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thespywhozaggedme
04-04-2016, 08:59 PM
This list without us on it is a joke.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15123601/duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-college-basketball-top-25-2016-2017

zagsfanforlife
04-04-2016, 09:00 PM
This list without us on it is a joke.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15123601/duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-college-basketball-top-25-2016-2017

Great. Want my 100-1 odds

GeorgiaZagFan
04-04-2016, 09:15 PM
This list without us on it is a joke.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15123601/duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-college-basketball-top-25-2016-2017

they are looking at no Sabonis, no Wiltjer, no Karnowski, no McClellan, and no Dranginis ...which made up a big part of this year's team (minus the PK injury of course) ..but that is still a lot of missing points and rebounds to be replaced.

But I like it this way...the Zags will do very well next year, make the tournament again, have some Big East, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Big Ten, or whatever team's fans talk about how the Zags have not played anyone the caliber of their team and the Zags don't stand a chance against them (i.e. Seton Hall, St. Johns, Iowa, Florida State, West Virginia, ...etc over the years) ...and then the Zags go out and wax the floor with them and win by double-digit points...

CDC84
04-04-2016, 09:21 PM
Again, it is absurd to take these lists seriously with the new NBA draft combine rules where every mother's son is going to declare for the draft without signing w/ an agent, and when the grad transfer bonanza has yet to really begin. There are also spring HS recruits to be had. Nobody knows anything at this point.

TheZagPhish
04-04-2016, 09:32 PM
Nobody knows anything at this point.

But that doesn't sell copy.

CDC84
04-04-2016, 10:20 PM
Of course.

Naph
04-04-2016, 11:18 PM
ESPN's way too early top 25; Zags nowhere to be found

Now strictly speaking that's not quite true. You can find Gonzaga getting a mention in the blurb on #23 Saint Mary's Gaels...

WallaWallaZag
04-04-2016, 11:57 PM
i have no problem with the zags being left out considering how much they are in a state of flux...if you're being truly honest, the only proven commodity returning with certainty is nwg...the jury is still out on perkins (even more so melson)...and jw3 was a good player on a horrible team, similar to a gerard coleman, so he's no guarantee either.

Naph
04-05-2016, 01:01 AM
CBS has the Zags at #20

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25542228/duke-is-ranked-no-1-in-the-ridiculously-early-preseason-top-25-and-one

Outraged
04-05-2016, 01:18 AM
The wcc should be very good this year. Hopefully they learned their scheduling lesson. Hopefully if so perhaps three top 25 teams. Three totournament it would help if the bottom two teams are above 200.

ZagaZags
04-05-2016, 01:27 AM
CBS has the Zags at #20

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25542228/duke-is-ranked-no-1-in-the-ridiculously-early-preseason-top-25-and-one

Evidently, Gary Parrish didn't get the memo.



20. GONZAGA

•Notable players definitely gone: Kyle Wiltjer, Eric McClellan, Kyle Dranginis
•Others expected to leave: Domantas Sabonis
•Notable players we expect to return: Przemek Karnowski, Josh Perkins, Ryan Edwards, Silas Melson, Bryan Alberts
•Others we expect to join the roster: Nigel Williams-Goss, Jonathan Williams, Zach Collins, Killian Tillie, Jacob Larson, Zach, Norvell, Rui Hachimura

http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/1b2157e533492e78297c16e6cbe1dfceb91d191.gif

bartruff1
04-05-2016, 05:31 AM
I think they are pretty close...the usual suspects are there year after year....of course there will be some disappointments and some surprises but these programs are nearly always in the rankings...

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2016, 06:11 AM
they are looking at no Sabonis, no Wiltjer, no Karnowski, no McClellan, and no Dranginis ...which made up a big part of this year's team (minus the PK injury of course) ..but that is still a lot of missing points and rebounds to be replaced.

But I like it this way...the Zags will do very well next year, make the tournament again, have some Big East, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Big Ten, or whatever team's fans talk about how the Zags have not played anyone the caliber of their team and the Zags don't stand a chance against them (i.e. Seton Hall, St. Johns, Iowa, Florida State, West Virginia, ...etc over the years) ...and then the Zags go out and wax the floor with them and win by double-digit points...
How do you know that? Plus many of the other teams on the list have players that will most likely come out, plus they list top incoming freshmen with those other teams.

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2016, 06:12 AM
Again, it is absurd to take these lists seriously with the new NBA draft combine rules where every mother's son is going to declare for the draft without signing w/ an agent, and when the grad transfer bonanza has yet to really begin. There are also spring HS recruits to be had. Nobody knows anything at this point.

Agreed, but that goes for every team on the list; and that's my point.

