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MDABE80
05-26-2016, 05:18 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/no-1-duke-no-2-kentucky-hold-steady-in-post-draft-decisions-top-25-and-one/

SMC @ 14? Zags @ 16?? They do value Karno coming back. Not so sure. Collins and Williams II will push the Zags higher IMHO. I see they value Perks and Goss. We'll be good this upcoming year. E 8 good? Time will tell. We do have a verytalented top 8 kids. Might be as good talent wise since 2006.
51/2 months we'll know more. I like this team!

Bing
05-26-2016, 07:12 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/no-1-duke-no-2-kentucky-hold-steady-in-post-draft-decisions-top-25-and-one/

SMC @ 14? Zags @ 16?? They do value Karno coming back. Not so sure. Collins and Williams II will push the Zags higher IMHO. I see they value Perks and Goss. We'll be good this upcoming year. E 8 good? Time will tell. We do have a verytalented top 8 kids. Might be as good talent wise since 2006.
51/2 months we'll know more. I like this team!

Who is Goss? Is he related to Krispert?

jazzdelmar
05-26-2016, 07:13 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/no-1-duke-no-2-kentucky-hold-steady-in-post-draft-decisions-top-25-and-one/

SMC @ 14? Zags @ 16?? They do value Karno coming back. Not so sure. Collins and Williams II will push the Zags higher IMHO. I see they value Perks and Goss. We'll be good this upcoming year. E 8 good? Time will tell. We do have a verytalented top 8 kids. Might be as good talent wise since 2006.
51/2 months we'll know more. I like this team!

Dock, which one is Ammo again?

Goshzagit
05-26-2016, 07:43 PM
we lost 3 proven, all-american type players.

we have talent, but no where near past teams until proven otherwise.

our most consistent players are gone.

young talent will have to step up.

a healthy karno will help.

not sure we are the best team in WCC this season. a long way to go.

i am excited about the potential. the key term is upside, but this current group hasn't done much in this program, save Karno.

ceiling is high, but foundation isn't finished yet.

gonzagafan62
05-26-2016, 07:53 PM
We are way better than SMC. List is a joke. The one who should be ranked is BYU

gonzagafan62
05-26-2016, 08:07 PM
we lost 3 proven, all-american type players.

we have talent, but no where near past teams until proven otherwise.

our most consistent players are gone.

young talent will have to step up.

a healthy karno will help.

not sure we are the best team in WCC this season. a long way to go.

i am excited about the potential. the key term is upside, but this current group hasn't done much in this program, save Karno.

ceiling is high, but foundation isn't finished yet.

Agreed. But people that follow these teams should know that SMC had all the breaks in the world go their way and still couldn't win it outright. I could easily see BYU winning this conference as well as Gonzaga. But not SMC. BYU and Zags are in the 15-20 in my mind. Is SMC a good team? Sure. A tournament team? Yes. Win conference good? No. Low 30s, high 40s. I think they get in.

By the way, our most consistent players from last year may be gone, but we have a huge consistency of Karnowski.

One wild card in this whole thing is Mikka.

ZagsObserver
05-26-2016, 08:25 PM
Agreed. But people that follow these teams should know that SMC had all the breaks in the world go their way and still couldn't win it outright. I could easily see BYU winning this conference as well as Gonzaga. But not SMC. BYU and Zags are in the 15-20 in my mind. Is SMC a good team? Sure. A tournament team? Yes. Win conference good? No. Low 30s, high 40s. I think they get in.

By the way, our most consistent players from last year may be gone, but we have a huge consistency of Karnowski.

One wild card in this whole thing is Mikka.

Yep. Agreed

ZAG 4 LIFE
05-26-2016, 10:19 PM
Yep. Agreed

Speaking of Mika.... What did he decide to do?
Stay in Provo?
Transfer to Utah? Somewhere else?
Still thinking on it? :confused:

hooter73
05-26-2016, 10:49 PM
I'll reserve judgement until I see if SMC will play any non junior colleges, only at their place, for the entire non conference schedule...

raise the zag
05-27-2016, 03:56 AM
Speaking of Mika.... What did he decide to do?
Stay in Provo?
Transfer to Utah? Somewhere else?
Still thinking on it? :confused:

Stay at BYU.

Emery, Mika, & Haws for the next 3 yrs!

