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adoptedzag
03-20-2016, 10:38 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15027574/chad-ford-ncaa-tournament-draft-stock-watch-nba-draft-2016


Domantas Sabonis
Gonzaga
Sophomore
Forward

Sabonis had a crazy good weekend, scoring 21 points and grabbing 16 rebounds against Seton Hall, then following that up with 19 points and 10 rebounds against Utah.

Not only was he efficient offensively and on the boards, but he completely shut down Jakob Poeltl, a projected top-10 pick. Watching them on the floor together, it looked as if Sabonis, not Poeltl, was the guy scouts were pegging for the top 10.

His stock has been rising for weeks and I think his strong play this weekend just helped it again. He has a good shot at the late lottery, especially if he continues his tear next week.

23dpg
03-20-2016, 10:41 PM
Hooray?

vandalzag
03-21-2016, 07:50 AM
Yep this is turning into the kind of run that pushes DS into a top 15 pick. He made Poeltl look really bad on Saturday.

thespywhozaggedme
03-21-2016, 08:36 AM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1432523

Chicken Ball
03-21-2016, 08:44 AM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1432523

Those posts provide the best argument for why Domas might want to stick around. Next year, he'll be able to play PF beside either Karnowski or Collins (this scenario gets chucked, I guess, if JW or Collins start at PF and Domas has to play Center again). At PF he can showcase his shooting and passing a bit more and really work on his ballhandling and face-up moves.

DixieZag
03-21-2016, 08:45 AM
Getting to the point where he just about has to go. I have always believed those close to the family that say he was committed to 3 years no matter what, but, wow. If he is sliding into that top 10, it's hard to picture him coming back.

Let's hope he takes us to the Final Four and thus he can feel like he can go no higher.

What a special player.

strikenowhere
03-21-2016, 08:45 AM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1432523

Have these people even watched Sabonis play? He doesn't have a mid-range game? How many times have I seen Sabonis shoot a jumper in the key? Geez!

thespywhozaggedme
03-21-2016, 08:49 AM
Have these people even watched Sabonis play? He doesn't have a mid-range game? How many times have I seen Sabonis shoot a jumper in the key? Geez!

Yeah, I guess it's the perception on him, regardless of if it's the reality.

thespywhozaggedme
03-21-2016, 08:59 AM
This rebuttal to the ill informed poster, was direct and right to the point, lol:

Stackey wrote:
And no, he can't just switch to PF positicon, because he can't shoot. Not even mid range.


dalton749 wrote:
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

rennis
03-21-2016, 09:03 AM
I am definitely preparing myself for a life without Sabonis in a Zags jersey next year.

75Zag
03-21-2016, 09:08 AM
I am definitely preparing myself for a life without Sabonis in a Zags jersey next year.

Agreed, but hopefully he will lead GU to a FF before he leaves. It would be nice to see him again next year, but I am definitely not counting on it.

Go Bulldogs - See you on Lower Wacker Drive!

gonstu
03-21-2016, 09:34 AM
As much as I hate the idea of DS not being back next year, if the consolation prize is a trip to the F4 this year I think I'll be able to get over it.

Zags have had their share of running into buzz saws in the past, I have to say this bracket has winnable games in front of us. What a difference a couple weeks went - from just being happy to be in the tourney to again having aspirations of a F4 run. Go zags, it will be a fun week.

BULLDOG#1
03-21-2016, 10:10 AM
Has he played himself into the lottery? That's the only way I can see him leaving. As great as he's looked, I'm not sure he's ready. If he says and continues to improve, especially on the perimeter, he'll be a lottery pick next year.

vandalzag
03-21-2016, 10:23 AM
Nice write up in Bill Simmons new site The Ringer. Second article from the top.

http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9a393473748185dce76bf8339&id=167dc750e1&e=9139d2c162

Bogozags
03-21-2016, 10:29 AM
Those posts provide the best argument for why Domas might want to stick around. Next year, he'll be able to play PF beside either Karnowski or Collins (this scenario gets chucked, I guess, if JW or Collins start at PF and Domas has to play Center again). At PF he can showcase his shooting and passing a bit more and really work on his ballhandling and face-up moves.

+1 On his coming back for one more year...

If he plays the "C" he still has ample opportunity to showcase his jumper...just as he is doing this season...

TacomaZAG
03-21-2016, 10:38 AM
IMHO, Domas has a lot more bargaining clout than other PF's who played the 5 at GU (Josh Heytvelt comes to mind) or other players who played out of position while at GU (Pendo, as an example). For one thing, he WILL play PF in the league, and could use another year to polish his mid-range game on the offensive end and his perimeter defense on the other end of the floor. Another, more important thing, IMHO, is the fact that the ZAGS will have 3 bigs next year (assuming Karno returns) which will allow Domas to play his more natural position.

If he returns for his Junior year (hoping with fingers crossed), he will be a pre-season All American as well as a real candidate for POY, on a ZAG team that will be pre-season Top 10 and loaded.

