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flytiezag
07-24-2016, 01:10 PM
Zags and St. Marys http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/7/23/12261986/gonzaga-st-marys-best-college-basketball-rivalry-out-west

GoZags
07-24-2016, 01:56 PM
Zags and St. Marys http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/7/23/12261986/gonzaga-st-marys-best-college-basketball-rivalry-out-west

We have to go all the way back to 2011 - 2012 to find the last time St. Mary's won the WCC tourney title (a 4 point overtime win over Gonzaga in the WCC title game back when Pangos and Bell were true freshmen). Don't get me wrong. That was a good win, and SMC deserved to be Champions that year ... a half a decade ago.

Since then, our "rival" has a .182 winning percentage against Gonzaga (2 wins out of 11 games). "All" of their wins (total =2) since the '11/'12 season came during the regular season last year.

If "this" is truly the "Best rivalry out West" ... then it's my belief that basketball in the West is in serious trouble.

gonzagafan62
07-24-2016, 03:16 PM
I know SMC has actually won the WCC and tourney titles before but BYU gives us way more trouble than SMC. This is a joke and a travesty. There's better rivalries than Zags and SMC out west. Utah and BYU is one of them. Those two are bigger rivals than what we have ...

But our biggest rivalry in WCC is Gonzaga and BYU.

SMC is like a little step bro lol

DixieZag
07-24-2016, 04:40 PM
We have to go all the way back to 2011 - 2012 to find the last time St. Mary's won the WCC tourney title (a 4 point overtime win over Gonzaga in the WCC title game back when Pangos and Bell were true freshmen). Don't get me wrong. That was a good win, and SMC deserved to be Champions that year ... a half a decade ago.

Since then, our "rival" has a .182 winning percentage against Gonzaga (2 wins out of 11 games). "All" of their wins (total =2) since the '11/'12 season came during the regular season last year.

If "this" is truly the "Best rivalry out West" ... then it's my belief that basketball in the West is in serious trouble.

Maybe it's a built on a bit of a different dynamic.

What if the tension - the bedrock of any rivalry - isn't based on back and forth victories as such, but more b/c SMC seems to design seasons around beating GU as their gateway to the tourney, so the game couldn't be bigger in their eyes, and meanwhile, we often go from the end of December to mid-March without many (or any) really "good games."

So maybe it's unique in that they gun for us (with an 'ok' shot at winning) and we (including the KC) get up for it b/c ...well, there isn't a lot else to get up for in those months.

But, you're right. It's weird.

Reborn
07-24-2016, 05:39 PM
I think the UW vs Oregon is a very good rivalry,especially in football. Gonzaga vs UW is a great one in basketball. And I think GU vs Arizona is also a good one.

GoZags
07-24-2016, 06:23 PM
So maybe it's unique in that they gun for us (with an 'ok' shot at winning) and we (including the KC) get up for it b/c ...well, there isn't a lot else to get up for in those months.

But, you're right. It's weird.

Weird in that you're right ... that HAVE been (and are) GU's "rival" while at the same time, they certainly aren't GU's "peer".

Zag_Dad
07-25-2016, 07:20 AM
I agree that Gonzaga/SMC is a "rivalry" and perhaps one of the better ones on the west coast. NOT because the two teams trade the title on an equal basis but because of the dynamics involved. SMC wants desparately to take the crown from GU and is the ONLY team in the conference who comes close ... including BYU. The sample size may not quite be big enough to dismiss BYU. BYU's record against GU since joining the WCC in 2011 is 5-11 which is pretty respectable, however, they have only made it to the WCC championship game twice in that time frame (losing both times to GU).
Since Randy Bennet took over at SMC, the Gaels have reached the WCC championship game 7 times and have won it twice. That is the same amount of tournament championships as USD in that same time frame. That's right... over the past 15 years, SMC has the same amount of WCC tournament championships as San Diego! TWO!
Its the fact that SMC has been the team to make it to the championship game 7 times that gives them the hubris to call themselves our rivals. And it is because of this that GU wants to beat them down. And it is because of all of this that our fan bases gets so worked up and excited for the matchup.
Lets not fool ourselves, SMC is a good program and a healthy rivalry for the Zags. If GU was not in this conference, SMC would be the King of the conference.... but until then they need to stay accustomed to looking up at Gonzaga.

