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View Full Version : O.T. Duke actually does the right thing and suspends Grayson indefinitely



thespywhozaggedme
12-22-2016, 07:23 AM
Kudos to Coach K

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18331583/duke-blue-devils-suspend-grayson-allen-another-tripping-incident

Kong-Kool-Aid
12-22-2016, 07:29 AM
Acted before the league did, lets see how long "indefinitely" actually is, my guess is for the exact amount of time the ACC decides.

zag67
12-22-2016, 07:33 AM
Good move. Coach K shows leadership and why he is who he is

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 07:33 AM
Kid needs professional help.

BavarianZag
12-22-2016, 07:36 AM
My guess is "indefinitely" means 3 games, maybe 4 games...

He'll "do all the right things", apologize and act contrite, yada yada.

I suspect he'll be re-integrated vs. FSU, just in time for the game vs. L'Ville.

TexasZagFan
12-22-2016, 07:41 AM
Good move. Coach K shows leadership and why he is who he is

Hmmm, last night he said that Allen apologized, and that was good enough for him. What made him change his mind?

bartruff1
12-22-2016, 07:42 AM
I imagine this will cure it..... I am still waiting to hear when North Carolina does the right thing....and I don't mean the bathroom law..

TexasZagFan
12-22-2016, 07:48 AM
I imagine this will cure it..... I am still waiting to hear when North Carolina does the right thing....and I don't mean the bathroom law..

Don't hold your breath, bart...please...

Zag_Dad
12-22-2016, 07:51 AM
That kid has a screw loose... what a shame. So much talent but hasn't matured past the early teen hormonal, out of control development stage.

Apparently the ACC has accepted Duke's "indefinitely" suspension which means Duke could decide he plays after sitting out one game. I doubt that will happen, I'm guessing 3-4 games, but it seems like they just handed it over to Duke without knowing what the suspension would actually be.

gonzagafan62
12-22-2016, 07:54 AM
Indefinitely probably means one game. If we are being serious here we shouldn't give kudos until we know what the real punishment is.

U Zig, I Zag
12-22-2016, 07:55 AM
Someone posted on ESPN or Yahoo or whatever, something about 'can you imagine what it's like for the girls he dates?'. Which is something to think about, hate to play armchair pysch but he seems a bit unhinged. His breakdown on the bench and then again in the press conference was disturbing. Something is going on there.

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 08:02 AM
I say again, the young man has major emotional issues...they go beyond hoops. I am guessing K knows this and is understandably concerned...Really not appropriate to excoriate the kid, he's troubled. IMO

zagsfanforlife
12-22-2016, 08:07 AM
Oh please with the posts praising coach Rat Head. If you want to make a statement you come out with a 5 game suspension. Not "indefinitely" aka when we really need a win. If Duke loses, he will be back the next game. Tired of this all holy mantra of duke. Coach K is a whiner on the sidelines as well, Grayson is a spoiled brat, and if his coach would have treated Grayson accordingly from the beginning, tripping incident 1 wouldnt have turned into incident 2, and incident 2 wouldnt have turned in to 3. Not praising Duke or Coach K for having the option to lift suspension whenever they want. Take a hard stance-- something you should have done long ago.

zagsfanforlife
12-22-2016, 08:09 AM
Indefinitely probably means one game. If we are being serious here we shouldn't give kudos until we know what the real punishment is.


exactly. Coach K deserves 0 credit in this situation. 3rd time it happened.

Kong-Kool-Aid
12-22-2016, 08:20 AM
He put him back in the game when Elon got close.

LongIslandZagFan
12-22-2016, 08:28 AM
I can't nor won't heap any praise on Coach K. Give the kid a break after the first one last year... I'm OK with that. Instead, you get an enabled GA who thinks he can get away with it... so he does it again. Coach K... whom some are praising here... does basically nothing. So why heap praise on him now when, from what I can tell, he was about to let him off the hook again last night because he apologized? Instead, I suspect the AD and school likely stepped in and forced Coach K to do something. If he can make it exactly one game, you know he will. The reality is... they'll be forced to take their lumps against V-Tech and will play without him. After that it is GTech and BC... which equate to meaningless games... so really a 3 game suspension will basically be one.

You know what would make me respect Coach K... how about suspending 10 games, requiring him to get counseling... and barring him from all practices and team functions. THAT would garner respect. Not an open ended we can get him back whenever we want or need him garbage like he is doing right now. He should be caring about the kid and getting him help... not worrying about Ws... he's had enough of those in his life that potentially sacrificing a few for the sake of one of his players would be far more noble.

CDC84
12-22-2016, 08:38 AM
I said after the incident in a post last night that the fact that he did this in a game vs. Elon speaks volumes. One of the other tripping incidents happened against Louisville last season - a game where I can see someone trying to get an illegal competitive advantage. Duke, in theory, should be able to beat Elon with their hands tied behind their back. As others have suggested, his extreme emotional reactions after the game really suggest that he could possibly have some underlying mental health/emotional problems. I really hope that during this time off that Duke looks into whether something is troubling the kid psychiatrically. I'm serious about this. That's more important than basketball right now.

TexasZagFan
12-22-2016, 08:40 AM
It wasn't surprising to see the "Standing O's" from Duke fans when GA was put back in the game.

Worst part of it is the Duke homer that works in my officer isn't here today. OTOH, the coworker from Syracuse is...lol.

CDC84
12-22-2016, 08:43 AM
Someone brought up Christian Laettner is this thread. Did anyone ever see the ESPN 30/30 special "I Hate Christian Laettner." What a title :) If you google it, you can watch the program online.

kitzbuel
12-22-2016, 08:47 AM
I say again, the young man has major emotional issues...they go beyond hoops. I am guessing K knows this and is understandably concerned...Really not appropriate to excoriate the kid, he's troubled. IMO
Disagree, Jazz. He needs to figure out how to use his talent and interact normally with others.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

bballbeachbum
12-22-2016, 08:59 AM
I can't nor won't heap any praise on Coach K. Give the kid a break after the first one last year... I'm OK with that. Instead, you get an enabled GA who thinks he can get away with it... so he does it again. Coach K... whom some are praising here... does basically nothing. So why heap praise on him now when, from what I can tell, he was about to let him off the hook again last night because he apologized? Instead, I suspect the AD and school likely stepped in and forced Coach K to do something. If he can make it exactly one game, you know he will. The reality is... they'll be forced to take their lumps against V-Tech and will play without him. After that it is GTech and BC... which equate to meaningless games... so really a 3 game suspension will basically be one.

You know what would make me respect Coach K... how about suspending 10 games, requiring him to get counseling... and barring him from all practices and team functions. THAT would garner respect. Not an open ended we can get him back whenever we want or need him garbage like he is doing right now. He should be caring about the kid and getting him help... not worrying about Ws... he's had enough of those in his life that potentially sacrificing a few for the sake of one of his players would be far more noble.

+1

CDC84
12-22-2016, 09:09 AM
Imagine if some kid blew out an ACL due to his tripping habit........

It's scary to think about. In some ways it's worse than a guy who swings his elbows after rebounds or when he's trying to make an offensive move while under defensive pressure.

whatazag
12-22-2016, 09:19 AM
The great thing about being Duke is they could suspend him the whole ACC if they wanted, and when it came time for seeding, all of their loses wouldn't count in the eyes of the committee.

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 09:22 AM
Disagree, Jazz. He needs to figure out how to use his talent and interact normally with others.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Thats the point. For whatever reason, he is not able to do that, interact in a normal way, and he needs professional help to learn to do so.

RenoZag
12-22-2016, 09:31 AM
Thats the point. For whatever reason, he is not able to do that, interact in a normal way, and he needs professional help to learn to do so.

Allen may be bi-polar. . .his behavior hints at it. It could be a lot of things we aren't privvy to (nor should we be). I concur with you, jazz, he needs help to get whatever demons he's battling under control.

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 09:34 AM
Allen may be bi-polar. . .his behavior hints at it. It could be a lot of things we aren't privvy to (nor should we be). I concur with you, jazz, he needs help to get whatever demons he's battling under control.

Thank you, Reno. Not a laughing matter at all.....

SWZag
12-22-2016, 09:40 AM
Good move. Coach K shows leadership and why he is who he is

There is nothing about Coach K that is respectable. There must have been something externally that forced his hand. I don't give him any credit for the suspension, because he wouldn't have done it on his own, I guarantee it.

The next four Duke games:
@ Virginia Tech (10-1)
vs Georgia Tech (6-4)
vs Boston College (6-6)
@ Florida St. (12-1)

MontanaCoyote
12-22-2016, 09:47 AM
Thank you, Reno. Not a laughing matter at all.....