BYU will be much improved next season. They add some very good transfers & a couple Top-100 kids to the fold.

Everyone overlooking an excellent BYU team. I think they'll beat SMC next season too.

Coach Crazy
05-27-2016, 04:47 AM
Stay at BYU.

Emery, Mika, & Haws for the next 3 yrs!

BYU will be much improved next season. They add some very good transfers & a couple Top-100 kids to the fold.

Everyone overlooking an excellent BYU team. I think they'll beat SMC next season too.

Not everyone...

vandalzag
05-27-2016, 07:32 AM
Stay at BYU.

Emery, Mika, & Haws for the next 3 yrs!

BYU will be much improved next season. They add some very good transfers & a couple Top-100 kids to the fold.

Everyone overlooking an excellent BYU team. I think they'll beat SMC next season too.


It will be interesting to see if Emery evolves into a Carlino type player that shoots them in and out of games. They should be good, but losing Collinsworth will be huge. He filled a lot of holes for that team. It will be huge.

As good as SMC was last year do not see them being better than the Zags, especially if Meslon and Perkins pick up where they left off.

Coach Crazy
05-27-2016, 08:01 AM
It will be interesting to see if Emery evolves into a Carlino type player that shoots them in and out of games. They should be good, but losing Collinsworth will be huge. He filled a lot of holes for that team. It will be huge.

As good as SMC was last year do not see them being better than the Zags, especially if Meslon and Perkins pick up where they left off.

Would be very surprised if that were the case.

gonzagafan62
05-27-2016, 08:14 AM
Would be very surprised if that were the case.

Me too. And I say that because Emery seems (now I have no available information to back this claim up) but he seems like more of a dead eye shooter. He nailed a lot of big time shots as just a frosh. He's only going to get better in my estimation.

LongIslandZagFan
05-27-2016, 08:39 AM
We are way better than SMC. List is a joke. The one who should be ranked is BYU

I'd not take SMC lightly. They swept GU last year in conference play and they have EVERYONE back. BYU... will be good... but Collinsworth is a HUGE hole to fill.

Zagdawg
05-27-2016, 08:54 AM
All three programs are going to be solid-- hope that everyone steps up to schedule some solid out of conference competition so that the league RPI is enhanced and a loss to one of the top three is not a seed killer.

gonzagafan62
05-27-2016, 09:30 AM
I'd not take SMC lightly. They swept GU last year in conference play and they have EVERYONE back. BYU... will be good... but Collinsworth is a HUGE hole to fill.

I'm not saying take them lightly. Like I said, SMC is a tourney caliber squad. We took them lightly last year. Had them at their place and let them off the hook, and then at our place we playe our worst game of the year and still almost beat them.

TheZagPhish
05-27-2016, 09:34 AM
...Collinsworth is a HUGE hole to fill.

Triple-double machine? Yeah.

One can only hope that KC gets as much rear-view mirror love as Jimmer!TM

Mr Vulture
05-27-2016, 09:43 AM
Who did we lose that was a 3rd AA type player? I know Wiltjer and Sabonis.....

For those that are worried about SMC, I know they have everyone back, but I also think what you saw last year is what you get this year. I thought they were overrated last year based on a terrible OOC schedule that they played almost exclusively at home. The thing that make Gonzaga better this year is that we won't be limited to 7 deeps that includes two players that likely shouldn't have played at all last year. I think SMC is clearly behind the Zags and I also think BYU will be better than them...even without Collinsworth.


we lost 3 proven, all-american type players.

we have talent, but no where near past teams until proven otherwise.

our most consistent players are gone.

young talent will have to step up.

a healthy karno will help.

not sure we are the best team in WCC this season. a long way to go.

i am excited about the potential. the key term is upside, but this current group hasn't done much in this program, save Karno.

ceiling is high, but foundation isn't finished yet.

bartruff1
05-27-2016, 10:10 AM
The only team in this forum that is consistently more overrated than Gonzaga is BYU....NIT bound.......

Zagdawg
05-27-2016, 10:11 AM
Huh?.........................

sittingon50
05-27-2016, 11:21 AM
I'd not take SMC lightly. They swept GU last year in conference play and they have EVERYONE back. BYU... will be good... but Collinsworth is a HUGE hole to fill.