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2016, 06:12 AM
I think they are pretty close...the usual suspects are there year after year....of course there will be some disappointments and some surprises but these programs are nearly always in the rankings...

St. Marys?

btzag
04-05-2016, 06:37 AM
Weird thing is that Collins is a 5-star newcomer and Nwg and Jwill are 5-star impact level transfer newcomers. Plus Norvell who is the best player coming out of Chicago! Add those 4 to our returning guys and you don't think we are top 25 worthy? Ridiculous, especially when some of the top 5 rankings are based solely around 2 or 3 newcomers and their potential!

bartruff1
04-05-2016, 06:38 AM
St. Marys?

Could be...I think they have everyone back from a team that beat Gonzaga twice last year.....the top ten looks pretty good, but after that things get pretty sketchy with some 25 or more teams capable of making the top 25.... am not going to arguing about rankings...for one thing, I could care less about them...

gonzagafan62
04-05-2016, 06:48 AM
Gonzales not being in this list is a complete sham. We should be in top 15 and SMC should be Top 25. This is pathetic

gonzagafan62
04-05-2016, 06:50 AM
Evidently, Gary Parrish didn't get the memo.




http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/1b2157e533492e78297c16e6cbe1dfceb91d191.gif

Nothing is final. And every is as was 2 weeks ago. He gets a pass because he doesnt base on what ifs, he goes on facts

cbbfanatic
04-05-2016, 06:50 AM
i have no problem with the zags being left out considering how much they are in a state of flux...if you're being truly honest, the only proven commodity returning with certainty is nwg...the jury is still out on perkins (even more so melson)...and jw3 was a good player on a horrible team, similar to a gerard coleman, so he's no guarantee either.

agreed. lots of nice looking pieces on paper, but even NWG is a bit of a question... sat a transfer year, changing schools, coaches, conferences, all that. transfers arent always golden. GU has a great track record, of course, but these guys (doing the rankings) are looking at it from the outside.

they're also trying to assess everyone else, which quite frankly, this board is not exactly seeing at the expert level. cant look at it in a vacuum

gonzagafan62
04-05-2016, 06:54 AM
agreed. lots of nice looking pieces on paper, but even NWG is a bit of a question... sat a transfer year, changing schools, coaches, conferences, all that. transfers arent always golden. GU has a great track record, of course, but these guys (doing the rankings) are looking at it from the outside.

they're also trying to assess everyone else, which quite frankly, this board is not exactly seeing at the expert level. cant look at it in a vacuum

Good point, but I will say that these experts, are just as good at predicting as we are. Which means nobody knows anything till its played out. Of corse we are more homerish which is fine and they lean more towards blue bloods. Some of the teams in this "Top 25" won't even participate in next years tourney

willandi
04-05-2016, 07:06 AM
Gonzales not being in this list is a complete sham. We should be in top 15 and SMC should be Top 25. This is pathetic

Gonzales???

cbbfanatic
04-05-2016, 07:20 AM
Good point, but I will say that these experts, are just as good at predicting as we are. Which means nobody knows anything till its played out. Of corse we are more homerish which is fine and they lean more towards blue bloods. Some of the teams in this "Top 25" won't even participate in next years tourney

the whole leaning towards the blue bloods thing is pretty well founded by history though, right?

there is a reason they are blue bloods. it's not arbitrary. they typically get the best players and win the most hardware

exclusivelee
04-05-2016, 07:26 AM
Gonzales not being in this list is a complete sham. We should be in top 15 and SMC should be Top 25. This is pathetic
Gonzales???

Gonzalez had a decent freshman year at Saint Mary's. Pretty accurate 3-point shooter [emoji6]

Zagdawg
04-05-2016, 07:28 AM
I'm happy that St Marys is on the the list-- and hopefully they stay there-- they have a great team coming back and it will be great to have 3 more potential top 25 match ups in our conference schedule.

CDC84
04-05-2016, 07:53 AM
Hopefully SMC will beef up their non-league schedule accordingly......

gonzagafan62
04-05-2016, 07:56 AM
Gonzales???

Gotta love auto correct. Marco Gonzalez still doing good? Lmao

23dpg
04-05-2016, 08:01 AM
14th on Yahoo/usatoday

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2016/04/05/college-basketball-early-preseason-top-25-duke-kentucky/82517880/

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2016, 08:19 AM
Weird thing is that Collins is a 5-star newcomer and Nwg and Jwill are 5-star impact level transfer newcomers. Plus Norvell who is the best player coming out of Chicago! Add those 4 to our returning guys and you don't think we are top 25 worthy? Ridiculous, especially when some of the top 5 rankings are based solely around 2 or 3 newcomers and their potential!

