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thespywhozaggedme
03-25-2016, 09:50 PM
I have no idea why the other thread was closed, quite frankly I couldn't care less, let's try again. Assuming Domas leaves and Shem returns I see Perk, and NWG, Shem and JWIII as locks for starters. Everything else is up in the air. Other than perk we really have no consistent three-point shooting for next season. What say you?

basketballzag
03-25-2016, 09:53 PM
I would say you have two freshmen (the Zachs) coming in who are really good 3 pt shooters. I'm more concerned about the basketball IQ levels coming in because if we lack that the team will be in trouble.

thespywhozaggedme
03-25-2016, 09:59 PM
I would say you have two freshmen (the Zachs) coming in who are really good 3 pt shooters. I'm more concerned about the basketball IQ levels coming in because if we lack that the team will be in trouble.

Yeah, I think three freshmen will get minutes next season, both Zack's and Killian. As for the depth chart it's a complete mystery. Apparently speculating about transfers is a big no-no so I will leave that alone. Next years team is going to be such a Mistry for the next several months, but it should make for some interesting off-season discussions.

thespywhozaggedme
03-25-2016, 10:01 PM
I would say you have two freshmen (the Zachs) coming in who are really good 3 pt shooters. I'm more concerned about the basketball IQ levels coming in because if we lack that the team will be in trouble.

Are both Zacks good three-point shooters? I didn't know that. That's good to know. Do you have the stats from their senior season?

basketballzag
03-25-2016, 10:09 PM
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2015/07/26/four-star-class-of-2016-guard-zach-norvell-scores-53-points-drops-14-3-pointers-in-las-vegas-video/

Zach Norvell hits 14 3 pters

thespywhozaggedme
03-25-2016, 10:11 PM
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2015/07/26/four-star-class-of-2016-guard-zach-norvell-scores-53-points-drops-14-3-pointers-in-las-vegas-video/

Zach Norvell hits 14 3 pters
In one game? That's nuts. Do you know his percentage for the season? Thanks for that btw.

HenneZag
03-25-2016, 10:15 PM
I would say you have two freshmen (the Zachs) coming in who are really good 3 pt shooters. I'm more concerned about the basketball IQ levels coming in because if we lack that the team will be in trouble.

Both the Zachs have exceptional BB IQ.

cggonzaga
03-25-2016, 10:23 PM
Depth will not be an issue next year even if Sabonis doesn't come back.

tyra
03-25-2016, 10:33 PM
If Sabonis goes out, we lose four of our five starters. That said, we have a lot of talent coming in, some experienced and some not. There is the issue of outside shooting but I think the bigger issue is coaching. That's not a rap on Mark at all; I just think it's a challenge -- how to create a cohesive team with this many new players. It's like starting almost from scratch. But I believe Mark can and will do it.

zagsfanforlife
03-25-2016, 10:35 PM
F it... im still putting $100 on the zags next year and day dreaming about what I will do with my 10k when we win it all.

WallaWallaZag
03-26-2016, 12:49 AM
If Sabonis goes out, we lose four of our five starters. That said, we have a lot of talent coming in, some experienced and some not. There is the issue of outside shooting but I think the bigger issue is coaching. That's not a rap on Mark at all; I just think it's a challenge -- how to create a cohesive team with this many new players. It's like starting almost from scratch. But I believe Mark can and will do it.

since karno got hurt so early, this year was also 4/5 basically as wiltjer was the lone starter returning...and two of the projected starters for next year are both redshirt juniors who spent the whole year in the zag system, so their learning curve should be short.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 05:54 AM
Both the Zachs have exceptional BB IQ.

Excellent news

GoZags
03-26-2016, 06:59 AM
Are both Zacks good three-point shooters? I didn't know that. That's good to know. Do you have the stats from their senior season?

Appears you "may" have missed this from a week and a half ago.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?53317-Zach-Collins-is-a-Zag!!!&p=1191702#post1191702

sheps001
03-26-2016, 07:02 AM
Don't forget Alberts, Melson, Perkins will have had a full year behind them including the WCC tournament and 3 NCAA games!. This experience is absolutely invaluable and also sets expectations very high again. I'm sure the loss to Syracuse and the desire to avenge it will burn within them for the entire next. This also applies to all the returnees. Many many good players don't get this experience in their entire careers and they will have seen it as Freshmen and Sophomores.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 07:13 AM
Appears you "may" have missed this from a week and a half ago.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?53317-Zach-Collins-is-a-Zag!!!&p=1191702#post1191702

I forgot all about that, that is awesome news; a true stretch four

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 07:14 AM
Don't forget Alberts, Melson, Perkins will have had a full year behind them including the WCC tournament and 3 NCAA games!. This experience is absolutely invaluable and also sets expectations very high again. I'm sure the loss to Syracuse and the desire to avenge it will burn within them for the entire next. This also applies to all the returnees. Many many good players don't get this experience in their entire careers and they will have seen it as Freshmen and Sophomores.
Alberts barely got off the bench the last month; read into that whatever you'd like

MileHigh
03-26-2016, 07:16 AM
From what I have heard, if DS is projected top 15 or better he will leave. I expect him to leave.

The Karno situation is complicated. If his rehab goes much faster than expected, and he can play close to 100% by the summer he will likely go pro. If he needs more time to rehab then he will stay at Gonzaga through next season to take advantage of the physical therepy/training resources which are much better than if he were to go back to Poland and work out on his own. So a drawn out, but ultimately successful rehab for Karno would be best scenerio for him to stay in college next year.

Assuming Karno stays and DS goes, I think you have a starting line-up of JP, NWG, SM, JWII, and Karno. Off the bench you have Edwards and Collins as bigs and Norvell and Alberts as perimeter guys. I predict NWG will be leading scorer next year, but it will be more balanced with NWG, JP, SM and Karno (finger crossed on health) all averaging between 10 and 16 points a game.

Coach Crazy
03-26-2016, 07:31 AM
From what I have heard, if DS is projected top 15 or better he will leave. I expect him to leave.

The Karno situation is complicated. If his rehab goes much faster than expected, and he can play close to 100% by the summer he will likely go pro. If he needs more time to rehab then he will stay at Gonzaga through next season to take advantage of the physical therepy/training resources which are much better than if he were to go back to Poland and work out on his own. So a drawn out, but ultimately successful rehab for Karno would be best scenerio for him to stay in college next year.

Assuming Karno stays and DS goes, I think you have a starting line-up of JP, NWG, SM, JWII, and Karno. Off the bench you have Edwards and Collins as bigs and Zorvell Alberts as perimeter guys. I predict NWG will be leading scorer next year, but it will be more balanced with NWG, JP, and Karno (finger crossed on health) all averaging between 12 and 16 points a game.

If Zack is given a chance to win the starting job, he'll beat out Silas. And not that you were placing Edwards ahead of Zach, but Collins will be the first big off the bench. If Killian is healthy and puts on enough weight, he'll get time at 3 and 4, but still a chance he redshirt's. I don't see Karno being ready to turn pro this year. He'll be back. Alberts will need a strong summer and productive fall to stay in the rotation.

I have vacillated on Domas' situation. After the March he had, I could see him wanting to come back and see if this program can make a Final Four run. BUT with the stats he put up against even the 23, I just see pro scouts really wanting the chance to put this guy on their draft boards, higher than lower.

MileHigh
03-26-2016, 07:38 AM
If Zack is given a chance to win the starting job, he'll beat out Silas. And not that you were placing Edwards ahead of Zach, but Collins will be the first big off the bench. If Killian is healthy and puts on enough weight, he'll get time at 3 and 4, but still a chance he redshirt's. I don't see Karno being ready to turn pro this year. He'll be back. Alberts will need a strong summer and productive fall to stay in the rotation.

I have vacillated on Domas' situation. After the March he had, I could see him wanting to come back and see if this program can make a Final Four run. BUT with the stats he put up against even the 23, I just see pro scouts really wanting the chance to put this guy on their draft boards, higher than lower.

Melson is, by far, the best perimeter defender coming back. If Norvell is like most HS kids he will come in pretty clueless on how to defend at a high d1 level and it will take him a while to figure out how to defend elite 2 guards without fouling

Melson will start.....I guarantee it. Few values defense

ZAG 4 LIFE
03-26-2016, 08:13 AM
Both the Zachs have exceptional BB IQ.

