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raise the zag
12-03-2016, 06:11 AM
"who guards Florida's wing(s)?" -- Robinson went off.

"Who guards ISU's 4th guard in their small lineup?" -- Burton went for 30.

Now..."Who guards Lauri Markkanen?"

Seems like an easy one to ask, given he's their leading scorer, but there's more to the story:

Reading their message boards, and keenly listening to Seacat, there are rumors/expectations Markkenen will be playing a lot at the (3)/Wing vs Gonzaga to counter our size. Planning to play 7'0" Ristic at Center, 6'11" Comanche at PF, and 7'0 Markkenen at SF. (not forget Zona's best defender 6'9" Pinder who plays SF/PF/C)

He is agile, can face up, post up, shoot the 3pt, dribble drive, etc. Actually plays a lot like Wiltjer, but even more athletic/mobile. His defense is suspect at best, even at his height and length, but he can score at will...and from anywhere.

How do the Zags adjust? Jordan Mathews is a solid defender, but he's 6'1". If you put J3 or Tillie on him, then Arizona still has a 7' down low, and a 6'11" athletic freak at PF. We employ a hockey line of J3/Karno or Tillie/Collins, yet this forces a guard at SF. You can switch players on defense of course, but no matter how you adjust, there is at least one Zona big open or matched up vs a guard with our regular lineup.

What about playing Tillie at the (3) for defensive purposes? To match up with Markkenen? Alongside Karno/J3, or Karno/Collins or J3/Collins. Since Arizona is expected to play him at the (3), I think this would surprise them and Lauri. Tillie if capable of guarding him. Nearly the same height, etc.

If Tillie plays alongside Collins as we predictably do, he will be forced to guard uber athletic/strong Comanche, Collins vs Ristic, and again, leaving Markkanen to score at will every trip down the court.

Arizona has mostly played their best offensive weapon as a face up stretch PF, but heard from many sources, he's going to play wing as a mis-match.

All this said, I haven't even mentioned their 5* SG, Top-10 player in Kobi Simmons, or 5* Top-15 man-beast do it all guuard Rawle Atkins (like Burton but way faster/quicker).

And...Allonzo Trier may play.

Zona is good, highly motivated, and an extra day of prep/rest/practice than us. Wildcat fans travel well and LA is filled with Zona alum.

IF the Zags can figure out a way to guard or match-up with Markannen, esp when he plays the 3, we match up well vs Arizona. They are more talented than us, plain and simple. We are more experienced, a bit better execution on offense, but will have to play the best we have played all season to win.

Goshzagit
12-03-2016, 06:46 AM
Zone?

thespywhozaggedme
12-03-2016, 07:03 AM
"who guards Florida's wing(s)?" -- Robinson went off.

"Who guards ISU's 4th guard in their small lineup?" -- Burton went for 30.

Now..."Who guards Lauri Markkanen?"

Seems like an easy one to ask, given he's their leading scorer, but there's more to the story:

Reading their message boards, and keenly listening to Seacat, there are rumors/expectations Markkenen will be playing a lot at the (3)/Wing vs Gonzaga to counter our size. Planning to play 7'0" Ristic at Center, 6'11" Comanche at PF, and 7'0 Markkenen at SF. (not forget Zona's best defender 6'9" Pinder who plays SF/PF/C)

He is agile, can face up, post up, shoot the 3pt, dribble drive, etc. Actually plays a lot like Wiltjer, but even more athletic/mobile. His defense is suspect at best, even at his height and length, but he can score at will...and from anywhere.

How do the Zags adjust? Jordan Mathews is a solid defender, but he's 6'1". If you put J3 or Tillie on him, then Arizona still has a 7' down low, and a 6'11" athletic freak at PF. We employ a hockey line of J3/Karno or Tillie/Collins, yet this forces a guard at SF. You can switch players on defense of course, but no matter how you adjust, there is at least one Zona big open or matched up vs a guard with our regular lineup.

What about playing Tillie at the (3) for defensive purposes? To match up with Markkenen? Alongside Karno/J3, or Karno/Collins or J3/Collins. Since Arizona is expected to play him at the (3), I think this would surprise them and Lauri. Tillie if capable of guarding him. Nearly the same height, etc.

