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ndzagsfan
06-29-2016, 06:15 PM
who do we see as the starting 5 next year?

1. Goss
2. Perkins
3. Jordan Mathews
4. Johnathan Williams
5. Karnowski

top guys off the bench?

gonzagafan62
06-29-2016, 06:28 PM
That's the correct starting lineup. Collins will be inserted as a sophomore. If Karno was gone Collins would be starting. I don't care what anyone thinks.

Top guys off bench: Melson and Collins

ndzagsfan
06-29-2016, 06:37 PM
seems like we should have a deep bench. hopefully the new squad can gel together with the younger guys.

jazzdelmar
06-29-2016, 06:44 PM
Five best.

MTZag03
06-29-2016, 07:24 PM
It's weird to be so unfamiliar with a majority of a starting lineup. I know Goss and Williams already have a year with the team but it's so strange. It's been a while since we've seen such turnover.

zag67
06-29-2016, 09:01 PM
I also agree, but if Karno needs more time then start Collins and bring him in for spot duty until he is ready. Have the reserves give them rest time and have all of them play 100 percent at both ends The starters know they have good solid players giving them a rest.

Mantua
06-29-2016, 09:06 PM
It's weird to be so unfamiliar with a majority of a starting lineup. I know Goss and Williams already have a year with the team but it's so strange. It's been a while since we've seen such turnover.

Kentucky fans must experience that weirdness every year.

zagamatic
06-29-2016, 09:48 PM
From what I've heard from all of these reports, it's going to be splitting hairs on a lot of these guys. Do you run Perkins and Goss together or have them split time running the show? Matthews, Melson,Alberts or Norvell. .....who gets the nod? Is Karnowski going to be healthy enough? Perhaps Rui , Tillie or Larsen are a pleasant surprise? The ones that are least likely to start, but still get good minutes in my mind are Edwards,Alberts and Melson just based on their inconsistency, but perhaps they make a jump this year? For all I know, Jones will be a starter. This is a good problem to have IMO. But it sure makes October seem like an awfully long ways away!
If I HAVE TO pick a starting 5, it's Perkins, Goss, Matthews, Williams and Karnowski with substitutions early and often.

vandalzag
06-30-2016, 06:22 AM
Five best.

This and it may be a fluid piece for a large part of the year. Too many new pieces to say anything is set. Few will have many options depending on who is playing well.

Hooray4Daye&Gray
06-30-2016, 02:10 PM
Agree with the above lineup as the beginning of the season starting 5.

My end of the season starting 5 is:

PG - Nigel Williams-Goss
SG - Jordan Mathews
SF - Rui Hacimura
PF - Zach Collins
C - Przemek Karnowski

Would be a crazy story to once again go deep into the NCAA Tournament, but with 5 different faces than last year in the starting lineup graphic.

jazzdelmar
06-30-2016, 02:20 PM
An interesting possibility.

Goss
Matthews
Norvell
Williams
Collins.

BULLDOG#1
06-30-2016, 02:39 PM
An interesting possibility.

Goss
Matthews
Norvell
Williams
Collins.

A CRAZY possibility (impossible imo) ... Unless of injury, karno and perkins will start.

Coach Crazy
06-30-2016, 02:57 PM
A CRAZY possibility (impossible imo) ... Unless of injury, karno and perkins will start.

Not impossible in terms of a rotation possibility. Bombs for days with a setup like that.

MDABE80
06-30-2016, 03:04 PM
Here it is:
Goss, Josh, Mathews, Norvell.

Collins, Shem, Williams III.

I do not think "starting" or "starters" is important.
Core of 7. Collins will be an ever present talent. He'll get minutes. Maybe depending on the opponent, I do think Collins and Shem will be on the court at the same time. Williams too.

Core of 7 and it's a good core.

zag buddy
06-30-2016, 03:11 PM
Not bad Jazz, I like it very much.

cggonzaga
06-30-2016, 03:25 PM
Here it is:
Goss, Josh, Mathews, Norvell.