Right! I think the kid does need help. A suspension is in order. I posted that last night. Whatever "indefinitely" means, and
assuming he returns at some point, it MUST be with the mutual understanding that if he ever commits another intentional
"Crime" again his playing days at Duke are over. If ever there was a time for tough love, this is it!

CDC84
12-22-2016, 09:52 AM
Allen may be bi-polar. . .his behavior hints at it. It could be a lot of things we aren't privvy to (nor should we be). I concur with you, jazz, he needs help to get whatever demons he's battling under control.

Substance abuse might also be a possibility. Some folks would be surprised how well athletes can hide it. I personally think the "indefinite" nature of the suspension suggests that Duke believes this isn't, primarily, a disciplinary matter. On the contrary, they feel or KNOW that something serious is happening with Allen behind the scenes.

The bottom line is whatever you believe, he desperately needs time away from the game.....both for himself and opponents.

Zagricultural
12-22-2016, 09:57 AM
Hmmm, last night he said that Allen apologized, and that was good enough for him. What made him change his mind?

He was definitely annoyed by people asking him if he will be suspended. IMO he only acted because it went viral and he had no choice. He sure didn't seem to care during the game.

Ezag
12-22-2016, 10:04 AM
Suspend him for the season. This is the third time in the past year. 3x too many, unacceptable.

zagfan24
12-22-2016, 10:07 AM
Yes, he's a hothead with clear emotional control issues. Yes, he could hurt somebody seriously. And Yes, he should be suspended for a long time.

But, yeesh, can we please hold off with armchair diagnoses? I'm all for basketball speculation, but suggesting a diagnosis as serious as bipolar because of a few incidents on the court where he looks like a jerk who can't control his emotions is a HUGE leap and one that serves to actually downplay the seriousness of those mental health conditions. Just my opinion...

Robzagnut
12-22-2016, 10:18 AM
There is nothing about Coach K that is respectable. There must have been something externally that forced his hand. I don't give him any credit for the suspension, because he wouldn't have done it on his own, I guarantee it.


And you know this how? You know Coach K and are closely associated with Duke basketball?

I don't think anyone wants to make a snap decision. It's always good to wait and then make a decision after weighing all options. As Coach Few did concerning Josh Heytvelt.

MDABE80
12-22-2016, 10:26 AM
Cure: Jack him in the jaw. Then grab some urine and blood for analysis. Off to counseling with him. Suspend him for fully 1 month off depending on how his counseling goes. Continue counseling .
Solution number 1 often does wonders. Of course the PC types wouldn't agree with it but ...........

MDABE80
12-22-2016, 10:31 AM
Hmmm, last night he said that Allen apologized, and that was good enough for him. What made him change his mind?

Lawyers talked to him about liability. Something must ostensibly be done. Can't let an apparent mad man loose after this. OR the University would be on the hook.

DixieZag
12-22-2016, 10:32 AM
I can't nor won't heap any praise on Coach K. Give the kid a break after the first one last year... I'm OK with that. Instead, you get an enabled GA who thinks he can get away with it... so he does it again. Coach K... whom some are praising here... does basically nothing. So why heap praise on him now when, from what I can tell, he was about to let him off the hook again last night because he apologized? Instead, I suspect the AD and school likely stepped in and forced Coach K to do something. If he can make it exactly one game, you know he will. The reality is... they'll be forced to take their lumps against V-Tech and will play without him. After that it is GTech and BC... which equate to meaningless games... so really a 3 game suspension will basically be one.

You know what would make me respect Coach K... how about suspending 10 games, requiring him to get counseling... and barring him from all practices and team functions. THAT would garner respect. Not an open ended we can get him back whenever we want or need him garbage like he is doing right now. He should be caring about the kid and getting him help... not worrying about Ws... he's had enough of those in his life that potentially sacrificing a few for the sake of one of his players would be far more noble.

Here's what I'd respect and expect, if I were in administration there:

"GA has emotional-psychological issues, akin to any medical injury, ones he needs help working through. The university will get him that help with a 3rd party professional and expect GA to use it to his greatest ability with the full support of the Duke community. The university will reinstate him as a player after being cleared by the professional in the same manner done with medical injuries. There will be no further comment or information by Duke University until GA is reinstated."

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 10:36 AM
Here's what I'd respect and expect, if I were in administration there:

"GA has emotional-psychological issues, akin to any medical injury, ones he needs help working through. The university will get him that help with a 3rd party professional and expect GA to use it to his greatest ability with the full support of the Duke community. The university will reinstate him as a player after being cleared by the professional in the same manner done with medical injuries. There will be no further comment or information by Duke University until GA is reinstated."

Spot on, Dix.

TexasZagFan
12-22-2016, 10:36 AM
Lawyers talked to him about liability. Something must ostensibly be done. Can't let an apparent mad man loose after this. OR the University would be on the hook.

No doubt Abe, the checks are still going out to their Lacrosse team. ;)

TexasZagFan
12-22-2016, 10:40 AM
Here's what I'd respect and expect, if I were in administration there:

"GA has emotional-psychological issues, akin to any medical injury, ones he needs help working through. The university will get him that help with a 3rd party professional and expect GA to use it to his greatest ability with the full support of the Duke community. The university will reinstate him as a player after being cleared by the professional in the same manner done with medical injuries. There will be no further comment or information by Duke University until GA is reinstated."

IMO, that would create far more questions, the media would go crazy and hound Coach K. The talking head shows on Fox and ESPN would have daily segments, ratings would soar. For every die hard Dukie out there, there's at least two that despise Duke.

Not me, though, my reservoir of ire is filled by BYU. :lmao:

Zagceo
12-22-2016, 10:40 AM
Yes, he's a hothead with clear emotional control issues. Yes, he could hurt somebody seriously. And Yes, he should be suspended for a long time.

But, yeesh, can we please hold off with armchair diagnoses? I'm all for basketball speculation, but suggesting a diagnosis as serious as bipolar because of a few incidents on the court where he looks like a jerk who can't control his emotions is a HUGE leap and one that serves to actually downplay the seriousness of those mental health conditions. Just my opinion...

and potential substance abuse.

Let's all assume GA is a relative and react accordingly. TMZ/guboards yeesh

CDC84
12-22-2016, 10:43 AM
It's not just his on the court behavior, but mainly his off the court behavior. His behavior after he got pulled from the game (especially) and at the presser was disturbing. Something was off.

I have no idea if something is seriously wrong with him, but I don't think it is something that can be ruled out. Suggesting that mental illness or substance abuse could be an issue is reasonable. It isn't National Enquirer work. I'm just saying that people need to think about this before they just call him a jerk or whatever. I wouldn't say this if I had not witnessed the off the court behavior last night.

Not that he doesn't deserve to be punished for his tripping behavior...regardless of the reason why he is doing it.

TexasZagFan
12-22-2016, 10:43 AM
and potential substance abuse.

Let's all assume GA is a relative and react accordingly. TMZ/guboards yeesh

You just made my point. Social media makes paparazzi look reasonable, and those are the guys that killed Princess Diana. Let's not do the same thing to GA.

Zagceo
12-22-2016, 10:45 AM
It's not just his on the court behavior, but mainly his off the court behavior. His behavior after he got pulled from the game (especially) and at the presser was disturbing. It wasn't an acting job or an act of contrition.

I have no idea if something is seriously wrong with him, but I don't think it is something that can be ruled out. Suggesting that mental illness or substance abuse could be an issue is reasonable. It isn't National Enquirer work.

Deep and wide rabbit hole....that one is on internet forum

coolhandzag
12-22-2016, 10:54 AM
Thats the point. For whatever reason, he is not able to do that, interact in a normal way, and he needs professional help to learn to do so.

I had a relative whose behavior paralleled GA's. It's a tough spot to be in from any angle. I believe that Duke has the resources to provide help, and I hope that it happens.

CDC84
12-22-2016, 10:58 AM
I'm failing to see how suggesting that someone might have a mental health issue as opposed to being a jerk as an explanation for his behavior is somehow a bad thing. If anything, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, but whatever......

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 11:03 AM
I'm failing to see how suggesting that someone might have a mental health issue as opposed to being a jerk as an explanation for his behavior is somehow a bad thing. If anything, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, but whatever......

CD, I think we are all grappling with this situation....watching GA on the bench was very uncomfortable for me, hence my comment early on that this isn't a Draymond Green thing -- playing to the crowd, all the while smirking -- its a serious problem. Seems like overwhelmingly the board is coming down on the side of less punitive and more therapeutic.....

