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VinnyZag
10-14-2016, 03:36 PM
On suspicion of "physical control" of a vehicle while under the influence. Spokesman story here (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/oct/14/gonzaga-guard-josh-perkins-faces-misdemeanor-charg/).

Ekrub
10-14-2016, 03:40 PM
The benefit of getting pulled over in spokane vs cheney

ZagNative
10-14-2016, 03:42 PM
Hoo boy ....

raise the zag
10-14-2016, 03:47 PM
No time is rational, yet c'mon manůso much on the line. Community role model, starting guard at Gonzaga, season just about to begin, potentially being drafted, etc.

Sunday morning at 4am?? Doesn't he have class and/or practice on Monday?

Extremely poor judgement and decision making on his part. Hope he learns from it, is remorseful, and receives the appropriate punishment -- have to suspect a suspension of some kind.

Dumb move.

You are better than this Josh. Your Dad knows, the school knows, and I hope to God you know it.

VinnyZag
10-14-2016, 03:49 PM
No time is rational, yet c'mon man…so much on the line. Community role model, starting guard at Gonzaga, season just about to begin, potentially being drafted, etc.

Sunday morning at 4am?? Doesn't he have class and/or practice on Monday?

Extremely poor judgement and decision making on his part. Hope he learns from it, is remorseful, and receives the appropriate punishment -- have to suspect a suspension of some kind.

Dumb move.

You are better than this Josh. Your Dad knows, the school knows, and I hope to God you know it.

I did stupid stuff in college, too. So I'm in no position to criticize.

Worthington
10-14-2016, 03:52 PM
He's a good kid, he'll learn from this. If he gets in trouble again then I'll start to worry

vandalzag
10-14-2016, 03:54 PM
I did stupid stuff in college, too. So I'm in no position to criticize.

Yep prepare yourself for the holier than thou posts to follow.
Bottom line dumb move and learn from it. Thankful nobody was hurt.

hooter73
10-14-2016, 03:54 PM
Ugg, heytvelt 2.0

raise the zag
10-14-2016, 03:55 PM
I did stupid stuff in college, too. So I'm in no position to criticize.

So did I. And I wish some would have criticized my choices more, or shared disappointment in them, or expected more from me.

Also, I wasn't a local Celebrity during my time at GU or Spokane. I didn't start on the bball team, nor receive a full-ride schollie as a GU student, or at 4am on Sunday, 3 hrs before class or practice.

Josh should be held to a higher standard, especially this time of year. This is NOT off-season. If he can't resist driving while clearly influenced under something, then this kind of crap can wait til Summer, preferable never.

nish_mode
10-14-2016, 03:58 PM
Had to look up his age...good thing he's 21.

Wasn't Heytvelt doing drugs?

kitzbuel
10-14-2016, 03:58 PM
Few's comments:

Darnay Tripp on Twitter: "Here is Mark Few's statement on Josh Perkins' arrest early Sunday for physical control of a vehicle under the influence. https://t.co/yRIzmmiqBK" (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/2dQRRwm



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Goshzagit
10-14-2016, 04:02 PM
Had to look up his age...good thing he's 21.

Wasn't Heytvelt doing drugs?

Technically, we do not know if Josh was under influence of drugs or alcohol. Same charge as long as its not controlled substance. Pain pills, Marijuana, Alcohol all carry same charge in WA.

If marijuana, this could make national sports news based on implications.

I do speculate a suspension will be in order, yet I'm sure Coach Few, along with the school will handle this internally. Also, the WCC could step in and force a move as well if not satisfied with ruling.

Time will tell…yet doubt Perkins is suited up Game 1.

kitzbuel
10-14-2016, 04:03 PM
Few's comments:

Darnay Tripp on Twitter: "Here is Mark Few's statement on Josh Perkins' arrest early Sunday for physical control of a vehicle under the influence. https://t.co/yRIzmmiqBK" (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/2dQRRwm



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I see it in the spokesman article, too. Viewing and posting slowly from Kuwait.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

MontanaCoyote
10-14-2016, 04:10 PM
I've worried some about all the publicity going to some players heads. It happens...can make some feel impervious to
to the strictures of rules and the obligations of responsibility. I hope, as raise the zag posted, Josh takes this infraction
seriously, makes amends and apologizes to his teammates and the ZAG community. He's already shown us that he's a good kid, so I have every confidence that he will. A big mistake but not one he can't learn from and become an even better person.

jake
10-14-2016, 04:11 PM
Most people do stupid stuff in college. That doesn't mean it cant' be criticized. There is a difference between making broad sweeping judgments about a person's overall character and criticizing the lack of judgment and stupidity in a particular decision. I have a sibling that got a DUI. He's a good guy. I didn't abandon him. He learned from his poor choice, but he made a dumb, poor, decision. The fact that those kind of decisions are generally more concentrated in our youth, doesn't make them dumb, poor decisions. Hopefully Perkins is appropriately punished, allowed to learn from this, and doesn't do it again.

VaBeachZAG
10-14-2016, 04:32 PM
Most people do stupid stuff in college. That doesn't mean it cant' be criticized. There is a difference between making broad sweeping judgments about a person's overall character and criticizing the lack of judgment and stupidity in a particular decision. I have a sibling that got a DUI. He's a good guy. I didn't abandon him. He learned from his poor choice, but he made a dumb, poor, decision. The fact that those kind of decisions are generally more concentrated in our youth, doesn't make them dumb, poor decisions. Hopefully Perkins is appropriately punished, allowed to learn from this, and doesn't do it again.

I'm not impressed with the often tendered excuse "college kids do stupid stuff." Admittedly, students "do stupid stuff" but there should be no going easy on Josh. As noted above, he's 21, so he is not a kid, he is a man. There are many men and women in uniform younger than Josh who are put in life and death situations, so his age should not be an excuse. I am sure he is well aware of his responsibility to represent the University in an acceptable manner, and in this one instance has failed that responsibility. I am not suggesting he be thrown under the bus, but he needs to fully accept responsibility for his action in this case and willingly accept whatever consequence the coaching staff/University deem appropriate. And, yes, the consequence needs to be something more substantial than harsh language (i.e., severe counseling).

MileHighZag
10-14-2016, 04:34 PM
Also, I wasn't a local Celebrity during my time at GU or Spokane. I didn't start on the bball team, nor receive a full-ride schollie as a GU student, or at 4am on Sunday, 3 hrs before class or practice.

This was early Sunday morning, so after a late Saturday night. I'm guessing he had no class or practice on Sunday.

sittingon50
10-14-2016, 04:40 PM
The benefit of getting pulled over in spokane vs cheney

Or Pullman?

seacatfan
10-14-2016, 04:40 PM
Physical control of a vehicle? Is that otherwise known as driving or is it something totally different? Seems like odd language.

GU might not be the only one. Nothing substantiated so far, just rumors swirling around, but Arizona might possibly get hit by a suspension to one of their key players.

VinnyZag
10-14-2016, 04:43 PM
Physical control of a vehicle? Is that otherwise known as driving or is it something totally different? Seems like odd language.

GU might not be the only one. Nothing substantiated so far, just rumors swirling around, but Arizona might possibly get hit by a suspension to one of their key players.

There are lawyers who are members here who know this better than I, but (if I understand it correctly) generally it means you're intoxicated and in your car, but not driving. So, if you're sleeping one off in your car, AND have the keys with you, you could be cited for physical control.

Zagdawg
10-14-2016, 04:47 PM
Well dang. Some would call it a "learning experience" -- all about how he handles it and takes care of what the school and program decides.

Ekrub
10-14-2016, 04:48 PM
Physical control of a vehicle? Is that otherwise known as driving or is it something totally different? Seems like odd language.

GU might not be the only one. Nothing substantiated so far, just rumors swirling around, but Arizona might possibly get hit by a suspension to one of their key players.

It's a misdemeanor. Again, advantage for a GU player to be pulled over in spokane vs cheney, or as noted above, in Pullman.

Zagceo
10-14-2016, 04:53 PM
Different burden of proof ...same penalty

link (http://www.duiwashington.com/physical-control-of-a-vehicle-while-under-the-influence-in-washington)

vandalzag
10-14-2016, 04:54 PM
This was early Sunday morning, so after a late Saturday night. I'm guessing he had no class or practice on Sunday.

Do not let facts like what day it actually was get in the way of a snap judgement. You lose your moral superiority if you worry about details.

webspinnre
10-14-2016, 05:03 PM
I'm not impressed with the often tendered excuse "college kids do stupid stuff." Admittedly, students "do stupid stuff" but there should be no going easy on Josh. As noted above, he's 21, so he is not a kid, he is a man. There are many men and women in uniform younger than Josh who are put in life and death situations, so his age should not be an excuse. I am sure he is well aware of his responsibility to represent the University in an acceptable manner, and in this one instance has failed that responsibility. I am not suggesting he be thrown under the bus, but he needs to fully accept responsibility for his action in this case and willingly accept whatever consequence the coaching staff/University deem appropriate. And, yes, the consequence needs to be something more substantial than harsh language (i.e., severe counseling).

Most importantly, there is a difference between doign something stupid, and doing something stupid involving alcohol or drugs and motor vehicles.

MTZag03
10-14-2016, 05:32 PM
I'm not impressed with the often tendered excuse "college kids do stupid stuff." Admittedly, students "do stupid stuff" but there should be no going easy on Josh. As noted above, he's 21, so he is not a kid, he is a man. There are many men and women in uniform younger than Josh who are put in life and death situations, so his age should not be an excuse. I am sure he is well aware of his responsibility to represent the University in an acceptable manner, and in this one instance has failed that responsibility. I am not suggesting he be thrown under the bus, but he needs to fully accept responsibility for his action in this case and willingly accept whatever consequence the coaching staff/University deem appropriate. And, yes, the consequence needs to be something more substantial than harsh language (i.e., severe counseling).

I did worse. I never got caught and I regret doing it. At the time I didn't understand that it was really serious. I feel for these guys. Some people grow up under a narrative that you can never be around a car with any amount of alcohol. Others like me grew up with parents actively drinking while driving. It really changes perspectives. It took me some time to realize what was okay and what wasn't. I don't want to throw any kid under the bus, especially if they were "sleeping it off" rather than actually driving. I agree that he should face legitimate punishments and learn from it though.

jazzdelmar
10-14-2016, 05:37 PM
Few's statement is a little wishy washy, imo. Assume it's a placeholder comment and when the details are available he will be stronger in terms of condemning the behavior, meting out punishment and hoping for a good outcome.

Hitting the national press. He was arrested not only cited.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2669698-josh-perkins-arrested-latest-details-comments-reaction-on-gonzaga-guard

Once and Future Zag
10-14-2016, 05:49 PM
As Few seems to be a bit (understatedly) of a martinet, I trust that he will not make an inappropriately lenient decision for both Josh as a Student/Athlete, the BB team/program in general, as well as the University.

btzag
10-14-2016, 05:49 PM
Bad choice by Josh and I'm sure there is disappointment from all angles including Josh and his family. He will pay for this in embarrassment and any disciplinary actions. And most importantly needs to learn from this and move on in a positive direction. You cannot give a kid a 'pass' on this but we should also not bury him.

DixieZag
10-14-2016, 05:52 PM
Physical control of a vehicle? Is that otherwise known as driving or is it something totally different? Seems like odd language.

GU might not be the only one. Nothing substantiated so far, just rumors swirling around, but Arizona might possibly get hit by a suspension to one of their key players.

Statute


RCW 46.61.504



Physical control of vehicle under the influence.


(1) A person is guilty of being in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or any drug if the person has actual physical control of a vehicle within this state:

(a) And the person has, within two hours after being in actual physical control of the vehicle, an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or higher as shown by analysis of the person's breath or blood made under RCW 46.61.506; or

(b) The person has, within two hours after being in actual physical control of a vehicle, a THC concentration of 5.00 or higher as shown by analysis of the person's blood made under RCW 46.61.506; or

(c) While the person is under the influence of or affected by intoxicating liquor or any drug; or

(d) While the person is under the combined influence of or affected by intoxicating liquor and any drug

zagbeliever
10-14-2016, 05:55 PM
Josh H totally turned his life around after his arrest At senior night he cried and thanked everyone for the second chance. Josh P is a good kid but 21 year olds are still kids and do stupid things. Hopefully he will face the consequences and do whatever he needs to redeem himself.

northsidezagfan
10-14-2016, 06:01 PM
I did stupid stuff in college, too. So I'm in no position to criticize.

+1

bartruff1
10-14-2016, 07:05 PM
We got caught doing the same thing....car was parked....we were all under 21 except for the guy who bought the beer....he was on the basketball team and could have been charged with contributing or something ....what happened?

Nothing....we had to go to court, got a lecture from the judge....nothing in the media...the player went on to have a very good career ......

Different time....no one outside of Spokane knew what Gun ZA ga was...

NotoriousZ
10-14-2016, 07:23 PM
I'd bet the vast majority of us have done stuff worse that that. I'm just glad no one was hurt. Josh will recover from this, he's a good person.

Pargo the Destroyer
10-14-2016, 07:27 PM
He admitted he was getting ready to drive when the cops rolled up on them. Go get wasted in your room/house, or, hoof it. Drive a car under the influence....you're a dumbass.

NotoriousZ
10-14-2016, 07:55 PM
He admitted he was getting ready to drive when the cops rolled up on them. Go get wasted in your room/house, or, hoof it. Drive a car under the influence....you're a dumbass.

Oh I didn' t see that. Thought he was just sitting/resting in the car.

willandi
10-14-2016, 08:07 PM
He admitted he was getting ready to drive when the cops rolled up on them. Go get wasted in your room/house, or, hoof it. Drive a car under the influence....you're a dumbass.

where did he say that? I didn't see it either.

Zag 77
10-14-2016, 08:11 PM
Mandatory fines and assessments for a DUI are a minimum of $1100. Administrative suspension of drivers's license depends on if he refused breath test or not and what his alcohol level reading registered. Typically if his blood alcohol was not much more than the .08 minimum he might get a reduction to First Degree Neg Driving if this is a first offense. Probation for 2 years and requirement to get substance abuse eval and treatment.

He won't be needing a car for awhile.

I would not be surprised if Few suspends him for 3 -5 games.

CDC84
10-14-2016, 08:12 PM
This is not even comparable to the Heytvelt situation. The severity of "crimes" were very different, but also the extent of the press coverage. As of 9:10pm PT, there isn't one word about this at espn.com. The Heytvelt arrest was a national news story within hours.

Not saying that what he did was excusable in anyway. But this isn't JH 2.0. Also, Perkins doesn't have, shall we say, a "track record." It's way more surprising me to me than the JH arrest. JP is a deeply religious kid who I am sure is deeply shameful of his behavior and the embarrassment he has caused to himself, his family and his program.