Collins, Shem, Williams III.

I do not think "starting" or "starters" is important.
Core of 7. Collins will be an ever present talent. He'll get minutes. Maybe depending on the opponent, I do think Collins and Shem will be on the court at the same time. Williams too.

Core of 7 and it's a good core.

Leaving Melson out of a top 7-8 rotation is just silly to me. Norvell will have to be a very special freshman to surpass Melson imo. Not that Melson is so good it can't be done but Few has always favored upperclassmen when possible.

HalfZagHalfHusky
06-30-2016, 03:26 PM
It will be interesting to see what Few does with the lineup. Goss and Perkins have very similar games and both play the same position. I will be curious to see how they play together. Thanks to their size, they can be on the court together. I think a 3 guard lineup of Goss, Perkins and Mathews will be very effective. Mathews shooting should allow Goss and Perkins to drive the line and keep the defense honest.

HenneZag
06-30-2016, 03:27 PM
This roster is crazy talented. You could make the argument that from 1-8 that any of those guys deserve to start.

MF will go with his comfort zone to start the season as he always does, this year is a lil bit different though with how many new faces we have.

Perkins
Goss
Matthews
JW3
Karn

The next crop could see just as many minutes as the starters such as Collins and Norvell, and maybe Melson. By WCC play this lineup may look the same or be tweeked, time will tell.

Rui/Tillie Are wild cards to me, both very good players that have the ability to be special, looking forward to what they bring.

We will see several different lineups depending on match ups, length, athletic teams etc, that's the beauty of this squad.

strikenowhere
06-30-2016, 04:05 PM
It will be interesting to see what Few does with the lineup. Goss and Perkins have very similar games and both play the same position. I will be curious to see how they play together. Thanks to their size, they can be on the court together. I think a 3 guard lineup of Goss, Perkins and Mathews will be very effective. Mathews shooting should allow Goss and Perkins to drive the line and keep the defense honest.

Other than both being point guards on their teams, I don't see how NWG & Perkins have a similar game? Goss was much more of a scorer with average outside range while Perkins is primary a pass-first facilitator that can shoot the 3.

strikenowhere
06-30-2016, 04:11 PM
My guess would be as follows (to at least start the season):

Starters
----------
Perkins
Goss
Mathews
JWIII
Karnowski (dependent on rehab progress)

Key Reserves
----------------
Collins
Melson
Norvell

Garbage Time/Foul Trouble/Injuries
--------------------------------------------
Edwards
Alberts

Redshirt
----------
Tillie
Larsen
Hachimura

MDABE80
06-30-2016, 04:15 PM
Leaving Melson out of a top 7-8 rotation is just silly to me. Norvell will have to be a very special freshman to surpass Melson imo. Not that Melson is so good it can't be done but Few has always favored upperclassmen when possible.


Might be silly but it'll happen. Silas is a fav kid but he's erratic and a sound team doesn't like erratic play from his position. He's going to get some time but I think the core is pretty much the one we'll see based on early performances. Few's wanting to win. His loyalty is beyond question but this is a team that maybe wins everything. I' thinking he'll go with the consistent performers.

HenneZag
06-30-2016, 04:20 PM
My guess would be as follows (to at least start the season):

Starters
----------
Perkins
Goss
Mathews
JWIII
Karnowski (dependent on rehab progress)

Key Reserves
----------------
Collins
Melson
Norvell

Garbage Time/Foul Trouble/Injuries
--------------------------------------------
Edwards
Alberts

Redshirt
----------
Tillie
Larsen
Hachimura

+1 this is how I see it. Who knows by mid season if Collins will start, that could happen. Along with some other scenarios but this seems the most likely.

cggonzaga
06-30-2016, 05:26 PM
Might be silly but it'll happen. Silas is a fav kid but he's erratic and a sound team doesn't like erratic play from his position. He's going to get some time but I think the core is pretty much the one we'll see based on early performances. Few's wanting to win. His loyalty is beyond question but this is a team that maybe wins everything. I' thinking he'll go with the consistent performers.

