tille. He showed last night that he does have an offensive game, and a good one. It was good to see him exert himself. He's been our toughest guy all year, and now, in the last two games, he's beginning to score too. That runner in the key is a very nice shot. I'm sure he caught the eyes of a few scouts last night.

MontanaCoyote
01-06-2017, 07:32 AM
Good Dribbling skills for a big guy.

Good!? I'd say better than good, like maybe ........really good. Have to save anything loftier so we've got 'um later when we'll need 'um.

Ezag
01-06-2017, 07:38 AM
Only reason that he's not is because he's a Euro. If he played highschool ball in the states he would be a Mickey Dee's AA. If ZC stays for his sophomore year those two in the front court will be unstoppable next year.

In France he was a "Quick A.A." :cheers: "Quick" is a popular burger joint in France.

thespywhozaggedme
01-06-2017, 07:43 AM
Let's not forget about JWIII and Jacob Larson...

Yes indeed, both will be great bench depth. Next year may even be deeper if NWG and ZC return; that's insane to think about.

thespywhozaggedme
01-06-2017, 07:45 AM
I agree with this 100%, I even like his explosion a bit more and he is going to be a tireless rebounder! Still very raw from refined skill standpoint and the upside is unbelievable.

I actually don't think he's raw, I think he's being deferential. he has all of the moves. he actually reminds me of a more athletic Sabonis.

Murphy outgo lifer
01-06-2017, 07:46 AM
I agree with this 100%, I even like his explosion a bit more and he is going to be a tireless rebounder! Still very raw from refined skill standpoint and the upside is unbelievable.

I completely agree. He has a different game style than Collins but if he can develop a better inside game like Wiltjer did than he can be a consistent scoring threat. That combined with his shooting prowess and ability to take people off the dribble should provide a very reliable player in the future. That is to say nothing about his blocking and rebounding skills which are already above many players we have had in the past.

zagfan24
01-06-2017, 08:06 AM
He has been, by far, the biggest surprise to me on this year's team. The ability to essentially platoon our frontcourt has been a huge advantage for the Zags. Karnowski appears more rested and each "group" seems to be gaining comfort playing alongside one another. It also really limits the extent to which foul trouble up front can be problematic for the Zags. I expected Collins to look dynamic this season but had clue that Tillie would be right there in step. Incredible motor as well.

WallaWallaZag
01-06-2017, 08:11 AM
I actually don't think he's raw, I think he's being deferential. he has all of the moves. he actually reminds me of a more athletic Sabonis.

he's already highly skilled...but he's raw from an experience perspective and figuring out how to utilize all his tools...and only because he's been injured so much...which might be something to be worried about after watching him play the past couple games. he's like the center fielder who is always running into the wall trying to rob homers.

JPtheBeasta
01-06-2017, 08:31 AM
I wonder if he has any back to the basket game... Right now he plays more like a big wing player/stretch 4.

kitzbuel
01-06-2017, 08:42 AM
Love his game. Coaches and teammates seem to be feeding his confidence and it shows.

Can shoot the 3......rebounds.....pass...dunk.......and now a floater....not bad for 18 year old.

Have a feeling he's just getting started.

There were definitely some suspicion he was going to be good in the preseason.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?57773-TSSF-Killian-Tillie

tinfoilzag
01-06-2017, 08:45 AM
He's still learning of defense. He has the ability to get down and stay in front of the smaller/quicker guys he's been guarding but he's had some lapses, especially when closing out. He really loves leaving his guy to block shots, but the results have been hit and miss. His decision making and consistency should only improve in those areas.

We are now starting to see some of the new players, including Tillie, figure out when to get their shots. It's crazy to think we can have 2 double-double guys coming off the bench.

john montana
01-06-2017, 09:30 AM
He destroyed Collins in the 3 on 3 tournament this summer. He just has a great nose for the ball. I love watching him play.

Mantua
01-07-2017, 04:09 PM
Killian's brother, Kevin, has a Kamloops connection.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/volleyball-men/article/2012-05-04/road-less-traveled

U Zig, I Zag
01-07-2017, 05:12 PM
KT is awesome. Love his hustle and he seems pumped to be out there playing ball. Great hops, good handles, nose for the ball. Going to be good for the Zags for a number of years.

btzag
01-07-2017, 07:32 PM
There were definitely some suspicion he was going to be good in the preseason.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?57773-TSSF-Killian-Tillie

That's why it's always a good idea to question the 'experts' on this board! I got killed this summer for insisting he would be our backup 4 and ZC would be our backup 5. The talent and athleticism was always there on tape gotta think some people had some bias that the euro style is less physical or something....