Correct... And both Zachs are "team first" guys... And winners
Collins will need to add good weight fast, but he is also the rim protector
This team never had after we lost Karnowski.
Norvell is good shooter, handles it well, and is a tough kid.
These guys will be fan favorites and very good players here.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 09:10 AM
I just think that a Perk, NWG and Melson threesome is really small; much smaller than Perk, EMac and Drangs
Melson is, by far, the best perimeter defender coming back. If Norvell is like most HS kids he will come in pretty clueless on how to defend at a high d1 level and it will take him a while to figure out how to defend elite 2 guards without fouling

Melson will start.....I guarantee it. Few values defense

MileHigh
03-26-2016, 09:21 AM
I just think that a Perk, NWG and Melson threesome is really small; much smaller than Perk, EMac and Drangs

yea...Could be an issue against teams that have big/long 2's and 3's.

seacatfan
03-26-2016, 09:27 AM
I just think that a Perk, NWG and Melson threesome is really small; much smaller than Perk, EMac and Drangs

Don't see the problem. Melson is similar size to McClellan, NWG is a couple inches shorter than Dranginis. Maybe McClellan and Dranginis had long arms, that could be a bit of a factor. Regardless it's a much bigger trio than Pangos, Bell and Wesley, and that worked out okay. Really small is a ridiculous description for next year's trio.

Plus it will take almost nothing for Norvell to be a bigger contributor than Alberts next year, and he's got prototype size for a 2 guard, right? And a possibility of Tillie or Williams sliding to the 3 some would make a plenty big lineup.

Bogozags
03-26-2016, 09:35 AM
If Zack is given a chance to win the starting job, he'll beat out Silas. And not that you were placing Edwards ahead of Zach, but Collins will be the first big off the bench. If Killian is healthy and puts on enough weight, he'll get time at 3 and 4, but still a chance he redshirt's. I don't see Karno being ready to turn pro this year. He'll be back. Alberts will need a strong summer and productive fall to stay in the rotation.

I have vacillated on Domas' situation. After the March he had, I could see him wanting to come back and see if this program can make a Final Four run. BUT with the stats he put up against even the 23, I just see pro scouts really wanting the chance to put this guy on their draft boards, higher than lower.

Coach,
I think the likely hood of Zach starting above Melson won't happen. There are very few true freshman that can make the adjustment to D1 defence. On offence, I see him learning and executing but his defence is going to determine the amount of playing time he gets. It took Melson half the season and Perkins nearly 3/4s of the season to quit defending with their hands.

I do agree that Alberts will definitely need to improve over the summer after all, he was still a freshman be it a redshirt-freshman.

At the present time, I think Zach could be the first front court player off the bench BUT that will be determined by Edwards and how hard he works this summer too. Zach will also have to work his rear off too and as I said weeks ago, we will see how his defence is when he plays in the McD's game next week. I know there isn't much defence played BUT this is his "turn" to shine and show his talents to the "world!"

I have been saying all along that Domantas WILL be back for his junior year, because: (1) he will try to make his Olympic Team and (2) he really enjoys college life and (3) money isn't an issue. I think he will be better served playing next year than sitting on the bench of an NBA team. This is my opinion and there are many that believe differently - I respect those opinions no matter how wrong they are...:D

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 09:45 AM
Don't see the problem. Melson is similar size to McClellan, NWG is a couple inches shorter than Dranginis. Maybe McClellan and Dranginis had long arms, that could be a bit of a factor. Regardless it's a much bigger trio than Pangos, Bell and Wesley, and that worked out okay. Really small is a ridiculous description for next year's trio.

Plus it will take almost nothing for Norvell to be a bigger contributor than Alberts next year, and he's got prototype size for a 2 guard, right? And a possibility of Tillie or Williams sliding to the 3 some would make a plenty big lineup.

How So? Pangos and Bell are both taller than NWG and Perk, but ZN is taller than all, with the exception of maybe Drangs.

gonzagabasketball
03-26-2016, 09:49 AM
How So? Pangos and Bell are both taller than NWG and Perk, but ZN is taller than all, with the exception of maybe Drangs.

I.....uh, wtf are you talking about?

Zags11
03-26-2016, 10:04 AM
I.....uh, wtf are you talking about?

Lol. Yea.

seacatfan
03-26-2016, 10:13 AM
How So? Pangos and Bell are both taller than NWG and Perk, but ZN is taller than all, with the exception of maybe Drangs.

NWG and Perkins are both 6-3. You're way off base with this one.

MileHigh
03-26-2016, 10:15 AM
Pangos 5-11, Bell 6-2, Wesley 6-5

PERK 6-3, NWG 6-3, Melson 6-4

No real difference height wise from 2015 team to 2017 team

doctorzag
03-26-2016, 11:12 AM
Pangos 5-11, Bell 6-2, Wesley 6-5

PERK 6-3, NWG 6-3, Melson 6-4

No real difference height wise from 2015 team to 2017 team
Melson may be listed at 6-4 but have you actually ever seen a game. Lucky if he reaches 6 foot

Coach Crazy
03-26-2016, 11:15 AM
Coach,
I think the likely hood of Zach starting above Melson won't happen. There are very few true freshman that can make the adjustment to D1 defence. On offence, I see him learning and executing but his defence is going to determine the amount of playing time he gets. It took Melson half the season and Perkins nearly 3/4s of the season to quit defending with their hands.

I do agree that Alberts will definitely need to improve over the summer after all, he was still a freshman be it a redshirt-freshman.

At the present time, I think Zach could be the first front court player off the bench BUT that will be determined by Edwards and how hard he works this summer too. Zach will also have to work his rear off too and as I said weeks ago, we will see how his defence is when he plays in the McD's game next week. I know there isn't much defence played BUT this is his "turn" to shine and show his talents to the "world!"

I have been saying all along that Domantas WILL be back for his junior year, because: (1) he will try to make his Olympic Team and (2) he really enjoys college life and (3) money isn't an issue. I think he will be better served playing next year than sitting on the bench of an NBA team. This is my opinion and there are many that believe differently - I respect those opinions no matter how wrong they are...:D

You're talking about playing Melson at the 3. To me that is a non-starter considering the depth and length we will have on this team.

Zach's play will not be dictated by a Center that only got 10 minutes a game as *back up center* because Shem was out. Zach is a McD's All-American who is more skilled than Ryan, more physically developed than Ryan, faster than Ryan, and more athletic than Ryan. This idea that an underclassmen is at a disadvantage *because* he is an underclassmen is something that has been debunked, already. JP and Silas struggled because they were inherently different players than the system they were walking into.

As far as Domas, I just don't see how he stays, at this point. Always a chance he will, but he did something in the tournament that now makes him a candidate for a lottery pick. I think people on this board are giving far too much credence to the idea that the "college experience" has a stronger pull being taken that high. For a player like Domas, he'd have to come in and play a completely different game (mid range and 3's) while still getting rebounds in order to make that stock go significantly higher. If he came in and didn't, it would actually hurt his stock. Everything is aligning for him to leave. I have been on both sides of the fence on this one.

Coach Crazy
03-26-2016, 11:16 AM
Pangos 5-11, Bell 6-2, Wesley 6-5

PERK 6-3, NWG 6-3, Melson 6-4

No real difference height wise from 2015 team to 2017 team

Melson ain't no 6'4"...

MileHigh
03-26-2016, 11:16 AM
Melson may be listed at 6-4 but have you actually ever seen a game. Lucky if he reaches 6 foot

Haha.......yes, I have seen a game. i have also spent time with SM and talked with him. He is a legit 6-4. He is about an inch taller than JP and JP is 6-3.

Ezag
03-26-2016, 12:37 PM
Melson needs to step it up next season or he will ride the pine

jazzdelmar
03-26-2016, 12:44 PM
Melson needs to step it up next season or he will ride the pine

Agree, EZ, at whatever height he needs lotta work

Zags11
03-26-2016, 02:10 PM
Pangos 5-11, Bell 6-2, Wesley 6-5

PERK 6-3, NWG 6-3, Melson 6-4

No real difference height wise from 2015 team to 2017 team

Bell isn't 6'2 in person. I am 6'0 perfectly and he matched up with me. Let's say 6'0-6'0.5

MileHigh
03-26-2016, 03:19 PM
Bell isn't 6'2 in person. I am 6'0 perfectly and he matched up with me. Let's say 6'0-6'0.5

Basketball roster heights are often done arbitrarily, as in "Gary, what is your height"? or done by measuring players in their sneakers (adds and inch to an inch and a half)

The best way to judge height is exactly the way you did, walk up next to them and size them up

ZaggyDog
03-26-2016, 03:21 PM
jmho, but I am excited for next season because we will have (barring transfers) a larger stable of high level players to work with during practices. This year they weren't able to field a practice squad with enough physical size and skill (even with the two red-shirts). The team spends way more time practicing than playing games, I think Few said 122 practices this last season. If you spend all this time battling against equally gifted team mates and you have enough spread to hit all the different positions, then it has to result in a huge increase in ability. I haven't broken down the players by position yet, but think we will have close to 2 full 5-man Div 1 rotations to work with. This year it was probably difficult to do this with Karno out and both JP and WG learning the system.