Bottom line for me, Domas could use another year in college but doesn't require one............

Either way, he is a he!! of a ZAG, and we are lucky to have him.

Go ZAGS

75Zag
03-21-2016, 10:53 AM
I am happy to celebrate the fact that DS chose to come to GU and to play so well while he was here. If you look at the potential disaster of college injuries (see: Karno), it would be difficult to argue against DS going to the NBA while he is the darling of the media's eye and particularly in a year where he looks very much like a top 10 NBA lottery pick. But I am sure there are equally good arguments as to why he should return for a 3rd year at GU. Regardless of all that, I wish him well and say . . .

Go Bulldogs!

sittingon50
03-21-2016, 11:10 AM
Nice write up in Bill Simmons new site The Ringer. Second article from the top.

http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9a393473748185dce76bf8339&id=167dc750e1&e=9139d2c162

VERY nice article Vandal. Thanks.

CarolinaZagFan
03-21-2016, 11:32 AM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1432523

Lol I bet that is the most frustrating forum on the internet. A bunch of amateur GMs that all think they're the smartest guy in the room.

Alum08
03-21-2016, 11:37 AM
Lol I bet that is the most frustrating forum on the internet. A bunch of amateur GMs that all think they're the smartest guy in the room.


Didn't see the game, but afterwards Sabonis admitted he got a lot of help. Sabonis is a good player, but I'll take Poeltl over him any day.

That about sums it up.

Zagdawg
03-21-2016, 11:45 AM
Best Big Man Left In The Dance


http://www.campusrush.com/gonzaga-bulldogs-basketball-domantas-sabonis-ncaa-tournament-1676850010.html

zagfan24
03-21-2016, 11:48 AM
Couldn't fault Domas for leaving if he chooses to do so. He has been an incredible presence for the Zags this year. IF he and Karno both return, they could be the best defensive frontcourt in the nation next year. Even if he Sabonis goes early, his success, media exposure, and first round draft status will continue to pay dividends long into the future. You have to imagine a guy like Zach Collins observed the development of GU bigs into pro players and that continues to be the case. It's an interesting legacy being built for "Guard U"...

sittingon50
03-21-2016, 12:08 PM
Best Big Man Left In The Dance


http://www.campusrush.com/gonzaga-bulldogs-basketball-domantas-sabonis-ncaa-tournament-1676850010.html

ANOTHER great article. Thanks ZD.

Jstock12
03-21-2016, 12:09 PM
Sabonis is feeling so at home in the NCAA tournament that he's now even using English profanities—rather than the Lithuanian ones he formerly employed to stay on the right side of the refs—as exclamations after big plays.

Does this mean he has finally fully acclimated to North American style of basketball?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

;)

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-21-2016, 12:36 PM
Nice write up in Bill Simmons new site The Ringer. Second article from the top.

http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9a393473748185dce76bf8339&id=167dc750e1&e=9139d2c162

Great article and great finish:
"Domantas Sabonis is making the leap in real time. Savor it."

Everyone talks about how much Zag guards have improved this season, but I think Domantas' improvement in this final month of the season has been off the charts. He is blowing up before our eyes!

U Zig, I Zag
03-21-2016, 12:48 PM
Come back for a year. Play the 4. Take guys on the dribble. Shoot 3's. I think he'll be an All-American and a top 5 pick if he comes back. But again, he might be top 15 now... hard to pass that up.

zagamatic
03-21-2016, 01:18 PM
I think that we'll have a much better idea how solid his draft stock is after we see him against the Syracuse zone

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-21-2016, 01:32 PM
I think that we'll have a much better idea how solid his draft stock is after we see him against the Syracuse zone

I think his 1v1 match-up against and domination of Poeltl did way more for his draft stock than playing against 'Cuse zone ever can. You don't see much zone in the NBA.

On the other hand, if Sabonis dishes 5+ assists, dominates the offensive glass and knocks down midrange jumpers all night long vs Syracuse it sure won't hurt his draft stock!

Mr Vulture
03-21-2016, 02:24 PM
I still am firmly of the belief that he will return to Gonzaga regardless of whether he's in the lottery or not. I have three reasons for this thought. The first is the stated reason to come to GU instead of playing pro in Europe...the degree he can earn. The second reason is the commitment he has to the Lithuanian national team/Olympics this summer. The final thing is that it really doesn't matter if he is lottery or later first round in the grand scheme. He can get insured against injury and he will still be a first rounder next year if he is healthy.


Getting to the point where he just about has to go. I have always believed those close to the family that say he was committed to 3 years no matter what, but, wow. If he is sliding into that top 10, it's hard to picture him coming back.

Let's hope he takes us to the Final Four and thus he can feel like he can go no higher.

What a special player.

Hoopaholic
03-21-2016, 02:41 PM
I still am firmly of the belief that he will return to Gonzaga regardless of whether he's in the lottery or not. I have three reasons for this thought. The first is the stated reason to come to GU instead of playing pro in Europe...the degree he can earn. The second reason is the commitment he has to the Lithuanian national team/Olympics this summer. The final thing is that it really doesn't matter if he is lottery or later first round in the grand scheme. He can get insured against injury and he will still be a first rounder next year if he is healthy.