ProVeeZag
12-22-2016, 11:07 AM
Just watched the Grayson Allen "trip" video again. There's more to the incident than just the trip. Watch Allen's arm and hand movements after the trip occurs. What does it look like to you? It looks to me like he wants to continue his assault on the Elon player. Grayson Allen needs serious help.

kitzbuel
12-22-2016, 11:13 AM
Thats the point. For whatever reason, he is not able to do that, interact in a normal way, and he needs professional help to learn to do so.
Jazz, at some point he needs to make a reasonable decision on his own and take the steps needed to learn how to interact. If he doesn't own up to his role in this he risks being sidelined or worse. Manzel never could do that.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

GoZags
12-22-2016, 11:19 AM
After watching this short video clip of the tantrum on twitter, I deleted the "Karate Kid" meme I'd posted earlier (and fiddy's quote of the pic). Just didn't seem funny to me anymore, as the kid does seem to have problems ... and I hope he gets help.

https://twitter.com/patmuldowney/status/811999048748019712

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 11:27 AM
Jazz, at some point he needs to make a reasonable decision on his own and take the steps needed to learn how to interact. If he doesn't own up to his role in this he risks being sidelined or worse. Manzel never could do that.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Kitz, thats all part of the therapy he seems to so desperately need.....but now Im conjecturing......GoZags just put the final point on the situation.

TexasZagFan
12-22-2016, 11:42 AM
Kitz, thats all part of the therapy he seems to so desperately need.....but now Im conjecturing......GoZags just put the final point on the situation.

The Duke fans that jumped to their feet when GA reentered the game in the second half could use some counseling themselves.

CDC84
12-22-2016, 11:47 AM
I know. Homerism at its worst.

ZenZag
12-22-2016, 01:08 PM
If this is a mental health issue, and I agree it may well be, then you would have to assume that the coaching staff knows about it and has been witness to it growing worse over time. If it is a mental health issue, then it doesn't just appear out of nowhere in isolated situations....they would have had to see other manifestations over time. If that is the case, they should have already known that he is a danger to others on the court and should have already taken steps to help him and take him away from the game for a time. If they truly care about the person, and not just the player. My opinion.

strikenowhere
12-22-2016, 01:22 PM
Weren't the Zags recruiting him for a while? Looks like a bullet was dodged.

zagdontzig
12-22-2016, 01:30 PM
Weren't the Zags recruiting him for a while? Looks like a bullet was dodged.

We would take him in a heartbeat, including the emotional issues the armchair GU Boards Psychologists have diagnosed him with.

thespywhozaggedme
12-22-2016, 01:31 PM
We would take him in a heartbeat, including the emotional issues the armchair GU Boards Psychologists have diagnosed him with.

uh....no, but yes, we were recruiting him hard outta Jacksonville, but then his Duke offer game and we dodge a major bullet.

zagdontzig
12-22-2016, 01:36 PM
uh....no, but yes, we were recruiting him hard outta Jacksonville, but then his Duke offer game and we dodge a major bullet.

y'all are delusional if you think there's a single program in this country that wouldn't be banging down his door if he announced he was transferring.

zagfan24
12-22-2016, 01:48 PM
I'm failing to see how suggesting that someone might have a mental health issue as opposed to being a jerk as an explanation for his behavior is somehow a bad thing. If anything, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, but whatever......

Probably splitting hairs, but in my mind there is a big difference between suggesting that he might have a mental health issue and completely speculating about a specific mental health diagnosis, especially one as serious as Bipolar Disorder - particularly when none of his observable behaviors even come close to meeting criteria for BPD. It's the difference between wondering aloud whether a player is ill and suggesting that he has cancer. When GU players get in trouble, most of us are quick to point out that they are human and young humans at that. While it's quite clear that GA has some things to work through, I just don't see the benefit in throwing out specific guesses (which is really all they are) about what the exact cause of his behaviors are.

MDABE80
12-22-2016, 01:53 PM
Maybe he's just an ahole who hasn't been confronted about his behavior. Take it face value. A lot more aholes in the world ..especially at this level of high end competitive college ball for Duke........than there are mental cases.
Somebody's going to call this some for of mental disease because it's just SO unusual. Seriously who has such a tripping record outside of the SMC mouthpiece? None known.

He could use some "re-education" though. His "privilege" is over when it comes to the court.

titopoet
12-22-2016, 01:57 PM
Here's what I'd respect and expect, if I were in administration there:

"GA has emotional-psychological issues, akin to any medical injury, ones he needs help working through. The university will get him that help with a 3rd party professional and expect GA to use it to his greatest ability with the full support of the Duke community. The university will reinstate him as a player after being cleared by the professional in the same manner done with medical injuries. There will be no further comment or information by Duke University until GA is reinstated."

Except, he is a Junior. The anger problems will have already be made present in practice and dealing with him on daily basis. Coach K must have already seen it but not wanted to see it. It looks like K acted before the ACC did as a preemptive measure to prevent further damage to his team. I am sure GA will get some much needed intervention, but if it wasn't for GA displaying it on national TV for the third time, would he have gotten it? Not as long as Duke was winning. K needs to feel shame not be praised. Problems like these are not ones that just pop up. K knew and K didn't care.

DixieZag
12-22-2016, 02:02 PM
IMO, that would create far more questions, the media would go crazy and hound Coach K. The talking head shows on Fox and ESPN would have daily segments, ratings would soar. For every die hard Dukie out there, there's at least two that despise Duke.

Not me, though, my reservoir of ire is filled by BYU. :lmao:

Making a statement that he has a problem requiring professional help and will not be playing BB until he gets that help, happens to be the right answer even if it did "create questions, the media would go crazy..." which I don't think is true, either.

If I am Duke University, my goal is to keep opposing players safe, GA himself safe (he could destroy himself personally and professionally), and the University's integrity and reputation safe. My goal is not to keep Coach K from being hounded or keep the media quiet.

zagzilla
12-22-2016, 02:27 PM
Kudos to Duke for taking this seriously.

So different from BYU where Dave Rose did nothing and left it up to the WCC to suspend Nick Emery for 1 game for sucker punching a Utah player a year ago. That kid should have been dismissed from the program.

Also recall, Ului Lapuaho, the BYU football player last season who punched a Boise St player in the junk and was not suspended at all.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25301911/byu-wont-suspend-lineman-who-threw-punch-below-the-belt

BYU puts on a moral facade but tolerates dangerous and unsportsmanlike behavior from its student athletes. There are many more examples-Bronson Kafusi, Harvey Langi, ...

Coach K handling this well, IMO.

ZZ

MontanaCoyote
12-22-2016, 04:10 PM
Made national news on major news network. Trips clearly shown. A dirty player who's getting what he deserves. Still hope he gets the help he needs.

Robzagnut
12-22-2016, 04:10 PM
Probably splitting hairs, but in my mind there is a big difference between suggesting that he might have a mental health issue and completely speculating about a specific mental health diagnosis, especially one as serious as Bipolar Disorder - particularly when none of his observable behaviors even come close to meeting criteria for BPD. It's the difference between wondering aloud whether a player is ill and suggesting that he has cancer. When GU players get in trouble, most of us are quick to point out that they are human and young humans at that. While it's quite clear that GA has some things to work through, I just don't see the benefit in throwing out specific guesses (which is really all they are) about what the exact cause of his behaviors are.

I agree.

I have to wonder if he's one of those super ultra competitive types that sees red and just reacts in the worst way at certain moments? Did he have any past history of doing this in high school or AAU? Or is it something new?

Zagricultural
12-22-2016, 04:36 PM
After watching this short video clip of the tantrum on twitter, I deleted the "Karate Kid" meme I'd posted earlier (and fiddy's quote of the pic). Just didn't seem funny to me anymore, as the kid does seem to have problems ... and I hope he gets help.

https://twitter.com/patmuldowney/status/811999048748019712

That is why I am in disbelief people are defending Coach K. He definitely should not have come back into the game last night...

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-22-2016, 04:52 PM
Kid needs professional help.

I agree with you Jazz. As much as I liked calling him the Mad Tripper after seeing the highlights, now I just feel sorry for the kid. His meltdown on the bench was something much more alarming than an immature kid having a tantrum because things aren't aren't going his way. After watching the replay of him on the bench, it seemed like a bigger mental health kind of issue...not just another Dukie player I don't like kind of thing.

Ezag
12-22-2016, 05:06 PM
Why does everything have to be because of a mental condition? Maybe he really is just super aggressive, reckless or just a plain bad sport a-hole.

coolhandzag
12-22-2016, 05:51 PM
Why does everything have to be because of a mental condition? Maybe he really is just super aggressive, reckless or just a plain bad sport a-hole.