Bingo! That's exactly my point

CDC84
04-05-2016, 08:44 AM
I think what many prognosticators are going to be underrating is the fact that NWG and JWIII are not just ordinary transfers. I think NWG, especially, is going to be make an enormous difference. Also, Josh Perkins not having so much on his plate will free him up as an offensive player and playmaking guard.

Also, as great as Wiltjer was offensively, you do have to ask how much he cost Gonzaga defensively.....

It really comes down to whether BOTH Sabonis and Karno leave. If that happens, it will hurt. If one stays, GU will be underestimated by too many media people.

WallaWallaZag
04-05-2016, 08:47 AM
a little over-hype here...collins isn't a 5 star anywhere (yet - meyers has already left hints) and while nwg was and proved it in the pac, jw3 wasn't considered at the same level. norvell is also widely regarded as the 2nd best prospect not the best (charlie moore), and it was considered a down year for illinois. without sabonis, a lot of question marks...even karnowski, if he comes back, has injury concerns...

after about the top 10 maybe 15 it's usually all a crapshoot anyways, whether now or before the tournament starts...

btzag
04-05-2016, 10:57 AM
a little over-hype here...collins isn't a 5 star anywhere (yet - meyers has already left hints) and while nwg was and proved it in the pac, jw3 wasn't considered at the same level. norvell is also widely regarded as the 2nd best prospect not the best (charlie moore), and it was considered a down year for illinois. without sabonis, a lot of question marks...even karnowski, if he comes back, has injury concerns...

after about the top 10 maybe 15 it's usually all a crapshoot anyways, whether now or before the tournament starts...

So Duke returns Grayson Allen and adds a couple unknown high school kids and they are #1?

NWG and Jwill have succeeded on the court in major conferences but they are now suspect?

Don't get this logic...

My take is that newcomers at gu are always questioned while newcomers at major conference schools are lauded.

maynard g krebs
04-05-2016, 10:58 AM
but even NWG is a bit of a question...

I'm certainly in the non-expert category, but I feel quite comfortable saying NWG is not any question whatsoever, and as UW transfer Dan Dickau was, will instantly be a better player in GU's system.

He made a mistake going to play for Romar, whose style doesn't fit his game. As did Dickau w/ Bender at UW, Wiltjer w/ Ky, etc. I'm expecting a similar impact.

Zagceo
04-05-2016, 11:01 AM
I'm certainly in the non-expert category, but I feel quite comfortable saying NWG is not any question whatsoever, and as UW transfer Dan Dickau was, will instantly be a better player in GU's system.

He made a mistake going to play for Romar, whose style doesn't fit his game. As did Dickau w/ Bender at UW, Wiltjer w/ Ky, etc. I'm expecting a similar impact.

I'm guessing cbb was referencing the recent surgeries on NWG.

maynard g krebs
04-05-2016, 11:04 AM
I'm guessing cbb was referencing the recent surgeries on NWG.

Good point. Slipped my mind, and he didn't mention it.

seacatfan
04-05-2016, 11:16 AM
Nothing new, prognosticators always put too much hope in incoming freshmen. Sometimes it pans out, sometimes it doesn't (Duke and Kentucky have both been fairly hit and miss in recent years). I'll go out on a limb and say if Gonzaga had 4 incoming freshmen that were all ranked in the top 25 or so, they would also be in the top 5 of the way too early poll for the next season.

cbbfanatic
04-05-2016, 11:30 AM
So Duke returns Grayson Allen and adds a couple unknown high school kids and they are #1?

.

there's a lot more to it than that though. Duke has a top-to-bottom program that is truly elite. they're (almost) always stacked. for real stacked. they win titles, go to final fours, put lots of kids in the lottery, etc. when their top guys move on, the guys behind them, who were 5 stars or high 4 stars, step right in. they have guys on their bench every year that would get this board (and almost any other one out there) insanely excited.

looking at their commitment list on rivals, from 13-16, they've gotten commitments from 10 ***** kids, 2 **** kids, and 2 *** kids.

its ok for prognosticators to use history as a bit of an indicator of next years performance. that, plus a roster filled with 5 star guys. every. single. year.

raise the zag
04-05-2016, 11:34 AM
Also, as great as Wiltjer was offensively, you do have to ask how much he cost Gonzaga defensively...

As transcendent of an offensive player & scorer he was, his defense single handedly cost us 3 games.

He STEPPED it UP in the NCAA & WCC Tourney, so I know he's capable, but St Mary's scored on 6 straight possessions at one point due to the pick & roll defense on Wiltjer. Arizona and UCLA both isolated and picked on Wiltjer

Kyle will be impossible to replace. He won numerous games for us, and provided consistent scoring/shooting option to set the tone or spread defenses. His versatility on offense is/was unmatched but his defense and rebounding at times were atrocious to non existent.

