Who's 3rd in WCC? BYU or ???

[Zagger]

We enter league play on 12/29 against Pepperdine in McCarthy. (http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskb...kbl-sched.html) We know the Zags and SMC likely have a lock on #1 and #2 in the WCC. If BYU isn't #3, who is? How do Pacific, San Diego, Portland, others look? Is there a 'sleeper' WCC team that could push BYU out of a third place in the WCC?

[bartruff1]

I doubt it...but if there is a sleeper, it may be San Francisco...

[Kiddwell]

Right now...

...BYU. Hoping something's going on at USF, and their success translates into a lot of WCC wins. So many new WCC coaches bringing in their systems, hardly had time to recruit their guys, etc. Probably have a good idea how well those coaches will do in two, three years. BYU, though, has noteworthy talent, but are young and learning to be a unit. Thought this would be their year to make The Dance (and maybe they still will). Next year, though, Cougars oughta be formidable. If not, think "they (like UWKFC) need a new coach."*

Pepperdine's a bit of a disappointment this year.


:]



<*Not wishing anyone to lose his job. Just D1 b-ball reality.>

[ZagsObserver]

BYU, and not even close. The BYU you'll see in 2 months will be better than the BYU of today by no small margin. They have a lot of new faces over there.

[gonzagafan62]

BYU or USF

[zagdontzig]

If not, think "they (like UWKFC) need a new coach."

I hate saying this, but Dave Rose is a good coach and won't lose his job. BYU's stumbling is largely by virtue of BYU's honor code, a disadvantage in-built in its recruiting power. BYU relies on the occasional start-power of a Fredette coming out of Lone Peak or a Matt Carlino transferring in and being consistent to have real success.

Also, as alluded to below, Kaufusi's return is going to be a problem for us. He's a dirty player, as many of them are, but they seem to get away with it. See Brandon Davies 1-season suspension for consensual sex with his future wife in comparison to Nick Emery 1-game suspension for committing a battery in regulation, punching Brandon Taylor.

BYU, and not even close. The BYU you'll see in 2 months will be better than the BYU of today by no small margin. They have a lot of new faces over there.

[maynard g krebs]

BYU or USF

Kenpom has BYU at 56, USF at 195, FWIW.

[Goshzagit]

Sticking by my pre-season prediction:

Gonzaga
BYU
3rd. St Marys

[Martin Centre Mad Man]

If they aren't the third best team right now, BYU will be the third best team by February. USF has a better record, but the Dons have played a very weak schedule. The Dons' best RPI win was against a 5-4 Lamar team ranked 248 in the RPI. The one game they played against a team in the Top 200 was that loss to EWU. USF's strength of schedule ranks 342.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SANFRAN/san-francisco-dons

Portland is probably the best of the others. They have three losses, but losing to Dayton, UCLA, and Colorado is not unexpected for a middle-tier WCC team. They have won the games they should have won. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ortland-pilots

[mgadfly]

I about puke when I look at USF's strength of schedule (Kenpom: 351st). They are 7-1, but I'd rather be Portland with decent outings against UCLA, Dayton, and Colorado and a 136th ranked SOS.

Kenpom SOS for WCC teams:
1. SMC - 118
2. Portland - 136
3. Pacific - 144
4. Pepperdine - 166
5. Gonzaga - 185
6. BYU - 237
7. LMU - 276
8. USD - 325
9. Broncs - 334
10. USF - 351

I think GU's non-conference SOS will trend up as some of the teams have underperformed. However, when the WCC only gets one team in again we shouldn't blame the committee, but our conference-mates scheduling practices.

[sittingon50]

I hate saying this, but Dave Rose is a good coach and won't lose his job. BYU's stumbling is largely by virtue of BYU's honor code, a disadvantage in-built in its recruiting power. BYU relies on the occasional start-power of a Fredette coming out of Lone Peak or a Matt Carlino transferring in and being consistent to have real success.

