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View Full Version : Our leading scorer had 9 points and we won by 26, who's ready for some crow?



thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2015, 08:10 PM
lol @ this being a tough conference game. We have 3 losses this season, no one in the WCC, except for us is remotely close in talent level to any of those three. Who's ready to pull a Fonzie and admit that they were, "wrrr, wrrrr, wrrrr, wrooooong"?

FuManShoes
12-21-2015, 08:20 PM
lol @ this being a tough conference game. We have 3 losses this season, no one in the WCC, except for us is remotely close in talent level to any of those three. Who's ready to pull a Fonzie and admit that they were, "wrrr, wrrrr, wrrrr, wrooooong"?

What are we eating crow over? If worrying a bit and then beating a bad and hobbled team at home by 30 earns one a crow-witch, it's news to me (and the Zags). Were there people looking at this as a trap game? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. It's a league game - they are all trap games.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2015, 08:28 PM
What are we eating crow over? If worrying a bit and then beating a bad and hobbled team at home by 30 earns one a crow-witch, it's news to me (and the Zags). Were there people looking at this as a trap game? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. It's a league game - they are all trap games.

But that's my point, if we're on our "A" game there are no WCC trap games. Yes, many were saying that we could lose tonight, but they failed to recognize that our 3 losses were to teams that were head and shoulders better than any WCC team, save for us. I just think there was waaaaay to much Chicken Little mentality here without putting things in perspective and this game tonight was Exhibit A. Again, our leading scorer had 9, yes, 9 points and we won by almost 30.

Outraged
12-21-2015, 08:38 PM
I've been watching this series for some time and the crow is usually eaten when a 30 pt win evaporates to a two pt loss on the road. It may be Lmu this year it may be pepperdine.

All I got to say is crow does not make me hungry.

ProjectMKUltra5
12-21-2015, 08:54 PM
You'll be waiting a while. Crow doesn't get eaten around here, you can say whatever you want and hardly anybody is held accountable for what they say. You bump an old thread and everyone takes cover and hopes nobody notices their BS, it's comical.

willandi
12-21-2015, 09:13 PM
I think that the Zags tonight were the team that we fans thought they were going to be...minus Shem Karnowski.

We, the Zag faithful, BELIEVED that the guards would shoot 40-45% from three, that, as a team, we would be 75% on FT's and that our interior would be dominate. We saw that tonight. I think the crow is being eaten more by the nay-sayers...but that is just my opinion.

john montana
12-21-2015, 09:26 PM
One game at home...loved it! But I still see it as a step, not the end of the journey. Hopefully our guards can keep it up.

hooter73
12-21-2015, 09:31 PM
In the WCC talent level very rarely matters.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2015, 09:36 PM
I think that the Zags tonight were the team that we fans thought they were going to be...minus Shem Karnowski.

We, the Zag faithful, BELIEVED that the guards would shoot 40-45% from three, that, as a team, we would be 75% on FT's and that our interior would be dominate. We saw that tonight. I think the crow is being eaten more by the nay-sayers...but that is just my opinion.

We Zag fans thought that out pre season All American would score 9 points and win by almost 30?

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2015, 09:37 PM
In the WCC talent level very rarely matters.


It mattered tonight; a lot. Our leading scorer and preseason AA was invisible, scoring 9 points and we won by almost 30.

soccerdud
12-21-2015, 10:08 PM
pretty sure no one is eating any crow over one game where the team *finally* looked like the team they should be, against a decent-but-not-great opponent. if we carry this through the SMU game, maybe the knots in my stomach will finally go away. but the naysayers and worrywarts still have a LOT more data and evidence on their side than you do. imo you're WAY premature in your preening, "mission accomplished"-esque post.

seems to me the appropriate response to this game is, simply: "way to go, zags! you played a hell of a game. keep it up."

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2015, 10:18 PM
pretty sure no one is eating any crow over one game where the team *finally* looked like the team they should be, against a decent-but-not-great opponent. if we carry this through the SMU game, maybe the knots in my stomach will finally go away. but the naysayers and worrywarts still have a LOT more data and evidence on their side than you do. imo you're WAY premature in your preening, "mission accomplished"-esque post.

seems to me the appropriate response to this game is, simply: "way to go, zags! you played a hell of a game. keep it up."

