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LongIslandZagFan
03-08-2016, 04:06 AM
You know... it doesn't make the conference look good when more than once you have top tier announcers, who call tons of games, say "That is a foul in any other league we have called". It doesn't make the conference look good when they point out blatant missed calls multiple times. Something really needs to be done about the officiating. 2/3rds of the BYU team should have fouled out by halftime the way they were hacking Sabonis.

Just plain embarrassing. If the Zags had lost that game... it would have been a travesty.

Zagsker
03-08-2016, 04:55 AM
You know... it doesn't make the conference look good when more than once you have top tier announcers, who call tons of games, say "That is a foul in any other league we have called". It doesn't make the conference look good when they point out blatant missed calls multiple times. Something really needs to be done about the officiating. 2/3rds of the BYU team should have fouled out by halftime the way they were hacking Sabonis.

Just plain embarrassing. If the Zags had lost that game... it would have been a travesty.

Don't we utilize the same official pool that the Pac 12 and MW utilizes?

GrizZAG
03-08-2016, 05:09 AM
Don't we utilize the same official pool that the Pac 12 and MW utilizes?

No. I believe the way it works is Refs are rated with a score and are paid according to their quality of officiating. Pac 12 gets the top tier and WCC gets a lower tier because of cost. Correct me if I am wrong but I think this is how it works. It shows

Will tonight be the same refs?

The way they swallowed their whistles time after time really raised some disturbing questions in that game. It was so clear over and over I could not believe it.

Birddog
03-08-2016, 05:09 AM
Dick Cartmell was on that crew and he is pretty highly regarded. I believe that this is at least the 2nd time this season that he has been on the crew of officials at a Zag game that we as fans thought was terribly called. Not saying it was his fault, just pointing out that as good as he supposedly is, it's a crew not an individual. BYU tends to bring out the worst in officials and I believe it is BYU's style of play that has much to do with it.

GrizZAG
03-08-2016, 05:14 AM
Dick Cartmell was on that crew and he is pretty highly regarded. I believe that this is at least the 2nd time this season that he has been on the crew of officials at a Zag game that we as fans thought was terribly called. Not saying it was his fault, just pointing out that as good as he supposedly is, it's a crew not an individual. BYU tends to bring out the worst in officials and I believe it is BYU's style of play that has much to do with it.

A couple of times Sabonis was fighting for his life getting hacked and mauled by multiple players around him after getting a rebound and they called jump ball. It was over the top mauling.

Zagger
03-08-2016, 06:27 AM
A couple of times Sabonis was fighting for his life getting hacked and mauled by multiple players around him after getting a rebound and they called jump ball. It was over the top mauling.
Some of us in the stands dang near headed down the stairs. WTF, when is it a jump ball when the only thing being held are the forearms???? Wiltjer had to help cool down Few at one point. I suspect Few will be having some choice words for the officiating crew before tonight's game. Kudos big time for how well Sabonis is handling these no calls. It takes a lot of character to just up and put a lid on that stuff and concentrate on the game. Sabonis rocks!

TacomaZAG
03-08-2016, 06:36 AM
You know... it doesn't make the conference look good when more than once you have top tier announcers, who call tons of games, say "That is a foul in any other league we have called". It doesn't make the conference look good when they point out blatant missed calls multiple times. Something really needs to be done about the officiating. 2/3rds of the BYU team should have fouled out by halftime the way they were hacking Sabonis.

Just plain embarrassing. If the Zags had lost that game... it would have been a travesty.

It's just an embarrassment to the conference every year when the WCC takes the national stage for the WCC Tourney and we get something better than the announcer C-team. This annual officiating joke also does not prepare the guys for the battles to come in the Dance. It really is hard to watch............

Go ZAGS

rennis
03-08-2016, 06:39 AM
Dick Cartmell was on that crew and he is pretty highly regarded. I believe that this is at least the 2nd time this season that he has been on the crew of officials at a Zag game that we as fans thought was terribly called. Not saying it was his fault, just pointing out that as good as he supposedly is, it's a crew not an individual. BYU tends to bring out the worst in officials and I believe it is BYU's style of play that has much to do with it.

This. I wouldn't want to be an official on many nights. I would never want to be an official on BYU nights.