...because his reaction on the beach on reflective of something more then just a reaction. I could be wrong I'm not a psychologist, or professional in the mental / emotional health field, but I did spend my entire formative life living with someone who suffered form emotional / mental illness. It gives me a little insight. You think GA is simply a poor sport......you could be right. I hope you are. Then again maybe being "super aggressive / reckless" might be reflective of something else in this case.

strikenowhere
12-22-2016, 05:58 PM
Why does everything have to be because of a mental condition? Maybe he really is just super aggressive, reckless or just a plain bad sport a-hole.

Because normal people don't behave like that.

MTZag03
12-22-2016, 06:11 PM
I said after the incident in a post last night that the fact that he did this in a game vs. Elon speaks volumes. One of the other tripping incidents happened against Louisville last season - a game where I can see someone trying to get an illegal competitive advantage. Duke, in theory, should be able to beat Elon with their hands tied behind their back. As others have suggested, his extreme emotional reactions after the game really suggest that he could possibly have some underlying mental health/emotional problems. I really hope that during this time off that Duke looks into whether something is troubling the kid psychiatrically. I'm serious about this. That's more important than basketball right now.

I agree wholeheartedly. We don't need to pile on the kid, and can reserve some criticism for the coach, but he's got some antisocial behaviors and yeah he should be helped.

Zag365
12-22-2016, 06:18 PM
The video is grainy/amateurish but shows that GA has long history of purposely trying to injure opponents (and others have noticed). Surprised it took this long to become a national story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAbYVoWyE8o

CDC84
12-22-2016, 06:19 PM
I felt Coach K was a little bit arrogant in his press conference last night. How he's not going to allow other people to influence his decision on how to penalize GA and all that. As great as he is, and as much as I respect him for what he has done for Team USA basketball, he has a tendency at times to be arrogant and have it come back to bite him. Like the whole thing with Coach K lecturing Dillon Brooks after the Duke/Oregon NCAA tourney game. It wasn't his place to lecture an opposing player on basketball decorum, but as Lord K, he felt he had the right to. When he was rightly criticized for it, he had to apologize.

CDC84
12-22-2016, 06:54 PM
FWIW - Matt Norlander at CBS Sports thinks that after three games, Grayson will be back.

jazzdelmar
12-22-2016, 06:58 PM
The video is grainy/amateurish but shows that GA has long history of purposely trying to injure opponents (and others have noticed). Surprised it took this long to become a national story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAbYVoWyE8o

'Purposely' a stretch in some of these incidents.

CDC84
12-22-2016, 07:27 PM
Pat Forde weighs in:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/now-that-grayson-allen-is-sitting-coach-k-needs-to-keep-him-there-awhile-161541774.html

bballbeachbum
12-22-2016, 07:29 PM
I felt Coach K was a little bit arrogant in his press conference last night. How he's not going to allow other people to influence his decision on how to penalize GA and all that. As great as he is, and as much as I respect him for what he has done for Team USA basketball, he has a tendency at times to be arrogant and have it come back to bite him. Like the whole thing with Coach K lecturing Dillon Brooks after the Duke/Oregon NCAA tourney game. It wasn't his place to lecture an opposing player on basketball decorum, but as Lord K, he felt he had the right to. When he was rightly criticized for it, he had to apologize.

well said

ProVeeZag
12-22-2016, 09:15 PM
Maybe someone can help answer this: I recall a player intentionally tripping a referee, possibly last year or 2. Can anyone fill in the details on who this was? I seem to recall that it was a high-profile program. Thx!

ProVeeZag
12-22-2016, 09:25 PM
Maybe someone can help answer this: I recall a player intentionally tripping a referee, possibly last year or 2. Can anyone fill in the details on who this was? I seem to recall that it was a high-profile program. Thx!

Never mind, I found it: Player was Jarmal Reid of Oregon State back in January of this year.

You may resume normal programming!

Coach Crazy
12-23-2016, 02:55 AM
Kudos to Duke for taking this seriously.

So different from BYU where Dave Rose did nothing and left it up to the WCC to suspend Nick Emery for 1 game for sucker punching a Utah player a year ago. That kid should have been dismissed from the program.

Also recall, Ului Lapuaho, the BYU football player last season who punched a Boise St player in the junk and was not suspended at all.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25301911/byu-wont-suspend-lineman-who-threw-punch-below-the-belt

BYU puts on a moral facade but tolerates dangerous and unsportsmanlike behavior from its student athletes. There are many more examples-Bronson Kafusi, Harvey Langi, ...

Coach K handling this well, IMO.

ZZ

I actually don't really have a problem with Lapuaho. That Boise State player was well beyond necessary action and it was time to chill out.

The Boise State kid was fortunate it was not harder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CDC84
12-23-2016, 09:31 AM
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out now
He was a game tripper, a one way fouler yeah
It didn't take me so long to find out, and I found out

ProVeeZag
12-23-2016, 10:12 AM
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out now
He was a game tripper, a one way fouler yeah
It didn't take me so long to find out, and I found out

I'm sure Coach K and staff don't want intrusions from outside, saying "We Can Work It Out".

(With attributions to John Lennon and Paul McCartney)

MontanaCoyote
12-23-2016, 10:14 AM
Pat Forde weighs in:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/now-that-grayson-allen-is-sitting-coach-k-needs-to-keep-him-there-awhile-161541774.html

I agree with Forde who's making the case for a pretty long suspension. I also think it should and must be made clear to
Allen that if he ever goes bush again he's done and gone at Duke. I'm saying, pay it forward, no if's, and's or but's.

kitzbuel
12-23-2016, 10:28 AM
Making a statement that he has a problem requiring professional help and will not be playing BB until he gets that help, happens to be the right answer even if it did "create questions, the media would go crazy..." which I don't think is true, either.

If I am Duke University, my goal is to keep opposing players safe, GA himself safe (he could destroy himself personally and professionally), and the University's integrity and reputation safe. My goal is not to keep Coach K from being hounded or keep the media quiet.
Duke University's top goal is to protect Duke University. Everything else is secondary, everything.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

jazzdelmar
12-23-2016, 10:40 AM
Duke University's top goal is to protect Duke University.

Duke University's top goal is to protect Duke University.

Duke University's top goal is to protect Duke University. Everything else is secondary, everything.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

And this differs from every other institution in the US how? Trust me, been there......

Seattle Hoo
12-23-2016, 11:03 AM
'Purposely' a stretch in some of these incidents.

He is a master at the plausible deniability. Some of his incidents fit the "just lost it in frustration" theme, but others are coldly calculated. Some never draw attention because they are ineffective, like when he tried to trip Malcolm Brogdon on a drive and Brogdon basically just shrugged him off. Point is it is a much deeper pattern than just "three trips" as portrayed. Those are just the most glaring, unmistakeable examples.

Mantua
12-23-2016, 11:08 AM
He is a master at the plausible deniability. Some of his incidents fit the "just lost it in frustration" theme, but others are coldly calculated. Some never draw attention because they are ineffective, like when he tried to trip Malcolm Brogdon on a drive and Brogdon basically just shrugged him off. Point is it is a much deeper pattern than just "three trips" as portrayed. Those are just the most glaring, unmistakeable examples.

So the speculation ranges from bad childhood to brain chemistry imbalance.

Speaking of deniability, Coach K stated that he didn't see the foul at the time and didn't notice Allen's behavior on the bench. He claims that he didn't truly understand what had occurred until viewing the tape after the game.

For all of the talk about helping GA and the minimizing of the three glaring incidents by some in the media, I find myself wondering if Allen can last at Duke for the remainder of the school year.

Kong-Kool-Aid
12-23-2016, 11:19 AM
Coach K is no Bob Stoops

Zagsker
12-23-2016, 11:41 AM
Yes, he's a hothead with clear emotional control issues. Yes, he could hurt somebody seriously. And Yes, he should be suspended for a long time.

But, yeesh, can we please hold off with armchair diagnoses? I'm all for basketball speculation, but suggesting a diagnosis as serious as bipolar because of a few incidents on the court where he looks like a jerk who can't control his emotions is a HUGE leap and one that serves to actually downplay the seriousness of those mental health conditions. Just my opinion...

Thank you...reading some of the responses in this is both hilarious and just flat out odd

Zagsker
12-23-2016, 11:43 AM
y'all are delusional if you think there's a single program in this country that wouldn't be banging down his door if he announced he was transferring.

Exactly..the elitism of some GU fans is nauseating

JPtheBeasta
12-23-2016, 02:27 PM
I thought that Grayson might just have contracted Duke-osis.