MontanaCoyote
03-26-2016, 04:32 PM
jmho, but I am excited for next season because we will have (barring transfers) a larger stable of high level players to work with during practices. This year they weren't able to field a practice squad with enough physical size and skill (even with the two red-shirts). The team spends way more time practicing than playing games, I think Few said 122 practices this last season. If you spend all this time battling against equally gifted team mates and you have enough spread to hit all the different positions, then it has to result in a huge increase in ability. I haven't broken down the players by position yet, but think we will have close to 2 full 5-man Div 1 rotations to work with. This year it was probably difficult to do this with Karno out and both JP and WG learning the system.

"2 full 5-man Div 1 rotations to work with". Excellent point for practices AND games. Top quality players who, as they say,
"Could be starting on a lot of teams," coming off the bench would/will be a big plus. On top of that, every player we already have WILL get even better. But man, seems like an eternity before it all starts again!

ballerstatus
03-26-2016, 04:43 PM
I would debate that Few "values" defense. While the zags had some good defensive games, last night wasn't one of them overall. Melson is a decent player, but even with his college experience I can see Norvell beating him out just because of his height and offensive skill, which is really what Few values.

ZagLawGrad
03-26-2016, 04:54 PM
Gonzaga men’s basketball looks ahead after year of growing pains, big gains

....The Polish big man said last week that he’s planning to apply to the NCAA for a medical waiver that would give him an extra year of eligibility, but regardless of whether his waiver is approved, he’s unsure if he’ll return for one more year at Gonzaga.

“I haven’t decided yet,” said Karnowski, who’s only a few credits shy of his degree in sports management. “It’s all about the follow-ups, and the doctors and how I respond. I want to see my options. Will I be able to be jumping and going full speed?

“If I only have a couple more years (to play basketball) I will probably go try and play pro.”

Karnowski said he’ll wait to see how two follow-up appointments in April and June go with his doctors before he makes a final decision.


http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/gonzaga-bulldogs/gonzaga-mens-basketball-looks-ahead-after-year-of-growing-pains-big-gains/

CDC84
03-26-2016, 05:02 PM
I still think Few is going to dip into the graduate transfer market for a scoring small forward.....especially if Hachimura becomes a 2017 player. I also wouldn't sleep on Zach Norvell. Yeah I know he is a freshman, but he's a vocal leader, Chicago-tough, and has a deadly long rang jumper. High basketball IQ guy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see NWG take over much of the ball handling duties next season and for Perkins to become a playmaking combo guard. Kind of like how Stepp and Dickau operated. I think Josh would be an excellent two guard, but he wouldn't be a conventional two guard. He could play PG when NWG needs rest, and the two could share the ball and play make for themselves and others. I think those two are going to be a force to be reckoned with next season, and that they will work well as a tandem.

The frontcourt is going to be fantastic no matter what. I still think if he can play again, we will see Karno take his medical redshirt and play for GU next season. He still has a ton of rehab to do, and it just makes sense for him to continue it in Spokane. JWIII is going to be the best weak side shot blocker GU has had since Turiaf. He doesn't have Wiltjer's shooting touch (well, who does really?), but he is a major upgrade defensively and athletically and is offensively skilled in his own right. Zach Collins will be ready by day one. That's why you bring in a McDonald's AA. And if Sabonis comes back (w/ Karno), Gonzaga is going to have one of the most dominant frontlines college basketball has seen in years. I mean, it's crazy to think that Collins, a McDonald's AA, could be a fourth option down low.

Zags11
03-26-2016, 05:10 PM
Basketball roster heights are often done arbitrarily, as in "Gary, what is your height"? or done by measuring players in their sneakers (adds and inch to an inch and a half)

The best way to judge height is exactly the way you did, walk up next to them and size them up

Yea that was during senior year by the dorms. He was a nice quiet guy.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 05:12 PM
Is there a list of graduate transfers anywhere?
I still think Few is going to dip into the graduate transfer market for a scoring small forward.....especially if Hachimura becomes a 2017 player. I also wouldn't sleep on Zach Norvell. Yeah I know he is a freshman, but he's a vocal leader, Chicago-tough, and has a deadly long rang jumper. High basketball IQ guy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see NWG take over much of the ball handling duties next season and for Perkins to become a playmaking combo guard. Kind of like how Stepp and Dickau operated. I think Josh would be an excellent two guard, but he wouldn't be a conventional two guard. He could play PG when NWG needs rest, and the two could share the ball and play make for themselves and others. I think those two are going to be a force to be reckoned with next season, and that they will work well as a tandem.

The frontcourt is going to be fantastic no matter what. I still think if he can play again, we will see Karno take his medical redshirt and play for GU next season. He still has a ton of rehab to do, and it just makes sense for him to continue it in Spokane. JWIII is going to be the best weak side shot blocker GU has had since Turiaf. He doesn't have Wiltjer's shooting touch (well, who does really?), but he is a major upgrade defensively and athletically and is offensively skilled in his own right. Zach Collins will be ready by day one. That's why you bring in a McDonald's AA. And if Sabonis comes back (w/ Karno), Gonzaga is going to have one of the most dominant frontlines college basketball has seen in years. I mean, it's crazy to think that Collins, a McDonald's AA, could be a fourth option down low.

Reborn
03-26-2016, 05:17 PM
Sorry but I've forgotten. Who is JWIII. Is he a transfer?

CDC84
03-26-2016, 05:18 PM
The grad transfer names tend to start trickling out as the spring semester comes to a close. And there will be more after that. Some guys like Wesley had to complete summer school work in order to complete the transfer.

The question I have is this: how close to graduation is SCU's Jared Brownridge? With the coaching change and SCU's losing ways, he may want to look for other opportunities if he gets a chance. Just speculation on my part.

CDC84
03-26-2016, 05:18 PM
Sorry but I've forgotten. Who is JWIII. Is he a transfer?

Jonathan Williams III - power forward transfer from Mizzou. Was a top 50 player coming out of HS.

cggonzaga
03-26-2016, 05:35 PM
I still think Few is going to dip into the graduate transfer market for a scoring small forward.....especially if Hachimura becomes a 2017 player. I also wouldn't sleep on Zach Norvell. Yeah I know he is a freshman, but he's a vocal leader, Chicago-tough, and has a deadly long rang jumper. High basketball IQ guy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see NWG take over much of the ball handling duties next season and for Perkins to become a playmaking combo guard. Kind of like how Stepp and Dickau operated. I think Josh would be an excellent two guard, but he wouldn't be a conventional two guard. He could play PG when NWG needs rest, and the two could share the ball and play make for themselves and others. I think those two are going to be a force to be reckoned with next season, and that they will work well as a tandem.

The frontcourt is going to be fantastic no matter what. I still think if he can play again, we will see Karno take his medical redshirt and play for GU next season. He still has a ton of rehab to do, and it just makes sense for him to continue it in Spokane. JWIII is going to be the best weak side shot blocker GU has had since Turiaf. He doesn't have Wiltjer's shooting touch (well, who does really?), but he is a major upgrade defensively and athletically and is offensively skilled in his own right. Zach Collins will be ready by day one. That's why you bring in a McDonald's AA. And if Sabonis comes back (w/ Karno), Gonzaga is going to have one of the most dominant frontlines college basketball has seen in years. I mean, it's crazy to think that Collins, a McDonald's AA, could be a fourth option down low.

I agree with almost all of this CDC. I do see Perkins as the primary ballhandler though many here seem to think otherwise. Perkins didn't come here to play the 2 guard nor did Few recruit him to do so. Perkins needs to work on his handles. There's no reason his handles shouldn't be Pangos tight. I also think he needs to shoot more and become more of a scoring point guard. I do love having Goss with him in the backcourt however. I think it becomes a 60/40 split between the 2 handling primary ballhandling. I think between those 2 guys you have 12-15ppg scorers in the backcourt (if Sabonis doesn't come back).

Athletically and defensively I think we become even better next season. I think we decline a bit on the perimeter but overall will be better. If Karno comes back the rim will be completely protected between him, Collins and Williams III. Tillie, Williams III and Jones could give us some unbelievable length on the wing as well as down low.

Offensively....wow! If Sabonis and Karno came back we could literally have 6-7 guys average double figures.

Sabonis 17ppg
Williams Goss 15ppg
Perkins 12ppg
Karno 11ppg
Williams III 10ppg
Collins 10ppg
Melson 10ppg

For those that are going to question the 85ppg between these players, please keep in mind it doesn't mean they score these amounts in every game.

