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jazzdelmar
11-15-2016, 04:35 AM
Is it certain that Norvell is red shirting?

kitzbuel
11-15-2016, 05:23 AM
Seems like the option is certainly still in place.

btzag
11-15-2016, 05:39 AM
I don't know how anyone could think otherwise. He plays in the exhibition that doesn't count against the red shirt status and then does not see the court in the two counting games even though few emptied the bench of every single suited up player. Either that or he's moved behind Triano and Rem in the rotation.

TexasZagFan
11-15-2016, 06:00 AM
I don't know how anyone could think otherwise. He plays in the exhibition that doesn't count against the red shirt status and then does not see the court in the two counting games even though few emptied the bench of every single suited up player. Either that or he's moved behind Triano and Rem in the rotation.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRdmvM3X4QZBN6gfUBwDeuKFpcPEonf wm4B7rYXtGuFePAA8IW

GoZags
11-15-2016, 06:37 AM
Is it certain that Norvell is red shirting?

Far from "official" but I'd heard that they wanted to take a few weeks and see what was happening with his knee. I believe there was soreness after the exhibition game. He IS practicing and available in an emergency but if there was a "cliche" to use it would be "slow and steady wins the race".

Hoopaholic
11-15-2016, 06:52 AM
Far from "official" but I'd heard that they wanted to take a few weeks and see what was happening with his knee. I believe there was soreness after the exhibition game. He IS practicing and available in an emergency but if there was a "cliche" to use it would be "slow and steady wins the race".

this makes absolute sense. If he has any lingering physical issues it is best to see him come through with complete healing and thus complete confidence. At that point they can determine if red shirt is the option which my guess will hinge on the timing of his full recovery. He is one of those I was looking forward to seeing play alot

DukeSilver
11-15-2016, 06:56 AM
I don't know how anyone could think otherwise. He plays in the exhibition that doesn't count against the red shirt status and then does not see the court in the two counting games even though few emptied the bench of every single suited up player. Either that or he's moved behind Triano and Rem in the rotation.


If he was certainly redshirting, then he wouldn't have been suited up for the last two games. Definitely something more going on, I assume it has to do with trying to let his knee heal more. If he can get healthy, I'm all for him playing this season, even if his minutes are limited.

CanadianZagsFan
11-15-2016, 07:03 AM
If his knee is 80-90% fine, can he still play the past couple games ... not working out... Medical red shirt ? Or with prolonged type injury dating back to summer/further the NCAA would not allow GU to go that route.


??

--Is he going in pre game warmups ? Going full speed ? How about practices ? He's one of my fav players on this team already. I just believe he'll be special talent for GU, health pending of course v

GoZags
11-15-2016, 07:23 AM
If he was certainly redshirting, then he wouldn't have been suited up for the last two games. Definitely something more going on, I assume it has to do with trying to let his knee heal more. If he can get healthy, I'm all for him playing this season, even if his minutes are limited.

Norvell suited up but did not "warm up" last night. He shot a little bit but didn't fully warm up.

sittingon50
11-15-2016, 09:25 AM
If he was certainly redshirting, then he wouldn't have been suited up for the last two games. Definitely something more going on, I assume it has to do with trying to let his knee heal more. If he can get healthy, I'm all for him playing this season, even if his minutes are limited.


Draino suited for every game his Freshman year; didn't play.

Mr Vulture
11-15-2016, 10:41 AM
My guess is that they could use him if they had an injury but they prefer to redshirt him. Granted, this is probably due to the knee but there are also only so many minutes available and he'd be the 5th option at the 1 thru 3 spots.

soccerdud
11-15-2016, 07:37 PM
Draino suited for every game his Freshman year; didn't play.

and melson, his freshman year. was ready to go-- and then had to when josh got kicked.

btzag
11-16-2016, 06:39 AM
and melson, his freshman year. was ready to go-- and then had to when josh got kicked.

This is exactly the situation I think Norvell is in. I would be blown away if Norvell sees any time if all the guards stay healthy, eligible and playing at the level we have seen to start the year.

timgozags
11-16-2016, 10:22 AM
In my opinion, Norvell is totally different from Melson or Dranginis. He is a lot more mature than both of them on their freshman years. I don't think Norvell will be around long, and if we don't use him it will be a waste. If he is ready and healthy, I rather play him now than burn 1 year of redshirt. Like Kelly Olynyk, we could've used him 1 more year than sitting him RS and he left early anyway. But it's just my opinion, i am sure the coach has very good reasons to sit him the last 2 games

zagsfanforlife
11-16-2016, 10:37 AM
My guess is that they could use him if they had an injury but they prefer to redshirt him. Granted, this is probably due to the knee but there are also only so many minutes available and he'd be the 5th option at the 1 thru 3 spots.

I am significantly missing something that Few is seeing if he honestly thinks Bryan Alberts is the better option over Norvell (as you state above).

seacatfan
11-16-2016, 10:49 AM
Like Kelly Olynyk, we could've used him 1 more year than sitting him RS and he left early anyway.