Also, as alluded to below, Kaufusi's return is going to be a problem for us. He's a dirty player, as many of them are, but they seem to get away with it. See Brandon Davies 1-season suspension for consensual sex with his future wife in comparison to Nick Emery 1-game suspension for committing a battery in regulation, punching Brandon Taylor.

Jimmer grew up in N.Y., as I recall.

On the flip side zig, don't you feel that BYU has a built in church advantage, much like Notre Dame? Most of the churches have gyms; kids are playing organized hoops from a young age. Plus those that serve missions are generally graduating at around age 24.

IMO, the younger Kafusi isn't that bad. He came to play hoops. His older brother, however, came to play football & is now in the NFL.

Just some thoughts.

[jazzdelmar]

I hate saying this, but Dave Rose is a good coach and won't lose his job. BYU's stumbling is largely by virtue of BYU's honor code, a disadvantage in-built in its recruiting power. BYU relies on the occasional start-power of a Fredette coming out of Lone Peak or a Matt Carlino transferring in and being consistent to have real success.

Also, as alluded to below, Kaufusi's return is going to be a problem for us. He's a dirty player, as many of them are, but they seem to get away with it. See Brandon Davies 1-season suspension for consensual sex with his future wife in comparison to Nick Emery 1-game suspension for committing a battery in regulation, punching Brandon Taylor.

Jimmer was from upstate New York, Glens Falls, in the shadow of the Adirondacks. A lovely town north of Saratoga and south of Lake George.

[TexasZagFan]

I about puke when I look at USF's strength of schedule (Kenpom: 351st). They are 7-1, but I'd rather be Portland with decent outings against UCLA, Dayton, and Colorado and a 136th ranked SOS.

Kenpom SOS for WCC teams:
1. SMC - 118
2. Portland - 136
3. Pacific - 144
4. Pepperdine - 166
5. Gonzaga - 185
6. BYU - 237
7. LMU - 276
8. USD - 325
9. Broncs - 334
10. USF - 351

I think GU's non-conference SOS will trend up as some of the teams have underperformed. However, when the WCC only gets one team in again we shouldn't blame the committee, but our conference-mates scheduling practices.

I think Bryant, Quinnipiac, and Mississippi Valley tanked our SOS, perhaps Utah Valley as well. IMO, adds more importance to winning in Nashville on Sunday. We aren't going to get much help from the lower half of the WCC when it comes to SOS.

I think our OOC has been reasonable this year, considering the turnover of players from last year.

[zagdontzig]

Jimmer grew up in N.Y., as I recall.

On the flip side zig, don't you feel that BYU has a built in church advantage, much like Notre Dame? Most of the churches have gyms; kids are playing organized hoops from a young age. Plus those that serve missions are generally graduating at around age 24.

IMO, the younger Kafusi isn't that bad. He came to play hoops. His older brother, however, came to play football & is now in the NFL.

Just some thoughts.

Corbin is playing football and will rejoin MBB after the season is over. I think he's athletic, but I also think he uses physicality for what he lacks in talent, and this is dangerous when he gets frustrated against an opponent who's outplaying him, because he starts throwing high elbows and undercutting guys.

Jimmer was from upstate New York, Glens Falls, in the shadow of the Adirondacks. A lovely town north of Saratoga and south of Lake George.

By "a fredette" I meant a typical BYU all-offense-no-defense 2 or a 3, but thank you for the information, I didn't know that.

[TravelinZag]

Interesting discussion for a slow week, but in the end, who cares? The same WCC will not get, and does not deserve three bids to the dance. Shame that the few competitive teams must share tourney revenues with schools that have no interest in fielding a good team but greedily lamp up the money and use it for something else. GU men's and women's basketball teams would be better off as independents, leaving the non-revenue sports in the WCC. If only larger leagues had not made OOC scheduling so difficult. Zags could compete in any conference; they might not dominate every year, but with multiple bids, would still Dance as often.