I agree with LI. I'm thinkin' SMC will again get out of the gates strong with everyone back (not sure what their OOC is looking like). GU & BYU will each take awhile to integrate all their new guys. At the end I think it's GU because I know them better (& am somewhat of a homer), but it could well be a coin flip between all 3. The advantage is that The Orleans is a home game for the Zags.

CDC84
05-27-2016, 11:23 AM
Gonzaga's backcourt play is going to be better and more consistent this season with NWG in the lineup. NWG's presence will allow Perkins to flourish. He will have nowhere near the same amount of pressure on him.

While losing Sabonis and Wiltjer hurts, this could be the best defensive frontline that Few has coached at Gonzaga. Karno is a defensive force in the middle. He eats up so much space. JW3 is the best weak side shot blocker the program has had since Turiaf. Karno and JW3 are going complement each other so well on the defensive end. I actually think next year's team will matchup better with St. Mary's than last year's team. Randy Bennett will not be able to isolate and exploit Wiltjer with the high ball screens. JW3 is versatile enough to guard anyone, and he's long and athletic enough to recover if he gets beat. Of course all the rim protection will allow GU's guards to extend out, apply ball pressure and protect the 3 point line. It should also be noted that Zach Collins looks to be a pretty good defender as well, but that aspect of his game will evolve as he gains more experience at the college level.

I think next year's GU team is going to be very, very good. The problem is that the overall college basketball landscape will be much improved this season. The 2015 recruiting class was incredibly weak. There was a real lack of talent throughout college basketball. But things are now different. Some recruiting analysts believe the 2016 class is the deepest and most talented class in nearly 25 years. There will be a number of major impact freshman contributing to elite teams next season. It's going to be very hard to advance in next year's NCAA tournament. Wins are going to be way tougher to come by. It is imperative that Gonzaga get a high seed.

Coach Crazy
05-27-2016, 11:35 AM
I'd not take SMC lightly. They swept GU last year in conference play and they have EVERYONE back. BYU... will be good... but Collinsworth is a HUGE hole to fill.

They beat a Gonzaga team that was very much not consistent and struggling from lack of depth. There will be more cohesion and depth, this year. As well as more talent. To me, they have hit or are getting close to their plateau.

LongIslandZagFan
05-27-2016, 11:41 AM
They beat a Gonzaga team that was very much not consistent and struggling from lack of depth. There will be more cohesion and depth, this year. As well as more talent. To me, they have hit or are getting close to their plateau.

Won't argue that. But to assume SMC is going to go flat is a bit silly too. Teams that return intact don't regress typically, they progress and get better as the core of the team is more in-tune with each other.

Coach Crazy
05-27-2016, 01:16 PM
Won't argue that. But to assume SMC is going to go flat is a bit silly too. Teams that return intact don't regress typically, they progress and get better as the core of the team is more in-tune with each other.

No, it's not. If this SMC team played an actual schedule, and Gonzaga isn't playing beneath itself, the results are different, the extrapolations are different, and the concluding perception that leads to further prognostication is different. BYU is going to be able to keep up with Gonzaga, when all is said and done...and SMC is behind BYU. I have no other logical conclusion I can make from that view point. Perhaps SMC wins a few against Gonzaga, but Gonzaga will only have one team that is even close to challenging, and that will be the Zoob's.

MDABE80
05-27-2016, 01:18 PM
Gonzaga's backcourt play is going to be better and more consistent this season with NWG in the lineup. NWG's presence will allow Perkins to flourish. He will have nowhere near the same amount of pressure on him.

While losing Sabonis and Wiltjer hurts, this could be the best defensive frontline that Few has coached at Gonzaga. Karno is a defensive force in the middle. He eats up so much space. JW3 is the best weak side shot blocker the program has had since Turiaf. Karno and JW3 are going complement each other so well on the defensive end. I actually think next year's team will matchup better with St. Mary's than last year's team. Randy Bennett will not be able to isolate and exploit Wiltjer with the high ball screens. JW3 is versatile enough to guard anyone, and he's long and athletic enough to recover if he gets beat. Of course all the rim protection will allow GU's guards to extend out, apply ball pressure and protect the 3 point line. It should also be noted that Zach Collins looks to be a pretty good defender as well, but that aspect of his game will evolve as he gains more experience at the college level.