Our leading scorer and preseason AA scored 9 points and was virtually non existent; and we won by almost 30. That's "how we should look"? My point is the chicken little club didn't look at the big picture, i.e our 3 losses are to teams that are superior to every team in our conference, excluding us.

soccerdud
12-21-2015, 10:32 PM
Our leading scorer and preseason AA scored 9 points and was virtually non existent; and we won by almost 30. That's "how we should look"? My point is the chicken little club didn't look at the big picture, i.e our 3 losses are to teams that are superior to every team in our conference, excluding us.

curious specifically which chicken little posts you're referring to. i haven't read them all. if there's anyone who thinks we won't be competitive for a conference championship, they are certifiably nutso. but anyone who thinks that a conference championship isn't a given is just being realistic imo. according to kenpom (the best there is for this comparison right now), smc is right there with UCLA (40th and 39th, respectively) and only a couple of percentage points behind TA&M. they certainly deserve more respect than you are giving them and will likely give us fits in a game or two (or three) this year. similarly, BYU is better than tenn, wazzu, and montana-- all of whom gave us WAY more than we wanted (and way more than i expected). i sincerely doubt we run the conference table this year, even with our profound advantages skill-wise, and a hot SMC or BYU could certainly knock us off at their place or in vegas. i really hope that doesn't happen, but we have no more won the WCC (or the autobid) at this point than we have lost it.

just cause the otherside is saying certifiably crazy stuff, doesn't mean you gotta meet or beat it. it's like you're trying to trump them or something. moderation, people.

Coach Crazy
12-21-2015, 11:12 PM
curious specifically which chicken little posts you're referring to. i haven't read them all. if there's anyone who thinks we won't be competitive for a conference championship, they are certifiably nutso. but anyone who thinks that a conference championship isn't a given is just being realistic imo. according to kenpom (the best there is for this comparison right now), smc is right there with UCLA (40th and 39th, respectively) and only a couple of percentage points behind TA&M. they certainly deserve more respect than you are giving them and will likely give us fits in a game or two (or three) this year. similarly, BYU is better than tenn, wazzu, and montana-- all of whom gave us WAY more than we wanted (and way more than i expected). i sincerely doubt we run the conference table this year, even with our profound advantages skill-wise, and a hot SMC or BYU could certainly knock us off at their place or in vegas. i really hope that doesn't happen, but we have no more won the WCC (or the autobid) at this point than we have lost it.

just cause the otherside is saying certifiably crazy stuff, doesn't mean you gotta meet or beat it. it's like you're trying to trump them or something. moderation, people.

I think if you go back and look at previous years, you're going to see that even in those games where we trounced people in this conference...we had a different way of winning than what we saw tonight.

The talent level disparity is starting to trend in a way that is going to make less and less of these games winnable for the rest of the conference. This conference schedule is going to allow a type of development you won't see in most conferences, for these guards. And as they get stronger, we're only going to pull away even more.

There has been a good deal of chicken little on this board about our conference play. But after the way things started, it will be too tempting to get it out of one's system, once it has taken root.

MDABE80
12-22-2015, 12:01 AM
gUARDS CONTINUE TO IMPROVE. tHEY'LL GET USED TO EACH OTHER AND THE GUARD PLAYERS AS A UNIT WILL PLAY EVEN BETTER. fEW'S DONE A NICE JOB WITHOUT kARNO...WHO WE'LL MISS THE REST OF THE WAY IN ....JUST A even IF HE RETURNED, HE STILL HAVE TO GET IN SHAPE...GAME SHAPE.
Sorry for the caps. Anyway , as a season wears on, I'm thinking this group of 8 will meld as a unit. Few fouls, TO's must always be watched but the structure will have to improve. Defense is key. Always is. If you watch a replay, Dranginis kept his man under control. Some were often left to wander. Josh needs to focus. Emac's better but mostly because he can recover with his speed.
All in all, I'd say this is the best we've played in several games.

soccerdud
12-22-2015, 12:02 AM
I think if you go back and look at previous years, you're going to see that even in those games where we trounced people in this conference...we had a different way of winning than what we saw tonight.

The talent level disparity is starting to trend in a way that is going to make less and less of these games winnable for the rest of the conference. This conference schedule is going to allow a type of development you won't see in most conferences, for these guards. And as they get stronger, we're only going to pull away even more.