That's apples and oranges I think. Olynk would not have been Olynk without the RS year. His first 2 seasons were pretty mediocre. He was a TOTALLY different player when he emerged after the RS. There was plenty of documentation about his training and the transformation he went thru.

maynard g krebs
11-16-2016, 10:59 AM
I absolutely think Norvell should and will play this year if his knee is healthy and pain-free. Four guys for 3 spots isn't enough over the course of a season; at some point somebody is sure to get dinged up or in foul trouble in a big game, and Norvell/Alberts isn't close as to who you want stepping in.

This could be THE year for the Zags. Karno's gone, and though I think Collins is a 2 yr player, you never know. Hope Norvell gets well and plays, even if it's 10-15 mpg. I don't think he'll be around for 5 yrs anyway, as tim said above, and it's obvious his game is mature beyond his years, at least on offense.

btzag
11-16-2016, 11:02 AM
I am significantly missing something that Few is seeing if he honestly thinks Bryan Alberts is the better option over Norvell (as you state above).

No I think he's stating Alberts is the 5th option today and if Norvell decided to play he would be the 5th option instead of Alberts. And right now Alberts is only getting garbage time minutes.

IF Norvell got playing time Few would basically be subtracting from NWG, Perkins, Melson or Matthews.

Coach Crazy
11-16-2016, 11:07 AM
So, it seems that Norvell may be dealing with a knee issue and not a doghouse?

Hope he gets healthy and had a chance to develop. He has the potential to be a contributor like Tillie and Collins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

btzag
11-16-2016, 11:11 AM
I absolutely think Norvell should and will play this year if his knee is healthy and pain-free. Four guys for 3 spots isn't enough over the course of a season; at some point somebody is sure to get dinged up or in foul trouble in a big game, and Norvell/Alberts isn't close as to who you want stepping in.

This could be THE year for the Zags. Karno's gone, and though I think Collins is a 2 yr player, you never know. Hope Norvell gets well and plays, even if it's 10-15 mpg. I don't think he'll be around for 5 yrs anyway, as tim said above, and it's obvious his game is mature beyond his years, at least on offense.

Yes definitely agree with this mindset, though coaches seem to really like Alberts and keep giving him chances....

GoZags
11-16-2016, 11:15 AM
So, it seems that Norvell may be dealing with a knee issue and not a doghouse?

Hope he gets healthy and had a chance to develop. He has the potential to be a contributor like Tillie and Collins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is a knee/health issue. Nothing more. Nothing less. If he were 100 percent healthy he would be in the rotation. He isn't 100 percent healthy. And he certainly isn't in any "doghouse"

Coach Crazy
11-16-2016, 11:24 AM
It is a knee/health issue. Nothing more. Nothing less. If he were 100 percent healthy he would be in the rotation. He isn't 100 percent healthy. And he certainly isn't in any "doghouse"

Roger that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Billfish'80
11-16-2016, 11:30 AM
In his interview on the Mark Few Show this week, Few stated that Zack was going to suit up, warm up, and be ready to go if needed, but they were going to treat it like a redshirt year, until an emergency dictated otherwise. I think he mentioned the discomfort Zach after the exhibition, as well. I took it to be pretty squarely, not gonna play him unless we "needed to" ala Melson's freshman year.

cjm720
11-16-2016, 11:33 AM
If he was certainly redshirting, then he wouldn't have been suited up for the last two games. Definitely something more going on, I assume it has to do with trying to let his knee heal more. If he can get healthy, I'm all for him playing this season, even if his minutes are limited.

Dranginis suited up his whole redshirt season. It's the player's choice. I read the thought process was that it prepares the player for what game day will be like moreso than if you wore street clothes.

TexasZagFan
11-16-2016, 11:49 AM
It is a knee/health issue. Nothing more. Nothing less. If he were 100 percent healthy he would be in the rotation. He isn't 100 percent healthy. And he certainly isn't in any "doghouse"

I don't see this as a big deal at the moment. From my perch 2000 miles away, the comments I've seen indicate that he would be in the rotation if he was healthy. Is Alberts taking those minutes now? We've got six weeks before WCC play begins, I'm fine with letting it play out.

Judging by the quality of players in this recruiting class, I can't think of one who will be here for all four years. That's where the program is at now, and it reflects the changing face of college basketball.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but at least half of the kids in my area have individual coaches that help them develop their games. Our HS is now running a year round program, and have the facilities to do it. Fine by me, it will help keep my son out of trouble, he's a typical 14 YO PITA that is a magnet for teenage hijinks.

ZagsGoZags
11-16-2016, 11:54 AM
That's apples and oranges I think. Olynk would not have been Olynk without the RS year. His first 2 seasons were pretty mediocre. He was a TOTALLY different player when he emerged after the RS. There was plenty of documentation about his training and the transformation he went thru.

+1

Zagdawg
11-16-2016, 12:10 PM
+2

Bogozags
11-16-2016, 02:17 PM
I don't see this as a big deal at the moment. From my perch 2000 miles away, the comments I've seen indicate that he would be in the rotation if he was healthy. Is Alberts taking those minutes now? We've got six weeks before WCC play begins, I'm fine with letting it play out.

Judging by the quality of players in this recruiting class, I can't think of one who will be here for all four years. That's where the program is at now, and it reflects the changing face of college basketball.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but at least half of the kids in my area have individual coaches that help them develop their games. Our HS is now running a year round program, and have the facilities to do it. Fine by me, it will help keep my son out of trouble, he's a typical 14 YO PITA that is a magnet for teenage hijinks.