I am in your camp....unless we win a national title I see him coming back

bigblahla
03-21-2016, 03:00 PM
I am in your camp....unless we win a national title I see him coming back

What? You don't think he would come back to defend the title with his brothers and play with Shem....

The stars are aligning.....

Go!! Zags!!!

jazzdelmar
03-21-2016, 03:16 PM
He will play pro eventually. Doesn't need cash and still only 20. Only one shot at wooden award and NC.

GoZags
03-21-2016, 03:25 PM
I still am firmly of the belief that he will return to Gonzaga regardless of whether he's in the lottery or not. I have three reasons for this thought. The first is the stated reason to come to GU instead of playing pro in Europe...the degree he can earn. The second reason is the commitment he has to the Lithuanian national team/Olympics this summer. The final thing is that it really doesn't matter if he is lottery or later first round in the grand scheme. He can get insured against injury and he will still be a first rounder next year if he is healthy.

A 4th reason (more so than "insurance" etc in my opinion) is that his mom and dad have really bought in to the "college experience" for their youngest. MUCH more so now than when he first got here. And it's not just the "college" experience ... but the "Gonzaga" experience.

Of course "anything can happen" but I'm optimistic that the Zag's front line will be really really deep next year.

DADoZAG
03-21-2016, 03:27 PM
What? You don't think he would come back to defend the title with his brothers and play with Shem....

The stars are aligning.....

Go!! Zags!!!

... I agree with Hoops because if the ZAGS win the NC, Bonus will have played himself into a top five pick and he'd possibly get five phone calls guaranteeing it.

I think the Wooden isn't something a guy like Domas would even consider, but that's just my opinion.

If he returns, he'd most certainly be in that conversation, however.

#BTZ! (bust the zone)

Go ZAGS!

rennis
03-21-2016, 03:31 PM
One of the reasons his draft stock is rising is because of how young he is. NBA drafts for ceiling and # of years of service potential in the league. Regarding both, I can see how Sabonis could be near the zenith of his appeal in this summer's draft. His in-game performances have been on a steady climb for weeks, and it's hard to imagine him having significantly better stats with one more year in college. One more year in college would be one less year in the pros - and that would negatively weigh against his draft stock next year vs. this year.

DADoZAG
03-21-2016, 03:34 PM
A 4th reason (more so than "insurance" etc in my opinion) is that his mom and dad have really bought in to the "college experience" for their youngest. MUCH more so now than when he first got here. And it's not just the "college" experience ... but the "Gonzaga" experience.

Of course "anything can happen" but I'm optimistic that the Zag's front line will be really really deep next year.

OT: I had a chance to thank his pops in the Vegas for sending Domas to GU. A gentleman who was obviously a close friend to the senior Sabonis said something to the effect of "...it's always about Domantas...", ribbing the big guy!

Friends and family keep everyone grounded....

Go ZAGS!

Bouldin4Prez
03-21-2016, 04:00 PM
I sure hope he comes back, but in all honesty, he has no reason to come back other than pursuing college accolades and a national championship. He's as NBA ready as you can get in my opinion. All the draft analysts claiming that he needs to come back to school to work on his mid range jump shot clearly haven't watched him play. In the past month or so I'm guessing he's shooting ~60% from outside of 12 feet (Anyone have that stat?). I would say Sabonis's NBA floor is a starter in the league and his ceiling is All-Star level. The dude knows how to ball. My favorite part about Sabonis is that HE knows he is a beast so he plays with that exact mindset.

Ezag
03-21-2016, 04:27 PM
He is only 20 and you play the game of basketball to ultimately be in the NBA. He is young and ready. He has nothing left to prove in college

Bogozags
03-21-2016, 04:38 PM
One of the reasons his draft stock is rising is because of how young he is. NBA drafts for ceiling and # of years of service potential in the league. Regarding both, I can see how Sabonis could be near the zenith of his appeal in this summer's draft. His in-game performances have been on a steady climb for weeks, and it's hard to imagine him having significantly better stats with one more year in college. One more year in college would be one less year in the pros - and that would negatively weigh against his draft stock next year vs. this year.


He is only 20 and you play the game of basketball to ultimately be in the NBA. He is young and ready. He has nothing left to prove in college

I can appreciate your logic; however, Buddy Hield will be a lottery pick this year and he is a senior. His stock went up immeasurably from his junior year...it could be said that staying at GU one more year could do wonders for his draft status also, he loves being a college student and he doesn't need the money. I still believe Austin Daye should have stayed one more year and matured physically and mentally...imo

Zagceo
03-21-2016, 04:46 PM
OT: I had a chance to thank his pops in the Vegas for sending Domas to GU. A gentleman who was obviously a close friend to the senior Sabonis said something to the effect of "...it's always about Domantas...", ribbing the big guy!

Friends and family keep everyone grounded....

