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Reborn
03-11-2016, 06:38 AM
Mr Lunardi used the BPI rather than the RPI. Gonzaga is 23 in the BPI. We'd most likely be playing in Spokane.

I have heard more talk this year by the basketball analysts about how the RPI is outdated than ever before. Yet Joe Lundardi continues to use the RPI, and every time I see him telling us why he puts so and so on the Bubble he always talks about the RPI. One other thing I don't like about how he explains things is he never focuses on bad losses. To him it's all about good wins and RPI. I thought Dick Vittale did a great job of challenging Lunardi for having both Gonzaga and St Mary's on the Bubble. I saw a bracket while surfing ESPN news that was built by using the BPI and it had gonzaga as a six seed. That was yesterday when Gonzaga was #24 on the BPI. Today they are 23. The whole bracket looked so much better than Joe Lunardi's. I imagine that they both have the same teams (maybe) but just have these teams seeded much differently. And it is true that Lunardi is very good at predicting who will be IN the tourney, but no so good at predicting the seed.

It will be very interesting to see what the Committee does. I know they DO use many tools including the BPI. So GU really could get a much better seed than an 11.

Go Zags!!!

willandi
03-11-2016, 06:47 AM
Mr Lunardi used the BPI rather than the RPI. Gonzaga is 23 in the BPI. We'd most likely be playing in Spokane.

I have heard more talk this year by the basketball analysts about how the RPI is outdated than ever before. Yet Joe Lundardi continues to use the RPI, and every time I see him telling us why he puts so and so on the Bubble he always talks about the RPI. One other thing I don't like about how he explains things is he never focuses on bad losses. To him it's all about good wins and RPI. I thought Dick Vittale did a great job of challenging Lunardi for having both Gonzaga and St Mary's on the Bubble. I saw a bracket while surfing ESPN news that was built by using the BPI and it had gonzaga as a six seed. That was yesterday when Gonzaga was #24 on the BPI. Today they are 23. The whole bracket looked so much better than Joe Lunardi's. I imagine that they both have the same teams (maybe) but just have these teams seeded much differently. And it is true that Lunardi is very good at predicting who will be IN the tourney, but no so good at predicting the seed.

It will be very interesting to see what the Committee does. I know they DO use many tools including the BPI. So GU really could get a much better seed than an 11.

Go Zags!!!

I agree wholeheartedly! Blowhardi insists on using RPI despite the fact that the committee says they only use it as a tool for seeding. I also don't understand how the committee can believe that Syracuse losses while Boeheim was suspended should be excused. They want to treat the suspension like an injured player that cam back. I see a big difference.

DixieZag
03-11-2016, 06:49 AM
I am so spoiled by consistently winning first round games that I almost tend to overlook the first game "seeding/match-up" in favor of looking first to the second round game. That's partly why I love the idea of being an 11 seed (or a six but that sounds just weird). I feel great about our guys rolling some middling BCS 6 seed. I could come to see the error of my way, but we'll see.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
03-11-2016, 07:51 AM
My experience following this stuff has told me this:

Never, ever believe what the Committee says in public. The evidence shows they're beginning to incorporate BPI and KenPom and better metrics, but RPI still seems to be the driving factor — both in terms of selection and seeding.

Coach Crazy
03-11-2016, 07:58 AM
Lunardi has to create click-bait. If he started talking about BPI, KenPom, Sagarin, it would require the basest level of fans to actually think. That doesn't generate ratings. If Lunardi actually buys his own snake oil, then I feel sorry for him.

TacomaZAG
03-11-2016, 08:06 AM
It will be very interesting to see what the Committee does. I know they DO use many tools including the BPI. So GU really could get a much better seed than an 11.

Go Zags!!!

Bornie:

While I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying, I would be careful what you wish for...............