You're absolutely right...Coach Few has stated he will be playing when he is able...Zack is a very skilled player and he will be a fine addition to this team when he is 100% healthy...

CanadianZagsFan
11-16-2016, 02:43 PM
I absolutely think Norvell should and will play this year if his knee is healthy and pain-free. Four guys for 3 spots isn't enough over the course of a season; at some point somebody is sure to get dinged up or in foul trouble in a big game, and Norvell/Alberts isn't close as to who you want stepping in.

This could be THE year for the Zags. Karno's gone, and though I think Collins is a 2 yr player, you never know. Hope Norvell gets well and plays, even if it's 10-15 mpg. I don't think he'll be around for 5 yrs anyway, as tim said above, and it's obvious his game is mature beyond his years, at least on offense.

Exactly. Great post. Zags are in win now mode, prove it by keeping Norvell ready unless 100% he needs to be shut down for the year. In that case, appeal for extra year add on like Perkins (which likely won't be needed anyways no way he's 4/5 year player old Zags or new Zags ... different position but I think he's twice the player Daye was when all is said and done).

cggonzaga
11-16-2016, 04:06 PM
I absolutely think Norvell should and will play this year if his knee is healthy and pain-free. Four guys for 3 spots isn't enough over the course of a season; at some point somebody is sure to get dinged up or in foul trouble in a big game, and Norvell/Alberts isn't close as to who you want stepping in.

This could be THE year for the Zags. Karno's gone, and though I think Collins is a 2 yr player, you never know. Hope Norvell gets well and plays, even if it's 10-15 mpg. I don't think he'll be around for 5 yrs anyway, as tim said above, and it's obvious his game is mature beyond his years, at least on offense.

I just can't seem to agree with you on this one Maynard. For one, it's not 4 guys for 3 spots. Once Jones is healthy it becomes 6 guys for 3 spots. As good as Norvell appears to be offensively (in 1 exhibition game we saw him in) he will not be taking minutes from Goss, Perkins, Matthews or Melson. It was pretty clear in the SDSU game Few has a rotation of 8 against competitive competition. I don't believe Norvell makes this team significantly better even if he was healthy. The reason I say that is because I believe the 4 ahead of him are better players right now.

I'm also not on the train that Zach isn't a 4 year player. I think he'll be a terrific college player but I'm not sure his size translates to the NBA quite yet.


You're absolutely right...Coach Few has stated he will be playing when he is able...Zack is a very skilled player and he will be a fine addition to this team when he is 100% healthy...

When? Where? Link? Everything I've read and heard is they still weren't sure what they wanted to do with him especially considering he isn't 100% healthy.


That's apples and oranges I think. Olynk would not have been Olynk without the RS year. His first 2 seasons were pretty mediocre. He was a TOTALLY different player when he emerged after the RS. There was plenty of documentation about his training and the transformation he went thru.

I'll disagree a bit here as well. KO "the player" didn't change all that much. KO "the body" did. Besides his bodily transformation the other reason he ended up redshirting was because of superior players in front of him and minutes were going to be sparse. Norvell is in a similar situation this year.

Malastein
11-16-2016, 04:37 PM
If, when healthy, he proves to be a better player than 1 of the 3 starters in practice than I think they'd burn the shirt. We have no real way of gauging right now, but there's talk of a potential future in the league. Too premature to tell right now though. I like our guards, but I have seen so many great guards in the past and I don't see a single guard performing on that level right now. Gonzaga has a lot of quality bugs though.

cggonzaga
11-16-2016, 04:56 PM
Gonzaga has a lot of quality bugs though.

They really could stand to spray around K2.

23zagmd
11-16-2016, 05:46 PM
Is it certain that Norvell is red shirting?

I sure wouldn't burn a year with the depth we have right now and with him still recovering from an injury

Bogozags
11-16-2016, 06:05 PM
I just can't seem to agree with you on this one Maynard. For one, it's not 4 guys for 3 spots. Once Jones is healthy it becomes 6 guys for 3 spots. As good as Norvell appears to be offensively (in 1 exhibition game we saw him in) he will not be taking minutes from Goss, Perkins, Matthews or Melson. It was pretty clear in the SDSU game Few has a rotation of 8 against competitive competition. I don't believe Norvell makes this team significantly better even if he was healthy. The reason I say that is because I believe the 4 ahead of him are better players right now.

I'm also not on the train that Zach isn't a 4 year player. I think he'll be a terrific college player but I'm not sure his size translates to the NBA quite yet.



When? Where? Link? Everything I've read and heard is they still weren't sure what they wanted to do with him especially considering he isn't 100% healthy.



I'll disagree a bit here as well. KO "the player" didn't change all that much. KO "the body" did. Besides his bodily transformation the other reason he ended up redshirting was because of superior players in front of him and minutes were going to be sparse. Norvell is in a similar situation this year.

Coach Few said it in an interview...I don't have a link...you don't have to believe me just wait and see...this has nothing to do with what makes sense to you or me as we are just not privy to communications held behind closed doors...

Also Zachary has a scholarship position and Jones doesn't, so if Zach earns PT then he will play...I think a lot will depend on game circumstances...

TexasZagFan
11-17-2016, 04:56 AM
They really could stand to spray around K2.