Zagceo
10-14-2016, 08:38 PM
Seattle Times (http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/other-sports/zags-josh-perkins-is-cited-for-physical-control-of-a-vehicle-while-under-the-influence/) nothing new

Reborn
10-14-2016, 08:53 PM
Gonzaga and Mark Few will deal with this in the correct way. I see Mark Few as someone who likes to help his players become better men. I agree with CDC that it does not seem anything like Josh H case. I feel bad for Josh, but I'm also glad he will now have to deal with this NOW. i HAVE confidence in him and his team in dealing with this. There are no mistakes in God's world.

Go Zags!!!

Pargo the Destroyer
10-14-2016, 09:06 PM
where did he say that? I didn't see it either.

http://www.khq.com/story/33396193/gonzaga-point-guard-arrested

Fwiw, no judgement from me, nobody will disagree this was a showing of extremely poor judgement. He seems like a good guy who made a dumb choice. Nobody can say they havent at some point in their life. He will learn from this and grow.

GrizZAG
10-14-2016, 09:30 PM
A friend got a DUI sitting in his Expedition in his own driveway in Yakima. He was talking on his cell phone and did not drive at all that evening. It stuck because he had the keys in the ignition and the motor was running (winter time duh). It was a business call and he went out to the car for a quiet place to talk.

Speaking of a time long past, my underage buddies and I were out partying in a car and pulled over in a park to drink beer. A city cop knocked on the window and told us to go home after shining a flashlight in each of our faces. We were sh**faced, We went home...end of story. Different standards today.

coolhandzag
10-14-2016, 09:34 PM
I got so drunk at Jack and Dans once I walked all the way up Hamiltion until I got under the big red "S" to figure out I wasn't walking down Sharp. I think I passed out in somebody's bushes on Sinto trying to get back to my apartment. Not the best choice.

Josh made a bad call, and he will pay the price. This act in and of itself doesn't make him a bad person.

Want to rail on Josh? Think he is a bad person? There has been far worse behavior from a member of the ball club. Few and inhad a nice short discussion about it.

Zerogame
10-14-2016, 10:20 PM
I remember puking beer and popcorn after winning my race at our conference championship. More than once I remember hanging with our coaches at the local watering hole before and after meets. These kids today are under a magnifying glass, it is a wonder that more student athletes aren't suspended for one thing or another.

3XaZag
10-15-2016, 12:47 AM
Any lawyer will tell you that the details...what lawyers sometimes call the fact pattern of a case, are everything in these situations. And we still don't know enough of the details. At first glance, this situation appears to be much less significant than the Heytvelt situation.

Were there positive drug tests, or 'just' alcohol? (Not trying to minimize alcohol and driving, but many drugs put things in different class). If 'just' alcohol, what were the readings? A .08 is about a half of a beer from the cops saying 'have a good night' and sending him on his way. Higher readings get more serious. What were the circumstances of his being out that late? Having a few beers and watching a movie with friends, or something more. Lots of questions, and at this point we don't know, and frankly, we don't need to know. What we need to do is hope for the least damaging details and support him no matter what.

Both the criminal penalties, and GU's response will conform to these details, and depend on how Josh responds. Early reports of Josh's co-operation with the police and Few's comments of him co-operating with the University 'process' are all good signs. If the facts turn out to be minimal (i.e. a few beers with friends and a late night movie - or similar innocuous activity) that resulted in borderline alcohol levels where he didn't feel very impaired and made a poor judgment; then I would expect this will be resolved with a brief suspension, some counseling and moving on. Lets hope that's the case.

As a final note, advice to all in anything like this situation ...."keep your mouth shut". At the moment everyone thinks they can make it better by saying something. Don't do it !!! Mentioning he was getting prepared to drive might have been the difference in being told to sleep it off, and given advice not to drive; and actually getting arrested. We probably won't ever know the mind of the cops at the moment, but they make these judgment calls every shift, and without that admission, their judgment might have been different.

MDABE80
10-15-2016, 01:07 AM
Any lawyer will tell you that the details...what lawyers sometimes call the fact pattern of a case, are everything in these situations. And we still don't know enough of the details. At first glance, this situation appears to be much less significant than the Heytvelt situation.

Were their positive drug tests, or 'just' alcohol? (Not trying to minimize alcohol and driving, but many drugs put things in different class). If 'just' alcohol, what were the readings? A .08 is about a half of a beer from the cops saying 'have a good night' and sending him on his way. Higher readings get more serious. What were the circumstances of his being out that late? Having a few beers and watching a movie with friends, or something more. Lots of questions, and at this point we don't know, and frankly, we don't need to know. What we need to do is hope for the least damaging details and support him no matter what.

Both the criminal penalties, and GU's response will conform to these details, and depend on how Josh responds. Early reports of Josh's co-operation with the police and Few's comments of him co-operating with the University 'process' are all good signs. If the facts turn out to be minimal (i.e. a few beers with friends and a late night movie (or similar innocuous activity) that resulted in borderline alcohol levels where he didn't feel very impaired and made a poor judgment; then I would expect this will be resolved with a brief suspension, some counseling and moving on. Lets hope that's the case.

As a final note, advice to all in anything like this situation ...."keep your mouth shut". At the moment everyone thinks they can make it better by saying something. Don't do it !!! Mentioning he was getting prepared to drive might have been the difference in being told to sleep it off, and given advice not to drive; and actually getting arrested. We probably won't ever know the mind of the cops at the moment, but they make these judgment calls every shift, and without that admission, their judgment might have been different.

Best advice from 3 X. When it comes to this type of thing, the constables are not your friends.
This is a careless thing. Not much to see. Wish it hadn't happened but I can think of far worse. Josh will grow up a bit. Doubt he'll get near this type of thing again.

Zagger
10-15-2016, 01:07 AM
Too many people die in drunken driving accidents. Being first on the scene of a multiple fatality drunken driving accident years ago still seems like it was much more recent. I'm so glad Josh wasn't driving. Drinking & driving is a very serious issue. The consequences of such can change lives forever. I'm not bringing this up to propose harsh penalties for Josh. Just want to say something for those who no longer have a voice in these matters.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 03:09 AM
Too many people die in drunken driving accidents. Being first on the scene of a multiple fatality drunken driving accident years ago still seems like it was much more recent. I'm so glad Josh wasn't driving. Drinking & driving is a very serious issue. The consequences of such can change lives forever. I'm not bringing this up to propose harsh penalties for Josh. Just want to say something for those who no longer have a force in these matters.

Thank you, Zagger. And MADD and SADD. Finally someone with the right perspective. All this "boy was I drunk last night," "we have all done a whole lot worse, lemme tell ya," comments on this thread are nothing more than testiosterone-fueled bleating that adds nothing to the discourse on a very important matter. He did the wrong thing. It was WRONG, and if this holds up as reported he should be punished, perhaps by the university but certainly by Few. Three to 5 games is a good guess, as most have said. My concern is that in his first statement, admittedly out of the box with no context, Few has rhetorically laid down some guidelines that may augur no meaningful punishment at all. Just saying. He handled the Josh thing well; others not much, such as KO's mysterious suspension at the start of his last year. A lot of eyes are on the coach......

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-15-2016, 04:41 AM
I'm sort of down the middle on this one...agree with Jazz this is not an incident to be quickly brushed aside with a "oh, boys will be boys...I did stupid things in college too" attitude. On the other hand, having recently read a great Sports Illustrated article about the Dallas Cowboys' rookie quarterback Dak Prescott, who had a DUI in college that many believe caused him to drop in the draft, I would hope we can all refrain from being overly critical of this young man for making a single poor decision. People make mistakes, people learn from them and life goes on...they may even become better people/professionals as a result like the Dallas Cowboys starting QB.

It may prove to be a turning point in his life in ways we will never really know. I personally hope Coach Few comes down on the heavy side (minimum 3 game suspension, which means missing ESPN2 Season Tip-off game vs San Diego Stage). This would send a message to this team with so many youngsters and new players that accountability is real here in Spokane and, frankly, also reward players like Silas Melson and Bryan Alberts (guys who have sacrificed a lot for the TEAM and are not making dumb, selfish decisions) with playing time on the big ESPN stage.

Josh is tough....and he can handle some tough Few love on this one. Once he accepts whatever disciplinary action is taken like a man, JP can return to the spotlight and begin earning back his teammates/fans respect and affection.

Go Josh...I am rooting for you!!

zagsfanforlife
10-15-2016, 05:11 AM
Thank you, Zagger. And MADD and SADD. Finally someone with the right perspective. All this "boy was I drunk last night," "we have all done a whole lot worse, lemme tell ya," comments on this thread are nothing more than testiosterone-fueled bleating that adds nothing to the discourse on a very important matter. He did the wrong thing. It was WRONG, and if this holds up as reported he should be punished, perhaps by the university but certainly by Few. Three to 5 games is a good guess, as most have said. My concern is that in his first statement, admittedly out of the box with no context, Few has rhetorically laid down some guidelines that may augur no meaningful punishment at all. Just saying. He handled the Josh thing well; others not much, such as KO's mysterious suspension at the start of his last year. A lot of eyes are on the coach......

I am glad a few of you called a spade a spade on this one. While Josh seems like a good kid and this may be an isolated incident, to downplay drunk driving, or drinking while near a vehicle as something all college kids do, and as a "boys will be boys" type of thing is frankly irresponsible. As someone who has lost good friends at the hands of a drunk driver, I know even good people can cause significant damage to families for LIFETIMES by the decisions they made while drunk. Josh i am sure will recover and learn from it. But please dont downplay the severity of the situation as just something most college kids do. There is UBER, LYFT these days.. as a guy who is not too far out of college myself-- these kids should have no excuses anymore. $10 uber ride or a misdemeanor, or God forbid the rest of your life in jail and families ruined.

Zagdawg
10-15-2016, 07:32 AM
Jazz going after Few already for not being tough enough on him-- is so non-jazz like--what is the world coming to (yes sarcasm).

Let's see what the school and program decide --they have an established process for this type of situation and they will follow it.

DixieZag
10-15-2016, 08:19 AM
I'm not commenting on either the "we all have made mistakes" side or the "this is reckless and puts lives at risk" - both are true. I also agree that some context is necessary to really understand.

The thing is, Few has that context already, so I'm a little confused as to the delay and the vague response. Lots of people say "wait until he is convicted" or "He is presumed innocent ..." Yes, he is, but that's a court of law where the standard is very very high. Josh could get reduced or thrown out charges by the prosecutor based on what they can and cannot prove. Outside the criminal justice system, a lesser standard applies and Few has likely had Josh sitting in his office telling him the whole story, so I don't understand the wait. Maybe it's not Few's decision, maybe that's made higher up.

Anyway, I am surprised that people are saying 3-5 games, which seems pretty light to me. To me, I'd think the University's expectation would be to miss a month to 2 months of the year, which would be 6-12 games. I don't know what I think, I can make arguments for leniency and the hammer, but I would have predicted the University to bring down a more severe penalty. Maybe I'm wrong.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 09:06 AM
I'm not commenting on either the "we all have made mistakes" side or the "this is reckless and puts lives at risk" - both are true. I also agree that some context is necessary to really understand.

The thing is, Few has that context already, so I'm a little confused as to the delay and the vague response. Lots of people say "wait until he is convicted" or "He is presumed innocent ..." Yes, he is, but that's a court of law where the standard is very very high. Josh could get reduced or thrown out charges by the prosecutor based on what they can and cannot prove. Outside the criminal justice system, a lesser standard applies and Few has likely had Josh sitting in his office telling him the whole story, so I don't understand the wait. Maybe it's not Few's decision, maybe that's made higher up.

Anyway, I am surprised that people are saying 3-5 games, which seems pretty light to me. To me, I'd think the University's expectation would be to miss a month to 2 months of the year, which would be 6-12 games. I don't know what I think, I can make arguments for leniency and the hammer, but I would have predicted the University to bring down a more severe penalty. Maybe I'm wrong.


Bravo, Dix. But trod lightly as that sounds suspiciously like a criticism of The Coach.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 09:07 AM
Jazz going after Few already for not being tough enough on him-- is so non-jazz like--what is the world coming to (yes sarcasm).

Let's see what the school and program decide --they have an established process for this type of situation and they will follow it.

Curious, why was the first sentence, the snark attack, necessary as your second is perfectly rational?

GoZags
10-15-2016, 09:16 AM
He handled the Josh thing well; others not much, such as KO's mysterious suspension at the start of his last year. A lot of eyes are on the coach......

What possible basis is there for this closing statement of yours?

Is it just because YOU do not know what happened you conclude that Few didn't handle it "well"?

Or .... DO you know what actually happened with Kelly? And THAT "secret" knowledge of yours tells you that Few didn't handle it well.

I find your statement puzzling. And troublesome.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 09:22 AM
What possible basis is there for this closing statement of yours?

Is it just because YOU do not know what happened you conclude that Few didn't handle it "well"?

Or .... DO you know what actually happened with Kelly? And THAT "secret" knowledge of yours tells you that Few didn't handle it well.

I find your statement puzzling. And troublesome.

Hold on. What I meant was that the p.r. Aspects of the KO ban were handled poorly, IMO. Not whatever precipitated it or how fair it was handled by Few as I have no knowledge of either aspect. But, as I recall, as the season opener approached it just become apparent that KO would not play, and not play for a couple of games. Again, there was no explanation as I recall, though my memory maybe be dimmed. Care to shed any light?

GonzaGAW
10-15-2016, 09:47 AM
too many comments to respond to all, but my 2 cents is the following.

1. josh does not need GAW or any other fan, telling him what he did was wrong or how it badly reflects upon him and the university
2. josh will not take any life lesson from any fan either

3. THE GOOD NEWS IS..........you can bet he will receive love, support and ADMONISHMENT, from his parents, coach, teammates and friends. further he will realize how lucky, yes lucky he is that this was not worse than it could have been, and how fortunate he is to have this as a life lesson. plus it gives his teammates a real life reminder of how slippery of a slope life can hinge on each decision they make.

Good luck josh.