Perhaps. Melson was pretty consistent the last half of last year though and one of Few's go to guys down the stretch. I love the reports on Norvell but I'm not ready to anoint him a top reserve quite yet. Playing in a scrimmage is much different than playing in Few's system. We've heard reports of incoming players looking awesome in the summer scrimmages only to see them struggle early in the program.

Virginia Zags Fan
06-30-2016, 05:35 PM
Leaving Melson out of a top 7-8 rotation is just silly to me. Norvell will have to be a very special freshman to surpass Melson imo. Not that Melson is so good it can't be done but Few has always favored upperclassmen when possible.

Melson should be in the top 9 rotation. If he starts or comes off the bench, I do not know. He is going to get minutes.

However, I'm also going to say right now that Norvell is a very special freshman. He is very skilled and he is going to play. Period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MontanaCoyote
06-30-2016, 09:08 PM
Looked at all the posts thinking offense. impressive! On D, any thoughts? I'm thinking Shem will do a lot to keep opponents guards from penetrating. How's it look otherwise on D?

MDABE80
06-30-2016, 09:20 PM
Good question. As far as I can tell, we don't have a lockdown defender. It's a big need. Our good defenders are departed outside of Silas. So many new faces.

MickMick
07-01-2016, 06:58 AM
As long as Perkins isn't on the floor in the last two minutes of a NCAA game, I am good with just about any of the suggested lineups.

Zagnificent
07-01-2016, 07:08 AM
Perhaps. Melson was pretty consistent the last half of last year though and one of Few's go to guys down the stretch. I love the reports on Norvell but I'm not ready to anoint him a top reserve quite yet. Playing in a scrimmage is much different than playing in Few's system. We've heard reports of incoming players looking awesome in the summer scrimmages only to see them struggle early in the program.

He was pretty consistent only because he didn't try to score all that much. He was a reliable defender and a hard worker, clearly, but he didn't try and be a world-beater with his offensive talent.

cjm720
07-01-2016, 07:26 AM
As long as Perkins isn't on the floor in the last two minutes of a NCAA game, I am good with just about any of the suggested lineups.

Because a freshman will never learn. That's a laughable comment. Don't worry though NWG will be the primary ball carrier.

Coach Crazy
07-01-2016, 07:32 AM
While it is just a scrimmage, and there isn't really a lot of defense being played...hearing that Silas is still inconsistent is not something that a Silas fan is going to want to hear. He'll still have a chance to earn his minutes, but Norvell is going to be right there with him. There is absolutely a chance that come the start of the season (regardless of where Few places him) Zack Norvell has surpassed Silas Melson. Doesn't mean Silas won't have a place (especially with the defense he plays)...you just can't keep kids like Zack off the court for formality's sake.

ZagOD7540
07-01-2016, 08:14 AM
Williams-Goss
Perkins
Matthews
Williams III
PK/Collins

Collins and Norvell will get plenty of minutes. These 2 are not your "typical freshman" walking into the program. I understand that these were just scrimmages and not much D is being played, but they did get after one another. For those of us that were able to watch the scrimmages, Norvell is going to be a special player for this program. I felt he was the best player on the floor in the 2 scrimmages I was able to watch. For those of you that haven't seen him yet...just wait. The kid is a player!

jazzdelmar
07-01-2016, 09:27 AM
So if observers say Norvell and Collins are clearly among the best players on the court, why wouldn't they start? Why wouldn't Norvell move Matthews to the two and Collins move Karno to the bench? Fews loyalty? He wasn't all that loyal to Eric that last game when he sat his butt for an inferior player, A mistake he admits.

Coach Crazy
07-01-2016, 09:32 AM
So if observers say Norvell and Collins are clearly among the best players on the court, why wouldn't they start? Why wouldn't Norvell move Matthews to the two and Collins move Karno to the bench? Fews loyalty? He wasn't all that loyal to Eric that last game when he sat his butt for an inferior player, A mistake he admits.

