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View Full Version : What is "Icing" the ball screen and why we must dictate it's action



ProjectMKUltra5
03-08-2016, 12:03 PM
First, let me give you a quick rundown of what it means to Ice (also called "Blue") a ball screen

Icing the ball screen is the act of denying the screen and thus not letting the ball handler get to the middle of the floor. When the screen comes the on ball defender attaches himself to the top side hip of the ball handler and forces him down the sideline, while the big man puts himself in posistion to help contain the ball handler. The point here is that you force the ball handler away from the screen and the middle of the floor, thus limiting it's effectiveness.

Here's a couple of examples....

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3872915/Screenshot_2014-01-16_13.36.31.jpg?_ga=1.21033789.767447581.145687101 3

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3872989/Screenshot_2014-01-16_13.51.42.jpg?_ga=1.234952839.767447581.14568710 13


This is an outstanding defense and a great way to dictate what happens with the ball screen, but it's not without its flaws. Teams with a good stretch 4 can hit the pick and pop pretty easily, and if the big man suddenly flips his screen while the defender is on the top side hip, the ball handler can snake his way back to middle of the court and make some easy plays.

So how is all of this relevant to the Zags?

After our last game against St Mary's I got into an argument (shocking I know) with a poster on SSF about our ball screen defense that game. I felt it was largely ineffective gameplan that allowed St Mary's far to many easy buckets (they shot 73% in the 2nd half). That argument had piqued my interest so I started poking around interwebz for the full games of one of the teams that had success against the Gaels (til last night, at least), Pepperdine.

And what did they do? They Iced the ball screen both games.

They won those games because they were able to contain Naar and Rahon and force Fitzner and Pineau to beat them on a consistent basis. And they did, sometimes. They're not terrible after all. But the consistent disruption of the Gaels bread and butter was enough slow them down. Rahon was 7-23 in their two regular season meatings, Naar was 7-18 and they only hit two threes between them in the two games. We can disrupt them many ways. We can Ice the screen as I've pointed out but with the small lineup we can switch more aggressively or even trap the ball handler.

In order for the Zags to win tonight it's my belief that we must dictate the terms of the ball screen, not St Mary's. We can do that many ways, icing the screen being one of them, but in no way can we be a passive participant in that action. We need to attack, and we need to make them uncomfortable.


Go damn Zags

ZAG 4 LIFE
03-08-2016, 01:17 PM
Good post, but remember the Gaels also run a lot of their pick and rolls or
Pick and pops from the center of the floor, which is problematic sometimes.
I believe "Icing" is excellent when the P & R is happening from the wing, as you can
Force the offense to play mostly on one side of the floor.
I also believe you need to mix up coverages against it... Remember Dellavedova's
Last couple of games in the kennel? Sometimes the Zags switched, and had a big
Take him when he came off the screen... Sometimes they trapped him, and made
Him pick up his dribble early... Sabonis can handle the switch, Wiltjer, not so much,
So the Gaels will likely have Wiltjer involved in the P & R a lot tonight. Whatever we
Do, we should mix in a trap once in awhile to make Rahon and Naar think, and our
Other 3 defenders have to pick off a pass to the perimeter shooters every now and
Again too. Should be a fun game.

Bogozags
03-08-2016, 01:20 PM
First, let me give you a quick rundown of what it means to Ice (also called "Blue") a ball screen

Icing the ball screen is the act of denying the screen and thus not letting the ball handler get to the middle of the floor. When the screen comes the on ball defender attaches himself to the top side hip of the ball handler and forces him down the sideline, while the big man puts himself in posistion to help contain the ball handler. The point here is that you force the ball handler away from the screen and the middle of the floor, thus limiting it's effectiveness.

Here's a couple of examples....

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3872915/Screenshot_2014-01-16_13.36.31.jpg?_ga=1.21033789.767447581.145687101 3

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3872989/Screenshot_2014-01-16_13.51.42.jpg?_ga=1.234952839.767447581.14568710 13


This is an outstanding defense and a great way to dictate what happens with the ball screen, but it's not without its flaws. Teams with a good stretch 4 can hit the pick and pop pretty easily, and if the big man suddenly flips his screen while the defender is on the top side hip, the ball handler can snake his way back to middle of the court and make some easy plays.

So how is all of this relevant to the Zags?

After our last game against St Mary's I got into an argument (shocking I know) with a poster on SSF about our ball screen defense that game. I felt it was largely ineffective gameplan that allowed St Mary's far to many easy buckets (they shot 73% in the 2nd half). That argument had piqued my interest so I started poking around interwebz for the full games of one of the teams that had success against the Gaels (til last night, at least), Pepperdine.

And what did they do? They Iced the ball screen both games.

They won those games because they were able to contain Naar and Rahon and force Fitzner and Pineau to beat them on a consistent basis. And they did, sometimes. They're not terrible after all. But the consistent disruption of the Gaels bread and butter was enough slow them down. Rahon was 7-23 in their two regular season meatings, Naar was 7-18 and they only hit two threes between them in the two games. We can disrupt them many ways. We can Ice the screen as I've pointed out but with the small lineup we can switch more aggressively or even trap the ball handler.

In order for the Zags to win tonight it's my belief that we must dictate the terms of the ball screen, not St Mary's. We can do that many ways, icing the screen being one of them, but in no way can we be a passive participant in that action. We need to attack, and we need to make them uncomfortable.


Go damn Zags

Excellent post...this has been a big problem for the Zags against SMC, AZ and SMU.

As PMKU5 clearly stated, we cannot be passive tonight...I'm sure the Staff sees the same point...