Zag_Dad
10-15-2016, 10:03 AM
Terribly saddened to see this news about Perkins. I appreciate the perspectives from both sides on this one but also think we should all wait for more details. Much goes into the decision by the prosecutor's to file criminal charges and what charges to file. The Spokesman Review did not have the details of the arrest at the time of writing this story.
Physical Control, as pointed out in an earlier post, does not involve an allegation that Perkins was "operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol (and/or drugs)". However, a conviction for PC carries the same penalties as does a conviction for DUI, including a mandatory jail sentence (alternatives to jail time are available). It would also subject Josh to a license suspension, alcohol/drug treatment, the obligation to attend a "victims impact panel" class and to potentially be under court supervision for five years. The mandatory fines alone are in the neighborhood of $2,000. If Perkins reoffends, his mandatory minimum jail sentence for a subsequent offense is increased as a result of this offense (assuming he's convicted - even if it's reduced to "Negligent Driving First Degree").
Perkins may have a statutory defense available to him of "safely off the roadway" if he can show that he personally moved (or directed the car to be moved) safely off the roadway prior to be contacted by the police. Again, this is a factually driven defense which is an absolute defense to the crime of PC. Time will tell whether he has the facts to make that claim or whether he decides to just negotiate a favorable resolution and take responsibility for his action.
It appear he screwed up. If so, there will be consequences both from the university and the courts. Let's hope the story is "best case scenario" and forthcoming details don't make it worse. I have no reason to believe there are incoming facts that would be worse, just saying we don't really know anything yet.
Having worked in the criminal justice system for two decades, I can tell you that facts on the day of the arrest may not always pan out to be the true and complete story. Sometimes things get worse, sometimes they get better.
No matter what the outcome, I wish the best to Perkins and hope that he learns from this incident and can become a better person for it.
GO ZAGS

MDABE80
10-15-2016, 10:04 AM
These college kids........... they do these stunts and it just takes time and money. He's got to be smarter with his life. I don't think this is much. Few's tough on this type of thing. He's the "in town" parent.
Speaking of which, I'd guess Josh's Dad is on a plane and on the phone getting his boy straightened out. Good Dad. Josh! "what were you thinking?"" <---something he's hear about 3000 times already. VERY immature moe.

You know that you don't have to have a 0.08 to be arrested for DUI. It's all optional as to what the cop thinks. I hope Josh ( not as a play) understands how harsh the system can be. And I hope he listen to Few and his Dad. Good kid/ He'll be fine I'm thinking.

delco55
10-15-2016, 10:30 AM
AMEN! To many of of our youth live in a perpetual state of adolescence.

GoZags
10-15-2016, 10:50 AM
Hold on. What I meant was that the p.r. Aspects of the KO ban were handled poorly, IMO...... Again, there was no explanation as I recall, though my memory maybe be dimmed. Care to shed any light?

No. I don't.

Gonzaga appears to be a place where .... from time to time .... things that intended to be confidential can actually stay confidential. And I sure don't recall a hue and cry over the "PR" aspect of Olynyk missing 3 games.

Zag365
10-15-2016, 10:55 AM
Terribly saddened to see this news about Perkins. I appreciate the perspectives from both sides on this one but also think we should all wait for more details. Much goes into the decision by the prosecutor's to file criminal charges and what charges to file. The Spokesman Review did not have the details of the arrest at the time of writing this story.
Physical Control, as pointed out in an earlier post, does not involve an allegation that Perkins was "operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol (and/or drugs)". However, a conviction for PC carries the same penalties as does a conviction for DUI, including a mandatory jail sentence (alternatives to jail time are available). It would also subject Josh to a license suspension, alcohol/drug treatment, the obligation to attend a "victims impact panel" class and to potentially be under court supervision for five years. The mandatory fines alone are in the neighborhood of $2,000. If Perkins reoffends, his mandatory minimum jail sentence for a subsequent offense is increased as a result of this offense (assuming he's convicted - even if it's reduced to "Negligent Driving First Degree").
Perkins may have a statutory defense available to him of "safely off the roadway" if he can show that he personally moved (or directed the car to be moved) safely off the roadway prior to be contacted by the police. Again, this is a factually driven defense which is an absolute defense to the crime of PC. Time will tell whether he has the facts to make that claim or whether he decides to just negotiate a favorable resolution and take responsibility for his action.
It appear he screwed up. If so, there will be consequences both from the university and the courts. Let's hope the story is "best case scenario" and forthcoming details don't make it worse. I have no reason to believe there are incoming facts that would be worse, just saying we don't really know anything yet.
Having worked in the criminal justice system for two decades, I can tell you that facts on the day of the arrest may not always pan out to be the true and complete story. Sometimes things get worse, sometimes they get better.
No matter what the outcome, I wish the best to Perkins and hope that he learns from this incident and can become a better person for it.
GO ZAGS

Agree with the foregoing. We're all disappointed that this happened. Let's let things play out so we can understand what happened and how student, family, coach, and university assess responsibility and the consequences. I thought the way the incident involving JH was handled by all the parties just mentioned was textbook. I believe all the parties will do the right thing again. So let's watch and wait, then opine.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 11:00 AM
No. I don't.

Gonzaga appears to be a place where .... from time to time .... things that intended to be confidential can actually stay confidential. And I sure don't recall a hue and cry over the "PR" aspect of Olynyk missing 3 games.

No one said anything about a hue.....or even a cry. There were whispers right here on your board, which is likely to happen in the absence of some sort of explanation. As a former practitioner, I know that colleges have any number of weasel words and phrases at their disposal to say something without saying anything.

MickMick
10-15-2016, 11:38 AM
In my opinion, it wouldn't hurt the team if he was indefinitely suspended.

From the book of Few: Gonzaga always comes first.

Perkins is not a lost cause and Mark Few will give Perkins another chance. Although Mark Few is a compassionate, pragmatic man, selfish acts still have a limited shelf life. The level of players interested in playing for Gonzaga would make an unrepentant Perkins very expendable.

GoZags
10-15-2016, 11:39 AM
No one said anything about a hue.....or even a cry. There were whispers right here on your board, which is likely to happen in the absence of some sort of explanation. As a former practitioner, I know that colleges have any number of weasel words and phrases at their disposal to say something without saying anything.

Okay .... I got it now. Thanks for clarifying.

Few (and GU) handled Olynyk's situation poorly NOT because there was an outcry (or any cry at all) from the National Media ... or local media ... but because a couple of message board experts were "whispering" on the board? Got it.

GrizZAG
10-15-2016, 12:03 PM
[QUOTE=DixieZag;1243560]I'm not commenting on either the "we all have made mistakes" side or the "this is reckless and puts lives at risk" - both are true. I also agree that some context is necessary to really understand."

Thank you for a reasonable response Dix.

I can only speak for myself to say that I made mistakes and am betting most of us did and were just lucky at avoiding the consequences. Has zip to do with "testosterone" or bragging in any way. Things have changed since I was in school 45 years ago and do support the MADD cause totally. Just saying none of us are perfect. Doesn't say it is right or marginalizing the gravity of irresponsible behavior as some suggest here.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 12:35 PM
Okay .... I got it now. Thanks for clarifying.

Few (and GU) handled Olynyk's situation poorly NOT because there was an outcry (or any cry at all) from the National Media ... or local media ... but because a couple of message board experts were "whispering" on the board? Got it.

Cmon, GZ. Let it go. Switch to decaf.

DixieZag
10-15-2016, 12:44 PM
Okay .... I got it now. Thanks for clarifying.

Few (and GU) handled Olynyk's situation poorly NOT because there was an outcry (or any cry at all) from the National Media ... or local media ... but because a couple of message board experts were "whispering" on the board? Got it.

Why does a media outcry matter? 3 games is about the most significant suspension that I recall happening at GU outside Heytvelt - maybe I'm having memory difficulty, but that's a big suspension. That says a lot about the character of the program, as in how clean it is.

So, out of the blue, to start the year, the team's best player is suspended for the first 3 games. It is going to be talked about, whether there is a board or not, and much of the talk is going to be ugly b/c that's what people do, rumor, innuendo, tear down people at the top, of course that's not fair but it's also reality.

It is also true that many people dedicate time, money, effort and love to the program and school. They do have an expectation that difficulties will be handled fairly but can't know without knowing something. Against that, you have the privacy concerns of a amateur athlete who is maybe 21 at the time - a very tough needle to thread.

But, if you're dead silent, give no context at all - the obvious result is going to be speculation as to what "a 3 game suspension" encompasses, it doesn't matter who the player is. In that speculation will be concerns that a very bad thing happened but a soon to be all-American got preferential treatment as the problem was swept under the rug. I don't believe Few, Roth, or McCulloh would let a serious problem be swept under the rug, but I'm also sure that someone not as familiar with the program would have some reason to be cynical.

Without context, without some sort of basic broad disclosure, you're left with the ugliness of the speculation, board or not. (Actually, the board is at least policed). Take Square State University, and it's star QB, who out of the blue gets suspended for a big game, and there is nothing else said, nothing. Fans only know that a suspension for that game is a huge deal b/c it almost never happens at SSU. Speculation will run the gamut, "He hit his girlfriend / "He used a racial or homophobic epithet" / "He came in at 3:00 a.m. drunk on a road trip" / "He got caught cheating on a final exam" - - all the possibilities. And, b/c he's a star QB, most people are going to assume the school is covering something bigger. That's just life.

Maybe a fan hears a rumor - he hit his girlfriend - it's not at all true, but the fan thinks it is and loses a ton of respect for the program. So, some schools attempt a cryptic nod toward owing some level of disclosure, "Suspended for a team academic violation" or "Suspended for a violation of team alcohol policy" or something to that effect. Total silence does nothing but give the cynics ammunition when it doesn't necessarily have to be that way or even should be that way. The university can say "We don't owe anyone an explanation" - that's true. But then it has no right to complain when the media says "I don't owe you cover on anything, it looks like something big is being swept under the rug and that's exactly what I'm writing." It doesn't have the right to complain to the fan who wants his $50K donation back bc he thinks they've covering an assault.

It's all a balancing act and I think Jazz's point is that it seemed out of balance, but more importantly, out of character.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 12:49 PM
Thanks, Dix. Very well put. I just didn't have the energy and it didn't seem I was making any progress anyway.

Mantua
10-15-2016, 02:02 PM
Dixie, that's a great post. The bottom line is about keeping these kids safe period.

Section 116
10-15-2016, 02:07 PM
There was a piece on ESPN's College Football Gameday this morning regarding Ohio State QB J.T. Barrett and a DWI arrest in November of 2015. The eventual penalty by Buckeye coach Urban Meyer was a one game suspension, causing Barrett to miss only the Minnesota game. While we may be comparing apples to oranges here, certainly the Buckeye football program and the Zags basketball program are two different entities, it may be the punishment for Perkins will be much less than Heytvelt and Olynyk sustained?

CDC84
10-15-2016, 02:17 PM
Jazz going after Few already for not being tough enough on him-- is so non-jazz like--what is the world coming to (yes sarcasm).

Make no mistake about it....there will be discipline in this matter. The university will have its say, and the coach may add something on to it. But we're in the middle of October, and the Heytvelt arrest was right in the middle of the season. There is time for the university and for coach to figure out what the appropriate punishment should be. The Heytvelt situation was more serious and a way bigger news story. A decision had to be reached immediately. Not just because of the seriousness of the arrest and charges, but also because they were in the middle of league play. This is not a time for rash decisions to be made.

jaydee77
10-15-2016, 02:38 PM
Who is anyone on this board to say what consequences he should face? If he was off campus why would the university be involved at all? He is over 21. This is between Josh, his attorney and the court system. Without knowing all the facts, people on this board are already deciding he should be suspended a number of games. If the University is involved I hope he is treated as if he were any other student. The basketball players live in a fish bowl in Spokane as it is. They deserve some degree of privacy and should not be subject to persecution by a bunch of know it alls who post here. If it were your children charged with a similar offense, would you want people on a message board offering their opinion?. "I hope be becomes a better person" what bull####. As if you have no flaws? Like he was a bad guy before this? He made a mistake. Get off the kids back. Perhaps you could leave your cell number in case Josh needs your counsel.

Bogozags
10-15-2016, 03:23 PM
In 2007, just before the SCU game which we lost, Josh Heytvelt and Theo Davis were caught with shrooms and both were off the team. Davis left GU and returned home and Heytvelt stayed in school and worked his butt off to get back on the team. I hope Josh Perkins' penalty is not so harsh but a precedent might have been set.

Last season, Nick Emery went after a Utah player and intentionally hit him and BYU suspended him for just one game and the WCC was evidently fine with the penalty.

We all know GU get's character kids and Josh Perkins is one of those kids. No doubt Josh feels absolutely sick over this most of all because he let his parents down as well as Coach Few and the Team. I am sure the lesson has already been learned but now come the consequences. I can imagine the talking to he will received from Coach Few and as we know, when parents punish their kids it hurst them more than the kid.

Prayers are being said, fingers are crossed and the sun will rise in the east in the morning...let's hope there are not too many clouds obstructing the sun's light...

ZagsObserver
10-15-2016, 03:32 PM
Who is anyone on this board to say what consequences he should face? If he was off campus why would the university be involved at all? He is over 21. This is between Josh, his attorney and the court system. Without knowing all the facts, people on this board are already deciding he should be suspended a number of games. If the University is involved I hope he is treated as if he were any other student. The basketball players live in a fish bowl in Spokane as it is. They deserve some degree of privacy and should not be subject to persecution by a bunch of know it alls who post here. If it were your children charged with a similar offense, would you want people on a message board offering their opinion?. "I hope be becomes a better person" what bull####. As if you have no flaws? Like he was a bad guy before this? He made a mistake. Get off the kids back. Perhaps you could leave your cell number in case Josh needs your counsel.

Good post

KStyles
10-15-2016, 03:49 PM
Who is anyone on this board to say what consequences he should face? If he was off campus why would the university be involved at all? He is over 21. This is between Josh, his attorney and the court system. Without knowing all the facts, people on this board are already deciding he should be suspended a number of games. If the University is involved I hope he is treated as if he were any other student. The basketball players live in a fish bowl in Spokane as it is. They deserve some degree of privacy and should not be subject to persecution by a bunch of know it alls who post here. If it were your children charged with a similar offense, would you want people on a message board offering their opinion?. "I hope be becomes a better person" what bull####. As if you have no flaws? Like he was a bad guy before this? He made a mistake. Get off the kids back. Perhaps you could leave your cell number in case Josh needs your counsel.

Gonzaga University expects its students to conduct themselves at all times according to the University Mission and Ethos statements.

http://www.gonzaga.edu/student-life/Zags-Off-Campus/student-expectations.asp

Zag_Dad
10-15-2016, 03:57 PM
Who is anyone on this board to say what consequences he should face?. "I hope be becomes a better person" what bull####. As if you have no flaws? Like he was a bad guy before this? He made a mistake. Get off the kids back. Perhaps you could leave your cell number in case Josh needs your counsel.

Such vitriol.. nobody said he was a bad person. By accepting a scholarship to play basketball for any university you get to reap the benefits from that. You get a free college education, you get to travel the world, you get celebrity status, you get the opportunity to showcase your talents for programs that may want to offer you a professional basketball contract. With this comes the downside where your life is lived in the public eye. As a result you will suffer the scrutiny of those who follow you. It may be an unfair tradeoff but it is a reality. Josh, his attorney and the courts can handle this as they wish but it will be far from private whether anyone on this board comments in it or not.