That said, the blatant hacking of Sabonis, the missed charge on Collinsworth, and the tip jam were just terrible and there is no excuse for that kind of mediocre officiating.

TheGonzagaFactor
03-08-2016, 06:42 AM
There was one when Wiltjer was driving, you could hear the SLAP through the TV mic... jump ball LOL.

Such pathetic officiating, and unlike last Saturday in Provo, it was very one-sided last night. Should have been a 15 point win, at least.

TheGonzagaFactor
03-08-2016, 06:44 AM
The one where Austin ran Sabonis over in the post and they gave BYU the ball... that scared me. If they can get away with that kind of TRASH, we have a serious player safety issue...

Also, that flop attempt by Austin near the end was a slap in the face to the game of basketball. Disgraceful.

Zagsker
03-08-2016, 06:49 AM
The missed call on Collinsworth (charge) is not a "blown" call...that is a difficult call, we get the luxury of it being slowed down, etc...even when they first replayed it the announcers went, "meeehhhhhh", only when they went to another angle and it was slowed down (which always makes things look worse) did they agree it should have been called. Real time, depending g on angle, the way emac sold it....I could easily see it being a no call

Zagsker
03-08-2016, 06:53 AM
I agree that there were some missed calls last night. But, BYU plays aggressive down on the post, officials shouldn't guess that there is a foul just because you swarm on D. BYU had 22 fouls, GU had 13

gozagswoohoo
03-08-2016, 07:14 AM
I emailed the WCC commissioner 2 years ago after one of the WORST officiated games I'd ever seen. I basically said that nobody will ever take this conference seriously if our games continue to be reffed like that. It was a joke.

He emailed back some BS response "Thank you for your input, we strive to have the best officials out there, bla bla bla, shove it up your tail pipe". Such a joke.

TheZagPhish
03-08-2016, 07:29 AM
I emailed the WCC commissioner 2 years ago after one of the WORST officiated games I'd ever seen. I basically said that nobody will ever take this conference seriously if our games continue to be reffed like that. It was a joke.

He emailed back some BS response "Thank you for your input, we strive to have the best officials out there, bla bla bla, shove it up your tail pipe". Such a joke.

Do they pick commissioners the same way they sift out refs?

TravelinZag
03-08-2016, 07:32 AM
This. I wouldn't want to be an official on many nights. I would never want to be an official on BYU nights.

That said, the blatant hacking of Sabonis, the missed charge on Collinsworth, and the tip jam were just terrible and there is no excuse for that kind of mediocre officiating.

"Mediocre" is swallowing your whistle! You, and others on third thread cite several terrible calls against the Zags. Add in some bad calls against BYU, and the level of competence falls way below the bar for mediocre. This crew didn't just hit the bar and knock it off, they stumbled and rolled UNDER the bar. Don't know how much extra good officials would cost, but am certain that the 4.5 teams in the league who care would find it a bargain. The other teams, who share but do not generate revenue would probably veto the expenditure.

Congrats to the Zag's admirable restraint! Go Zags!

ZagOD7540
03-08-2016, 07:54 AM
It's just harsh to see some of these calls. There are 3 referees on the court. How do all 3 miss the offensive goaltending at the end of the half? Not one of those refs saw Collinsworth's arm shove McClellan? What about the missed over and back call that they missed on Collinsworth? Also, Domas does not play on roller skates-he doesn't just fall or flop. Those jump ball calls were brutal. How is Domas supposed to clear a rebound without being called for a Flagrant 1 or even a 2? He certainly isn't allowed to extend his elbows. He has to smother it like he's recovering a fumble! He was getting mauled down low. Great to see him keep his head out there. Love that kid. Let's go get Mary tonight!

Ezag
03-08-2016, 07:55 AM
I agree! It wasn't as if they missed one or two key calls, it was continuous especially through the 2nd half. The crazy thing about it is that almost all favored BYU

Zagsker
03-08-2016, 07:55 AM
I emailed the WCC commissioner 2 years ago after one of the WORST officiated games I'd ever seen. I basically said that nobody will ever take this conference seriously if our games continue to be reffed like that. It was a joke.

He emailed back some BS response "Thank you for your input, we strive to have the best officials out there, bla bla bla, shove it up your tail pipe". Such a joke.