The bugs around K2 cannot compare to the bugs we have in Texas, now those are "quality bugs".

My wife screams out loud when a 3 inch cockroach sneaks into our house. Those hardly compare to the scorpions that are abundant in El Paso. And don't get me going on fire ants.

:lmao:

TexasZagFan
11-17-2016, 04:58 AM
Coach Few said it in an interview...I don't have a link...you don't have to believe me just wait and see...this has nothing to do with what makes sense to you or me as we are just not privy to communications held behind closed doors...

Also Zachary has a scholarship position and Jones doesn't, so if Zach earns PT then he will play...I think a lot will depend on game circumstances...

I think it would be nice to have another shooter on the bench when several players are having "1-fer" nights.

cjm720
11-17-2016, 05:28 AM
Smart and cautious approach by player and team. He can help now but more down the road IMO.

kitzbuel
11-17-2016, 09:41 AM
They really could stand to spray around K2.
Gonzaga has a lot of quality bugs though.

Did SMC put those bugs there?

TexasZagFan
11-17-2016, 09:50 AM
Did SMC put those bugs there?

I'm sure some of those bugs were attracted to Dellavedova's mouthpiece.

maynard g krebs
11-17-2016, 12:32 PM
I just can't seem to agree with you on this one Maynard. For one, it's not 4 guys for 3 spots. Once Jones is healthy it becomes 6 guys for 3 spots.

That's fine. I have no problem with your disagreemant. I haven't seen Jones yet, but even if he's Mike Hart, I think Tillie's a bigger, better Hart w/ more offensive game. And I think Alberts isn't a rotation guy on a top 20 team. So I'm assuming Norvell provides more value than both, but of course I don't have enough info to know.

Differing opinions are what makes this place interesting, esp when it's between people who agree most of the time.

zagfan1970
11-17-2016, 01:58 PM
Here is the quote I assume most are referring to;


Freshman Zach Norvell didn’t play but “he’s going to be warmed up and ready to go,” Few said. “We’ll just play it by ear.”

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/nov/11/zags-pull-away-from-utah-valley-win-opener-92-69/

cggonzaga
11-17-2016, 04:56 PM
Differing opinions are what makes this place interesting, esp when it's between people who agree most of the time.

:D

Bogozags
11-17-2016, 06:08 PM
Here is the quote I assume most are referring to;


Freshman Zach Norvell didn’t play but “he’s going to be warmed up and ready to go,” Few said. “We’ll just play it by ear.”

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/nov/11/zags-pull-away-from-utah-valley-win-opener-92-69/

Yes, that is the quote...thank you bringing this to the forefront again! I knew I saw/read this somewhere...

ZagzKrak
11-17-2016, 06:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqK43Epe58Q


At 28:50 when Rui checks in Fox mentions the staff is not inclined to red shirt any of the freshmen with Larson red shirting due to injury.

cggonzaga
11-18-2016, 12:04 AM
Yes, that is the quote...thank you bringing this to the forefront again! I knew I saw/read this somewhere...

I guess we're reading that quote differently bogo. "Playing it by ear" and "Coach Few stated he'll be playing when he's able" are two totally different statements.

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-18-2016, 01:24 AM
The bugs around K2 cannot compare to the bugs we have in Texas, now those are "quality bugs".

My wife screams out loud when a 3 inch cockroach sneaks into our house. Those hardly compare to the scorpions that are abundant in El Paso. And don't get me going on fire ants.

:lmao:

Tell me more about those fire ants.

Bogozags
11-18-2016, 02:59 AM
I guess we're reading that quote differently bogo. "Playing it by ear" and "Coach Few stated he'll be playing when he's able" are two totally different statements.

That's very true...we will just have to wait and see how this plays out...with all our talent, some would think that a RS for Zach and Rui would be a forgone conclusion.

Also the decision to RS is one made by both the player and the coach so neither player might chose RS or the Staff may not want them or the players don't want to and the staff does or the players want to and the staff doesn't...sounds crazy doesn't it

seacatfan
11-18-2016, 11:56 AM
I'll disagree a bit here as well. KO "the player" didn't change all that much. KO "the body" did. Besides his bodily transformation the other reason he ended up redshirting was because of superior players in front of him and minutes were going to be sparse. Norvell is in a similar situation this year.

Yeah, but the body transformation wouldn't have happened without the RS. And without that, Olynk would've continued to be the same player he was before the RS. It wasn't just adding muscle, it was hand-eye coordination, general body coordination, stuff like that. Things that there just isn't time to work on during a normal season unless you are sitting out.

TexasZagFan
11-18-2016, 01:17 PM
Yeah, but the body transformation wouldn't have happened without the RS. And without that, Olynk would've continued to be the same player he was before the RS. It wasn't just adding muscle, it was hand-eye coordination, general body coordination, stuff like that. Things that there just isn't time to work on during a normal season unless you are sitting out.

There was also a transformation of the mind. Kelly spent a lot of time with the coaches, and was able to see what they were looking at. I recall descriptions of him as another assistant coach.

Murphy outgo lifer
11-22-2016, 07:01 PM
Does anyone have any updates on Norvell? How is his knee? Is there any improvement? Are they thinking he is going to need another surgery?

