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View Full Version : Zags need Perkins to be next man up...



Section 116
08-26-2016, 03:11 PM
Nothing really new or exciting here but it is something to fill the slow days of summer....http://www.todaysu.com/wcc/gonzaga-needs-josh-perkins-to-be-the-next-man-up/

MickMick
08-26-2016, 03:29 PM
From the link:


Perkins must substantially improve his game

jazzdelmar
08-26-2016, 04:06 PM
Wasn't he the next man up last year? He has a way to go, imo. A candid assessment of how he's played and how he needs to play, lest get replaced by one of the new faces.

GoZags
08-26-2016, 04:09 PM
From the link:Perkins must substantially improve his game

Amazing. You've made 2 posts this summer. Both about last year's Freshman point guard. What a concept you've pointed out !!! A freshman needs to improve. Thanks for coming out of retirement for a second time to point this out.

GoZags
08-26-2016, 04:11 PM
Wasn't he the next man up last year? He has a way to go, imo.

Agree Jazz ... he's got a lot to work on ... and it's my understanding that he is putting in the work (and will have a little help in the backcourt).

jazzdelmar
08-26-2016, 04:13 PM
Agree Jazz ... he's got a lot to work on ... and it's my understanding that he is putting in the work (and will have a little help in the backcourt).

Indeed. And to quote the great great Henny Youngman: You wanna help, don't help.

cggonzaga
08-26-2016, 05:31 PM
Wasn't he the next man up last year? He has a way to go, imo. A candid assessment of how he's played and how he needs to play, lest get replaced by one of the new faces.

I just can't agree with your statement jazz because my belief is you don't think he played well last year. I do believe Josh played well last year but can improve as can any player. As previously posted earlier this summer, at least statistically speaking, Josh was on par or better than previous high profile GU points.

Martin Centre Mad Man
08-26-2016, 05:33 PM
I disagree that Perkins needs to be the star of next year's team. He will be the lone underclassman starting for a team that features two seniors and two redshirt juniors. Nigel Williams-Goss started for two years as a point guard in the PAC-12 and earned all-conference honors. Karnowski is a fifth-year player who is on pace to graduate as the winningest player in this program's history. Jordan Mathews is a volume scorer with a ton of experience. Those players should be the leaders of this team. The upperclassmen should be the natural leaders of this team.

For now, Perkins just needs to protect the ball, play defense, and score within the natural flow of the offense. He can emerge as the team's alpha dog in another year or two.

gonzagafan62
08-26-2016, 06:24 PM
Perkins played well at the end of last year. He's going to be the starter all year long. Him NWG and Matthews are going to be one of the elite back courts in America ... Perkins is no doubt ready now. He's going to suprise people. Maybe Jazz

Zagdawg
08-26-2016, 06:37 PM
Perkins will be fine working along side NWG--they are great facilitators plus having the pair on the court eases pressure for both of them.

Jazz is looking like he has identified his "target" for the year.

DixieZag
08-26-2016, 06:51 PM
I just .....never mind. The theme that got some traction last year on the board got to be a theme that continued even when it didn't in his play.

I totally see what people are saying. He wasn't the poised professor at PG from game one that we convinced ourselves that he would be. I unfairly dished out an unfair dis, but it really did look like he continued to improve through the year. But, never lived down the theme thing with some. To me, the lack of professor thing disappointment was well made up for by surprise shooting.

The guy shot very close to what Pangos/Bell shot Frosh year, I'm not sure people had that sink in b/c he wasn't supposed to be a shooter. Then was. I'm one on the "he'll be a steady presence, shooter, that we need more than voodoo pg distributor.

maynard g krebs
08-26-2016, 10:11 PM
That article bordered on inane ( based on the premise that Perkins needs to increase his production this year; does the author have no clue as to who else is added to the roster? Tremors 3? Please.) , as do some of the opinions about Perkins on this board. Does anyone remember the raves about him as a true fr before the injury, playing beside Pangos and/or Bell? I recall people saying his injury was what prevented a final 4 that year.