I think next year's GU team is going to be very, very good. The problem is that the overall college basketball landscape will be much improved this season. The 2015 recruiting class was incredibly weak. There was a real lack of talent throughout college basketball. But things are now different. Some recruiting analysts believe the 2016 class is the deepest and most talented class in nearly 25 years. There will be a number of major impact freshman contributing to elite teams next season. It's going to be very hard to advance in next year's NCAA tournament. Wins are going to be way tougher to come by. It is imperative that Gonzaga get a high seed.

Words of wisdom. I'll add that with Collins, Williams and Karno down low, I'd be surprised if anyone really can penetrate. That leaves the defense to the guards. Here's the issue......guard defense. It must be strong. I never was impressed with Josh's defense.-> not weak just nothing special. Anyone else notice? And with Nigel, I'm not sure how strong his defense is.
Emac will be severely missed in this regard.

Coach Crazy
05-27-2016, 01:24 PM
Words of wisdom. I'll add that with Collins, Williams and Karno down low, I'd be surprised if anyone really can penetrate. That leaves the defense to the guards. Here's the issue......guard defense. It must be strong. I never was impressed with Josh's defense.-> not weak just nothing special. Anyone else notice? And with Nigel, I'm not sure how strong his defense is.
Emac will be severely missed in this regard.

Per bolded #1: I actually want to see some guards try to attempts shots in the lane. Collins, J3, and PK are gonna have a block-fest this year. But I agree.
Per bolded #2: Josh can definitely get better, but his defensive rating was sub 100, so I am not thinking we're at any defcon status, yet. I will say that I believe the guard pack's defense struggled with the fact that there was not a really shot blocking/wall-like presence behind them. I want to see how they play with that presence. Only time will tell for that.

Zag365
05-27-2016, 05:26 PM
All the usual suspects. Hard to get too exorcised over specifics until we see some games in November. With the turnover of personnel in MBB, nearly all teams have to deal with what is a different team each year. We are lucky to have some redshirt talent with experience stepping in this season (and hopefully having a shorter runway to taking off).

It is great that CBS picked up on Shem returning. However, based on other comments on the Board, we are many months from knowing whether and how much he can play at game level. Great Zag family story though. Glad he's back. I think he will be valuable to the team even though he may need a full year rehabbing and playing limited minutes. Hopefully he gets to end of 2016-17 season with enough physical improvement and medical clearance that he will draw pro interest in U.S. or internationally.

GonzagasaurusFlex
05-27-2016, 05:48 PM
Gonzaga's backcourt play is going to be better and more consistent this season with NWG in the lineup. NWG's presence will allow Perkins to flourish. He will have nowhere near the same amount of pressure on him.

While losing Sabonis and Wiltjer hurts, this could be the best defensive frontline that Few has coached at Gonzaga. Karno is a defensive force in the middle. He eats up so much space. JW3 is the best weak side shot blocker the program has had since Turiaf. Karno and JW3 are going complement each other so well on the defensive end. I actually think next year's team will matchup better with St. Mary's than last year's team. Randy Bennett will not be able to isolate and exploit Wiltjer with the high ball screens. JW3 is versatile enough to guard anyone, and he's long and athletic enough to recover if he gets beat. Of course all the rim protection will allow GU's guards to extend out, apply ball pressure and protect the 3 point line. It should also be noted that Zach Collins looks to be a pretty good defender as well, but that aspect of his game will evolve as he gains more experience at the college level.

I think next year's GU team is going to be very, very good. The problem is that the overall college basketball landscape will be much improved this season. The 2015 recruiting class was incredibly weak. There was a real lack of talent throughout college basketball. But things are now different. Some recruiting analysts believe the 2016 class is the deepest and most talented class in nearly 25 years. There will be a number of major impact freshman contributing to elite teams next season. It's going to be very hard to advance in next year's NCAA tournament. Wins are going to be way tougher to come by. It is imperative that Gonzaga get a high seed.

I share your optimism about Zags D next season but perhaps more worried about Zags lack of a proven clutch scorer, particularly in the post. Hopefully that will be PK but far from certain. Also agree college hoops will have some juggernauts next season so Zags gotta earn high seed and avoid teams like Duke, Kentucky etc for as long as possible. Blue Devils will be dominant next year w veteran backcourt and a couple superstar frosh