3XaZag
01-07-2017, 11:04 PM
When blocked out, his ability to go up and over people for rebounds without fouling is phenomenal. Even when he doesn't get the rebound, how many times have we seen him keep it alive for others to get. My gut tells me this happens an average of 3 to 4 times a game. It doesn't show up on the stat line but get us possessions and points. One of the best 'out of area' rebounders I have seen this side of the NBA. Hasn't had the hype, but a large part of why GU is undefeated. (hey...100th post, 10 per year like clockwork)

ZagaZags
01-07-2017, 11:12 PM
http://www.netanimations.net/Moving-animated-eyes-finger-pointing-down.gif


No reason he should not be as ballyhooed as Collins.

Tillie will be a great remedy when Collins heads to the NBA in a few years. Tillie has a major motor.

Malastein
01-08-2017, 12:28 AM
He'll blow up at some point when he adds strength. I think he could end up as a better pro than Collins down the line. Very smart and tenacious. An absolute glue guy. Would love to see both those guys for 3 years.

cggonzaga
01-08-2017, 01:24 AM
I said Tillie was going to be good soon after he committed however let's slow the hype train down a bit. That was by far Tillie's best game of the season. Definitely got a glimpse of what he can do but I'm not ready to hype him over Collins who has been very good and very consistent all season. Prior to last night's game Tillie was averaging like 4ppg and a little over 2rpg. As he continues to add strength and consistency he will be a force.

Whoever said he dominated Collins in the 3v3 tournament needs to go back and watch the tape. Tillie played great but it was generally against PJ Washington not Collins.

Also, I find this board interesting. Silas Melson has been consistently our 2nd best guard this year after absolutely getting hammered on this board all last season. Somebody starts a Melson appreciation thread a few days ago and it gets like 15 comments and is gone in about a day. Tillie has a great game after several average to below average games and multiple posters are ready to anoint him the next Dirk Nowitski. I don't get it. I guess people see what they want to see.

CDC84
01-08-2017, 01:31 AM
I said this in another post, the offensive move of Tillie's that I really like that he showed off 2x in the USF game is that mid range shot going towards the rim. It's almost impossible to block, high percentage, and in control so that he avoids a charging call.

There is still a lot of rawness to this kid's game, but we knew that going in. We also knew that he needed to bulk up some. If he sticks with it, shows enthusiasm for the game and takes in coaching, he has a chance to be special. He's a terrific shot blocker as well. Really athletic, and has a great motor. He's a really nice backup big man for a top 25 team.

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-08-2017, 01:57 AM
. ..........
.......

Also, I find this board interesting. Silas Melson has been consistently our 2nd best guard this year after absolutely getting hammered on this board all last season. Somebody starts a Melson appreciation thread a few days ago and it gets like 15 comments and is gone in about a day. Tillie has a great game after several average to below average games and multiple posters are ready to anoint him the next Dirk Nowitski. I don't get it. I guess people see what they want to see.

+1

Zagger
01-08-2017, 04:37 AM
.........Also, I find this board interesting. Silas Melson has been consistently our 2nd best guard this year after absolutely getting hammered on this board all last season. Somebody starts a Melson appreciation thread a few days ago and it gets like 15 comments and is gone in about a day. Tillie has a great game after several average to below average games and multiple posters are ready to anoint him the next Dirk Nowitski. I don't get it. I guess people see what they want to see.
Prolly cuz Tillie is new and Silas isn't. My favorite Zags are Karno and Silas. Both are doing pretty darn well this season. Tillie's motor is what excites me most about the guy. Anyone who reminds me even in the slightest about Mike Hart brings me a grin.

And, the two guys seem to find time for fun .....
http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2017/01/05/aga_San_Francisco_Basketball.JPG_wJgvmiT_r1170x658 .jpg

Mr Vulture
01-08-2017, 08:38 AM
That was actually two summers ago and I wouldn't say he "destroyed" Collins....


He destroyed Collins in the 3 on 3 tournament this summer. He just has a great nose for the ball. I love watching him play.

john montana
01-08-2017, 08:41 AM
That was actually two summers ago and I wouldn't say he "destroyed" Collins....

Destroyed is strong, granted, but a lot of people who watched that came out thinking tillie got the better of him. I am glad we have them both, and how they fit together is pretty impressive.

bballbeachbum
01-08-2017, 09:47 AM
great thread. would add that the guy is a gamer, plays with a belief in himself, very confident, fills up the intangibles stats imo. Doesn't seem raw to me, actually seems skilled with a high bball IQ, a Euro big man game with the tough playground paint skills to match. Good on the ball defender in the post or on the perimeter, good help defender, hyper aggressive rebounder. Dude is a ball player, just love watching him play!