So last year he struggles the first 3 or 4 weeks, after 2 years of game rust and an injury that prevented him from practicing at full strength for what, half a year? And he's playing with another relative newcomer who missed most of last season in McClellan, and a guy thrust into a new role in Dranginis; no other guards who are a real threat to stretch the floor; the PF has to do that.

The last 27 games, he averaged about 1.7 turnovers a game, and 4.2 assists. Seems like people only remember his struggles the first 7-8 games, which he corrected in dramatic fashion. Kevin Pangos' CAREER numbers were 3.8 assists and 1.6 turnovers.

Kind of reminding me of the McClellan bashing early last year. Plenty of crow to go around on that one. I expect more of the same, just with expected incremental fr-soph improvement.

Worthington
08-27-2016, 07:32 AM
Perkins struggles last year were largely due to him trying to get up to speed at the college level. Just didn't let the game come to him naturally early on and usually ended up playing way too passively. He was infinitely better down the stretch though, especially in the WCC tournament. The last stretch of the season made me believe he was going to take a big jump in his sophomore year.

bartruff1
08-27-2016, 08:15 AM
Minutes will be hard to come by this year....I suspect the seniors/transfers will be the ones to man up....

TheGonzagaFactor
08-29-2016, 10:19 AM
Given how he played down the stretch last year, I think it's a bit over the top to say he must substantially improve his game. So many are stuck on his struggles in the first half or so of the season. For the most part he has the game, he just needs to incorporate it into this group early in the season...

Down the stretch he was awesome, better than Pangos at that stage of his career IMO. He kept us in the game vs Syracuse with tremendous patience, sort of turning into the magical wizard professor that many foolishly believed he'd be from day one. Unfortunately, he had a couple rough moments in the final minute or two of that game, which is what people tend to remember.

Many of his early struggles weren't just due to being a freshman PG at a reputable program, they were due to the other guards on the team being absolutely terrible for the first two-thirds of the season. Don't forget that the play of EMac, Dranginis and Melson was flat out GARBAGE for much of the season on offense, and still pretty bad on defense. None of those three could make a 3 to save their lives, it was beyond pitiful. Josh was the only one who did ANYTHING before the midpoint of the season. Hard to get assists when your shooters can't shoot, right?

Led by EMac (imo) the guards got it together and then some. If they had played like that (or even average) earlier in the season, complaints of Perkins' play would have been much quieter.

When the guards started to play like NCAA guards, Perkins was pretty good. He was making shots when the other guards were still air-balling, which was inexcusable as two of them were 5 year NCAA players that had experience.

I'm looking forward to seeing how he works with this new set of guards.

Reborn
08-29-2016, 10:40 AM
Perkins played well at the end of last year. He's going to be the starter all year long. Him NWG and Matthews are going to be one of the elite back courts in America ... Perkins is no doubt ready now. He's going to suprise people. Maybe Jazz

I agree. I watched the last five games of the year not too long ago. Perkins was playing really well. The reason that many pundints didn't think Gonzaga would do well in the NCAA tournament was because they believed we did not have the guards that a team needs in the NCAA Tournament. I remember thinking at the time that they were going to be in for a surprise because McClellan, Perkins, Dranginis and Melson had all been playing very well. And they continued to do so in the NCAA Tournament. Especially on D. People don't think about defense, and analysts felt that Seton Hall and Utah both had the guards that would beat us. We have two of those four guards back, and will be a lot more experienced this year. And both play solid D. And I mean solid.

NotoriousZ
08-29-2016, 11:23 AM
That article bordered on inane ( based on the premise that Perkins needs to increase his production this year; does the author have no clue as to who else is added to the roster? Tremors 3? Please.) , as do some of the opinions about Perkins on this board. Does anyone remember the raves about him as a true fr before the injury, playing beside Pangos and/or Bell? I recall people saying his injury was what prevented a final 4 that year.

So last year he struggles the first 3 or 4 weeks, after 2 years of game rust and an injury that prevented him from practicing at full strength for what, half a year? And he's playing with another relative newcomer who missed most of last season in McClellan, and a guy thrust into a new role in Dranginis; no other guards who are a real threat to stretch the floor; the PF has to do that.