Go ZAGS!

Thanks for the story.

The reason he raised his family in Spain was fear of his shadow and to hear from fans talking about his son with such affection………special

Coach Crazy
03-21-2016, 04:48 PM
I can appreciate your logic; however, Buddy Hield will be a lottery pick this year and he is a senior. His stock went up immeasurably from his junior year...it could be said that staying at GU one more year could do wonders for his draft status also, he loves being a college student and he doesn't need the money. I still believe Austin Daye should have stayed one more year and matured physically and mentally...imo

Buddy was nowhere near the impact player that as a Sophomore, though. For Domas to come back and have his draft stock be higher than what it will potentially be after March Madness, he'll have to be shooting a lot more 3's and from the mid-range. You also take the chance, in a situation like that, where you hurt your draft stock. Whereas, if he goes this year, shoots well in practice, and shows that he can improve while producing for an NBA team...you're still set in with your standing.

Honestly, if I were Domas, I would want to go to a team that really spreads it out and shoots a lot of 3's. You get the chance to rebound, you're going to get a lot of one on one opportunities, and you'll rack up a ton of assists. With his footwork and strength, he'd be wrecking ball at the next level with a team like Golden State.

Alum08
03-21-2016, 05:53 PM
Remember that the higher you go in the draft the better the chances that you will go to a crappy franchise. The Sabonis family already has money. They obviously want their son to be happy and in the best situation as possible regardless of money (else he would be playing Euroleague right now). The couple of million dollar difference between draft positions isn't going to be worth it to him if he winds up in Sacramento. I feel like Kyle Anderson had the best draft night last year even though he went 30th overall. He lost a few $$$ for slipping down the board a little but he wound up in basketball mecca.

maynard g krebs
03-21-2016, 06:48 PM
I wonder if Euros in general have the mindset that if you have more than enough for anything you'll ever want or need, money becomes secondary to life experiences. People in Europe, from stuff I've seen, live less materialistically than Americans in exchange for working less hours, longer vacations, etc. Culture often plays a role in the mindset of individuals.

If he had a career ending injury tomorrow, Domantas will always have far more money than he'll ever need. I don't know anything about him or his family other than what I've read here, but it sounds to me like there's a very good chance that he'll wait till the ripe old age of 21 to begin his pro career.

In his rare case, the money from his first pro contract isn't gonna significantly change his life anyway, in contrast to about 98% of draft prospects.

Zagger
03-21-2016, 07:15 PM
Come back for a year. Play the 4. Take guys on the dribble. Shoot 3's. I think he'll be an All-American and a top 5 pick if he comes back. But again, he might be top 15 now... hard to pass that up.

Spot on my feeling too. If anyone can pass up the NBA to continue in a program they love it is Sabonis. Couple that with Shemmick returning (which I feel is his best move and most likely will be his choice) and the two can help one another reach the NBA in style. GU's program benefits the players whether they go on in BB or otherwise. I simply do not see Sabonis leaving GU after only 2 years.

But, next up Syracuse. They're a good team. It's gonna be a battle. Go Zags!

Ezag
03-21-2016, 07:25 PM
I can appreciate your logic; however, Buddy Hield will be a lottery pick this year and he is a senior. His stock went up immeasurably from his junior year...it could be said that staying at GU one more year could do wonders for his draft status also, he loves being a college student and he doesn't need the money. I still believe Austin Daye should have stayed one more year and matured physically and mentally...imo

Domantas could be a lottery pick this year. I don't think Buddy was last year. It was really the Oklahoma - Kansas game a few months ago that set him ablaze up the draft charts. Turiaf was a 1st rounder who came back another year and he dropped to #37. While I don't think this will happen with Domas, he doesn't have anything left to prove in college. Either way, if he returns we win, if he goes to the NBA we win. Potential recruits want to go to schools that send players to the NBA.

sittingon50
03-21-2016, 08:56 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2626239-ncaa-tournament-2016-the-all-tournament-team-through-round-of-32/page/7

23dpg
03-23-2016, 03:00 PM
Although not yet projected to be a lottery pick, Domas' stock is still rising. According to this cbs sports article, he's the 3rd highest rated player (future pro) in the tournament.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25527503/nba-draft-2016-which-prospects-to-watch-for-in-the-sweet-16

Jstock12
03-23-2016, 03:05 PM
He will play pro eventually. Doesn't need cash and still only 20. Only one shot at wooden award and NC.

He is only 20 and you play the game of basketball to ultimately be in the NBA. He is young and ready. He has nothing left to prove in college

Not to be nitpicker, but technically he's still a teenager at 19 :p Until May 3rd :)

krozman
03-23-2016, 03:10 PM
Not needing the cash clears the mind. If he chooses to go it will not be because he needs the money. It will be because he is chasing HIS dreams, and I will not fault him for it. Adam Morrison needed to jump early because of his health dated his long term potential. Some need the cash because they came from nowhere and millions of dollars gives immediate validation. Some chase promises they made to family (Thinking of Ronny Turiaf). Not saying Sabonis isn't considering it all, but I for one am confident that whatever decision he makes, I will support it.