Postulating some kind of mental health diagnosis in a way is charitable and at least tries to give the kid the benefit of the doubt that he's not just a Class 1 A-hole.

zagdontzig
12-23-2016, 03:53 PM
I thought that Grayson might just have contracted Duke-osis.

Postulating some kind of mental health diagnosis in a way is charitable and at least tries to give the kid the benefit of the doubt that he's not just a Class 1 A-hole.

It doesn't strike me that Grayson Allen gives a damn what we think. He works hard every practice, he competes hard every possession, against every opponent, whether that's UNC or Elon, and he wants to win. You forget his incredible work-ethic, talent, and career trajectory because you hate Duke, and you saw him boil over when he got frustrated that he wasn't competing like he wanted to. Sour grapes that we didn't have a chance at recruiting him, and post-hoc conceit when the kid has things he needs to work on.

Keep talking, he'll keep winning.

DixieZag
12-23-2016, 04:27 PM
Duke University's top goal is to protect Duke University.

Duke University's top goal is to protect Duke University.

Duke University's top goal is to protect Duke University. Everything else is secondary, everything.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

The best way to protect Duke University is to get the decision-making out of their hands and get any possible future incident to not come back on them. Involving a 3rd party is the logical choice and one that might help GA, so - I'm not necessarily disagreeing at all.

RenoZag
12-23-2016, 06:56 PM
I thought that Grayson might just have contracted Duke-osis.

Postulating some kind of mental health diagnosis in a way is charitable and at least tries to give the kid the benefit of the doubt that he's not just a Class 1 A-hole.

You've convinced me. I retract my speculation

jazzdelmar
12-23-2016, 06:58 PM
The best way to protect Duke University is to get the decision-making out of their hands and get any possible future incident to not come back on them. Involving a 3rd party is the logical choice and one that might help GA, so - I'm not necessarily disagreeing at all.

You mean like Louie Freeh?

JPtheBeasta
12-23-2016, 08:56 PM
You've convinced me. I retract my speculation

I was mostly making a joke in perhaps an overly-crass way. I do wonder if Christian Laetner is uncorking a champagne bottle somewhere and celebrating a successfully passed torch, though.

sittingon50
12-23-2016, 09:13 PM
I'm not sure Laetner can afford a bottle of champagne.

Zagceo
12-23-2016, 09:17 PM
I'm not sure Laetner can afford a bottle of champagne.

Haters gotta hate

gobroncsgozags
12-24-2016, 01:12 AM
I actually don't really have a problem with Lapuaho. That Boise State player was well beyond necessary action and it was time to chill out.

The Boise State kid was fortunate it was not harder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you talking about? You don't have a problem with a player punching another player... anywhere? You are out in left field on this one.

Coach Crazy
12-24-2016, 02:08 AM
What are you talking about? You don't have a problem with a player punching another player... anywhere? You are out in left field on this one.

If a player wants to play well beyond the play being over, at that point, I have no problem with the other player (within a certain limit) providing motivation for the unnecessary effort to cease. It would be nice if refs would be able to step in and provide the appropriate resolution, but as a coach I don't have the best faith in refs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sittingon50
12-24-2016, 10:47 AM
Haters gotta hate

Whiff.

SWZag
12-24-2016, 10:59 AM
The video is grainy/amateurish but shows that GA has long history of purposely trying to injure opponents (and others have noticed). Surprised it took this long to become a national story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAbYVoWyE8o



'Purposely' a stretch in some of these incidents.

But with all the "purposely" things that are obvious, it's hard to argue that any of them aren't on purpose.

SWZag
12-24-2016, 11:04 AM
y'all are delusional if you think there's a single program in this country that wouldn't be banging down his door if he announced he was transferring.
I disagree. Some programs understand team chemistry, other's don't. The "other's don't" category would be opening the door. I think Few and Co are much smarter than just taking anyone. Look at their history of players and tell me they put talent above character. Character is a huge part of the success of GU. I can guarantee that if Morrison was tripping people, he wouldn't have been on the court. If any other player did something similar, they wouldn't be on the court. Greyson fits in at Duke, that's how Duke runs their program. He wouldn't fit in at GU and the coaches know better.

zagdontzig
12-25-2016, 10:19 AM
I disagree. Some programs understand team chemistry, other's don't. The "other's don't" category would be opening the door. I think Few and Co are much smarter than just taking anyone. Look at their history of players and tell me they put talent above character. Character is a huge part of the success of GU. I can guarantee that if Morrison was tripping people, he wouldn't have been on the court. If any other player did something similar, they wouldn't be on the court. Greyson fits in at Duke, that's how Duke runs their program. He wouldn't fit in at GU and the coaches know better.

1. Duke understands team chemistry. The rings prove that.
2. Y'all questioning Grayson's character because he has childish tantrums is why you're wrong. It's not a deep character flaw, it's maturity in managing what is otherwise an insatiable drive to compete.
3. Morrison was, by all accounts, a super awkward guy. I'm sure he had chemistry with some guys but he was no Mike Hart.

As far as character being a huge part of success at GU, I agree, but that doesn't mean we don't take troubled kids. Perfect example is Eric McClellan. It's ridiculous that a bunch of middle-aged guys get on a board and tear apart a kid who does nothing but dedicate himself to hard work and competition for his coach, then preach about character. Ivory towers, all of you.

SWZag
12-25-2016, 02:43 PM
1. Duke understands team chemistry. The rings prove that.
2. Y'all questioning Grayson's character because he has childish tantrums is why you're wrong. It's not a deep character flaw, it's maturity in managing what is otherwise an insatiable drive to compete.
3. Morrison was, by all accounts, a super awkward guy. I'm sure he had chemistry with some guys but he was no Mike Hart.

As far as character being a huge part of success at GU, I agree, but that doesn't mean we don't take troubled kids. Perfect example is Eric McClellan. It's ridiculous that a bunch of middle-aged guys get on a board and tear apart a kid who does nothing but dedicate himself to hard work and competition for his coach, then preach about character. Ivory towers, all of you.

What is middle-aged? :) Eric is a perfect example, and that is 180 degrees from Greyson. Complete different ends of the spectrum.

Team chemistry isn't what comes to mind when I think of Duke. If Montana State had 5-Star recruits, they could do just as well as Duke. And coach K isn't a champion for team chemistry, unless you think of near verbal abuse as chemistry. There is a difference between awkwardness and "assault."

zagamatic
12-25-2016, 04:33 PM
Put simply, he is the type person who makes athletes have a bad reputation as a bully. I occasionally watch Duke games and I've rarely watched him go through an entire game without taking at least a little cheap shot on opponents. It's my humble opinion, but he should be banned from athletics in general at the college level and be immediately stripped of his scholarship.

TheOtherGreatOne
12-28-2016, 11:52 AM
Some of you people on here want allen to get help. I will say this,I hope gets to play in the nba, and trips Demarcus Cousins. When he does he will get all the help he needs. If you don't believe me just ask Marcus Smart. He hasn't been nearly the cheap shot artist since he tried it with Cousins and got body slammed.

ZagsGoZags
12-28-2016, 01:13 PM
zagdon,
most of your arguments could be used in defense of Latree Spreewell also,
many crimes of passion, really

LongIslandZagFan
12-28-2016, 01:49 PM
It doesn't strike me that Grayson Allen gives a damn what we think. He works hard every practice, he competes hard every possession, against every opponent, whether that's UNC or Elon, and he wants to win. You forget his incredible work-ethic, talent, and career trajectory because you hate Duke, and you saw him boil over when he got frustrated that he wasn't competing like he wanted to. Sour grapes that we didn't have a chance at recruiting him, and post-hoc conceit when the kid has things he needs to work on.

Keep talking, he'll keep winning.

????

Trying to physically harm someone isn't work-ethic... it isn't talent... it wasn't him being upset with himself... and it surely isn't sour grapes. He does it one time... yeah. Twice... three times... at that point I call BS on your analysis. He is committing what borders on a crime.

Jstock12
12-28-2016, 02:00 PM
The fact that he only got suspended (barely) after the 3rd time tells you everything you need to know about Duke's priorities as a program. Not a great look for them.

gonzagafan62
12-28-2016, 02:01 PM
????

Trying to physically harm someone isn't work-ethic... it isn't talent... it wasn't him being upset with himself... and it surely isn't sour grapes. He does it one time... yeah. Twice... three times... at that point I call BS on your analysis. He is committing what borders on a crime.