He gave us way more than his deficiencies cost us, but definitely 3 games were lost in the 2nd half due to said team or player scoring on Wiltjer.

All that said, wouldn't trade Kyle for really anyone. Fun to watch, AMAZING talent, will be remembered for one of the best transfers of all time, if not the best.

thespywhozaggedme
04-05-2016, 12:55 PM
So Duke returns Grayson Allen and adds a couple unknown high school kids and they are #1?

NWG and Jwill have succeeded on the court in major conferences but they are now suspect?

Don't get this logic...

My take is that newcomers at gu are always questioned while newcomers at major conference schools are lauded.

But there's a rumor that Allen is gonna declare for the draft, yet they still include him, yet some posters here said that they didn't list us becuase they think Domas will declare; lack of consistency.

btzag
04-05-2016, 01:04 PM
there's a lot more to it than that though. Duke has a top-to-bottom program that is truly elite. they're (almost) always stacked. for real stacked. they win titles, go to final fours, put lots of kids in the lottery, etc. when their top guys move on, the guys behind them, who were 5 stars or high 4 stars, step right in. they have guys on their bench every year that would get this board (and almost any other one out there) insanely excited.

looking at their commitment list on rivals, from 13-16, they've gotten commitments from 10 ***** kids, 2 **** kids, and 2 *** kids.

its ok for prognosticators to use history as a bit of an indicator of next years performance. that, plus a roster filled with 5 star guys. every. single. year.

Oh I get it, I'm just saying there was zero consistency the measures used in the article. Duke lost in the sweet 16 and loses their only inside force in plumlee and then maybe the most talented scorer in all of cbb and then based solely on a couple newcomers they are ranked #1. Remember everyone also watched Grayson and the rest of coach k's 'elite' recruits all year and they looked like high school freshmen vs Oregon.

Gu also loses a couple players and also brings in a lot of talent and is unranked. Again I just thought the article and 'expert' analysis was terribly written and I completely disagree with the assessment.

zagsfanforlife
04-05-2016, 04:03 PM
Zags are 80-1 odds to start the offseason

gonzagafan62
04-05-2016, 05:30 PM
Zags are 80-1 odds to start the offseason

Better cash in before Shem and Domas state they return

MDABE80
04-05-2016, 05:56 PM
I suspect these voter are as uncertain about our "big man" lineup as they were about the new guards this past season. If Shem and Domas were certain to come back and Collins would give 5 star value with Josh, Nigel and Norvell........we'd be top 10. But since they don't know the situation, they'll need to see the whites of the eyes before they come our way. It's not a big deal anywy..we'll win lots of games and by September when the new polls come out, we'll get votes. Heck even in June when the draft is over, we'll get plenty of attention.........moreso if Domas stays put.

<sigh> it's going to be a long but exiting offseason.

exclusivelee
04-05-2016, 07:14 PM
a little over-hype here...collins isn't a 5 star anywhere (yet - meyers has already left hints) and while nwg was and proved it in the pac, jw3 wasn't considered at the same level. norvell is also widely regarded as the 2nd best prospect not the best (charlie moore), and it was considered a down year for illinois. without sabonis, a lot of question marks...even karnowski, if he comes back, has injury concerns...

after about the top 10 maybe 15 it's usually all a crapshoot anyways, whether now or before the tournament starts...
Collins was also mentioned as strong consideration of a 5-star at Rivals: https://basketballrecruiting.n.rivals.com/news/mcd-s-aa-josh-jackson-leads-week-s-top-performers

Johnathan Williams was actually a consensus top 20 prospect and 5-star during his sophomore and part of his junior year: http://www.theonlycolors.com/2011/6/6/2189911/2013-msu-basketball-recruiting-hotlist

zagsfanforlife
04-06-2016, 08:47 AM
Welll.... its a good thing I only put 20 bucks on GU winning it all next year. No Sabonis = back end of top 25.

WallaWallaZag
04-06-2016, 09:30 AM
Collins was also mentioned as strong consideration of a 5-star at Rivals: https://basketballrecruiting.n.rivals.com/news/mcd-s-aa-josh-jackson-leads-week-s-top-performers

Johnathan Williams was actually a consensus top 20 prospect and 5-star during his sophomore and part of his junior year: http://www.theonlycolors.com/2011/6/6/2189911/2013-msu-basketball-recruiting-hotlist

5 star or not, collins is definitely trending up after the mickey d's week he had...

didn't know that about jw3 but normally a bad sign for prospects imo...means he didn't develop quite as expected and had a disappointing senior year. better to be like collins instead of the other way around. of course, none of that matters for next year.

vandalzag
04-06-2016, 09:56 AM
Rankings right now are garbage. Too many variables. Just a popularity contest to generate traffic.