GO ZAGS!

stevet75
07-25-2016, 11:18 AM
I think the UW vs Oregon is a very good rivalry,especially in football. Gonzaga vs UW is a great one in basketball. And I think GU vs Arizona is also a good one.

Has the UW beaten Oregon in the last 10 years?

jazzdelmar
07-25-2016, 11:25 AM
It's Zags-Zona, be real. Two titans. St Mary's is an annual flea to be swatted by comparison. Zags and UCLA has potential.

seacatfan
07-25-2016, 11:34 AM
Arizona-UCLA maybe? Both have had a few stumbles in recent years, but if you look back over a 25 year period or something, no question about it.

gonzagafan62
07-25-2016, 11:52 AM
It's Zags-Zona, be real. Two titans. St Mary's is an annual flea to be swatted by comparison. Zags and UCLA has potential.

Zags have only beat Zona once? Not really a rivalry. Been some damn close games though :) hopefully we starts getting the best of them

cbbfanatic
07-25-2016, 11:53 AM
It's Zags-Zona, be real. Two titans. St Mary's is an annual flea to be swatted by comparison. Zags and UCLA has potential.

i wonder where zona or ucla would put gonzaga on their list of rivalries. I honestly do, not being snarky. my opinion is if the rivalry isnt overwhelmingly mutual, it cannot really qualify for top rivalry status, almost regardless of the qualifiers you put on it (ie best rivalries in the west)

someone up top nailed it for me... if smc and GU is the top rivalry in the west, that says more about the west than it does GU/SMC rivalry

TheGonzagaFactor
07-25-2016, 11:53 AM
It's Zags-Zona, be real. Two titans. St Mary's is an annual flea to be swatted by comparison. Zags and UCLA has potential.

Zags-Zona has amazing potential, but they own us for the time being. Isn't it 8-1 Arizona at this point? Some awesome games, but that record is bad. Pure ownership.

This really just makes me wonder: what happened to the PAC 12, and the MWC, for that matter? There are no rivalries in those leagues worthy of mentioning? None of the in-state or cross city matchups are intriguing nowadays. Rivalries aren't what they used to be (I think they are 100% dead in NFL, NBA, and close to 100% in NHL and MLB), but there isn't ANYTHING on the West Coast worth noting? If GU-SMC is the biggest rivalry outside of UK/Lou and UNC/Duke (I believe the article is about who #3 is), rivalries are dead in college basketball.

Several rivalries better than GU/SMC:

Utah-BYU
Iowa-Iowa State
Illinois-Mizzou
Kansas-Oklahoma
GU-UW (9 out of 10, but still)

Are big football schools incapable of being part of big basketball rivalries? Why do I never hear of OSU/Michigan or Alabama/Auburn or LSU/Florida on the hardwood? OSU and Michigan have had some pretty good teams in the last 10 years, why do I never hear of it as a basketball rivalry?

Bouldin4Prez
07-25-2016, 12:32 PM
Zags-Zona has amazing potential, but they own us for the time being. Isn't it 8-1 Arizona at this point? Some awesome games, but that record is bad. Pure ownership.

This really just makes me wonder: what happened to the PAC 12, and the MWC, for that matter? There are no rivalries in those leagues worthy of mentioning? None of the in-state or cross city matchups are intriguing nowadays. Rivalries aren't what they used to be (I think they are 100% dead in NFL, NBA, and close to 100% in NHL and MLB), but there isn't ANYTHING on the West Coast worth noting? If GU-SMC is the biggest rivalry outside of UK/Lou and UNC/Duke (I believe the article is about who #3 is), rivalries are dead in college basketball.

Several rivalries better than GU/SMC:

Utah-BYU
Iowa-Iowa State
Illinois-Mizzou
Kansas-Oklahoma
GU-UW (9 out of 10, but still)

Are big football schools incapable of being part of big basketball rivalries? Why do I never hear of OSU/Michigan or Alabama/Auburn or LSU/Florida on the hardwood? OSU and Michigan have had some pretty good teams in the last 10 years, why do I never hear of it as a basketball rivalry?

Overall, football is just a way bigger deal than basketball. During my time at WSU, I never missed a home football game and the football games were packed (at least for the first half) even though we sucked 3 out of my 5 years. On the flipside, the basketball games are generally empty because we suck. Not really sure the rhyme or reason for it other than a home football game is much more of a party than a basketball game is. Moral of the story: you can get people to watch a bad football team but you can't get people to watch a bad basketball team.

seacatfan
07-25-2016, 12:38 PM
I think the never ending conference realignments has killed a bunch of good rivalries. Some more football, some more basketball. A few that come to mind: Mizzou-Kansas, Texas-Texas A&M, most of the old Big East, Louisville-Memphis was good for quite a while thru various difference conferences, probably plenty more.