I know time is going to be hard to come by this year but in my opinion 3 point shooting is not the strength of this team and Norvell could help immensely with that. Amongst other things. Watching him and Matthews together in the exhibition game was a thing of beauty.

This is the year. I think we need all hands on deck and Norvell definitely adds value.

Goshzagit
11-22-2016, 07:40 PM
Does anyone have any updates on Norvell? How is his knee? Is there any improvement? Are they thinking he is going to need another surgery?

I know time is going to be hard to come by this year but in my opinion 3 point shooting is not the strength of this team and Norvell could help immensely with that. Amongst other things. Watching him and Matthews together in the exhibition game was a thing of beauty.

This is the year. I think we need all hands on deck and Norvell definitely adds value.

hasn't returned to 100% post surgery, can't quite get over the hump. His natural talent allows him to overcome most of the nagging issues, yet the Coaches saw what he's capable of and know he's not up to his potential. He is practicing & playing, yet still feeling lingering effects. No one knows about 2nd surgery, yet not ruling anything out given slow healing process. Still monitoring, same treatments, & back to practicing. Coming along, & everyone knows his ability, but no reason to risk further complications/injury. If this was any other season, Norvell would be playing -- even at 75% of his proven ability.

Norvell will be ready, waiting, & 'warmed up' for every game. Do not want to rush him, esp since his knee is 4 wks overdue in the healing department. Better than he was but still holding him back, & as a true freshman, you need your mind & body right to soar at this level.

Keeping Norvell's confidence up is important. He's a gamer who needs freedom to roam a bit. Tough to do in his current state & current guard depth.

Many reasons to hold him back...for now.

Most importantly, needs to show he can run, jump, cut, etc like he was in August. He was prettt dominant all Summer long. Not there since...

As good, even great as he played in exhibition, he had considerable knee soreness the entire next week. Slow going but not a bad thing...a sleeping giant as a prospect...but needs to get healthy.

Important to note, meniscus procedures are effective yet a gamble. So many types of tears & locations of tears. Also, high chance of residual "scar" tissue post shaving. Unlime ligament tears, meniscus are common for follow up procedures without further injury. Especially athletes.

Hope for the best. He's a tough kid, & has been playing through some pain since late August.

A really gifted kid too.

basketballzag
11-22-2016, 08:54 PM
Medical Red Shirt year IMO

jazzdelmar
11-23-2016, 03:33 AM
Orthopedic docs please weigh in. Doesn't continuing to practice forestall healing? I've had meniscus op and rest and rehab not full on activity was the Rx.

willandi
11-23-2016, 06:33 AM
In my opinion...the only opinions that matter are those of Norvell and the coaching staff. They will do what they perceive as the best for Norvell, and with his approval.

All other (including orthopedic opinion) is just opinion and is based on what we, as fans, want to see.

It will work out!

Goshzagit
11-23-2016, 07:11 AM
In my opinion...the only opinions that matter are those of Norvell and the coaching staff. They will do what they perceive as the best for Norvell, and with his approval.

All other (including orthopedic opinion) is just opinion and is based on what we, as fans, want to see.

It will work out!

Good point.

We should all keep in mind, this is Zach's decision as much as it is the Staff or Docs involved.

kitzbuel
11-23-2016, 09:03 AM
Orthopedic docs please weigh in. Doesn't continuing to practice forestall healing? I've had meniscus op and rest and rehab not full on activity was the Rx.

I had a meniscus repaired and was told to do normal activity on it as part of rehab (actually the doc wanted me to do increased activity because my normal activity had become a bit sedentary). I was running, cycling, and playing soccer, but it still really hurt and I could not use it normally for over 6 months. It finally healed up and I can't tell which knee was operated on now.

Goshzagit
11-23-2016, 09:10 AM
I had a meniscus repaired and was told to do normal activity on it as part of rehab (actually the doc wanted me to do increased activity because my normal activity had become a bit sedentary). I was running, cycling, and playing soccer, but it still really hurt and I could not use it normally for over 6 months. It finally healed up and I can't tell which knee was operated on now.

With any and all knee surgeries, they want patients up & moving within a few hrs post op. Rehab begins day 1. This has evolved in last 5 yrs. Also, meniscus is generally "removed" rather than "repaired" like ligament or tendon injuries. Mostly involved in allowing healing process around injury after shaving it or removing cartilage. Muscle groups aren't involved so weight bearing is fine post ectomy. Slow process & healing can be uncertain moreso in meniscus injuries/tears.

Mr Vulture
11-23-2016, 11:42 AM
I highly doubt he takes a medical redshirt unless you think he's going to be at Gonzaga for six years....


Medical Red Shirt year IMO

MileHigh
11-23-2016, 01:10 PM
I highly doubt he takes a medical redshirt unless you think he's going to be at Gonzaga for six years....

He wouldn't need a medical waiver (medical redshirt) since he hasn't played in any games. He can take his regular redshirt year and still have 4 years eligibility starting with the 17-18 season.

zag67
11-23-2016, 02:46 PM
I do not think he will redshirt unless he needs the extra time to heal and to be able to play without pain and he is capable of playing the way he can play. If that is true, then redshirt and practice would be the best for him. It will not have anything to do with minutes.