Those that don't believe Melson is 6'3"-6'4" I'm not sure what you're seeing? I think he grew during the year and wouldn't be shocked if he was closer to 6'4"-6'5". Don't sleep on Melson next year. He'll be a junior and I think over the past couple months of the season he was terrific and started figuring things out. He just needs to build on his confidence and continue working on his game. He could truly be an X factor next season offensively, defensively and athletically.

cggonzaga
03-26-2016, 05:38 PM
The question I have is this: how close to graduation is SCU's Jared Brownridge? With the coaching change and SCU's losing ways, he may want to look for other opportunities if he gets a chance. Just speculation on my part.

That would be awesome CDC. I do think we should pull out all the stops next season. If that means bringing in a transfer then so be it. Next year could/should be truly special.

Reborn
03-26-2016, 05:47 PM
Jonathan Williams III - power forward transfer from Mizzou. Was a top 50 player coming out of HS.

Thanks! Appreciate it. If my memories is right, he's pretty good.

BobZag
03-26-2016, 06:17 PM
If Norvell made 14 threes in one game, even if against matador defense, he'll have a chance at PT.

Didn't NWG win the 3-point shooting contest at Micky D's AA game?

zagsfanforlife
03-26-2016, 06:25 PM
If Norvell made 14 threes in one game, even if against matador defense, he'll have a chance at PT.

Didn't NWG win the 3-point shooting contest at Micky D's AA game?

Bob--- not sure if things have changed, and if so, sorry, but from what I understood you were pretty well connected to the team. Have you heard either way what Sabonis is thinking these days?

doctorzag
03-26-2016, 06:39 PM
Name I heard mentioned that Zags were looking at, Braian Angola-Rodas. No offer yet but has offers from Utah and Oregon. Plays just down the road at NIC. Was visiting Texas Tech today.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 09:15 PM
Can't he also play the 3? If Domas does the unthinkable and comes back could you imagine a frontline of Shem, Domas and JWIII? Holy Cow, that would be the best 3, 4 and 5 in the country, bar none.
Jonathan Williams III - power forward transfer from Mizzou. Was a top 50 player coming out of HS.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 09:16 PM
Brownridge is a gifted scorer, but again, very small in stature.
The grad transfer names tend to start trickling out as the spring semester comes to a close. And there will be more after that. Some guys like Wesley had to complete summer school work in order to complete the transfer.

The question I have is this: how close to graduation is SCU's Jared Brownridge? With the coaching change and SCU's losing ways, he may want to look for other opportunities if he gets a chance. Just speculation on my part.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 09:19 PM
I think he shot 23% from 3 his last season at UDub, that's, uh.........not good.
If Norvell made 14 threes in one game, even if against matador defense, he'll have a chance at PT.

Didn't NWG win the 3-point shooting contest at Micky D's AA game?

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 09:20 PM
Name I heard mentioned that Zags were looking at, Braian Angola-Rodas. No offer yet but has offers from Utah and Oregon. Plays just down the road at NIC. Was visiting Texas Tech today.
I thought Leon offered him at Boise, no?

gonzagafan62
03-26-2016, 09:22 PM
I think he shot 23% from 3 his last season at UDub, that's, uh.........not good.

I'll bet that his 3pt shooting is in the low 30s next year ... Somewhere between 32-34% next year.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 09:29 PM
I hope it improves from what it was, otherwise, defenses will be sagging off of our guards, daring them to shoot.
I'll bet that his 3pt shooting is in the low 30s next year ... Somewhere between 32-34% next year.

Reborn
03-26-2016, 09:47 PM
If Norvell made 14 threes in one game, even if against matador defense, he'll have a chance at PT.

Didn't NWG win the 3-point shooting contest at Micky D's AA game?

I didn't know he was a McDonald's All-American. Wow!!! Will we have room for two of them on our team?

I did some research on JWIII. I saw where he was ranked 40th in the country coming out of HS. Wow!!!

Go Zags!!!

gonzagafan62
03-26-2016, 09:54 PM
I hope it improves from what it was, otherwise, defenses will be sagging off of our guards, daring them to shoot.

I don't see why he doesn't. This is Mark fews offense not Romar.

Reborn
03-26-2016, 10:00 PM
Here is my take on next season. Karno will be back and so will Sabonis. They both have lots to learn, and both love Gonzaga, imo. The loss to Syracuse last night hurt. I know it hurt me a lot, and you can multiply that by 100 and that's how much in hurt them (the players). I totally believe that both will be back to rectify that loss. I am looking forward to it already.

Can you imagine a front court of Karno, Sabonis, Collins, JWIII and Edwards. Sabonis will take Wiltjer's place. He's not going to be the shooter (ever) that Kyle is, but he'll find a way to average 20 next year. His outside shot will improve immensely, and his dribbling and passing skills are already pretty good. From what I hear Collins is a great outside shooter, so maybe he'll be getting playing time at the 4. JWIII will certain be a terrific backup player.

I am one who believes in Melson. He is a great defender, and could be a very good outside shooter. Let's hope so. He has shown signs that's for sure. As he matures we will see some really good offense from him. Norvell will certainly find playing time too. Few will be back to having a rotation with 8 players, which is what he likes I think.

I see where you wanted this discussion to be about our thoughts in case Sabonis didn't return. I think he will; so I'm counting him as a big part of next year.


Go Zags!!!

gonzagafan62
03-26-2016, 10:03 PM
Here is my take on next season. Karno will be back and so will Sabonis. They both have lots to learn, and both love Gonzaga, imo. The loss to Syracuse last night hurt. I know it hurt me a lot, and you can multiply that by 100 and that's how much in hurt them (the players). I totally believe that both will be back to rectify that loss. I am looking forward to it already.

Can you imagine a front court of Karno, Sabonis, Collins, JWIII and Edwards. Sabonis will take Wiltjer's place. He's not going to be the shooter (ever) that Kyle is, but he'll find a way to average 20 next year. His outside shot will improve immensely, and his dribbling and passing skills are already pretty good. From what I hear Collins is a great outside shooter, so maybe he'll be getting playing time at the 4. JWIII will certain be a terrific backup player.

I am one who believes in Melson. He is a great defender, and could be a very good outside shooter. Let's hope so. He has shown signs that's for sure. As he matures we will see some really good offense from him. Norvell will certainly find playing time too. Few will be back to having a rotation with 8 players, which is what he likes I think.

Go Zags!!!

I am also a believer in Melson. If we are going to do well next season he is going to have to play well.

maynard g krebs
03-26-2016, 10:08 PM
I think he shot 23% from 3 his last season at UDub, that's, uh.........not good.

26%, 22/86. But he shot 36% his fr year. And shot 49% for the U19 team in intl competition, as well as winning the 3 pt contest at McD.

Thing is, sometimes stats are misleading. He was on a bad team at UW; how many of those shots were out of rhythm/pressured/late in the clock, the result of having to take a bad shot because of playing in a bad offense? I'd bet he's at least mid-30's next yr, maybe better.

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 10:16 PM
Rumor is Justin Jackson a five star, 6'6 wing outta Finley Prep is about to decommit from UNLV. He's also a Canadian. NWG went to Findlay Prep. We gotta make this happen!

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 10:18 PM
What does Sabonis have left to learn? He literally does everything great and is a projected lottery pick. Selfishly I want him
Back but logically, I don't expect it.
Here is my take on next season. Karno will be back and so will Sabonis. They both have lots to learn, and both love Gonzaga, imo. The loss to Syracuse last night hurt. I know it hurt me a lot, and you can multiply that by 100 and that's how much in hurt them (the players). I totally believe that both will be back to rectify that loss. I am looking forward to it already.

Can you imagine a front court of Karno, Sabonis, Collins, JWIII and Edwards. Sabonis will take Wiltjer's place. He's not going to be the shooter (ever) that Kyle is, but he'll find a way to average 20 next year. His outside shot will improve immensely, and his dribbling and passing skills are already pretty good. From what I hear Collins is a great outside shooter, so maybe he'll be getting playing time at the 4. JWIII will certain be a terrific backup player.

I am one who believes in Melson. He is a great defender, and could be a very good outside shooter. Let's hope so. He has shown signs that's for sure. As he matures we will see some really good offense from him. Norvell will certainly find playing time too. Few will be back to having a rotation with 8 players, which is what he likes I think.

I see where you wanted this discussion to be about our thoughts in case Sabonis didn't return. I think he will; so I'm counting him as a big part of next year.