Given this season (no good wins, no bad losses), anything from a 10-12 seed would be great, we just don't want the 8/9 game. I am afraid that, given the Committee's history of screwing the ZAGS, we are looking at the 8/9 "death seed", probably back east at some early morning (east coast time) tipoff. Hope I'm wrong..........

Go ZAGS

Coach Crazy
03-11-2016, 08:58 AM
Gonzaga's profile is better grouped. In fact, teams that were close to Gonzaga's shoes, last year, are Arkansas (KP) which had an 5 seed, Maryland (BPI) which had an 4 seed, and Texas
(Sagarin) which had an 11 seed.

Maryland aggregate grouping:
BPI: #28
KP: #32
Sag: #27

Texas:
BPI: #27
KP: #25
Sag: #24

Arkansas:
BPI: #21
KP: #29
Sag: #28

I need to go through and get the updated version and do a complete resume' comparison. Where we are going to get a little bit of a hit in seeding is the "Wins against teams in the tournament", "Wins against teams in consideration", and RPI.

jazzdelmar
03-11-2016, 09:45 AM
Duke has lost TEN games and he still has them as a 4. Watch in horror as their bracket unfolds on Sunday. Happens every year. It's a rigged game.....

scrooner
03-11-2016, 09:52 AM
I am so over Lunardi.

ProjectMKUltra5
03-11-2016, 09:55 AM
Mr Lunardi used the BPI rather than the RPI. Gonzaga is 23 in the BPI. We'd most likely be playing in Spokane.

I have heard more talk this year by the basketball analysts about how the RPI is outdated than ever before. Yet Joe Lundardi continues to use the RPI, and every time I see him telling us why he puts so and so on the Bubble he always talks about the RPI. One other thing I don't like about how he explains things is he never focuses on bad losses. To him it's all about good wins and RPI. I thought Dick Vittale did a great job of challenging Lunardi for having both Gonzaga and St Mary's on the Bubble. I saw a bracket while surfing ESPN news that was built by using the BPI and it had gonzaga as a six seed. That was yesterday when Gonzaga was #24 on the BPI. Today they are 23. The whole bracket looked so much better than Joe Lunardi's. I imagine that they both have the same teams (maybe) but just have these teams seeded much differently. And it is true that Lunardi is very good at predicting who will be IN the tourney, but no so good at predicting the seed.

It will be very interesting to see what the Committee does. I know they DO use many tools including the BPI. So GU really could get a much better seed than an 11.

Go Zags!!!

Could you find that bracket by any chance? I'd love to see it

seacatfan
03-11-2016, 10:10 AM
My experience following this stuff has told me this:

Never, ever believe what the Committee says in public. The evidence shows they're beginning to incorporate BPI and KenPom and better metrics, but RPI still seems to be the driving factor both in terms of selection and seeding.

Ditto. There has been lip service paid towards transparency. They have some media members come in and participate in a mock selection process during the season. But I firmly believe what happens behind closed doors this weekend, they absolutely do not want the public to have knowledge about. They can list a number of factors thy use, but I think the selection process always has been and will continue to be somewhat inconsistent and variable.

Shanachie
03-11-2016, 10:11 AM
Could you find that bracket by any chance? I'd love to see it

http://haslametrics.com/ratings.php

Don't know if this is the one, but this one has both Gonzaga and St. Mary's as 6 seeds.

Links to 100+ brackets here:
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/

seacatfan
03-11-2016, 10:13 AM
Duke has lost TEN games and he still has them as a 4. Watch in horror as their bracket unfolds on Sunday. Happens every year. It's a rigged game.....

Duke wins the ACC conference tourney more often than not and gets bumped up 2 or 3 seed lines as a result. That didn't happen this year. They will still probably be overseeded, but this year shouldn't be as blatantly so as usual.

jazzdelmar
03-11-2016, 10:13 AM
Ditto. There has been lip service paid towards transparency. They have some media members come in and participate in a mock selection process during the season. But I firmly believe what happens behind closed doors this weekend, they absolutely do not want the public to have knowledge about. They can list a number of factors thy use, but I think the selection process always has been and will continue to be somewhat inconsistent and variable.

