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View Full Version : purely hypothetical--what if Karno hadn't gotten injured?



seacatfan
03-20-2016, 09:42 AM
Losing the big guy was a big blow this year. Probably cost them several key OOC games. Took a long time for the team to adjust to playing without him. But finally late in the season, they figured it out and made a huge step forward. Watching them destroy Utah last night, I couldn't help but wonder if they would've reached the same heights without the injury? Not at all meant as a knock on Karno, but they had to figure out a completely different way to play, with a really short rotation, and in the end it is working beautifully. Just food for thought.

Bogozags
03-20-2016, 09:51 AM
Losing the big guy was a big blow this year. Probably cost them several key OOC games. Took a long time for the team to adjust to playing without him. But finally late in the season, they figured it out and made a huge step forward. Watching them destroy Utah last night, I couldn't help but wonder if they would've reached the same heights without the injury? Not at all meant as a knock on Karno, but they had to figure out a completely different way to play, with a really short rotation, and in the end it is working beautifully. Just food for thought.

I have said this before, I believe GU might well have had just the one loss to Texas A&M and wouldn't have lost any other games.

KW would have been able to rest more and we would have been devastating with both PK and DS on the court at the same time...

PK would have solidified the middle and AZ, UCLA and SMU would not have had a free lane in which to work...SMC and BYU wouldn't have been able to defend PK.

At the beginning of the season, I actually believed we could have been undefeated IF the guards could have jelled but they didn't, we lost six games after Texas A&M but recovered and have now won seven straight...

My guess is that both PK and DS return for next season and this team will have incredible experience and talent and depending on the schedule, we could have a better year than last season...

gonzagafan62
03-20-2016, 09:52 AM
I'm not glad he got injured but I'm glad to have this opportunity. Everyone is doubting us and its lead to great tournament games. I'm not sure that we are in this position with the way these tourney games have gone. Just blessed to be where we are now. And it's looking like we get Shem next year so we will still be good.

We are playing with a controlled rage and a team that's just waiting to explode. These guys wanna prove the world that they are a top 5 team in the country. I believe that these kids have a lot more basketball left.

Go zags!

Ezag
03-20-2016, 10:02 AM
In the beginning, the main issue was with the guards and as Emac and Few said in the presser "they didn't listen" (at the beginning of the season). We might have one or two less losses but no where near undefeated

seacatfan
03-20-2016, 10:03 AM
There's something to be said for the way they've been playing with their back against the wall starting with the WCC tourney, and they've kept it going. They've gone back to being the hunter and not the hunted, seems like that hasn't been the case in a long time.

Jstock12
03-20-2016, 10:05 AM
Would Domas have emerged as much as he has? I don't know. This is a hard hypothetical to answer.

gonzagafan62
03-20-2016, 10:07 AM
Would Domas have emerged as much as he has? I don't know. This is a hard hypothetical to answer.

Not only this but would the guards have emerged without Karnowski going down? I think Donas has been playing much better (if it's possible) since Ryan Edwards had that injury too.

john montana
03-20-2016, 10:08 AM
We would be a national title favorite by now. He is that important. The team is playing great but adding pk would be unreal.

seacatfan
03-20-2016, 10:08 AM
Would Domas have emerged as much as he has? I don't know. This is a hard hypothetical to answer.

I didn't say it, but that was in the back of my mind. It was a brief experiment, but the big 3 on the court together didn't work well. So if you can't play them all together, who sits?

seacatfan
03-20-2016, 10:09 AM
Not only this but would the guards have emerged without Karnowski going down? I think Donas has been playing much better (if it's possible) since Ryan Edwards had that injury too.

That's what I was getting at. They had to reinvent themselves. It was a painful process, but in the end, it looks pretty amazing.

Zags11
03-20-2016, 11:04 AM
I have said this before, I believe GU might well have had just the one loss to Texas A&M and wouldn't have lost any other games.

KW would have been able to rest more and we would have been devastating with both PK and DS on the court at the same time...

PK would have solidified the middle and AZ, UCLA and SMU would not have had a free lane in which to work...SMC and BYU wouldn't have been able to defend PK.

At the beginning of the season, I actually believed we could have been undefeated IF the guards could have jelled but they didn't, we lost six games after Texas A&M but recovered and have now won seven straight...

My guess is that both PK and DS return for next season and this team will have incredible experience and talent and depending on the schedule, we could have a better year than last season...

This. My brother and I have constantly said this

MontanaCoyote
03-20-2016, 02:01 PM
Losing the big guy was a big blow this year. Probably cost them several key OOC games. Took a long time for the team to adjust to playing without him. But finally late in the season, they figured it out and made a huge step forward. Watching them destroy Utah last night, I couldn't help but wonder if they would've reached the same heights without the injury? Not at all meant as a knock on Karno, but they had to figure out a completely different way to play, with a really short rotation, and in the end it is working beautifully. Just food for thought.

