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seasontixholder
04-22-2016, 02:01 PM
Gonna be a different situation next year for Emery, Naar, and anybody else that confronts the Zag frontline. Those unnecessary Kennel losses last year happened because of relentless onslaughts into the paint by opposing guards in the second halves, whether it was the PAC or the WCC teams. They took advantage of weak presence on the pick/roll and hesitance by whatever resistance that followed.

Of course, the defense upside depends upon Shem returning. If so, the front line defense will be elite. There either will be the massive-ness of the fifth-year senior or the athleticism of JWIII or Collins to contend with. Shooting percentages in those situations will decrease from where they were last year, even during the later stages of the season where the Zags regrouped.

Defense as a whole will improve. Sure, losing EMac is a hit. But our two younger guards are seasoned now. Perk is more solid. And Silas is a mainstay. Gone are the Kyles, but that is a wash. JWIII has a motor and was very active on defense during Kraziness last year.

Defense travels, but it also will exert itself at home this year.

MDABE80
04-22-2016, 02:22 PM
I really DO hope RYan Edwards is working his tail off to improve. His size alone would help. I hope he gets some confidence. Some here think he's a lost cause. I thought the same of Karno his first 1.5 years. Then he stepped up...not so much in his stats but how he played. Tillie's foot is of concern. Perhaps someone knows how that issue is going.
It'll be quite a show this upcoming year. Both of the new guys are shot blockers and good athletes down low. Balls flyin everywhere.

cggonzaga
04-22-2016, 02:57 PM
The comparison of Karno to Edwards is ridiculous. Karno has been solid from day one and got better every year after. Edwards showed up as a project and hasn't seemed to get a whole lot better since. Hope he improves (if he stays, my own thought) because we could another big with some experience.

tinfoilzag
04-22-2016, 03:32 PM
I remember when people were down on Will Foster because he wasn't living up to the potential of his size. It took him time to maximize his strengths while learning to minimize his weaknesses. By his senior year he was able to provide short bursts of good minutes and was valuable in WCC play. I think Edwards can do the same thing.

Maybe I don't have all the info on Ryan but it seems like he's coming along just like you would expect a long-term project player would. I wouldn't be surprised as some if he figures out how to get 10 minutes a game next season.

seasontixholder
04-22-2016, 03:52 PM
I have no problem with Ryan Edwards. He is an insurance policy in case of disaster. He's shown more than a few stretches of servicibility, and has more tools than WillF.

It's his puzzling lapses that frustrate us. He gets yanked because he'll just look awful when a lack of concentration bites him. He also will let a failure haunt him at the other end.

But he still has two years and can be OK. But let's talk straight: he's more of a beta than an alpha dog.

cjm720
04-22-2016, 05:50 PM
If Edwards got the time he'd be pretty good. Randy B would turn him into a borderline all-WCC player. We have had the luxury to improve our recruiting and Edwards simply can't get on the floor enough to get in the rhythm. Just my take.

And totally agree with the OP...

MDABE80
04-22-2016, 06:43 PM
The comparison of Karno to Edwards is ridiculous. Karno has been solid from day one and got better every year after. Edwards showed up as a project and hasn't seemed to get a whole lot better since. Hope he improves (if he stays, my own thought) because we could another big with some experience.

My friend....Karno could hardly catch a pass his first year. What he could cthch he usually fumbled away. His passing was decent. Wasn't till his last half of the year 2014-2015 that he began to look decent. Edwards is not Karno except in size. He gets distracted and we all agreed last year his focus needs a lot of improvment. He runs the floor well, makes his FT and if he'd larn positioning, he'd be a good rebounder too. I only hope he is working his tail off/ Were going to need him. He gives good minutes and doesn't screw up...he just goes quiet for unexplained periods..
He clocks shotin the key.and even though he isn't a star, there's nothing to say he can't add quite a bit to this team.

seacatfan
04-22-2016, 06:56 PM
Karno had several double digit scoring games at the beginning of his freshman year, including dropping 20 on someone fairly early. Granted it was against some of the softer OOC competition, but still...

I think Edwards has ONE double figure scoring game in his career thus far. RS soph, so 3 years in the program. I'd have a hard time accepting Edwards right now is even with where Karno was developmentally during his freshman year, and he is certainly WAY behind where Karno was at the end of his 2nd year as a soph w/ no RS taken. Don't see any reason to think Edwards is gonna get anywhere remotely close to where Karno was as a soph or Jr.

MDABE80
04-23-2016, 01:28 AM
Of course Sea....look who has had playing in front of him...... Hard to make a splash. I don't think he's Karno good. DOn't get me wrong friends. BUT I do think think he could be lots better if he worked his ass off and get some coach to train him nonstop.. He's got the soft hands ...and some good skills. I hope he does well. He's got 2 years to improve. I do think he could add a lot to the team but his skills aren't there yet. Coach Crazy,get over to campus and train him up!

Zagceo
04-23-2016, 01:33 AM
Coach was banned.......

jazzdelmar
04-23-2016, 06:10 AM
Coach was banned.......

In perpetuity?

GlacierZag
04-23-2016, 06:51 AM
Coach was banned.......