Exactly

MDABE80
12-28-2016, 03:16 PM
What if one of those "tripee's" had fallen with his temple hitting a knee or something akin. I really believe Grayson has been lucky something terrible hasn't happened.
Meanwhile thin how well Granson will do IF he comes back on the court at all? I wouldn't want to be in his shoes for all the nastiness that will occur. He may well have done himself in for college anyway. Pretty brutal stuff if you think of the implications. This latest event will not be shoved under the rug like before. Hate to say it but I suspect he's pretty much finished. Maybe he should be.

Hoopaholic
12-28-2016, 03:18 PM
????

Trying to physically harm someone isn't work-ethic... it isn't talent... it wasn't him being upset with himself... and it surely isn't sour grapes. He does it one time... yeah. Twice... three times... at that point I call BS on your analysis. He is committing what borders on a crime.

I remove the word "BORDERS".....it is a criminal act as it is assault as

1. it does not involve normal activity within the scope of the rules of the game
2. It is an unwanted physical touching
3. potential to harm or injure is apparent and present
4. done with malice
5. done without the permission of the receiver

ZagaZags
12-28-2016, 09:55 PM
I remove the word "BORDERS".....it is a criminal act as it is assault as

1. it does not involve normal activity within the scope of the rules of the game
2. It is an unwanted physical touching
3. potential to harm or injure is apparent and present
4. done with malice
5. done without the permission of the receiver

Should be called the Penn State rule.

RenoZag
12-28-2016, 10:09 PM
So is he an uber-competitive elite athlete who loses his cool in the heat of the moment ?

Or:

Is he dealing with some [unknown to us ] psychological demons that transform him from gritty competitor to cheap-shot artist ?

Or:

Is he just another Duke @s@hole ?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[add all of the sarcasm tags you want]

ProVeeZag
12-29-2016, 11:13 AM
So is he an uber-competitive elite athlete who loses his cool in the heat of the moment ?

Or:

Is he dealing with some [unknown to us ] psychological demons that transform him from gritty competitor to cheap-shot artist ?

Or:

Is he just another Duke @s@hole ?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[add all of the sarcasm tags you want]

I'll go with "D" All of the above.

TexasZagFan
12-29-2016, 11:16 AM
So is he an uber-competitive elite athlete who loses his cool in the heat of the moment ?

Or:

Is he dealing with some [unknown to us ] psychological demons that transform him from gritty competitor to cheap-shot artist ?

Or:

Is he just another Duke @s@hole ?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[add all of the sarcasm tags you want]

I choose "C".

Rangerzag
12-29-2016, 12:07 PM
Grayson Allen to undergo treatment for severe case of affluenza


“Grayson is one of those guys who has had a tougher upbringing that a lot of people understand,” said the coach. “He’s had everything from an early age, his parents had a lot of money, he never wanted for anything, and life has come easy to him. He struggles to relate to people who aren’t wealthy and good at sports. Lots of people think it’s only hard to grow up with nothing. That’s not true. I see kids battling affluenza every day here at Duke. It’s a real problem and we wish Grayson well in his fight.”


https://medium.com/sportspickle/grayson-allen-to-undergo-treatment-for-a-severe-case-of-affluenza-8db708f50488#.d0pli7xzp




Warning: Do not believe everything you read on the internet!

Zag365
12-29-2016, 12:09 PM
It's not part of the game. It's dangerous. It's wrong. And, it needs to stop.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=somebody+stop+me&&view=detail&mid=9E787F4424A3231137A69E787F4424A3231137A6&rvsmid=EF13B53CB9D438ACDC6AEF13B53CB9D438ACDC6A&fsscr=0&FORM=VDQVAP

Coach Crazy
12-29-2016, 01:33 PM
Best way to get a bully to stop is to apply a figurative or literal punch in the mouth/nose.

"Jordan Foul" the crap out of this guy. I would send an enforcer out after this kid until he either got the message, or it forced college basketball to address the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GrizZAG
12-29-2016, 02:15 PM
Rose would take him in a heartbeat.

jazzdelmar
12-31-2016, 07:26 AM
The biggest punk Fuke ever had was Austin Rivers, ejected along w dad Last night for the second time this month. Koach K kouldnt wait for that overrated punk to leave and dad can barely handle him w the Clippers

MileHigh
12-31-2016, 09:42 AM
The biggest punk Fuke ever had was Austin Rivers, ejected along w dad Last night for the second time this month. Koach K kouldnt wait for that overrated punk to leave and dad can barely handle him w the Clippers

Not a Rivers fan, but the ejection against the Rockets last night was ridiculous and the NBA will come out with a statement next week saying the ref screwed up.

As for the biggest ###### in Duke history, I would say GA has edged ahead of Christain Leatner (who had a 30 for 30 made about his douchieness) and A Rivers isnt even in the same zip code as those two Blue Devils

JPtheBeasta
12-31-2016, 10:30 AM
Best way to get a bully to stop is to apply a figurative or literal punch in the mouth/nose.

"Jordan Foul" the crap out of this guy. I would send an enforcer out after this kid until he either got the message, or it forced college basketball to address the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that is the FDA-approved treatment for affluenza.

RenoZag
12-31-2016, 11:53 AM
Rose would take him in a heartbeat.

In a Salt Lake City minute

ProVeeZag
12-31-2016, 12:49 PM
I think that is the FDA-approved treatment for affluenza.

Here we go with the "flu vaccine" thread again! :doh:

Affluenza? Oh the poor baby...Grayson now being portrayed as the victim. That's rich!

MDABE80
12-31-2016, 01:00 PM
I can't imagine him back on the floor this year. 3rd offense.. too risky. I can imagine ( because of liability) Duke will put him in some "self realization" program ( lol) . He just can't go out of the floor though. Think of what the crowd might do. It could get pretty nasty pretty quickly........I just think for Grayson's safety and for whatever other reason, he might be over for some time. Multifaceted decision.

seacatfan
12-31-2016, 01:33 PM
Not a Rivers fan, but the ejection against the Rockets last night was ridiculous and the NBA will come out with a statement next week saying the ref screwed up.

As for the biggest ###### in Duke history, I would say GA has edged ahead of Christain Leatner (who had a 30 for 30 made about his douchieness) and A Rivers isnt even in the same zip code as those two Blue Devils

Agreed, Duke has a long list of jerky players, Rivers barely a blip on the radar compared to some of the other pieces of work they've had there.

jazzdelmar
12-31-2016, 02:01 PM
Agreed, Duke has a long list of jerky players, Rivers barely a blip on the radar compared to some of the other pieces of work they've had there.

Jon Scheyer was cool but Billy McCaffery was a jerk too.

maynard g krebs
12-31-2016, 02:43 PM
Here we go with the "flu vaccine" thread again! :doh:

Affluenza? Oh the poor baby...Grayson now being portrayed as the victim. That's rich!

That was a parody.

bartruff1
12-31-2016, 02:45 PM
In a Salt Lake City minute

So would Few...and that would be good for him and great for us....Mark has no patience for nonsense..

gonzagafan62
12-31-2016, 03:01 PM
Here we go with the "flu vaccine" thread again! :doh:

Affluenza? Oh the poor baby...Grayson now being portrayed as the victim. That's rich!

It came with a warning lol

MDABE80
12-31-2016, 03:10 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/duke%E2%80%99s-allen-stripped-of-captaincy-after-tripping-suspension/ar-BBxLGqM

Zag_Dad
12-31-2016, 07:03 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/duke%E2%80%99s-allen-stripped-of-captaincy-after-tripping-suspension/ar-BBxLGqM

So Duke will lift the suspension and claim that stripping him of "captain" status is punishment enough?

SWZag
12-31-2016, 08:41 PM
I wouldn't be surprised! But it's not clear at the link if this is additional "punishment" or when he will return.

gonzagafan62
01-04-2017, 03:39 PM
Kudos to Coach K

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18331583/duke-blue-devils-suspend-grayson-allen-another-tripping-incident

Please take your kudos back. 1 game suspension. He's playing tonight. Absolutely pathetic by Duke

Once and Future Zag
01-04-2017, 04:11 PM
Please take your kudos back. 1 game suspension. He's playing tonight. Absolutely pathetic by Duke

Coach K's rep as some sort of moral authority is a joke.

He's a hell of a basketball coach, though.

jazzdelmar
01-04-2017, 04:12 PM
Coach K's rep as some sort of moral authority is a joke.

He's a hell of a basketball coach, though.

One can only imagine what would happen if he tripped yet again. Koach must be pretty confident it won't.

kitzbuel
01-04-2017, 04:13 PM
Please take your kudos back. 1 game suspension. He's playing tonight. Absolutely pathetic by Duke

Happily for Duke fans, Mr. Grayson's rehabilitation is complete after a strenuous, one game hiatus. Duke University counselors are unparalleled.