The last 27 games, he averaged about 1.7 turnovers a game, and 4.2 assists. Seems like people only remember his struggles the first 7-8 games, which he corrected in dramatic fashion. Kevin Pangos' CAREER numbers were 3.8 assists and 1.6 turnovers.

Kind of reminding me of the McClellan bashing early last year. Plenty of crow to go around on that one. I expect more of the same, just with expected incremental fr-soph improvement.

As usual, Maynard, spot on.

CDC84
08-29-2016, 11:58 AM
I expect to see great improvement from Perkins. He was under so much duress last season. He will greatly benefit by having NWG by his side. What he needs to work on more than anything else is his handle. His ballhandling skills are nowhere near what they need to be in order for him to be a great high major point guard. His dribble is just too high.

zag buddy
08-29-2016, 12:18 PM
agree

mattydog73
08-29-2016, 12:40 PM
Amazing that people think Josh needs to "step it up" this year. Compare his stats from last year (his first full year) to Kevin Pangos first year or second year if you like and you will find he performed as good or better in a good many ways. Not to mention, he is a far better defender than Kevin ever was.

Josh http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/josh-perkins-1.html

Kevin http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kevin-pangos-1.html

Also, if Mark Few does not call that timeout, Josh hits an absolute Dagger at the end of the E8 game.

IMO, Josh is exactly where he needs to be. Had a very good year and continues to trend up.

MDABE80
08-29-2016, 09:30 PM
It's not the scoring or the assists/turnover ration. I said this last year to much criticism. Josh just didn't run the teamm like Kevin did. Possibl e due to inexperience. Hope he improves this year. It's team and game management that really make a PG superior. We came on last year in the past 10 games in part because Josh improved during the year but I thought EMac was the key. He was everywhere and played defense like a demon. Our boy Domas was huge too. Seemed like the defense stiffened quite a bit across the board too.

All those opinions and all the favs. It's about 2 months and we'll know more. The best part is the evolution of this team as the season goes on. The champs usually have 5-6 dings on their records. We'll have some. Let's hope we learn. This team is going to offer big possibilites. SHould be a very fun year.

NumberCruncher
09-04-2016, 04:14 PM
Josh Perkins stat ranks for Zag Freshmen in the 3-Pt era:

Minutes - 1st
Points - 4th (behind Harris, Pangos and Sabonis)
Assists - 1st (by a lot)
Assist/Turnover Ratio - Tied for 1st
Steals - 1st


IMO, the article was mostly nonsense.

GonzagasaurusFlex
09-04-2016, 04:53 PM
Josh Perkins stat ranks for Zag Freshmen in the 3-Pt era:

Minutes - 1st
Points - 4th (behind Harris, Pangos and Sabonis)
Assists - 1st (by a lot)
Assist/Turnover Ratio - Tied for 1st
Steals - 1st


IMO, the article was mostly nonsense.

Thanks for giving us the facts to block out the noise. Josh Perkins is everything Zags hoped for and than some. Love his game, love his toughness and I'm all in with he and NWG guiding this team where no Zags have gone before. Karnowski is gonna be the leader and the glue, JP and NWG are gonna stir the drink, JWIII and Melson and surprisingly ZCollins are gonna do the blue collar dirty work on the defensive end to lift this team beyond just an offensive juggernaut, Matthews' consistency shooting from deep will give this team an offensive compass guiding the flow. Also think Norvell and Rui will be game changers at critical moments this season. Can't wait...Nashville, here I come cause this team is a must see!!

gonzagabasketball
09-04-2016, 05:16 PM
I think what Perkins lacked most was polish, the skills are certainly there. He made mental errors, and at times they occurred during crucial junctures. He is s confident player, and sometimes this interfered with his focus.

Sabonis struggled with the mental aspects of the game at times, typically with his aggression and frustration. Once he reigned it in however, he was a consistent and dominate force. I think Perkins is likely to make improvements in a similar fashion and once he gets out of his own way, shoring up the few weaknesses he had, I think you may see the floor general many envisioned.