My comment that "I hope he becomes a better person" was not a comment that he was ever a bad person. Even good people make mistakes and can learn and grow from them. That's all I meant. Sorry if you think that is bull####.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-15-2016, 03:57 PM
Who is anyone on this board to say what consequences he should face? If he was off campus why would the university be involved at all? He is over 21. This is between Josh, his attorney and the court system. Without knowing all the facts, people on this board are already deciding he should be suspended a number of games. If the University is involved I hope he is treated as if he were any other student. The basketball players live in a fish bowl in Spokane as it is. They deserve some degree of privacy and should not be subject to persecution by a bunch of know it alls who post here. If it were your children charged with a similar offense, would you want people on a message board offering their opinion?. "I hope be becomes a better person" what bull####. As if you have no flaws? Like he was a bad guy before this? He made a mistake. Get off the kids back. Perhaps you could leave your cell number in case Josh needs your counsel.

Lighten up Francis!

Nobody is "persecuting" Josh here; in fact, on balance the general tone of this thread is along the lines of: bad decision, hope he learns from it, and of course speculation about what the consequences may be. A D-I athlete, starting PG for a big name college basketball program gets arrested....of course its gonna get talked about on a fan forum and part of the discussion will include opinions about what the consequences may be.

MickMick
10-15-2016, 04:09 PM
Who is anyone on this board to say what consequences he should face? If he was off campus why would the university be involved at all? He is over 21. This is between Josh, his attorney and the court system. Without knowing all the facts, people on this board are already deciding he should be suspended a number of games. If the University is involved I hope he is treated as if he were any other student. The basketball players live in a fish bowl in Spokane as it is. They deserve some degree of privacy and should not be subject to persecution by a bunch of know it alls who post here. If it were your children charged with a similar offense, would you want people on a message board offering their opinion?. "I hope be becomes a better person" what bull####. As if you have no flaws? Like he was a bad guy before this? He made a mistake. Get off the kids back. Perhaps you could leave your cell number in case Josh needs your counsel.

Purely from a basketball perspective, I think GU is a better team without Josh Perkins.

I believed that before this incident.

I don't trust his judgement on the court and his judgement off the court only reinforced it.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 04:15 PM
Purely from a basketball perspective, I think GU is a better team without Josh Perkins.

I believed that before this incident.

I don't trust his judgement on the court and his judgement off the court only reinforced it.

Uh-oh.

Bogozags
10-15-2016, 04:15 PM
Purely from a basketball perspective, I think GU is a better team without Josh Perkins.

I believed that before this incident.

I don't trust his judgement on the court and his judgement off the court only reinforced it.

Very curious as to what and why you are thinking along those lines...

I think he is the one of the best true PGs we have had in the last ten years...he has good vision, plays "D" and shoots pretty darn well too.

Your thoughts please...

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-15-2016, 04:39 PM
Very curious as to what and why you are thinking along those lines...

I think he is the one of the best true PGs we have had in the last ten years...he has good vision, plays "D" and shoots pretty darn well too.

Your thoughts please...

+1. I'm a big fan of Perkins' game.

northsidezagfan
10-15-2016, 04:43 PM
:vomit-smiley-007::vomit-smiley-007::vomit-smiley-007:
Purely from a basketball perspective, I think GU is a better team without Josh Perkins.

I believed that before this incident.

I don't trust his judgement on the court and his judgement off the court only reinforced it.

raise the zag
10-15-2016, 04:44 PM
Very curious as to what and why you are thinking along those lines...

I think he is the one of the best true PGs we have had in the last ten years...he has good vision, plays "D" and shoots pretty darn well too.

Your thoughts please...

Mick has been on this train following Josh's first few games last season…& hasn't trusted him since…

Suppose he needed to hit 10 3's in his first outing to be given the respect.

If Perkins can stay focused off the court, he's going to be a great one.

jazzdelmar
10-15-2016, 04:47 PM
Mick has been on this train following Josh's first few games last season…& hasn't trusted him since…

Suppose he needed to hit 10 3's in his first outing to be given the respect.

If Perkins can stay focused off the court, he's going to be a great one.

Not if he hit the runner in the lane vs Syracuse

raise the zag
10-15-2016, 05:06 PM
Not if he hit the runner in the lane vs Syracuse

or pass to WIDE open Sabonis waiting with his hands ready on the lower right key.

bigblahla
10-15-2016, 05:54 PM
I don't think the season can get here fast enough....the natives are getting a little more then restless. ;) Personally, I consider it a rite of passage for a college student and a boy learning responsibility and becoming a man....

Go!! Zags!!!

MDABE80
10-15-2016, 06:29 PM
Purely from a basketball perspective, I think GU is a better team without Josh Perkins.

I believed that before this incident.

I don't trust his judgement on the court and his judgement off the court only reinforced it.

Lololololol.....now the knives come out! Run Mick run!!!!!

Pargo the Destroyer
10-15-2016, 08:28 PM
Good lord. Board is in midseason form.

MickMick
10-15-2016, 11:21 PM
Lololololol.....now the knives come out! Run Mick run!!!!!

I sort of regret being so harsh. I shouldn't be so brutal, but when people start writing that he is our best player or that he is an All American, I can't stomach the nonsense.

Otherwise, I would have let my first post in this thread stand as my only comment.

GoZags
10-16-2016, 01:08 AM
I sort of regret being so harsh. I shouldn't be so brutal, but when people start writing that he is our best player or that he is an All American, I can't stomach the nonsense.

Otherwise, I would have let my first post in this thread stand as my only comment.

What part of jaydee's post .... the one you'd quoted .... implied he is our "best player" or "All American"? And you think that you "can't stomach the nonsense"?

jaydee77's post


Who is anyone on this board to say what consequences he should face? If he was off campus why would the university be involved at all? He is over 21. This is between Josh, his attorney and the court system. Without knowing all the facts, people on this board are already deciding he should be suspended a number of games. If the University is involved I hope he is treated as if he were any other student. The basketball players live in a fish bowl in Spokane as it is. They deserve some degree of privacy and should not be subject to persecution by a bunch of know it alls who post here. If it were your children charged with a similar offense, would you want people on a message board offering their opinion?. "I hope be becomes a better person" what bull####. As if you have no flaws? Like he was a bad guy before this? He made a mistake. Get off the kids back. Perhaps you could leave your cell number in case Josh needs your counsel.

jazzdelmar
10-16-2016, 02:43 AM
I sort of regret being so harsh. I shouldn't be so brutal, but when people start writing that he is our best player or that he is an All American, I can't stomach the nonsense.

Otherwise, I would have let my first post in this thread stand as my only comment.

All due respect, MM, I see nowhere, at least on this thread, any AA or "best player" claim for JP. I see "best PG in ten years," which is enough of a reach, IMO. Perhaps they are posted elsewhere. Most common claim for those attributes are for NWG and/or Karno, which is half right. But you're correct, you're being harsh especially during JP's trying times.

Bogozags
10-16-2016, 05:10 AM
All due respect, MM, I see nowhere, at least on this thread, any AA or "best player" claim for JP. I see "best PG in ten years," which is enough of a reach, IMO. Perhaps they are posted elsewhere. Most common claim for those attributes are for NWG and/or Karno, which is half right. But you're correct, you're being harsh especially during JP's trying times.

Jazz, just to clarify I said he is one of the best TRUE PG's we have had in the last ten years...not just playing the PG but actually being a PG...He is a pass first PG much along the lines of Raivio, again IMO

jazzdelmar
10-16-2016, 05:15 AM
Jazz, just to clarify I said he is one of the best TRUE PG's we have had in the last ten years...not just playing the PG but actually being a PG...He is a pass first PG much along the lines of Raivio, again IMO

Ok. Why don't you put KP in that category?

Bogozags
10-16-2016, 05:51 AM
Ok. Why don't you put KP in that category?

Good Morning JAZZ...up early are we...
IMO he was a scoring first PG as that was why he was recruited...Stockton was the "PG" when they were on the court together...GU needed his scoring more than they needed his passing because of the roll he was playing...he is more of a true PG in Europe and when he played in NBA Summer League...he made that transition quite easily...again, IMO

cjm720
10-16-2016, 08:00 AM
Very unfortunate but a learning experience. I wonder what other players may have been with him...and if so if there could be consequences to others?

zagamatic
10-16-2016, 08:15 AM
Ok....since we're all probably at least a little superstitious......Perhaps we just don't have any more players named Josh hahaha. Lighten up people. He's one of millions of people who will make foolish decisions involving alcohol this month alone.

JPtheBeasta
10-16-2016, 08:17 AM
Jazz, just to clarify I said he is one of the best TRUE PG's we have had in the last ten years...not just playing the PG but actually being a PG...He is a pass first PG much along the lines of Raivio, again IMO

I always thought of Raivio as shooting guard who could dribble really well. It's funny how perspectives can be so different. Josh Perkins shot well from the 3-point line last year, but David Stockton, in my opinion, was a better "pure point guard." Granted, Perkins didn't have to do much last year from a leadership perspective. I am really hoping to see the court vision and passing that I have heard so much about have a coming out party next year.

Virginia Zags Fan
10-16-2016, 08:28 AM
I am sad this happened to Josh. I am going to wait for the facts to come out. In this life we all make mistakes. It is what you do following and where you go following that determines the character of a man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jazzdelmar
10-16-2016, 08:37 AM
I always thought of Raivio as shooting guard who could dribble really well. It's funny how perspectives can be so different. Josh Perkins shot well from the 3-point line last year, but David Stockton, in my opinion, was a better "pure point guard." Granted, Perkins didn't have to do much last year from a leadership perspective. I am really hoping to see the court vision and passing that I have heard so much about have a coming out party next year.

Raivio was a chucker, to use the vernacular. Who posed as a pg.

MontanaCoyote
10-16-2016, 08:46 AM
I am sad this happened to Josh. I am going to wait for the facts to come out. In this life we all make mistakes. It is what you do following and where you go following that determines the character of a man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. I know this example is off context some, but we judge Abe Lincoln on what he did regarding slavery as president, not what he said about it on his way getting there ......which was, by the way, quite a bit different! What Josh does now and on into the future is what counts and how he'll be remembered. I believe he'll "copy Abe" on that one!

GrizZAG
10-16-2016, 09:38 AM
Raivio was a chucker, to use the vernacular. Who posed as a pg.

We like a chucker as long as they are going down. Are you saying he was not a play maker?

jazzdelmar
10-16-2016, 10:25 AM
We like a chucker as long as they are going down. Are you saying he was not a play maker?

No. An amazing handle and FT shooter but no not a classic play maker. A scorer. Played w Morrison so there's that. Might have played differently with lower volume shooter.

sittingon50
10-16-2016, 10:32 AM
Raivio was a chucker, to use the vernacular. Who posed as a pg.

Cmon Jazz, take it easy on one of my guys. #8 all time in assists @ GU.

jazzdelmar
10-16-2016, 10:34 AM
Cmon Jazz, take it easy on one of my guys. #8 all time in assists @ GU.

Terrific Zag, Fitty. Just not my cup of orange pekoe. #8? That's all? Volumes.

seacatfan
10-16-2016, 10:48 AM
How many classic pass first PG has GU actually had? Most of them that I can think of were shooters first and foremost, then playmakers.

ZagDad84
10-16-2016, 02:41 PM
How many classic pass first PG has GU actually had? Most of them that I can think of were shooters first and foremost, then playmakers.

At least the two best in Stockton and Vandersloot.

ZagDad

seacatfan
10-16-2016, 03:16 PM
At least the two best in Stockton and Vandersloot.

ZagDad

Yes, two of the great ones! (although Sloot could definitely score too)

I was thinking more of the Few era and men's team specifically.

jazzdelmar
10-16-2016, 03:19 PM
Yes, two of the great ones! (although Sloot could definitely score too)

I was thinking more of the Few era and men's team specifically.

All things being equal, I guess Meech. Can't believe I typed that

seacatfan
10-16-2016, 03:22 PM
All things being equal, I guess Meech. Can't believe I typed that

Was that by default because he wasn't much of a scorer though?

jazzdelmar
10-16-2016, 03:27 PM
Was that by default because he wasn't much of a scorer though?

Default on both counts.

raise the zag
10-16-2016, 05:23 PM
WCC rival fan bases are going to have a field day with this…Josh needs to grow a thick skin come conference season. Away game crowds will be nasty...

JPtheBeasta
10-16-2016, 07:17 PM
No. An amazing handle and FT shooter but no not a classic play maker. A scorer. Played w Morrison so there's that. Might have played differently with lower volume shooter.

Without trying to malign anyone, it is my understanding that Raivio felt he took a back seat to the other scorers on the team. He also helped carry the team in the Heytveldt lost year, if memory serves.

I didn't realize the Raivio finished as #4 overall for the Zags in assists, so I should give him more props for that. But for me he will always be, to use the vernacular, a chucker (albeit a good one)

ZagsObserver
10-16-2016, 08:08 PM
All things being equal, I guess Meech. Can't believe I typed that

Meech was absolutely not a playmaker. He got benched for walk-on Stockton because the offense stalled when he was at the helm. He was unable to feed the post and his assist totals were low in absolute terms and in relative terms.

willandi
10-16-2016, 08:18 PM
We will see what develops from this, what the charges end up being and what happens.

I am not in favor of drinking and driving, but...if you close a bar at 2 a.m. , even if you met friends and just had 2-3 beers, and believe you should not drive, the realization that if you go to sleep in the car (back seat or otherwise) with the keys in your pocket, you will be as guilty of a DUI as if you were driving, why not drive? I know all the real reasons not to, but that is what that law engenders.

It is the same with an open container. If having an open container will get you in trouble, why NOT throw all your empties out? Go ahead and litter. It is safer!

The 'in physical control' law is a good idea, but actually encourages people to drive after drinking. I. personally, think it is wrong.

We will see what develops from this. I am sure that Josh understands that he made a mistake, and will do whatever to get over it. We won't know until all the evidence is presented.

ZagsObserver
10-16-2016, 08:28 PM
We will see what develops from this, what the charges end up being and what happens.

I am not in favor of drinking and driving, but...if you close a bar at 2 a.m. , even if you met friends and just had 2-3 beers, and believe you should not drive, the realization that if you go to sleep in the car (back seat or otherwise) with the keys in your pocket, you will be as guilty of a DUI as if you were driving, why not drive? I know all the real reasons not to, but that is what that law engenders.

It is the same with an open container. If having an open container will get you in trouble, why NOT throw all your empties out? Go ahead and litter. It is safer!

The 'in physical control' law is a good idea, but actually encourages people to drive after drinking. I. personally, think it is wrong.

We will see what develops from this. I am sure that Josh understands that he made a mistake, and will do whatever to get over it. We won't know until all the evidence is presented.

My guess is a lot of people are unaware of this law, particularly younger individuals.

sittingon50
10-16-2016, 08:40 PM
Without trying to malign anyone, it is my understanding that Raivio felt he took a back seat to the other scorers on the team. He also helped carry the team in the Heytveldt lost year, if memory serves.