Coach Crazy
03-23-2016, 03:25 PM
Domantas could be a lottery pick this year. I don't think Buddy was last year. It was really the Oklahoma - Kansas game a few months ago that set him ablaze up the draft charts. Turiaf was a 1st rounder who came back another year and he dropped to #37. While I don't think this will happen with Domas, he doesn't have anything left to prove in college. Either way, if he returns we win, if he goes to the NBA we win. Potential recruits want to go to schools that send players to the NBA.

Gonzaga sending a sophomore (and sometime in the near future, a freshman) is very much another step for this program.

BBzag
03-23-2016, 03:54 PM
Gonzaga sending a sophomore (and sometime in the near future, a freshman) is very much another step for this program.

It's been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Daye

Jstock12
03-23-2016, 03:56 PM
It's been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Daye

Austin Daye has won an NBA championship. That's a good selling point for potential recruits. Gonzaga - where champions are made.

RenoZag
03-23-2016, 03:57 PM
VERY nice article Vandal. Thanks.

+ 1.

Zagceo
03-23-2016, 03:58 PM
Austin Daye has won an NBA championship. That's a good selling point for potential recruits. Gonzaga - where champions are made.

Morrisons got 2

Coach Crazy
03-23-2016, 03:59 PM
It's been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Daye

Good catch.

Jstock12
03-23-2016, 03:59 PM
Morrisons got 2

Wow. Interesting. While John Stockton has 0...

Coach Crazy
03-23-2016, 04:02 PM
Austin Daye has won an NBA championship. That's a good selling point for potential recruits. Gonzaga - where champions are made.

I just don't see Austin as someone that was really synonymous with this program. And he was drafted back in '09, when most of these kids wouldn't have really been paying attention to the 15th player in the draft. Sabonis is so much much more visable, comes from basketball royalty, and at a time when we are seeing a strong recruiting advancement for Gonzaga basketball.

Jstock12
03-23-2016, 04:12 PM
I just don't see Austin as someone that was really synonymous with this program. And he was drafted back in '09, when most of these kids wouldn't have really been paying attention to the 15th player in the draft. Sabonis is so much much more visable, comes from basketball royalty, and at a time when we are seeing a strong recruiting advancement for Gonzaga basketball.

Yeah, my post was a failed attempt at irony.

Coach Crazy
03-23-2016, 04:24 PM
Yeah, my post was a failed attempt at irony.

My bad, bro. Should have asked for clarification. At least you didn't forget that Austin Daye had been drafted as a sophomore, homie.

zag944
03-23-2016, 04:41 PM
Turiaf won a ring with the Heat as well in 2012. Basically we should just be guaranteeing potential recruits that if they sign here they will one day win an NBA Championship.

Fonebone
03-23-2016, 05:38 PM
Family Money. In my profession I have dealt with lots of families with money, and it is not a correct assumption that if the parents have money their kids will have access to it. Often that is the case, but often it is not. Most parents want their kids to make their own way, and many feel that access to family money actually hurts their kids initiative. Often there is some access over time, but I have seen some cases where wealthy parents decide that their kids will NEVER get any money from them. In my experience that is an extreeme example, but I have seen it happen. Not because they were mad at their kids, they just felt it was harmful to give help their kids that way. The point is, when I see the comments that some 20 year old "does not need the money" its an assumption that very well might not be true.

Mr Vulture
03-23-2016, 05:59 PM
I truly hope we never have a one and done in the program. I think these guys set programs back in most cases, unless you're Kentucky that is. Even then, the only won the title once with their philosophy. We don't have anyone coming in that is one and done currently and this may be our best class ever down the road.

sonuvazag
03-23-2016, 06:00 PM
Family Money. In my profession I have dealt with lots of families with money, and it is not a correct assumption that if the parents have money their kids will have access to it. Often that is the case, but often it is not. Most parents want their kids to make their own way, and many feel that access to family money actually hurts their kids initiative. Often there is some access over time, but I have seen some cases where wealthy parents decide that their kids will NEVER get any money from them. In my experience that is an extreeme example, but I have seen it happen. Not because they were mad at their kids, they just felt it was harmful to give help their kids that way. The point is, when I see the comments that some 20 year old "does not need the money" its an assumption that very well might not be true.

Let's just say his safety net is strong. Plus he'll be a pro making good money in almost any likely scenario.

Zagsker
03-23-2016, 06:14 PM
I truly hope we never have a one and done in the program. I think these guys set programs back in most cases, unless you're Kentucky that is. Even then, the only won the title once with their philosophy. We don't have anyone coming in that is one and done currently and this may be our best class ever down the road.

I disagree to a point....the right 1 and done can work. With our leadership I trust they vet a potential 1 and done well

Fonebone
03-23-2016, 06:18 PM
Agreed. Almost always the family is a safety net.