If Tillie plays alongside Collins as we predictably do, he will be forced to guard uber athletic/strong Comanche, Collins vs Ristic, and again, leaving Markkanen to score at will every trip down the court.

Arizona has mostly played their best offensive weapon as a face up stretch PF, but heard from many sources, he's going to play wing as a mis-match.

All this said, I haven't even mentioned their 5* SG, Top-10 player in Kobi Simmons, or 5* Top-15 man-beast do it all guuard Rawle Atkins (like Burton but way faster/quicker).

And...Allonzo Trier may play.

Zona is good, highly motivated, and an extra day of prep/rest/practice than us. Wildcat fans travel well and LA is filled with Zona alum.

IF the Zags can figure out a way to guard or match-up with Markannen, esp when he plays the 3, we match up well vs Arizona. They are more talented than us, plain and simple. We are more experienced, a bit better execution on offense, but will have to play the best we have played all season to win.

They lost to Butler, let's not make them out to be the Michael Jordan Bulls.

Goshzagit
12-03-2016, 07:13 AM
They lost to Butler, let's not make them out to be the Michael Jordan Bulls.

A one possesion game vs Top 20 Butler.

Butler undefeated, underrated, & beaten up on good teams.

I feel we can beat Arizona, & most likely better team at the moment.

I could see us being humbled in a heartbeat or showing the nation we belong as a Top 10 team. This will certainly be our most watched game of the season (Committee, pundits, analysts, fans).

Concerned about our guards overly tense or pressing based on their comments. As hot as Nigel & Perkins are from 3pt, over 50% a piece, law of averages will take over. Only takes one shot to start a hot or cold streak.

Just hope its not this game they go cold. No jinx!

zagsfanforlife
12-03-2016, 08:23 AM
"who guards Florida's wing(s)?" -- Robinson went off.

"Who guards ISU's 4th guard in their small lineup?" -- Burton went for 30.

Now..."Who guards Lauri Markkanen?"

Seems like an easy one to ask, given he's their leading scorer, but there's more to the story:

Reading their message boards, and keenly listening to Seacat, there are rumors/expectations Markkenen will be playing a lot at the (3)/Wing vs Gonzaga to counter our size. Planning to play 7'0" Ristic at Center, 6'11" Comanche at PF, and 7'0 Markkenen at SF. (not forget Zona's best defender 6'9" Pinder who plays SF/PF/C)

He is agile, can face up, post up, shoot the 3pt, dribble drive, etc. Actually plays a lot like Wiltjer, but even more athletic/mobile. His defense is suspect at best, even at his height and length, but he can score at will...and from anywhere.

How do the Zags adjust? Jordan Mathews is a solid defender, but he's 6'1". If you put J3 or Tillie on him, then Arizona still has a 7' down low, and a 6'11" athletic freak at PF. We employ a hockey line of J3/Karno or Tillie/Collins, yet this forces a guard at SF. You can switch players on defense of course, but no matter how you adjust, there is at least one Zona big open or matched up vs a guard with our regular lineup.

What about playing Tillie at the (3) for defensive purposes? To match up with Markkenen? Alongside Karno/J3, or Karno/Collins or J3/Collins. Since Arizona is expected to play him at the (3), I think this would surprise them and Lauri. Tillie if capable of guarding him. Nearly the same height, etc.

If Tillie plays alongside Collins as we predictably do, he will be forced to guard uber athletic/strong Comanche, Collins vs Ristic, and again, leaving Markkanen to score at will every trip down the court.

Arizona has mostly played their best offensive weapon as a face up stretch PF, but heard from many sources, he's going to play wing as a mis-match.

All this said, I haven't even mentioned their 5* SG, Top-10 player in Kobi Simmons, or 5* Top-15 man-beast do it all guuard Rawle Atkins (like Burton but way faster/quicker).

And...Allonzo Trier may play.

Zona is good, highly motivated, and an extra day of prep/rest/practice than us. Wildcat fans travel well and LA is filled with Zona alum.

IF the Zags can figure out a way to guard or match-up with Markannen, esp when he plays the 3, we match up well vs Arizona. They are more talented than us, plain and simple. We are more experienced, a bit better execution on offense, but will have to play the best we have played all season to win.