I also do not believe that they would put him in for any length of time until Dec 1 or Dec 10 depending on how good a shape he is in. If he and the coaches think that he is sound on Dec 1 he will get one game in before playing Arizona and Washington. If they want to be safe with him, then they will start slowly on Dec. 10 and have him ready league, WCC tournament, and March.

MileHigh
11-24-2016, 04:16 AM
The issue with Norvellredshirting is partly his knee, but mainly due to not enough minutes to go around. You only have 120 minutes at the 1/2/3 each game and you have Melson, Mathews, Goss and Perkins all, in my opinion, deserving of significant minutes based upon the fact they have all proven themselves in big games. Where would Norvell get his minutes? Right now I think what few is looking at is:

Goss 30min at pg,
Perkins 10min at pg 20min at sg,
Melson 5 min at sg 20 at sf
Mathews 5min at sg 20 at sf

To make it worthwhile to burn a year of eligibility for Norvell I would think he would need to get at least 10 minutes a game. Where would those 10 minutes come from?
Also, what about Alberts? If Norvell plays and is able to eek out those 8-10 minutes a game ahead of Alberts does that mean Alberts doesn't play at all?

It is a nice problem to have, but Few has to balance giving the freshman with great potential enough minutes to keep him happy and engaged and at the same time doing the same for the upper classmen who have grown to expect 25+ minutes a game. Often injuries crop up and take care of these playing time issues, but it will be interesting to see how it is handled going forward. It is clear that right now they are going to keep Norvell on ice so that a redshirt year is still possible

VaBeachZAG
11-24-2016, 05:05 AM
I had a meniscus repaired and was told to do normal activity on it as part of rehab (actually the doc wanted me to do increased activity because my normal activity had become a bit sedentary). I was running, cycling, and playing soccer, but it still really hurt and I could not use it normally for over 6 months. It finally healed up and I can't tell which knee was operated on now.

I had meniscus surgery 2.5 months ago (inner tear/shaving) and still experience substantial pain with any significant aerobic activity. Clearly the healing process varies from person to person. As a general rule, young kids should recover much sooner than older guys like myself. Sure hope my ultimate outcome mirror's your experience.

DixieZag
11-24-2016, 05:32 AM
The issue with Norvellredshirting is partly his knee, but mainly due to not enough minutes to go around. You only have 120 minutes at the 1/2/3 each game and you have Melson, Mathews, Goss and Perkins all, in my opinion, deserving of significant minutes based upon the fact they have all proven themselves in big games. Where would Norvell get his minutes? Right now I think what few is looking at is:

Goss 30min at pg,
Perkins 10min at pg 20min at sg,
Melson 5 min at sg 20 at sf
Mathews 5min at sg 20 at sf

To make it worthwhile to burn a year of eligibility for Norvell I would think he would need to get at least 10 minutes a game. Where would those 10 minutes come from?
Also, what about Alberts? If Norvell plays and is able to eek out those 8-10 minutes a game ahead of Alberts does that mean Alberts doesn't play at all?

It is a nice problem to have, but Few has to balance giving the freshman with great potential enough minutes to keep him happy and engaged and at the same time doing the same for the upper classmen who have grown to expect 25+ minutes a game. Often injuries crop up and take care of these playing time issues, but it will be interesting to see how it is handled going forward. It is clear that right now they are going to keep Norvell on ice so that a redshirt year is still possible

But, wait a sec. I'm not in any way putting Perk down, and I understand you have a personal interest in Perkins and that's great and normal.

Any my comment isn't any more about Perkins than all 4 of those guys you listed. Theoretically, and there's also a realistic chance (though smaller) that you are looking at those as if "locked-in" when it's conceivable that Norvelle - if pain free - could come out and blow the doors off any or all on that list.

"Upper classman who have grown to expect ...."

Well, yes, they do have the right to expect that, but also to expect that anyone who can come out and clearly bring a package that any of the four can't, to play behind that guy, whoever he is. Is it likely? Of course not. Is it possible? Of course. Diamonds can and do blow up in certain situations all over the country and when they do, if you're interested in winning, you've got to have them on the floor.

I've said throughout, "senior transfers who were stars elsewhere deserve to have their expectation of starting respected" but also always followed up with "and be removed if they've played their way out of the starting spot." Which, admittedly is a negative connotation, but can be based upon someone just flat takes everyone's breath away.

Those minutes are realistic, more so than the possibility I suggest. But, there are whispers about the guy's talent and when those whispers have a real foundation, every single minute, from every single one of those guys, is subject to being earned away by another. A guy may not like that, but to play on a top 10 team means to expect people who can challenge. Sorry for the long post to simply say "those minutes can't be set in stone."

MileHigh
11-24-2016, 05:46 AM
Agree 100% that minutes are not set in stone and players have to earn those minutes every day at practice and in games. If Norvell outplays those guys in practice and games then he will earn his minutes and someone will sit. I would think, at this point,in the staffs eyes, he has not proven he will take minutes from the proven guys which is why they are considering redshirting him

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-24-2016, 06:43 AM
The issue with Norvellredshirting is partly his knee, but mainly due to not enough minutes to go around. You only have 120 minutes at the 1/2/3 each game and you have Melson, Mathews, Goss and Perkins all, in my opinion, deserving of significant minutes based upon the fact they have all proven themselves in big games. Where would Norvell get his minutes? Right now I think what few is looking at is:

Goss 30min at pg,
Perkins 10min at pg 20min at sg,
Melson 5 min at sg 20 at sf
Mathews 5min at sg 20 at sf

To make it worthwhile to burn a year of eligibility for Norvell I would think he would need to get at least 10 minutes a game. Where would those 10 minutes come from?
Also, what about Alberts? If Norvell plays and is able to eek out those 8-10 minutes a game ahead of Alberts does that mean Alberts doesn't play at all?