...and rigged.

ZagMan in Philly
03-11-2016, 10:40 AM
This is the one year I don't mind being 8 or 9 seeded team. All these #1 seeds are vulnerable.
Bring it on! Go Zags!!

B Wayne
03-11-2016, 11:39 AM
Could someone explain or provide a link as to the difference between RPI and BPI. I think BPI is a ESPN metric which they claim is superior to RPI. But why is it believed to be superior. Specifically, what are the differences in the formulas? Thanks. I couldn't find the answer last time I looked.:confused:

Coach Crazy
03-11-2016, 11:45 AM
Could someone explain or provide a link as to the difference between RPI and BPI. I think BPI is a ESPN metric which they claim is superior to RPI. But why is it believed to be superior. Specifically, what are the differences in the formulas? Thanks. I couldn't find the answer last time I looked.:confused:

Here are some links:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7561413/bpi-college-basketball-power-index-explained
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_Percentage_Index

RPI is not only flawed, but far less comprehensive than the metrics out there. Yes, BPI is an ESPN product...but it isn't a gimmicky aggregate. It, along with Sagarin and KenPom, provide a contextually rich landscape from which to gauge the quality and value of a team's play.

Zags11
03-11-2016, 11:57 AM
Zags a 11 seed vs 6 seed duke in Raleigh. OK,OK I'm totally joking. I believe we are on the west side of the United States. Either Spokane or Denver.

sage
03-11-2016, 12:02 PM
And how much will the HBO special have to do with GU seeding?? (read that BIG bucks HBO drama) So far, HBO could not have possibly WRITTEN a better scrip !!!

Reborn
03-11-2016, 02:36 PM
Could you find that bracket by any chance? I'd love to see it

I'm not sure I can find it because its the first time I had seen this one. I was at school and logged into to espn and I got this different site than the normal one. It was like a BPI site, and then when I scrolled down I found the seeds that were chosen for each team. Sorry....But when yu think about it they just seeded each team according to the rank given by BPI. Gonzaga was 24 on BPI yesterday so it would be logical that we'd be a 6 seed.

ProVeeZag
03-11-2016, 02:57 PM
This is the one year I don't mind being 8 or 9 seeded team. All these #1 seeds are vulnerable.
Bring it on! Go Zags!!

I'm in this camp also, this is the year where almost anything can happen. Sooner or later, you have to take on a 1 or 2 seed to get to the top. If as a 8 or 9, you can then take down a #1 seed, you start to look like King Kong going into the 2nd weekend. Really, given all the obstacles we've overcome this year, I don't care as much about the seed as I do the location we play in.

jazzdelmar
03-11-2016, 02:59 PM
And how much will the HBO special have to do with GU seeding?? (read that BIG bucks HBO drama) So far, HBO could not have possibly WRITTEN a better scrip !!!

Series has run its course. Next weeks final epi focuses on WCC.

maynard g krebs
03-11-2016, 03:02 PM
In fairness, bracket matrix now has the Zags as the last 10 seed. That's a composite of 107 different bracket projections; the ones on the page show a range of 8-11. So Lunardi isn't really out of line. On tv, he has to talk in sound bites and oversimplify.

Also, I think it's important to note that he repeatedly has said that if it were up to him, high achieving mid majors would get in ahead of middling power schools, but he's going by what he thinks the committee will do, not his own preference. He has even advocated for a minimum standard of a record over .500 in comference, including conf. tourneys, for NCAA berth.

NotoriousZ
03-11-2016, 04:50 PM
This is the one year I don't mind being 8 or 9 seeded team. All these #1 seeds are vulnerable.
Bring it on! Go Zags!!

Yep, this feild is WIDE OPEN! Still, I'll take a ten seed in Spokane, please.