Go Zags!!!

thespywhozaggedme
03-26-2016, 10:20 PM
That would be awesome
26%, 22/86. But he shot 36% his fr year. And shot 49% for the U19 team in intl competition, as well as winning the 3 pt contest at McD.

Thing is, sometimes stats are misleading. He was on a bad team at UW; how many of those shots were out of rhythm/pressured/late in the clock, the result of having to take a bad shot because of playing in a bad offense? I'd bet he's at least mid-30's next yr, maybe better.

hooter73
03-27-2016, 12:23 AM
I think he shot 23% from 3 his last season at UDub, that's, uh.........not good.

Pretty sure thats still better than other point guards we've started in years past http://www.ak47.net/images/smilies/anim_peep.gif

NO matter who comes and who goes, I hope at some point we wont hear "play the big 3 together, Harris at the 3" type stuff anymore. Find that solid rotation and fricken Kentucky platoon it if you have to but we cant play all stars all together all the time. There has to be a balance or else its upheaval like we saw at the start of the year. JW3 will be great. He has only improved since getting here. Collins and Norvell will carve out their time, especially if the others in their positions struggle. Like this years team found, next year will be about cohesiveness, either finding it or the lack there of.

WallaWallaZag
03-27-2016, 04:21 AM
If Norvell made 14 threes in one game, even if against matador defense, he'll have a chance at PT.

Didn't NWG win the 3-point shooting contest at Micky D's AA game?

zach collins just won a 3-point contest at some sort of all-star game...

BobZag
03-27-2016, 09:39 AM
Bob--- not sure if things have changed, and if so, sorry, but from what I understood you were pretty well connected to the team. Have you heard either way what Sabonis is thinking these days?

Always heard he was returning, but that was before he blew up in March and wasn't that high on mock drafts.

Two biggest Qs for me: Will Sabonis return? Will Karno return at 100%? Nobody really knows, so we wait and see.

BobZag
03-27-2016, 09:40 AM
zach collins just won a 3-point contest at some sort of all-star game...

Awesome.

hooter73
03-27-2016, 10:57 AM
honestly I think Bob just said something that most people arent quite considering, its not if Shem returns, its if he does, will it be at 100%.

Mantua
03-27-2016, 11:40 AM
NWG and Perkins are both 6-3. You're way off base with this one.

NWG has a 6'6" wingspan.

I looked for but cannot find JW3's wingspan.

I do agree that having the 3 bigs argument is silly, but what I learned from watching the last game is length and defense are key at the elite level. We needed more length under the basket. If Collins is standing on the arc while another big is getting clobbered trying to get a basket or a rebound, we will keep getting the same disappointing results. Maybe we don't don't need three big men on the court at the same time. We need three long men on the court for offensive rebounding.

Goshzagit
03-27-2016, 12:01 PM
keep in mind, NWG is a terrific talent, yet he only practiced WITH the team for 2 months, even a little less, this season.

He was injured with foot/ankle issue and out for 2 months from October-December. Returned to practice in December, until late January, when he had foot surgery from same issue. Still rehabbing.

Hasn't played or practiced fully since.

A good enough talent to get going, but will only have 1 summer to get acclimated and pre-season to learn all the offense and team chemistry.

Not to mention, we add 5 incoming freshman.

It could take some time, even for NWG to get the hang of it.

It was unfortunate, injuries derailed 90% of his RS season -- he's still in the film room, weight room, locker room, but has barely spent time on the court.

Not sure if many realize he has barely played, at all, this year.

JWIII, on the other hand, hasn't missed a practice or a beat. Really hearing great things about him. Not an elite offensive player, but battles neck-and-neck on the boards w/Domas, and his defense is outstanding. Tough kid, active around the hoop, can alley-oop with ease, put-backs, rebounder, solid shooter, but not overly accurate. Has an odd side-arm shot, which can be streaky, unlike Sabonis, who has perfect release/form.

JWIII has not been playing the (3) or "wing" in practice, but who knows the plan for next season. I'm sure it depends on Sabonis declaration.

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2016, 12:34 PM
Thanks for the insider report
keep in mind, NWG is a terrific talent, yet he only practiced WITH the team for 2 months, even a little less, this season.

He was injured with foot/ankle issue and out for 2 months from October-December. Returned to practice in December, until late January, when he had foot surgery from same issue. Still rehabbing.

Hasn't played or practiced fully since.

A good enough talent to get going, but will only have 1 summer to get acclimated and pre-season to learn all the offense and team chemistry.

Not to mention, we add 5 incoming freshman.

It could take some time, even for NWG to get the hang of it.

It was unfortunate, injuries derailed 90% of his RS season -- he's still in the film room, weight room, locker room, but has barely spent time on the court.

Not sure if many realize he has barely played, at all, this year.

JWIII, on the other hand, hasn't missed a practice or a beat. Really hearing great things about him. Not an elite offensive player, but battles neck-and-neck on the boards w/Domas, and his defense is outstanding. Tough kid, active around the hoop, can alley-oop with ease, put-backs, rebounder, solid shooter, but not overly accurate. Has an odd side-arm shot, which can be streaky, unlike Sabonis, who has perfect release/form.

JWIII has not been playing the (3) or "wing" in practice, but who knows the plan for next season. I'm sure it depends on Sabonis declaration.

VinnyZag
03-27-2016, 12:43 PM
I don't understand why people think going 6-3, 6-3 and 6-4 in the backcourt is a problem. Very few college teams would be able to exploit a size advantage against that group.

I've been confident about Karnowski returning until I saw this story (http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/gonzaga-bulldogs/gonzaga-mens-basketball-looks-ahead-after-year-of-growing-pains-big-gains/) in the Seattle Time today. It includes this quote from Karnowski:


“I haven’t decided yet,” said Karnowski, who’s only a few credits shy of his degree in sports management. “It’s all about the follow-ups, and the doctors and how I respond. I want to see my options. Will I be able to be jumping and going full speed?

“If I only have a couple more years (to play basketball) I will probably go try and play pro.”

Sounds like his back injury may mean he's only got a few years of high level hoops left, and he may make the entirely reasonable decision to get paid for those years.

seacatfan
03-27-2016, 01:39 PM
I don't understand why people think going 6-3, 6-3 and 6-4 in the backcourt is a problem. Very few college teams would be able to exploit a size advantage against that group.


Exactly. Kansas won a title with a trio of guards smaller than that. UConn has won TWICE with a pair of smallish guards, although maybe a bigger 3. That's all in the last 10 years or less. And Duke last year of course. Guards are really important in the Tourney. The size of the guards is less important than the talent/skills of those guards.

dan71w
03-27-2016, 01:44 PM
bigger is NOT always better.
who woulda thought?

Worthington
03-27-2016, 02:26 PM
Starting line-up without Shem or Domas returning;

Perkins
Williams-Goss
Norvell
JWIII
Collins

Few's offense thrives when there's a knock down three point threat to space the floor so that's why I think Norvell gets the nod over Melson. Norvell is not your typical freshman, this kid is a born leader with a very high basketball IQ. I'm predicting Few is going to fall in love with him right off the bat. Down the stretch of this season we basically had 4 back-court starters when you look at the minute distribution. I see something similar happening next season with Melson playing a huge role off the bench.

If this is the line-up next year, I'm really excited to see how JWIII and Collins play together. Going to be a much different look than Wiltjer and Sabonis, but these guys are bringing a lot of different skills to the table. Collins is ready to contribute from day one. He's going to be All-WCC by his sophomore season. Having said that, I'm salivating at the idea of Sabonis coming back and Collins having a year to play alongside him. I think there's a decent chance Sabonis could be the best player in college basketball next year. Without him this is a very good team next year, with him it's a dominant team.

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2016, 03:34 PM
That's an interesting starting lineup; two true freshman, two transfers and a redshirt sophomore. I'm afraid that team will be really offensively challenged but very good on defense.
Starting line-up without Shem or Domas returning;

Perkins
Williams-Goss
Norvell
JWIII
Collins

Few's offense thrives when there's a knock down three point threat to space the floor so that's why I think Norvell gets the nod over Melson. Norvell is not your typical freshman, this kid is a born leader with a very high basketball IQ. I'm predicting Few is going to fall in love with him right off the bat. Down the stretch of this season we basically had 4 back-court starters when you look at the minute distribution. I see something similar happening next season with Melson playing a huge role off the bench.

If this is the line-up next year, I'm really excited to see how JWIII and Collins play together. Going to be a much different look than Wiltjer and Sabonis, but these guys are bringing a lot of different skills to the table. Collins is ready to contribute from day one. He's going to be All-WCC by his sophomore season. Having said that, I'm salivating at the idea of Sabonis coming back and Collins having a year to play alongside him. I think there's a decent chance Sabonis could be the best player in college basketball next year. Without him this is a very good team next year, with him it's a dominant team.

gonzagafan62
03-27-2016, 03:38 PM
That's an interesting starting lineup; two true freshman, two transfers and a redshirt sophomore. I'm afraid that team will be really offensively challenged but very good on defense.