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-08-2016, 01:27 PM
That was an interesting lesson. Thanks.

Hoopaholic
03-08-2016, 02:41 PM
[QUOTE=ProjectMKUltra5;1185261]First, let me give you a quick rundown of what it means to Ice (also called "Blue") a ball screen

Icing the ball screen is the act of denying the screen and thus not letting the ball handler get to the middle of the floor. When the screen comes the on ball defender attaches himself to the top side hip of the ball handler and forces him down the sideline, while the big man puts himself in posistion to help contain the ball handler. The point here is that you force the ball handler away from the screen and the middle of the floor, thus limiting it's effectiveness.

Here's a couple of examples....

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3872915/Screenshot_2014-01-16_13.36.31.jpg?_ga=1.21033789.767447581.145687101 3

pro can get away with it as they cannot camp in the paint like you can in college...notice your positions on the court, none of the help players can be in the key

the counter to this is to take another step or two as a screener, closing the gap and now you have a perfect angled screen with the post defender buried too deep with the wrong angle to cover over the top and a ton of working room to come off the screen

the last game against SMC was our bigs did not hedge out at the right angle or right time. They did a fabulous job last night and if they do that they will not only cut off the man with the ball from getting to the hoop but will also be able to recover and provide hand in face for long three ball..........take the correct angels, ensure help side defensive rotation occurs and we will be fine.....



This is an outstanding defense and a great way to dictate what happens with the ball screen, but it's not without its flaws. Teams with a good stretch 4 can hit the pick and pop pretty easily, and if the big man suddenly flips his screen while the defender is on the top side hip, the ball handler can snake his way back to middle of the court and make some easy plays.

Bowser
03-08-2016, 02:47 PM
Cogent. Thorough. Meticulous.

zagar
03-08-2016, 03:17 PM
I agree icing should be part of the game plan, but it does leave the big man susceptible to the baseline drive. On many occasions Wiltjer has not proven himself to be quick enough to contain that dribble. If he can't, this would draw the 2nd low-post defender to help. If it arrives late it's an easy layup. If it arrives on time it's an easy pitch to the opposite corner for an open 3. If I'm Naar I'd run this on Wiltjer's side.

A second problem, it puts your bigs in a position where they're guarding guard-on-big penetration. With only two serviceable bigs we'd really feel the extra foul or two that they're likely to pick up.

SageOfZagville
03-08-2016, 03:24 PM
This subject has been a sore one to me for a long time.
At first I thought that Dellavadova was the best at setting up his defender for a screen. Now I am of the opinion that either Bennet or someone on his staff is the best teacher of the high screen and roll in College basketball. The reasons are these:
Most screens are set with the purpose of a) getting the dribbler an open shot either at the rim or an open jumper, or b) getting the screener open on a good roll to the basket. Guards on most other teams do not wait for the screen and are moving before the big actually gets there. Narr and Rahon on the other hand wait until the bigs come out and when the other teams big "shows" by forcing the screener up the floor, the screener on St Maries does not roll hard to the basket, but re-screens and forces a switch.
Once they have the switch the guards take the big to the basket or they dump it down to the big in the key with a guard covering. When help comes they find the open man for the shot. Notice tonight how many times the St Maries bigs rescreen and what havoc it causes. I used to get very frustrated when our bigs such as Sacre would be guarding Dellavadova and Samhan was posting up our guards. Our guards need to be ready for the second screen and either go under or fight across the screen. Don't Switch if at all possible. Once St Maries gets the switch, then we are at their mercy. Everyone else needs to be ready to help, but don't leave Fittzner and Hemanson open for a wide open three. I know, pretty simplistic, but I have disagreed with the way we switch these screens for a long time. If the boys bring the energy tonight we win.

Hoopaholic
03-08-2016, 03:56 PM
This subject has been a sore one to me for a long time.
At first I thought that Dellavadova was the best at setting up his defender for a screen. Now I am of the opinion that either Bennet or someone on his staff is the best teacher of the high screen and roll in College basketball. The reasons are these:
Most screens are set with the purpose of a) getting the dribbler an open shot either at the rim or an open jumper, or b) getting the screener open on a good roll to the basket. Guards on most other teams do not wait for the screen and are moving before the big actually gets there. Narr and Rahon on the other hand wait until the bigs come out and when the other teams big "shows" by forcing the screener up the floor, the screener on St Maries does not roll hard to the basket, but re-screens and forces a switch.
Once they have the switch the guards take the big to the basket or they dump it down to the big in the key with a guard covering. When help comes they find the open man for the shot. Notice tonight how many times the St Maries bigs rescreen and what havoc it causes. I used to get very frustrated when our bigs such as Sacre would be guarding Dellavadova and Samhan was posting up our guards. Our guards need to be ready for the second screen and either go under or fight across the screen. Don't Switch if at all possible. Once St Maries gets the switch, then we are at their mercy. Everyone else needs to be ready to help, but don't leave Fittzner and Hemanson open for a wide open three. I know, pretty simplistic, but I have disagreed with the way we switch these screens for a long time. If the boys bring the energy tonight we win.

They have someone on staff teaching. It starts with patience footwork and setting up your defender to use the screen
Then moves to setting the screen at correct angle according to location on court
Then moves back to ball handler to properly use screen
The ball handler must make right read at right time

Lost art in college bball

bballbeachbum
03-08-2016, 05:07 PM
great post.

SageOfZagville
03-08-2016, 07:16 PM
I was pretty nervous when Wiltjer kept switching on those screens. I need to calm down, my blood pressure is probably a bit high right now. Great job ZAGS. Welcome to the Dance.