Coach Crazy
01-08-2017, 01:01 PM
Also, I find this board interesting. Silas Melson has been consistently our 2nd best guard this year after absolutely getting hammered on this board all last season. Somebody starts a Melson appreciation thread a few days ago and it gets like 15 comments and is gone in about a day. Tillie has a great game after several average to below average games and multiple posters are ready to anoint him the next Dirk Nowitski. I don't get it. I guess people see what they want to see.

If he was producing at the same level as last year, he'd be getting criticism. He's also not the "NBA talent" potential that he was thought to be, by some. He adjusted and became a glue guy/utility player (although not at the same offensive level as Byron Wesley and Kyle Dranginis).

If expectations had been set better, early on, it might have been a bit different.

Hopefully, he keeps it up and builds on things. If he was this year's version of Silas last year? We might have gone to the Elite Eight.



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isongd
01-08-2017, 07:33 PM
And that coast to coast slam last night!!! Yikes!

So mad at myself. Was sitting baseline front row, closest seat to the basket on the dunk side. Two possessions before the dunk I told myself to put the phone away I had enough pictures and videos. Was incredible live, but wish I got that dunk on camera.

seacatfan
01-08-2017, 08:10 PM
If expectations had been set better, early on, it might have been a bit different.


Absolutely. Expectations were so unrealistic when he arrived, no way he could possibly live up to it. He's currently a very solid contributor.

cggonzaga
01-08-2017, 10:41 PM
If expectations had been set better, early on, it might have been a bit different.

Or if people just let these kids have a year or two to develop...

Coach Crazy
01-09-2017, 03:54 AM
Or if people just let these kids have a year or two to develop...

We're able to say this now because he of where he is now. There was a chance he would be closer to BA than who he is now.

What's only getting more clear is that volume shooters like Silas have the potential to struggle in an offense like Coach Few's. He was probably better off in another program. But if he can stay at this level or take things a little higher, then he'll have really justified his developmental process.

As well, though, production that low just won't have the same allowance in future years. At least in terms of justifying significant minutes.


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Birddog
01-09-2017, 04:10 AM
volume shooters like Silas
Where does that come from. I for one have never considered Melson to be a "volume shooter". Maybe I'm the one that's crazy.

TexasZagFan
01-09-2017, 06:30 AM
Where does that come from. I for one have never considered Melson to be a "volume shooter". Maybe I'm the one that's crazy.

You've got company in the loony bin. IMO, Silas has received more than his fair share of criticism, up to the last 5-6 games. He's evolved into one of the top sixth men in the country.

WallaWallaZag
01-09-2017, 07:04 AM
Where does that come from. I for one have never considered Melson to be a "volume shooter". Maybe I'm the one that's crazy.

that's usually associated with scorers who put up big numbers but without great efficiency...don't know if that was the case for melson in high school or not...

Coach Crazy
01-09-2017, 07:29 AM
Where does that come from. I for one have never considered Melson to be a "volume shooter". Maybe I'm the one that's crazy.

I was speaking of high school Melson. His style coming into college was far more conducive to UW than here.

But even Silas at GU, before his adjustment, seemed like a kid that would need more ball handling time and extra shots to get going, if he wasn't on. This just isn't an offense for those types. So, perhaps you could also say low efficiency producer is another type that won't fly here...unless they adjust.

Every team needs that big dog/Iso type...but only in the flow of the game.

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MontanaCoyote
01-09-2017, 07:51 AM
Or if people just let these kids have a year or two to develop...

Good advice! Let's take it to heart. The expectations game is always dangerous. Too much pressure on a kid too soon.

mgadfly
01-09-2017, 08:38 AM
Also, I find this board interesting. Silas Melson has been consistently our 2nd best guard this year

While I agree with the idea that this Board is a little crazy on heaping praise on the new guys while not having realistic expectations for some of the current guys, I don't think SM has consistently been our 2nd best guard. How so? I'd rank him right where he is at in the rotation, which is the 4th best guard. 1. NWG, 2. Perkins, 3. JM and 4. SM. Looking at JM's and SM's statistics, they are almost a match in efficiency, ball handling, rebounding, but Melson fouls twice as often and can't knock down a three pointer as well. All four guards have done great including Melson, but I don't really see much room to criticize the three guys in front of him either.

cggonzaga
01-09-2017, 12:24 PM
While I agree with the idea that this Board is a little crazy on heaping praise on the new guys while not having realistic expectations for some of the current guys, I don't think SM has consistently been our 2nd best guard. How so? I'd rank him right where he is at in the rotation, which is the 4th best guard. 1. NWG, 2. Perkins, 3. JM and 4. SM. Looking at JM's and SM's statistics, they are almost a match in efficiency, ball handling, rebounding, but Melson fouls twice as often and can't knock down a three pointer as well. All four guards have done great including Melson, but I don't really see much room to criticize the three guys in front of him either.