Well, it was what it was and it is what it is and all is well with the Zags. Who really knows what might have been? All I can say is that I think a way would have been found to effectively utilize all 3 of our Big's and that our guards would have
found their mojo as well. It would have taken a while, sure, but a way would have been found and we would have been just as good(even better if that's possible) as we are right now with fewer losses.

We have New Big's coming in next year. If DS and PK return ( keeping my figures crossed) we'll have the "problem" of how to play all our Big's. That's a problem who wouldn't like to have!

roxdoc
03-20-2016, 02:45 PM
While it was a terrible blow to loose Karno, I don't think we would have reached where we are if he was still on board. Things would have continued with the one dimensional, oh so predictable "feed the post at all cost" season plan. The staff was forced to make a change and to go another direction which included among other things to lighten up on the reins a bit. Do you think any of our guards are looking over their shoulder now, timid, unsure? The guys are now confident, loose and having fun. Think there is a bit of a lesson here.

All that said I sure hope that Karno can have a good recovery and that he elects to spend another year with us!

DixieZag
03-20-2016, 03:14 PM
While it was a terrible blow to loose Karno, I don't think we would have reached where we are if he was still on board. Things would have continued with the one dimensional, oh so predictable "feed the post at all cost" season plan. The staff was forced to make a change and to go another direction which included among other things to lighten up on the reins a bit. Do you think any of our guards are looking over their shoulder now, timid, unsure? The guys are now confident, loose and having fun. Think there is a bit of a lesson here.

All that said I sure hope that Karno can have a good recovery and that he elects to spend another year with us!

Few himself said as much. I can't recall the interview, but he admitted that even the staff had gotten too locked into "feeding the post" and getting it down low, next thing you know, you've got guards that aren't really in the game when losing to BYU at home, just continually watching KW and DS fight for it.

We'd definitely be better now with Karno, and we would have won more games throughout the year, but I do not believe our guards would have gelled and become the weapon that they have. The days of hearing "Their guard play is weak" are over.

Hoopaholic
03-20-2016, 03:24 PM
It was a huge blow
If he had stayed healthy I believe we would have seen the development of guards in a quicker manner as opponents would have forced our guards to step up even more as they packed it in against our two bigs

Also believe we would have been an even better defensive team as we would have had a shot blocker something we missed so we changed our close out angles of attack and could have gambled for steals knowing the backside was covered

So hope he comes back

Zagdawg
03-20-2016, 07:48 PM
If we had Big K all season ---we would have been a 2-3 seed in Spokane for the dance--used our typical 3 big rotation--lots of opportunities for our guards to gets assists and bang home threes.

Big K takes a ton of pressure off our guards--his defensive presence inside allows them to play more aggressive defense because they know they have the big guy behind them guarding the rim.

Not having Big K forces Sabonis to play out of position at the 5--a position he will not play in the NBA.

Loss of his leadership on the floor was huge also.

More blocks/better D from both Sabonis and KW because they are not as worried about getting too many fouls early.

Can't take out a top 10 NCAA center and expect things to be better for the team--just happy the team finally figured out how to make it work without Big K on the floor.

MontanaCoyote
03-20-2016, 09:40 PM
If we had Big K all season ---we would have been a 2-3 seed in Spokane for the dance--used our typical 3 big rotation--lots of opportunities for our guards to gets assists and bang home threes.

Big K takes a ton of pressure off our guards--his defensive presence inside allows them to play more aggressive defense because they know they have the big guy behind them guarding the rim.

Not having Big K forces Sabonis to play out of position at the 5--a position he will not play in the NBA.

Loss of his leadership on the floor was huge also.

More blocks/better D from both Sabonis and KW because they are not as worried about getting too many fouls early.

Can't take out a top 10 NCAA center and expect things to be better for the team--just happy the team finally figured out how to make it work without Big K on the floor.

Right On! His leadership is as big as he is. I'm a wide eyed fan and just love the guy and admit to some bias, but I think he makes the team better sitting on the bench in street cloths! Really!

U Zig, I Zag
03-20-2016, 10:39 PM
Miss you PK!

We would be better, in my opinion. The guards coming on as of late is not a product of 'having to', it's a product of time and the timeline was pushed up. KW and Domas draw so much attention they created the space and time for the guards to find their way. If PK is here all year and the other bigs get rest and Edwards gets to practice with Shem all year (a guy he is more like versus KW and Domas) then that timeline is extended. The guards have more time to figure it out, more time to come into their own because the entire game doesn't depend on it. The Bigs would be carrying (even more) of the load in those earlier games.