Once and Future Zag
01-04-2017, 04:13 PM
One can only imagine what would happen if he tripped yet again. Koach must be pretty confident it won't.

Nah, he'll just claim that Capel couldn't keep GA in line and on the straight and narrow like Coach K could if K was healthy.

He never misses a chance to spread his sanctimonious smarm.

CDC84
01-04-2017, 04:25 PM
I hope Grayson doesn't trip Coach K after back surgery........

seacatfan
01-04-2017, 04:31 PM
What a joke. So an indefinite suspension is one game. Yet another reason to hate Duke.

Ezag
01-04-2017, 04:38 PM
Oh, that Grayson....A trip off the old block!

jazzdelmar
01-04-2017, 04:58 PM
Since his theatrical outburst, Jay Wright has gotten every 50-50 call.

thespywhozaggedme
01-04-2017, 05:09 PM
Please take your kudos back. 1 game suspension. He's playing tonight. Absolutely pathetic by Duke

Yeah I was in the gym when my buddy told me the breaking news. As if I couldn't hate Duke anymore. What a joke!

Bogozags
01-04-2017, 05:15 PM
Since his theatrical outburst, Jay Wright has gotten every 50-50 call.

Jazz, once again college basketball is all about money and this proves the point...W/o Grayson, Duke is just a good team and more than likely would have lost one or two more games with him on the bench; however, Coach K could not tolerate anymore loses as it would eventually effect Duke's seeding in the NCAA Tournament.

This is a very sad note, almost as sad as UNC not going on probation for 20 years of academic cheating...

jazzdelmar
01-04-2017, 05:18 PM
What a phenomenal CBB game.

seacatfan
01-04-2017, 05:34 PM
What happened? Did this morph into the other games thread?

Anyway, theatrical outbursts are part of the game. Most coaches do it at times. Few should take lessons. The glare of death during the Tennessee game is about as theatrical as he gets, but he did somehow manage to draw a T just the same. Didn't really get his money's worth for a T though.

jazzdelmar
01-04-2017, 05:36 PM
Court stormed. Big east is best conference in CBB. Too bad Zags aren't part of it.

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-04-2017, 05:38 PM
I generally like Bilas as a commentator (and love him as an intelligent thorn in the side of the NCAA) but lost respect for him after he made the following comment during Duke vs Ga Tech game tonight:

" Personally I would have suspended him [Grayson Allen - the Mad Tripper] for more than one game, but a one game suspension is reasonable."

Come on Bilas, grow a pair!

Bogozags
01-04-2017, 05:47 PM
I generally like Bilas as a commentator (and love him as an intelligent thorn in the side of the NCAA) but lost respect for him after he made the following comment during Duke vs Ga Tech game tonight:

" Personally I would have suspended him [Grayson Allen - the Mad Tripper] for more than one game, but a one game suspension is reasonable."

Come on Bilas, grow a pair!

Flex, did you expect anything else from an ESPN announcer? It is all about marketing and if Coach K isn't on the bench and Grayson isn't playing and they lose that is a TV hit...IMO Blue Bloods will always do what is best for their program to make money and stay on top...IMO

Mantua
01-04-2017, 05:49 PM
Flex, did you expect anything else from an ESPN announcer? It is all about marketing and if Coach K isn't on the bench and Grayson isn't playing and they lose that is a TV hit...IMO Blue Bloods will always do what is best for their program to make money and stay on top...IMO


I know I'm tuning into Duke games just to see if Allen will trip somebody.

CDC84
01-04-2017, 06:19 PM
Why should I trust Jay Bilas' opinion on Allen and how long he should be suspended when Bilas is a Duke alum?

Wonder what will happen if he trips a player again? Season long suspension? 3 games? I doubt they would kick him out of the program.

thespywhozaggedme
01-04-2017, 06:35 PM
Court stormed. Big east is best conference in CBB. Too bad Zags aren't part of it.

Wrong thread. lol

Zagricultural
01-04-2017, 06:40 PM
Coach K and Duke are d-###'s. It was an indefinite suspension, because he knew from the beginning it was only going to be about winning. SMH...

CDC84
01-04-2017, 07:14 PM
Honestly, Duke didn't need Allen to beat Ga Tech tonight at home, which makes the decision to reinstate him so early that much more bizarre.

I read that Allen is no longer a team captain.

LongIslandZagFan
01-04-2017, 07:57 PM
One game. Do people here STILL respect Coach K? What a joke.

jpn17
01-04-2017, 08:45 PM
Court stormed. Big east is best conference in CBB. Too bad Zags aren't part of it.

Agreed. I know it's just beating a dead horse, but it sure would be fun to see Gonzaga playing the likes of: Villanova, Butler, Georgetown, Xavier and Marquette every year.

willandi
01-04-2017, 08:50 PM
One game. Do people here STILL respect Coach K? What a joke.

Did people HERE ever respect coach k?

ZagAddict
01-04-2017, 10:19 PM
Never thought it would be more than a one game (PR token) suspension. If Duke (I mean Coach K) was sincere about his actions, it would have been taken care of last year after the second obvious infraction. I've never had respect for Duke for being a moral institution. They are no different than the other blue bloods when it comes to basketball ethics. People shouldn't have expected any different.

kitzbuel
01-05-2017, 03:17 AM
Oh, that Grayson....A trip off the old block!
Ha ha

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

bartruff1
01-05-2017, 08:36 AM
Duke envy/hate has made the kid a scapegoat...if he played for some unranked team, it would have never made the headlines....

I think he is fine and will never trip anyone again...being humiliated by the entire sports media was more than enough punishment ..IMHO of course...

seacatfan
01-05-2017, 10:19 AM
If it was his first offense I would agree with you Bart. But this was the third time he's done it in about a year (spanning 2 seasons). I don't think public shaming is stopping him. It's not like the first 2 incidents didn't get any notice.

LongIslandZagFan
01-05-2017, 08:27 PM
Duke envy/hate has made the kid a scapegoat...if he played for some unranked team, it would have never made the headlines....

I think he is fine and will never trip anyone again...being humiliated by the entire sports media was more than enough punishment ..IMHO of course...

That is what they said when he did it the first and second time. Seriously... this isn't about hate or envy, it is about Duke doing the right thing... and they didn't.

seacatfan
01-07-2017, 04:58 PM
The tripper tried it AGAIN today, in merely the 2nd game back since his suspension was lifted. Yep, he really learned his lesson and Duke/Coach K handled the situation perfectly. Any more questions?

U Zig, I Zag
01-07-2017, 08:21 PM
Having fun looking over the ESPN and various Duke forums. A split among most of them. Half saying 'whatever, stop looking for trouble' and the, probably sane, folks saying the kid has issues.

How would you call it, as a fan?

Personally, I would say he sits/is out for the year. Coach K looks like a spineless ###### at this point. I would hope Few would address it with more backbone.

seacatfan
01-07-2017, 08:26 PM
There's no way a Zag would be a 3 time offender with the tripping plus whatever he did tonight. I think Few would cut ties with any player before it reached that point.

CDC84
01-07-2017, 08:32 PM
I'm worried that Grayson's tripping disorder might take out Coach K who just had back surgery.

Duke has had to deal with so many dang team distractions this year. Not just with Allen, but all of the player injuries, and now Coach K's surgery that will keep him out a month. They don't even know at this point what style of offense and what lineups they are going to use once everyone gets caught up to speed.

Say what you want about Allen and how Coach K has handled the situation, but for decent kids on that team like Amile Jefferson and Luke Kennard, they are probably sick of the whole thing. I kind of feel bad for them.

willandi
01-07-2017, 08:37 PM
I'm worried that Grayson's tripping disorder might take out Coach K who just had back surgery.

Duke has had to deal with so many dang team distractions this year. Not just with Allen, but all of the player injuries, and now Coach K's surgery that will keep him out a month. They don't even know at this point what style of offense and what lineups they are going to use once everyone gets caught up to speed.

Say what you want about Allen and how Coach K has handled the situation, but for decent kids on that team like Amile Jefferson and Luke Kennard, they are probably sick of the whole thing. I kind of feel bad for them.

Of course, Coach K has had ample opportunity to deal with it, and didn't. I have no sympathy for him. SHAME on coach K for refusing to properly coach, and teach, his student athletes.

gonzagafan62
01-07-2017, 08:40 PM
I would've kicked him off the team after second incident. There wouldn't have been a 3rd. Period

CDC84
01-07-2017, 08:48 PM
Of course, Coach K has had ample opportunity to deal with it, and didn't. I have no sympathy for him. SHAME on coach K for refusing to properly coach, and teach, his student athletes.