I didn't realize the Raivio finished as #4 overall for the Zags in assists, so I should give him more props for that. But for me he will always be, to use the vernacular, a chucker (albeit a good one)

#8, JP.

ZagDad84
10-16-2016, 08:54 PM
I personally was not aware of this law until a month or so ago when my niece was ticketed for the same offense.

In my college days (when the drinking age in Idaho was 19) I closed many bars and numerous times realized I was in no condition to drive and then slept it off, usually reclined in the drivers seat. I always thought it was better to sleep it off then drive impaired. A taxi? Sorry, was a college kid did not have money for a taxi.

Now my understanding of the law is that you have to be in the drivers seat of the car and have the car keys on your person or inserted in the car. If you are in the passenger's seat or the back seat or do not have the car keys inserted in the car or on your person you are not in control of the motor vehicle and thus not guilty of any crime.

If this is the case, the only thing Perkins is guilty of is sitting in the wrong seat of the car and having the car keys on him. Had he just sat in the passenger seat or back seat of the car, he may have been fine. While he may have said he was going to drive, he was arrested before he did. You cannot convict a person for something they said they were going to do but never did.

The ticket my niece received was significantly less than a 1st offense DUI and did not carry the same length of license restrictions as a DUI. Poor choice by Josh. A learning experience. Deal with legal penalties (fine & driving restriction), the embarrassment, the likely suspension (most likely short), and make sure it does not happen again.

Most of my life long learning experiences have had a much higher overall cost.

ZagDad

seacatfan
10-16-2016, 09:37 PM
Still trying to get up to speed about the nature of the charge. I would think leaving the keys in the ignition while you are sleeping is kinda dumb. If you don't leave the keys there, where are they going to go? Why wouldn't they be on your person? I'm a bit obsessive about keeping track of my keys (I blame my dad, he's really obsessive about that). I sure like to know exactly where they are at all times, and in one of my pockets seems like the best place to keep them. I guess you could stash them in the glove compartment or jockey box or something. I just don't understand, if someone is sleeping in their vehicle and clearly not driving it, who cares where they have the keys? And like I said on their person is the most reasonable place to keep them.

Good thing I'm not a lawyer, I don't understand the law.

ZagDad84
10-16-2016, 10:13 PM
What the officer explained to my niece was as follows:

If you are not in the driver's seat of the vehicle, you are not in "control" of the vehicle.

If you do not have keys to the car in the car or on your person, you are once again not in "control" of the vehicle.

Obviously, most of us would naturally have the keys to the car on our person, particularly if it was our car. However, Josh could have had the keys in his pocket and been sitting in the passenger seat or back seat of the car and not been in "control" of the vehicle.

Basically, the police assume that if you are in the driver's seat of the car and have the car keys it is a prelude to driving (not necessarily a bad assumption).

However, my knowledge is only 3rd-party as related by a pissed-off niece who was not entirely sober at the time of the ticket.

ZagDad

Zagger
10-17-2016, 01:41 AM
Some interesting statistics here: http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-washington.html
Over the last 20 years or so there has been a significant decrease in Washington traffic fatalities per year and also a decrease in the % of the fatalities that were alcohol related. The most fatalities per year in the table (with data since 1982) was:
1990, 825 deaths total, 475 alcohol related, 58%
The lowest year for alcohol related deaths was:
2012, 444 deaths total, 160 alcohol related, 36%
That's really a pretty substantial decrease over time. I suppose newer cars are safer but there's also a significant drop in the percentage related to alcohol.
It would be interesting to see stats related to the numbers of DUI ticketing over this same time span and/or $ spent on drinking & driving awareness campaigns. It's a darn good trend with likely a host of contributing factors. Keeping tipsy would-be drivers off the road for one night could be one of them.

zagamatic
10-17-2016, 04:55 AM
Something to keep in mind about the new technology in cars (no idea how old Josh's car is) is that the key doesn't even have to be in the ignition, especially if it has remote start. So I highly doubt that the law will change in regards to if the keys have to be in the ignition.

bigblahla
10-17-2016, 06:40 AM
All things being equal, I guess Meech. Can't believe I typed that

Not in this life...great kid...missed so many open looks in the paint and hesitated to deliver the ball time after time....but he is the best cornerback the Zags have had in years.. ;)

Go !! Zags!!!

SWZag
10-17-2016, 06:50 AM
Disappointed. And one should not assume this is normal behavior for young people to do stupid things, because it's not. This type of behavior gets people killed and I'm glad it didn't get to that.

JPtheBeasta
10-17-2016, 07:00 AM
#8, JP.

Bouldin, Pargo, Pangos, and David Stockton passed him, but Raivio was higher on the list at the time he finished his GU career.

JPtheBeasta
10-17-2016, 07:02 AM
What the officer explained to my niece was as follows:

If you are not in the driver's seat of the vehicle, you are not in "control" of the vehicle.

If you do not have keys to the car in the car or on your person, you are once again not in "control" of the vehicle.

Obviously, most of us would naturally have the keys to the car on our person, particularly if it was our car. However, Josh could have had the keys in his pocket and been sitting in the passenger seat or back seat of the car and not been in "control" of the vehicle.

Basically, the police assume that if you are in the driver's seat of the car and have the car keys it is a prelude to driving (not necessarily a bad assumption).

However, my knowledge is only 3rd-party as related by a pissed-off niece who was not entirely sober at the time of the ticket.

ZagDad


I think "Wisdom of a Pissed-Off Niece" would be a great blog, or book, title.

LongIslandZagFan
10-17-2016, 07:04 AM
Going to put my 2 cents in here and leave it at that.

1) Bone-headed move on his part and I hope he learns from it.
2) Few and the university will deal with this appropriately and likely far more severely than many major programs would.
3) There is no excuse for drinking and driving. However, based on the accounts, we don't know if that is what actually happened. To make leaps into assuming it is the case isn't fair to anyone, most particularly to Josh.
4) This is NOT anywhere on the level of Josh and Theo... not even remotely.
5) This can serve as a lesson to Josh, his teammates, and to us all that this is a serious subject matter and that the combination of alcohol and a motor vehicle is never a good combination regardless of whether he was driving it, planning on driving it, or was just sitting in the car.

Bogozags
10-17-2016, 07:39 AM
Going to put my 2 cents in here and leave it at that.

1) Bone-headed move on his part and I hope he learns from it.
2) Few and the university will deal with this appropriately and likely far more severely than many major programs would.
3) There is no excuse for drinking and driving. However, based on the accounts, we don't know if that is what actually happened. To make leaps into assuming it is the case isn't fair to anyone, most particularly to Josh.
4) This is NOT anywhere on the level of Josh and Theo... not even remotely.
5) This can serve as a lesson to Josh, his teammates, and to us all that this is a serious subject matter and that the combination of alcohol and a motor vehicle is never a good combination regardless of whether he was driving it, planning on driving it, or was just sitting in the car.


+1

sittingon50
10-17-2016, 12:32 PM
Bouldin, Pargo, Pangos, and David Stockton passed him, but Raivio was higher on the list at the time he finished his GU career.

Gotcha' JP. Missed your point. Thanks.

JPtheBeasta
10-17-2016, 12:51 PM
Gotcha' JP. Missed your point. Thanks.

No problem. I double checked just to make sure, but I think it's correct. I could also have been more clear to spare some confusion, so I apologize for that.

maynard g krebs
10-17-2016, 01:38 PM
But for me he will always be, to use the vernacular, a chucker (albeit a good one)

Urban dictionary says:

"Top Definition
Chucker

A really bad basketball player

Also, just a plain old idiot, anyone who just throws anything in the air and hopes it makes a goal."

A chucker, pretty much by definition, is someone who takes a lot of shots and shoots a bad percentage. Raivio was a career 40+ 3 pt shooter and closer to mid 40's on 2's (didn't do the exact math).

In his 4 years at GU, Raivio scored 1453 pts on 1005 fg attempts, or 1.45 points per fg attempt. That is a very good number for a small guard.

I consider chucker a derogatory term, and don't think it's appropriate for Raivio.

jazzdelmar
10-17-2016, 02:13 PM
Urban dictionary says:

"Top Definition
Chucker

A really bad basketball player

Also, just a plain old idiot, anyone who just throws anything in the air and hopes it makes a goal."

A chucker, pretty much by definition, is someone who takes a lot of shots and shoots a bad percentage. Raivio was a career 40+ 3 pt shooter and closer to mid 40's on 2's (didn't do the exact math).

In his 4 years at GU, Raivio scored 1453 pts on 1005 fg attempts, or 1.45 points per fg attempt. That is a very good number for a small guard.

I consider chucker a derogatory term, and don't think it's appropriate for Raivio.

Not my definition at all. Best chucker all time was Maravich. Jimmer Fredette was too.

kitzbuel
10-17-2016, 03:54 PM
Not my definition at all. Best chucker all time was Maravich. Jimmer Fredette was too.
Chucker has a negative connotation for me.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

jake
10-17-2016, 04:03 PM
Cmon Jazz, take it easy on one of my guys. #8 all time in assists @ GU.

Raivio was a great player. Where does he rank in all-time minutes played? I couldn't find that info.

I never viewed him as a play maker either. I see two kinds of assists 1) Simply delivering the ball to the right guy as a part of the offense and 2) creating assists/opportunities. Not sure if that makes sense, but I think Raivio was good at the first one and not as proficient in the second. I would put someone like Blake Stepp as being excellent at the second category (seeing lob/alley-oop opportunities, seeing openings that no one else sees etc.).

Zagceo
10-17-2016, 04:30 PM
Article from 2015 (http://hoopshype.com/2015/08/17/these-are-the-biggest-chuckers-in-the-nba/)

another opinion on what constitutes a "chucker".......doesn't seem that negative IMO


High-volume shot attempts, heavy percentage weight on contested shots + high level of early attempts in the shot clock + low-shooting percentage + ultimate green-light shooting mentality = a coveted spot on the Top 5 “Chuckers” in the NBA list.

Goshzagit
10-17-2016, 06:04 PM
This convo makes me miss Carlino...the epitome of chucker. He single-single-handedly won games for BYU opponents. It was equally painful yet entertaining to watch. Like that one kid you grew up with who never passed, took senseless/random shots, & had an excuse for every miss...

DixieZag
10-17-2016, 06:44 PM
I always, personally, thought of a chucker as requiring the following elements:

1. A need to take a high volume of shots from range.
2. The willingness to take a high volume from range even if it was a bad shot, or others were open.
3. Willingness to take a high volume of shots from range out of the flow of the offense.
4. A willingness to take a high volume of shots from range with a tendency to get very hot and very cold.
5. A cold streak doesn't impact the willingness to take a high volume of shots from range.

Under that definition, "Jimmer" was a chucker, and one that won more games than he lost - because he made so many of those "no no no - yes!" shots. Carlino, the opposite, he certainly got hot and won them some games, but seemingly lost way more.

I don't recall Ravio's play enough and whether he qualifies for the high volume even if cold. I cannot remember much behind his ability to draw fouls that became automatic 2 pts.

Zags11
10-17-2016, 06:47 PM
People make mistakes. I know I was and am not perfect. Hopefully he learns the law if true he wasn't driving and resting. I didn't.

U Zig, I Zag
10-17-2016, 09:42 PM
My goodness. Devolved into a discussion of D-Rav being a 'chucker'? He was fearless. Attacked the rim, hit from deep. GREAT FT shooter.

I hope Josh does OK with the situation and the team, students and community show some compassion. Hope he learns something. Hope he feels Spokane is still a home for him.

LongIslandZagFan
10-18-2016, 06:39 AM
What does chuckers and the other stuff have to do with Perkins being cited????

GoZags
10-18-2016, 07:42 AM
What does chuckers and the other stuff have to do with Perkins being cited????

Nothing. absolutely nothing.

But .... I'd far prefer this type of extraneous thought/ non topical posts on this type of thread vs a congratulations thread when a kid has committed to Gonzaga. My biggest pet peeve is when those threads (which are possibly cherished and saved by the PSA's family) devolves into a former (or current) player bashing session. Drives me nuts.

But ... as long as I'm weighing in here again .... I'll wish Josh Perkins nothing but the best as he makes his way through the ramifications of his situation.

Hoopaholic
10-18-2016, 10:43 AM
I can only imagine what Josh is going through....mistakes are made all the time...we are human...

for me the key is does he step forward, own the mistake, take account for it and learn from it and I have seen NOTHING that would indicate he will not do this.......lesson learned life moves on


I look forward to seeing him put this behind him, getting back focused to school work and basketball as I was hoping and expecting big steps in progress for him this year......

thoughts and prayers for the young man

mgadfly
10-18-2016, 11:27 AM
Raivio was a great player. Where does he rank in all-time minutes played? I couldn't find that info.

I never viewed him as a play maker either. I see two kinds of assists 1) Simply delivering the ball to the right guy as a part of the offense and 2) creating assists/opportunities. Not sure if that makes sense, but I think Raivio was good at the first one and not as proficient in the second. I would put someone like Blake Stepp as being excellent at the second category (seeing lob/alley-oop opportunities, seeing openings that no one else sees etc.).

I'm quoting Jake but this is more general and not really specific to his post:

His sophomore season Raivio showed he was a good point guard, both in efficient scoring and distributing the ball. I think, sometimes we give a point guard more credit for drives into the teeth of the defense that creates passing lanes and scoring opportunities by forcing a team to have guys out of position to stop penetration. Raivio created passing lanes and scoring opportunities by having an incredibly quick release and high percentage shooter from range. He stretched the defense and forced them to know where he was at all times.

And he wasn't a "chucker" at least in the way I've always heard it used. I think Carlino was. Carlino took between 24.2% and 29% of his teams shots while he was on the floor. Raivio took 13.2, 16.9, 18.5 and then 24.3 as a senior. Raivio's most prolific year for taking shots was the equal of Carlino's most reserved year. Also, Carlino had an offensive efficiency rating that ranged from a dismal 95.8 to a mediocre 107.2. Raivio's ranged from 115.2 to an incredible 124.7. Raivio shot nearly 42% from three point range for his career. Carlino ha a great shooting season at Marquette, but prior to that shot 34% from three point.

Raivio had a quick release and was willing to shoot whenever he found himself open, but mostly played within the system and took good shots.

Zag365
10-18-2016, 11:45 AM
before we got distracted and went into a fascinating examination of what is and who be a chucker, we were talking about the title of this thread. Have there been any reports as far as status of matters/next steps. Court process? Dates? Any acknowledgement that Athletic Dep't or the University (or both) is/are doing a review? Is JP practicing?

sittingon50
10-18-2016, 11:59 AM
Nothing. absolutely nothing.

But .... I'd far prefer this type of extraneous thought/ non topical posts on this type of thread vs a congratulations thread when a kid has committed to Gonzaga. My biggest pet peeve is when those threads (which are possibly cherished and saved by the PSA's family) devolves into a former (or current) player bashing session. Drives me nuts.