Zags_Fanatic
03-23-2016, 07:28 PM
Family Money. In my profession I have dealt with lots of families with money, and it is not a correct assumption that if the parents have money their kids will have access to it. Often that is the case, but often it is not. Most parents want their kids to make their own way, and many feel that access to family money actually hurts their kids initiative. Often there is some access over time, but I have seen some cases where wealthy parents decide that their kids will NEVER get any money from them. In my experience that is an extreeme example, but I have seen it happen. Not because they were mad at their kids, they just felt it was harmful to give help their kids that way. The point is, when I see the comments that some 20 year old "does not need the money" its an assumption that very well might not be true.

Don't forget that Sabonis passed up a Unicaja Malaga contract worth 600k+ Euros to play college ball at GU. If he had no access to family money at all that likely would not have happened.

gonzagafan62
03-23-2016, 07:34 PM
Gonzaga sending a sophomore (and sometime in the near future, a freshman) is very much another step for this program.

We already did the sophomore thing. Daye

EDIT: didn't see the post above. My apologies

Zagsker
03-23-2016, 07:51 PM
Don't forget that Sabonis passed up a Unicaja Malaga contract worth 600k+ Euros to play college ball at GU. If he had no access to family money at all that likely would not have happened.

Medulla oblongata?

That's my 'Merica post of the week

jazzdelmar
03-23-2016, 08:02 PM
A Division I coach has told me that Collins is a one and done.

Zagdawg
03-23-2016, 08:04 PM
If hes playing behind Sabonis/Big K ----probably not.

Goshzagit
03-23-2016, 10:14 PM
A Division I coach has told me that Collins is a one and done.


An elite talent, no doubt.

However, Collins is far from an 'one and done'. D1 coaches get hyped up like many, and many guess/project wrong.

Collins could be early entry, but a long way to go. He's a hard worker, great attributes, terrific skills, but his footwork isn't close to being polished enough, nor is his body.

He's a poor man's Sabonis with more natural athleticism.

Remember, Fran Franchilla stated Sabonis would have been a 5*, McDonald's AA player in the States. Looks to be spot on, yet still not one and done. Not many are anymore. And the smart ones don't go when they are projected 35th as freshman.

Point is, Collins still struggles in games at the HS level. As good as he is and will be, he doesn't exude domimant, next level qualities...yet. lots of growth and development ahead of him.

I feel he's a major player out of the gate, a likely starter, but will be a 3-year player for GU.

23dpg
03-24-2016, 12:22 AM
A Division I coach has told me that Collins is a one and done.

Interesting if true. It seems premature to guess one way or another at this stage.

zagfan24
03-24-2016, 07:11 AM
Family Money. In my profession I have dealt with lots of families with money, and it is not a correct assumption that if the parents have money their kids will have access to it. Often that is the case, but often it is not. Most parents want their kids to make their own way, and many feel that access to family money actually hurts their kids initiative. Often there is some access over time, but I have seen some cases where wealthy parents decide that their kids will NEVER get any money from them. In my experience that is an extreeme example, but I have seen it happen. Not because they were mad at their kids, they just felt it was harmful to give help their kids that way. The point is, when I see the comments that some 20 year old "does not need the money" its an assumption that very well might not be true.

While this is very true, family money also means that a kid doesn't need to leave to support his family. That's not the case for a lot of college players, many of whom can't wait to get their family into their own home, out of a better neighborhood, or into a comfortable life.

Zagger
03-24-2016, 07:29 AM
While this is very true, family money also means that a kid doesn't need to leave to support his family. That's not the case for a lot of college players, many of whom can't wait to get their family into their own home, out of a better neighborhood, or into a comfortable life.

Very good point. I hadn't put it all in that perspective. Thanks for taking my blinders off. I can see how impatience could be a necessity. I know what you meant by "out of a better neighborhood" but it got me to thinking ..... at what point do we decide to stay and make our own neighborhoods better and (or) do we necessarily move to "better" neighborhoods? Yeah, this is a bb forum and not a social consciousness, kum ba yah, thread. Lots of factors to be taken in and considered by an athlete in moving from college to pro. I suppose their coaches/schools give them good guidance.

vandalzag
03-24-2016, 08:02 AM
A Division I coach has told me that Collins is a one and done.

Of all people I would not guess this type of hyperbole from you. You must have felt like livening up the board.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4001/4477146537_8b5f1389c1_b.jpg

Coach Crazy
03-24-2016, 08:07 AM
A Division I coach has told me that Collins is a one and done.

I think he has that potential on a team where he has a larger role. Kentucky has already demonstrated that the right equation of potential, athleticism, and physical makeup, etc., can work with limited minutes if the efficiency numbers are there. In terms of the one and done. But I don't think Zach will have the role that will get him to that point.

If he were, though. I would be very happy with that. He's got the talent and the physical makeup to do it.