Offensively challenged ? Lol

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2016, 03:49 PM
Offensively challenged ? Lol

Two true freshmen, a redshirt sophomore that averaged 10ppg and two transfers that combined, didn't average much more than Wiltjer did himself this season. You don't think there will be some offensive challenges with that team?

doctorzag
03-27-2016, 04:26 PM
Two true freshmen, a redshirt sophomore that averaged 10ppg and two transfers that combined, didn't average much more than Wiltjer did himself this season. You don't think there will be some offensive challenges with that team?

Williams and Goss were both leading scorers on their teams before transferring and the two freshman are both highly rated scorers who will contribute immediately. Other pieces will be added if both Karn and Sabonis leave. Graduate transfers and junior college stars will be pursued this offseason. We will be fine.

gonzagafan62
03-27-2016, 04:29 PM
Two true freshmen, a redshirt sophomore that averaged 10ppg and two transfers that combined, didn't average much more than Wiltjer did himself this season. You don't think there will be some offensive challenges with that team?

This is a mark few offense. We will shoot the shots, and make the buckets for the zags to win the game.

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2016, 05:14 PM
This is a mark few offense. We will shoot the shots, and make the buckets for the zags to win the game.

Im not even sure what that means.

gonzagafan62
03-27-2016, 05:17 PM
Im not even sure what that means.

U ever see a mark few offense completely suck? Me neither. We will shoot the shots and score the points and win the games.

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2016, 05:20 PM
U ever see a mark few offense completely suck? Me neither. We will shoot the shots and score the points and win the games.

I hope you're right

Zagceo
03-27-2016, 06:46 PM
Injuries have cost us 2 final fours the last 2 years.........no injuries.

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-28-2016, 12:26 PM
keep in mind, NWG is a terrific talent, yet he only practiced WITH the team for 2 months, even a little less, this season.

He was injured with foot/ankle issue and out for 2 months from October-December. Returned to practice in December, until late January, when he had foot surgery from same issue. Still rehabbing.

Hasn't played or practiced fully since.

A good enough talent to get going, but will only have 1 summer to get acclimated and pre-season to learn all the offense and team chemistry.

Not to mention, we add 5 incoming freshman.

It could take some time, even for NWG to get the hang of it.

It was unfortunate, injuries derailed 90% of his RS season -- he's still in the film room, weight room, locker room, but has barely spent time on the court.

Not sure if many realize he has barely played, at all, this year.

JWIII, on the other hand, hasn't missed a practice or a beat. Really hearing great things about him. Not an elite offensive player, but battles neck-and-neck on the boards w/Domas, and his defense is outstanding. Tough kid, active around the hoop, can alley-oop with ease, put-backs, rebounder, solid shooter, but not overly accurate. Has an odd side-arm shot, which can be streaky, unlike Sabonis, who has perfect release/form.

JWIII has not been playing the (3) or "wing" in practice, but who knows the plan for next season. I'm sure it depends on Sabonis declaration.

Excellent point about NWG. Sounds like a serious, lingering injury to his foot. I sure hope the surgery solved the problem long term.

Sounds like JWIII is a little like Roberson for Syracuse...an athletic, 6'8" forward who may be too slim to play down low in the pros but sure can impact a game at the D-1 level. I doubt Zags experiment with him at the small forward position. I'd rather see Norvell start at the 3 with the redshirt transfer Jones earning minutes as a defensive stopper at the 3 too....or maybe the freshman Frenchman Tillie will earn minutes at the 3/4.

If Melson gets his confidence up offensively and becomes a reliable 3-pt shooter, I really like the idea of seeing Perkins or NWG at the point with Melson and Norvell on the wings knocking down 3's.

Lot of variables for next year. Can't wait to see how things go

zagfan94
04-04-2016, 03:03 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25540830/ncaa-championship-unc-villanova-epitomize-a-changing-of-the-guards

Bodes well for next year :)

zagfan1970
04-04-2016, 03:11 PM
Melson is, by far, the best perimeter defender coming back. If Norvell is like most HS kids he will come in pretty clueless on how to defend at a high d1 level and it will take him a while to figure out how to defend elite 2 guards without fouling

Melson will start.....I guarantee it. Few values defense

If Few values Defense please explain why the WCC DPOY didn't play the last 15 minutes vs Syracuse?

Zagceo
04-04-2016, 03:49 PM
If Few values Defense please explain why the WCC DPOY didn't play the last 15 minutes vs Syracuse?

EMac started 2nd half Cuse came out added to lead. Normal rotation EMac out Melson in and we made a comeback and took the lead……..Few just stayed with what was working.

vandalzag
04-04-2016, 03:56 PM
If Few values Defense please explain why the WCC DPOY didn't play the last 15 minutes vs Syracuse?

:horse::horse::horse:

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2016, 07:27 AM
Well, now that Domas is gone, things are becoming a little clearer.

PG: Perk, NWG
SG: NWG, Melson
SF: (Robert Morris Transfer?), Norvell, Tillie, Alberts
PF: JWIII, Larsen
C: Shem, Zach

Hmmm....being objective, we lose a lot of offensive fire power.

hooter73
04-06-2016, 07:45 AM
NWG and Perkins will be playing at the same time ala Stockton and Pangos. The other shooting guards will be lucky to get 20 min per game.
wing is up for grabs
JWIII and Collins will probably share that forward spot with either Shem or Edwards anchoring. If shems back, great, if not well one big man won't have to learn to live with 5mpg ala Spangler.

The offense is going to have to come from somewhere and im guessing it will again be an inside out type of year where we wish for a wing and hope the guards can knock down shots.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2016, 07:49 AM
NWG and Perkins will be playing at the same time ala Stockton and Pangos. The other shooting guards will be lucky to get 20 min per game.
wing is up for grabs
JWIII and Collins will probably share that forward spot with either Shem or Edwards anchoring. If shems back, great, if not well one big man won't have to learn to live with 5mpg ala Spangler.

The offense is going to have to come from somewhere and im guessing it will again be an inside out type of year where we wish for a wing and hope the guards can knock down shots.

He averaged 3ppg in 8 mpg. What makes you think that he'll be "anchoring" anything other than a spot on the bench? Not trying to be harsh, but at this point in his career, he is what he is. ZC and Larsen will most likely pass him by.

Ezag
04-06-2016, 07:50 AM
We took a big hit with Domas declaring. Shem is good but he is no Domas.

thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2016, 07:51 AM
We took a big hit with Domas declaring. Shem is good but he is no Domas.

Agreed. Someone mentioned a total under the radar possible transfer in the transfer thread; the big kid from Poland at Drake. he put up great numbers for a freshman and his last three game were sick. I wonder if he has a connection to Shem.

CDC84
04-06-2016, 07:57 AM
We took a big hit with Domas declaring. Shem is good but he is no Domas.

I agree that they are different talents, but I still think the team will be very, very good if Shem returns healthy. Karno, JWIII, Collins is still a high level frontcourt. Combine that with better guard play and the addition of an elite perimeter grad transfer, and next year's team could still be special.

Now if Karno leaves, that's where some worries kick in for me. However, I just get this sense that the team will be less erratic than it was this past season due to the addition of NWG, the experience of Perkins and Melson, the addition of Norvell, and again, the likely addition of a seasoned grad transfer.

strikenowhere
04-06-2016, 07:59 AM
I agree that they are different talents, but I still think the team will be very, very good if Shem returns healthy. Karno, JWIII, Collins is still a high level frontcourt. Combine that with better guard play and the addition of an elite perimeter grad transfer, and next year's team could still be special.

Now if Karno leaves, that's where some worries kick in for me. However, I just get this sense that the team will be less erratic than it was this past season due to the addition of NWG, the experience of Perkins and Melson, the addition of Norvell, and again, the likely addition of a seasoned grad transfer.

I get the feeling Karno is going to bolt now too, assuming the doctors tell him he can play again. Get paid while you can, as you never know when a career ending injury can occur (especially with an already questionable back).

ZagsObserver
04-06-2016, 08:06 AM
Williams and Goss were both leading scorers on their teams before transferring and the two freshman are both highly rated scorers who will contribute immediately. Other pieces will be added if both Karn and Sabonis leave. Graduate transfers and junior college stars will be pursued this offseason. We will be fine.

The team is deep, save for maybe the 3 spot. I have no interest in a JC star. Graduate transfer only in the event he is a talented player who was a star on his previous team.