But ... as long as I'm weighing in here again .... I'll wish Josh Perkins nothing but the best as he makes his way through the ramifications of his situation.

I had never thought of the derailments in light of a congratulatory thread GZ. Probably is something that is cherished by the player/family & friends.

As I am as guilty as anyone here of going off the rails, you have my permission to tell me to "pull my head out of my butt." And though it's been way up there for years, I'll do my darnedest.

Back to Josh. I really think this incident will be a net positive for Josh & the team. They know they have the talent this year to do something special & if some of the new guys didn't realize it before, they now live & work in the fishbowl that is Gonzaga Basketball. Josh seems like a great kid & I'm sure he'll be much the better person coming out the other end.

MDABE80
10-18-2016, 12:42 PM
Josh will be much better now that he has Nigel and Mathews. He really was not an allstar last year but for a frosh, 10 ppg and 4 assists is gooenough. The probem last year was his ball handling which improved toward the end of the season . Also, he seemed kind of disinterested in some games.
I think this "citation" will evaporate. It won't mean anything but a big scare for Josh. Along the way, he'll learn the ins and outs and complications of being near an ignition switch when you've had some beers.

Best wishes to him. I do think we have 3 dandies out front. SIlas is still a question mark. If Silas could remain consistent in his play, he'd be right up there with the other three. Talented kid who seems to get lost in games. Maturation will come. Anyway, this thread has drifted. It's drifted to an "ewwwww". Norvell is wildly talented too. I hate to see a kid with his talent sit for a year. Few's got his work cut out for him to make these talented players fit together. i hope he does. It's still my opinion that we have FF talent. It's just so obvious when you see these kids work together.
Aboiut two weeks till the exhibition. Then we get serious. We've had a pretty decent and quiet board since April or so. I hope we continue when the season starts.

Hoopaholic
10-18-2016, 05:58 PM
before we got distracted and went into a fascinating examination of what is and who be a chucker, we were talking about the title of this thread. Have there been any reports as far as status of matters/next steps. Court process? Dates? Any acknowledgement that Athletic Dep't or the University (or both) is/are doing a review? Is JP practicing?

Educated guess is deferment. Stays out if criminal charges for year and it will be dismissed

Zag 77
10-18-2016, 07:47 PM
A Deferred Prosecution program in WA is a 2 year program and has a lot of costs. It also requires a finding that the applicant has a serious substance problem. Not sure that is the best route for him. Hopefully the blood readings are low enough to get the charge reduced to First Degree Neg Driving.

Zag_Dad
10-18-2016, 07:58 PM
Educated guess is deferment. Stays out if criminal charges for year and it will be dismissed

I think "deferral" is unlikely. Under Washington law a person may petition the court for a deferred finding on certain misdemeanor crimes, including DUI and Physical Control. Under RCW 10.05 you can have the charge dismissed if you suffer from alcohol or drug addiction and you obtain an assessment that states the you would benefit from treatment. The program requires you complete a two year treatment program, refrain from consuming any alcohol and be under court supervision for five years. It's a rare outcome for first time offenders but certainly something to consider for people who are truly alcoholics or addicted to drugs.

I don't pretend to know anything about Josh or whether he's got an alcohol or drug problem but it would seem unlikely.

I think a more likely scenario is the case is plead down from the gross-misdemeanor crime of PC to the simple misdemeanor crime of Negligent Driving First degree. The latter crime does not carry any mandatory jail time.

Time will tell. Without knowing any of the facts, this is all conjecture.

Hoping this is all resolved quickly and only a minor footnote to Josh' spectacular college career.

GO ZAGS

Pargo the Destroyer
10-19-2016, 11:26 AM
New details. And not necessarily good ones.

http://www.krem.com/mb/news/local/spokane-county/new-details-shed-light-on-gu-basketball-player-josh-perkins-arrest/338419787

LongIslandZagFan
10-19-2016, 11:31 AM
New details. And not necessarily good ones.

http://www.krem.com/mb/news/local/spokane-county/new-details-shed-light-on-gu-basketball-player-josh-perkins-arrest/338419787

Thanks for the update.

cjm720
10-19-2016, 11:43 AM
No bueno

I'm guessing this ordeal will strengthen Josh and create some more team chemistry/bonding.

So glad we have NWG!

Mr Vulture
10-19-2016, 11:58 AM
I don't see how the new details really change anything. He made a bad call, he will hopefully learn from it, and will move ahead. I am sure there is some punishment but I can't imagine he's the only GU student to ever get a OUI or DUI. I trust the university and Coach Few to do what is right as they have never shown that they wouldn't do just that in the past.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-19-2016, 02:07 PM
I don't see how the new details really change anything. He made a bad call, he will hopefully learn from it, and will move ahead. I am sure there is some punishment but I can't imagine he's the only GU student to ever get a OUI or DUI. I trust the university and Coach Few to do what is right as they have never shown that they wouldn't do just that in the past.

New details reveal he was found slumped over steering wheel with engine running, said he had just returned from driving friends home, agreed to a field sobriety test and was immediately arrested. No idea if these details are of legal significance but they sure don't help him in the court of public opinion. Dumb move deserving of punishment by Few. Yeah, we all have crazy college day stories but driving drunk is not one of mine nor most anyone I know. Dangerous, stupid, selfish.

Mr Vulture
10-19-2016, 02:15 PM
Maybe I'm the only one that assumed he was under the influence in a running car from the beginning, thus the charge. I really don't see how this changes anything in the slightest to be honest. I'm sure there will be discipline, I'm confident he will learn from it, and will move ahead. A lot of people make a stupid decisions, particularly when they are young. Fortunately no one was hurt. Absent of any past or further issues I would have him sit a game or a few games. Otherwise, I'd focus on teaching and helping him moving forward.


New details reveal he was found slumped over steering wheel with engine running, said he had just returned from driving friends home, agreed to a field sobriety test and was immediately arrested. No idea if these details are of legal significance but they sure don't help him in the court of public opinion. Dumb move deserving of punishment by Few. Yeah, we all have crazy college day stories but driving drunk is not one of mine nor most anyone I know. Dangerous, stupid, selfish.

jazzdelmar
10-19-2016, 02:27 PM
Maybe I'm the only one that assumed he was under the influence in a running car from the beginning, thus the charge. I really don't see how this changes anything in the slightest to be honest. I'm sure there will be discipline, I'm confident he will learn from it, and will move ahead. A lot of people make a stupid decisions, particularly when they are young. Fortunately no one was hurt. Absent of any past or further issues I would have him sit a game or a few games. Otherwise, I'd focus on teaching and helping him moving forward.



'Sit a game?' Are you kidding?

vandalzag
10-19-2016, 02:30 PM
'Sit a game?' Are you kidding?

So punishment would satisfy you (not that I agree with a game)?

jazzdelmar
10-19-2016, 02:33 PM
So punishment would satisfy you (not that I agree with a game)?

What are you saying, besides being contentious as usual?

jazzdelmar
10-19-2016, 02:39 PM
There are three circles of judgment he faces. Most important, the court; then the university as a student per se; and finally as a member of the CBB team. Each has its own standards for punishment but there is no doubt the second and third circles will be informed on their decision by what happens in the court. As for number of games, ten percent of the season, three games seems about right, barring additional new and bad details.

ZAG 4 LIFE
10-19-2016, 02:58 PM
I would guess the first time we'll see Mr. Perkins play this season
will be in Orlando.

ZagsObserver
10-19-2016, 03:21 PM
I would guess the first time we'll see Mr. Perkins play this season
will be in Orlando.

Yep. Either game 1 or game 2. Only the SDSU game will likely hurt the zags

Mr Vulture
10-19-2016, 08:19 PM
'Sit a game?' Are you kidding?

I like how you cut out the rest of my posting to fit your narrative. To complete the sentence I posted "or a few games" and no I'm not kidding. I trust the school and Coach Few to make the right call. You just don't like Perkins to start with as shown in your postings before this.

LongIslandZagFan
10-19-2016, 08:44 PM
I rarely fall into Jazz's camp. But anyone who thinks he sits one or two games... sorry... I don't see it happening. My gut says he doesn't see an ooc game until the tourney. Difference here is that I don't let me bias get in the way of using my head. Almost like the desire to disagree with Jazz takes away any idea of rational thought.

Zagdawg
10-19-2016, 09:13 PM
I agree with you LIZF---most don't agree with what jazz puts out there---- but I am thinking our college and team will make an appropriate decision based on the facts--however many games it is --as long as Josh learns and makes the changes necessary in his life this situation may avert an even worse potential future situation (i.e. one of lifes many learning experiences).

cggonzaga
10-19-2016, 09:42 PM
I rarely fall into Jazz's camp. But anyone who thinks he sits one or two games... sorry... I don't see it happening. My gut says he doesn't see an ooc game until the tourney. Difference here is that I don't let me bias get in the way of using my head. Almost like the desire to disagree with Jazz takes away any idea of rational thought.

Heytvelt got 9 games for a felony. Perkins' arrest is for a misdemeanor. I agree with Jazz, 3 games sounds fair.

ZagaZags
10-19-2016, 09:47 PM
He told police he had stopped drinking a while ago and was coming back from dropping some friends off. Perkins did not specify where he dropped his friends off.

I hope he wasn't dropping off teammates.

sylean
10-19-2016, 11:06 PM
well, he wasn't driving actually, and he was very cooperative....that should count for something....
]

jazzdelmar
10-20-2016, 02:46 AM
I rarely fall into Jazz's camp. But anyone who thinks he sits one or two games... sorry... I don't see it happening. My gut says he doesn't see an ooc game until the tourney. Difference here is that I don't let me bias get in the way of using my head. Almost like the desire to disagree with Jazz takes away any idea of rational thought.

Or the sound of one hand patting yourself on the back......

jazzdelmar
10-20-2016, 02:47 AM
I agree with you LIZF---most don't agree with what jazz puts out there---- but I am thinking our college and team will make an appropriate decision based on the facts--however many games it is --as long as Josh learns and makes the changes necessary in his life this situation may avert an even worse potential future situation (i.e. one of lifes many learning experiences).

Define, or quantify "most?"

vandalzag
10-20-2016, 06:05 AM
There are three circles of judgment he faces. Most important, the court; then the university as a student per se; and finally as a member of the CBB team. Each has its own standards for punishment but there is no doubt the second and third circles will be informed on their decision by what happens in the court. As for number of games, ten percent of the season, three games seems about right, barring additional new and bad details.

I agree to a point. But I think it should be more, something closer to sitting out the first 10 games. I would also hope there is a strong community service component to any punishment. By all reports a good kid who made a big mistake and hopefully something positive can come out this. Just thankful nobody was hurt.

DukeSilver
10-20-2016, 06:30 AM
I agree to a point. But I think it should be more, something closer to sitting out the first 10 games. I would also hope there is a strong community service component to any punishment. By all reports a good kid who made a big mistake and hopefully something positive can come out this. Just thankful nobody was hurt.

This is just me, but 10 games strikes me as overly-harsh ...

SWZag
10-20-2016, 07:13 AM
This is just me, but 10 games strikes me as overly-harsh ...

I'm not sure I do.

Just my two cents.

It's often easy to think "nothing happened, no one got hurt, so it wasn't that bad." It wouldn't take much to have this story end differently. Do we give less "punishment" because he was lucky? Do we give more "punishment" because someone is unlucky and does cause damage/injury?

Just because no one ended up getting hurt, does 10 games sound too much?
Under the same/similar circumstances, what if he happened to injure or kill someone, would 10 games still sound too much?

While under the influence, all it would take is to have someone crossing in a crosswalk or someone riding a bike and this could have been far more serious. While I am very glad nothing happened, I realize something easily bad could have easily happened and giving out less "punishment" because they completed the action with no one getting hurt is not the best answer.

ZagsObserver
10-20-2016, 07:13 AM
My guess is a five game suspension.

I think it's key that we support this talented kid during this time with words of support. I'll go first: we are behind you josh. Keep your head high.

zagfan24
10-20-2016, 07:28 AM
I'm not sure I do.

Just my two cents.

It's often easy to think "nothing happened, no one got hurt, so it wasn't that bad." It wouldn't take much to have this story end differently. Do we give less "punishment" because he was lucky? Do we give more "punishment" because someone is unlucky and does cause damage/injury?

Just because no one ended up getting hurt, does 10 games sound too much?
Under the same/similar circumstances, what if he happened to injure or kill someone, would 10 games still sound too much?

While under the influence, all it would take is to have someone crossing in a crosswalk or someone riding a bike and this could have been far more serious. While I am very glad nothing happened, I realize something easily bad could have easily happened and giving out less "punishment" because they completed the action with no one getting hurt is not the best answer.

I agree with you. I feel very fortunate for Josh that he didn't hurt himself or somebody else, but the outcome matters less than the behavior, IMO. It's a very serious and dangerous action. I believe that Josh is truly a good person and everything I've seen and heard from him suggests that he is an outstanding young man who, from what I've read (and I'll acknowledge there's always limitations to that), made a bad mistake.

As far what happens, I have a lot of faith that Few, Roth, et al. will make a fair decision based on the multitude of factors that need to be considered from a university, program, and legal standpoint.

willandi
10-20-2016, 07:43 AM
I'm not sure I do.

Just my two cents.

It's often easy to think "nothing happened, no one got hurt, so it wasn't that bad." It wouldn't take much to have this story end differently. Do we give less "punishment" because he was lucky? Do we give more "punishment" because someone is unlucky and does cause damage/injury?

Just because no one ended up getting hurt, does 10 games sound too much?
Under the same/similar circumstances, what if he happened to injure or kill someone, would 10 games still sound too much?

While under the influence, all it would take is to have someone crossing in a crosswalk or someone riding a bike and this could have been far more serious. While I am very glad nothing happened, I realize something easily bad could have easily happened and giving out less "punishment" because they completed the action with no one getting hurt is not the best answer.

So you are saying that if he had hit and killed somebody, 10 games is about right?

I am being facetious. I know that you have a zero toerance policy for drinking. But realistically, if the intent is to teach a lesson and not to punish for the sake of punishing, what is the proper punishment?

I think (just my own thoughts) that JP is going through his own personal mortification, embarrassment, believing that he has let down family, team and self. How much piling on should there be?

Personally, I think 3 games minimum and 5 maximum, along with all the community service, self flagellation etc he will be going through. The idea is to reinforce the lesson he is being taught, not to drive the life out of him.

bartruff1
10-20-2016, 08:12 AM
Hey Jazz do you remember when the starting first baseman for the Yankees , Wally Pip, missed a game and Lou Gehrig subbed for him ???

Gehrig started the next 2000 and plus games...... it is not always easy to get your starting job back....