It is a nice problem to have, but Few has to balance giving the freshman with great potential enough minutes to keep him happy and engaged and at the same time doing the same for the upper classmen who have grown to expect 25+ minutes a game. Often injuries crop up and take care of these playing time issues, but it will be interesting to see how it is handled going forward. It is clear that right now they are going to keep Norvell on ice so that a redshirt year is still possible

You're assuming Zags will never need to bring in Jones, once he is healed and ready, as a defensive stopper at the 3 with more size than the three guard lineup allows. I'm hoping he proves to be good enough to earn 8-10 minutes per game because the elite teams have size at the '3' and Zags just may need more size there for some key defensive stops at a crucial time of the season....hopefully Sweet 16 or Elite Eight kind of crucial.

I am rooting for Jones to prove himself as a guy who can earn minutes and help this team.

Larryzag
11-24-2016, 10:57 AM
You're assuming Zags will never need to bring in Jones, once he is healed and ready, as a defensive stopper at the 3 with more size than the three guard lineup allows. I'm hoping he proves to be good enough to earn 8-10 minutes per game because the elite teams have size at the '3' and Zags just may need more size there for some key defensive stops at a crucial time of the season....hopefully Sweet 16 or Elite Eight kind of crucial.

I am rooting for Jones to prove himself as a guy who can earn minutes and help this team.

I agree with this. Jones will get minutes once he's healed.

Vanzagger
11-24-2016, 01:01 PM
Yeah, but the body transformation wouldn't have happened without the RS. And without that, Olynk would've continued to be the same player he was before the RS. It wasn't just adding muscle, it was hand-eye coordination, general body coordination, stuff like that. Things that there just isn't time to work on during a normal season unless you are sitting out.

Coach admitted Kelly was to torching the starters as a scout team player his redshirt year. Who knows what he would have done his first 2 years with consistent PT.

Goshzagit
11-24-2016, 01:33 PM
I agree with this. Jones will get minutes once he's healed.

Coach Few stated Jones will rec minutes when he's healthy.

Says he is 'fills in the blanks' and brings the energy this team needs and sometimes lacks with the personality.

LouisianaZag
11-24-2016, 05:59 PM
Roger that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Talked to Norvelle's Mom tonight. Super nice lady. She said he is definitely redshirting period. They were all for it and so is their Zag. He will dress out with the team. Larsen was there also Much slimmer kid than I had thought all arms and legs. My wife said he looks like a Viking and that's a good thing LOL

LouisianaZag
11-24-2016, 06:03 PM
Coach Few stated Jones will rec minutes when he's healthy.

Says he is 'fills in the blanks' and brings the energy this team needs and sometimes lacks with the personality.He was the only kid who didn't play tonight. I saw a couple of coaches talking to him before they cleared the bench. I guess he just isn't ready.

Mantua
11-24-2016, 06:07 PM
The recovery time also depends on the extent of the problem.

btzag
11-24-2016, 06:54 PM
Talked to Norvelle's Mom tonight. Super nice lady. She said he is definitely redshirting period. They were all for it and so is their Zag. He will dress out with the team. Larsen was there also Much slimmer kid than I had thought all arms and legs. My wife said he looks like a Viking and that's a good thing LOL

Well there you go, thanks LouisianaZag!

zagsfanforlife
11-24-2016, 09:23 PM
Thats too bad. This team could use another knockdown shooter. Have a lot of guys that are inconsistent shooters outside josh and jordan.

MileHigh
11-25-2016, 06:09 AM
[[/QUOTE]

I never met a parent that wasn't a fan of the redshirt year

5 free years of college vs. 4 free years of college, no brainier if you think about it

ProVeeZag
11-25-2016, 06:36 AM
Talked to Norvelle's Mom tonight. Super nice lady. She said he is definitely redshirting period. They were all for it and so is their Zag. He will dress out with the team. Larsen was there also Much slimmer kid than I had thought all arms and legs. My wife said he looks like a Viking and that's a good thing LOL

Sorry to hear we won't be able to see Zach Norvelle display his considerable skills against live competition this year. Good to know both Zach and his mom are embracing the redshirt season. I truly believe he is going to be a great Zag down the road. The current congestion at the guard positions for PT should be somewhat relieved next season. Redshirting takes off the pressure to return to action too soon. He can use this season to "harden up" his physique and further hone his game.

Switching gears...I was fortunate enough to get great seats at the SDSU game and I sat directly behind Larsen. Viking-esque for sure, he is a "slim-jim" at this point. He can...and likely will... carry significantly more weight and muscle a year or two down the road.

Go Zags ... dump the Gators!

maynard g krebs
11-25-2016, 11:46 AM
The current congestion at the guard positions for PT should be somewhat relieved next season.