As stated in my post, I have sympathy for some of the other players on the team who have nothing to do with any of this and who have been playing their tails off despite all of the team distractions. I have been very vocal about my disapproval of the way Coach K has handled Grayson. I am still convinced there is something that is going on with that kid that we don't know about, and him playing is not the solution to getting to the bottom of it.

MontanaCoyote
01-07-2017, 08:54 PM
There's no way a Zag would be a 3 time offender with the tripping plus whatever he did tonight. I think Few would cut ties with any player before it reached that point.

Nailed It !!

kitzbuel
01-07-2017, 08:56 PM
I personally think it is hard to say. Gonzaga was willing to take risk with Eric McClellan. I am sure a lot of WCC fans used that as proof that GU would go to any length to win. However, it turned out to be a remarkable story and Eric is a valued member of the Zag family.

I think Grayson would probably have had a longer time out here at GU, but I think the staff would be committed to working with him. Hard to say, though because the dynamics here would be so different from Duke.

MontanaCoyote
01-07-2017, 08:57 PM
Does anyone out there know of a single case of a Zag "pulling a Grayson" ?

willandi
01-07-2017, 09:03 PM
I'm worried that Grayson's tripping disorder might take out Coach K who just had back surgery.


Where did I show sympathy for Coach K in my post? As stated in my post, I have sympathy for some of the other players on the team who have nothing to do with any of this and who have been playing their tails off despite all of the team distractions. I have been very vocal about my disapproval of the way Coach K has handled Grayson. I am still convinced there is something that is going on with that kid that we don't know about, and him playing is not the solution to getting to the bottom of it.

Sounded sympathetic to me. If not, sorry. If coach K gets taken out, so be it.

Rangerzag
01-07-2017, 09:06 PM
After the move he made today I predict he will not restrain himself from another similar move in the not too distant future.

It will be definite, obvious and without need for interpretation.

gobroncsgozags
01-07-2017, 09:13 PM
After the move he made today I predict he will not restrain himself from another similar move in the not too distant future.

It will be definite, obvious and without need for interpretation.


I agree. How can he not, with everything going on, manage to keep his feet on the ground? Something is wrong with that guy. If nothing else, he just isn't smart enough to figure out that he can't do anything that is open to interpretation.

seacatfan
01-07-2017, 09:16 PM
I wonder if he has a complete lack of impulse control. You know, like a 2 or 3 year old maybe. Agree, there is definitely something wrong with that guy.

azzagfan
01-07-2017, 09:23 PM
To be honest, I think the post seems a bit self-righteous to me. Did our point guard not have an incident that would be viewed as more serious than tripping an opponent (yes, even 3 times) and he was not suspended for a very long period? I think the whole thing has been blown a bit out of proportion.

Zagguy
01-07-2017, 09:28 PM
To be honest, I think the post seems a bit self-righteous to me. Did our point guard not have an incident that would be viewed as more serious than tripping an opponent (yes, even 3 times) and he was not suspended for a very long period? I think the whole thing has been blown a bit out of proportion.

Huh? Absolutely no comparison. As a grad of a Jesuit university I am in awe of your lack of logic.

azzagfan
01-07-2017, 09:35 PM
Huh? Absolutely no comparison. As a grad of a Jesuit university I am in awe of your lack of logic.

I'm not sure how there is no comparison. We all seem to believe that Gonzaga and Mark Few would be blameless in a similar situation, and I'm not sure we can state that to be true. I'm certain there are other WCC schools who looked at the Perkins situation and said something very similar about Gonzaga and Few that people are saying about Duke and Coach K. People are acting like Allen has committed aggravated assault. He's certainly going to be under scrutiny in every game he plays for the rest of college, and he's earned that without question, but I have a very hard time believing that Coach Few would kick a consensus preseason all-American and preseason Player of the Year off the team for a tripping incident that happens during competitive play.

azzagfan
01-07-2017, 09:41 PM
Huh? Absolutely no comparison. As a grad of a Jesuit university I am in awe of your lack of logic.

However, the "as a grad of a Jesuit university" phrase does continue with the overall self-righteous theme of the thread.

Worthington
01-07-2017, 09:55 PM
I'm not sure how there is no comparison. We all seem to believe that Gonzaga and Mark Few would be blameless in a similar situation, and I'm not sure we can state that to be true. I'm certain there are other WCC schools who looked at the Perkins situation and said something very similar about Gonzaga and Few that people are saying about Duke and Coach K. People are acting like Allen has committed aggravated assault. He's certainly going to be under scrutiny in every game he plays for the rest of college, and he's earned that without question, but I have a very hard time believing that Coach Few would kick a consensus preseason all-American and preseason Player of the Year off the team for a tripping incident that happens during competitive play.

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree.

Draymond Green has a habit of kicking people in the groin in the NBA and no one in their right mind at that level suggests he should be getting a year long suspension. Grayson Allen is a kid with really poor impulse control on the basketball court. I don't think he goes out there intending to hurt people, nor do I really think his actions have led to anybody coming that close to being seriously injured. Clearly a strong message should be sent to deter him from doing this, but kicking him off the team could potentially ruin his playing career and in no way do I think that is a proportionate response to his actions. These types of actions are usually treated with technicals, flagrant/unsportsmanlike fouls, and then finally incremental suspensions, not a hair trigger destruction of a kid's life who by all other accounts seems to be a fine young person.

Zagdawg
01-11-2017, 07:40 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/grayson-allen-has-yet-another-gray-area-moment/ar-BBy8JEU?li=BBnb7Kz

bartruff1
01-11-2017, 07:50 AM
Saint John Stockton is near universally described by his peers as the dirtiest player in the NBA during his career...

He is reported to have a net worth of 40 million .....:D..

kitzbuel
01-11-2017, 09:15 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/grayson-allen-has-yet-another-gray-area-moment/ar-BBy8JEU?li=BBnb7Kz

If I were flying out of bounds into someone on the other team like that I might well do the same thing. I would rather them eat it than me.

CDC84
01-11-2017, 10:54 AM
Apparently seconds after Grayson flew out of bounds last night, some kid took the video, did some Zapruder-like zoom thing to it, and put it up on twitter. Naturally, the tweet set off a firestorm before the game had even finished.

I am starting to get sick and tired of the Grayson Allen-watch. I mean, Duke put it upon themselves by putting him back out on the floor after one loss, but still, as a college basketball fan, I'm getting tired of it. Plays that happen all over the country every night are going to be scrutinized beyond all reason if Allen is involved. Every pick he fights through, every rebound he goes after, etc.

seacatfan
01-11-2017, 11:55 AM
Duke and Allen brought it on themselves, of course they are going to be scrutinized to the 9th degree. You can't expect otherwise. I don't have even a smidgen of sympathy for them.

CDC84
01-11-2017, 12:06 PM
I don't have sympathy either, but I feel as though the people who are being punished are college basketball fans who just want to watch the games and not be bothered with the nonsense. Maybe ESPN should create their own Grayson Allen tracker website. If you want the latest on every pick he goes through, every rebound he goes after, you can monitor the website.

JPtheBeasta
01-12-2017, 09:38 AM
If I were flying out of bounds into someone on the other team like that I might well do the same thing. I would rather them eat it than me.

It didn't look much like he was trying to soften the landing and looked more like he was trying to push the bench guy out of his way. If he thought that was the best way to avoid hurting himself, so be it. If a Zag did it I would 99.9% give him a pass on it. Grayson? It's admittedly a lot harder.

JPtheBeasta
01-14-2017, 11:31 AM
It didn't look much like he was trying to soften the landing and looked more like he was trying to push the bench guy out of his way. If he thought that was the best way to avoid hurting himself, so be it. If a Zag did it I would 99.9% give him a pass on it. Grayson? It's admittedly a lot harder.

The Florida St bench coach said recently that he didn't think it was malicious, so that's good enough for me...

bartruff1
01-14-2017, 11:42 AM
The kid played like a All American today....good for him...

CDC84
02-06-2017, 01:42 PM
Allen with another tripping incident vs. Pitt:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/watch-hard-to-believe-but-dukes-grayson-allen-whistled-for-tripping-again/

seacatfan
02-06-2017, 02:05 PM
I didn't see that before. Huh. That one "might" have been accidental, but this idiot gets zero benefit of the doubt at this point. I've noticed in recent games other teams are getting pretty chippy with Allen. They've seen enough and they aren't going to put up with it. A more significant retaliation may still come at some point this season.

Did you see the one from a week ago or so where he decided to walk right thru the middle of the other team on the sideline after a break in the action? Easily could've taken a couple steps to go around, but not Allen. Such an idiot.