Alum08
03-24-2016, 09:23 AM
Very good point. I hadn't put it all in that perspective. Thanks for taking my blinders off. I can see how impatience could be a necessity. I know what you meant by "out of a better neighborhood" but it got me to thinking ..... at what point do we decide to stay and make our own neighborhoods better and (or) do we necessarily move to "better" neighborhoods? Yeah, this is a bb forum and not a social consciousness, kum ba yah, thread. Lots of factors to be taken in and considered by an athlete in moving from college to pro. I suppose their coaches/schools give them good guidance.

I have lived in some terrible places and I simply don't think it's worth it to waste your life trying to improve a neighborhood where the people living there obviously have no respect for it. Most aren't living there by choice anyways. The depths to which some neighborhoods have sunk would shock most people living in the NW. It takes a whole lot more than one former resident to turn things around. I think it would be much wiser to find a neighborhood that is poised to turnaround and become self-supporting and invest your resources there even if you may not have grown up there.

Fonebone
03-24-2016, 11:48 AM
While this is very true, family money also means that a kid doesn't need to leave to support his family. That's not the case for a lot of college players, many of whom can't wait to get their family into their own home, out of a better neighborhood, or into a comfortable life.


Very good point.

BULLDOG#1
03-24-2016, 12:32 PM
A Division I coach has told me that Collins is a one and done.

Players intent on being a one and done do not come to GU.

jagwalkley
03-24-2016, 02:35 PM
Have these people even watched Sabonis play? He doesn't have a mid-range game? How many times have I seen Sabonis shoot a jumper in the key? Geez!

I love the kid like all of us.As long as he is not greedy and doesn't need the money,why give up the fun you can never get back in the pros. He does not have a lot of long arm skill,needs to shoot lots more mid-range shots.One more year and he will still be under 20.Crazy to just want money.

Zagceo
03-24-2016, 02:45 PM
KenPom has Domas #6 on his POY stats

jagwalkley
03-24-2016, 02:45 PM
I can appreciate your logic; however, Buddy Hield will be a lottery pick this year and he is a senior. His stock went up immeasurably from his junior year...it could be said that staying at GU one more year could do wonders for his draft status also, he loves being a college student and he doesn't need the money. I still believe Austin Daye should have stayed one more year and matured physically and mentally...imo

One more year for Austin Daye and he may still be playing.Three years really helps them mature and be ready,for the grind.No real fun,just $'s

drnoe
03-24-2016, 05:03 PM
At the early Feb. LMU game, I was chatting w/ another fan at the game & he asked me about Sabonis. I immediately said that he needs another year. At the time, the GU guards were still playing far from their optimal level. I have changed my mind, especially in light of his post season performance. The guy is a tenacious rebounder & a reliable finisher against good competition. The improved guard play has made him an even better player. DS has remarkable upside. That's not to say he wouldn't benefit from another year, but he certainly wouldn't be pissing it all away by declaring early... He could handle it. I pray that he does return, though, because his junior season could be one for the ages... I'm talking POY. A team with Karno, Sabonis, Perkins, Melson & all the new guys would be an absolute powerhouse... on paper, at least, the best Zags team ever. Man, a guy can dream, huh?

bigblahla
03-24-2016, 05:33 PM
Thank God Domas has a good head on his shoulders and parents who love him....if you were to ask him...can you learn more at Gonzaga...do you think he would say no? He's not as good as gone and it ain't happening...he will come back because he knows he can improve his game even more...it's not the money it's the love of the game and being able to play it to the best of his ability....you do play against the best competition in the world in the NBA....but he's already played in the 2nd best professional league in the world, he's already turned down big bucks to come to Gonzaga...the NBA is not where you learn your trade...just ask Austin Daye.....Domas knows he has more to learn and has stated such as recently as this past weekend.....if Shem comes back Domas will be by his side and if we're lucky and the stars align they may be coming back to defend a national championship...

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

strikenowhere
03-24-2016, 07:11 PM
Thank God Domas has a good head on his shoulders and parents who love him....if you were to ask him...can you learn more at Gonzaga...do you think he would say no? He's not as good as gone and it ain't happening...he will come back because he knows he can improve his game even more...it's not the money it's the love of the game and being able to play it to the best of his ability....you do play against the best competition in the world in the NBA....but he's already played in the 2nd best professional league in the world, he's already turned down big bucks to come to Gonzaga...the NBA is not where you learn your trade...just ask Austin Daye.....Domas knows he has more to learn and has stated such as recently as this past weekend.....if Shem comes back Domas will be by his side and if we're lucky and the stars align they may be coming back to defend a national championship...

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

I think the one area he's going to want to work on next year is 3-pt shooting. He's shown occasional glimpses, but Wiltjer was occupying that stretch 4 position. Next year, if Karnowski returns, he'll be freed up to roam the perimeter a little more and show off his range, which would only improve his draft position.

Jstock12
03-24-2016, 08:30 PM
I think the one area he's going to want to work on next year is 3-pt shooting. He's shown occasional glimpses, but Wiltjer was occupying that stretch 4 position. Next year, if Karnowski returns, he'll be freed up to roam the perimeter a little more and show off his range, which would only improve his draft position.