Liked your post mostly but gonna disagree with this a little bit. Only Matthews graduates, and it doesn't look like anyone else is an early draft prospect now. So Norvell replaces Matthews, and Kispert and Wade come in. I've seen Kispert live and imo is so freakin' good he'd challenge for pt if he was on the roster right now. Scored 39 in the champ game of the Jamal Crawford pro-am league last summer; dominated v older pros. Superb shooter and passer sees the floor and reacts immediately, big strong wing w/ a high IQ. Just as good as Norvell imo, and I love both of them. And Wade is two years out of hs. I guess either/both could redshirt, but hard to see given their abilities and Wade's age; he'd be a 24-25 yr old senior if he took a rs.

So I think it's even more crowded next yr.

Corky
11-25-2016, 12:08 PM
To me Wade seems to be a sure red shirt as he won't have played competitively for two years.

maynard g krebs
11-25-2016, 12:39 PM
To me Wade seems to be a sure red shirt as he won't have played competitively for two years.

Not exactly sure of Wade's age, but isn't there a rule about players over age 20 having an eligibility limit? Oregon's Chris Boucher, who started playing organized ball at age 19 and started JC at 20 or 21, last year was listed as a senior w/ only 1 season of eligibility coming out of JC until the NCAA granted him an exception to the age rule and an extra year. Not sure how Mormon missions would effect this.

Anybody know the details of this rule?

Outraged
11-25-2016, 12:52 PM
Wade will play releiving one of our points. He better than you think. Smart player will run the system. His freshman year will be a learning year.

Hoopaholic
11-25-2016, 01:01 PM
Not exactly sure of Wade's age, but isn't there a rule about players over age 20 having an eligibility limit? Oregon's Chris Boucher, who started playing organized ball at age 19 and started JC at 20 or 21, last year was listed as a senior w/ only 1 season of eligibility coming out of JC until the NCAA granted him an exception to the age rule and an extra year. Not sure how Mormon missions would effect this.

Anybody know the details of this rule?

Yes 5 years to play 4 but starts one year after you graduate from high school

Zags_Fanatic
11-25-2016, 01:32 PM
Not exactly sure of Wade's age, but isn't there a rule about players over age 20 having an eligibility limit? Oregon's Chris Boucher, who started playing organized ball at age 19 and started JC at 20 or 21, last year was listed as a senior w/ only 1 season of eligibility coming out of JC until the NCAA granted him an exception to the age rule and an extra year. Not sure how Mormon missions would effect this.

Anybody know the details of this rule?

Mormon missions have an exception. He can still redshirt and play a full 4 years if that ends up being the best option. He will be 20 when he comes to GU so he could be playing still as a 25 year old. As a strong player with limited pro prospects his maturity will be so awesome to have as an upperclassman. Couldn't be more excited to see Wade and Norvell together.

ZAG 4 LIFE
11-25-2016, 01:36 PM
And Kispert... nice trio

ProVeeZag
11-25-2016, 02:56 PM
Liked your post mostly but gonna disagree with this a little bit. Only Matthews graduates, and it doesn't look like anyone else is an early draft prospect now. So Norvell replaces Matthews, and Kispert and Wade come in. I've seen Kispert live and imo is so freakin' good he'd challenge for pt if he was on the roster right now. Scored 39 in the champ game of the Jamal Crawford pro-am league last summer; dominated v older pros. Superb shooter and passer sees the floor and reacts immediately, big strong wing w/ a high IQ. Just as good as Norvell imo, and I love both of them. And Wade is two years out of hs. I guess either/both could redshirt, but hard to see given their abilities and Wade's age; he'd be a 24-25 yr old senior if he took a rs.

So I think it's even more crowded next yr.

My bad ... for some reason I was thinking Melson was a senior. I still would expect a fully healthy Norvell would have the edge over the incoming Kispert; can't comment personally on Jess Wade, but from what this board is saying, he's got the game to make an impact. Maybe GU's getting to that point where even an excellent D-1 player ends up transferring out in order to get PT. One thing to remember: you can't predict injuries, so better to "overstock the cupboard".

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-25-2016, 03:40 PM
The rotations will work themselves out. Most of these kids are mature enough to understand that their playing time will increase later in their careers.

Starting next year, Melson will probably step into a starting role after Mathews graduates. A year later, NWG and Melson will graduate to open up more time for Norvell, Kispert, and Wade. Perkins will then move on and open a starting spot for Wade.

Murphy outgo lifer
11-26-2016, 10:59 PM
Any updates on health?

I know I have read that people have heard that he is definitely red-shirting barring injury, however, I am still hoping that one day I will read that he is fully-recovered and tearing it up. I think this team desperately needs another 3 point threat not to mention all the other intangibles he offers. The only consistent 3 point threats are Josh and Jordan but we have all seen Jordan go cold and it would be nice to have another threat off the bench. I think this is the only weak spot on this team and I really think Norvell could really help us come March and definitely sooner if his health comes around.

ZAG 4 LIFE
11-27-2016, 06:16 AM
I believe The eligibility clock starts when you become a full time student...
So I believe Wade would have 5 to play 4 upon his return.
I'd guess with that in mind, if NWG leaves for the league after this year,
Wade is the backup point year one... if NWG stays for his senior year,
Then I could see where a RS might be possible for Jesse.