If fans didn't piss and moan about officials on every turn I would suspect higher ups would take more notice. As it is, American culture has it to where buying a ticket or watching a game on tv makes you just as smart as the people who train and actually know the rules to the game, thus making any disagreement of a call completely valid and obviously they are trying to screw your team.

Zagsker
03-08-2016, 08:00 AM
I agree! It wasn't as if they missed one or two key calls, it was continuous especially through the 2nd half. The crazy thing about it is that almost all favored BYU

The foul count in the 2nd half was

BYU-15
GU-7

SCU
03-08-2016, 08:03 AM
Neutral observer-

What a horrendous job by the officials, occasionally both ways, but certainly GU got a raw deal more often that not.

Many plays where I was saying outloud- "that was a foul, and that was a foul, and THATS the one you call?"

LongIslandZagFan
03-08-2016, 08:10 AM
The foul count in the 2nd half was

BYU-15
GU-7

Should have been BYU 35-40

sonuvazag
03-08-2016, 08:13 AM
I thought Musburger made an interesting point when he suggested Few was a willing participant in the let-em-play style because it gave him a better chance to keep his big men in the game.

CDC84
03-08-2016, 08:15 AM
What's puzzling about last night's game is that it was Dick Cartmell's crew. He's a 5-time Final 4 official, and his guys are regarded by just about everybody as one of the best crews on the west coast.

SWZag
03-08-2016, 08:23 AM
Should have been BYU 35-40

At a minimum.

LongIslandZagFan
03-08-2016, 08:26 AM
Neutral observer-

What a horrendous job by the officials, occasionally both ways, but certainly GU got a raw deal more often that not.

Many plays where I was saying outloud- "that was a foul, and that was a foul, and THATS the one you call?"

Thanks... Glad for independent validation there. I was saying almost the exact same thing last night.

zagfan24
03-08-2016, 08:26 AM
The foul count in the 2nd half was

BYU-15
GU-7

That's what BYU counts on. Referees will err on the side of evenness with foul calls. BYU plays to make the discrepancy large enough that the refs will eventually stop making calls against them. After they got into the double bonus quickly in the second half, they missed at least 5 obvious hacks on Sabonis.

sittingon50
03-08-2016, 09:30 AM
What's puzzling about last night's game is that it was Dick Cartmell's crew. He's a 5-time Final 4 official, and his guys are regarded by just about everybody as one of the best crews on the west coast.

They don't keep crews together game to game.

FuManShoes
03-08-2016, 09:45 AM
I have a very good idea what this guy is smoking
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2016/mar/08/no-matter-who-playing-great-college-basketball-game-great-college-basketball-game/





• Want to know another reason why the game was so much fun to watch? The officials did a great job keeping control of the action without being obtrusive. A big part of that is because the West Coast’s best official was on the game, namely Dick Cartmell from Richland. He, Randy McCall and – it pains me to write this because I’m not a fan – Verne Harris made mistakes, sure (the missed offensive goaltending call at the end of the first half really stands out), but for the most part let the players play while still blowing enough whistles to keep the game from become too physical. There was a flow to the contest that made it enjoyable to watch. The western conferences – Pac-12, Mountain West, Big West, WCC – have reached beyond their borders recently in an attempt to upgrade the officiating. They’ve raised their per-game payments to attract the better officials to their games. And they’ve instituted more evaluation, training and education. All laudable. But there is one move that assures a well-officiated game: Put Cartmell on it.

CDC84
03-08-2016, 10:00 AM
They don't keep crews together game to game.

I realize that, but his crews are usually pretty good. The GU staff would much rather have him officiating than some other people in league. I saw a documentary on Cartmell, and they watch game tape and extensively prepare for each of the teams to get a handle on what kind of offensive and defensive systems they run, how physical they are, etc. They go into games knowing what to expect and look out for.

Vanzagger
03-08-2016, 10:28 AM
Well said

Vanzagger
03-08-2016, 10:28 AM
That's what BYU counts on. Referees will err on the side of evenness with foul calls. BYU plays to make the discrepancy large enough that the refs will eventually stop making calls against them. After they got into the double bonus quickly in the second half, they missed at least 5 obvious hacks on Sabonis.

Well said