MontanaCoyote
10-20-2016, 08:29 AM
Please bear with me. I have some experience and investment in this issue. As a state legislator, I sponsored 7 different bills on DUI. Six became law. To make a very long story short, all of them contained punishment, educational and rehabilitative
provisions. Too complex to go into detail, but the second bill mandated one day in jail on conviction of a first DUI.

Although I don't drink or do drugs (and never did) alcoholism runs rampant through my families history. Killed my mom.

And my second DUI bill has put both my daughter and my grandson in jail!

Punishment comes in many forms, a total package if you will. Fines, jail time, big jumps in auto insurance rates, a record,
embarrassment, even shame.

From what I've read on this thread, Josh's charge is a misdemeanor. But we shouldn't ever come to say it was "just" a
misdemeanor because it had the potential of possibly becoming much worse.

One game? Three? Ten? I trust coach Few to make the right call, remembering that the punishment Josh will experience as a result of his poor decision making (the total package) will be with him for a long, long time.

DukeSilver
10-20-2016, 08:45 AM
I'm not sure I do.

Just my two cents.

It's often easy to think "nothing happened, no one got hurt, so it wasn't that bad." It wouldn't take much to have this story end differently. Do we give less "punishment" because he was lucky? Do we give more "punishment" because someone is unlucky and does cause damage/injury?

Just because no one ended up getting hurt, does 10 games sound too much?
Under the same/similar circumstances, what if he happened to injure or kill someone, would 10 games still sound too much?

While under the influence, all it would take is to have someone crossing in a crosswalk or someone riding a bike and this could have been far more serious. While I am very glad nothing happened, I realize something easily bad could have easily happened and giving out less "punishment" because they completed the action with no one getting hurt is not the best answer.

While no one is downplaying the seriousness of the decision to drive (or "control his vehicle") while under the influence, it's absurd to punish him in accordance with the worst possible outcome of such a decision ... Should anyone who speeds, or otherwise drives recklessly, be treated similarly?

Punishments can't be based on hypotheticals, but on what actually happened. And what happened is that he was found in a running vehicle while he was intoxicated. Simply not the same thing as having been involved in a fatal wreck, no matter which way you spin it.

jazzdelmar
10-20-2016, 09:45 AM
Hey Jazz do you remember when the starting first baseman for the Yankees , Wally Pip, missed a game and Lou Gehrig subbed for him ???

Gehrig started the next 2000 and plus games...... it is not always easy to get your starting job back....


Are you egging me on, dear friend?

webspinnre
10-20-2016, 09:59 AM
So you are saying that if he had hit and killed somebody, 10 games is about right?

I am being facetious. I know that you have a zero toerance policy for drinking. But realistically, if the intent is to teach a lesson and not to punish for the sake of punishing, what is the proper punishment?

I think (just my own thoughts) that JP is going through his own personal mortification, embarrassment, believing that he has let down family, team and self. How much piling on should there be?

Personally, I think 3 games minimum and 5 maximum, along with all the community service, self flagellation etc he will be going through. The idea is to reinforce the lesson he is being taught, not to drive the life out of him.

I think 3-5 games sounds fairly reasonable to me. I could live with longer if that's what Few decides what's best for the team. I'd be disappointed if it's 2 or less.

Hoopaholic
10-20-2016, 10:26 AM
Please bear with me. I have some experience and investment in this issue. As a state legislator, I sponsored 7 different bills on DUI. Six became law. To make a very long story short, all of them contained punishment, educational and rehabilitative
provisions. Too complex to go into detail, but the second bill mandated one day in jail on conviction of a first DUI.

Although I don't drink or do drugs (and never did) alcoholism runs rampant through my families history. Killed my mom.

And my second DUI bill has put both my daughter and my grandson in jail!

Punishment comes in many forms, a total package if you will. Fines, jail time, big jumps in auto insurance rates, a record,
embarrassment, even shame.

From what I've read on this thread, Josh's charge is a misdemeanor. But we shouldn't ever come to say it was "just" a
misdemeanor because it had the potential of possibly becoming much worse.

One game? Three? Ten? I trust coach Few to make the right call, remembering that the punishment Josh will experience as a result of his poor decision making (the total package) will be with him for a long, long time.

well stated

Hoopaholic
10-20-2016, 10:27 AM
My guess is a five game suspension.

I think it's key that we support this talented kid during this time with words of support. I'll go first: we are behind you josh. Keep your head high.

WITHOUT a doubt, take the lesson and become better for it Josh.....I know and trust you will

TexasZag
10-20-2016, 10:35 AM
While no one is downplaying the seriousness of the decision to drive (or "control his vehicle") while under the influence, it's absurd to punish him in accordance with the worst possible outcome of such a decision ... Should anyone who speeds, or otherwise drives recklessly, be treated similarly?

Punishments can't be based on hypotheticals, but on what actually happened. And what happened is that he was found in a running vehicle while he was intoxicated. Simply not the same thing as having been involved in a fatal wreck, no matter which way you spin it.


...Which is why the actual charge matters. Sleeping it off in a running car is not nearly the same as intoxication manslaughter; nor should it carry the same punishment.

LongIslandZagFan
10-20-2016, 10:50 AM
...Which is why the actual charge matters. Sleeping it off in a running car is not nearly the same as intoxication manslaughter; nor should it carry the same punishment.

By his own admission he HAD driven the car. So... not as if he is completely innocent of DUI here. The only thing is who knows how intoxicated he was when he drove the car.

Anything less than 5 games to me sends the wrong message to everyone. That being said, I wish nothing but the best for Josh and I hope this is a turning point in his life.

bartruff1
10-20-2016, 12:05 PM
Are you egging me on, dear friend?

I though you were a New Yorker and a Yankee fan....but the point is that as Satchel Paige said...." don't look behind you, something may be gaining "

Sports history is full of starters who lost their starting position when they missed a game or two....Tony Romo would be a good example.

One person's misfortune is another person's opportunity. Sabonis took that opportunity and turned it into a lottery pick.

MontanaCoyote
10-20-2016, 03:09 PM
I though you were a New Yorker and a Yankee fan....but the point is that as Satchel Paige said...." don't look behind you, something may be gaining "

Sports history is full of starters who lost their starting position when they missed a game or two....Tony Romo would be a good example.

One person's misfortune is another person's opportunity. Sabonis took that opportunity and turned it into a lottery pick.

Although it doesn't fit with this thread , because bartuff1 folded a great Satchel Paige quote into his comments, I'll
stick another one in. I'm 74, but never come across it until about a year ago. Here it is;

"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you were?"

Like I said, I'm 54.

raise the zag
10-20-2016, 05:18 PM
Is Josh currently and actively practicing with the team? Anyone know?

Most don't suspend players from practice, only games.

Curious...

Zag 77
10-20-2016, 05:53 PM
He said he had just dropped off some friends. If they were team mates, Coach Few is going to be pi$$ed.

Bogozags
10-20-2016, 06:01 PM
He said he had just dropped off some friends. If they were team mates, Coach Few is going to be pi$$ed.

I'm pretty confident in saying that Coach Few is pretty darn disappointed and even more so if Josh did drive home teammates...let's pray teammates were not involved.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-21-2016, 09:04 AM
Anyone else think it is taking a long time for GU to notify fan base of what Josh's consequences are going to be?

Mr Vulture
10-21-2016, 10:04 AM
Maybe they are going to handle things internally and don't feel that they need to share it with the fanbase? I think Josh will do what he has to do and learn from the mistake. The school and Coach Few have shown that they will do what is right in the past so I see no reason to think they won't this time.

sittingon50
10-21-2016, 10:19 AM
Anyone else think it is taking a long time for GU to notify fan base of what Josh's consequences are going to be?

My GUESS is that either the Student Body and/or the City of Spokane need to act first; perhaps both. Few then handles the leftovers.

GoZags
10-21-2016, 10:30 AM
My GUESS is that either the Student Body and/or the City of Spokane need to act first; perhaps both. Few then handles the leftovers.

And what happens with "Student Life" most likely will not be made public.

Bouldin4Prez
10-21-2016, 10:39 AM
Anyone else think it is taking a long time for GU to notify fan base of what Josh's consequences are going to be?

There is no obligation to the fan base to notify us of the consequences. This is a serious matter and I hope they take as much time as needed to get Josh the help he needs and determine the proper punishment for his actions. He made a mistake and if what everyone says about the young man is correct, he will learn from it and become a better man for it.

hooter73
10-21-2016, 10:49 AM
I don't know if anyone knows why olynyk was held out the first few games of his last season. It's the schools discretion to tell anyone anything.

bartruff1
10-21-2016, 11:49 AM
I don't know if anyone knows why olynyk was held out the first few games of his last season. It's the schools discretion to tell anyone anything.

I was frankly amazed at that.

I made no attempt to find out, but it was surprising the media didn't find out .

I don't really care, but I didn't think there were any secrets in a social media world.

They should put the school in charge of the NSA, apparently they can't keep anything secret .

MDABE80
10-21-2016, 12:07 PM
In the end, this is small change. Sit him for 5 games or so, then turn him loose. Everyone will feel better then. The courts, in a DUI situation have these schools requiring mandatory attendance. BUT he's not cited for DUI. Some penalty is warranted but 5 games should do it. No guidlines. I'm thinking he'll NEVER get near a beer for a long long time.
We can win games without Josh. No doubt in my mind. I'm not worried in the slightest. Actually I'm not wringing my hands over this.

75Zag
10-21-2016, 12:24 PM
In my observation, there are typically 2 types of responses to an incident like this. The majority of people react to a charge like this as a personal disaster and horrible embarrassment and work very diligently to change their behavior going forward to avoid future lapses. A few people view charges like this as nothing more than an unavoidable downside risk of living a hard-partying lifestyle. Hopefully Perkins is in the first category and we can all put this behind us and focus on the season ahead.

Go Bulldogs!

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-21-2016, 12:58 PM
There is no obligation to the fan base to notify us of the consequences. This is a serious matter and I hope they take as much time as needed to get Josh the help he needs and determine the proper punishment for his actions. He made a mistake and if what everyone says about the young man is correct, he will learn from it and become a better man for it.

I'm not interested in details just basic info like if he will miss any games and if so how many. Surely they will make that known.

roxdoc
10-21-2016, 01:00 PM
Various responses by appropriate entities should be private - the laundry seems to have been overly washed on these pages. However, it seems to me if/when there is a suspension the fans should be told what to expect vs just suddenly see him reappear in a game at some point.

Coach Crazy
10-21-2016, 01:28 PM
The focus should be on developing the person. If he doesn't understand the gravity of the situation, then appropriate measures should be taken to reinforce that.

I am guessing he understands the reality of the situation. In which case, maintain a certain standard for the program, and help the young man build himself back up, again. No need to over-due things. Figure out what's in his heart, where things need to go, and then move in that direction. If he doesn't need certain punishment, then no need to apply it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GoZags
10-21-2016, 04:31 PM
I'm not interested in details just basic info like if he will miss any games and if so how many. Surely they will make that known.

Don't count on it.

Can't find anyplace where this covers fan bases.
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

DixieZag
10-21-2016, 04:35 PM
He said he had just dropped off some friends. If they were team mates, Coach Few is going to be pi$$ed.

IF IF IF that is true, there ought to be more than one suspension, even if the team has to play with walk-ons.

Just can't have it.

DUI is not a mystery anymore, hasn't been for 30 years. It's just one of those things that needs to be decided about before anyone even goes out- a plan.

In my mind, I am with LIZF, I think anything less than 5 games is minimizing. I say that knowing that there will be other penalties imposed, both through the municipal system and the university.

And, I hope Josh comes through this a better person, but I also know that it won't happen overnight.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-21-2016, 05:28 PM
Don't count on it.

Can't find anyplace where this covers fan bases.
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

FERPA pertains to a student's educational records. Not relevant to issue of when Gonzaga's dedicated fan base will be updated as to whether or not last year's starting PG will be missing games this season because of punitive suspension for off court behavior.

GoZags
10-21-2016, 05:51 PM
FERPA pertains to a student's educational records. Not relevant to issue of when Gonzaga's dedicated fan base will be updated as to whether or not last year's starting PG will be missing games this season because of punitive suspension for off court behavior.

You'd have to tell that to Gonzaga.

I'm not a lawyer and do not know any details that haven't been previously reported ... but clicking on the FERPA link I'd attached above one still doesn't find any language addressing a "dedicated fan base" .... and as for "a student's educational records" only? If that were the case then why is there a section on "Disclosure .... of a Student at a Postsecondary Institution Use or Possession of Alcohol or Controlled Substance"?

Again, I'm not a lawyer or expert but I AM of the belief that like the Kelly Olynyk situation this will also be kept between "Student Life" and the student.

Zag_Dad
10-21-2016, 05:58 PM
IF IF IF that is true, there ought to be more than one suspension, even if the team has to play with walk-ons.

Just can't have it.

DUI is not a mystery anymore, hasn't been for 30 years. It's just one of those things that needs to be decided about before anyone even goes out- a plan.

In my mind, I am with LIZF, I think anything less than 5 games is minimizing. I say that knowing that there will be other penalties imposed, both through the municipal system and the university.

And, I hope Josh comes through this a better person, but I also know that it won't happen overnight.

I'm not so sure other teammates would or should be suspended if it turns out they were the people he dropped off. There is no "accomplice liability" for the crime of DUI. I'd be surprised if anyone other than Perkins suffers a suspension based on the facts we've heard so far. Unlike the Heytvelt/Davis incident, there is nothing here to suggest anyone else was involved in criminal conduct. Davis was suspended because he was in possession of marijuana when he and Heytvelt were contacted by the Cheney police.

DixieZag
10-21-2016, 06:20 PM
I'm not so sure other teammates would or should be suspended if it turns out they were the people he dropped off. There is no "accomplice liability" for the crime of DUI. I'd be surprised if anyone other than Perkins suffers a suspension based on the facts we've heard so far. Unlike the Heytvelt/Davis incident, there is nothing here to suggest anyone else was involved in criminal conduct. Davis was suspended because he was in possession of marijuana when he and Heytvelt were contacted by the Cheney police.

I am aware that there is no criminal liability for people riding along. I am speaking of acting responsibly as members of a team. Not being "criminally liable" for the incident does not mean that I don't think there ought to be consequences with the program.

This is all so speculative that I should not have brought it up. But, I do think that "group" decisions like that are absolutely appropriate to be addressed by the coach. But, again, I am speaking hypothetically since I don't know the facts beyond Josh's citation.

Zag_Dad
10-21-2016, 06:33 PM
I am aware that there is no criminal liability for people riding along. I am speaking of acting responsibly as members of a team. Not being "criminally liable" for the incident does not mean that I don't think there ought to be consequences with the program.

This is all so speculative that I should not have brought it up. But, I do think that "group" decisions like that are absolutely appropriate to be addressed by the coach. But, again, I am speaking hypothetically since I don't know the facts beyond Josh's citation.