I think it will be a matter of 1. Seeing how things go once the pre-season practices get underway 2. How those same players respond to the OOC and 3. How that translates into WCC production.

You could very well get 3 different players in any one person throughout that duration. If the best players are clearly Zach and Zack, then they will either be starting, at some point, and/or getting the most minutes. It's all going to come down to efficiency in production

Zagdawg
07-01-2016, 09:37 AM
Gonna help ya out on this one Jazz.....it's a scrimmage where little defense is played.......same was said about Angel Nunez -- "most athletic guy on the floor"---- freshman need to learn the system if we are going to win games and get to the 2nd weekend of the dance again.

Players may not start --but they will get plenty of run to further develop and prove themselves.

Mr Vulture
07-01-2016, 09:44 AM
No one said the Karnowski and either Perkins/NWG weren't amongst the best players either. There is going to be a learning curve for Collins and Norvell. I wouldnot even consider starting either one if everyone is ready to go. Karnowski is a way underrated passer which really hurt last year when he was out and experience does matter. This isn't to say that Collins and Norvell don't end up better when all is said and done.


So if observers say Norvell and Collins are clearly among the best players on the court, why wouldn't they start? Why wouldn't Norvell move Matthews to the two and Collins move Karno to the bench? Fews loyalty? He wasn't all that loyal to Eric that last game when he sat his butt for an inferior player, A mistake he admits.

maynard g krebs
07-01-2016, 09:50 AM
As long as Perkins isn't on the floor in the last two minutes of a NCAA game, I am good with just about any of the suggested lineups.

I guess you didn't learn anything from your McClellan comments last year.

maynard g krebs
07-01-2016, 10:08 AM
So if observers say Norvell and Collins are clearly among the best players on the court, why wouldn't they start? Why wouldn't Norvell move Matthews to the two and Collins move Karno to the bench? Fews loyalty? He wasn't all that loyal to Eric that last game when he sat his butt for an inferior player, A mistake he admits.

Same reason Morrison and others didn't. Unless the upperclassmen are just clearly not playing well enough, they won't be displaced in the starting lineup.

As a senior at Mead, Adam was clearly playing at a McDonalds AA level. Carried a team with a good hs pg and a bunch of guys whose future was pickup games at the Y to the big school state title game v Franklin, which had about 4 D1 players (incl MD AA and future NBAer Aaron Brooks), and scored 38 to single handedly keep Mead w/in shouting distance. Remember his first college bucket, the baseline fade away w/ Vitale shouting "are you kidding me". Yet he came off the bench while Tony Skinner started.

Fr starters I can think of are Bell, Pangos, Stepp, maybe Bouldin and Gray part of the time. Probably missing a couple but I can't think of a big who started as a fr for the Zags other than 20 year old Harris. This team has five veterans with pretty high level accomplishments at the D1 level. If guys like Morrison and Daye played around 20 mpg off the bench as fr, that seems like the most likely scenario for this year's fr.

cjm720
07-01-2016, 10:33 AM
NWG
Perkins
Matthews
JW3
Collins

Unfortunately, I am skeptical Karno will be ready. If he is, practice will dictate who starts between Collins and JW3. As Tommy said a few years back, players learn pecking order and who's best pretty quick in practice.

Melson and Norvell first off the bench. I imagine a few will redshirt.

Coach Crazy
07-01-2016, 10:37 AM
Same reason Morrison and others didn't. Unless the upperclassmen are just clearly not playing well enough, they won't be displaced in the starting lineup.

As a senior at Mead, Adam was clearly playing at a McDonalds AA level. Carried a team with a good hs pg and a bunch of guys whose future was pickup games at the Y to the big school state title game v Franklin, which had about 4 D1 players (incl MD AA and future NBAer Aaron Brooks), and scored 38 to single handedly keep Mead w/in shouting distance. Remember his first college bucket, the baseline fade away w/ Vitale shouting "are you kidding me". Yet he came off the bench while Tony Skinner started.