If he showed that he has a 3PT range on a much bigger sample than this year, he'd sky-rocket in the draft. NBA GMs would salivate at a thought of a mobile rebounding machine with good a IQ & motor that can play defense and shoot threes. And pass the ball. And score in the post. And shoot free-throws. Aside from limited athletic tools (leaping ability and length) there wouldn't really be anything he can't do on the floor as a big.

Zags_Fanatic
03-25-2016, 09:43 AM
Sabonis moves up to #9 in nbadraft.net mock. 2 spots above a certain player whose name inexplicably rhymes with "turtle"...http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

Jstock12
03-25-2016, 09:49 AM
Sabonis moves up to #9 in nbadraft.net mock. 2 spots above a certain player whose name inexplicably rhymes with "turtle"...http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

If I remember correctly, nbadraft.net always had him very high (too high IMO). Draftexpress.com is probably a more reliable source based on previous drafts.

TexasZagFan
03-25-2016, 09:51 AM
Sabonis moves up to #9 in nbadraft.net mock. 2 spots above a certain player whose name inexplicably rhymes with "turtle"...http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

I'd rather have DS than Ben Simmons, who basically slept through his one year in college. Sure, he may be talented, but he's not going to give you a consistent effort.

Jstock12
03-25-2016, 09:55 AM
I'd rather have DS than Ben Simmons, who basically slept through his one year in college. Sure, he may be talented, but he's not going to give you a consistent effort.

Following NBA/draft for years I've noticed that this little thing called effort/motor very often is the difference between: either player making it in the NBA and carving out a career OR becoming a bust.

TexasZagFan
03-25-2016, 10:03 AM
Sabonis moves up to #9 in nbadraft.net mock. 2 spots above a certain player whose name inexplicably rhymes with "turtle"...http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

Worst news I've received in over a week. ;)

CDC84
03-25-2016, 10:18 AM
nbadraft.net is a crock. They've had players going in the lottery in their final mock that ended up way out of the lottery.

Sabonis is at #19 with draftexpress.com...it's the only mock I pay any attention to

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/

TexasZagFan
03-25-2016, 10:22 AM
nbadraft.net is a crock. They've had players going in the lottery in their final mock that ended up way out of the lottery.

Sabonis is at #19 with draftexpress.com...it's the only mock I pay any attention to

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/

Better news, I'd sure love for DS and Karno to be the Twin Towers for next year.

rennis
03-25-2016, 10:46 AM
I'd rather have DS than Ben Simmons, who basically slept through his one year in college. Sure, he may be talented, but he's not going to give you a consistent effort.

While I understand the perspective, put it in a slightly different light. Imagine if Ben Simmons played for Duke and had the same season. No one would be questioning his draft position.

Then put Ingram on LSU's squad - is he even a lottery pick at that point?

(heard this argument this morning on M&M)

Zagceo
03-25-2016, 11:19 AM
I do wonder if Domas will ever see "eye to eye" with his dad one day. Rare air

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/image_zpsqlzxy7z2.jpeg

CDC84
03-25-2016, 11:55 AM
Honestly, except for the injury thing (which I am sure he has big time insurance for), there really is no advantage to Sabonis coming out this year or next year. He's ready right now, he'll be ready next year. He's going to get to a second contract and have a long career in the association.

LongIslandZagFan
03-25-2016, 11:58 AM
I do wonder if Domas will ever see "eye to eye" with his dad one day. Rare air

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/image_zpsqlzxy7z2.jpeg

Kristaps! Sweet pic!

webspinnre
03-25-2016, 12:00 PM
Honestly, except for the injury thing (which I am sure he has big time insurance for), there really is no advantage to Sabonis coming out this year or next year. He's ready right now, he'll be ready next year. He's going to get to a second contract and have a long career in the association.

Not following the NBA too closely, what's the draft situation look like? Is this year's class stronger or weaker than next year's class?

Hoopaholic
03-25-2016, 12:15 PM
While I understand the perspective, put it in a slightly different light. Imagine if Ben Simmons played for Duke and had the same season. No one would be questioning his draft position.

Then put Ingram on LSU's squad - is he even a lottery pick at that point?

(heard this argument this morning on M&M)


Simmons and his half baked attitude would not have lasted on duke team

Meanwhile Ingram approach probably would have been good for 3-4 more wins for Lou and tournament birth

CDC84
03-25-2016, 12:38 PM
Not following the NBA too closely, what's the draft situation look like? Is this year's class stronger or weaker than next year's class?

The draft class next year is much stronger because the incoming recruiting class is stronger. There will be numerous one and dones next year. Maybe DS can get into the lottery this year, but maybe next year he drops a few spots. I don't think it's really going to matter greatly because he's a can't miss prospect that will have longevity in the league. And he just doesn't have the financial need to bail that other kids do. That being said, I have no idea what he will do. I totally expect him to test the waters. Anyone who can should.

sittingon50
03-25-2016, 02:06 PM
And if he drops (in the 1st round) he would normally be going to a better team.