CDC84
04-06-2016, 08:23 AM
get the feeling Karno is going to bolt now too, assuming the doctors tell him he can play again. Get paid while you can, as you never know when a career ending injury can occur (especially with an already questionable back).

From what I hear it is "how long" they think he can play. If it's just a couple of years, see ya. If things are totally back to normal, then it's a different decision. I guess they will be able determine that kind of thing once he gets medically checked out again.

hooter73
04-06-2016, 12:29 PM
We took a big hit with Domas declaring. Shem is good but he is no Domas.

A different look and identity will be fine, I just dont know what it will be. Dont know if anyone knows. Adjusting to the loss of KW's all around offense will almost be harder than Domas's rebounding and footwork in the post.

Coach Crazy
04-06-2016, 02:19 PM
I get the feeling Karno is going to bolt now too, assuming the doctors tell him he can play again. Get paid while you can, as you never know when a career ending injury can occur (especially with an already questionable back).

What pro team is going to take him with the injury he is coming off of? Doesn't sound like a lucrative situation. Especially when we are talking about one year. He gets a lot of benefits playing at Gonzaga that will probably be monetarily better than what a team that is willing to take that chance can pay. Or at least relatively close to it.

vandalzag
04-06-2016, 02:45 PM
What pro team is going to take him with the injury he is coming off of? Doesn't sound like a lucrative situation. Especially when we are talking about one year. He gets a lot of benefits playing at Gonzaga that will probably be monetarily better than what a team that is willing to take that chance can pay. Or at least relatively close to it.

He needs to go get paid while he can. Back injuries are too unpredictable and no NBA team will take a chance on him this year, Europe on the other hand would be an option as contracts over there tend to not be guaranteed. Unless of course the doctors give him a clean bill of health then it may make sense to come back and see if he can catch the eye of some scouts .

Coach Crazy
04-06-2016, 02:51 PM
He needs to go get paid while he can. Back injuries are too unpredictable and no NBA team will take a chance on him this year, Europe on the other hand would be an option as contracts over there tend to not be guaranteed. Unless of course the doctors give him a clean bill of health then it may make sense to come back and see if he can catch the eye of some scouts .

So, he goes non-guaranteed to a Euro team, fresh off a back injury, where the medical quality will be lesser, and the training will be lesser (Donny Daniels and Travis Knight)? That seems like a bigger risk than staying at Gonzaga, having a strong year, and showing scouts that the back injury isn't going to be something to scare them away from drafting him.

Alum08
04-06-2016, 02:56 PM
So, he goes non-guaranteed to a Euro team, fresh off a back injury, where the medical quality will be lesser, and the training will be lesser (Donny Daniels and Travis Knight)? That seems like a bigger risk than staying at Gonzaga, having a strong year, and showing scouts that the back injury isn't going to be something to scare them away from drafting him.

Not to mention that a master's degree is really nice to have if you have a short professional career.

jazzdelmar
04-06-2016, 02:59 PM
Bad day all round. Worse than when Ammo left. He stayed 3 years and two were great. Being fed all the rah rah Sabonis stuff through the season -- education, Gonzaga spirit, friends, family, college atmosphere -- is part of the bad taste and disappointment. If he goes top ten, mazeltov. If closer to 20ish then it was always about the money and one very talented foot out the door.

Zagdawg
04-06-2016, 03:02 PM
Not going to knock a kid for making an important life decision. Best of luck to him. Once a Zag always a Zag.

Not bitter at all--- happy for him and I will follow him where ever he goes.

#Zag4Life

Alum08
04-06-2016, 03:05 PM
Bad day all round. Worse than when Ammo left. He stayed 3 years and two were great. Being fed all the rah rah Sabonis stuff through the season -- education, Gonzaga spirit, friends, family, college atmosphere -- is part of the bad taste and disappointment. If he goes top ten, mazeltov. If closer to 20ish then it was always about the money and one very talented foot out the door.

Perhaps he thought the national hoopla surrounding him (and his father) that ensues next year would be too distracting? If he goes to the league he won't get nearly as much media coverage once the season begins and he's just another cog in the wheel. A rapidly improving cog hopefully.

jazzdelmar
04-06-2016, 03:27 PM
Perhaps he thought the national hoopla surrounding him (and his father) that ensues next year would be too distracting? If he goes to the league he won't get nearly as much media coverage once the season begins and he's just another cog in the wheel. A rapidly improving cog hopefully.

Never got the feeling Dom was a shrinking violet when it came to public attention. Seemed to relish it, actually. Dad was somewhat recalcitrant but mom was a model, actress, public figure. But you're right. Sitting at the end of a sub 500 NBA team in the dreary Midwest will certainly not offer a hot spotlight.

vandalzag
04-06-2016, 03:37 PM
Bad day all round. Worse than when Ammo left. He stayed 3 years and two were great. Being fed all the rah rah Sabonis stuff through the season -- education, Gonzaga spirit, friends, family, college atmosphere -- is part of the bad taste and disappointment. If he goes top ten, mazeltov. If closer to 20ish then it was always about the money and one very talented foot out the door.

Goal to play in NBA, NBA says he is ready, then he should proceed to the next step. Top 5 top 20 is all about the money since the NBA pays it's players. NBA is not about how good you are but how good you might be, being smart is making the move at the right time (think Olynyk and his decsion was based on the strength of the draft). I would guess that he is privy to more information then most kids and is very well informed. What you were "fed" that was based on what people in the know on this board but the variable of him taking the big step this year was never considered. If Shem does not go down, DS does not get the chance to operate and expand his game because he would not have been asked or expected to do as much. And maybe just maybe Shem's injury put a little fear into him and his family as to how finite this opportunity can be. I say good luck to him and many thanks for his effort and attitude for the last two years.

seacatfan
04-06-2016, 03:51 PM
Never got the feeling Dom was a shrinking violet when it came to public attention. Seemed to relish it, actually. Dad was somewhat recalcitrant but mom was a model, actress, public figure. But you're right. Sitting at the end of a sub 500 NBA team in the dreary Midwest will certainly not offer a hot spotlight.

Would he be likely to end up with a better NBA if he waits another year to declare for the draft? I don't see how that would follow. And as someone mentioned the lottery hasn't even happened yet, so don't know what the draft order is, so no way to even possibly guess where he would end up. Maybe he'll be in a major city on the East Coast rather than the dreary Midwest as you put it. If he and his family feel like he is ready, then I say good luck to him.

Mantua
04-06-2016, 08:50 PM
Would he be likely to end up with a better NBA if he waits another year to declare for the draft? I don't see how that would follow. And as someone mentioned the lottery hasn't even happened yet, so don't know what the draft order is, so no way to even possibly guess where he would end up. Maybe he'll be in a major city on the East Coast rather than the dreary Midwest as you put it. If he and his family feel like he is ready, then I say good luck to him.

Philadelphia?

WallaWallaZag
04-06-2016, 08:51 PM
Bad day all round. Worse than when Ammo left. He stayed 3 years and two were great. Being fed all the rah rah Sabonis stuff through the season -- education, Gonzaga spirit, friends, family, college atmosphere -- is part of the bad taste and disappointment. If he goes top ten, mazeltov. If closer to 20ish then it was always about the money and one very talented foot out the door.

not so much about the money as it is about the level of competition...his inner circle believes it's time for him to challenge himself against better players...started when his brothers came over and saw what he was doing to the wcc bottom feeders and solidified by what he did this march against more legit comp...

Mantua
04-06-2016, 09:04 PM
not so much about the money as it is about the level of competition...his inner circle believes it's time for him to challenge himself against better players...started when his brothers came over and saw what he was doing to the wcc bottom feeders and solidified by what he did this march against more legit comp...

Before Domas made the decision to come to GU, Arvydas was making the argument that he could benefit from playing with grown men in Spain. I think your reasoning is correct, WallaWalla.

ZagaZags
04-06-2016, 09:29 PM
This team will be barely recognizable next season.

WallaWallaZag
04-06-2016, 09:35 PM
This team will be barely recognizable next season.

well, not exactly a world of difference from this past year...wiltjer ended up being the only returning starter though there were more familiar faces overall...

zagdontzig
04-06-2016, 10:24 PM
Bad day all round. Worse than when Ammo left. He stayed 3 years and two were great. Being fed all the rah rah Sabonis stuff through the season -- education, Gonzaga spirit, friends, family, college atmosphere -- is part of the bad taste and disappointment. If he goes top ten, mazeltov. If closer to 20ish then it was always about the money and one very talented foot out the door.