Def disagree that "they are more talented than us". We are more talented, and experienced. I'll be pretty bummed if we don't win this game. I fully expect us to.

Coach Crazy
12-03-2016, 08:31 AM
Throw different looks at him. Utilize some zone, some man, and if he's going to stay close to the arc, do some switching and make him adjust. That will do more to dictate how he acts.

If JJ were acclimated, I'd say give him some time on Lauri.

Also, on misses, if he's going to play on the wing, get a fast, deep outlet and make him either be a legitimate get back on defense and make him work extra, and/or take it at him if he does and get some fouls trouble going.

Even if our defenders are shorter, stay up in his chest and make sure he doesn't get comfortably set for shots.




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willandi
12-03-2016, 08:58 AM
"who guards Florida's wing(s)?" -- Robinson went off.

"Who guards ISU's 4th guard in their small lineup?" -- Burton went for 30.

Now..."Who guards Lauri Markkanen?"

Seems like an easy one to ask, given he's their leading scorer, but there's more to the story:

Reading their message boards, and keenly listening to Seacat, there are rumors/expectations Markkenen will be playing a lot at the (3)/Wing vs Gonzaga to counter our size. Planning to play 7'0" Ristic at Center, 6'11" Comanche at PF, and 7'0 Markkenen at SF. (not forget Zona's best defender 6'9" Pinder who plays SF/PF/C)

He is agile, can face up, post up, shoot the 3pt, dribble drive, etc. Actually plays a lot like Wiltjer, but even more athletic/mobile. His defense is suspect at best, even at his height and length, but he can score at will...and from anywhere.

How do the Zags adjust? Jordan Mathews is a solid defender, but he's 6'1". If you put J3 or Tillie on him, then Arizona still has a 7' down low, and a 6'11" athletic freak at PF. We employ a hockey line of J3/Karno or Tillie/Collins, yet this forces a guard at SF. You can switch players on defense of course, but no matter how you adjust, there is at least one Zona big open or matched up vs a guard with our regular lineup.

What about playing Tillie at the (3) for defensive purposes? To match up with Markkenen? Alongside Karno/J3, or Karno/Collins or J3/Collins. Since Arizona is expected to play him at the (3), I think this would surprise them and Lauri. Tillie if capable of guarding him. Nearly the same height, etc.

If Tillie plays alongside Collins as we predictably do, he will be forced to guard uber athletic/strong Comanche, Collins vs Ristic, and again, leaving Markkanen to score at will every trip down the court.

Arizona has mostly played their best offensive weapon as a face up stretch PF, but heard from many sources, he's going to play wing as a mis-match.

All this said, I haven't even mentioned their 5* SG, Top-10 player in Kobi Simmons, or 5* Top-15 man-beast do it all guuard Rawle Atkins (like Burton but way faster/quicker).

And...Allonzo Trier may play.

Zona is good, highly motivated, and an extra day of prep/rest/practice than us. Wildcat fans travel well and LA is filled with Zona alum.

IF the Zags can figure out a way to guard or match-up with Markannen, esp when he plays the 3, we match up well vs Arizona. They are more talented than us, plain and simple. We are more experienced, a bit better execution on offense, but will have to play the best we have played all season to win.

Which of the players of theirs that you seem enamored with would you exchange for Zag players...and which Zags. I think the Zags can match that tall line-up with a better player at every position and are a wash, or better, in the backcourt, especially if Nigel and Josh continue to be hot from 3.

cggonzaga
12-03-2016, 11:09 AM
I would be shocked if Miller played the 3 bigs and gave up all that defense. Gonzaga would score at will against that lineup especially if the 3 was falling. My guess is Williams and Tillie draw the matchup. Maybe Collins sprinkled in.

seacatfan
12-03-2016, 11:19 AM
I would be shocked if Miller played the 3 bigs and gave up all that defense. Gonzaga would score at will against that lineup especially if the 3 was falling. My guess is Williams and Tillie draw the matchup. Maybe Collins sprinkled in.

Agree completely. They've rolled out the big lineup for short stretches off and on but I doubt they start all 3.