Fr starters I can think of are Bell, Pangos, Stepp, maybe Bouldin and Gray part of the time. Probably missing a couple but I can't think of a big who started as a fr for the Zags other than 20 year old Harris. This team has five veterans with pretty high level accomplishments at the D1 level. If guys like Morrison and Daye played around 20 mpg off the bench as fr, that seems like the most likely scenario for this year's fr.

I would say that this is a year that could be different simply because of the players that they are. I won't rule anything out. Nonetheless, I don't see any non starter that they will be taking a backseat to, if they prove themselves.

kitzbuel
07-01-2016, 10:37 AM
An interesting possibility.

Goss
Matthews
Norvell
Williams
Collins.

That is assuming Few is no longer the coach.

jazzdelmar
07-01-2016, 11:39 AM
Same reason Morrison and others didn't. Unless the upperclassmen are just clearly not playing well enough, they won't be displaced in the starting lineup.

As a senior at Mead, Adam was clearly playing at a McDonalds AA level. Carried a team with a good hs pg and a bunch of guys whose future was pickup games at the Y to the big school state title game v Franklin, which had about 4 D1 players (incl MD AA and future NBAer Aaron Brooks), and scored 38 to single handedly keep Mead w/in shouting distance. Remember his first college bucket, the baseline fade away w/ Vitale shouting "are you kidding me". Yet he came off the bench while Tony Skinner started.

Fr starters I can think of are Bell, Pangos, Stepp, maybe Bouldin and Gray part of the time. Probably missing a couple but I can't think of a big who started as a fr for the Zags other than 20 year old Harris. This team has five veterans with pretty high level accomplishments at the D1 level. If guys like Morrison and Daye played around 20 mpg off the bench as fr, that seems like the most likely scenario for this year's fr.

That's just plain dumb. Frosh are good enough to start at Duke, UNC, not GU? Few doesn't have to be dumb still. Maybe this is the year he chooses to squeeze all the minutes out of future NBA players rather than keep them under a bushel. And you know who I'm talking about. If Karno stays healthy, Sabonis is still at GU.

cggonzaga
07-01-2016, 12:01 PM
That's just plain dumb. Frosh are good enough to start at Duke, UNC, not GU? Few doesn't have to be dumb still. Maybe this is the year he chooses to squeeze all the minutes out of future NBA players rather than keep them under a bushel. And you know who I'm talking about. If Karno stays healthy, Sabonis is still at GU.

Freshmen start at those schools for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) they're NBA ready but have to go to college for a year or 2) they have so many guys leaving early for the pros, they have to start freshmen because they don't generally have upperclassmen.

jazzdelmar
07-01-2016, 12:03 PM
Freshmen start at those schools for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) they're NBA ready but have to go to college for a year or 2) they have so many guys leaving early for the pros, they have to start freshmen because they don't generally have upperclassmen.

And that is materially different from the new Gonzaga how?

Coach Crazy
07-01-2016, 12:07 PM
Freshmen start at those schools for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) they're NBA ready but have to go to college for a year or 2) they have so many guys leaving early for the pros, they have to start freshmen because they don't generally have upperclassmen.

This sentiment is somewhat pre-Big 5 thinking. Silas is going to be in a fight for his playing minutes life this off-season. Norvell is the real deal. Special talent.

ZagOD7540
07-01-2016, 01:10 PM
Well put Coach. I've been a big Melson fan since day 1. He struggled shooting in the 2 scrimmages I saw. He had good looks and wide open shots but nothing was falling for him. (He did hit one 3 that was the game winner of one scrimmage) I could see the frustration on his face. He may have to turn into a "slasher" early on in games and get to the line to get into a good rhythm. He jumps so well. Maybe he needs to attack the rim a bit more off of the wing. I'm sure Coach Few saw this frustration during the scrimmages. You can tell he hasn't shaken this whole shooting slump off just yet. I hope he has a great junior year. He's going to have to show something this year. Norvell is going to battle him big time! Norvell is a big body that will be nice to have in that back court.

gozagswoohoo
07-01-2016, 01:24 PM
Because a freshman will never learn. That's a laughable comment. Don't worry though NWG will be the primary ball carrier.