There has been a good deal of chicken little on this board about our conference play. But after the way things started, it will be too tempting to get it out of one's system, once it has taken root.

is your memory really so bad? our superior talent still allowed montana within 3 at home, in a game where we trailed with <1 min left. they'd be competitive for 4-6th in the WCC. or the game against tennessee, who would probably be 4th in the WCC (currently behind us, SMC, and BYU according to kenpom), leading us in the 2nd half in a semi-home game. there exist, in the last two weeks, multiple counter-examples to the idea that games vs. gonzaga are not "winnable for the rest of the conference".

yes, we're far and away the most talented team. we are also among the least consistent. and THAT is the source of concern here. because when we're bad, we are REALLY bad. like 21-6 runs for average opponents (happened tonight between about 9:30 and 2:00 left in 1st half) or 26-7 (against tenn, 18:30-9:43 2nd half). if that happens against SMC or BYU (as it has happened against EVERY SINGLE TEAM we have played this year that is remotely comparable to them), we are in trouble.

yes, it never got that close tonight. but 1 comfortable, fairly consistent win, out of 9 attempts (that's how many games we've played vs. kenpom top 200 [in conference we'll have 7 more + tourney]) is an outlier. we can start congratulating ourselves once it becomes a trend. statistically and psychologically, we are nowhere near there yet.

this thread kinda seems like the poster equivalent of, say, silas missing 8 straight 3-pointers, then hitting the 9th and starting to trash talk: "boom! yo, betta watch out steph curry! all you haters who (apparently) said i would never make another can start eating crow." this may be the point we look back on and say we turned the corner-- or, at very least it could be a first step... but as of right now we are still exactly 1 of 9 in not letting decent teams back into the game after having a BIG lead. and that ain't much to "crow" about. yet.

in other words: "good job. now do it again."

WallaWallaZag
12-22-2015, 12:30 AM
some people are acting like one game is a trend...sss - small sample size

ZagsGoZags
12-22-2015, 01:12 AM
I hope this game is a watershed
emac, Josh, and even Silas are not only trying to get their turnovers down, but it showed tonight
If they can keep this up, while they continue responding to Few's coaching, we may be in late Feb where the optimistic fans had hoped.
For viewers of an HBO special a triumphant March, after the pre Conference soul-questioning losses, would be the best way to make viewers love it. Fans love stories of coming from a low place to achieve a high place. This was the first game that made me feel like the players were executing Few''s systems. This game 'looked like' a zag team to me.
Honestly, how many of us expected or commented at half time that we would watch the opponents catch up and close the gap in the second half? I know I did.
Go Zags

TexasZagFan
12-22-2015, 05:34 AM
You'll be waiting a while. Crow doesn't get eaten around here, you can say whatever you want and hardly anybody is held accountable for what they say. You bump an old thread and everyone takes cover and hopes nobody notices their BS, it's comical.

Damn, who pi$$ed in your corn flakes? IMO, it was the law of averages last night, nothing more.

jazzdelmar
12-22-2015, 05:51 AM
Damn, who pi$$ed in your corn flakes? IMO, it was the law of averages last night, nothing more.

I like the way you think (as well as your lexicon), TZF. Let's see 10 like that. Plus, we dropped down into the WCC comfy zone, BFD.

TexasZagFan
12-22-2015, 06:20 AM
I like the way you think (as well as your lexicon), TZF. Let's see 10 like that. Plus, we dropped down into the WCC comfy zone, BFD.

My "lexicon"? Auditors don't use words like that, at least the ones I work with. I'm surrounded by twenty-something college grads with alphabet soup after their names, and I'm constantly in hot water over seemingly innocuous comments that I make. One young lady, a GS-12 and a CPA, was really angry with me when I compared myself to Moby Dick (it was a conversation over the salads I bring to work, to keep my weight and blood sugar under control). She had never heard of the novel, and thought I was referring to my, ahem, package. True story.

In today's world, you don't see much in the way of lexicons, not when thoughts are limited to 140 characters.

Birddog
12-22-2015, 06:38 AM
I like the way you think (as well as your lexicon), TZF. Let's see 10 like that. Plus, we dropped down into the WCC comfy zone, BFD.

TZF drives a Lexicon? and to think I thought he was a Priapus sort of guy, coming from Texas and all.

TexasZagFan
12-22-2015, 07:04 AM
TZF drives a Lexicon? and to think I thought he was a Priapus sort of guy, coming from Texas and all.

My wife drives a brand new Murano...I got her 2007 Honda Civic, an upgrade from our 2001 Tahoe.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/2f/2f468ced8c30c429a8997316f580a4cb46cfe12aedac3f9385 0651117dd332e6.jpg

vandalzag
12-22-2015, 08:43 AM
I like the way you think (as well as your lexicon), TZF. Let's see 10 like that. Plus, we dropped down into the WCC comfy zone, BFD.