Countless top 20 picks have very successful careers. Do you ever go back and check on the things you say? Or just make aggressive assertions and never revisit them for accuracy. Or maybe you're secretly a pro scout? Like the guys who his father has been making sure he talks to for advice on the best possible decision with the information he has in front of him? What's your secret?

MDABE80
04-07-2016, 12:02 AM
Countless top 20 picks have very successful careers. Do you ever go back and check on the things you say? Or just make aggressive assertions and never revisit them for accuracy. Or maybe you're secretly a pro scout? Like the guys who his father has been making sure he talks to for advice on the best possible decision with the information he has in front of him? What's your secret?

Sarcasm much? Hard for newcombers to make friends when it's the order of the day...........

jazzdelmar
04-07-2016, 04:15 AM
Sarcasm much? Hard for newcombers to make friends when it's the order of the day...........

Ignore him, Doc. A junior varsity Vandal......

thespywhozaggedme
04-07-2016, 06:13 AM
well, not exactly a world of difference from this past year...wiltjer ended up being the only returning starter though there were more familiar faces overall...

Domas, Shem, Wiltjer, Drangs, Emac, Melson and Edwards all returned from last season.

DixieZag
04-07-2016, 06:18 AM
Lots of questions, lots of reasons for optimism, especially if we pick up that wing everyone likes so much, Pryor.

WallaWallaZag
04-07-2016, 08:21 AM
Domas, Shem, Wiltjer, Drangs, Emac, Melson and Edwards all returned from last season.

last year lost 4 players: pangos, bell, wesley, nunez
this year losing 4 guys: wiltjer, dranginis, emac, sabonis

so from a pure declining numbers standpoint, basically the same...obviously two of the most important "returning" players next year are redshirt transfers, but wiltjer and wesley integrated last year without issue and since nwg and jw3 are similar in both being experienced juniors next year i would expect a fairly smooth transition as well.

23dpg
04-07-2016, 08:25 AM
Someone will need to step up and be the "3 point" guy. Believe it or not, I think it'll be Perkins.

bartruff1
04-07-2016, 08:32 AM
This team will be barely recognizable next season.

It will take some time to get all the pieces to work together ......at this point, I don't see this team having a better season than last years.......maybe the new players can replace Sabonis and KW....but I am skeptical ....

WallaWallaZag
04-07-2016, 08:52 AM
It will take some time to get all the pieces to work together ......at this point, I don't see this team having a better season than last years.......maybe the new players can replace Sabonis and KW....but I am skeptical ....

if karno returns, i think between him and jw3 + collins...the three of them together can roughly replace the production of sabonis and wiltjer...not quite the scoring punch, but i think rebounds will at least be a wash and the defense will be much much better.

GU69
04-07-2016, 08:53 AM
This team will be barely recognizable next season.

I liked it when everyone stayed for four years.

thespywhozaggedme
04-07-2016, 09:21 AM
last year lost 4 players: pangos, bell, wesley, nunez
this year losing 4 guys: wiltjer, dranginis, emac, sabonis

so from a pure declining numbers standpoint, basically the same...obviously two of the most important "returning" players next year are redshirt transfers, but wiltjer and wesley integrated last year without issue and since nwg and jw3 are similar in both being experienced juniors next year i would expect a fairly smooth transition as well.

Nunez? he played about as much as Edwards does, if not less. We're losing 83% of our scoring, think about that for a second. That's nuts. From a voyeurs perspective, I can't wait to see how we replace it.

WallaWallaZag
04-08-2016, 07:47 AM
Nunez? he played about as much as Edwards does, if not less. We're losing 83% of our scoring, think about that for a second. That's nuts. From a voyeurs perspective, I can't wait to see how we replace it.

if karno returns (assuming healthy and 100%), it's actually pretty straightforward...
i already explained above the trio of karno+jw3+collins replacing sabonis+wiltjer

the combination of nwg & norvell should more than replace the scoring of emac & dranginis...and you would expect perkins and melson to increase their respective offensive outputs as well.

net result is about the same, but with the scoring more evenly distributed and guard-oriented...

JAGzag
04-08-2016, 08:01 AM
if karno returns (assuming healthy and 100%), it's actually pretty straightforward...
i already explained above the trio of karno+jw3+collins replacing sabonis+wiltjer

the combination of nwg & norvell should more than replace the scoring of emac & dranginis...and you would expect perkins and melson to increase their respective offensive outputs as well.

net result is about the same, but with the scoring more evenly distributed and guard-oriented...

Agreed and we also need to keep in mind that the top 2 expected new impact players (JW3 and NWG) have already been playing with this team for a whole year. That makes a big difference as the team seeks to blend in new guys.

Idahozag10
04-08-2016, 10:16 AM
Hey guys,

First post here. I have been a die hard zag fan since I can remember.
I just wanna say that even with Domas leaving, I believe the zags will reload and once again be an elite team... I believe we will rightly return to the top 25 rankings.

We may look like a different team next year, but I still believe we will be as good as ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hoopaholic
04-08-2016, 11:36 AM
Hey guys,

First post here. I have been a die hard zag fan since I can remember.
I just wanna say that even with Domas leaving, I believe the zags will reload and once again be an elite team... I believe we will rightly return to the top 25 rankings.

We may look like a different team next year, but I still believe we will be as good as ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Welcome. Look forward to your opinions and insight

Go Zags

Reborn
04-08-2016, 11:37 AM
I know that last year at this time I felt a lot more positive about the Zags than I do this year at this time. Last year at this time the Zags were returning PK, Sabonis and Wiltjer, and Dranginis. This was a solid foundation. I think most of us hear on GUboards felt pretty secure about making it to NCAA Tournament, and some felt secure in thinking that it was a Sweet 16 team "at least." Things fell apart after PK's injury and it was quite an exciting season, and one I'll always remember as one of the better seasons ever. It had a great ending, and what story with a great ending is not a great story.

Because chemistry and cohesion is so important to the success of a team I am very uncertain about next years team. First we don't even know about PK returning to GU, nor how well he will be able to play. That in itself gives me an uncertain feeling. If Karnowski does not return I believe it will be the first time that Gonzaga does not have a Senior on the team. We might have to go all the way back to '99. I doubt that in '99 a whole lot of fans thought the team would be as good as they turned out to be. I see myself in the light of some of the '99 fans who thought, "just maybe?" Because Gonzaga is Gonzaga I can honestly say "just maybe" we will be as good as last years team. I have a lot more uncertainties right now than I ever have had. There are just too many "maybes" and too many "ifs" right now for me to feel as positive as I did last year. But one thing about me, and probably you, I will never "count out" the Zags. To me they are a phenomina and any thing can happen. I am hoping that between now and Oct 15th I'll know alot more about the team, and especially Karnowski. I hope no know more about the transfers and how they are playing together in summer ball. And finally I want to see which incoming freshmen show up on campus this summer to play with the team during the summer.

Go Zags!!!

ZagsGoZags
04-08-2016, 01:16 PM
Pangos 5-11, Bell 6-2, Wesley 6-5

PERK 6-3, NWG 6-3, Melson 6-4

No real difference height wise from 2015 team to 2017 team

No way Bell was 3 inches taller than Pangos, in side by side photos they look even, or maybe bell has 1 inch on KP

vandalzag
04-08-2016, 03:29 PM
No way Bell was 3 inches taller than Pangos, in side by side photos they look even, or maybe bell has 1 inch on KP

So who is taller John Stockton or Matt Santengelo?

Coach Crazy
04-08-2016, 03:43 PM
if karno returns, i think between him and jw3 + collins...the three of them together can roughly replace the production of sabonis and wiltjer...not quite the scoring punch, but i think rebounds will at least be a wash and the defense will be much much better.

You'll get 40-ish points from those three. And yes, I agree about the defense. Shem can do his thing in the paint as he has previously done, and you won't have any defensive worry on switches and what not, as you did with Wilt. Not to mention they just became a very shot-blocking oriented forward pack that is also more athletic.

Coach Crazy
04-08-2016, 03:48 PM
if karno returns (assuming healthy and 100%), it's actually pretty straightforward...
i already explained above the trio of karno+jw3+collins replacing sabonis+wiltjer

the combination of nwg & norvell should more than replace the scoring of emac & dranginis...and you would expect perkins and melson to increase their respective offensive outputs as well.

net result is about the same, but with the scoring more evenly distributed and guard-oriented...

I can actually see this team becoming a more offensive team than last year. Yes, it will take chemistry, because you can't just go to your favorite well with a few choice buckets from which to pull the water...but goodness, Zach, Zack, Josh, Silas, and NWG can all shoot that 3 ball. And that's before an add like Pryor. I get that people are leery after this last season, but we'll have more depth and more balance, while still having go-to scoring outlets.