Fair enough. I can't say that I join you in the belief that this was a "group" decision but I appreciate your view that teammates should have each other's back on and off the court. If they knew Josh was drunk and accepted a ride from him, thus giving him a reason to be behind the wheel drunk, then that was a poor choice as teammates and citizens. I just think that it is too attenuated to warrant punishment. Too many factors that can't be measured objectively.

I trust a Few will do what is right without consideration as to how it will impact the team. I personally doubt anyone else is punished (based on what we know now) but we shall see.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-22-2016, 01:29 AM
You'd have to tell that to Gonzaga.

I'm not a lawyer and do not know any details that haven't been previously reported ... but clicking on the FERPA link I'd attached above one still doesn't find any language addressing a "dedicated fan base" .... and as for "a student's educational records" only? If that were the case then why is there a section on "Disclosure .... of a Student at a Postsecondary Institution Use or Possession of Alcohol or Controlled Substance"?

Again, I'm not a lawyer or expert but I AM of the belief that like the Kelly Olynyk situation this will also be kept between "Student Life" and the student.
I'll gladly concede your point. Again, I'm not fishing for those details. Did Olynyk (or Heytvelt or Davis) miss any games? If so, wasn't it made public how many games he was going to be suspended for?
That's the only info I'm suggesting should be communicated to fans/public and that it seems to be taking a long time to be decided.

GoZags
10-22-2016, 04:33 AM
I'll gladly concede your point. Again, I'm not fishing for those details. Did Olynyk (or Heytvelt or Davis) miss any games? If so, wasn't it made public how many games he was going to be suspended for?
That's the only info I'm suggesting should be communicated to fans/public and that it seems to be taking a long time to be decided.

Nothing was ever made public on Olynyk's situation. That stayed between "Student Life" and the student. He did spend the first 3 games of his final year in street clothes, however.

Heytvelt and Davis were suspended "indefinitely" and both missed the rest of that season. They were reinstated prior to the start of the following season after completing their community service and diversion classes.
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/gonzaga-reinstates-players-after-drug-case/

willandi
10-22-2016, 06:06 AM
Since we don't know all the details, and who else on the team may, or may not, have been involved. Let's suspend the whole team and forfeit the season! That'll send a message!


NOT!!!

Reborn
10-22-2016, 06:13 AM
I applaud Few for NOT releasing more information. I know I've seen enough. I really don't expect to know anything that is private. I am just a fan. I really like Josh Perkins, and I have full confidence in him and Mark Few and his staff and his team. This is NO big deal to me. I can hardly wait to see josh back on the court, and support him as he deals with what happened. He'll deal with it. I trust him. I don't understand why this thread hasn't been closed a long time ago. It's gotten so redundant.

Go Zags!

DixieZag
10-22-2016, 07:09 AM
I applaud Few for NOT releasing more information. I know I've seen enough. I really don't expect to know anything that is private. I am just a fan. I really like Josh Perkins, and I have full confidence in him and Mark Few and his staff and his team. This is NO big deal to me. I can hardly wait to see josh back on the court, and support him as he deals with what happened. He'll deal with it. I trust him. I don't understand why this thread hasn't been closed a long time ago. It's gotten so redundant.

Go Zags!

I have said that I believe the Athletic Department owes some explanation to fans, supporter, alum, such that the program can be trusted that they take serious situations seriously and will not do anything that smacks of "winning above all." That being said, I agree that details are not necessary and can be hurtful. I think a one sentence synopsis explaining the basis, "violation of alcohol policy" or "cited with ________" and that is all that is needed to allow supporters to have further faith that the priorities are in line. But, that's where it ends.

I have great faith in President McCulloh, Director Roth and Coach Few, and trust that "the right thing" will always come before pure concerns about "winning" - but part of that faith is having had at least an indication as to what issues are addressed and how they're addressed. It is one of a thousand reasons to be proud of my alma mater.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-22-2016, 07:16 AM
I have said that I believe the Athletic Department owes some explanation to fans, supporter, alum, such that the program can be trusted that they take serious situations seriously and will not do anything that smacks of "winning above all." That being said, I agree that details are not necessary and can be hurtful. I think a one sentence synopsis explaining the basis, "violation of alcohol policy" or "cited with ________" and that is all that is needed to allow supporters to have further faith that the priorities are in line. But, that's where it ends.

I have great faith in President McCulloh, Director Roth and Coach Few, and trust that "the right thing" will always come before pure concerns about "winning" - but part of that faith is having had at least an indication as to what issues are addressed and how they're addressed. It is one of a thousand reasons to be proud of my alma mater.

Exactly. Is wanting to know if he will be suspended from games or not and, if so, how many really such an offensive thing to ask and want to know?

I don't think this thread should be closed until there is closure on this incident. :-)

JPtheBeasta
10-22-2016, 07:48 AM
Since we don't know all the details, and who else on the team may, or may not, have been involved. Let's suspend the whole team and forfeit the season! That'll send a message!


NOT!!!

I was thinking the same thing :]

zagbeliever
10-22-2016, 07:58 AM
I don't think we are "owed" anything. When he goes to court and through the school review etc we will be informed of the disciplinary action and there WILL be one. Josh will be dealt with through the system and after that the public will be informed. I am one of the biggest fans out there but I don't think it is fair to make this a public circus and I don't think we are OWED anything. Let the system work as it has before, then inform us. Josh will learn from this whatever the outcome. I think he is a good kid who made a big mistake.

JPtheBeasta
10-22-2016, 08:03 AM
As punishment, I think that instead of suspending him they should make him play 5 games for Rex Walters.


Other ideas:
Make him grade Freshman philosophy papers.
A road trip with Greg Heister and Craig Ehlo to find himself
Short shorts all season.
Attend (in the stands as a spectator)10 BYU home games in the opposing team's gear
Can't play again until he gets a decent hand shake from Randy Bennett
No more tacos.

MDABE80
10-22-2016, 08:45 AM
I don't think we are "owed" anything. When he goes to court and through the school review etc we will be informed of the disciplinary action and there WILL be one. Josh will be dealt with through the system and after that the public will be informed. I am one of the biggest fans out there but I don't think it is fair to make this a public circus and I don't think we are OWED anything. Let the system work as it has before, then inform us. Josh will learn from this whatever the outcome. I think he is a good kid who made a big mistake.

This! No busybodies needed.

DukeSilver
10-22-2016, 09:03 AM
Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the length of Kelly's suspension announced, while the details of his infraction were kept in house?

I don't think anyone here is advocating for the details of GU's student life investigation to be made public, simply the length of the suspension, which is perfectly appropriate information to release and is in no way a FERPA violation.

DixieZag
10-22-2016, 10:02 AM
I don't think we are "owed" anything. When he goes to court and through the school review etc we will be informed of the disciplinary action and there WILL be one. Josh will be dealt with through the system and after that the public will be informed. I am one of the biggest fans out there but I don't think it is fair to make this a public circus and I don't think we are OWED anything. Let the system work as it has before, then inform us. Josh will learn from this whatever the outcome. I think he is a good kid who made a big mistake.

Ok, since I used the word owed, and you "owed" and then OWED it in all caps, perhaps I can respond with Abe's permission (as a busybody). Not all problems "go through the system" so, of course no one would know anything about that - which is the type I am referring to, and I damn well didn't say that so much info needed to be released as to make it a "public circus" - I mentioned a one sentence reference explanation, "violation of academic policy" for instance.

Perhaps "owed" is the wrong word, but if everything is kept entirely secret, it erodes trust. It at least gives the "appearance" that the school has reasons for not wanting information out there and while some of the reasons speculated might be protecting the privacy of a player, many will speculate that the reasons would not be positive. Perhaps the Seattle P.I. (less influenced by our Athletic Department) infers that All-Americans at GU get away with huge issues kept in complete secret. If that happens, the university then either has to swallow it, or release information defensively. Like anything else in life, there is accountability - just as a player is accountable for mistakes, institutions will be accountable for how they address, or not address, problems.

I don't know what I said that made you think that it invited a "public circus" so I at least wanted to make that clear. In fact, if everything is kept entirely secret, the public circus becomes accusations through a member of the media trying to sell copy that Gonzaga is hides issues to keep winning or protect its image.

GoZags
10-22-2016, 11:38 AM
Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the length of Kelly's suspension announced, while the details of his infraction were kept in house?

I don't think anyone here is advocating for the details of GU's student life investigation to be made public, simply the length of the suspension, which is perfectly appropriate information to release and is in no way a FERPA violation.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2012/oct/27/olynyk-will-miss-first-three-games/

Your memory is 100 percent correct.


Gonzaga junior forward Kelly Olynyk will not be allowed to participate in the Bulldogs' first three regular-season games as a result of a violation of the Student Code of Conduct, the school announced Saturday.

Olynyk, who sat out Kraziness in the Kennel last Saturday and won't play in tonight's exhibition game against Northwest Nazarene, will return for the Old Spice Classic in Orlando. He'll miss games against Southern Utah, West Virginia and South Dakota.

The release didn't provide details of Olynyk's violation.

"Gonzaga's student-athletes are students first, and are required to follow all tenets of the Student Code of Conduct," according to GU"s release. "The same rules and procedures are applied to all students in conduct and disciplinary matters.

"Consistent with university policy regarding matters involving student discipline, no further comments regarding the violation or disciplinary action will be forthcoming."

zagbeliever
10-22-2016, 11:42 AM
Ok, since I used the word owed, and you "owed" and then OWED it in all caps, perhaps I can respond with Abe's permission (as a busybody). Not all problems "go through the system" so, of course no one would know anything about that - which is the type I am referring to, and I damn well didn't say that so much info needed to be released as to make it a "public circus" - I mentioned a one sentence reference explanation, "violation of academic policy" for instance.

Perhaps "owed" is the wrong word, but if everything is kept entirely secret, it erodes trust. It at least gives the "appearance" that the school has reasons for not wanting information out there and while some of the reasons speculated might be protecting the privacy of a player, many will speculate that the reasons would not be positive. Perhaps the Seattle P.I. (less influenced by our Athletic Department) infers that All-Americans at GU get away with huge issues kept in complete secret. If that happens, the university then either has to swallow it, or release information defensively. Like anything else in life, there is accountability - just as a player is accountable for mistakes, institutions will be accountable for how they address, or not address, problems.

I don't know what I said that made you think that it invited a "public circus" so I at least wanted to make that clear. In fact, if everything is kept entirely secret, the public circus becomes accusations through a member of the media trying to sell copy that Gonzaga is hides issues to keep winning or protect its image.

I apologize to you for thinking I was referencing you specifically. I should not have used quotes from your post. I really did not intend a personal attack and am sorry you perceived as such. I actually enjoy most of your posts. The "owed" upsets me. I think the program will release information after Josh has been through the court system and school system and the depeartment can at that point do whatever they need to in compliance with those rulings but not before. As far as the circus remark, again not referencing you but those on the board wildly speculating on other kids involvement and (my opinion) vilifying the program and kid. I trust them apply whatever discipline deemed necessary after the other rulings are made and will be in compliance with NCAA. (I hate typing on an iPhone)

jazzdelmar
10-22-2016, 11:42 AM
"....., if everything is kept entirely secret, the public circus becomes accusations through a member of the media trying to sell copy that Gonzaga is hides issues to keep winning or protect its image."


Agree Dix. But, while many here have posted reasonable thoughts about what to do with this situation, the GU admin, likely after conversations with the board and VIP alums, will make the decision it believes is the proper one. Waiting sucks, but it seems logical that all is not yet known and, as I said above, the court and student govt process hasn't even begun.

roxdoc
10-22-2016, 11:53 AM
Just the wording as in the first sentence of the SR piece on Olynyk would offer as much info on this incident as necessary for the fans.

amaronizag
10-22-2016, 01:36 PM
Tesla's fully autonomous driving technology didn't come quite fast enough for Josh. In a couple of years, the designated driver could be the car. That will raise a whole new set of questions, laws, and issues, but safer driving compared to humans??? We shall see.

ZagaZags
10-22-2016, 02:28 PM
Better call Saul.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-22-2016, 03:00 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2012/oct/27/olynyk-will-miss-first-three-games/

Your memory is 100 percent correct.

Thank you GoZags! This is the only info many of us seem to be requesting and expecting. This thread got way too sensitive on the subject.

DixieZag
10-22-2016, 04:42 PM
I apologize to you for thinking I was referencing you specifically. I should not have used quotes from your post. I really did not intend a personal attack and am sorry you perceived as such. I actually enjoy most of your posts. The "owed" upsets me. I think the program will release information after Josh has been through the court system and school system and the depeartment can at that point do whatever they need to in compliance with those rulings but not before. As far as the circus remark, again not referencing you but those on the board wildly speculating on other kids involvement and (my opinion) vilifying the program and kid. I trust them apply whatever discipline deemed necessary after the other rulings are made and will be in compliance with NCAA. (I hate typing on an iPhone)

Well, what I hope is understood is that I think the Univ owes it to itself, as much as anything. I have full trust that GU does things the right way. But, I follow the program closely and know many involved. When a blanket of silence swoops down, it gives the detractors ammo. I also believe the kids deserve some privacy. OTOH, when they get $60K in scholie benefits a year, appearances on TV, some of the best coaching available, and a private jet to get around the country, they simply have to know that they won't get the same sort of treatment a regular student will.

So, again, tough needle to thread. But, I want my university to show it is above reproach and that involves some level of disclosure. I am not speaking of Josh, since I think we have that here. I was referring back more to the situation that came about with KO, and how IMO, it could have been handled better.

Cheers. Go Zags.

MDABE80
10-22-2016, 06:02 PM
Nobody's business . It's between the courts, the school and the team. You are not paying any of the $60 and thus you and me or anyone have no standing.'im surprised this thread has gone on this long. Isn't it time to retire it? Fandom doesn't equate to anything but being a fan. GU handles it.

Ekrub
10-22-2016, 06:48 PM
Tesla's fully autonomous driving technology didn't come quite fast enough for Josh. In a couple of years, the designated driver could be the car. That will raise a whole new set of questions, laws, and issues, but safer driving compared to humans??? We shall see.

Check out this video musk put out a couple of days ago. Amazing times.

https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-tesla-cars

Reborn
10-22-2016, 07:18 PM
A release of information will come, and it will come at the discretion of the university and not fans. Gonzaga and the Gonzaga Athletic Department has kept great relationships with it's fans and community. Personally, I don't think they are ready to release anything yet. They will in time. I see nothing negative in this at all, and I actually am fine with waiting. I have lots of things to do to keep me busy these days.

In GU We Trust, h ha haa haaa

Go Zags!!!

amaronizag
10-22-2016, 07:25 PM
Oh, good video Ekrub!! Thanks, I previously only saw a short clip from that video. I'm very interested and shopping.