Of course you predicted the 30 point win and the guards hitting shooting well since it was a WCC game. How disappointed are you when GU plays well? Are you as upset as others become on this board when the team loses?

zagfan24
12-22-2015, 08:45 AM
It's easy as fans to overreact -- all of us are probably at fault, some just overreact more to wins, others to losses.

It's one of many things I admire and like about Coach Few. He's a big picture type and has shown the ability to play the long game. Perhaps this is to the detriment of his "in-game" adjustments, but IMO he doesn't make adjustment after adjustment after adjustment without taking time to see if things settle in. There's a reason they advise most people to only check on their investment portfolio's once in a while...you can't shift with the wind and expecto to end up with much long-term success. Clearly, with this years' team, the coaches know it will be a learning process and that there will be bumps along the way. You could tell from their comments before the season even started that they knew there would be some issues early on.

I also don't know if anybody needs to apologize for overreacting or stating that they think this team is really good, really bad, or somewhere in between, nor is it all that becoming to showboat on the occasions when you're right. We're all fans, we make predictions...sometimes we are right on, sometimes a bit off, sometimes we couldn't be further from the truth. It's still fun to make guesses, and over time it's fairly easy to pick out the posters who are more positive, more negative, more or less reactive, more "in the know", etc....and what makes reading this board fun is reading the opinions of all of those types. The p*ssing matches about who is right or not I could do without but that comes with the territory. The one thing we all have in common is that we realistically have no impact or bearing on the outcome.

Happy holidays, ya'll.

Ezag
12-22-2015, 09:04 AM
FINAL FOUR, FINAL FOUR, FINAL FOUR,

thespywhozaggedme
12-22-2015, 09:30 AM
it's either that or "we won't even make the tourney this year" around here. lol
FINAL FOUR, FINAL FOUR, FINAL FOUR,

Coach Crazy
12-22-2015, 09:35 AM
some people are acting like one game is a trend...sss - small sample size

One game is not a trend. Neither is the spread of games that people are using to justify the other opposing position.

CDC84
12-22-2015, 09:43 AM
I would be really surprised if pepperdine performs that badly in Malibu. I expect a much closer game. It's the nature of this team, and the nature of WCC road games.

I would also be really surprised if GU's guards shoot that well from 3 in upcoming games.

LongIslandZagFan
12-22-2015, 09:44 AM
it's either that or "we won't even make the tourney this year" around here. lol

Will be happy to make the tourney...after that I will re-assess.

Coach Crazy
12-22-2015, 09:46 AM
is your memory really so bad? our superior talent still allowed montana within 3 at home, in a game where we trailed with <1 min left. they'd be competitive for 4-6th in the WCC. or the game against tennessee, who would probably be 4th in the WCC (currently behind us, SMC, and BYU according to kenpom), leading us in the 2nd half in a semi-home game. there exist, in the last two weeks, multiple counter-examples to the idea that games vs. gonzaga are not "winnable for the rest of the conference".

yes, we're far and away the most talented team. we are also among the least consistent. and THAT is the source of concern here. because when we're bad, we are REALLY bad. like 21-6 runs for average opponents (happened tonight between about 9:30 and 2:00 left in 1st half) or 26-7 (against tenn, 18:30-9:43 2nd half). if that happens against SMC or BYU (as it has happened against EVERY SINGLE TEAM we have played this year that is remotely comparable to them), we are in trouble.

yes, it never got that close tonight. but 1 comfortable, fairly consistent win, out of 9 attempts (that's how many games we've played vs. kenpom top 200 [in conference we'll have 7 more + tourney]) is an outlier. we can start congratulating ourselves once it becomes a trend. statistically and psychologically, we are nowhere near there yet.

this thread kinda seems like the poster equivalent of, say, silas missing 8 straight 3-pointers, then hitting the 9th and starting to trash talk: "boom! yo, betta watch out steph curry! all you haters who (apparently) said i would never make another can start eating crow." this may be the point we look back on and say we turned the corner-- or, at very least it could be a first step... but as of right now we are still exactly 1 of 9 in not letting decent teams back into the game after having a BIG lead. and that ain't much to "crow" about. yet.

in other words: "good job. now do it again."

If you are going to be all about a real sample size, then it's best not to even show concern, because we've only played one conference game, and we know that conference play is different. What we do have a strong trend of is, again, the talent disparity. I don't see this team having inconsistency issues for the same reasons that other teams might have, in the past. The development of statistical production and confidence in their role within the system is going to be the one thing that may provide for some hiccups.