And Indiana-Kentucky was a good one that ended similarly to GU-UW.


edited to add--Indiana-Purdue is a fairly contentious rivalry I think.

Does Sparty have a main rival in basketball? I don't think the hardwood version of Michigan vs. Michigan St. is anything like football.

seacatfan
07-25-2016, 12:45 PM
As far as what happened to the Pac 12 and MWC. Pac 12 is still healthy. Been a bit of a revolving door of who is dominant. UCLA-Arizona rivalry dates back thru most of Lute's tenure and quite a few different coaches at UCLA. The Bruins took a big step back last year, but it's still considered an important game. I've seen UCLA fans try to dismiss it as not a rivalry game, but I'm not buying that for a second. I've seen year after year their team come out more fired up and play better against Arizona than they do against pretty much everybody else. Try and tell me the players don't look at it as a rivalry. Aside from that...Stanford was good for a long while under Monty, and Trent Johnson was fairly good, but they've fallen off. Arizona might've been their chief rival during the Monty years as well. Not sure how bitter the Stanford-Cal rivalry is in basketball. Arizona-UW got fairly heated for a few years when the Huskies were actually competing for conference championships, but they couldn't maintain it. Hmm...is a pattern emerging here? Oregon and Utah have been solid in recent years, not sure who their chief bball rivals are.

Mountain West is just a disaster though from where they were 5 years ago or so. BYU left and UNLV and New Mexico are pale shadows of what they were. San Diego St. isn't quite the same the last couple years either. Pretty much everybody hated BYU and I think most of the games between the top 3 or 4 teams were pretty hotly contested, but the league just hasn't been compelling at all recently.

75Zag
07-25-2016, 12:58 PM
I have to go with UCLA - Arizona or perhaps CAL - Stanford as the best West Coast BB rivalries. GU does not really have a regional rival that I can think of. Fifteen or Twenty years ago GU vs WSU was interesting but that is pretty much a dead horse at this point.

Go Bulldogs!

Coach Crazy
07-25-2016, 12:59 PM
I have to go with UCLA - Arizona or perhaps CAL - Stanford as the best West Coast BB rivalries. GU does not really have a regional rival that I can think of. Fifteen or Twenty years ago GU vs WSU was interesting but that is pretty much a dead horse at this point.

Go Bulldogs!

Or is it? (someone please pull the pin on this grenade)

maynard g krebs
07-25-2016, 02:23 PM
Has the UW beaten Oregon in the last 10 years?

In football the Oregon streak is 12, all but the last by 17 or more.

DixieZag
07-25-2016, 02:58 PM
One might've argued that GU-UW had the potential to be had it continued on annually. I say that only b/c of the animosity between the two programs, and in-state and UW football was just awful for a time.

But, unless a school is clearly a basketball first school (like Duke, UNC, Louisville), ,there's just no way that any rivalry carries over to BB season. If Ohio State beats Michigan in football, it's not like it's going to be made up in basketball.

And in some parts of the country, college football is bigger than NFL or any other. People in southern Texas care more about UT and A/M than the Houston's NFL team, same with Atlanta and UGA, Florida-FSU versus Dolphins, Bucs, Jaguars.

CDC84
07-25-2016, 08:36 PM
Before BYU bailed for the WCC, the BYU/SDSU game in the MWC was really heating up into something special.

Coach Crazy
07-26-2016, 07:35 AM
We have to go all the way back to 2011 - 2012 to find the last time St. Mary's won the WCC tourney title (a 4 point overtime win over Gonzaga in the WCC title game back when Pangos and Bell were true freshmen). Don't get me wrong. That was a good win, and SMC deserved to be Champions that year ... a half a decade ago.

Since then, our "rival" has a .182 winning percentage against Gonzaga (2 wins out of 11 games). "All" of their wins (total =2) since the '11/'12 season came during the regular season last year.

If "this" is truly the "Best rivalry out West" ... then it's my belief that basketball in the West is in serious trouble.

Preach.

Zagdawg
07-26-2016, 09:52 AM
Zags and St Marys will be a good challenge this year-- with St Marys returnees and Zags talent.