I was not criticizing Perkins or Matthews. Nor was I suggesting Silas should be starting. When we are speaking about consistency however, I don't think it's off base to put Silas above the other 2 this year especially when considering overall game play. It may surprise some people as well that Silas is now shooting 31% from the 3pt line. Certainly not great but not as horrid as some to think around here. While both Josh and Jordan have been very good at times, it's been a bit of an up and down year so far for both players.

seacatfan
01-09-2017, 12:34 PM
Mathews has definitely run hot and cold. When he's been good, he's been really good. Then other games he's nearly invisible.

maynard g krebs
01-09-2017, 12:45 PM
Mathews has definitely run hot and cold. When he's been good, he's been really good. Then other games he's nearly invisible.

The last 7 games he's 23/49 on 3's, 47%. Made at least three 3's in 6 of 7 games, and was 1 for 3 in the other. Very consistent following the little slump early in the season. I think we can hope he went through an adjustment period and is comfortable with the offense and his new teammates now.l

jazzdelmar
01-09-2017, 01:01 PM
Melson playing marginally better than last year. Certainly not transformational. Even though Josh has slipped the past couple of games, he's still ahead of SM and Mathews offers a higher ceiling than SM. So, right, he's the 4th guard.

cggonzaga
01-09-2017, 04:30 PM
Melson playing marginally better than last year. Certainly not transformational. Even though Josh has slipped the past couple of games, he's still ahead of SM and Mathews offers a higher ceiling than SM. So, right, he's the 4th guard.

Thank the Lord you don't coach this team. I guess Few's commentary on Silas aren't enough for you. Then again this is a kid you've always ragged on and had like 6th on the guard depth chart going into the year. Are you really that vain to admit you were wrong about him? Again, I'm not saying he should start or play more minutes than the others.

Guard stats per 40 min played - not named Goss. You tell me who is who.

Pts Assists Rebounds Turnovers Steals 2pt fg % 3pt fg% total fg% ft %
Player A 13.4 4.7 3.1 3.3 1.9 44% 46% 45% 78%
Player B 16 2.1 4.8 1.3 1.1 29% 42% 38% 85%
Player C 14.1 2.8 4.9 1.3 1.5 56% 31% 44% 85%

Martin Centre Mad Man
01-09-2017, 04:56 PM
I actually don't think he's raw, I think he's being deferential. he has all of the moves. he actually reminds me of a more athletic Sabonis.

He plays more like a freshman Morrison. He doesn't have Sabonis's motor or strength but he's more fluid as a ball-handler. Either way, this kid's potential is amazing.

3XaZag
01-09-2017, 10:59 PM
He plays more like a freshman Morrison. He doesn't have Sabonis's motor or strength but he's more fluid as a ball-handler. Either way, this kid's potential is amazing.

This thread is about Tille?

WallaWallaZag
01-10-2017, 01:41 AM
He plays more like a freshman Morrison. He doesn't have Sabonis's motor or strength but he's more fluid as a ball-handler. Either way, this kid's potential is amazing.

actually think his motor comes pretty close watching him go after rebounds...he just lacks the strength and size of sabonis right now...sabonis just bullied people.

mgadfly
01-10-2017, 10:42 AM
I was not criticizing Perkins or Matthews. Nor was I suggesting Silas should be starting. When we are speaking about consistency however, I don't think it's off base to put Silas above the other 2 this year especially when considering overall game play. It may surprise some people as well that Silas is now shooting 31% from the 3pt line. Certainly not great but not as horrid as some to think around here. While both Josh and Jordan have been very good at times, it's been a bit of an up and down year so far for both players.

I see a difference between consistency and "consistently been our 2nd best guard." The former seems to me that they put in the same performance every time. Mr. Consistency may be good or bad but gets us the same stat-line pretty much.

Mr. "Consistently our 2nd best guard" may have more variation in his stat line, but when ranking the performances of the guards, would almost always be ranked #2.

As far as consistency goes (not measuring whether it is consistently good or bad, but we know about what we are going to get), I think that has to go to NWG or Matthews. If you look at JM, he had two great games to start the season followed by one bad game and three mediocre games. Since then, every performance has graded out as pretty much the same contributions, at least in terms of efficiency.