It looks to me as if Coach is no longer "banned" ....

MDABE80
04-23-2016, 03:03 PM
He can rejoin us any time he wants. "Us of the howing banchee bunch! The seawolves of the Northwest"......... Oh..........that's a different book;) He's welcome to return though........

seasontixholder
05-03-2016, 06:51 AM
There was some opinion in the Kispert thread that it was a coaching error not to start Sabonis in more games. The implication was that Karnowski deserved to ride the pine, and that the coaches were deficient. Same ol, same ol. There are so many flaws in that argument that I won't even bother to address it, other than to recommend reading the OP in this thread.

Should Shem return, and at the same skill level, he WILL start and be the anchor again. He brings positives that past and present youngsters couldn't/can't match. First and foremost, talent that demands an immediate double-team. Ernie Kent found that out the hard way. Secondly, bulk that flat out wears down college "centers" (translation: forwards). Ask Brad Waldow. Twitter Tony Parker and have him refresh you on his numbers re: Shem vs Sabonis, say.

Gonzaga had a wealth of riches during the Shem/Wiltjer/Sabonis games, when the latter could substitute at center after Shem had begun to wear down the opponent; and then switch to forward when Shem returned. That same pattern will be employed in 2016-17, only with JWIII serving as the true 4. Shem/JWIII. Then Collins/JWIII. Then Shem/Collins. And Edwards available for spot/emergency stretches. Health permitting, what a great situation again.

MontanaCoyote
05-03-2016, 11:47 AM
There was some opinion in the Kispert thread that it was a coaching error not to start Sabonis in more games. The implication was that Karnowski deserved to ride the pine, and that the coaches were deficient. Same ol, same ol. There are so many flaws in that argument that I won't even bother to address it, other than to recommend reading the OP in this thread.

Should Shem return, and at the same skill level, he WILL start and be the anchor again. He brings positives that past and present youngsters couldn't/can't match. First and foremost, talent that demands an immediate double-team. Ernie Kent found that out the hard way. Secondly, bulk that flat out wears down college "centers" (translation: forwards). Ask Brad Waldow. Twitter Tony Parker and have him refresh you on his numbers re: Shem vs Sabonis, say.

Gonzaga had a wealth of riches during the Shem/Wiltjer/Sabonis games, when the latter could substitute at center after Shem had begun to wear down the opponent; and then switch to forward when Shem returned. That same pattern will be employed in 2016-17, only with JWIII serving as the true 4. Shem/JWIII. Then Collins/JWIII. Then Shem/Collins. And Edwards available for spot/emergency stretches. Health permitting, what a great situation again.
I really agree with this! Hope we get to see it. Best to Shem, though, regardless of what he decides.

amaronizag
05-03-2016, 02:49 PM
I totally agree with the two above posts about Karno. It would have been a very different year with Karno starting at the 5 --(FF?). Sabonis stepped and had a great year as a 4 filling in at the 5, but not as a true 5. Karno is a mountain of a man with GREAT hands and footwork, just a different game, body, and skill set than Sabonis. If healthy and in game shape, he will start at the 5. Few will again be faced with the question "can we start all three bigs?" Karno at the 5, Collins at the 4, and JWIII at the 3? Better to have too much talent than too little as we had after Karno got hurt. Can't wait to see all the nightmare matchup players we'll have on the floor this year.

MDABE80
05-03-2016, 06:47 PM
Rotate those bigs. It's quite a bit of talent to chose from. I'd guess the minutes will go to who best fits s schems to beat the other team. In this system it really doesn't matter who starts. If Shem gets back, he'll get plenty of time when clogging up the key is a priority. Zach and WIlliams are both outstanding movers and superior athletes and very good shooters. Throw in Edwards and it'll be a very tough 4 bigs to compete against IMO. I'm not sure if Tillie ( 6 ft 10 in) will get many minutes even if his foot is ready to go. He's a great shooter with plenty of body control with very good hops.
I don't see any of these guys as a 3 though. A lot depends on who we're playing. I do think the 1-3 sots in general will be Josh, Goss, Norvelle and Silas. Who knows though, plenty of time left to bring a great 3 in...
We lost 4 starters. It's a big deal and that's the main reason our rankings won't be so great to begin the seson. I'm braced for it. It will be quite similar to evaluating last year's team with untested guards after Wes, Kevin and Gary left.

How Few puts these new faces together will take lots of shrewd management. The talent is there though.

seasontixholder
05-04-2016, 07:40 AM
The best thing about having the younger players (Sabonis, Collins maybe) substitute behind Shem was their luxury of development while playing two positions 4 & 5. Otherwise, they were/are locked into the 5 spot only.

Looking back, Sabonis's education on the court was a perfect situation for him. He expanded his game, while playing behind veteran 4's and 5's (and working against competitive mates in practice). He learned how to control his emotions and foul tendencies, while still being able to contribute significantly during game situations.

The alternative suggested (starting him over Karnowski) would have been a coaching pratfall. Besides all of the downsides on benching an upperclass force-to-be-reckoned-with, it would have put pressure on a teen that hadn't come close to maturing or honing his game by that point.