If that gets fixed relatively early on (or at least a significant portion of it), you'll see 15-30 point victories every game from there on out. Yes, outliers are possible against even the best...but just as a small sample size does not trump a large one, an outlier should not have control over the probability of success.

This thread is saying what you are representing it to be. This thread, if anything is showing that the irrationality of concern does not deserve more credence if it cannot afford the same standard to the antithesis. It refusing to, so it should not...

Again, go back to previous iterations of this team, pull up the blowouts and tell me how they won. You won't see very many like last night. Could last night be an exception? Sure, but from the talent we know these kids have, it's hard not to see some real deal in it.

vandalzag
12-22-2015, 09:58 AM
I would be really surprised if pepperdine performs that badly in Malibu. I expect a much closer game. It's the nature of this team, and the nature of WCC road games.

I would also be really surprised if GU's guards shoot that well from 3 in upcoming games.

The one positive to take away is that the boys were able to put points on the board without KW. Granted everybody will not shoot like that every night, but it is nice to see them look both aggressive and confident. If someone would have predicted before the game the KW would be in single digits the consensus on this board would have been a double digit loss for GU. This is when things can get fixed and if everybody else stays healthy the boys should be in pretty good shape come March.

MDABE80
12-22-2015, 09:59 AM
61.5% from 3 last night. HArd to duplicate that.....moreso since the highest on record for any GU team.
I'm expecting this team to have it's ups and downs. SOme superior games and some dogs. It's the nature of things when a new team is on the court...not ALL new faces but a new team. Karno meant SO much and now the bigs don't behave like last year. They just can't.
New out front. as well.
It's not just a dropout and we go one with the same guys we knew. In many ways, we have a whole new "team". In some ways, I'm surprised we're only 12 pts away from perfect in W-L.
The mechancis of how this team operates don't look so good in some games, while in other games, they'll be sensastional. SO it goes when the team is being redone.

Coach Crazy
12-22-2015, 10:07 AM
61.5% from 3 last night. HArd to duplicate that.....moreso since the highest on record for any GU team.
I'm expecting this team to have it's ups and downs. SOme superior games and some dogs. It's the nature of things when a new team is on the court...not ALL new faces but a new team. Karno meant SO much and now the bigs don't behave like last year. They just can't.
New out front. as well.
It's not just a dropout and we go one with the same guys we knew. In many ways, we have a whole new "team". In some ways, I'm surprised we're only 12 pts away from perfect in W-L.
The mechancis of how this team operates don't look so good in some games, while in other games, they'll be sensastional. SO it goes when the team is being redone.

Hard to duplicate that kind of shooting, but not so difficult to duplicate the looks they were getting. They passed and worked well in space, they created space, and even with the hiccups and lags they had, they laid the wood.

maynard g krebs
12-22-2015, 02:51 PM
My "lexicon"? Auditors don't use words like that, at least the ones I work with. I'm surrounded by twenty-something college grads with alphabet soup after their names, and I'm constantly in hot water over seemingly innocuous comments that I make. One young lady, a GS-12 and a CPA, was really angry with me when I compared myself to Moby Dick (it was a conversation over the salads I bring to work, to keep my weight and blood sugar under control). She had never heard of the novel, and thought I was referring to my, ahem, package. True story.

In today's world, you don't see much in the way of lexicons, not when thoughts are limited to 140 characters.

Christopher Walken in Wedding Crashers: " He thinks Moby Dick is a venereal disease", or something like that.

scott257
12-22-2015, 03:09 PM
My "lexicon"? Auditors don't use words like that, at least the ones I work with. I'm surrounded by twenty-something college grads with alphabet soup after their names, and I'm constantly in hot water over seemingly innocuous comments that I make. One young lady, a GS-12 and a CPA, was really angry with me when I compared myself to Moby Dick (it was a conversation over the salads I bring to work, to keep my weight and blood sugar under control). She had never heard of the novel, and thought I was referring to my, ahem, package. True story.

In today's world, you don't see much in the way of lexicons, not when thoughts are limited to 140 characters.

I can definitely relate. We may need to meet and watch a game together as fellow Feds and Zag fans.

Zagger
12-22-2015, 04:10 PM
SSS yes. Nice to see what the team can do - at home. Still concerned about letting substantial leads slipping away. Glad we have another game at home tomorrow before a WCC road game. It'll give us a peek at how consistent the team can be - considering 2 games back to back in WCC play. The 3s were great but what I really liked was low turnovers and good FT shooting. We can't expect 3s to drop that well every game. I'd love to expect low TOs though. We gave the ball away too much in our losses. Hard to score when the opponent has the ball.