Although with PJC out and if Trier doesn't play, they have no other guards after Allen, Alkins and Simmons. If all 3 start, gonna log some major minutes.

maynard g krebs
12-03-2016, 12:04 PM
Playing Comanche, Ristic and Markannen together would make for an even more stagnant offense than Zona already has. Not something I'm too worried about.

thespywhozaggedme
12-03-2016, 03:35 PM
Halftime bump

Plainsman
12-03-2016, 05:48 PM
Not all that impressed with Markkanen tonight. He appears to be really "soft". Did not like the tough contact underneath from Shem or anyone else for that matter. Seemed to really frustrate him. He's going to have to toughen up if he wants to be effective at the top level of college basketball in the USA.

Marcus
12-03-2016, 06:01 PM
Not all that impressed with Markkanen tonight. He appears to be really "soft". Did not like the tough contact underneath from Shem or anyone else for that matter. Seemed to really frustrate him. He's going to have to toughen up if he wants to be effective at the top level of college basketball in the USA.

He got crunched pretty hard a couple of times by our guards and just looked so shocked. One time in particular Perkins got him really good on a block out. He didn't like it but didn't really respond with intensity either.

willandi
12-03-2016, 08:15 PM
"who guards Florida's wing(s)?" -- Robinson went off.

"Who guards ISU's 4th guard in their small lineup?" -- Burton went for 30.

Now..."Who guards Lauri Markkanen?"

Seems like an easy one to ask, given he's their leading scorer, but there's more to the story:

Reading their message boards, and keenly listening to Seacat, there are rumors/expectations Markkenen will be playing a lot at the (3)/Wing vs Gonzaga to counter our size. Planning to play 7'0" Ristic at Center, 6'11" Comanche at PF, and 7'0 Markkenen at SF. (not forget Zona's best defender 6'9" Pinder who plays SF/PF/C)

He is agile, can face up, post up, shoot the 3pt, dribble drive, etc. Actually plays a lot like Wiltjer, but even more athletic/mobile. His defense is suspect at best, even at his height and length, but he can score at will...and from anywhere.

How do the Zags adjust? Jordan Mathews is a solid defender, but he's 6'1". If you put J3 or Tillie on him, then Arizona still has a 7' down low, and a 6'11" athletic freak at PF. We employ a hockey line of J3/Karno or Tillie/Collins, yet this forces a guard at SF. You can switch players on defense of course, but no matter how you adjust, there is at least one Zona big open or matched up vs a guard with our regular lineup.

What about playing Tillie at the (3) for defensive purposes? To match up with Markkenen? Alongside Karno/J3, or Karno/Collins or J3/Collins. Since Arizona is expected to play him at the (3), I think this would surprise them and Lauri. Tillie if capable of guarding him. Nearly the same height, etc.

If Tillie plays alongside Collins as we predictably do, he will be forced to guard uber athletic/strong Comanche, Collins vs Ristic, and again, leaving Markkanen to score at will every trip down the court.

Arizona has mostly played their best offensive weapon as a face up stretch PF, but heard from many sources, he's going to play wing as a mis-match.

All this said, I haven't even mentioned their 5* SG, Top-10 player in Kobi Simmons, or 5* Top-15 man-beast do it all guuard Rawle Atkins (like Burton but way faster/quicker).

And...Allonzo Trier may play.

Zona is good, highly motivated, and an extra day of prep/rest/practice than us. Wildcat fans travel well and LA is filled with Zona alum.

IF the Zags can figure out a way to guard or match-up with Markannen, esp when he plays the 3, we match up well vs Arizona. They are more talented than us, plain and simple. We are more experienced, a bit better execution on offense, but will have to play the best we have played all season to win.


Which of the players of theirs that you seem enamored with would you exchange for Zag players...and which Zags. I think the Zags can match that tall line-up with a better player at every position and are a wash, or better, in the backcourt, especially if Nigel and Josh continue to be hot from 3.

This is the second game you have asked that question. I responded which of their players would you trade for Zag players. The question still stands!

CdAZagFan
12-03-2016, 08:29 PM
Not all that impressed with Markkanen tonight. He appears to be really "soft". Did not like the tough contact underneath from Shem or anyone else for that matter. Seemed to really frustrate him. He's going to have to toughen up if he wants to be effective at the top level of college basketball in the USA.