NWG has a bit more choppier graph but the exceptions were game #2 (bad-only JM had a good game for the guards in that one), #3 and #15. #3 and #15 were great games but they deviated from his typical efficiency range (which is already pretty good).

Melson, on the other hand, had a very good game 1, horrible game 2, climbs out of the funk with two mediocre games, followed by a good to decent game, before having a horrible game, followed by a good game, followed by a horrible game, followed by the best efficiency performance by a Zag guard this season. Then he strung together five consistently good games followed by a bit of a let down in #15. His defensive effort may have been more consistent, but even looking at those stats he is up and down as much as the other guys.

As far as second best guard (by efficiency contributions):
1. SM
2. NWG
3. JP
4. SM
5. JP
6. JP
7. JM
8. JM
9. NWG
10. JM
11. NWG
12. NWG
13. SM
14. JM
15. JM

And the most efficient guards in games was SM, JP, NWG 4 times each with JM 3 times.

I'm bored and at work trying to get motivated, so wasted a bunch of time looking at all these stats, but I'm pretty much where I was before:
1. All four guards have played really well this season.
2. Silas has not been more consistent than any of the other three guards.
3. Silas has not consistently been our second best guard.
4. I like Silas' effort and length on defense.
5. I like the other guards' ability to knock down three pointers at an 11%, 12% or 16% better rate than Silas.

maynard g krebs
01-10-2017, 10:48 AM
Silas started the season 5/25 on 3's in the first 8 games, 20%. In the last 7 he's 10/23, 43%. If he's found his shot and continues at the latter pace (and it's been consistent, not based on one or two hot games like in the past) it's a different conversation.

mgadfly
01-10-2017, 10:53 AM
Silas started the season 5/25 on 3's in the first 8 games, 20%. In the last 7 he's 10/23, 43%. If he's found his shot and continues at the latter pace (and it's been consistent, not based on one or two hot games like in the past) it's a different conversation.

Since the UW game forward he has been shooting the ball well. You're right, if that holds up there is very little room to criticize SM.

cggonzaga
01-10-2017, 01:03 PM
I see a difference between consistency and "consistently been our 2nd best guard." The former seems to me that they put in the same performance every time. Mr. Consistency may be good or bad but gets us the same stat-line pretty much.

Mr. "Consistently our 2nd best guard" may have more variation in his stat line, but when ranking the performances of the guards, would almost always be ranked #2.

As far as consistency goes (not measuring whether it is consistently good or bad, but we know about what we are going to get), I think that has to go to NWG or Matthews. If you look at JM, he had two great games to start the season followed by one bad game and three mediocre games. Since then, every performance has graded out as pretty much the same contributions, at least in terms of efficiency.

NWG has a bit more choppier graph but the exceptions were game #2 (bad-only JM had a good game for the guards in that one), #3 and #15. #3 and #15 were great games but they deviated from his typical efficiency range (which is already pretty good).

Melson, on the other hand, had a very good game 1, horrible game 2, climbs out of the funk with two mediocre games, followed by a good to decent game, before having a horrible game, followed by a good game, followed by a horrible game, followed by the best efficiency performance by a Zag guard this season. Then he strung together five consistently good games followed by a bit of a let down in #15. His defensive effort may have been more consistent, but even looking at those stats he is up and down as much as the other guys.

As far as second best guard (by efficiency contributions):
1. SM
2. NWG
3. JP
4. SM
5. JP
6. JP
7. JM
8. JM
9. NWG
10. JM
11. NWG
12. NWG
13. SM
14. JM
15. JM

And the most efficient guards in games was SM, JP, NWG 4 times each with JM 3 times.

I'm bored and at work trying to get motivated, so wasted a bunch of time looking at all these stats, but I'm pretty much where I was before:
1. All four guards have played really well this season.
2. Silas has not been more consistent than any of the other three guards.
3. Silas has not consistently been our second best guard.
4. I like Silas' effort and length on defense.
5. I like the other guards' ability to knock down three pointers at an 11%, 12% or 16% better rate than Silas.

I appreciate all your work on this fly. I agree with some things and not others but there's nothing wrong with that. It's a good summarization.

To follow up on my post with Players A, B, C., I'm sure most figured out whom was whom. Player A=Perkins, Player B=Matthews, Player C=Melson. Based upon 40mpg production and just stats the guards are all pretty even. If I had to choose which player's numbers were a little better than the others it would be Melson. Despite the stats and eye test, jazz would still have Melson completely relegated to the bench.