Right. I did NOT like Pargo his freshman season...

He turned out to be one of our best ever.

vandalzag
07-01-2016, 01:55 PM
That's just plain dumb. Frosh are good enough to start at Duke, UNC, not GU? Few doesn't have to be dumb still. Maybe this is the year he chooses to squeeze all the minutes out of future NBA players rather than keep them under a bushel. And you know who I'm talking about. If Karno stays healthy, Sabonis is still at GU.

This ranks as one of your all time great posts. I heard Few is going to make Collins play in his bare feet while wearing an eye patch just to make sure he does not produce enough to get noticed by the NBA. Because there is so much talent on this team he will not even let them use a real basketball during practice (when he actually practices since he has not interest in developing he usually just plays a movie during practice), instead they are going to use a civil war replica cannon ball. I mean I remember when Morrison played his Junior year and Few would not let him shoot at all, he could only play defense and rebound. But those darn NBA guys found them anyway. It is just so simple to see Jazz, why are these players so dumb that they want to play for somebody who is against them going to the NBA, let alone allowing them to produce at the college level.

zag buddy
07-01-2016, 02:00 PM
Reportedly Morrison told Mallon when they first got in the game-OK Shawn now let's score. By Fews face I could surmise that it was not the total set run to it's conclusion but they just kept scoring so it was hard for coach Few to slow Morrison down.

cjm720
07-01-2016, 02:02 PM
That's just plain dumb. Frosh are good enough to start at Duke, UNC, not GU? Few doesn't have to be dumb still. Maybe this is the year he chooses to squeeze all the minutes out of future NBA players rather than keep them under a bushel. And you know who I'm talking about. If Karno stays healthy, Sabonis is still at GU.

Different level Jazz...are starting 5 are not McD's...lots of freshman do not start on Duke and the like also...maybe they would on our team, maybe they wouldn't. Your fooling yourself if you don't think Coach plays the best he feels will help the team win.

titopoet
07-01-2016, 02:19 PM
It's weird to be so unfamiliar with a majority of a starting lineup. I know Goss and Williams already have a year with the team but it's so strange. It's been a while since we've seen such turnover.

Since E harris first year, I think.

tyra
07-01-2016, 03:25 PM
I am still wondering if any of the unmentioned freshmen are being overlooked for this year, in particular Hachimura.

Bogozags
07-01-2016, 04:36 PM
Coach Few does like his "sets" so the freshman will have to learn all of them AND on top of that, each of them will have to prove they can play defence at the D1 level...which has not been seen at the scrimmages.

Running up and down the court and playing "street" ball is fun BUT that isn't the same as scrimmaging during practice...that is what will separate the men from the boys. If Norvell and Collins can defend and score within the offence, then they will get ample playing time. With regards to Collins, if PK cannot go on day one, then I believe Collins will have the opportunity to be the starter and PK would coming off the bench and I believe that would make him the first freshman to start at the five spot too!

zag67
07-01-2016, 06:16 PM
They were saying that PK would probably not be 100 percent until December (and I cannot remember who they were). But if he is able to play "groups" of minutes, I think that you will see him start and then Collins coming in shortly. This allows Collins to see how the game is being played and called he will probably play better and get more minutes.

Mantua
07-01-2016, 09:50 PM
Good question. As far as I can tell, we don't have a lockdown defender. It's a big need. Our good defenders are departed outside of Silas. So many new faces.

That's my biggest worry.

GoZags
07-02-2016, 06:22 AM
That's my biggest worry.

Meet Mr. Jones.

There is a pretty good reason a guy that averaged less than 10 ppg in high school is playing D1 hoops (at a high level). My guess is with the offensive firepower this year's Zags will have ... they shouldn't skip a beat if Jones is needed for stretches to lock down a guy who is lighting it up.