I was impressed with him... Thought we did a good job of keeping him off balance today, but for a 7-footer, I thought he showed some incredible skill for a freshman.

willandi
12-03-2016, 08:32 PM
I was impressed with him... Thought we did a good job of keeping him off balance today, but for a 7-footer, I thought he showed some incredible skill for a freshman.

Better than Collins?

seacatfan
12-03-2016, 08:40 PM
Better than Collins?

Such different players, hard to compare. Collins is obviously very skilled and he can step out and shoot all the way to the 3 point arc, but he is a post player first and foremost. Markannen is more of a perimeter oriented player that can score in the key. Collins is more physical. I think Markannen is more similar to Tillie than Collins in terms of skill set.

Goshzagit
12-03-2016, 08:42 PM
Better than Collins?

does it matter? both are terrific players in their own right. we showed we are better than Arizona as a team, but if talent is measured by potential, ranking, and recruitment, then they are more "talented". Depends on your definition.

Markannen is a projected Top-10 pick in every NBA mock draft, including Draftexpress and every reputable site. Collins has yet to make a cameo, but I'm sure he will...

The Zona kid is Arizona's #1 option and Coach Few said in post-game interviews, "our entire defense, including our zone was designed to shade Markannen". Tells you how good he is and can be...our game plan was to stop him.

He is averaging 18 ppg, 8 rebs, 47% 3pt with over 30 attempts.

Collins is averaging 12 ppg, 5 rebs, 33% 3pt with 3 attempts.

Both will be NBA kids at some point.

willandi
12-03-2016, 08:49 PM
The title of the thread was "Who will guard...". If Collins was the Zags primary focus, what would HIS numbers be? He is our back-up center. I would rather have Collins, with the team Gonzaga has, than Lauri.

Ezag
12-03-2016, 09:23 PM
Lauri was milk toast

zagsfanforlife
12-03-2016, 10:35 PM
This thread looks pretty silly. They werent "more talented than us" .. plan and simple. Seems like you drank too much AZ koolaid. I had seen them a few times this year so i wasnt taking any sips.

willandi
12-04-2016, 08:06 AM
This thread looks pretty silly. They werent "more talented than us" .. plan and simple. Seems like you drank too much AZ koolaid. I had seen them a few times this year so i wasnt taking any sips.

That was kind of my point. I think that Gonzaga was as good, or better, at every position. Would Lauri make a nice addition to the Zags? Of course. I just don't know who they would have to cut to get him and how he would get PT.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-04-2016, 08:09 AM
Up next...who guards Markelle Fultz?

Therunner
12-04-2016, 08:14 AM
Still looking for the part where anyone said they would rather have Arizona players, or even swap Lauri Markannen with one of our own?

I did see a comment that "Arizona is more talented than us..."

The post didn't say better than us, or better team, or even better players.

The word "talent" is quite subjective. Technically, Arizona IS more talented than Gonzaga. They have Top-5 recruiting classes and 5* guys, Gonzaga does not.

Overally, Arizona is more talented than Gonzaga...on paper. In terms of NBA profile rankings, recruiting stars, etc.

5* > 4*. Again, on paper.

Doesn't mean squat on the court, or development, or as a team performance when they play head-to-head. Gonzaga has more weapons at the right time, and showed its own "talent".

Also, the OP never said Arizona would beat us. Rather, how or who would defend Arizona's best offensive weapon. Coach Few made it clear our scheme was designed to stop their 7-foot, 2 position, 19 ppg scorer.

This thread became a game of telephone or slippery slope, rather pretty objective if you look at it as such...

NEC26
12-04-2016, 08:40 AM
I don't get why some are getting their panties in a wad over a simple post asking a reasonable question that I assure you Few and staff were asking themselves. They had a good game plan that they executed well. Well done Zags! Arizona is talented and we did a terrific job getting a win!

Outraged
12-04-2016, 08:55 AM
I think he is an amazing player. I found it ironic that Arizona went with three bigs... The same decision gonzaga had to deal with last year. The nice thing is that we had multiple options to guard him.

kitzbuel
12-04-2016, 09:52 AM
This is the second time a fêted big has been neutralized by GU. I think having our own very talented bigs combined with some good coaching and scouting is the likely answer.

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