NumberCruncher
09-04-2016, 05:40 PM
I think what Perkins lacked most was polish, the skills are certainly there. He made mental errors, and at times they occurred during crucial junctures. He is s confident player, and sometimes this interfered with his focus.

Sabonis struggled with the mental aspects of the game at times, typically with his aggression and frustration. Once he reigned it in however, he was a consistent and dominate force. I think Perkins is likely to make improvements in a similar fashion and once he gets out of his own way, shoring up the few weaknesses he had, I think you may see the floor general many envisioned.

I agree.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is his problem, at times, with fouls. He likes to slap at the ball and didn't get away with it much, especially early in the season.

I'm betting he'll figure that out.

raise the zag
09-04-2016, 06:25 PM
This is potentially the least knowledgable and naive Zag-related article I've readůmaybe ever.

Clueless.

I can't, nor won't comment any furtherůsimply doesn't deserve it.

maynard g krebs
09-04-2016, 08:42 PM
It's not the scoring or the assists/turnover ration. I said this last year to much criticism. Josh just didn't run the teamm like Kevin did. Possibl e due to inexperience. Hope he improves this year.

That's a subjective opinion, and nothing more, unless you can provide specifics to back it up. Many, like myself, disagree with this subjective assessment. You said what it isn't, but "just didn't run the team like Kevin" is meaningless unless you can give cases in point to back it up.

When subjective opinions differ, the data provided by numbercruncher wins the day.

jazzdelmar
09-05-2016, 03:46 AM
That's a subjective opinion, and nothing more, unless you can provide specifics to back it up. Many, like myself, disagree with this subjective assessment. You said what it isn't, but "just didn't run the team like Kevin" is meaningless unless you can give cases in point to back it up.

When subjective opinions differ, the data provided by numbercruncher wins the day.

Subjective rules the day hereabouts, Maynard. Even for a man of objective science like the good Doc.

maynard g krebs
09-05-2016, 11:24 AM
Subjective rules the day hereabouts, Maynard. Even for a man of objective science like the good Doc.

Just a matter of style and preferences imo. Nothing wrong with playing no-frills like John Stockton, but Josh's inclination has a bit of Magic/Maravich/Cousy/Ernie D in his game. Nothing wrong with that either. More than one way to play the game.

jazzdelmar
09-05-2016, 01:10 PM
Just a matter of style and preferences imo. Nothing wrong with playing no-frills like John Stockton, but Josh's inclination has a bit of Magic/Maravich/Cousy/Ernie D in his game. Nothing wrong with that either. More than one way to play the game.


Ernie No-D? Your mouth to god's ears w respect to Josh.

MDABE80
09-05-2016, 01:12 PM
I expect to see great improvement from Perkins. He was under so much duress last season. He will greatly benefit by having NWG by his side. What he needs to work on more than anything else is his handle. His ballhandling skills are nowhere near what they need to be in order for him to be a great high major point guard. His dribble is just too high.

Nobody's argued about his statistics either.. IF he's going to be a superior PG, he'll have become more in the mold of a PG. For me, it's how a PG plays the game. Surely there are markers like PPG, To's an so on. As I said last tyear, those data point don't always describe how a team is managed. I didn't think he was a very good manager. Maynard is correct when he mantions much is subjective. Josh improved last year in the last 10 games or so. It probably was due to finally getting some experience.

Flashy player. Emac also improved the 2nd half od the season ( tremendously). I think he was the main factor in getting us through to the S16 and surely through the WCC tournament with wins. Doesn't matter now though. CDC's correct. Josh just needs to get much better with his tools. I hope he does and I think he will. Large part of his improvement will be because he has some strong guards surrounding him. And, of course, more experience.
Last year, we had 6 guys who took ungodly amount of minutes. That'll be different this year. I still think this will be a team effort, I also think this team has E8 written on it.or better. THe schedule isn't real tough. A few bounces our way, we could go the distance.
In about 3.5 months, we'll bet a better read on Josh and the others. I'm will to wait and see. This team withall the new faces much become a team and learn how to play together. CDC's input, as usual , is invaluable.